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BigJim_610
10-21-2010, 10:48 AM
Looks like some senators are getting involved in this fight.
Sorry if a repost. Lets call and thank the Senators

http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/inde...5-b2cfa31c078f

Oct 06 2010
WASHINGTON — U.S. Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) today led a bipartisan group of Senators including Senators Mike Enzi (R-WY), Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-OK), and others in sending a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, urging her to reverse the State Department’s reported decision to ban the sale of surplus antique rifles from South Korea to qualified buyers in the United States. The letter was also sent to Attorney General Eric Holder and Acting Director Kenneth Melson of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE).

Recent media reports indicate the Obama Administration inked a deal with the South Korean government to bring home nearly one million American-made WWII-era surplus military rifles. However, the State Department stepped in at the last minute and arbitrarily blocked the agreement. The rifles in question are the iconic M1 Garand and M1 Carbine rifles, which are popular among collectors and military historians. The letter to Secretary Clinton stresses that the sale poses no risk to Americans and the department’s decision violates law-abiding citizens’ constitutional right to purchase firearms for legitimate purposes. The full text of the letter is below:

October 6, 2010

The Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street, Northwest
Washington, DC 20520

Dear Secretary Clinton:

We write today out of serious concern regarding recent reports indicating the State Department—in conjunction with the Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives—has arbitrarily chosen to ban the sale of surplus M1 Garand and M1 Carbine rifles from South Korea to qualified buyers in the United States. We strongly urge you to reverse this decision.

According to recent reports, although the Obama Administration had approved the sale of these vintage, American-made rifles last year, your Department chose to reverse the decision because the firearms “could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes.” A spokesman for your Department went on to say, “We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms.” This decision amounts to no more than a backdoor gun ban that lacks any basis or justification under current Federal law and policy. This decision violates law-abiding citizens’ constitutional right, protected under the Second Amendment, to purchase these firearms for legitimate purposes such as target shooting, hunting, collecting, and self-protection.

As you may know, the M1 is the rifle that helped our American troops claim victory in World War II. In Korea and Vietnam, our troops went into battle armed with this rifle that in the words of General George S. Patton, “is the greatest battle implement ever devised.” Today, the M1 is lawfully used by American citizens for recreational activities and is also a highly collectible firearm for those interested in American history.

Furthermore, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it is legal to import M1s because they are more than 50 years old and therefore qualify as “curios or relics.” Moreover, any individual wishing to purchase one of these firearms would be subject to the National Instant Check System. Essentially, the sale of these historic rifles—each a piece of America’s proud history—pose no greater risk than the sale of any other firearm legally sold in the United States.

To this end, we request an explanation of your reasons for blocking the importation and sale of American-made rifles from South Korea, and we strongly urge you to reverse your decision in the interest of protecting Americans’ Second Amendment rights. Furthermore, we encourage you to consider utilizing the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) as a means for the sale of these rifles. Currently, the principal rifles sold today through the CMP—a federally chartered non-profit organization dedicated to training and educating U.S. citizens in the responsible use of firearms—are World War II-era M1 Garand rifles.

Thank you for your prompt consideration of this matter.

Sincerely,

John Cornyn, United States Senator
Mike Enzi, United States Senator
Tom Coburn, United States Senator
Jon Tester, United States Senator
Richard Burr, United States Senator
James Inhofe, United States Senator
Judd Gregg, United States Senator
Mike Crapo, United States Senator
John Barrasso, United States Senator
John Thune, United States Senator
Roger Wicker, United States Senator
Bob Bennett, United States Senator
Lisa Murkowski, United States Senator
Mark Begich, United States Senator
Jeanne Shaheen, United States Senator
Chuck Grassley, United States Senator

cc: Eric Holder, Attorney General
Kenneth Melson, BATFE Acting Director

choprzrul
10-21-2010, 11:07 AM
I don't care what political party those signers belong to, I hope they all get re-elected!

.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Ummm... We already own those rifles. The dispute is that the Koreans are trying to sell us back property that is already ours.

DRH
10-21-2010, 12:02 PM
Ummm... We already own those rifles. The dispute is that the Koreans are trying to sell us back property that is already ours.

No the ownership issue is a red herring. The reason they do not want them here is that they don't trust us with them. It is that simple.
Here is the link:
http://www.scribd.com/full/39176770?access_key=key-k0k126h4dxkbhjq0z4r

Scott Connors
10-21-2010, 12:06 PM
Ummm... We already own those rifles. The dispute is that the Koreans are trying to sell us back property that is already ours.

Some of the Korean rifles were lend lease, and others were outright sold to the ROK, but unfortunately they were less than diligent when it came to segregating the two. Anyway, possession is 9/10ths, after all. Also, when the sale was originally approved the idea was that the proceeds of the sale would benefit their military, which would allow us to reduce the amount of military aid we send them by that amount, so, essentially, the federal budget would have benefited by their return.

Anyway, the whole "ownership" issue is a red herring. If that were the reason, Hillary would have demanded that the rifles be returned, and that would have made them available through CMP. Hillary & Co's sole goal is to deny the American people access to these historically significant C&R firearms in order to weaken the "gun culture."

not-fishing
10-21-2010, 12:09 PM
I don't care if we have to pay to get back our Garands.

Just as long as the Koreans took good care of them and install a new barrel before they send them back. my Marine really likes his Danish M1

bruss01
10-21-2010, 12:09 PM
This story is about 2 weeks old... :whistling:

Mofo-Kang
10-21-2010, 12:12 PM
I hope they're successful, but I have to say that I think pointing out the Patton quote was probably not a wise move in a letter sent to someone who doesn't believe citizens should own military-style rifles. :) I'd be surprised if Clinton knew what a "Garand" is...reading that, she's probably picturing an AK-47 or something.

yellowfin
10-21-2010, 12:21 PM
There's also some 1911's in the mix too, as I recall from one report of it.

Peter.Steele
10-21-2010, 12:29 PM
There's also some 1911's in the mix too, as I recall from one report of it.


Unfortunately, those aren't going to matter a damn. We'll never have access to those through the government. They torch cut those, rather than let citizens have them.

frankm
10-21-2010, 2:10 PM
Holder, release the dang rifles you communist.

jaymz
10-21-2010, 2:32 PM
No the ownership issue is a red herring. The reason they do not want them here is that they don't trust us with them. It is that simple.
Here is the link:
http://www.scribd.com/full/39176770?access_key=key-k0k126h4dxkbhjq0z4r

Interesting that the report says that you need 7 parts to turn an M1 into a machinegun, and that you can own 6 of the 7 without worry of constructive possession. I thought owning any full auto parts was a no-no. What's even more interesting, is that you could build a Lightning Link to make your AR fully auto with a hacksaw blade and a Dremel, yet nobody seems overly concerned about that!

campperrykid
11-01-2010, 6:43 PM
This is well worth a click and a careful read:
No the ownership issue is a red herring. The reason they do not want them here is that they don't trust us with them. It is that simple.
Here is the link:
http://www.scribd.com/full/39176770?access_key=key-k0k126h4dxkbhjq0z4r

A few things jump right out :
Too many M1 Carbines and 1911 Pistols at very economical prices . That would create a public safety problem.

If the ROK deal is approved , other allies will want to sell their Carbines and Pistols to US citizens.

It's all about lots of guns at economical prices.

Arondos
11-01-2010, 7:43 PM
I wonder if the state department could even find the last time an M1 Garand was used to commit a crime?

I just got one from CMP, great fun to shoot and then there's the history behind them.

Untamed1972
11-01-2010, 7:50 PM
I point from the letter that seems incorrect. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought purchase of C&R rifles did not require a background check? The letter claims it does.

chuckdc
11-01-2010, 10:13 PM
I point from the letter that seems incorrect. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought purchase of C&R rifles did not require a background check? The letter claims it does.

If you buy an M1 Garand or Carbine from CMP, they run you through NICS. If you buy one at the store (and you dont have a C&R AND a COE) they will hold it for the 10 days and run the check. The exemption only applies to face-to-face sales of C&R in California. Anyplace else, your mileage may vary.

Dreaded Claymore
11-02-2010, 1:13 AM
No the ownership issue is a red herring. The reason they do not want them here is that they don't trust us with them. It is that simple.
Here is the link:
http://www.scribd.com/full/39176770?access_key=key-k0k126h4dxkbhjq0z4r

*reads link*

[comically exaggerated Jewish accent]
Oy! Those BEAHSTADS! :cuss:
[/accent]

campperrykid
11-02-2010, 2:59 AM
When in doubt , vote 'em out.

:rockon:

jshoebot
11-02-2010, 3:12 AM
Is it just me, or does the Patton quote seem like they're trying to get her to continue the importation ban? Everyone knows what her husband did with our M14's and why he did it..

Mulay El Raisuli
11-02-2010, 3:52 AM
I hope they're successful, but I have to say that I think pointing out the Patton quote was probably not a wise move in a letter sent to someone who doesn't believe citizens should own military-style rifles. :) I'd be surprised if Clinton knew what a "Garand" is...reading that, she's probably picturing an AK-47 or something.


With a shoulder thing that goes up!


The Raisuli

SanPedroShooter
11-02-2010, 5:10 AM
Am i too optimistic when i say that eventually we will see some of these guns for sale on the US market?

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms.” Well you know what that means... Maybe i should torch cut my grandfather, he's a WWII vet as well. This whole issue goes well beyong the actual gun for me, it's the direct result of a clin ton in high office again... Can you imagine if she would have won the white house???
Politics aside, the thought of these historic artifacts, yeah i said it, being destroyed brings a tear to my eye.

Untamed1972
11-02-2010, 7:05 AM
If you buy an M1 Garand or Carbine from CMP, they run you through NICS. If you buy one at the store (and you dont have a C&R AND a COE) they will hold it for the 10 days and run the check. The exemption only applies to face-to-face sales of C&R in California. Anyplace else, your mileage may vary.

gotcha! thanks for the clarification.

campperrykid
11-02-2010, 8:14 AM
Fair question;
Am i too optimistic when i say that eventually we will see some of these guns for sale on the US market?

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms.” Well you know what that means... Maybe i should torch cut my grandfather, he's a WWII vet as well. This whole issue goes well beyong the actual gun for me, it's the direct result of a clin ton in high office again... Can you imagine if she would have won the white house???
Politics aside, the thought of these historic artifacts, yeah i said it, being destroyed brings a tear to my eye.

Too optimistic?
I don't think so. History suggests that you are right on target . The gungrabbers delayed the late '80's Blue Sky deal for a while -- they even siezed the first shipment of 40,000 guns and impounded them all for around a year. When the dust had settled , over 200,000 M1 Carbines & Garands had come back from the ROK.
Some had been used hard , but that's no surprise . Very few armies surplus their new-from-rebuild stuff first and keep their old beat-up stuff in war reserves.

The gungrabbers are suffering from delusions of adequecy , again.
A good *****-kicking in today's election might help them to return to something close to objective reality .

vincewarde
11-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Anyway, the whole "ownership" issue is a red herring. If that were the reason, Hillary would have demanded that the rifles be returned, and that would have made them available through CMP. Hillary & Co's sole goal is to deny the American people access to these historically significant C&R firearms in order to weaken the "gun culture."

Which is why Hillary did not raise the ownership issue. According to CMP, the Koreans have tried to sell these guns several times in the past and have been denied on the basis of ownership. I think this even happened under Bush.

Now if they wanted to, they could have negotiated a deal where some of the rifles came back for distribution through CMP and the rest were sold through dealers. Why didn't she do this? Because the antis can hardly wait until CMP runs out of guns - they certainly do not want a new source of supply opening up.

campperrykid
11-02-2010, 12:33 PM
The drivel that will not die.

... Snip for Brevity...
According to CMP, the Koreans have tried to sell these guns several times in the past and have been denied on the basis of ownership.

.. .( snip for brevity )...


" ...According to CMP... "

Please post a link that identifies the official , on the CMP payroll , who made that statement , the date of the statement and the exact quote.
I'm talking a direct quote from the official , not " my cousin Bob read it last week and he told me..."

winnre
11-02-2010, 2:26 PM
To me, those rifles are soldiers who have not come home yet.

campperrykid
11-02-2010, 3:29 PM
There are likely to be hundreds of thousands still in the hands of our Asian allies . Busting that import market wide open could be a very significant RKBA victory. Here's a list of Carbines provided to various governments and resistance movements around the world. from 'a' for Angola ( UNITA ) to 'V' for Republic of VietNam . The ROK , ROC/Taiwan , and Thailand might be particularly good sources of metric tons of milsurp guns. Check out some of these numbers.

www.bavarianm1carbines.com/carbinesnara.html

IMO, those countries would be stupid to give back any loaned guns until and unless they have solid long term deals for the sale of the guns that they paid for. As in money in the bank , and a track record of completed , good faith transactions. Without .gov lies and BS.
Just good business , especially after some of the gungrabber dirty tricks during the '80's and '90's.