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View Full Version : Are out of state intrafamilial transfers 1 in 30 days exempt?


tenpercentfirearms
10-21-2010, 5:42 AM
I just received two unsafe handguns from a guy's mom out of state and he already DROSed and picked up the first. During the second he mentions that according to the HSC booklet intrafamilial transfers are exempt from the 1 in 30 days. Sure enough it is in there and I agree 100% on the normal intrafamilial transfer form for instate transfers that you send directly to the DOJ, they would be exempt.

I am starting to think that he is further correct that I could have run DROS on both the first time and then in the 10 day waiting period exemption box I could have dragged down the 1 in 30 days selection.

What do you all think?

nickvig
10-21-2010, 6:17 AM
I've always been told that since a gun is coming in from out of state it is entered into the FFL's book as part of his inventory, thus becoming a sale to the final party not a PPT. Since it gets entered as a sale, the 1 in 30 applies and is not exempt as an intrafamilial PPT.

Wouldn't the DROS automatically reject the second transfer if it wasn't allowed like it does under normal sales transactions?

kemasa
10-21-2010, 8:34 AM
If it were a "intrafamilial transfer", then it would be exempt, but in this case you are just doing an exemption for the certified list.

The section for 1 in 30: PC section 12072(a)(9)

There is no exemption for such a transfer.

The best you could hope for is to ask the CA DOJ and see what they say, but the law does not seem to allow for it, even though it should. The law does not really deal with these transfers either, but the DOJ said how to do them.

beemaze
10-25-2010, 7:46 AM
Let's say a person's father who resides out of state has passed away and bequeathed his entire collection to his son who resides in California. The executor of the estate (lawyer) now wants to transfer the firearms into California to a dealer in order for his son to take posession. Is there a legal mechanism for doing so?

If so, please quote the PC section.

Librarian
10-25-2010, 9:08 AM
Let's say a person's father who resides out of state has passed away and bequeathed his entire collection to his son who resides in California. The executor of the estate (lawyer) now wants to transfer the firearms into California to a dealer in order for his son to take posession. Is there a legal mechanism for doing so?

If so, please quote the PC section.

The only reason to use a dealer for interstate transfer is to satisfy Federal law - and Federal law exempts inheritance - 18 USC 922 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html)(a)(5)this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made
to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by
intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of
his residence,

California thinks this is an intrafamilial transfer (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members) - accept all the guns, report all the handguns via the OPLAW form. Be sure the son has his HSC.

ETA: also be sure none are 'assault weapons' - it's legal for the beneficiary to own them by this route, but they have to stay out of state.

jtmkinsd
10-25-2010, 10:29 AM
I just received two unsafe handguns from a guy's mom out of state and he already DROSed and picked up the first. During the second he mentions that according to the HSC booklet intrafamilial transfers are exempt from the 1 in 30 days. Sure enough it is in there and I agree 100% on the normal intrafamilial transfer form for instate transfers that you send directly to the DOJ, they would be exempt.

I am starting to think that he is further correct that I could have run DROS on both the first time and then in the 10 day waiting period exemption box I could have dragged down the 1 in 30 days selection.

What do you all think?

Agree 100%

beemaze
10-25-2010, 3:32 PM
The only reason to use a dealer for interstate transfer is to satisfy Federal law - and Federal law exempts inheritance - 18 USC 922 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html)(a)(5)

California thinks this is an intrafamilial transfer (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members) - accept all the guns, report all the handguns via the OPLAW form. Be sure the son has his HSC.

ETA: also be sure none are 'assault weapons' - it's legal for the beneficiary to own them by this route, but they have to stay out of state.

Thank You. This info will be helping a fellow Californian obtain his rightful inheritance.

nickvig
10-30-2010, 12:08 PM
The only reason to use a dealer for interstate transfer is to satisfy Federal law - and Federal law exempts inheritance - 18 USC 922 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html)(a)(5)

California thinks this is an intrafamilial transfer (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members) - accept all the guns, report all the handguns via the OPLAW form. Be sure the son has his HSC.

ETA: also be sure none are 'assault weapons' - it's legal for the beneficiary to own them by this route, but they have to stay out of state.

Can you clarify this? Federal Law exempts inheritance (does it define inheritance e.g. only in the death of a person) for interstate transfer.

So does that mean someone's mother/father in another state can give them a handgun and an FFL isn't required? I'm confused even more now.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-30-2010, 12:19 PM
Can you clarify this? Federal Law exempts inheritance (does it define inheritance e.g. only in the death of a person) for interstate transfer...

Librarian was using the word "inheritance" as legal shorthand. The actual wording for the type of interstate firearm transfer that Federal law exempts from FFL requirements is "bequest or intestate succession". In biology you can inherit things from your parents while they are still alive (eye color, cystic fibrosis). But in the legal world inheritance requires that the giving party be deceased.

A bequest is when you receive something from the estate of a dead person because they named you in their will.

Intestate succession is when you receive something from the estate of a dead person who didn't have a will, or failed to include all of their property in their will. The executor of the estate is supposed to figure out to whom such property goes by following the rules of inheritance... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy