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View Full Version : 81% Lower: The TSA Line Bypass Device


command_liner
10-21-2010, 11:07 AM
Another thread mentioned the procedure for checking firearms when flying on airplanes. It is a bit of a hassle, but it often also zips you to the head of the security line.

What about having a "firearm" specifically designed to get you to the head
of the TSA security line?

Make an "81%" lower. That would be an AR lower with the firing pocket
milled out, at least partially. Also a serial number would be required.
It appears no other work would need to be done: no anodizing, no tapping
of the stock mount, etc. That should bring the price down quite a bit.

Say the cost was $50, and the result was a trip to the front of the security
line at all airports in the US all the time for every flight. Sure, it would
have to be DROSed to you, and you would pay sales tax, and you might
need some sort of case. So final cost might be $100.

Would it be worth $100 to have a permanent "go to the head of the line"
ticket for all US domestic flights?

Diabolus
10-21-2010, 11:12 AM
I would not do it because I think it's irresponsible.

ke6guj
10-21-2010, 11:19 AM
I would not do it because I think it's irresponsible.

what's irresponsible about it? If you are bringing an item that ATF considers a firearm with you, you need to declare it to the airlines. As long as you follow the rules regarding transport, what is the problem? And by just having a receiver and not a complete firearm, if it is stolen/lost, there is less concern that a bad guy could use it for evil, even more so if it is <100% finished.

the_quark
10-21-2010, 11:19 AM
Another thread mentioned the procedure for checking firearms when flying on airplanes. It is a bit of a hassle, but it often also zips you to the head of the security line.


This is flat not true. When you check a firearm (generally; policies vary from airport to airport), you are standing in the checked baggage line, first. If you're a seasoned traveler, you probably wouldn't be otherwise checking bags. Then, you have to wait for a TSA representative to come down to the bag-check area. At SFO, I've had that wait be twenty minutes. The TSA person inspects the firearm, hand-searches the bag it's in, and has you lock the bag. Then, you leave it like all other checked baggage, and get at the end of the line at the security checkpoint, just as you would if you'd checked non-firearms luggage.


What about having a "firearm" specifically designed to get you to the head of the TSA security line?Again, there's no such thing. But, what I have heard of is people who check lots of expensive equipment (e.g., professional photographers) who also check a gun with the equipment specifically to get the TSA to pay "extra attention" to the equipment bags. The preferred item to do this with is a starter pistol - in most (all?) states, it's not a firearm for possession purposes, but TSA treats it exactly like a functioning firearm.

madmike
10-21-2010, 11:34 AM
Why not just bring a 100% lower, or a Glock, or whatever you already have? Keep in mind that there are(for now) still places where you could get into a legal bind if you were to have a firearm in your possession without the proper permits or paperwork. I think New Jersey was one of them. It probably wouldn't matter if it was just barely, technically a firearm.

-madmike.

madmike
10-21-2010, 11:36 AM
This is flat not true. When you check a firearm (generally; policies vary from airport to airport), you are standing in the checked baggage line, first. If you're a seasoned traveler, you probably wouldn't be otherwise checking bags. Then, you have to wait for a TSA representative to come down to the bag-check area. At SFO, I've had that wait be twenty minutes. The TSA person inspects the firearm, hand-searches the bag it's in, and has you lock the bag. Then, you leave it like all other checked baggage, and get at the end of the line at the security checkpoint, just as you would if you'd checked non-firearms luggage.

Again, there's no such thing. But, what I have heard of is people who check lots of expensive equipment (e.g., professional photographers) who also check a gun with the equipment specifically to get the TSA to pay "extra attention" to the equipment bags. The preferred item to do this with is a starter pistol - in most (all?) states, it's not a firearm for possession purposes, but TSA treats it exactly like a functioning firearm.



I guess this kinda moots my previous post, so nevermind.
:o

-madmike.

adamsreeftank
10-21-2010, 11:49 AM
It won't help you get through faster, but if you want a reason to lock your luggage, a flare gun will also work. No FFL required and cheaper than a starter pistol.

wash
10-21-2010, 11:51 AM
I've traveled with a 100% glock frame, 100% AR lower and a 100% bolt action rifle (minus stock and bolt) for the purpose of wanting to lock my case.

The TSA theives get to see what's in your bag on an X-ray machine before they go over to your legally required un-locked or fake TSA locked bag and take whatever they want.

If you take a gun you can use real locks and if your whole bag disapears, tell the police, airport lockdown, call the media, then kick back and laugh.

The TSA guys know they would get caught if they stole it, the baggage handlers know it too, if they see a real lock they aren't going to mess with that bag. If not, good luck...

CJSdrftFlat
10-21-2010, 12:59 PM
SO from what I'm reading, if you check in a firearm, you don't have to use the pansy TSA locks? You can use real locks that no one but you has access?

wash
10-21-2010, 1:02 PM
Yes, but you may be required to open it when you check it through with the TSA. It should remain locked after that.

corrupt
10-21-2010, 1:05 PM
I've traveled with a 100% glock frame, 100% AR lower and a 100% bolt action rifle (minus stock and bolt) for the purpose of wanting to lock my case.

The TSA theives get to see what's in your bag on an X-ray machine before they go over to your legally required un-locked or fake TSA locked bag and take whatever they want.

If you take a gun you can use real locks and if your whole bag disapears, tell the police, airport lockdown, call the media, then kick back and laugh.

The TSA guys know they would get caught if they stole it, the baggage handlers know it too, if they see a real lock they aren't going to mess with that bag. If not, good luck...

It's not foolproof. Even one of the magpul guys (pretty boy) had his locked case tampered with (they tried to pry it open). He was smart and had a lock on each of the four places of his hard polymer case (according to one of their DVDs). They tried but failed to pry the case open (probably just lacked enough time to get in to it and quit).

vladbutsky
10-21-2010, 1:11 PM
Reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGjddG5Owsc
You can actually use a replica gun for that purpose. No need for actual firearm.

wash
10-21-2010, 1:15 PM
If you did lose a bag and told the police that there was a gun loose behind security at XYZ airport and they lock down the airport to find it, you might have some explaining to do when they discover it's actually a replica.

vladbutsky
10-21-2010, 1:20 PM
If you did lose a bag and told the police that there was a gun loose behind security at XYZ airport and they lock down the airport to find it, you might have some explaining to do when they discover it's actually a replica.

This does not make any sense.
You cannot loose checked in luggage. It is airport's problem after you checked it in.
If you lost your bags before checking in (in non-sterile area) - nobody would care.

CSACANNONEER
10-21-2010, 1:20 PM
I don't see why it would need a SN or to be DROSed to anyone. There is ZERO legal requirement to have either done, even when flying.

Gryff
10-21-2010, 2:01 PM
Another thread mentioned the procedure for checking firearms when flying on airplanes. It is a bit of a hassle, but it often also zips you to the head of the security line.

What about having a "firearm" specifically designed to get you to the head
of the TSA security line?

Make an "81%" lower. That would be an AR lower with the firing pocket
milled out, at least partially. Also a serial number would be required.
It appears no other work would need to be done: no anodizing, no tapping
of the stock mount, etc. That should bring the price down quite a bit.

Say the cost was $50, and the result was a trip to the front of the security
line at all airports in the US all the time for every flight. Sure, it would
have to be DROSed to you, and you would pay sales tax, and you might
need some sort of case. So final cost might be $100.

Would it be worth $100 to have a permanent "go to the head of the line"
ticket for all US domestic flights?

What are you talking about? It sounds like a guarantee for a full-body cavity search.

ke6guj
10-21-2010, 2:09 PM
What are you talking about? It sounds like a guarantee for a full-body cavity search.

why would that be? Plenty of people travel via air every day with firearms and aren't cavity searched.

CSACANNONEER
10-21-2010, 2:12 PM
What are you talking about? It sounds like a guarantee for a full-body cavity search.

I've found it easier to fly in and out of LAX with a declared firearm than without one. :p

Gryff
10-21-2010, 2:21 PM
why would that be? Plenty of people travel via air every day with firearms and aren't cavity searched.

Because trying to take firearms through the TSA security line is illegal. I've never tried it, but I don't even think they'll allow firearm components through.

I'm guessing that you are talking about a different security line (one that doesn't involve showing your boarding pass and walking through the metal detectors). If so, I can't imagine any situation where a gun gets you through faster than not having a gun (considering the fact you have to open up your luggage to show the gun to the ticket agent, and then the agent has to walk the gun over to the TSA bomb scanner).

CSACANNONEER
10-21-2010, 2:24 PM
Because trying to take firearms through the TSA security line is illegal. I've never tried it, but I don't even think they'll allow firearm components through.

I'm guessing that you are talking about a different security line (one that doesn't involve showing your boarding pass and walking through the metal detectors). If so, I can't imagine any situation where a gun gets you through faster than not having a gun (considering the fact you have to open up your luggage to show the gun to the ticket agent, and then the agent has to walk the gun over to the TSA bomb scanner).

Dude, you don't have a clue. It is common practice for many people to fly with firearms. It's also very easy to do. You have to follow both TSA guidelines and those set by your airline. If it wasn't legal to do, TSA would not have guidelines printed on their website! Ammo can be declared as well.

Dr Rockso
10-21-2010, 2:25 PM
The only line that it might get you to the front of is the checked baggage line (tell a skycap you need to check a firearm, usually he'll walk you right up to the counter). You'll still have to stand in line to take off your shoes and pull your toothpaste out of your bag.

I don't check any baggage unless I'm traveling with guns, though. If I was traveling with expensive gear needing to be checked I'd get a nice hard case and put a gun in it so as to use the TSA lock exemption.

ke6guj
10-21-2010, 2:27 PM
Because trying to take firearms through the TSA security line is illegal. I've never tried it, but I don't even think they'll allow firearm components through.nobody is talking about trying to take firearms, or components, onto the plane as carry-on.

I'm guessing that you are talking about a different security line (one that doesn't involve showing your boarding pass and walking through the metal detectors). If so, I can't imagine any situation where a gun gets you through faster than not having a gun (considering the fact you have to open up your luggage to show the gun to the ticket agent, and then the agent has to walk the gun over to the TSA bomb scanner).the OP is talking about declaring that you are carrying a firearm in your checked baggage and then getting directed to the "front of the line" by TSA.

Different airports are laid out in different ways and in some of them, the way that TSA would process a passenger with a checked firearm might bypass the standard security line (that is not to say that you wouldn't get screened, but that you might not have to wait through the entire line, sort of a short cut).

the_quark
10-21-2010, 2:33 PM
nobody is talking about trying to take firearms, or components, onto the plane as carry-on.


I can tell you from personal experience that, while not a violation, taking components through security is a bad idea. :o

Gryff
10-21-2010, 3:21 PM
Dude, you don't have a clue. It is common practice for many people to fly with firearms. It's also very easy to do. You have to follow both TSA guidelines and those set by your airline. If it wasn't legal to do, TSA would not have guidelines printed on their website! Ammo can be declared as well.

So, I can take a gun in my carry on through the "TSA security line" (i.e. metal detector/carry on bag xray line)? And you say you do this all the time?

I've flown about a dozen times with firearms, and I have to tell you, that is one of the most stupid and wrong ideas I've read yet.

vintagearms
10-21-2010, 4:19 PM
Your not saving any time cutting in line or getting thru security. The plane is going to take off when everyone is boarded anyway. :rolleyes:

dwtt
10-21-2010, 4:28 PM
nobody is talking about trying to take firearms, or components, onto the plane as carry-on.

the OP is talking about declaring that you are carrying a firearm in your checked baggage and then getting directed to the "front of the line" by TSA.

Different airports are laid out in different ways and in some of them, the way that TSA would process a passenger with a checked firearm might bypass the standard security line (that is not to say that you wouldn't get screened, but that you might not have to wait through the entire line, sort of a short cut).

Have you or the OP actually flown with guns?
The security line the OP was referring to is the security check before you get to the boarding gate, where you take your carry-on luggage.
When you fly with a gun, your gun and you are taken to an inspection area where the TSA checks the gun, case, and does whatever they do.
Then you lock up the case with your lock and they take your case away to put it onto the plane. You go to the security line to get your carry-on luggage x-rayed and your body through a walk through metal detector. Checking in a gun won't get you through the security line any faster since you can't take the gun onto the plane as carry on luggage, and the OP clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Rekrab
10-21-2010, 4:46 PM
So, I can take a gun in my carry on through the "TSA security line" (i.e. metal detector/carry on bag xray line)? And you say you do this all the time?

I've flown about a dozen times with firearms, and I have to tell you, that is one of the most stupid and wrong ideas I've read yet.

Nobody is suggesting taking the gun through the metal detector line before you're allowed into the gates. They're talking about the baggage inspection. They're talking about declaring a firearm at the ticketing check-in and leaving it in your bag.

Gryff
10-21-2010, 5:12 PM
Nobody is suggesting taking the gun through the metal detector line before you're allowed into the gates. They're talking about the baggage inspection. They're talking about declaring a firearm at the ticketing check-in and leaving it in your bag.

And that's my point. Everyone reading this thread without any background are going to think that "TSA security line" means the metal detector line. VERY bad thing to take a gun there.

As for bypassing the TSA bomb machine line, it's not my experience that this line is ever very long. Most I've ever waited in it was about three minutes. I just can't see how going through the process of declaring your firearm to the ticketing agent, then waiting while they walk it over to the bomb machine line beats a three-minute wait in that line.

thevic
10-21-2010, 5:28 PM
Well during very high traffic seasons (like holidays). Going up to a rep to declare a firearm and get ahead of the nasty 30min luggage checkin will probably save you 10-15 minutes

CSACANNONEER
10-21-2010, 5:31 PM
So, I can take a gun in my carry on through the "TSA security line" (i.e. metal detector/carry on bag xray line)? And you say you do this all the time?

I've flown about a dozen times with firearms, and I have to tell you, that is one of the most stupid and wrong ideas I've read yet.

If you've flown with firearms, one can only assume that you have the faculties to understand what the OP and the rest of us are talking about. No one except YOU has implies that you can take a firearm in a carry-on. But, like the OP implied, flying with a firearm has taken me from the back of the check in line straight to the VIP line and then to a special TSA screening area to x-ray my bags. It has saved me over 30 minutes of pretending that I was at DMV. No one has suggested that anyone bypasses any inspection. They just tend to be bumped straight to the front of the line. I'm truely sorry if you want to read more into this thread than what has been written.