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View Full Version : UPDATE- doj denial due to arrest(no conviction)


cowboy44
10-20-2010, 6:09 PM
Last week I posted a thread re: being denied by the doj for a dv arrest with no conviction- The doj came back and said I was now banned for life from purchasing a gun and had to turn over all my current guns- Thankfully calguns members sent me lots of support and said to contact attorney Jason Davis. He immediately went to work on my case,was thoroughly upset by this unjust decision and got the ruling reversed in 2 days!!!!! I would like to thank CalGuns and Jason Davis for standing up for our rights in California. I would highly recommend him to anyone who needs any help with gun laws etc.

Jason Mead - Corona,ca

HowardW56
10-20-2010, 6:10 PM
OUTSTANDING! :D

pepsi2451
10-20-2010, 6:10 PM
Glad to hear everything worked out for you.

Cuahitl
10-20-2010, 6:22 PM
Awesome.

odysseus
10-20-2010, 6:28 PM
Props to all!

Kingsman
10-20-2010, 6:33 PM
Amazing.

Vtec44
10-20-2010, 6:34 PM
Holy crap, this is what CA law abiding citizens have to deal with.

Jason Davis is the bomb! :D

Thanks for the update.

Joe
10-20-2010, 6:36 PM
Jason Davis is awesome.

Glad they got things sorted out for you!

Spelunker
10-20-2010, 6:38 PM
Dear DOJ,
A good microbrew will help as this gets shoved down your throat.
Sincerely,
Precriminal Citizen

anthonyca
10-20-2010, 6:38 PM
I spoke with Mr. Davis and I was amazed by his passion for freedom. He is an outstanding American.

Great job on not letting this go.

SFgiants105
10-20-2010, 6:40 PM
Cool beans. Good to know we have some support around here.

bronsht
10-20-2010, 6:40 PM
Holy Mackeral! I didn't even know that was actually possible. Congrats.
bronsht

wildhawker
10-20-2010, 6:50 PM
Jason Davis is the real deal.

I would encourage everyone who appreciates outcomes like this to make a tax-deductible donation so we can keep making these sorts of things happen (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/donate).

CHS
10-20-2010, 7:05 PM
Like I've always said: Jason Davis GETS CRAP DONE.

choprzrul
10-20-2010, 7:08 PM
Last week I posted a thread re: being denied by the doj for a dv arrest with no conviction- The doj came back and said I was now banned for life from purchasing a gun and had to turn over all my current guns- Thankfully calguns members sent me lots of support and said to contact attorney Jason Davis. He immediately went to work on my case,was thoroughly upset by this unjust decision and got the ruling reversed in 2 days!!!!! I would like to thank CalGuns and Jason Davis for standing up for our rights in California. I would highly recommend him to anyone who needs any help with gun laws etc.

Jason Mead - Corona,ca

Pretty cool stuff for posting #2! Congrats.

.

Recession
10-20-2010, 7:19 PM
Wow wow wow wow. Jason Davis :thumbsup:

thebronze
10-20-2010, 7:29 PM
AWESOME!!!!!

Hdawg
10-20-2010, 7:43 PM
:mnl:

OleCuss
10-20-2010, 7:48 PM
Congratulations on choosing one of the great lawyers who support our rights so ably.

Foulball
10-20-2010, 8:15 PM
Damn Mr. Davis, that is some serious *** kicking right there!!!

Congrats to the OP.

JasonDavis
10-20-2010, 8:45 PM
Dear DOJ,
A good microbrew will help as this gets shoved down your throat.
Sincerely,
Precriminal Citizen
I think there was an honest mistake within the DOJ, which upon discussion, they promptly corrected. They did the right thing.

hoffmang
10-20-2010, 8:50 PM
Gents,

Jason is available to just fix these things because your donations to CGF fund his time. Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

mrrsquared79
10-20-2010, 9:48 PM
I can personally attest to Jason Davis and his ability to get stuff done as he did for me recently. As a matter of fact while I was in the heat of the moment to get the situation rectified, Jason called at that very moment and got me through it with no cuts, scratches, or bruises!!!

Jason along with CGF are truly valuable assets to have on our side. :D

rtlltj
10-20-2010, 9:51 PM
Gents,

Jason is available to just fix these things because your donations to CGF fund his time. Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

Did the op have Jason's services covered by CGF completely because that is pretty awesome?

It pisses me off we have to spend money because of incompetent people trying to infringe on people's rights.

stitchnicklas
10-20-2010, 9:53 PM
this is why i keep one of his tear-off cards in my visor mirror at all times and why i do donate to cgf....

bjl333
10-20-2010, 9:55 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

technique
10-20-2010, 10:00 PM
Gents,

Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

Freedom costs $1.05

Congrats OP. Jason did a wonderful job.

stitchnicklas
10-20-2010, 10:15 PM
actually i just made my October donation 2 mins ago....

if i ever get in trouble i want help from someone that knows i am down with the cause and donate.

armygunsmith
10-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Man, I love hearing this stuff. Money contributed. Thanks Calguns and Calguns Foundation!

SteveH
10-20-2010, 10:23 PM
Gents,

Jason is available to just fix these things because your donations to CGF fund his time. Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

so was this CGF paid legal work or did the OP pay Davis himself?

hoffmang
10-20-2010, 10:26 PM
so was this CGF paid legal work or did the OP pay Davis himself?

This was CGF paid legal work.

-Gene

stitchnicklas
10-20-2010, 10:40 PM
thanks gene for taking care of yet another victim of the bureaucrats in the capital city of doom....:hurray::hurray:

dantodd
10-20-2010, 10:46 PM
This was CGF paid legal work.

-Gene

Getting your legal bill paid by CalGuns Foundation is like unlosing the lottery.

CHS
10-20-2010, 11:34 PM
I've recommended Jason Davis to so many people that have had positive outcomes because of it, that I deserve a cut :)



















I kid, I kid.. Jason Davis is a great guy. I recommend him because of his record. Period.

imtheomegaman
10-20-2010, 11:47 PM
in a sea of bad news, this was a welcome post, congrats and thanks to cgf

The Cable Guy
10-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Is Jason doing this for free based on CGF funds/donations? Is he directly affiliated with CGF?

Looks like a simple mistake, but easily corrected by someone as competent with the law as Jason Davis. Glad it turned out for the better!

DannyInSoCal
10-21-2010, 12:33 AM
I'm gonna stop by his office and drop off a ceeegar....

wildhawker
10-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Jason is retained counsel for CGF and he works incredibly hard for this community, often beyond the call of duty. I know without question that our rights matter to him personally and it shows in everything he does.



Is Jason doing this for free based on CGF funds/donations? Is he directly affiliated with CGF?

Looks like a simple mistake, but easily corrected by someone as competent with the law as Jason Davis. Glad it turned out for the better!

chaseface
10-21-2010, 1:02 AM
Pure Awesome!!!

MindBuilder
10-21-2010, 1:30 AM
We need details! What was the error? Can anyone who has plead to disturbing the peace pass the background check? Did you plead to the kind of disturbing the peace that didn't involve force or the threat of force against a domestic relation? How is it that the Lautenburg domestic violence prohibition issues don't apply here?

the_quark
10-21-2010, 2:38 AM
We need details! What was the error? Can anyone who has plead to disturbing the peace pass the background check? Did you plead to the kind of disturbing the peace that didn't involve force or the threat of force against a domestic relation? How is it that the Lautenburg domestic violence prohibition issues don't apply here?

If I recall his original post, he didn't plead - he was arrested, but never charged.

JohanD
10-21-2010, 5:30 AM
OUTSTANDING! :D

:rockon:


Awesome job! I love the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

gbarbo001
10-21-2010, 7:08 AM
O.K. I'm convinced. Donation on its way.

xxsleepyxx
10-21-2010, 7:38 AM
If I recall his original post, he didn't plead - he was arrested, but never charged.

Why would his case show up in the NICS check? Bad luck?

HowardW56
10-21-2010, 7:43 AM
Why would his case show up in the NICS check? Bad luck?

Clerical error, clerk never updating the record to indicate that he was never charged/ or found not gulty...

SJgunguy24
10-21-2010, 7:58 AM
*Ring*....."Hello, the Evil Empire" (Ca DOJ Bureau of Firearms)


"You have a call from......from.......Jason Davis"...........

WWaLxFIVX1s

xxsleepyxx
10-21-2010, 8:11 AM
Clerical error, clerk never updating the record to indicate that he was never charged/ or found not gulty...

Interesting. He was charged, however, just not convicted. So some guy or gal probably got lazy at DOJ office in Sacramento? Or is it someone at the courthouse or where do you think this person operates through? This is interesting.

jdberger
10-21-2010, 8:23 AM
LCAV never could have predicted the angry giant they awoke when going after the Ring of Fire.

Sometimes I think Jason is the Balrog.








(I think that might be my nerdiest post ever)

Thanks, Jason - for doing what you do.

Wherryj
10-21-2010, 8:40 AM
Last week I posted a thread re: being denied by the doj for a dv arrest with no conviction- The doj came back and said I was now banned for life from purchasing a gun and had to turn over all my current guns- Thankfully calguns members sent me lots of support and said to contact attorney Jason Davis. He immediately went to work on my case,was thoroughly upset by this unjust decision and got the ruling reversed in 2 days!!!!! I would like to thank CalGuns and Jason Davis for standing up for our rights in California. I would highly recommend him to anyone who needs any help with gun laws etc.

Jason Mead - Corona,ca

Wow, that attorney I chose for a VERY CLEAR cut illegal business practices case took almost a year, during which I personally gathered ALL of the information for their office, and only THEN did they say, "I think that it might be too expensive".

I wish that Mr. Davis was in NoCal and did more business law. Fortunately for you he is just the right person for your job.

tiki
10-21-2010, 8:44 AM
I think there was an honest mistake within the DOJ, which upon discussion, they promptly corrected. They did the right thing.

Yes, but it took discussion. I have your card in my wallet.

vantec08
10-21-2010, 8:49 AM
Why do "honest" mistakes nearly always favor the bureaucrats?

NoJoke
10-21-2010, 8:59 AM
Gents,

Jason is available to just fix these things because your donations to CGF fund his time. Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

Donated just now.

ojisan
10-21-2010, 9:05 AM
Awesome!
:punk:

In all my years, I have never seen an organization such as CGF.
I'm cynical and jaded after all the years of trying to get things done with other organizations, most of which took my money, did nothing and then faded away.
CGF actually does stuff...both for the little guy and for the big goals.
What a great group..made up of great individuals who have earned my trust and confidence.

CGF is certainly worthy of your donations and your support.

Thank you, CGF.
:cheers2:

Ed_in_Sac
10-21-2010, 9:13 AM
Outstanding! What was the doj thinking of...oh wait I know. Thanks to the CGF for reversing this travesty!

androu
10-21-2010, 9:15 AM
Last week I posted a thread re: being denied by the doj for a dv arrest with no conviction- The doj came back and said I was now banned for life from purchasing a gun and had to turn over all my current guns- Thankfully calguns members sent me lots of support and said to contact attorney Jason Davis. He immediately went to work on my case,was thoroughly upset by this unjust decision and got the ruling reversed in 2 days!!!!! I would like to thank CalGuns and Jason Davis for standing up for our rights in California. I would highly recommend him to anyone who needs any help with gun laws etc.

Jason Mead - Corona,ca

That's awesome, I'm really happy that you got this straightened out.

But I'm puzzled.

Doesn't the Attorney General run the DOJ? And isn't the Attorney General Jerry Brown? And isn't he touted by many on this board as a big supporter of 2A rights and therefore the best choice for Governor? If all this is true why did his department try to shaft you like this in the first place?

HowardW56
10-21-2010, 9:19 AM
In all my years, I have never seen an organization such as CGF.

I'm cynical and jaded after all the years of trying to get things done with other organizations, most of which took my money, did nothing and then faded away.

CGF actually does stuff...both for the little guy and for the big goals.
What a great group..made up of great individuals who have earned my trust and confidence.

CGF is certainly worthy of your donations and your support.

Thank you, CGF.

:iagree:

HowardW56
10-21-2010, 9:24 AM
That's awesome, I'm really happy that you got this straightened out.

But I'm puzzled.

Doesn't the Attorney General run the DOJ? And isn't the Attorney General Jerry Brown? And isn't he touted by many on this board as a big supporter of 2A rights and therefore the best choice for Governor? If all this is true why did his department try to shaft you like this in the first place?

Have you ever dealt with a government agency?

The guy at the top knows what everyone down the line should be doing, but it doesn't always happen.

In years past it would be impossible to fix, they would dare you to sue them. Now at least the issues can be corrected.

Is the DOJ/BOF great to deal with, hell no. Is it much better than it was before Jerry Brown, HELL YES.

androu
10-21-2010, 9:45 AM
Is it much better than it was before Jerry Brown, HELL YES.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Maybe, but it's still pretty bad.

JasonDavis
10-21-2010, 10:01 AM
LCAV never could have predicted the angry giant they awoke when going after the Ring of Fire.

Sometimes I think Jason is the Balrog.

(I think that might be my nerdiest post ever)



I have been called a lot of things, including other Tolkien names, "Gimli" and "Samwise" spring to mind. I have also been told "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper." But "giant" and "balrog" are a first. That is the nerdiest post you have ever made; and for that, I thank you!

winnre
10-21-2010, 10:09 AM
out of all the posts I have seen here with guys finding out they cannot own guns, it is wonderful to see this post. Donation sent! Keep up the good work!

joedogboy
10-21-2010, 10:42 AM
We need details! What was the error? Can anyone who has plead to disturbing the peace pass the background check? Did you plead to the kind of disturbing the peace that didn't involve force or the threat of force against a domestic relation? How is it that the Lautenburg domestic violence prohibition issues don't apply here?

It is not uncommon for an arrest to be recorded in the criminal records database, and not be taken out when the case is dismissed or the suspect is acquitted.
It is unfortunate that it often requires legal action to get the database updated, but the powers that be would rather deny you your rights while you are getting it fixed than risk allowing someone to accidentally pass. This situation is in direct opposition to the precept that you are innocent until proven guilty, and should not be allowed to occur.

Afterburnt
10-21-2010, 11:13 AM
I think there was an honest mistake within the DOJ, which upon discussion, they promptly corrected. They did the right thing.


I wonder how often they make this "honest mistake" and people dont contest it? I know that they have done this to people before.

Scott Connors
10-21-2010, 11:55 AM
LCAV never could have predicted the angry giant they awoke when going after the Ring of Fire.

Sometimes I think Jason is the Balrog. [snippage]

Not a good analogy: after all, the Balrog was ultimately defeated. Think more on the lines of LCAV blowing up the planet Hoplia, but just before this Jason was sent to Earth in a rocket (propelled grenade) and now champions Truth, Justice, and the Weaver Stance. :43:

stix213
10-21-2010, 12:04 PM
And the constitution wins again!

Peter.Steele
10-21-2010, 12:13 PM
Not a good analogy: after all, the Balrog was ultimately defeated. Think more on the lines of LCAV blowing up the planet Hoplia, but just before this Jason was sent to Earth in a rocket (propelled grenade) and now champions Truth, Justice, and the Weaver Stance. :43:


Ah, but was he? I don't think it specifically says he was killed, just that he was 'cast down' and that he smashed up Zirak-Zigil pretty thoroughly on his way down. And Gandalf did actually die at the time, he just was just higher in the favor of the Valar than the Balrog was. Morgoth didn't have the power anymore - or at least not the power to spare - to help out his boy.

And, wow, there's my nerd cred established for the day. Time to go read some XKCD now. :o

rodeoflyer
10-21-2010, 12:25 PM
Gents,

Jason is available to just fix these things because your donations to CGF fund his time. Please remember that freedom isn't free.

-Gene

I dropped the Benjamin already for the CCW cause this week, but I'll throw a couple Jacksons in the kitty right now just because this is what it's all about.

Awesome outcome.



:King:

MindBuilder
10-21-2010, 1:21 PM
In his original post he said he plead guilty to disturbing the peace. I forget the code number but one of the versions of disturbing the peace under California law has the use of force as an element of the offense. Thus if the disturbing the peace use of force was against a family member, then it was my understanding that it would be a prohibiting offense under Lautenberg. I'm wondering why that wouldn't apply in this case. Can others that have disturbing the peace convictions get relief?

Stonewalker
10-21-2010, 4:44 PM
WOAH! That awesome dude! OK, here comes a donation. It won't be too much but I'm going to start working a monthly donation into my budget. Thanks for kicking so much *** CGF! I drop your name every single fricken time I go to the range.

LCAV never could have predicted the angry giant they awoke when going after the Ring of Fire.

Sometimes I think Jason is the Balrog.








(I think that might be my nerdiest post ever)

Thanks, Jason - for doing what you do.


I totally approve of this post.

Midtown Gunner
10-21-2010, 8:49 PM
So, whose card should Sacramentans have on hand?

hoffmang
10-21-2010, 11:21 PM
So, whose card should Sacramentans have on hand?

Don Kilmer is an excellent start and depending on what the issue is there are even more local folks we can bring to bear.

-Gene

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 4:41 PM
I think there are a lot of people who would like to know if they can get their gun rights back after having plead guilty to disturbing the peace, like cowboy44 said he did in his original post. How did he get relief? Is it a secret, or did my last post just go unnoticed?

SVT-40
10-22-2010, 4:55 PM
Actually DOJ would not be the party who failed to properly update the record for the O/P. That responsibility would be handled by the court where he appeared. NICS are strictly a check through available records for prohibited information.

So at arrest the original charges would be input into the booking system by the police. Filings based on those charges would be the responsibility of the local district attorney. Conviction or plea information would be the responsibility of the clerk of the court where he made his plea.

So if the court clerk did not update the O/P's record related to the offense then the original Arrest information would still be there.

As much as some dislike the DOJ they are not the party who screwed up.

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 5:05 PM
What was the mistake that was made? cowboy44 said he plead guilty to disturbing the peace. My understanding was that that is a prohibiting offense. I don't see how any failure to update the arrest records is an issue here.

BigBamBoo
10-22-2010, 5:08 PM
...........

CSDGuy
10-22-2010, 5:28 PM
What was the mistake that was made? cowboy44 said he plead guilty to disturbing the peace. My understanding was that that is a prohibiting offense. I don't see how any failure to update the arrest records is an issue here.
Look at the list of prohibiting misdemeanors. You won't find convictions for PC 415 there...

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 5:37 PM
Look at the list of prohibiting misdemeanors. You won't find convictions for PC 415 there...
Disturbing the peace is not specified by California code to be a prohibiting offense, and neither does federal law explicitly specify it to be. But the federal Lautenberg law does specify that any misdemeanor crime of domestic violence is a prohibiting offense. The California disturbing the peace code does seem to qualify. Do others have a different interpretation? If so, what is their reasoning?

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 6:15 PM
It looks like under Lautenberg that an offense cannot be a prohibiting offense if there was no right to a jury trial for the offense. Do Californians have a right to a jury trial on a disturbing the peace charge? Lautenberg can still get you if you had a right to a jury trial but waived it.

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 6:39 PM
The DOJ seems to think that pleading guilty is waiving your right to a jury trial. But if you had no right to a jury trial, I don't see how pleading guilty is waiving a right you didn't have. Maybe if you plea bargained down from a higher charge where you had a right to a jury trial, it might be argued that you waived your right to a jury. But I don't see how the background checker could determine if the prosecutor really would have taken the original charges to a jury, or just dropped them. If he would have just dropped them for lack of evidence and pressed the lower charge, then you wouldn't have had a right to a jury.

dwh100
10-22-2010, 6:53 PM
CGF Donation sent!

anthonyca
10-22-2010, 7:03 PM
The DOJ seems to think that pleading guilty is waiving your right to a jury trial. But if you had no right to a jury trial, I don't see how pleading guilty is waiving a right you didn't have. Maybe if you plea bargained down from a higher charge where you had a right to a jury trial, it might be argued that you waived your right to a jury. But I don't see how the background checker could determine if the prosecutor really would have taken the original charges to a jury, or just dropped them. If he would have just dropped them for lack of evidence and pressed the lower charge, then you wouldn't have had a right to a jury.

Lautenberg is a crap law and needs to go. I suggest you start a thread asking your questions putting out some situations.

Ron-Solo
10-22-2010, 7:12 PM
The DOJ seems to think that pleading guilty is waiving your right to a jury trial. But if you had no right to a jury trial, I don't see how pleading guilty is waiving a right you didn't have. Maybe if you plea bargained down from a higher charge where you had a right to a jury trial, it might be argued that you waived your right to a jury. But I don't see how the background checker could determine if the prosecutor really would have taken the original charges to a jury, or just dropped them. If he would have just dropped them for lack of evidence and pressed the lower charge, then you wouldn't have had a right to a jury.

Any time you plead guilty (or 'No Contest') to anything higher than an infraction, you are waiving your right to a jury trial.

415 PC is a misdemeanor, but is often pled to as an infraction once it gets to court. There are many varieties of disturbing the peace under 415 PC. Only ones related to a domestic violence incident would kick in federal prohibitions.

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 7:23 PM
Here's a hypothetical from a lawyer that thinks 415 is a prohibiting offense: http://www.lawyer4u.org/San-Bernardino-Criminal-Defense-Blog/2010/August/Federal-vs-California-Gun-Ownership-Rights.aspx
Bob is convicted of Penal Code 415 PC, California’s "disturbing the peace" law for shoving his wife in public. This is not a crime that triggers any California firearms’ ban. But because the crime was
1. committed against Bob’s wife, and
2. involved physical force,
it falls under the Lautenberg Amendment and therefore subjects Bob to a lifetime federal ban on his gun rights.

I thought I heard somewhere that in California you don't have a right to a jury trial if the maximum sentence is less than 6 months. 415 is only for 90 days.

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 8:30 PM
It looks like the California Constitution guarantees the right to jury trial. It doesn't seem to make exception for lesser charges. I found a comment that it is federal charges less than 6 months that don't get jury trials. So it looks like maybe the jury trial exception to Lautenberg won't get you off prohibition from a California misdemeanor 415 charge.

Ron-Solo
10-22-2010, 9:12 PM
415 PC is eligible for a jury trial if filed as a misdemeanor. I've testified at many of them.

Lautenberg only kicks in on domestic violence issues.

A conviction under 415 PC for a noise violation would not.

MindBuilder
10-22-2010, 10:13 PM
Ron-Solo wrote:
Lautenberg only kicks in on domestic violence issues.
True. However federal courts have ruled that the offense need not specify DOMESTIC violence, as long as the actual incident was against a domestic relation and violence was an element of the offense. Before prohibiting one for a 415 conviction, the background checker would have to research the specific facts of the case to find out if it was against a domestic relation.

A conviction under 415 PC for a noise violation would not.
True again. Maybe it would be necessary for the conviction to explicitly be specified as being for part one of 415, which reads "(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight."

But then you could claim that you didn't plead to unlawfully fighting but rather to challenging someone to a fight. Challenging is not use of force or threatening the use of force, but rather just offering mutual combat. If the person has the option to decline the fight, then I don't see how it could be a prohibiting offense under Lautenberg. On the other hand if your plea included you admitting to shoving or punching the person, then you would probably still be prohibited.