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psmith
10-22-2010, 9:57 AM
A friend I was talking to, explaining why I couldnt go along with him on a hunting trip in November, suggested that I come visit this site and ask, so here I am, first, thank you for all your input.

I have a legal question, just thought I might ask, I'm sure plenty here will be able to answer.

In 1997, I was charged with a 12280(b) (possession of an assault riffle) (along with a baseball bat that they said was in my car as a dangerous weapon) (a charge later dropped).

When I pleaded guilty to the charge 12280(b) they dropped the other charge and also reduced the 12280(b) to a misdemeanor as it was a wobbler. After probation when the charge was expundged, the judge decided to change my plea to not-guilty per 1203.4 BUT added a EXCEPT to the notes stating I could not own a firearm. I am not sure why he decided to do this 10 years ago, since originally in charge, being a wobbler, it was reduced to a misdemeanor.

I have checked some of the online legal sites and one of the local attorneys sites specializing in returning 2a rights. Most everything I read, confuses me. Here is a quote from the a site (I wont mention who here, not sure if you or they like that):

"Your Right to Own/Possess Firearms


A misdemeanor conviction won’t by itself revoke your right to own or possess a firearm. But if you are convicted as a felony, you will be prohibited from purchasing, receiving, owning, or possessing a firearm for life.35

If you are convicted of a felony under the "wobbler" subdivision of PC 12280…and you successfully have the felony reduced to a misdemeanor…your gun rights will be restored.

Otherwise, there is no other way to restore your California gun rights. Even a certificate of rehabilitation and/or a governor’s pardon does not restore firearm rights to someone who has been convicted of a felony that involves the use of a dangerous weapon…a definition that clearly includes assault weapons and .50 BMG rifles.36"


I thought I fell under the wobbler subdivision and my original charge (Not at expungement) was reduced to a misdemeanor. And I always was under the impression that some day my rights would be restored.


Here is basically my question: When you are convicted of a possession of an assault weapon, is that considered a felony that involves the "use" of a dangerous weapon. I personally read that to imply that a charge of "using" the weapon would mean a charge of 12280 while using the weapon, i.e.: robbery armed with weapon, assault armed with weapon, etc.

I ask, because although I am getting ready to hire an attorney to represent me on getting my rights back based on the fact that my felony was charged as a misdemeanor, and I should have not been given a lifetime ban. *BUT* I was going to also go for a certificate of rehabilitation as a means to get my rights back, but I read a clause in the certificate of rehabilitation that says it doesn't return rights to someone that has been convicted of a felony that involves the *use* of a dangerous weapon (where my question comes in, is possession of a dangerous weapon the same as a felony that involves the use of a dangerous weapon).

Man, what a mess, when this legally owned AR was added to the assault weapon list, I should have made sure to have it registered during the time It was legal to report it to authorities and after that time ended, I should have turned it in.

Thanks in advance for any input, I'm trying to understand these laws and have made it a point to be a model citizen since.

Librarian
10-22-2010, 10:31 AM
A mess, indeed.

I think your best course is Real Lawyers here - too complex for Internet Lawyers™ - and I'm glad that's your plan.

At a guess, the cert of rehab seems the likely route. The bit about 'use' has come up before, and IIRC convictions have been upheld based on 'use' when the gun in question was used in payment for drugs!

jaymz
10-22-2010, 10:33 AM
Contact CGF and see what can be done done to restore your 2A rights. As far as hunting with your friend goes, I'm fairly certain it's ok to tag along, you just can't be in possesion of a firearm.

dantodd
10-22-2010, 11:37 AM
As Librarian said, you need a real lawyer.

To me it sounds like you had a non-prohibiting misdemeanor turned into a lifelong prohibition by a judge with no due process.

psmith
10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
CFN? I am aware but unfamiliar with the site (if you mean Calguns Foundation Network). I know I need good legal assistance, at least for someone to tell me my choices at the very least (if any). Anyone care to point out a starting point? Solicit a advocate lawyer from this site, or the CFN site?

I was just looking over more of my 1203.4 prepared by the public defender (at the time, I couldn't afford council or to even miss work to come back to San Diego for the 1203.4 hearing). It almost looks to me like my P.D. just let it fly and pass. Where the judge decided to add on a lifetime ban, I am unsure.

From my 1203.4

" (Memorandum of points and authorities)

Defendant, (ME), by and through his attorney the Public Defender of the County of San Diego, respectfully submits the following Memorandum of Points and Authorities in support of his motion to set aside his plea of guilty and dismiss the information.

(Facts and Procedural History)

(ME) was convicted by plea on XX/XX/1997, of PC Section 12280(b), Possession of an Assault. At sentencing, XX/XX/1997, the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor and (ME) was granted three years summary probation. The terms of probation included that he pay a fine of $X (<$500) and restitution in the amount of $X (<$500) and not possess a firearm.

(HE) has fulfilled all the terms and conditions of his probation. He is not now serving a sentence for any offense, on probation for any offense, or charged with the commission of any new offense."

I can only assume that the judge decided that the verbiage constituted a lifetime ban, or just felt like it, and my PD didn't care? Although I really remember that them telling me my rights are suspended while on probation? And that this altercation was the only thing I had ever been in trouble for, the misdemeanor charge would allow my rights to be returned to me if I did good and stayed a model citizen. Nothing is stated explicitly one way or the other about lifetime ban, it just pops up in the additional notes on the 1203.4?

I look forward to anyone pointing me to a attorney that I can consult that has my interest at heart.

Thanks for the comments. I will go visit CFN and see what I can find, although I thought it was more of a wiki?

I'll save putting any more details out on the net, but figured this was enough to get conversation started and find someone with some recommendations on who to start to look for council.

wildhawker
10-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Not sure where you are located, but there are two law firms (1 ea norcal/socal) at www.calgunsfoundation.org under "Hotline".

psmith
10-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Not sure where you are located, but there are two law firms (1 ea norcal/socal) at www.calgunsfoundation.org under "Hotline".

San Deigo, East County

frankDmole
10-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Give them a call or email, doesn't hurt to try.
If you have a firearm-related legal issue, please call us at (800) 556-2109

or send an email to hotline@calgunsfdn.org

JSilvoso
10-22-2010, 12:59 PM
If you have any doubt concerning your ability to possess firearms you can have Cal DOJ run your background and determine whether you can possess firearms using the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) form from the California Department of Justice website at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

From what you are saying it sounds like your case was reduced to a misdemeanor from a felony 12280(b) conviction. In that instance you SHOULD be eligible.

A dismissal under 1203.4 does nothing to restore firearm rights.

dantodd
10-22-2010, 1:03 PM
Joe's advice is excellent. First find out if you are, in fact, prohibited in the eyes of the DOJ. If so, you can then proceed to find an attorney to help you deal with the issue.

psmith
10-22-2010, 1:11 PM
Thanks, did the scan on Tuesday for the AIT and will send the forms in.

OleCuss
10-22-2010, 1:32 PM
BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, JSilvoso is one of the great lawyers with Michel and Associates. Good folk from everything I've seen and heard.

psmith
10-22-2010, 2:06 PM
If you have any doubt concerning your ability to possess firearms you can have Cal DOJ run your background and determine whether you can possess firearms using the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) form from the California Department of Justice website at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

From what you are saying it sounds like your case was reduced to a misdemeanor from a felony 12280(b) conviction. In that instance you SHOULD be eligible.

A dismissal under 1203.4 does nothing to restore firearm rights.



I know the expungement does nothing for 2a rights, what I am hoping to concentrate on is the fact that the original felony was reduced to a misdemeanor, which I understand that a clean record leading to the 12280(b) can help make a wobbler. At the time of the plea, I was under the impression that the firearms restrictions listed were part of the probation. And that eventually the misdemeanor reduction would be the difference over the felony.

The 1203.4 paperwork says on it that my plea is changed to not guilty but does not give me my rights back...., *BINGO*, I think I might have just understood this, the EXCEPT statement on the 1203.4 is NOT directed at me or my situation, but on the form so that people with felony's that get them expunged don't think they get their 2a rights back, its not on there validating or UN-validating my rights, the reduction to a misdemeanor is what gives me my rights back and thats implied rather than mentioned.?

One quick question, if my guilty plea was changed to a misdemeanor at sentencing, yet a 1203.4 was filed, that doesn't make sense? a 1203.4 is only valid for reducing a felony to a misdemeanor? or a 1203.4 is for changing a plea from guilty to not guilty.

Sounds like I have enough of a case here to warrant spending some money retaining someone, as opposed to having someone tell me I have no chance at all.

bwiese
10-22-2010, 2:21 PM
Sounds like I have enough of a case here to warrant spending some money retaining someone....

Absolutely. I think you're in a resolvable Catch 22.

The AW charge from your writing a misdemeanor when you plead guilty as opposed to post-sentencing reduction. (Note however expungement doesn't restore rights.)

Since the most excellent Joe Silvoso has already courteously replied and now has some inkling of your matter and I'm sure has handled these matters with panache before, perhaps you two shoulld work together - you folks are not that far from each other.

psmith
10-22-2010, 4:39 PM
If you have any doubt concerning your ability to possess firearms you can have Cal DOJ run your background and determine whether you can possess firearms using the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) form from the California Department of Justice website at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

From what you are saying it sounds like your case was reduced to a misdemeanor from a felony 12280(b) conviction. In that instance you SHOULD be eligible.

A dismissal under 1203.4 does nothing to restore firearm rights.

quick scan question.

I did a scan Tuesday for a criminal background check for personal use. I went to the DOJ and got a certificate of elgibility form and filled it out, and then used the same lifescan # from the background check. OPPS, I should have read your post better and looked at the PFEC form.

Will they do the same thing? Or did I just waste 22 bucks on the COE form?

Joe. I am waiting for a check from my employer for a trip I did business on, once I have the cash, I will probably be giving you a call when I can afford a retainer.

Thank you everyone, I appreciate all the suggestions, I guess monitoring this thread is still a good idea, I spaced the PFEC and did a COE, so I dont know what the differences are, but my neighbor is a notary, so I also did the PFEC. Will let everyone know results. (I know it can take forever, but Im pretty sure if the criminal background comes back ONLY mentioning a misdemeanor, this is a slam dunk, and basically a lawyer will be able to fix)

JSilvoso
10-23-2010, 11:08 AM
1203.4, while it's called an "expungement," doesn't really expunge anything. The paperwork typically reads that your "guilty/no contest plea was vacated, a plea of not guilty was entered, and the case was dismissed" (or words to that effect, different court clerks write it up differently). That really doesn't do a whole lot for you. The conviction still shows up on a background check, law enforcement can still see it when they run your RAP sheet, your prior conviction acts as a "past prior" for future charges (if you conviction is "priorable"). You are able to say on a job application that you have never been convicted but still have to disclose the conviction when applying for a state license, running for public office, or contracting with the state lottery. A REDUCTION is a whole other Penal Code section, 17. And a charge may be reduced at a number of different times: by the DA by modifying the complaint which they can do anytime (arguably) prior to plea/conviction; by the court after prelim or at time of sentencing; by the court after the conviction (to name a few). Of course, the charge has to be reduceable, meaning it can be punished with county jail time or state prison time AND it depends on the sentence you received. If the offense is punishable ONLY with state PRISON time it can't be reduced or if you were sentenced TO state PRISON time that also can't be reduced.

To answer your question: a COE should work. A COE (certifiacte of eligibility) is what is required before a person can work at a gun store. It determines whether a person can possess firearms, and essentially does the same thing as the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC).

psmith
10-23-2010, 3:30 PM
Thanks to everyone that was willing to chime in, although I don't think I will hear anything back in time to allow me to go hunting in Colorado this November with my buddy, I think I may actually be going next year, and putting Elk in my NEW crosshairs by this time next year.

After reading what I have here, and trying to understand it, I was able to actually find some more information on my sentencing.

Pages 9 and 10 of a 30 page document looked to me like they were the same form, and I thought they looked alike, I recently was able to read the chicken scratch and realize the 2nd one was the original sentencing, back in 11/1997. The 1st one was the after probation and my 1203.4 request. Its the wording there that had confused me.

11/1997 paper:
The "other" section on the bottom of the form is where it is hand written by the judge.

It says;
"This matter is declared a misdemeanor per PC 17b.
Probation costs are waived
Not possess a firearm
Volunteer work is deleted"

I am led to assume that the not posses firearm is part of my probation which is also mentioned higher up on the form under my restitution and penalty assessments.

On the 01/2001 paperwork.
"Deft's motion to reduce charge to a misd pursuant to PC 17(b)(3) is granted
Deft's PC1203.4 Petition is granted -
Order signed and filed"

(I still don't understand why 1/2001 summary says my "charge is reduced to a misd pursuant to PC 17(b)(3) is granted"... as the original paperwork already says at sentencing my charge was reduced to a misdemeanor per 17B at the time of probation be granted)

Anyways,

#1 I'll wait for my criminal background check (to verify original charge was a 17(b) reduction) and if it isn't, I assume I need a lawyer to fix this for me.

#2. I'll wait for my PFEC and/or COE to come back, and if I find that I am denied, I guess again, its time to retain a lawyer to figure out why I dont have 2A rights and why the DOJ doesn't have it as it should be, If I am supposed to have 2A rights, a lawyer can help me get all this fixed right?

jtmkinsd
10-23-2010, 3:51 PM
Correct me if I am wrong.

The misdemeanor carries with it a 10 year ban on owning/possessing firearms...and typically judges do put the "Except" statement in the expungement so the 10 year ban stays in effect. But the expungement does keep him from being a "prohibited person" on a Federal level. So all he would have to do is wait the 10 years, and he should be good to go for owning/possessing firearms. Correct?

J-cat
10-23-2010, 4:17 PM
It says;
"This matter is declared a misdemeanor per PC 17b.
Probation costs are waived
Not possess a firearm
Volunteer work is deleted"

I am led to assume that the not posses firearm is part of my probation which is also mentioned higher up on the form under my restitution and penalty assessments.

On the 01/2001 paperwork.
"Deft's motion to reduce charge to a misd pursuant to PC 17(b)(3) is granted
Deft's PC1203.4 Petition is granted -
Order signed and filed"



As long as your 1997 paperwork shows it to be a misdemeanor you should be GTG. The 2001 language is just an affirmation of the original judgment.

Ron-Solo
10-23-2010, 11:24 PM
Get with a good firearms lawyer as soon as you can afford it. As a LEO, I've looked at a lot of these things when approving arrests as a watch commander. The way I intrepret what you have posted, it looks like the firearms resrtiction was only while you were on probation, which is pretty common.

You need the aid of a good lawyer to navigate this, but I think you will have better luck than you think.

Good luck

Ron

MP301
10-24-2010, 2:26 PM
Get with a good firearms lawyer as soon as you can afford it. As a LEO, I've looked at a lot of these things when approving arrests as a watch commander. The way I intrepret what you have posted, it looks like the firearms resrtiction was only while you were on probation, which is pretty common.

You need the aid of a good lawyer to navigate this, but I think you will have better luck than you think.

Good luck

Ron

Ron is most likely spot on. It is common for them to remind you that during your probation having guns is a no go (a lot of times it says no weapons of asny kind). And, I dont see anything about a 10 year prhiobition ( Its been longer then 10 years anyway ) unless its in a statute somewhere.

Please let us know what happens....

SFgiants105
10-24-2010, 2:53 PM
If you have any doubt concerning your ability to possess firearms you can have Cal DOJ run your background and determine whether you can possess firearms using the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) form from the California Department of Justice website at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

From what you are saying it sounds like your case was reduced to a misdemeanor from a felony 12280(b) conviction. In that instance you SHOULD be eligible.

A dismissal under 1203.4 does nothing to restore firearm rights.

I was about to say this, but saw it on my way down to the quick reply box.:D

psmith
10-26-2010, 1:37 AM
All forms sent in (PFEC, COE, Criminal Record Check), now time to sit and wait, I will let everyone know the outcome when I have one, THANKS for the encouragement and the pointers. I think I have a good idea of where to go if I have to go somewhere. *Sure* would be nice to NOT have to spend my hard earned money correcting a paperwork error, but if you have to, you have too.

(quick other comment) I even talked to my sister today, whom I share ownership on a tow-able camping trailer with. Seems she has not renewed the vehicle registration and since she doesn't plan on using it this year, she had planned on taking the 60 dollar late fee and making the payment when she could afford it, seeing as fee's don't increase after 60 days late (I guess 0-30 = $w, 31-60 = $x, 61-90 = $y, and >91 days = $z). I'm not sure what a registration of vehicle issue will do to my findings, so I wrote a check for the trailer registration and asked her to mail it this afternoon. Sure hope that a certificate of eligibility or PFEC wouldn't come back negative because of a DMV issue like a DROS would?

psmith
10-29-2010, 6:06 PM
I'm still waiting on my PFEC and/or Cert Of Eligibility. Also, my father offered to give me some time with his attorney in Orange County for a couple of hours, they are friends and he offered to look at my paperwork via email. So I haven't replied or talked to him since, but he emailed me back stating that the paperwork I sent him, shows that ultimately my felony was reduced to a misdemeanor and my misdemeanor wasn't a prohibiting charge, so my rights should be restored and good to go.

I got back my criminal background check today, and I believe it says that that I WAS charged with a felony, and I don't see anything on it showing that is was changed, reduced, or cleared up. Of course, without any legal knowledge / training, who knows if what I am reading is what I am reading. I am starting to save my money now so that I can hire on one of the advocate lawyers recommended, but in the meantime, since I already posted this and have gotten much response, I wanted to ask a question hoping Joe and/or Ron or one of the other professionally qualified (arm chair lawyers welcomed, as are "this happened to me and ......." responses just the same, would attempt to answer it.

I have attached the original minutes - pronouncement of judgment because it is where my questions stem from, and where I think that the DOJ may have it wrong??

On the Criminal Minutes - Pronouncement of Judgment, (my sentencing basically and my understanding) it clearly states in the notes section:

"This matter is declared A misdemeanor per PC 17b."

(see the attachment), this would leave me to believe NO FELONY conviction took place, at all, it was changed prior to sentencing (considering this is the Pronouncement of Judgment).

Yet, on the criminal report I just got from DOJ, it reads:

12280(b) PC-POSSESS ANY ASSAULT WEAPON
*DISPO:CONVICTED
CONV STATUS: FELONY
SEN: 3 YEARS PROBATION, 1 DAYS JAIL

Am I reading or understanding something wrong? (I included the entire DOJ background report (it says page 1 of 2, but page 2 is blank).

It also includes a CLAIM OF ALLEGED INACCURACY OR INCOMPLETENESS, and asks for information and a brief explanation, and asks to attach any official documents or court orders that would verify my claim?

#1, Am I reading the background check wrong? I dont see anything mentioning the 2nd reduction to a misdemeanor per 17(b)(3) that exists on yet another Pronouncement of Judgment form from my paperwork from after probation, BUT, shouldn't it NOT even include the CONV STATUS:FELONY on the form per the original sentencing information stating matter declared a misdemeanor per PC 17b, and say something like CONV STATUS:MISDEMEANOR or MISDEMEANOR PER PC17(b) or something like that?

#2, should I be filling out the inaccuracy form and attaching both my pronouncement of judgments to the DOJ attempting to get the original CONV STATUS changed, and if not that, at least something from the 2nd judgment where it says on the form "Defendants motion to reduce charge to a misdemeanor pursuant to PC 17(b)(3) is granted"


I suppose that everything that I am saying is actually stated on the criminal report and I just cant read it correctly or am missing something? Any ways, the lawyer last night told me that I should have my gun rights back, etc, etc. Just like most people chiming in here, and who knows if I do or don't, still waiting on the PFEC and COE I sent out, but I have been told by plenty of forum people that what the DOJ has on file is often incorrect because the courts make no effort to get it right when it comes to "helping" you, and that plenty of times people have to put lots of effort into getting it right.

Really hoping Joe or someone reads the criminal report and clarifies it for me
or at least can offer a suggestion. Sure felt good thinking that the criminal record was going to come back not mentioning the felony because it was never sentenced a felony, and that everything was going to be okay. I did happen to find some correspondence between my and my lawyer, where I wrote him telling him how important trying to keep my gun rights would be in a family that shoots skeet, hunts, and all that. (I was in the hospital for a diabetic coma about 3 weeks after my arrest, and for the first 6 weeks or so, we talked via USPS Mail), and his response was along the lines that since it was a wobbler and this was the first trouble I had ever gotten into, that real good odds that it would go down to a misdemeanor with a possible plea bargain, and he would try his best to work on helping me keep those rights in the long run. I thought about calling him, and did, but unfortunately, 4 years ago, he passed away in a car crash. I didn't dig any further there, just gave the lady who answered his cellular number my "condolences" and moved on.

Thanks guys..

J-cat
10-29-2010, 7:34 PM
Rap sheets are often wrong. Get the abstract of judgment and go back to court.

psmith
10-29-2010, 7:40 PM
I'm assuming by abstract you mean all the paperwork I went down to the court house and picked up (part of what I am attaching above), like the Minutes and Pronouncement of Judgment with the Superior Court judges signatures and all that, then go down back to the court and do what? Is there a way to request my paperwork be updated at DOJ? Or do I really need to pay a lawyer to do this part for me? (I'm not afraid of hard work, just as long as its got instructions to follow and not cryptic filled with options allowing interpretation and assumptions? <- supposed to be funny)

J-cat
10-29-2010, 8:11 PM
The abstract of judgment looks like this (no this one ain't mine):

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/Tampicoabstract.gif

J-cat
10-29-2010, 8:26 PM
Submit the 8706 form with the corrected abstract to DOJ:

If you feel the information contained within your criminal history record is incorrect, you may submit a formal challenge to the Department of Justice only after you have received a copy of your record from the Department pursuant to California Penal Code sections 11120 – 11127. Bureau of Criminal Identification and Information (BCII) form 8706, “Claim of Inaccuracy or Incompleteness” will be mailed to you along with your record. Submit form 8706 and any supporting documentation to the Department of Justice to the address provided on the form. The challenge will be reviewed and a written response will be provided along with an amended copy of your criminal history record if appropriate.

psmith
10-30-2010, 8:38 AM
I'm not finding any links on where to get a abstract for criminal judgments (plenty for small claims stuff). I think I asked, but will the pronouncement of judgment form work? (it has a judges signature on it, and its written on it that its declared a misdemeanor), I attached it to the above, take a look?

loather
10-30-2010, 9:51 AM
(no this one ain't mine)

I'd sure hope not! Short-Eyes baaaad!!

psmith
11-01-2010, 10:12 AM
thought I would add some to this thread. Just more info, might help some others.

I went to the court house to try to get a abstract of judgment, learned that (at least in Southern California) a abstract of judgment is put together when you do time. As I wasn't even sentenced to any time (whether it was served or put aside), it didn't exist for me.

I talked to the lady at the desk, who surprisingly was extremely nice and seemed interested in what I was saying (a pleasant surprise at that). I gave her my case # and told her that I should have been convicted of a misdemeanor, which she looked up and confirmed, and asked me what the problem was. I told her my background check shows a felony conviction on it, where she looked at the recent printout (10/22/2010) and tried to understand what was listed, where she confirmed that it didn't look right. She went and got my original court paperwork and started in with the piece of paper that I signed and initialed on the felony charge (pleading guilty), I then told her to please look at my sentencing, as part of my plea was consideration of reduction to a misdemeanor. She found the handwritten notes on the "Court Minutes - Pronouncement of Judgment" from sentencing day and said what I knew, you plead guilty to a felony, but at sentencing it was reduced to a misdemeanor, then they even still had it wrong, and at the expungment hearing, they reduced it AGAIN to misdemeanor before expungement. And how come none of this was in the DOJ report. So she went and took all my paperwork to her supervisor, who confirmed the mistakes and they made changes to my DOJ report as I stood there. She came back telling me that about 11 years ago, they changed the way that the reports are in the database, and when my "entry" was transfered to the new database, it looks like all the extra information got chopped off and since no one has ever complained or checked against it, it just stayed in the system wrong". She followed that up with, "or someone just didn't care enough to put in the information correctly". WOW, something that serious, something that follows you forever, I am just glad to have it all corrected.

The moral of the story here is that running a background check if you have ever done anything stupid, isn't a bad idea, I havent had my 2A rights for 9 years because of a typo.

At least that is what I think, I asked her if this was going to change my firearm possession rights (I know they cant really comment), she showed me the new entry in the DOJ paperwork on the on-line screen, where it contained the information that my charge was reduced to a misdemeanor, and said that It would be updated at midnight. I still had a little bit of concern, because if you have been following this, although I signed the felony guilty paperwork, at sentencing it was a misdemeanor, which I believe to be quite a bit different than, charge with a felony, and then later reduced to a misdemeanor. I guess all I really care about is getting my rights back.

I wonder if the PFEC or COE forms that I have sent out in the last 14 days are going to catch this new information, this might be one of those times where the delay and lag actually works to my advantage. Ever since I started this process, I have been eyeballing a new .223 lower, maybe I just just go run the DROS form. As I know now that I can legally answer the questions in the #12 area with the necessary "no" answers, its looking good, but may not be finished yet.

I certainly hope that my misfortune and stupidity can help anyone out there who thinks a bullet button is stupid, buying multiple 10 round mags and a good bullet button is a WHOLE hell of a lot easier and cheaper than not doing it...

will keep more updates coming.

psmith
11-01-2010, 2:37 PM
Ok guys, one more question someone else who has had this experience might be able to help me with.

If you read above, you will see that this morning I was successful in getting a supervisor from the criminal offices help me update my record. The clerk helping me, showed me on her terminal what the new entries were and how it read now. She finished it off by stating that the system wouldn't update until midnight. She made no reference to the fact that she was editing internal court documents or the DOJ database. She made no reference to me needing to submit the changed paperwork to the DOJ, leaving me to believe that she was in the DOJ database. A friend who works in the traffic division in San Francisco lead me to believe that the terminals at the court house, don't have the ability to interact with the DOJ database, and that the changes were probably made in the court system. (It was my criminal background or rap sheet she was editing, I didn't know that the courts kept those type records in there database). She said nothing about contacting DOJ, or didn't "print" out the updated paperwork she was working on. Is it possible that what she is working on will just be submitted to DOJ? Does anyone experienced this personally to know how the dots get connected? Or am I treading new water here?

Thanks again.

J-cat
11-01-2010, 7:52 PM
She was updating the court's record. Court clerks do not make entries in DOJ's database. You will need to get an anstract of judgment from the court and send it to DOJ with the 8706 form.

psmith
11-02-2010, 5:56 AM
Okay, I am glad that I already mailed the forms that I mailed. I was told both her and her supervisor that abstract of judgment's are created for files/binders when people are sentenced jail time so warden/jail staff have a condensed all in one form to refer to. She said for civil, a JOA is also available with compensation paperwork for the same purpose, a all in one sheet for the person collecting money to have what they need against the party. Seems like would be a nice easy way for me to have it all in one place too, but she wasn't offering it up. :)

No worries, the same paperwork her and her supervisor looked at, is what I sent to the DOJ, should work, if not then I'm sure a print out of the courts records (why she didn't give me what she was typing I'm not sure in that case then?)

Thanks for following and the responses, much appreciated j-cat.

psmith
11-03-2010, 8:47 AM
FYI: I went down to the court house again this morning. Again, they couldn't produce anything more than the paperwork I already had, and I got a confirmation from the clerk that yes, every night their updates are pushed and the DOJ files are updated. I talked to a different person at the same location. Just to triple check, I called the East County Superior Court of San Diego, and navigated into the Felony/DUI/In-Custody section and then hit the button to talk to a real human. I explained the situation one more time, and while on the phone, she looked up my case number, confirmed that what I was saying was what it said (she couldn't confirm it was changed, as it was changed, so the old stuff wasn't even there anymore), and that at midnight, their system integrates additions and changes with the DOJ system.

Maybe its new? I can only trust that after two visits, and a phone-call that technology has finally visited our County Court house?

Just thought I should mention it, who knows if someone else is reading this getting information for themselves? I already mailed the court minutes-pronouncement of judgment along with the 8706 form, which I understand will initiate another copy of my new report as well as a summary of whats happened from the DOJ. I'm pretty sure that upon receipt of this, I will be able to understand if when they received my 8706 and paperwork and made the changes, or that the updates were already there. I would assume that if the changes were not there, I would get a "changes have been made as of X, here is your new report", OR, I could get back a, "your current report already reflected this? What is it your trying to change?"

Thanks again everyone, all the PM's have been interesting and good reads.

psmith
11-09-2010, 3:51 PM
I went down to the court house one more time, and talked to a supervisor, I really wanted to make sure that the fixed records were going to be sent to the DOJ, if not electronically, at least on paper. I was greeted by a supervisor who told me that my understanding of how the process works is correct, *BUT* that since the DOJ is so backed up right now, that if the clerk wants to (they are not obligated too she said), but if they want to, there is a DOJ number they can call, inform the DOJ that a faxed update of the court records is going to be faxed, where they can then fax it and get a confirmation from the DOJ that they got it. I guess my manners and being respectful through the whole thing helped me out, not only did she call me to tell me she was faxing it, she called me to confirm that they got it, and one last time to tell me they (the DOJ) made the updates and the record was corrected. I just got the last call yesterday. I still haven't gotten my PFEC or COE back, but I was told those could take months. Since I knew 12 days ago that I was legal to own firearms, 10 days ago I went down to the local store and bought a lower. I just checked with them now, and its ready to be picked UP!!!!! BIG *** SMILE...

Thank you to everyone, I only hope that my rambling and information about what I did can help someone else. 21 days ago I had given up on ever owning firearms again, ever hunting with my family, and dreading that I was going to have to watch someone else teach MY SON how to hunt and treat firearms with respect that he father should be showing him. Maybe this thread will also let someone who is on the boundary of doing something stupid or risking something (say, a hi cap mag) that ITS NOT WORTH IT. I KNOW HOW STUPID it is, but welcome to the Republic of Kalifornia, at least we can still have our rights given to us as privileges.



Thanks to all again...

jtmkinsd
11-09-2010, 11:55 PM
I went down to the court house one more time, and talked to a supervisor, I really wanted to make sure that the fixed records were going to be sent to the DOJ, if not electronically, at least on paper. I was greeted by a supervisor who told me that my understanding of how the process works is correct, *BUT* that since the DOJ is so backed up right now, that if the clerk wants to (they are not obligated too she said), but if they want to, there is a DOJ number they can call, inform the DOJ that a faxed update of the court records is going to be faxed, where they can then fax it and get a confirmation from the DOJ that they got it. I guess my manners and being respectful through the whole thing helped me out, not only did she call me to tell me she was faxing it, she called me to confirm that they got it, and one last time to tell me they (the DOJ) made the updates and the record was corrected. I just got the last call yesterday. I still haven't gotten my PFEC or COE back, but I was told those could take months. Since I knew 12 days ago that I was legal to own firearms, 10 days ago I went down to the local store and bought a lower. I just checked with them now, and its ready to be picked UP!!!!! BIG *** SMILE...

Thank you to everyone, I only hope that my rambling and information about what I did can help someone else. 21 days ago I had given up on ever owning firearms again, ever hunting with my family, and dreading that I was going to have to watch someone else teach MY SON how to hunt and treat firearms with respect that he father should be showing him. Maybe this thread will also let someone who is on the boundary of doing something stupid or risking something (say, a hi cap mag) that ITS NOT WORTH IT. I KNOW HOW STUPID it is, but welcome to the Republic of Kalifornia, at least we can still have our rights given to us as privileges.



Thanks to all again...

Congratulations...I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end. It's amazing how a mistake in the past can haunt you years down the road...but being patient, and not losing your cool will get you a long way. :D

johnthomas
11-10-2010, 12:28 AM
Now you can go hunting with your friend. Tell him to get on Calguns and see why, lol. Congratulations on being so tenacious with your rights. What I don't get is, look at all those folks that have the very same rights you fought so hard for that will never, ever use them.

J-cat
11-10-2010, 6:41 AM
Congratulations. Glad it worked out.

taperxz
11-10-2010, 7:33 AM
It is my understanding that even those people who loose their rights to own a firearm are still eligible to hunt with a bow. Congrats on your outcome!!

zinfull
11-10-2010, 7:34 AM
Good job on clearing your record. If you are hunting in Colorado you may need to take a NRA safe hunting course in order to get a license.

jerry

nicitaja
11-10-2010, 8:29 AM
Good Job P,

I told you you cant go wrong with CG and CGF, dont forget to help with the contributions when you can. I sat back and watched the whole thing evolve on you, pretty proud of ya cousin.... NOW, lets hope someone who crosses into Vegas and thinks nothing really serious can happen when bringing that hi-cap mag back home, had a chance to read this and see how for 14 years you havent been able to go shooting with the family, or teach your son proper gun etiquete, and thinks twice about it, they take your rights away in a moment, and not everyone gets lucky enough to get them back.

Hell, I HAVE large cap mags from grandpa given to me in the late 90's, know you know why I dont even risk it and run them, I'll just stop for 15 seconds and reload, a lot cheaper than a lawyer and missed work from incarceration, thats for sure... :)


;)

loather
11-11-2010, 8:49 AM
This is an excellent story. I'm glad you were able to regain your rights after having to deal with such a garbage charge.

I'm also glad that you're building another AR just to spite the talking heads in the state. :)

Congratulations!

jeferd
11-11-2010, 9:23 AM
Boy, it shows that intelligent persistence pays off...nice job. What a great forum and insight from all the members here....Thanks Calguns!!