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sqroot3
10-20-2010, 11:42 PM
To preface what I am about to ask, I want to say that I have read the Calguns wiki GFSZ topic several times and have additionally googled and read a fair amount on the subject. Please don't flame me! :)

I wanted to clarify with you all--are the following accurate?

1) A person without a CA CCW permit is NOT allowed to carry a gun onto a college campus unless he has written permission from the president or equivalent authority. Therefore, LUCC by non-CCW holders and non-LEO on college campuses is generally illegal unless permission is sought and granted. (PC 626.9)

2) A person who does not have a CA CCW permit, who is not a sworn LEO acting in his scope of duty, and who is not one of the individuals described in PC 12027.1(a)(1) is prohibited from possessing or carrying ammunition onto schools, including college campuses, unless authorized to do so by the president or equivalent authority. Therefore, for the ordinary Joe, even driving through a campus with ammunition you just purchased would be in violation of the law. (PC 12316)

Thank you!!

Librarian
10-20-2010, 11:59 PM
That is accurate.

CaliforniaCarry
10-21-2010, 12:16 AM
That is accurate.

And sucky for those of us working on college campuses :(

pullnshoot25
10-21-2010, 12:29 AM
Stupid victim disarmament policies...

N6ATF
10-21-2010, 12:35 AM
The government prefers only criminals be armed on college campuses. I prefer not to be their female dog.

PsychGuy274
10-21-2010, 2:44 AM
I was under the impression that (seeing as LUCC is legal pretty much everywhere) that a college campus (which is not part of 626.9; only K-12) cannot actually enforce this.

They can make a policy against it, but if the college is public (e.g. run by government; and government can't infringe on rights) they can't actually do anything about it because you're not doing anything that's actually ILLEGAL.

Someone please school me on this...

Turo
10-21-2010, 2:46 AM
I was under the impression that (seeing as LUCC is legal pretty much everywhere) that a college campus (which is not part of 626.9; only K-12) cannot actually enforce this.

They can make a policy against it, but if the college is public (e.g. run by government; and government can't infringe on rights) they can't actually do anything about it because you're not doing anything that's actually ILLEGAL.

Someone please school me on this...

IIRC it's not a school rule/policy, it's in the actual PC. LUCC is an exception to the 1000' GFSZ law but not to the "no guns on school campus" law.

Whether it's constitutional or not is another story.

Librarian
10-21-2010, 9:05 AM
I was under the impression that (seeing as LUCC is legal pretty much everywhere) that a college campus (which is not part of 626.9; only K-12) cannot actually enforce this.

They can make a policy against it, but if the college is public (e.g. run by government; and government can't infringe on rights) they can't actually do anything about it because you're not doing anything that's actually ILLEGAL.

Someone please school me on this...

You have to read further down 626.9 to sub-sections (h) and (i) - colleges/universities (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Law_2) are covered as to on-campus, but not zones around them.

PsychGuy274
10-21-2010, 2:06 PM
Ah, I see...thanks

lgm118icbm
10-21-2010, 2:43 PM
And sucky for those of us working on college campuses :(


Tell me about it!

Crom
10-21-2010, 3:10 PM
And sucky for those of us working on college campuses :(

Search your Board policies carefully, you may be surprised.

I believe I have discovered that if you have a CCW license and there is no Board policy barring employees from having a firearm, in theory it would be legal to possess while at work and no disciplinary action should occur if you breach concealment.

I have searched ED Code pretty thoroughly and can find no bar against it there either.

Anyone else explored this before?

sqroot3
10-21-2010, 3:23 PM
I was unclear about the whole thing and my confusion was almost exactly what PsychGuy articulated. The consensus here seems to confirm that the two statements in my first post are mostly correct... :(

Geez Crom, most of us don't even have a ccw to be contemplating such luxuries :)

Turo
10-21-2010, 3:30 PM
Crom,
If a person had a ccw permit, they would be exempt from the "no guns on university" law regardless of the school's policy on the issue. The only thing that can happen if you are discovered to be carrying, is that the school could take disciplinary action against you. It is not illegal for a ccw holder to carry on a college campus.

safewaysecurity
10-21-2010, 3:41 PM
But carrying a foldable knife concealed on campus is a-ok correct?

Crom
10-21-2010, 4:00 PM
I was unclear about the whole thing and my confusion was almost exactly what PsychGuy articulated. The consensus here seems to confirm that the two statements in my first post are mostly correct... :(

Geez Crom, most of us don't even have a ccw to be contemplating such luxuries :)

The way I read the PC, it does not bar someone from possessing ammunition on a college campus. College districts have Chancellors and individual colleges have presidents not superintendents like K-12 schools, so I understand this section of the wiki: Ammunition (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Ammunition) differently than the author of the article.

Also, I have Florida and Utah licenses, and I trust that we'll all have our California licenses within one years time. And I hope sooner for me as I am in San Diego and Peruta will have a judgment soon. :)

Crom,
If a person had a ccw permit, they would be exempt from the "no guns on university" law regardless of the school's policy on the issue. The only thing that can happen if you are discovered to be carrying, is that the school could take disciplinary action against you. It is not illegal for a ccw holder to carry on a college campus.

I agree on the legality of it. Nobody wants to loose their job. My point was that if there was no board policy against it then an employee can't loose your job over it. Realistically though there are serious political implications to breech of concealment for an employee. It very well may ruin relations with coworkers and negatively affect the future prospects of the employee within the educational community. If it were me I would think long and hard before making that kind of decision.

Turo
10-21-2010, 7:06 PM
I agree on the legality of it. Nobody wants to loose their job. My point was that if there was no board policy against it then an employee can't loose your job over it. Realistically though there are serious political implications to breech of concealment for an employee. It very well may ruin relations with coworkers and negatively affect the future prospects of the employee within the educational community. If it were me I would think long and hard before making that kind of decision.

No harm done, I just wanted to clarify your statement. The way you worded it made it sound like, to me, if the school had a policy against it it made it illegal.

Turo
10-21-2010, 7:07 PM
But carrying a foldable knife concealed on campus is a-ok correct?

In the eyes of the CA penal code, that is not illegal.

wolfeman
10-21-2010, 9:40 PM
And sucky for those of us working on college campuses :(

Can I get an "Amen"...would love to go to the range that is two blocks from campus after work instead of making a roundtrip back home...

Matt C
10-21-2010, 10:48 PM
And sucky for those of us working on college campuses :(

And even worse for those living in the dorms. I think if a suitable plaintiff could be found it might make a decent case similar to the San Francisco Housing Authority case settled last year. CGF, are you listening?

Librarian
10-21-2010, 11:10 PM
The way I read the PC, it does not bar someone from possessing ammunition on a college campus. College districts have Chancellors and individual colleges have presidents not superintendents like K-12 schools, so I understand this section of the wiki: Ammunition (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Ammunition) differently than the author of the article.

Yes, that's an argument that may actually work - the law being made of such precision, your objection might stand.

But until we get some case law on that, I prefer to leave the wiki at the 'lowest risk' setting. People with money and good lawyers should feel free to invest in clarification of the law - though finding a way to toss the whole thing seems more beneficial.

Either way, I'll be happy to change the wiki! (Or, you can, since you work on it, too.)

the_quark
10-21-2010, 11:40 PM
I think if a suitable plaintiff could be found it might make a decent case similar to the San Francisco Housing Authority case settled last year. CGF, are you listening?

That's an interesting thought that I personally hadn't considered, before. Now all we need is a bunch of clones of Messrs. Davis, Kilmer and Gura so we can actually run all the cases in parallel...

sqroot3
10-22-2010, 8:41 AM
Does the college campus situation differ between private and public (state-run, of course) institutions?

Librarian
10-22-2010, 9:03 AM
Does the college campus situation differ between private and public (state-run, of course) institutions?

No.

Crom
10-22-2010, 10:55 AM
No harm done, I just wanted to clarify your statement. The way you worded it made it sound like, to me, if the school had a policy against it it made it illegal.

:thumbsup: 10-4

Yes, that's an argument that may actually work - the law being made of such precision, your objection might stand.

But until we get some case law on that, I prefer to leave the wiki at the 'lowest risk' setting. People with money and good lawyers should feel free to invest in clarification of the law - though finding a way to toss the whole thing seems more beneficial.

Either way, I'll be happy to change the wiki! (Or, you can, since you work on it, too.)

I agree that the 'lowest risk' setting for the wiki is ideal for the masses. And seeing the GFSZ go down in flames in court (or repealed through legislation) will be a bright spot for all of us to rejoice in.

Matt C
10-22-2010, 11:03 AM
That's an interesting thought that I personally hadn't considered, before. Now all we need is a bunch of clones of Messrs. Davis, Kilmer and Gura so we can actually run all the cases in parallel...

Heheh, yeah, CGF should start a scholarship for calgunners who get into "top 15" law schools.

N6ATF
10-22-2010, 11:25 AM
:King:

Librarian
10-22-2010, 11:25 AM
Heheh, yeah, CGF should start a scholarship for calgunners who get into "top 15" law schools.

Maybe Alan will do that when he gets paid for Heller. Wouldn't that be delicious!