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View Full Version : So I can't legally shoot my handgun at age 19 in the range?


JayTee_IsMe
10-22-2010, 6:42 PM
Okay, so I went to two ranges and I was turned down today for the first time for not being 21 to shoot my own handgun. They were telling me that I must be 21 to legally possess and swore because I am military I must have purchased my handgun out of state?!?! How? I believe it's 21 to purchase nation-wide, guy. Anywho, my father purchased my handgun and Intrafamilial/Oplaw or whatever through the DOJ to me. I got confirmation of everything from them after my paperwork went through. So I was trying to explain this to them and how I BELIEVE that it's 18 to posses, 21 to purchase, and if you wanna get technical I read 16 with written permission to and from the range/hunting? So finally he tells me the range's insurance set policies according to the laws. So are there any ranges from Vallejo upwards to Sacramento that aren't Nazis about who shoots there? I just want to shoot my legally owned handgun and not need to be 'accompanied by an adult'. Lol I live with my daughter and fiance, what adult is coming to the range with me?!?! Thanks for the input guys!

Havoc70
10-22-2010, 6:46 PM
Bah, I lied. I called Center Mass and you have to be 21 to be unsupervised. It must be an insurance thing, I dunno.

pullnshoot25
10-22-2010, 6:46 PM
You can own a handgun at 19 as long as it is transferred you from your parents.

Buying ammunition, however, is kind of a pain.

pullnshoot25
10-22-2010, 6:47 PM
I would also like to mention that possession of a handgun by someone under 21 is not necessarily a crime either.

JayTee_IsMe
10-22-2010, 7:01 PM
Yeah that's what I thought. I went to Center Mass and then Guns Fishing and Other Stuff both in Vaca. Center Mass is where I had the whole conversation at with the staff. Ammo, that too is a pain, but I buy online and it seems like they don't care who signs for things in Fairfield. But I knew that if it was properly transferred to me then I am legally allowed to posess. I just wish there is a range that will just let me shoot.

thefinger
10-22-2010, 10:32 PM
Well if you're out near vacaville why don't you check out Yolo Sportsmens Association. They run a safe range, but they don't hassle you about your guns as long as you're being safe with them. I would be SHOCKED if they didn't let you shoot there. It's an outdoor range btw.

thefinger
10-22-2010, 10:33 PM
Yolo Sportsmens Association is right outside of Woodland on 113. Right next to the Yolo County Airport.

Davidoff
10-22-2010, 11:05 PM
+1 for Yolo Sportmen's Association. The only age policy I know of there is that minors under 18 must have an adult present to shoot.

jb7706
10-22-2010, 11:07 PM
Okay, so I went to two ranges and I was turned down today for the first time for not being 21 to shoot my own handgun. They were telling me that I must be 21 to legally possess and swore because I am military I must have purchased my handgun out of state?!?! How? I believe it's 21 to purchase nation-wide, guy. Anywho, my father purchased my handgun and Intrafamilial/Oplaw or whatever through the DOJ to me. I got confirmation of everything from them after my paperwork went through. So I was trying to explain this to them and how I BELIEVE that it's 18 to posses, 21 to purchase, and if you wanna get technical I read 16 with written permission to and from the range/hunting? So finally he tells me the range's insurance set policies according to the laws. So are there any ranges from Vallejo upwards to Sacramento that aren't Nazis about who shoots there? I just want to shoot my legally owned handgun and not need to be 'accompanied by an adult'. Lol I live with my daughter and fiance, what adult is coming to the range with me?!?! Thanks for the input guys!

Take a drive out to Sac Valley (http://www.sacvalley.org) tomorrow. The line is covered, and the staff friendly. As long as you act like an adult you will be treated like one. Let me know if I can be of any help.

asme
10-23-2010, 2:53 AM
Buying ammunition, however, is kind of a pain.

"It's for my Thompson ;)"

Works every time.

Munk
10-23-2010, 4:35 AM
Yeah, like the others, I was going to say "posession is fine" and "not a crime", but it also got me thinking. It really must be a pain to buy ammo since many cals are considered "handgun" ammo, even though there are rifle/carbine versions of every single caliber out there.

It would be nice if the state would clearly define what "handgun" ammo is so they can be taken to task for it.

This kind of determination is based on intended and actual use, much like when something is considered a weapon.

Quiet
10-23-2010, 8:47 AM
It's a judgement call on the ammo seller.
If the seller does not believe the buyer (who is aged 18-20) is buying handgun ammo for use in a rifle, then the seller can not sell that person the ammo. [PC 12316(a)(1)(B)]


If you are 18-20 and have trouble purchasing handgun ammo, then reload! It's what my friends and I did.
There's no prohibition from acquiring ammo components and loading your own ammo.



Penal Code 12316
(a)(1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does either of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under 18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.

patsline74
10-23-2010, 9:17 AM
Bah, I lied. I called Center Mass and you have to be 21 to be unsupervised. It must be an insurance thing, I dunno.

Odd, I've asked and they've said 18 if you own the handgun, 21 to rent one of theirs. Maybe they changed their policy?

motoyam
10-23-2010, 9:22 AM
Okay, so I went to two ranges and I was turned down today for the first time for not being 21 to shoot my own handgun. They were telling me that I must be 21 to legally possess and swore because I am military I must have purchased my handgun out of state?!?! How? I believe it's 21 to purchase nation-wide, guy. Anywho, my father purchased my handgun and Intrafamilial/Oplaw or whatever through the DOJ to me. I got confirmation of everything from them after my paperwork went through. So I was trying to explain this to them and how I BELIEVE that it's 18 to posses, 21 to purchase, and if you wanna get technical I read 16 with written permission to and from the range/hunting? So finally he tells me the range's insurance set policies according to the laws. So are there any ranges from Vallejo upwards to Sacramento that aren't Nazis about who shoots there? I just want to shoot my legally owned handgun and not need to be 'accompanied by an adult'. Lol I live with my daughter and fiance, what adult is coming to the range with me?!?! Thanks for the input guys!

I ran into the exact same thing. I came back on leave after 2 years overseas and was not yet 21, went to Sacramento they would not let me shoot. Los angeles would. Now i'm back overseas again. Sacramento can go **** itself.

loather
10-23-2010, 9:24 AM
Insurance companies are of the devil.

FS00008
10-23-2010, 10:51 AM
That's why you don't go to an indoor range, especially Guns Fishing and stuff in Vacaville. That place is now and always will be utterly horrible.

twotap
10-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Show them your military ID and remind them you serve to protect their freedom and you would like the extra practice cause where you go there is NO do overs.

negolien
10-23-2010, 1:12 PM
Did you volunteer the info that you were under age because I ever have had anyone ever ask me.

As a side not try not to call the range guys Nazi's for following the law that's their job. Not that it's not frustrating but it's a battle for those guys to stay open as it is following the law.

rugershooter
10-23-2010, 3:33 PM
I've never had a problem using mine, and I'm 19 also. I've just told them that I got it through an intrafamilial transfer so it's legal and they don't have a problem with it. If it's an issue, and you don't really have any other ranges to go to, you could bring in the DOJ paperwork and a copy of the law allowing intrafamilial transfers. That should clear it up, hopefully.
Edit: I usually don't say anything about it unles they ask, though. It also helps that I'm older than I look, so they usually don't even bother to ask.

CSACANNONEER
10-23-2010, 3:47 PM
Sounds like the ranges that you went to are either not up on the law. It's ALWAYS been 18 to own and 21 to buy. But, that is an entirely different topic than shooting it at a range when you are under 21. It's their range, their insurance and their rules. I used to hate turning away members of the military who were under 21 and already back from a tour in the sandbox. But, it was our insurance and range policy to do so. Hell, most people get a driver's license at 16 but, most places won't rent them a vehicle until they are 25!!!!!! Probably all race tracks won't rent to anyone under a certain age (18, 21, 25????) either. It's unfortunate but, it's also reality. Things have changed over the years. I used to go to Coyote Point and shoot with friends when none of us were over 17. I doubt that a bunch of kids could do that today though.

JayTee_IsMe
10-24-2010, 9:42 AM
I've never had a problem using mine, and I'm 19 also. I've just told them that I got it through an intrafamilial transfer so it's legal and they don't have a problem with it. If it's an issue, and you don't really have any other ranges to go to, you could bring in the DOJ paperwork and a copy of the law allowing intrafamilial transfers. That should clear it up, hopefully.
Edit: I usually don't say anything about it unles they ask, though. It also helps that I'm older than I look, so they usually don't even bother to ask.

I figured I should just carry that stuff on me. Maybe it will help next time. But I believe that I am going to try out the Yolo range.

chaseface
10-24-2010, 2:36 PM
Did you volunteer the info that you were under age because I ever have had anyone ever ask me.

As a side not try not to call the range guys Nazi's for following the law that's their job. Not that it's not frustrating but it's a battle for those guys to stay open as it is following the law.

What law? It's already been stated that the OP legally owns his weapon and is therefor within his rights to fire that weapon.

CSACANNONEER
10-24-2010, 2:43 PM
What law? It's already been stated that the OP legally owns his weapon and is therefor within his rights to fire that weapon.

And, EVERY RANGE IS WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS to refuse to let him shoot at their facilities. So, what exactly is your point? Do you think that the gubmet should force bussinesses to not refuse service to anyone?

pullnshoot25
10-24-2010, 4:06 PM
"It's for my Thompson ;)"

Works every time.

Yep. I just brought my .44mag levergun in to buy ammo, that always worked, hehe :)

SFgiants105
10-24-2010, 4:33 PM
I've never had a problem using mine, and I'm 19 also. I've just told them that I got it through an intrafamilial transfer so it's legal and they don't have a problem with it. If it's an issue, and you don't really have any other ranges to go to, you could bring in the DOJ paperwork and a copy of the law allowing intrafamilial transfers. That should clear it up, hopefully.
Edit: I usually don't say anything about it unles they ask, though. It also helps that I'm older than I look, so they usually don't even bother to ask.

:iagree:

vincewarde
10-24-2010, 5:37 PM
Take a drive out to Sac Valley (http://www.sacvalley.org) tomorrow. The line is covered, and the staff friendly. As long as you act like an adult you will be treated like one. Let me know if I can be of any help.

Do we still offer discounted range fees for active duty military? If so, that would help pay for his gas.

jb7706
10-24-2010, 6:12 PM
Do we still offer discounted range fees for active duty military? If so, that would help pay for his gas.

I believe so. It would be best to call the office and verify. Please let me know if it does not exist, I'll get that fixed.

VTRweasel
10-24-2010, 6:30 PM
Show them your military ID and remind them you serve to protect their freedom and you would like the extra practice cause where you go there is NO do overs.

:iagree:

Things have changed over the years. I used to go to Coyote Point and shoot with friends when none of us were over 17. I doubt that a bunch of kids could do that today though.

Hey, me too. :D Back in the 80's. I need to go back there soon.

Anchors
10-24-2010, 7:37 PM
Show them your military ID and remind them you serve to protect their freedom and you would like the extra practice cause where you go there is NO do overs.

Seriously man.

Somewhat OT, isn't there a range on base that you're authorized to use?

2Bear
10-24-2010, 8:05 PM
Seriously man.

Somewhat OT, isn't there a range on base that you're authorized to use?

Don't be silly, you're not allowed to have guns on military bases.

He can kill for us, just don't practice near us...?!!! Insurance companies rule the world.

Good grief.

Anchors
10-24-2010, 8:57 PM
Don't be silly, you're not allowed to have guns on military bases.

He can kill for us, just don't practice near us...?!!! Insurance companies rule the world.

Good grief.

Ohh yeah. You have to check any personal weapons if kept on base don't you?

Well, can he practice with his M16 and M9 on the base? haha.

Wasn't this one of the controversies over the on base shooting recently? That almost none of the people there could have firearms on them for self-defense to the guy managed to injure and murder serveral people with a handgun?

I have pondered the "Old enough for war, but not old enough to drink or own a gun" debate for years. It's the same circular logic that anti-gun people use.

Like, oh you're 17? Sure, here's an automatic weapon. Thanks for putting your life on the line for your country, but no you are much to irresponsible to buy your own gun.

chaseface
10-26-2010, 9:39 PM
And, EVERY RANGE IS WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS to refuse to let him shoot at their facilities. So, what exactly is your point? Do you think that the gubmet should force bussinesses to not refuse service to anyone?

Of course not. It is their right to refuse service just as it is ours to go somewhere else. I have no problem with Center Mass I did a transfer there last month and they were very friendly. I was replying to the post "try not to call the range guys Nazi's for following the law". I was making the point that it is not the law in this case that is being followed it is their rules. It is insurance or the personal choice of management that made the rule. I wouldn't go around being rude and calling anyone a Nazi, I'm just saying its not the law. If I was the OP I would be pissed, but I would be polite, inform them that they lost a customer due to their rules and move on.

Chase

JayTee_IsMe
10-28-2010, 7:58 AM
Of course not. It is their right to refuse service just as it is ours to go somewhere else. I have no problem with Center Mass I did a transfer there last month and they were very friendly. I was replying to the post "try not to call the range guys Nazi's for following the law". I was making the point that it is not the law in this case that is being followed it is their rules. It is insurance or the personal choice of management that made the rule. I wouldn't go around being rude and calling anyone a Nazi, I'm just saying its not the law. If I was the OP I would be pissed, but I would be polite, inform them that they lost a customer due to their rules and move on.

Chase

Hey, I didn't mean to offend. I was just a bit mad and irate because the people there were like arguing with me telling me there is no way I could own my own handgun at 19, and I tried to explain the intrafamilial and they were still telling me "Nooo... I don't think you can do that in California. It's 21 to but and 21 to posess" Even another customer was telling them I was correct. But still I did not mean to offend, and Center Mass is a wonderful facility. 98% of the staff are cool people, and I even talked with the owner one day. (He's the one who told me about the intrafamilial transfers!!) Anyway, maybe I just went there on a bad day, because I used to shoot my .22 rifles there and I used to shoot my Firestar .40 there as well... And I still reccomend the place to EVERYONE who's old enough to shoot. They're military friendly, and offer the range at a discount to us as well as law enforcement. So for the third time, I did not mean to offend, that was just what I said at the time. If I tell someone I got Jewed, I wouldn't mean to offend either. It's just my strange vocabulary I guess.

Gray Peterson
10-28-2010, 8:24 AM
Hey, I didn't mean to offend. I was just a bit mad and irate because the people there were like arguing with me telling me there is no way I could own my own handgun at 19, and I tried to explain the intrafamilial and they were still telling me "Nooo... I don't think you can do that in California. It's 21 to but and 21 to posess" Even another customer was telling them I was correct. But still I did not mean to offend, and Center Mass is a wonderful facility. 98% of the staff are cool people, and I even talked with the owner one day. (He's the one who told me about the intrafamilial transfers!!) Anyway, maybe I just went there on a bad day, because I used to shoot my .22 rifles there and I used to shoot my Firestar .40 there as well... And I still reccomend the place to EVERYONE who's old enough to shoot. They're military friendly, and offer the range at a discount to us as well as law enforcement..

Apply for a carry license from Sacramento County, to put doubt to that idea that 18 year olds can't possess. They can actually CARRY with a PC12050 license.

-Gray

chaseface
10-28-2010, 2:59 PM
Hey, I didn't mean to offend. I was just a bit mad and irate because the people there were like arguing with me telling me there is no way I could own my own handgun at 19, and I tried to explain the intrafamilial and they were still telling me "Nooo... I don't think you can do that in California. It's 21 to but and 21 to posess" Even another customer was telling them I was correct. But still I did not mean to offend, and Center Mass is a wonderful facility. 98% of the staff are cool people, and I even talked with the owner one day. (He's the one who told me about the intrafamilial transfers!!) Anyway, maybe I just went there on a bad day, because I used to shoot my .22 rifles there and I used to shoot my Firestar .40 there as well... And I still reccomend the place to EVERYONE who's old enough to shoot. They're military friendly, and offer the range at a discount to us as well as law enforcement. So for the third time, I did not mean to offend, that was just what I said at the time. If I tell someone I got Jewed, I wouldn't mean to offend either. It's just my strange vocabulary I guess.

I did not take offense to anything you said. Center Mass is a cool place, but it is totally a bummer that you couldn't shoot your handgun there. Personally I'm not much for indoor ranges. I like going up to the mountains where I can shoot and not have to deal with range rules. The best range near me has a one-shot every two seconds rule that I just don't want to deal with, plus i'll take any excuse to get up into the woods for a few days.