PDA

View Full Version : Legality of selling a homebuilt AK


Glock21sfsd
10-20-2010, 12:23 PM
So I know I can not build an ak with the intent to sell it. But lets say in a few years I decide I dont want it anymore. Can I sell it then? I mean if laws dont prohibit it at that time!

Thanks fellas!

Jeff

69Mach1
10-20-2010, 12:26 PM
If you build it on and NDS or any other complete (dros'ed) receiver, you can sell it just like any other rifle out there.

dustoff31
10-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Yes, it's perfectly legal to sell it at some time in the future. There are some requirements for markings and/or serial numbers, I forget exactly what they are at the moment, but that's it.

69Mach1
10-20-2010, 12:27 PM
Even though a flat build is legal to sell, if properly marked, I don't recommend it.

CSACANNONEER
10-20-2010, 12:28 PM
If it is properly marked in accordance to Federal law (at the time of the sale), you would be able to sell it.

Glock21sfsd
10-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Cool thanks guys!

nicki
10-20-2010, 12:44 PM
Just make sure that if you put unique markings on each gun.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone was made say 1000 guns and put the same markings and serial numbers on each gun.

This could cause a lot of chaos, it could really screw up firearms registrations.

Nicki

CHS
10-20-2010, 12:50 PM
If it is properly marked in accordance to Federal law (at the time of the sale), you would be able to sell it.

The ATF maintains that in order to sell a homebuilt firearm/receiver, it must be marked in accordance with federal law, which would be at minimum a manufacturer name, city/state, and serial number.

However, the '68GCA to my knowledge ONLY regulates manufacturers. A homebuilder is NOT a manufacturer, which is why you lawfully do not have to mark your gun in the first place.

I don't believe that it's actually against the law to sell a post-'68 firearm that is not marked as long as it came from a homebuilder. I mean, there are millions of pre-'68 guns that have no markings or serial numbers, and you can still sell those in modern commercial trade.

But this is mostly mental masturbation. It probably is a good idea to mark the gun regardless if you're going to sell it. And it's hard enough to find FFL's who understand that pre-'68 guns don't always have markings and serial numbers. Try finding an FFL who would do the transfer on a modern gun!

CSACANNONEER
10-20-2010, 12:54 PM
The ATF maintains that in order to sell a homebuilt firearm/receiver, it must be marked in accordance with federal law, which would be at minimum a manufacturer name, city/state, and serial number.

However, the '68GCA to my knowledge ONLY regulates manufacturers. A homebuilder is NOT a manufacturer, which is why you lawfully do not have to mark your gun in the first place.

I don't believe that it's actually against the law to sell a firearm that is not marked as long as it came from a homebuilder. I mean, there are millions of pre-'68 guns that have no markings or serial numbers, and you can still sell those in modern commercial trade.

But this is mostly mental masturbation. It probably is a good idea to mark the gun regardless if you're going to sell it. And it's hard enough to find FFL's who understand that pre-'68 guns don't always have markings and serial numbers. Try finding an FFL who would do the transfer on a modern gun!

This is something I'm curious about myself. As long as I make it to SHOT, one of my questions for guys at the ATF booth will be about this and about selling homebuilt, unmarked guns AFTER the builder has died. Obviously, if the builder is gone, he/she can not mark it but, the gun is still a legal and functional firearm so..........?????????????

CHS
10-20-2010, 1:02 PM
This is something I'm curious about myself. As long as I make it to SHOT, one of my questions for guys at the ATF booth will be about this and about selling homebuilt, unmarked guns AFTER the builder has died. Obviously, if the builder is gone, he/she can not mark it but, the gun is still a legal and functional firearm so..........?????????????

Oh snap! That's an excellent point!

69Mach1
10-20-2010, 1:22 PM
Get it in writing.:)

madmike
10-20-2010, 1:55 PM
But this is mostly mental masturbation. I

When you get others involved in the thought process, wouldn't it be a mental circle jerk? Either way, it's an interesting question.


-madmike.

Wherryj
10-20-2010, 3:11 PM
Just make sure that if you put unique markings on each gun.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone was made say 1000 guns and put the same markings and serial numbers on each gun.

This could cause a lot of chaos, it could really screw up firearms registrations.

Nicki

We mustn't have that...LOL. I do agree, however, that this could cause some unpleasant issues.

Munk
10-20-2010, 4:41 PM
What if everyone at a CGN build party all used the same serial number but kept the rest of their MFG info accurate?
(F-CA-I<3RKBA)

I'm kind of ignorant about how info is presented when a serial# is run. I don't know if it's got a MFGR name with it, or just gun model? (i've never been at odds with an officer, so i haven't run into it yet)

timdps
10-20-2010, 5:07 PM
Just make sure that if you put unique markings on each gun.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone was made say 1000 guns and put the same markings and serial numbers on each gun.

This could cause a lot of chaos, it could really screw up firearms registrations.

Nicki

So Nikki, is this a suggestion...?:43:

CSACANNONEER
10-20-2010, 6:31 PM
What if everyone at a CGN build party all used the same serial number but kept the rest of their MFG info accurate?
(F-CA-I<3RKBA)

I'm kind of ignorant about how info is presented when a serial# is run. I don't know if it's got a MFGR name with it, or just gun model? (i've never been at odds with an officer, so i haven't run into it yet)

So? What if they did? How would that be any different than Colt making a SN 00001 for each different model of firearm they have produced? It would get real confusing if S&W also made a bunch of different firearms with 00001 as the SN. Of course, I can manufacture 25 AKs all with the same SN but different madel designations too. To make things more difficult for you to understand, did you know that there are millions of commercially produced firearms without any SN which can be bought and sold in this country?

CHS
10-20-2010, 6:46 PM
What if everyone at a CGN build party all used the same serial number but kept the rest of their MFG info accurate?
(F-CA-I<3RKBA)

I'm kind of ignorant about how info is presented when a serial# is run. I don't know if it's got a MFGR name with it, or just gun model? (i've never been at odds with an officer, so i haven't run into it yet)

That would be totally fine.

There are probably a hundred-thousand or more guns out there with serial #01.

When the ATF does a trace, they look at all the information and not just the serial number.

Cokebottle
10-20-2010, 6:51 PM
Even though a flat build is legal to sell, if properly marked, I don't recommend it.
If it is properly marked in accordance to Federal law (at the time of the sale), you would be able to sell it.
This.

The biggest issue is that "properly marked in accordance to Federal law" includes your name and city.

When I was planning an AK build, I was under the mistaken assumption that I could use a fictitious business name, but a homebuilt must be your legal name.


Do you really want a gun floating around out there that you have no control over, particularly one that could be rendered an AW (removal of the maglock) with your name and city on it?

FastFinger
10-20-2010, 6:55 PM
The ATF maintains that in order to sell a homebuilt firearm/receiver, it must be marked in accordance with federal law, which would be at minimum a manufacturer name, city/state, and serial number.

However, the '68GCA to my knowledge ONLY regulates manufacturers. A homebuilder is NOT a manufacturer, which is why you lawfully do not have to mark your gun in the first place.

I don't believe that it's actually against the law to sell a post-'68 firearm that is not marked as long as it came from a homebuilder. I mean, there are millions of pre-'68 guns that have no markings or serial numbers, and you can still sell those in modern commercial trade.

But this is mostly mental masturbation. It probably is a good idea to mark the gun regardless if you're going to sell it. And it's hard enough to find FFL's who understand that pre-'68 guns don't always have markings and serial numbers. Try finding an FFL who would do the transfer on a modern gun!

The AK has been around for over 50 years, who's even able to say when an unmarked AK was actually manufactured?

Cokebottle
10-20-2010, 6:55 PM
What if everyone at a CGN build party all used the same serial number but kept the rest of their MFG info accurate?
(F-CA-I<3RKBA)

I'm kind of ignorant about how info is presented when a serial# is run. I don't know if it's got a MFGR name with it, or just gun model? (i've never been at odds with an officer, so i haven't run into it yet)
Manufacturer name
City/State of manufacture
Model number
Serial number
Caliber (may be "multi" in the case of a receiver that can operate with more than one caliber)

"Model Number" and "Serial Number" is where people get creative (F-CA-I<3RKBA).