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View Full Version : For a non-2a take: Brown vs Whitman article at Reason.


D.R.E.
10-22-2010, 12:04 AM
http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/20/sacramento-ber-alles

The lede:
Elections between Republicans and Democrats usually come down to a barely discernible difference between two shades of lawyer, but the race for governor of California presents a rare clear choice: one candidate who knows nothing about government versus one who knows nothing except government.

It’s not clear which option is worse. But the candidates’ official policy positions suggest not just how different, but how equally unsatisfying, Republican Meg Whitman and Democrat Jerry Brown are.

OleCuss
10-22-2010, 3:33 AM
Pretty good article.

hammerhands32
10-22-2010, 6:30 AM
Here one calguns we are one issue voters. Didn't you know that? You say you like guns we vote for.you.

turbosbox
10-22-2010, 8:01 AM
Here one calguns we are one issue voters. Didn't you know that? You say you like guns we vote for.you.

Not exactly the case. CG can help determine which folks are more 2A friendly based on previous decisions and discussions, but each reader will make their own decisions. I see only a few who say they are "one issue" voters. I guess that is better than "no issue" voters who simply push the (D) or (R) buttons :(

choprzrul
10-22-2010, 8:14 AM
3 trillion dollars more debt later, we see what Democratic controlled legislative chambers and Democratic executive branches will get us. You want more of the same @ the state level? Go ahead and vote for Jerry Brown. If you think CA has problems now, wait until there is a rubber stamp in the governors office.

.

Librarian
10-22-2010, 8:50 AM
http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/20/sacramento-ber-alles

The lede:
Elections between Republicans and Democrats usually come down to a barely discernible difference between two shades of lawyer, but the race for governor of California presents a rare clear choice: one candidate who knows nothing about government versus one who knows nothing except government.

It’s not clear which option is worse. But the candidates’ official policy positions suggest not just how different, but how equally unsatisfying, Republican Meg Whitman and Democrat Jerry Brown are.

Meta-comment: For the copyright-worriers among us, this looks about right - a link and a short 'teaser' quote.
Yes, interesting article.

SideWinder11
10-22-2010, 9:32 AM
3 trillion dollars more debt later, we see what Democratic controlled legislative chambers and Democratic executive branches will get us. You want more of the same @ the state level? Go ahead and vote for Jerry Brown. If you think CA has problems now, wait until there is a rubber stamp in the governors office.

.

Amen brother!

sholling
10-22-2010, 9:34 AM
It’s not clear which option is worse. But the candidates’ official policy positions suggest not just how different, but how equally unsatisfying, Republican Meg Whitman and Democrat Jerry Brown are.[/INDENT]
I think Reason is pretty right on. California needs close to 1 million more private sector jobs just to get us down to 5.5% unemployment. But that doesn't take into account an equal number that have lost full time jobs and have either given up looking or are working part time and no longer counted. That means we need to add almost two million more good full time private sector jobs just to get California back to normal. Does anyone really think that higher taxes and more regulation will accomplish that?

SideWinder11
10-22-2010, 9:38 AM
I think Reason is pretty right on. California needs close to 1 million more private sector jobs just to get us down to 5.5% unemployment. But that doesn't take into account an equal number that have lost full time jobs and have either given up looking or are working part time and no longer counted. That means we need to add almost two million more good full time private sector jobs just to get California back to normal. Does anyone really think that higher taxes and more regulation will accomplish that?

I don't :D

mikiehorn
10-22-2010, 9:43 AM
I'm old enough to remember Brown's last gig as guber ... Remember Rose Bird appointed by brown- the California Supreme Court justice who wouldn't allow any executions (and was impeached).

Remember Roseann Turcott - the Brown appointee who as head of Caltrans never built a highway during her 8 years in office to push us into non-existent mass transit and layed off the entire planning engineering staff of Caltrans?

Remember mayor Brown of Oakland-violent crime central-deliberately understaffing OPD ...

Remember guber 'moonbeam' ... ah yes - calling out the National Guard to fight the Med fruit fly ... the 'good old days' ...

Meg Whitman - Arnold in a dress - hold your nose and vote for who stinks the least. If it comes down to 2A - it may be the only defining issue! Brown is no fan of the 2A. (jmho)

D.R.E.
10-22-2010, 10:10 AM
3 trillion dollars more debt later, we see what Democratic controlled legislative chambers and Democratic executive branches will get us. You want more of the same @ the state level? Go ahead and vote for Jerry Brown. If you think CA has problems now, wait until there is a rubber stamp in the governors office.

.

Oh man, I wish Bush had only done a 3 trillion in debt. Unfortunately, R is just as bad (sometimes worse!) than D. "Fiscal conservative" is something that appears in quotes rather than office these days.

For what it's worth, as JB stated after killing a bunch of D projects: "I am cheap". He actually ran on a flat tax(!) platform in 1992.

lugar
10-22-2010, 10:18 AM
Brown believes and has said in black and white and signed it that California is a leader in common sense gun laws. The members here that support Brown are liberals trying to hide behind Brown's amicus brief as a reason. They would support him no matter what. The brief made 0 difference.
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

We have a huge problem in CA concerning gerrymandering. The districts are going to be redrawn after the census numbers are crunched. If we put another liberal wacko in office we will again get districts that eliminate any chance of fair elections. They do it by diluting conservative areas.
Also the dirty tricks dems have made postage for mail in ballots .61 cents. If you vote by mail with less than .61 cents postage (which is not getting much media coverage) your ballot will be returned to you uncounted after election day. No vote for you!

2A is not on the ballot but redistricting is. Higher taxes are. Union giveaways are. Fair elections are. Continued corruption is.

Voting for Whitman is not a perfect solution, just a better one.

IGOTDIRT4U
10-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Brown believes and has said in black and white and signed it that California is a leader in common sense gun laws. The members here that support Brown are liberals trying to hide behind Brown's amicus brief as a reason. They would support him no matter what. The brief made 0 difference.
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

We have a huge problem in CA concerning gerrymandering. The districts are going to be redrawn after the census numbers are crunched. If we put another liberal wacko in office we will again get districts that eliminate any chance of fair elections. They do it by diluting conservative areas.
Also the dirty tricks dems have made postage for mail in ballots .61 cents. If you vote by mail with less than .61 cents postage (which is not getting much media coverage) your ballot will be returned to you uncounted after election day. No vote for you!

2A is not on the ballot but redistricting is. Higher taxes are. Union giveaways are. Fair elections are. Continued corruption is.

Voting for Whitman is not a perfect solution, just a better one.

Dems did not make the postage .61, the USPS did. Weigh it. It will show it takes .61 to mail. I just weighed my wife's mail in ballot and the scale told me .62 (it's still in the original mailing envelope).

The ballot is thick, and causes the extra postage. Maybe the Dems voted not to pre-pay postage for mail in ballots, but what gain that is I don't know as it would effect all mail in voters regardless of party.

berto
10-22-2010, 10:38 AM
Brown believes and has said in black and white and signed it that California is a leader in common sense gun laws. The members here that support Brown are liberals trying to hide behind Brown's amicus brief as a reason. They would support him no matter what. The brief made 0 difference.
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

We have a huge problem in CA concerning gerrymandering. The districts are going to be redrawn after the census numbers are crunched. If we put another liberal wacko in office we will again get districts that eliminate any chance of fair elections. They do it by diluting conservative areas.
Also the dirty tricks dems have made postage for mail in ballots .61 cents. If you vote by mail with less than .61 cents postage (which is not getting much media coverage) your ballot will be returned to you uncounted after election day. No vote for you!

2A is not on the ballot but redistricting is. Higher taxes are. Union giveaways are. Fair elections are. Continued corruption is.

Voting for Whitman is not a perfect solution, just a better one.

I'm voting JB and I'm hardly a liberal. Neither are many other JB supporters here. My vote for JB is based on his 2A support.

As far as JB's common sense line please explain how it differs from Whitman's stance that we have enough gun laws. Why has she refused to answer any questions re: 2A issues?

USPS sets the mail rates. We're absentee ballots ever pre-paid?

Read up on reapportionment. You might consider reading the ballot measure we passed and the ballot measures this year, there are two. You might further consider that we had a republican governor previous times the lines were redrawn.

dantodd
10-22-2010, 11:12 AM
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

A good governor will keep the laws off the books in the first place saving us the time and money of having to take them to court. Look how long the Nordykes have been fighting a bad gun law (11 years) Look how long the Sykes and Pena case have been going.

Governor veto means no bad law, Governor signs and we have to fight for years, sometimes decades to fix it.

bandook
10-22-2010, 11:51 AM
...
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

We have a huge problem in CA concerning gerrymandering. The districts are going to be redrawn after the census numbers are crunched. If we put another liberal wacko in office we will again get districts that eliminate any chance of fair elections. They do it by diluting conservative areas.
Also the dirty tricks dems have made postage for mail in ballots .61 cents. If you vote by mail with less than .61 cents postage (which is not getting much media coverage) your ballot will be returned to you uncounted after election day. No vote for you!

2A is not on the ballot but redistricting is. Higher taxes are. Union giveaways are. Fair elections are. Continued corruption is.

Voting for Whitman is not a perfect solution, just a better one.

If you want to vote for pro illegal immigrant Whitman, fine.
Just don't go around spreading baseless FUD.

Glock22Fan
10-22-2010, 12:28 PM
No governor is going to take away your RKBA. We have SCOTUS on our side.

Only until Obama gets to replace one of five justices :(.

titankeith
10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm voting JB and I'm hardly a liberal. Neither are many other JB supporters here. My vote for JB is based on his 2A support.

As far as JB's common sense line please explain how it differs from Whitman's stance that we have enough gun laws. Why has she refused to answer any questions re: 2A issues?

USPS sets the mail rates. We're absentee ballots ever pre-paid?

Read up on reapportionment. You might consider reading the ballot measure we passed and the ballot measures this year, there are two. You might further consider that we had a republican governor previous times the lines were redrawn.

Interesting that you think Brown supports 2A when the NRA gives him an "F" and American Rifleman give him a "D" score.

ddestruel
10-22-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm voting JB and I'm hardly a liberal. Neither are many other JB supporters here. My vote for JB is based on his 2A support.

As far as JB's common sense line please explain .


I'm sure Jerry has reformed his judge appointing skills, we are still fighting the many appointees and thier rulings that resulted from his last stint in office.

elections have consequences. history repeats itself and people don't change they jsut get better at hiding reality.

read up on the many activist judges he appointed during his last little stint and ask yourself does he appoint based on merit or jsut to repay favors. I'll take my chances on someone new vs someone who actively tried to stuff the courts with irresponsible appointees.

heres how i see it
JB a Govenor who might stop bad legislation but has a proven history of bad decissions and made imho many bad judicial appointments and those in my eyes can be more detrimental to us ijn our pursuit of RKBA in the courtrooms for many years past his term.
or
MW a CEO, that sees things in black in white and cares about numbers, doesnt appear give a flying rats puttootee about the rkba but sure as heck is going to associate legal challenges to the bottom line and is not going to sign legislation that potentially will put the state on teh hook for more legal battles. she might not give me the warm fuzzy feeling or talk sweet nothings in my ear about RKBA but that doesnt mean she doesnt see the bottom line on the issue

judicial appointees are a big question mark but we know how bad JB did in his last stint another 30 years worth of appointees who do thier best to turn things on thier ear. or someone who makes decissions and has promoted/appointed employees based on merit.

hmmmm. i'm so torn yet its all so clear as mud. good thing i lived through this before i know how i am not voting

PEBKAC
10-22-2010, 12:56 PM
Interesting that you think Brown supports 2A when the NRA gives him an "F" and American Rifleman give him a "D" score.
His actions as AG:
Posted yesterday:
I'm no bwiese, but this may come close to what you want. Credit for the info should go to the likes of Hoffmang, bwiese, and artherd.

Some OleCussian reasons to consider Jerry Brown a friend to the RKBA:

1. Divison of Firearms was reduced to a bureau – meaning there is staffing to handle harassing bad guys but not normal law-abiding citizens.
2. Iggy Chin and Randy Rossi were sent packing.
3. Allison Merrilees found it better to work elsewhere.
4. The DOJ Bureau of Firearms has not lobbied for gun control.
5. Brown seems to have discouraged the legislature from passing more restrictions.
6. “Permanence” rule-making is gone.
7. Brown filed the amicus in support of McDonald.
8. Brown killed an anti-gun brief which was headed out the door for Heller.
9. He may have been instrumental in arranging for microstamping to die
10. New regulations seem to have been killed during his AG tenure. Note that OLL's and bullet buttons mean that “AW” style weaponry has proliferated despite the ban.
11. Tried to stop AB962 (quietly, though).
12. Effectively killed a lot of cases against individual citizens. The DA decides to prosecute and the DOJ simply didn't show up to provide the testimony the DA needed for a conviction.
13. Note that the net effect of certain individuals leaving the BOF has been that it is now not a very political organization and is simply people doing the processing of paperwork, requests and the like according to regulations rather than trying to re-interpret to our disadvantage.

To some, actions speak louder than words.

berto
10-22-2010, 1:37 PM
Interesting that you think Brown supports 2A when the NRA gives him an "F" and American Rifleman give him a "D" score.

Many folks blasted the NRA as out of touch on Harry Reid yet now praise the NRA for being on the ball with JB. I make up my own mind.

Actions as AG speak louder than campaign tripe. Here's Meg:


MEG ON SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS
“I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and our clear constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I believe current gun laws need to be enforced but we do not need any new restrictions on gun owners. Their current rights, as set forth in the Second Amendment, must be rigorously protected.”
http://www.megwhitman.com/on_the_record.php


In other words AB962, the safe handgun list, the state AWB, etc. are hunky dorry in Meg land. Did you believe it when Hillary and Obama made statements similar to Meg's? Why belive it now?

Compare JB's tenure as AG where the noose around 2A rights was loosened to Meg's campaign statement on 2A issues and her record at ebay. Tell me how what Jerry actually did for us is somehow worse than what Meg supports.

berto
10-22-2010, 1:48 PM
I'm sure Jerry has reformed his judge appointing skills, we are still fighting the many appointees and thier rulings that resulted from his last stint in office.

elections have consequences. history repeats itself and people don't change they jsut get better at hiding reality.

read up on the many activist judges he appointed during his last little stint and ask yourself does he appoint based on merit or jsut to repay favors. I'll take my chances on someone new vs someone who actively tried to stuff the courts with irresponsible appointees.

heres how i see it
JB a Govenor who might stop bad legislation but has a proven history of bad decissions and made imho many bad judicial appointments and those in my eyes can be more detrimental to us ijn our pursuit of RKBA in the courtrooms for many years past his term.
or
MW a CEO, that sees things in black in white and cares about numbers, doesnt appear give a flying rats puttootee about the rkba but sure as heck is going to associate legal challenges to the bottom line and is not going to sign legislation that potentially will put the state on teh hook for more legal battles. she might not give me the warm fuzzy feeling or talk sweet nothings in my ear about RKBA but that doesnt mean she doesnt see the bottom line on the issue

judicial appointees are a big question mark but we know how bad JB did in his last stint another 30 years worth of appointees who do thier best to turn things on thier ear. or someone who makes decissions and has promoted/appointed employees based on merit.

hmmmm. i'm so torn yet its all so clear as mud. good thing i lived through this before i know how i am not voting

We're playing ball in Fed Court too. And when we're not what makes you sure Meg will appoint the right kind of judges?

Is Meg even a republican? She get's labeled as a RINO. Funny how she couldn't be bothered to even register to vote then somehow the lightbulb went off and she decided to be a republican and run for gov. I'm sure the potentially stacked dem field never entered into her decision.

And the bottom line? Bottom line for Meg is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Selling out 2A as part of a budget deal so she can appear to have done something for CA? I have no doubt.

rabagley
10-22-2010, 2:30 PM
After reading the article, I think Reason just came out grudgingly for Brown. They put out a lot of pros and cons for him and ended with approximately "Meh. Competent."

Meg, on the other hand gets... crickets.

badmonkey
10-22-2010, 3:24 PM
After reading the article, I think Reason just came out grudgingly for Brown. They put out a lot of pros and cons for him and ended with approximately "Meh. Competent."

Meg, on the other hand gets... crickets.

Meg is barely mentioned, and for good reason--her politics are 100% fluff. There's nothing to say.

sholling
10-22-2010, 6:53 PM
For what it's worth, as JB stated after killing a bunch of D projects: "I am cheap".
Keep in mind what those projects were and why he killed them. Hint: If you were stuck in traffic on a jam packed freeway then please send a thank you note to Mister Jerry Brown. That's right Brown killed freeway widening and construction and he didn't do it to save money. He did it because he saw allowing the freeways to clog as a way to prevent growth. People would be forced to live in the inner cities near their jobs instead of suburban living away from the big cities.

ddestruel
10-22-2010, 7:16 PM
Keep in mind what those projects were and why he killed them. Hint: If you were stuck in traffic on a jam packed freeway then please send a thank you note to Mister Jerry Brown. That's right Brown killed freeway widening and construction and he didn't do it to save money. He did it because he saw allowing the freeways to clog as a way to prevent growth. People would be forced to live in the inner cities near their jobs instead of suburban living away from the big cities.

Ha someone who remembers thirty years ago.


As to berto: I'll try something new and risk it vs what Jerry appointed last go around. I know what he'll do and i dont like it one bit. her appointment s are an unknown but still a breath of fresh air with a book keeping perspective. Oakland, and numerous other issues in CA have browns prints all over em, a second term is just doubling down on everything we complain about

sholling
10-23-2010, 7:30 AM
Ha someone who remembers thirty years ago.
Yes I'm old enough to remember and old enough to know when people are praising Brown for thoroughly screwing us because they've bought into his propaganda. Brown's number one priority has always been stopping growth. He ended freeway construction/widening to force people to live in centralized urban zones and he's sued to stop development and he'll continue to try to force everyone into limited urban zones. That's why he's so in love with AB32 and and anti-Prop 23 - he wants the coming gas taxes and toll roads to force people out of cars. He wants to end the commuter society and force everyone on to bicycles and buses. That has always been his number one goal.

The young'ens don't remember Brown's wacky court appointments. Brown's "Roise and the Supremes" gutted Prop 13 protections before the ink was dry. They had no use for the will of the people or the rule of law and imposed their own lefty politics on the state.

We have a choice between two turds but Brown stinks worse.

titankeith
10-27-2010, 3:17 PM
I remember Brown VERY well, and I would NEVER vote for the life-long douchebag beaurocrat that he is. another life-long G-man with no idea how to effectively run the state.