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View Full Version : (Update) Denied when went to pick up my firearm?


novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:10 PM
If this is is the wrong spot feel free to move it.I went to pick up my new RIA 1911.The one from the other thread.I was told I was denied.The paper I got says DMV Reject-Invalid Identification.Now the only thing I can think of is this due to the ticket I got on the way home?Or could it be that my DL expires on 11/27/2010? Also the paper says it needs to be reDROS once this is straightened out.So there goes another $35 down the drain.I wish I had called to see if everything was kosher before I drove all the way there.

383green
10-24-2010, 12:19 PM
Hmm, I don't think that a new ticket or a license expiration a month in the future should cause this denial. I'd expect that only if your license was suspended or already expired. Maybe you should call Jason Davis and have him 'splain some things to DOJ?

Rossi357
10-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Sounds like they put the wrong DL number on the app. I don't think traffic tickets exempt you from owning.

RP1911
10-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Check the DROS paperwork for mistakes if it was manually entered.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:26 PM
I have the paper work.It's correct on there.I buy guns every once in awhile.This has never happened.

383green
10-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Sounds like they put the wrong DL number on the app. I don't think traffic tickets exempt you from owning.

If the FFL put the wrong DL on the DROS, then I think it would be reasonable to ask them to eat the cost of the re-DROS. OP, did the FFL swipe your DL through a DOJ-supplied computer, or enter it manually?

Edited to add: Never mind; I didn't see the OP's previous post before I hit "send".

OleCuss
10-24-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm with Rossi357. It sounds like there was an error.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:29 PM
I wasn't paying attention.I was chatting with a fellow calgunner whom I purchased the gun from.

G17GUY
10-24-2010, 12:32 PM
gun shop owes you a DROS

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:32 PM
All I can do is call the number tomorrow.I have drosed another 1911 in the week.I hope this ssame thing doesn't happen.

Rossi357
10-24-2010, 12:33 PM
Invalid ID means the number didn't hit on the DMV data base. It was a number that doesn't exist.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:34 PM
Maybe it's cause I lied about my weight? I put that I was 20lb's less.I didn't think it was a big deal!

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:35 PM
Invalid ID means the number didn't hit on the DMV data base. It was a number that doesn't exist.

But it's correct on the DROS print out they gave me.

jtmkinsd
10-24-2010, 12:41 PM
But it's correct on the DROS print out they gave me.

Just call the number for DOJ...they'll tell you exactly what was wrong...everything else is speculation...when you get it cleared up...you should only be charged a DROS fee ($25) when re-DROSing.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:44 PM
If that was the problem, no woman would EVER own a gun in this country :).

HAHAHA! Yeah you are right.

Matt C
10-24-2010, 12:46 PM
Just call the number for DOJ...they'll tell you exactly what was wrong...everything else is speculation...when you get it cleared up...you should only be charged a DROS fee ($25) when re-DROSing.

This.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 12:54 PM
Just call the number for DOJ...they'll tell you exactly what was wrong...everything else is speculation...when you get it cleared up...you should only be charged a DROS fee ($25) when re-DROSing.

Why should I be charged again at all when it wasn't my error? Why should I have to wait another 10 days?

dirtyJ
10-24-2010, 12:57 PM
If it was the shop's error, they should cover the DROS. If it was the DOJ's error, the shop is under no obligation to cover anything, although they should have called and told you about the rejection before you showed up, that's just lame.

Window_Seat
10-24-2010, 1:07 PM
Since noone has stated it here...

"800-556-2109"

If ever I was denied for anything in the way of a FA purchase, or other issues involving FAs & rights, that would be the first number I call... And the other responses above are good as well.

Erik.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 1:12 PM
Since noone has stated it here...

"800-556-2109"

If ever I was denied for anything in the way of a FA purchase, or other issues involving FAs & rights, that would be the first number I call... And the other responses above are good as well.

Erik.

I have 916-227-3680 Steve Buford for Edmundo G. Brown Jr.

dieselpower
10-24-2010, 1:27 PM
If DoJ or DMV made a mistake, you have to pay the fee again. the shop may not charge you for CS issues, but I would offer evn if they did.

Yes you have to wait again. IIRC the background check was not done in your case, so the ten days has to start over again.

hoffmang
10-24-2010, 1:31 PM
Call DOJ first. If there is a real problem you can either call CGF or just call Jason Davis directly (since you're down in SoCal.)

Calling the CGF hotline is just going to leave the CGF board a voicemail about something we've already read about here. :D

-Gene

jtmkinsd
10-24-2010, 1:32 PM
You're assuming the FFL did something wrong...and you said the license number on your DROS is correct...I can tell you the number is all that matters...on the DROS submition site, I can enter you have blue hair, weigh 500 pounds, and live in the White House and your DROS will come back approved...as long as your license number is correct, current, and you don't have any warrants, owe the DMV money, or some other inane thing...SO, call the number and find out why you were denied.

swissarmyca
10-24-2010, 2:21 PM
Call the DOJ for an explanation. If it was a mistake on their part, you can re-dros and they will waive the re-dros fee. You will still have to wait the additional 10 days. I am talking from experience. Good luck. YMMV on waiving the re-dros fee.

GOEX FFF
10-24-2010, 2:35 PM
All I can do is call the number tomorrow.I have drosed another 1911 in the week.I hope this ssame thing doesn't happen.

^^ This just leaves me to ask a question.
Are you trying to buy/DROS more than 1 pistol in a 30 day period?

This COULD be the reason one was denied.

jtmkinsd
10-24-2010, 2:38 PM
^^ This just leaves me to ask a question.
Are you trying to buy/DROS more than 1 pistol in a 30 day period?

This COULD be the reason one was denied.

He earlier stated "35 bucks" for transfer...so PPT...also, the denial from DOJ for 30 day violations comes back with "30 day violation" right on the letter. :D

Rossi357
10-24-2010, 2:41 PM
According to his original post, it was a DMV invalid denial.

GOEX FFF
10-24-2010, 2:42 PM
He earlier stated "35 bucks" for transfer...so PPT...also, the denial from DOJ for 30 day violations comes back with "30 day violation" right on the letter. :D

rgr, copy that.

Just had to ask, DOJ has been known to get things mixed up... hence Cowboy44's denial post. :)

Anchors
10-24-2010, 3:33 PM
I want to hear how this unfolds.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 4:46 PM
I want to hear how this unfolds.

I will keep you posted.

DisgruntledReaper
10-24-2010, 6:13 PM
good luck, the dmv is a effed up dept.....

HowardW56
10-24-2010, 6:20 PM
If this is is the wrong spot feel free to move it.I went to pick up my new RIA 1911.The one from the other thread.I was told I was denied.The paper I got says DMV Reject-Invalid Identification.Now the only thing I can think of is this due to the ticket I got on the way home?Or could it be that my DL expires on 11/27/2010? Also the paper says it needs to be reDROS once this is straightened out.So there goes another $35 down the drain.I wish I had called to see if everything was kosher before I drove all the way there.

What was your pick up date?
Have you called DOJ yet, to find out why it was denied?
I have been told that iF the 30 days hasn't lapsed from the date of the original DROS date, they can release the gun if it was an error...


You first move should be to call DOJ and find out why?

Sajedene
10-24-2010, 6:45 PM
Sounds like they put the wrong DL number on the app. I don't think traffic tickets exempt you from owning.

I was told that it can and so does non-payment of child support. Is that true or no?

But I'm with everyone - call ASAP. Might be clerical error and hopefully it is something that can be remedied fast. I know waiting past the jail time sucks.

Good luck!

BigDogatPlay
10-24-2010, 6:56 PM
I was told that it can and so does non-payment of child support. Is that true or no?

Unpaid traffic and parking violations that have been reported to DMV absolutely will deny a DROS. Any warrant, for unpaid support or whatever, reported to DMV will also deny a DROS.

If there is a warrant, even for a misdemeanor, the subject of the warrant is considered a fugitive from justice.

Rossi357
10-24-2010, 6:58 PM
If this is is the wrong spot feel free to move it.I went to pick up my new RIA 1911.The one from the other thread.I was told I was denied.The paper I got says DMV Reject-Invalid Identification.Now the only thing I can think of is this due to the ticket I got on the way home?Or could it be that my DL expires on 11/27/2010? Also the paper says it needs to be reDROS once this is straightened out.So there goes another $35 down the drain.I wish I had called to see if everything was kosher before I drove all the way there.

Read the red. It's a mix up on the DMV info.

novabrian
10-24-2010, 7:04 PM
I was told that it can and so does non-payment of child support. Is that true or no?

But I'm with everyone - call ASAP. Might be clerical error and hopefully it is something that can be remedied fast. I know waiting past the jail time sucks.

Good luck!

My pick up day was Sat. I was busy so I went today.That is when they told me the bad news.Obviously the DOJ isn't opened on the weekend.I will cal ASAP first thing in the morning.
I don't have kids to pay or miss child support.My DL doesn't expire for over a month.That ticket I got was only 10 days ago.So I hope this gets cleared up ASAP and without a lot of headache and more money.

shark92651
10-24-2010, 7:35 PM
In our experience we have never had a denial that was then cleared by the DOJ and allowed to release the firearm without a re-DROS. We often get notified of a delay, and then authorized to release the firearm, however, but never after a denial. I'm not saying it never happens, just that we haven't see it.

The suggestions that the FFL should eat the $25 re-DROS fee, should it be necessary, is laughable - UNLESS it was a mistake by the FFL. The dealer makes nothing on a PPT, the $10 max-allowed fee for dealing with the paperwork, disposition log, firearm storage, etc... doesn't even cover the costs involved for most FFL's and to suggest the FFL should then kick in $25 to cover a mistake at the DOJ or DMV? Puh-leese... I do agree though that that would be awesome customer service :D

We eat the cost of re-DROS occasionally, you do enough of them and it's inevitable. If we make a mistake and catch it 5 seconds after the DROS transmittal, even if we cancel it immediately, we still are out the $25. We have done more than one PPT which ended up COSTING us a lot more than the meager $10 we collect. This is why it is so important to train our guys to really understand the system and make sure the data is correct before they hit that Submit button. Unfortunately, if a re-DROS is necessary they are going to want another $25 - their mistake or not. Can you imagine a private sector business getting away with that?

J-cat
10-24-2010, 7:45 PM
DOJ can waive the fee if it's their mistake.

gimme
10-24-2010, 7:45 PM
^^ This just leaves me to ask a question.
Are you trying to buy/DROS more than 1 pistol in a 30 day period?

This COULD be the reason one was denied.

that was my thought when I saw the line about dros'ing another 1911 in the same week?

novabrian
10-24-2010, 8:03 PM
that was my thought when I saw the line about dros'ing another 1911 in the same week?

They are both PPT.

dantodd
10-24-2010, 8:21 PM
Hopefully you will go down and get a CA ID card from DMV next week. Those don't have problems with traffic tickets, suspensions etc. Just don't let it expire.

AIMSMALL
10-24-2010, 8:28 PM
Sorry to hear about that one Brian, I'm sure you'll get it all straightened out tomorrow.

Dr.Lou
10-24-2010, 10:06 PM
Dantodd, you can't Legally possess a Ca license and ID at the same time. Moreover, if you lost your license and obtained an ID card, it would have the same number and information attached to it.

SVT-40
10-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Dantodd, you can't Legally possess a Ca license and ID at the same time. Moreover, if you lost your license and obtained an ID card, it would have the same number and information attached to it.

It's perfectly legal to have both a valid CA drivers license and CA ID card. It's not legal to have more than one valid drivers license.

Yes, both DL's and ID's do have the same number. But that's not relevant as the number just links to your name. If you "run" someone through the DMV computer who has both a DL and a ID. It just shows the same information and notes "ID card issued" in addition to all the other personal information.

Even if you never had a drivers license or ID card you can still have a "index number" assigned to you. It usually starts with a "X". Usually it's used for folks who get cited or arrested for driving without a license (as in never had one).

dantodd
10-24-2010, 10:23 PM
Dantodd, you can't Legally possess a Ca license and ID at the same time. Moreover, if you lost your license and obtained an ID card, it would have the same number and information attached to it.

They do have the same number and I got my ID card at the same time I last renewed my DL. The person at the counter processed both pieces of paper with no problem. They were both mailed with no problem.

novabrian
10-25-2010, 9:25 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 9:29 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!

I have received notices from DMV when my insurance lapsed, change in carriers, not that I would go uninsured. One call to my insurance broker, and the problem was fixed.

I believe, all auto insurance companies are required to notify DMV of policy status now. It was commercial auto policies only for a few years.


note: If you had, and had used, a California ID card in place of your drivers license, it wouldn't have been an issue...

halifax
10-25-2010, 9:33 AM
Another good reason to use a CA ID instead?

CSDGuy
10-25-2010, 9:39 AM
Your CA ID number is the same as your CA DL number. Chances are you'd still be denied if your DL is suspended and you used an unexpired CA ID instead of a DL. I've heard of such denials on THIS forum in the past.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 9:46 AM
Your CA ID number is the same as your CA DL number. Chances are you'd still be denied if your DL is suspended and you used an unexpired CA ID instead of a DL. I've heard of such denials on THIS forum in the past.


Check the DROS form, there is a box that would either indicate "CDL" or "CID". A suspended drivers license does not invalidate the associated identification card.

CSDGuy
10-25-2010, 9:50 AM
I know that check box is there. That still wouldn't necessarily stop the DoJ from denying a transfer/purchase of a firearm... legal or not. I don't necessarily trust the DoJ BoF... It seems that sometimes you must kick them a bit to get them to act appropriately.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 9:59 AM
... I don't necessarily trust the DoJ BoF...

Thats obvious....

:TFH:

jtmkinsd
10-25-2010, 10:24 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!

It doesn't matter if you use ID or DL...he still would've been denied...my advice is to stop buying guns and get some insurance :D

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 10:34 AM
It doesn't matter if you use ID or DL...he still would've been denied...my advice is to stop buying guns and get some insurance :D


Good idea....

Stonewalker
10-25-2010, 10:44 AM
Hm... I'm interested to see what Gene or Gray think about this. Does a suspended DL not count as valid ID? If it does, then what business does the DOJ have in your relationship with the DMV?

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 10:47 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!


Sounds like a lawsuit brewing. Denial of 2A fundamental rights due to lack of car ins. Gonna be hard to make that one pass constitutional muster.

Always kills me when a CDL is considered "invalid ID" when it's suspended. Suspended should just mean I'm not eligible to drive. Doesn't mean my identity has suddenly changed. Or I love it when a bar wont let you in or you can't buy a drink cuz your CDL is expired. Tha should just mean I can't drive, it should still be valid as ID and for age verification.

Paul S
10-25-2010, 10:52 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!

Seems the solution will be fairly simple then..though perhaps somewhat bureaucratic in nature. A visit to DMV with proof of insurance in hand should solve that problem. Then wait a day or two and contact DOJ again...then re-DROS...(bummer but doable.)
It would seem the problem lies at DMV's door step.
Best of luck.

PaperPuncher
10-25-2010, 10:53 AM
They said my DL is suspended because my Ins. had expired.That is complete BS!

Since when does your DL get suspended for not having insurance? What if you do not own a car?

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 10:53 AM
Sounds like a lawsuit brewing. Denial of 2A fundamental rights due to lack of car ins. Gonna be hard to make that one pass constitutional muster.

Always kills me when a CDL is considered "invalid ID" when it's suspended. Suspended should just mean I'm not eligible to drive. Doesn't mean my identity has suddenly changed. Or I love it when a bar wont let you in or you can't buy a drink cuz your CDL is expired. Tha should just mean I can't drive, it should still be valid as ID and for age verification.

If it is expired or suspended, it's invalid for all purposes.

I'd like to know if the OP was actually driving with no insurance and a suspended drivers license. If he has been, he's lucky that he wasn't stopped and his vehicle impounded with a 30 day hold.

He doesn't need a gun, he needs to get his act together...

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 10:56 AM
If it is expired or suspended, it's invalid for all purposes.

I'd like to know if the OP was actually driving with no insurance and a suspended drivers license. If he has been, he's lucky that he wasn't stopped and his vehicle impounded with a 30 day hold.

He doesn't need a gun, he needs to get his act together...

Or it could be that his Ins. didn't properly update DMV when he renewed his policy.

I still think an expired/suspended drivers should be valid for ID purposes. I understand that it is not that way currently......but I think it's also stupid.

rodeoflyer
10-25-2010, 10:56 AM
Since when does your DL get suspended for not having insurance? What if you do not own a car?

The insurance companies are required to notify DMV when your insurance lapses. If you don't own a car there is no insurance to report.

jtmkinsd
10-25-2010, 10:58 AM
Since when does your DL get suspended for not having insurance? What if you do not own a car?

You're required to fill out a State form if you get rid of a car...hence the State would know you don't have it. It takes a while (upwards of six months) for DMV to catch up to you if you've been driving without insurance. They will send several notices warning of the pending suspension if you don't get insurance. Frankly...it's a little disturbing to think of someone driving around and not having insurance...but having the money to buy some toys. (I'm not implying the OP was doing this...for all I know he borrowed a car to carry out the transaction :rolleyes:)

rodeoflyer
10-25-2010, 10:59 AM
If it is expired or suspended, it's invalid for all purposes.

I'd like to know if the OP was actually driving with no insurance and a suspended drivers license. If he has been, he's lucky that he wasn't stopped and his vehicle impounded with a 30 day hold.

He doesn't need a gun, he needs to get his act together...

That's unfair and harsh without all the details.

The DMV makes mistakes all the time. I went through the same insurance issue with the DMV, when mine was in fact PAID. I switched carriers, and my old carrier immediately let the DMV know before my new one was filed.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 11:04 AM
That's unfair and harsh without all the details.

The DMV makes mistakes all the time. I went through the same insurance issue with the DMV, when mine was in fact PAID. I switched carriers, and my old carrier immediately let the DMV know before my new one was filed.

I received a notice from DMV under the same circumstances, my insurance broker was able to resolve it within hours...

The broker forwarded a DMV printout showing the sequence of events. Yes someone didn't input a new policy, but that was resolved quickly and painlessly. The insurance industry has access to sections within DMV that the public does not.

There are screw ups all the time, in both public & private sector. If you take care of things in a timely manner, it doesn't get out of hand.

BroncoBob
10-25-2010, 11:11 AM
Sounds like they put the wrong DL number on the app. I don't think traffic tickets exempt you from owning.

This

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:14 AM
I received a notice from DMV under the same circumstances, my insurance broker was able to resolve it within hours...

The broker forwarded a DMV printout showing the sequence of events. Yes someone didn't input a new policy, but that was resolved quickly and painlessly. The insurance industry has access to sections within DMV that the public does not.

There are screw ups all the time, in both public & private sector. If you take care of things in a timely manner, it doesn't get out of hand.

That being the case I think it is unfair/unethical/wrong whatever for DMV to suspend someone's license w/o telling them of the issue first and giving them a reasonable amount of time to rectify the issue. Especially since license suspensions can have other far reaching impacts for people. You can't hold people personally responsible for the internal screw-ups of depts and entities they have no access too.

dantodd
10-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Hm... I'm interested to see what Gene or Gray think about this. Does a suspended DL not count as valid ID? If it does, then what business does the DOJ have in your relationship with the DMV?

DLs are not valid ID when expired or suspended. CA IDs are still valid ID. If someone gets denied using CA ID because of an DL suspension that's a problem. Hopefully if someone REALLY had that problem they would get in touch with someone at CGF or one of the good 2A attorneys that we have here.

dieselpower
10-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Or it could be that his Ins. didn't properly update DMV when he renewed his policy.

I still think an expired/suspended drivers should be valid for ID purposes. I understand that it is not that way currently......but I think it's also stupid.


Yes, the information on the card is correct, therefore its a valid form of identification. Its expired so it is an invalid license to operate a motor vehicle.

This has been a fight at the bar room door and cashier counter since the dawn of time.

The reason behind this is there is no way for AUTHORITIES to check the validity of an expired license. If I hand LEO an expired DL he has no independent verification of the information and no way to prove its correct. Because our laws are lazy, this logic is transferred to other areas surrounding DLs...like buying tobacco and alcohol. A Bouncer or Cashier has no way to check the validity of an ID anyway.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 11:27 AM
That being the case I think it is unfair/unethical/wrong whatever for DMV to suspend someone's license w/o telling them of the issue first and giving them a reasonable amount of time to rectify the issue. Especially since license suspensions can have other far reaching impacts for people. You can't hold people personally responsible for the internal screw-ups of depts and entities they have no access too.

They send a 30 day notice... Isn't 30 days enough?

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:29 AM
They send a 30 day notice... Isn't 30 days enough?

Well obviously the OP didn't get his.

Meplat
10-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Hm... I'm interested to see what Gene or Gray think about this. Does a suspended DL not count as valid ID? If it does, then what business does the DOJ have in your relationship with the DMV?

Just wait until the state takes over medical care and they refuse to set your broken arm at the emergency room because you are late filing your taxes.:D

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:30 AM
Yes, the information on the card is correct, therefore its a valid form of identification. Its expired so it is an invalid license to operate a motor vehicle.

This has been a fight at the bar room door and cashier counter since the dawn of time.

The reason behind this is there is no way for AUTHORITIES to check the validity of an expired license. If I hand LEO an expired DL he has no independent verification of the information and no way to prove its correct. Because our laws are lazy, this logic is transferred to other areas surrounding DLs...like buying tobacco and alcohol. A Bouncer or Cashier has no way to check the validity of an ID anyway.


How so? Just because its expired doesn't mean you're not still in the system. Why would a LEO still not be able to run your ID just like a non-expired one?

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 11:32 AM
Well obviously the OP didn't get his.

Or ignored it...

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 11:34 AM
How so? Just because its expired doesn't mean you're not still in the system. Why would a LEO still not be able to run your ID just like a non-expired one?

Sure they can, that is when the car gets arrested, and the driver gets cited for driving on a suspended license....

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:36 AM
Or ignored it...

Well anything is possible. But since the OP seemed suprised to find out what the reason for his denial was I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't have some prior knowledge that this was coming. Stuff does get lost in the mail all the time.

If he did know and ignored it....well he needs to get his act together and buying more guns shouldn't be his first priority.

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:39 AM
Sure they can, that is when the car gets arrested, and the driver gets cited for driving on a suspended license....

That's my point. or its being made to sound like if I was stopped while walking down the street for whatever...and the LEO asked to see my ID and I handed him an expired DL, that he'd look at it like I just handed him a Taco Bell coupon and he says "This is expired, it doesn't prove to me who you are."

dantodd
10-25-2010, 11:45 AM
That's my point. or its being made to sound like if I was stopped while walking down the street for whatever...and the LEO asked to see my ID and I handed him an expired DL, that he'd look at it like I just handed him a Taco Bell coupon and he says "This is expired, it doesn't prove to me who you are."

expired license is not valid ID, it might still be accurate ID, just not valid ID.

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 11:50 AM
expired license is not valid ID, it might still be accurate ID, just not valid ID.

That's my point...."invalid" for what? Invalid for driving a vehicle on a public road. The identity and age info show has no changed, it still proves why I am and my age.

What is the drifference between a CDL and a CID? One proves who you are AND permits you to drive a vehicle on a public street. The other just proves who you are.

So why should a card that proves who you are, but has expired for the purposes of driving a vehicle be any different then the card that just proves who you are?

I know AZ ID cardshave no expiration date on them? Why should they? It's not like ones identity has an expiration date on it.

PaperPuncher
10-25-2010, 12:10 PM
You're required to fill out a State form if you get rid of a car...hence the State would know you don't have it. It takes a while (upwards of six months) for DMV to catch up to you if you've been driving without insurance. They will send several notices warning of the pending suspension if you don't get insurance. Frankly...it's a little disturbing to think of someone driving around and not having insurance...but having the money to buy some toys. (I'm not implying the OP was doing this...for all I know he borrowed a car to carry out the transaction :rolleyes:)

Still doesn't make any sense. What if the OP has two cars and couldn't afford to insure one but insured the other? This still gets someone a suspended license? What if you drive your grandmother around, only need a license and have no need for insurance of your own?

I thought you could not register a vehicle in your name without insurance but this is the first I have heard of a suspended license for lapse in insurance. I guess I am a bit behind on this one. Gonna have to pick up a handbook next time I am at the DMV. Damn.

Glock22Fan
10-25-2010, 12:26 PM
You're required to fill out a State form if you get rid of a car...hence the State would know you don't have it. It takes a while (upwards of six months) for DMV to catch up to you if you've been driving without insurance. They will send several notices warning of the pending suspension if you don't get insurance. Frankly...it's a little disturbing to think of someone driving around and not having insurance...but having the money to buy some toys. (I'm not implying the OP was doing this...for all I know he borrowed a car to carry out the transaction :rolleyes:)

And why should you not be driving your girlfriend's father's car, maybe borrowed for the day? Then surely it would be covered by the father's insurance. Or maybe a rental car?

novabrian
10-25-2010, 12:26 PM
It doesn't matter if you use ID or DL...he still would've been denied...my advice is to stop buying guns and get some insurance :D

Ok latest update.I called the ins. company and they said the problem was they never filled an SR22 when I got insurance with them in July after switching from there sister co. Infinity.The guy on the phone said he will file it right away but it will take 48hr.s for the DMV to get it electronically.Or I should have a hard copy within 5 days,however I should be able to just take my declaration page of my policy and get it straightened out.After sitting in the Westminster DMV for 2 hours the lady told me that I cannot use that.I need to have the actual paper or the need it.
So now I need to call Turners for the other 1911 I ppt and see if there was a problem with that one as well.I have bought a gun since July so I don't know why all of a sudden there is a problem.Why did the cop not tell me this when she wrote me a ticket last week?

Brianguy
10-25-2010, 12:30 PM
That's my point...."invalid" for what? Invalid for driving a vehicle on a public road. The identity and age info show has no changed, it still proves why I am and my age.

What is the drifference between a CDL and a CID? One proves who you are AND permits you to drive a vehicle on a public street. The other just proves who you are.

So why should a card that proves who you are, but has expired for the purposes of driving a vehicle be any different then the card that just proves who you are?

I know AZ ID cardshave no expiration date on them? Why should they? It's not like ones identity has an expiration date on it.

The state wants your money from license renewal.

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
The state wants your money for license renewal.

Yep....hence my reference earlier to a civil rights lawsuit over denial of a fundamental right as a means to strong arm someone for money over a non-related issue.

What next.....suspend your voter registration because of back taxes, or unpaid trash collection fees?

Glock22Fan
10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
I still think that this is B.S. What about the people in places like S.F. who don't even own a car but keep a license so that they can rent a car for vacations?

What about the person whose car is laid up on bricks in the back yard, waiting for them to get around to fixing it (I know there are still vehicle taxes to pay, but do they need insurance too?)

Brianguy
10-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I still think that this is B.S. What about the people in places like S.F. who don't even own a car but keep a license so that they can rent a car for vacations?

What about the person whose car is laid up on bricks in the back yard, waiting for them to get around to fixing it (I know there are still vehicle taxes to pay, but do they need insurance too?)

You can register a vehicle non operational with DMV. You still have to pay a fee:rolleyes: but its only $15 I think.

Deucer
10-25-2010, 12:39 PM
This is disturbing. I let the insurance laps on one of my motorcycles because I never ride it. It's still registered. My other two cars and motorcycle have insurance. I had no idea that could result in a suspended license. I also may not be able to DROS a gun right now? What a scam.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 12:59 PM
Still doesn't make any sense. What if the OP has two cars and couldn't afford to insure one but insured the other? This still gets someone a suspended license? What if you drive your grandmother around, only need a license and have no need for insurance of your own?

I thought you could not register a vehicle in your name without insurance but this is the first I have heard of a suspended license for lapse in insurance. I guess I am a bit behind on this one. Gonna have to pick up a handbook next time I am at the DMV. Damn.

When I received the form about a lapse in insurance, it gave me the option to change the registration status to non-operative. If it's parked (off of the highway, you don't need to insure it. I've been told that If you get caught driving a non-op vehicle on the highway, the fines are stiff...

novabrian
10-25-2010, 1:01 PM
If anyone is at fault here it's AAA! There are the one responsible for filling the SR22.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 1:09 PM
If anyone is at fault here it's AAA! There are the one responsible for filling the SR22.

Unless the OP didn't pay the premium....

ETD1010
10-25-2010, 1:09 PM
That's my point...."invalid" for what? Invalid for driving a vehicle on a public road. The identity and age info show has no changed, it still proves why I am and my age.

What is the drifference between a CDL and a CID? One proves who you are AND permits you to drive a vehicle on a public street. The other just proves who you are.

So why should a card that proves who you are, but has expired for the purposes of driving a vehicle be any different then the card that just proves who you are?

I know AZ ID cardshave no expiration date on them? Why should they? It's not like ones identity has an expiration date on it.

It doesn't matter to DMV or a cop. An invalid DL or ID is just that: Invalid. Even if it's your picture, and everything is accurate, and it's expired, it's invalid. A suspended DL is just that: suspended, therefore invalid, even for ID purposes. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it works. Same thing for car registrations, and such. If it's expired, even if it has your current address, it is invalid and un-usable.

stitchnicklas
10-25-2010, 1:11 PM
make AAA compensate you for the lost dros fee's,they are responsible.

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 1:13 PM
It doesn't matter to DMV or a cop. An invalid DL or ID is just that: Invalid. Even if it's your picture, and everything is accurate, and it's expired, it's invalid. A suspended DL is just that: suspended, therefore invalid, even for ID purposes. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it works. Same thing for car registrations, and such. If it's expired, even if it has your current address, it is invalid and un-usable.


Then I think one could contend that the state is in fact licensing a fundamental right. If one must pay a fee to have a current state issued ID to be able to purchase a firearm, then by extention they are licensing your 2A rights to you.

HowardW56
10-25-2010, 1:14 PM
Then I think one could contend that the state is in fact licensing a fundamental right. If one must pay a fee to have a current state issued ID to be able to purchase a firearm, then by extention they are licensing your 2A rights to you.


Well, I think you should retain Gary Gorski to file suit on that issue...

Got 100 K to spare?

novabrian
10-25-2010, 1:16 PM
Unless the OP didn't pay the premium....

I am the OP.I went in sat down with an agent paid all I was told to pay.

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 1:32 PM
Well, I think you should retain Gary Gorski to file suit on that issue...

Got 100 K to spare?


If I was....I'd like a decent shot at winning....that's why I donate to CGF! :thumbsup:

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 1:33 PM
I am the OP.I went in sat down with an agent paid all I was told to pay.

If your Ins. Co is in fact AAA it doesn't suprise me. I had a boat policy with them for a couple of years. I was amazed at how they screwed it up every year.

They can't even handle my membership account correctly. Everytime I make a change to my account they somehow manage to close my account instead.

spiderpigs
10-25-2010, 1:36 PM
whats with the hard on in regards to blaming the OP.

Either way, not paying unrelated fee's seems like a sketchy reason to deny someone their rights.

five.five-six
10-25-2010, 1:36 PM
If this is is the wrong spot feel free to move it.I went to pick up my new RIA 1911.The one from the other thread.I was told I was denied.The paper I got says DMV Reject-Invalid Identification.Now the only thing I can think of is this due to the ticket I got on the way home?Or could it be that my DL expires on 11/27/2010? Also the paper says it needs to be reDROS once this is straightened out.So there goes another $35 down the drain.I wish I had called to see if everything was kosher before I drove all the way there.


prolly meg whitmans maid is using your DL for job verification,

Glock22Fan
10-25-2010, 1:40 PM
If your Ins. Co is in fact AAA it doesn't suprise me. I had a boat policy with them for a couple of years. I was amazed at how they screwed it up every year.

They can't even handle my membership account correctly. Everytime I make a change to my account they somehow manage to close my account instead.

We have the AAA and they have always been very helpful. We have had a number of incidents, not our fault, and they have bent over backwards to arrange rental cars, prompt approval of necessary repairs and so forth, and never attempted to raise our rates or dime us out of anything.

Examples include some child smashing a suburban into a large heavy streetlamp which landed on our parked car, and ground squirrels eating the wiring harness in our truck.

novabrian
10-25-2010, 1:58 PM
So one store says no need for the seller to be there while another said we both have to be there to re DROS! WTF!

Cali-Shooter
10-25-2010, 5:02 PM
California WON'T be beat! It'll take away all your gun rights and privileges or your jail time is FREE!!!

/rant off
OP, hope everything turns out ok and that you can get your 1911.

Munk
10-25-2010, 5:06 PM
So one store says no need for the seller to be there while another said we both have to be there to re DROS! WTF!

This would be a Charlie Foxtrot.

Just file a claim with your insurance company for 25$ times two. Explain why they're paying you. And tell them to be grateful you aren't charging them for lost time.


You could also file a complaint and see if they give you a break on your premium for having your license suspended when you acted in good faith by paying your dues up front and in a timely manner. It was THEIR conduct that has caused you financial harm and you deserve to be compensated for the loss in order to be made whole.

If the agent is unreceptive, just keep working your way up the chain. Customer service is a precious issue, and they'd rather not lose a customer when they are clearly in the wrong.

Trendkill
10-25-2010, 5:15 PM
Isnt an SR22 only needed if you've has a DUI..???

novabrian
10-25-2010, 5:15 PM
The agent who didn't file the SR22 no longer works there.So I guess the insurance business wasn't for him.Cause he sucked!!

novabrian
10-25-2010, 5:15 PM
Isnt an SR22 only needed if you've has a DUI..???

Yes!

chaseface
10-26-2010, 12:54 AM
Isnt an SR22 only needed if you've has a DUI..???

An SR 22 is proof of financial responsibility. It can also be required if you have had multiple driving without insurance citations.

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 1:14 AM
Yes!

Ok...so you have some added headaches and lost time/money which are a direct result of your DUI...granted the denial was not "your fault"...you can go the route of banging your head against the wall and demanding money be paid by the "at fault" parties (a LOT of wasted time and aggravation IMHO), or you can chalk it up to a learning experience and another reason why drinking and driving is a bad idea...Best course of action? I dunno...just suffer through whatever the respective stores want you to do, do it, get your guns, and move on. :D

novabrian
10-26-2010, 10:54 AM
The moral of the story is you must have a valid California drivers license and up to date insurance to buy a firearm.

Untamed1972
10-26-2010, 11:01 AM
Ok...so you have some added headaches and lost time/money which are a direct result of your DUI...granted the denial was not "your fault"...you can go the route of banging your head against the wall and demanding money be paid by the "at fault" parties (a LOT of wasted time and aggravation IMHO), or you can chalk it up to a learning experience and another reason why drinking and driving is a bad idea...Best course of action? I dunno...just suffer through whatever the respective stores want you to do, do it, get your guns, and move on. :D


Or you could say that for the cost of the fairly expensive fees one charged for getting the SR22, it is not unreasonable to expect them to actually provide the service for which you paid. Failure to provide the services for which were contracted and paid (and required by law) there should be financial liability to the provider. It is not the Ins. companies job to levee further punishment on it's customers, that is for the courts to do and them alone. (Well and DMV seems to get in a lick or 2 also).

cmichini
10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
The moral of the story is you must have a valid California drivers license and up to date insurance to buy a firearm.

I think more clearly stated: Y need a valid CA ID to purchase a firearm. And that things like unpaid tickets, registered cars without valid insurance, and other offenses may invalidate your license and impact your ability to buy a firearm.

HowardW56
10-26-2010, 1:11 PM
The moral of the story is you must have a valid California drivers license and up to date insurance to buy a firearm.

A current California Identification Card would have worked...

iitoptenii
10-26-2010, 1:48 PM
The registration for a vehicle I own has been suspended for no insurance. My license has not been suspended. Just the registration.

HowardW56
10-26-2010, 1:51 PM
The registration for a vehicle I own has been suspended for no insurance. My license has not been suspended. Just the registration.

Then you aren't subject to the SR-22 requirements a restricted drivers license imposes.

Get a DUI and you will learn about the conditions...


see http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dui/reportability.htm

iitoptenii
10-26-2010, 2:10 PM
And now I know. Thanks. I knew there was a reason I dont drink and drive.

novabrian
10-26-2010, 2:18 PM
Mine was over 3 1/2 years ago and I am still paying for it some how or another.

Glock22Fan
10-26-2010, 2:29 PM
Then you aren't subject to the SR-22 requirements a restricted drivers license imposes.

Get a DUI and you will learn about the conditions...


see http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dui/reportability.htm


In addition to proof of insurance for registration, if you are required to maintain a California Insurance Proof Certificate (SR 22) for your driver license, you will need to have your new insurance company file a new SR 22 with DMV immediately to avoid the suspension of your driver license based on the cancellation of your insurance proof certificate.


Who is "required to maintain a California Insurance Proof Certificate (SR 22) for your driver license?"

zfields
10-26-2010, 2:31 PM
Think of how much you would be paying if you killed someone while driving intoxicated, then complain.

novabrian
10-26-2010, 3:46 PM
But I didn't kill anyone.I didn't even crash my car.So you think I should keep suffering from it.While child molesters and murderers get paroled?

jtmkinsd
10-26-2010, 4:15 PM
Mine was over 3 1/2 years ago and I am still paying for it some how or another.

You only have 6 1/2 years to go...insurance carriers are allowed to consider DUI's in there policy cost for up to 10 years...hope you had a good time

xxsleepyxx
10-26-2010, 4:50 PM
But I didn't kill anyone.I didn't even crash my car.So you think I should keep suffering from it.While child molesters and murderers get paroled?

Hey Brian,

It might have saved a lot of hassle if they had gotten the NICS/DOJ background check feedback immediately. For example in another state: TN, AZ, etc., people can buy firearms within minutes because the check is very quick. How come your FFL didn't give you this immediate feedback?

jeep7081
10-26-2010, 6:17 PM
You're assuming the FFL did something wrong...and you said the license number on your DROS is correct...I can tell you the number is all that matters...on the DROS submition site, I can enter you have blue hair, weigh 500 pounds, and live in the White House and your DROS will come back approved...as long as your license number is correct, current, and you don't have any warrants, owe the DMV money, or some other inane thing...SO, call the number and find out why you were denied.

How do you owe the DMV money? I didn't know this could deny you. Interesting.

ke6guj
10-26-2010, 6:22 PM
Hey Brian,

It might have saved a lot of hassle if they had gotten the NICS/DOJ background check feedback immediately. For example in another state: TN, AZ, etc., people can buy firearms within minutes because the check is very quick. How come your FFL didn't give you this immediate feedback?

Because CADOJ doesn't give immediate feedback. FFLs have stated that they will get "denial" calls on any day from 1-10, and even sometimes on day 11+, after the firearm has already been released to the buyer.

jeep7081
10-26-2010, 6:26 PM
Because CADOJ doesn't give immediate feedback. FFLs have stated that they will get "denial" calls on any day from 1-10, and even sometimes on day 11+, after the firearm has already been released to the buyer.

Just curious, do they contact them by phone, email, or fax? Just curious more than anything.

CharAznable
10-26-2010, 7:32 PM
But I didn't kill anyone.I didn't even crash my car.So you think I should keep suffering from it.While child molesters and murderers get paroled?

Uh, you're not in jail. So what does child molesters getting parole have to do with anything?

Yes, I think you should have to deal with the long-term consequences of your actions. Just like the child molester that is now on the sex offender registry and can't find a place to live...

Sajedene
10-26-2010, 8:50 PM
You only have 6 1/2 years to go...insurance carriers are allowed to consider DUI's in there policy cost for up to 10 years...hope you had a good time

Wouldn't he be able to get it expunged at this point? I figured the probation should be done or almost done. Then get that off your record.

dantodd
10-26-2010, 8:56 PM
The moral of the story is you must have a valid California drivers license and up to date insurance to buy a firearm.

on the bright side, getting denied a firearm is a much better way to find out your license was suspended than finding out during a traffic stop.

M14 Junkie
10-26-2010, 9:53 PM
You only have 6 1/2 years to go...insurance carriers are allowed to consider DUI's in there policy cost for up to 10 years...hope you had a good time

This, and if you get another within that ten years, you are toast. And don't try to visit Canada within that ten year period either. They won't let you in.

You do not want to get a DUI these days, they really put the screws to you.

novabrian
10-26-2010, 10:17 PM
on the bright side, getting denied a firearm is a much better way to find out your license was suspended than finding out during a traffic stop.

This is what is weird.The day I DROS that gun I was pulled over and the cop didn't mention my DL being suspended.

dantodd
10-26-2010, 10:34 PM
This is what is weird.The day I DROS that gun I was pulled over and the cop didn't mention my DL being suspended.

I got a ticket once and had an expired license. I don't think the officer ever noticed the license was expired, didn't mention it to me and didn't write it up.

Of course, in your case he could have seen your valid insurance card and known how often the SR-22 is improperly reported and let it slide. Though, it would have been nice if he'd given you a heads up to have your insurance co. fix it.

Ron-Solo
10-26-2010, 10:50 PM
1. We don't always run every license when we write tickets, so we wouldn't know it was suspended.

2. It is actually a violation to be in possession of a suspended license. You get notice from DMV and are supposed to surrender it.

3. There are more people killed and injured by drunk drivers every year than children are molested in this state.

4. The last study I did (2006) regarding DUI statistics showed that California alone killed more (by 30%) people by drunk drivers than we lost from combat deaths in Iraq and Afganistan combined. That didn't count the other 49 states. Injuries from DUI were 3-1 over combat in 2006.

5. Hopefully you have learned your lesson about drinking and driving, so future arrests should not be an issue. It is very expensive.

6. When working the field, I did not always arrest someone for weapons violations based on the circumstances. I never gave a drunk driver a break. That's just how I roll.

ETD1010
10-27-2010, 8:27 AM
Just curious, do they contact them by phone, email, or fax? Just curious more than anything.

We get a phone call, a letter, AND it shows up in our DROS hompage. As for DMV reject denials, they usually show up 1-2 days after we submit them. I'm assuming this is because once the DROS is received and starts processing, it will automatically get kicked back by the system since it has nothing to do with reviewing a background and just flagging the DL as invalid.

Flintlock Tom
10-27-2010, 8:42 AM
There are more people killed and injured by drunk drivers every year than children are molested in this state.

How could you possibly know this?
I would guess, and it's only a guess, that the vast majority of child molestations go unreported. The cases that get noticed are the ones who die in the emergency room, and evidence of long-term molestation is found during the autopsy.
It undermines your whole argument when you state an opinion as fact.

Arreaux
10-27-2010, 9:12 AM
I just discovered a couple weeks ago that the DMV is now connected to a national data base of sorts...
I'm still waiting on my new DL its been 8 weeks so far.
I paid for my renewal and was waiting, well they said to call only after 6 weeks if I have not received it. So at six weeks I call and discover that I owe Arizona DMV $10.00 from 1984!!
They said I made a payment late on a ticket and there was a late fee that was never paid. I moved back to California in that year, so it never knew about this fee until recently.

I had to call Arizona DMV and make the $10 payment just to get my renewal here in California.

Good thing I discovered this now before my firearm came in.

fairfaxjim
10-27-2010, 9:51 AM
This is what is weird.The day I DROS that gun I was pulled over and the cop didn't mention my DL being suspended.

My advice to you is to figure out why you are so damn attractive to the LEO boys out there. You need to find a way to go stealth - your present mojo don't seem to be working.

As for the cop not mentioning your suspension, you are expecting the right hand to know what the left is doing. Also, I sometimes get the feeling that the DOJ investigation will arbitrarily key on things that aren't really a problem just because they can. Once they deny you, they are the judge, jury and hangman.

geeknow
10-27-2010, 10:47 AM
How could you possibly know this?
I would guess, and it's only a guess, that the vast majority of child molestations go unreported. The cases that get noticed are the ones who die in the emergency room, and evidence of long-term molestation is found during the autopsy.
It undermines your whole argument when you state an opinion as fact.


I would humbly request you consider the source before passing judgement...
:cool2:

M14 Junkie
10-27-2010, 1:38 PM
My advice to you is to figure out why you are so damn attractive to the LEO boys out there. You need to find a way to go stealth - your present mojo don't seem to be working.

As for the cop not mentioning your suspension, you are expecting the right hand to know what the left is doing. Also, I sometimes get the feeling that the DOJ investigation will arbitrarily key on things that aren't really a problem just because they can. Once they deny you, they are the judge, jury and hangman.

Excellent post. You'd be surprised at what can be denied to you if you don't pay your taxes, insurance premiums, bills, parking tickets, moving violations, or any other financial obligations.

In THIS State, for all intents and purpose, the right to own a firearm IS NOT A RIGHT. The STATE legislature has made it a PRIVILEDGE. Such as it deems a drivers license, etc..

jtmkinsd
10-28-2010, 1:37 AM
How do you owe the DMV money? I didn't know this could deny you. Interesting.

Don't pay your registration...or not paying a toll on a toll road (those tickets can be passed to the DMV for collection...there is a number of ways.

Just curious, do they contact them by phone, email, or fax? Just curious more than anything.

The DROS entry system will send and alert and we print a copy, they might call (not always), and they mail a copy for good measure.

Wouldn't he be able to get it expunged at this point? I figured the probation should be done or almost done. Then get that off your record.

Expungement would be no help

I just discovered a couple weeks ago that the DMV is now connected to a national data base of sorts...
I'm still waiting on my new DL its been 8 weeks so far.
I paid for my renewal and was waiting, well they said to call only after 6 weeks if I have not received it. So at six weeks I call and discover that I owe Arizona DMV $10.00 from 1984!!
They said I made a payment late on a ticket and there was a late fee that was never paid. I moved back to California in that year, so it never knew about this fee until recently.

I had to call Arizona DMV and make the $10 payment just to get my renewal here in California.

Good thing I discovered this now before my firearm came in.

There has been a national system which connects driver's license bureaus for a long time...back in my young and dumb days I got a ticket in Oklahoma...I was just driving through so I thought I was soooooo smart and decided not to pay. When my license came up for renewal...guess what..."your license is suspended...you need to contact the department of public safety in Oklahoma City"

It took two and a half weeks and $300 (it was a $50 speeding ticket originally) to get my license restored. This was all back in 1993 or 1994 I believe.

tenpercentfirearms
10-28-2010, 4:48 AM
So one store says no need for the seller to be there while another said we both have to be there to re DROS! WTF!

It depends on what kind of gun it is. If it is a long gun, the dealer can just process it like a standard transfer. This then open you up to be charged more than $10, but a smart FFL will realize they just charge you the same $10 and forget about having to get the seller's signature.

If it is a rostered handgun you could use the same process.

If it is a non-rostered handgun, it must be PPTed so that seller signature needs to be on a PPT DROS and the seller would have to come back in.

Dr.Lou
10-28-2010, 5:54 AM
Ron-solo, I agree with you on all points except the child molester one. How do you know that there are fewer child molesters than DUI deaths since most molest go unreported.

Novabrain, you do not need a valid CA DL to buy a gun, a valid CA ID card works just the same.

stitchnicklas
10-28-2010, 7:04 AM
Crucifixion of those that have gotten dui's is not cool,people make mistakes everyday.
some people learn from those mistakes and pay all their dues on it,just because a person got a dui say 4 yrs ago paid their fees,dui classes,community service,probation,dmv fees,does not mean they are a douche. now if their actions caused them to slide into a family of 6 then yes they are a douche....

dui's fall off your record after 10yrs with the dmv and insurance co.

he courts keep them against you for life now, dui in 1970 1st,dui in 1991 2nd,dui in 2011 3rd,etc etc no more drop off's after 3 yrs

1st dui=6mo dmv suspension,court,3 month alcohol class,15-20 days community service,1500 bucks fine,4 yrs probation,aa,lawyer maybe,only if no accident.

2nd dui,same as above except 18 month alcohol class,1-2 yrs suspension of dmv,aa ..

3rd dui=you fubar, 4-5 yr revocation of dmv,6mo-1 year jail,double fines,car forfeited,aa,breath sensor in your car for a while,bubba waiting for you in prison for you next f-up..

4th dui=good bye ,off to prison and all of the above...........should have learned.

i made a mistake 10yrs ago,did what i had to do over 1 beer,never ever have done it again...........been the designated driver for 10 yrs and the next 60yrs....and proud of it.

Trendkill
10-28-2010, 1:44 PM
Mine was over 3 1/2 years ago and I am still paying for it some how or another.


The only reason I know is because I had the same thing happen to me years ago.


For me....no drinky and drivey = good results for everyone. I have kids , job , wife etc to think about now.

Its been about ten years now and Im glad the past is in the past.

novabrian
10-28-2010, 2:53 PM
I went to the DMV after having to wait for my Ins. to file an SR22.My DL is now reinstated.So I can re-DROS my firearms anytime.I am all legal once again.

rodeoflyer
10-28-2010, 3:01 PM
Congrats. The DMV is a royal pain to deal with.

novabrian
10-29-2010, 1:15 PM
The saga continues.Got everything cleared up and went to re DROS it and the DOJ system was down.So I guess I will try tomorrow to go back and re do it!

novabrian
11-01-2010, 6:50 PM
Well maybe because it's All Saints' Day! But I got one of my 1911's this evening.Still have to go DROS the other one.But atleast I have the Kimber to play with.:)

dantodd
11-01-2010, 7:31 PM
Glad to see things are working out for you

753X0
11-02-2010, 5:19 AM
How could you possibly know this?
I would guess, and it's only a guess, that the vast majority of child molestations go unreported. The cases that get noticed are the ones who die in the emergency room, and evidence of long-term molestation is found during the autopsy.
It undermines your whole argument when you state an opinion as fact.

Similarly, most DUI's are never intercepted. I think the original point is well taken.

OleCuss
11-02-2010, 5:30 AM
Not only are a lot of DUI's never intercepted, a lot of deaths due to DUI are not detected either.

There was a study years ago that looked at the number of alcohol-involved deaths as opposed to DUI deaths (not legally drunk or the investigation did not look at the correct driver, etc.) and the deaths possibly attributable to drinking and driving was (IIRC) something like 40% higher than the official DUI death stats.

Ron-Solo
11-02-2010, 9:46 AM
Ron-solo, I agree with you on all points except the child molester one. How do you know that there are fewer child molesters than DUI deaths since most molest go unreported.



32 years of experience at some of the busiest (and worst areas) of LA County. I've done both DUI enforcement and child molestation investigations. I don't have actual numbers on the child abuse figures, but based on my experience, they are lower than DUI deaths.

Sadly, child molestation cases are also high, but in my experience, not as high as DUI deaths.

Neither will ever get any slack from me.

This is not a "which is worse" debate, since neither should be acceptable to society.

boxbro
11-02-2010, 10:02 AM
This is not a "which is worse" debate, since neither should be acceptable to society.

I don't like the way Drunk Driving laws are written.
I am not condoning DD but I think an arbitrary percentage based on BAC is ridiculous.
I don't drive drunk but I'd bet I can drive better drunk than a lot of people can sober.
I think it would be much more fair if people were tested on how well they can drive sober and at certain BAC levels.
There are people out there that shouldn't be driving even sober.
It would be nice for drunk drivers to be given a driving test to show whether or not they were truly incapable of driving a car satisfactorily.

Ron-Solo
11-02-2010, 2:22 PM
I don't like the way Drunk Driving laws are written.
I am not condoning DD but I think an arbitrary percentage based on BAC is ridiculous.
I don't drive drunk but I'd bet I can drive better drunk than a lot of people can sober.
I think it would be much more fair if people were tested on how well they can drive sober and at certain BAC levels.
There are people out there that shouldn't be driving even sober.
It would be nice for drunk drivers to be given a driving test to show whether or not they were truly incapable of driving a car satisfactorily.

Sounds like the logic from a lot of drunks I've arrested.

boxbro
11-02-2010, 2:41 PM
Sounds like the logic from a lot of drunks I've arrested.

That doesn't mean the point is invalid.
Do you doubt that some people that meet the definition of legally drunk can drive better than some people that are sober ?
If the idea is to make sure people have a certain skill level while driving then perhaps we should have a test to determine peoples skill level.
It seems like it would be more accurate in determining how safely one can drive.
Just because someone is "impaired" doesn't necessarily mean they lack the ability to drive well.
For example, if you take the average drinker and give them 3 beers, I'd bet dollars to donuts they can drive better than a large percentage of sober senior drivers.

HowardW56
11-02-2010, 2:58 PM
I've never even been arrested for anything.

Sorry, I was in a wise *** mood....

I deleted the post...