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View Full Version : Legality of carrying a 3.5" folding/locking knife on an independent school campus


POLICESTATE
10-22-2010, 7:57 PM
Specifically Park Day School located in Oakland. I would think that such a place would be okay to bring my 3.5" lockback folding knife with me for the maker faire on Sunday (not my idea, my wife is dragging me to this thing with the kids) but then you never know and possibly my knife might not be legit in Oakland either.

Anyway, anybody got some solid info on this?

Librarian
10-22-2010, 8:07 PM
Specifically Park Day School located in Oakland. I would think that such a place would be okay to bring my 3.5" lockback folding knife with me for the maker faire on Sunday (not my idea, my wife is dragging me to this thing with the kids) but then you never know and possibly my knife might not be legit in Oakland either.

Anyway, anybody got some solid info on this?

On K-12 school grounds, it is illegal to bring most knives: PC 626.10

(a) Any person, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick,

knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches,

folding knife with a blade that locks into place,

a razor with an unguarded blade,

upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive,

is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

Your 3 1/2 inch locking folder fails on 2 counts, as underlined.

See also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2289918&postcount=6

POLICESTATE
10-22-2010, 8:28 PM
Crap, disarmed in the belly of the beast!

Oh wells, I'll just have to be extra alert and hopefully it rains, I find rain tends to keep miscreants under their rocks :D

SoCal Gunner
10-23-2010, 8:27 AM
On K-12 school grounds, it is illegal to bring most knives: PC 626.10

(a) Any person, … who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick,

knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches,

folding knife with a blade that locks into place,

a razor with an unguarded blade,

upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive,

is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

See also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2289918&postcount=6

Is that an "AND" statement, ie >2.5" AND locks? Or any locking folding knife (regardless of size) is illegal? EDIT: Yep, any illegal is how it reads to me.

Also, what is the definition of school grounds? Is the parking lot, driveway, side walk to entrance the "school grounds"?

Librarian
10-23-2010, 9:56 AM
Is that an "AND" statement, ie >2.5" AND locks? Or any locking folding knife (regardless of size) is illegal? EDIT: Yep, any illegal is how it reads to me.

Also, what is the definition of school grounds? Is the parking lot, driveway, side walk to entrance the "school grounds"?

PC 627.1 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/15/1.1/s627.1) As used in this chapter, with regard to a public school:...
(b)"School grounds" are the buildings and grounds of the public school.That's not all that helpful, is it?

Oddly, when nothing better is specified, it's usually because the legislators didn't think (sometimes a period goes here, but keep going ... ) the language is ambiguous.

I'd say pretty much any place around a regular school (that is, field trips off 'school grounds' do not count) where a teacher could tell a student to do something school-appropriate and the student could get in trouble if he/she failed to obey qualifies as 'school grounds' -- to include all the places you questioned.

In support of this, EC 17002 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/EDC/1/d1/10/12/1/s17002) requires schools be kept in 'good repair':(d)(1)"Good repair" means the facility is maintained in a manner that assures that it is clean, safe, and functional as determined pursuant to a school facility inspection ....
(R)School grounds, fields, walkways, and parking lot surfaces are free of significant cracks, trip hazards, holes, deterioration that affects functionality or safety, and other health and safety hazards.That's different code, of course, but it matches an ordinary meaning for the term 'school grounds'.

The public sidewalk adjoining the curb or street is NOT part of school grounds, though anecdotes suggest administrators have gotten pretty possessive about those, too.

Decoligny
10-23-2010, 5:40 PM
Is that an "AND" statement, ie >2.5" AND locks? Or any locking folding knife (regardless of size) is illegal? EDIT: Yep, any illegal is how it reads to me.

Also, what is the definition of school grounds? Is the parking lot, driveway, side walk to entrance the "school grounds"?

On K-12 school grounds, it is illegal to bring most knives: PC 626.10

(a) Any person, who brings or possesses
1. any dirk,
2. dagger,
3. ice pick,
4. knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches,
5. folding knife with a blade that locks into place,
6. a razor with an unguarded blade,

upon the grounds of, or within, any public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any of grades 1 to 12, inclusive,

is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

Hope that makes it clearer.

harbinger007
10-25-2010, 9:22 PM
Heck, I've violated this often without realizing it. I'll have a CCW soon and can carry a handgun onto school grounds but yet could get convicted for my pocket knife (3.25" blade that locks).

Decoligny
10-26-2010, 8:39 AM
Heck, I've violated this often without realizing it. I'll have a CCW soon and can carry a handgun onto school grounds but yet could get convicted for my pocket knife (3.25" blade that locks).

I have a Swiss Army Knife with a 2.5" non-locking blade that I keep handy in my car for whenever I have to go onto school grounds (very rarely).

xxsleepyxx
10-26-2010, 8:56 AM
Pepper spray also excluded?

JJE
10-26-2010, 8:58 AM
The Oakland Muni Code (9.36.010.A) defines a knife with a blade 3" or longer as a dangerous weapon. However:

9.36.020 - Carrying dangerous weapon.

It is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control any dangerous weapon; provided that it shall be a defense to any prosecution for a violation of this section if, at the time of the alleged violation, the instrument or device alleged to be a dangerous weapon was in good faith carried upon the person of the accused or was in good faith in his or her possession or control for use in his or her lawful occupation or employment or for the purpose of lawful recreation; and provided, further, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to the commission of any act which is made a public offense by any law of this state.

So if you were prosecuted, you would be allowed to attempt to establish that the knife was carried for use at work or for "lawful recreation." Since Oakland has their hands full with people actually killing other people, I doubt they would prosecute a law-abiding citizen for mere possession. I personally wouldn't worry about it. But if I had a sub-3" knife that did what I needed, obviously, I'd carry that instead.

harbinger007
10-26-2010, 9:14 AM
I have a Swiss Army Knife with a 2.5" non-locking blade that I keep handy in my car for whenever I have to go onto school grounds (very rarely).

It's not that I need a knife when going onto school grounds, but I always carry my knife on me and I typically use it several times daily in my farm work, etc. It's difficult to remember to remove it when I walk onto school grounds. Having to remove it will likely result in my forgetting it and later not having it when I need it. Wish I could add it to my CCW.

Curtis
10-26-2010, 9:53 AM
I volunteered one day at my kids' school. I had two different 2nd graders ask why I had a knife at school. I didn't remember to take it off my pocket. This also happens at Disneyland.

I did notice that my school doesn't have any signs regarding weapons....but they have several large signs saying "Tobacco Free Zone." Or something close to that.