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Gray Peterson
10-14-2010, 11:24 PM
UPDATE (2015 March 03):

I was just at the sheriff's updated website and his updated CCW webpage (http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw).

Here's the GC and GMC part w/bolding added by me:

GOOD CAUSE FOR ISSUANCE:

The applicant must establish that there is good cause for the Sheriff to issue a California Concealed Weapons (CCW) license in the County of Sonoma. The defensive benefit of carrying a concealed firearm in public must be weighed against the risk of surprise to law enforcement, the risk of avoidable and dangerous conflict escalation in a public setting, and the risk to general public safety that discharging firearms poses to law enforcement and bystanders alike; therefore, the Sheriff has determined that good cause to issue a CCW license will generally only exist in conditions of necessity. Accordingly, applicants should be able to provide convincing evidence of the following:

(a) There is an existing and significant threat of death or grave bodily injury to the applicant, or his/her immediate family, which cannot be reasonably avoided or adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which threat would be significantly mitigated by the carrying of a concealed weapon.

(b) The applicant establishes that circumstances exist requiring him or her to transport in public significant amounts of valuable, or inherently dangerous property, which would be impractical to entrust to the protection of an armored car or equivalent service for the safe transportation of valuables.

(c) The applicant is currently employed by a security firm having all requisite licenses, and provides satisfactory proof that his or her work is of a nature that requires the carrying of a concealed weapon in public.

(d) The applicant is a duly appointed Sonoma County Reserve Deputy as defined in Penal Code § 830.6.

(e) The applicant is a member of the magistrate either presiding and/or residing in the County of Sonoma.

MORAL CHARACTER / GOOD JUDGEMENT

Applicants must demonstrate that they have a history of using sound judgment, and that their everyday lives are unsullied by traits that may impair their ability to safely handle a firearm, under stress, in a public setting. A determination as to one's moral character and judgment is discretionary, and based on the totality of the applicants qualifications presented on a case by case basis. Factors or traits which will bear negatively on issuance are:

(a) A long-term history of mental or emotional instability, alcoholism, drug use or addiction to controlled substances.

(b) A history of fault in serious accidents with firearms, automobiles or other dangerous instruments / equipment.

(c) A history of citations, arrests, convictions, civil law suits, employment discharges, license denials, license revocations or other actions indicating a possible propensity for violence, moral turpitude, dishonesty, or carelessness with weapons.

UPDATE: The Sonoma sheriff gutted the Good Cause requirement after Peruta 3-judge panel decision, but reversed course when it was stayed 2 weeks later:

PERUTA v. COUNTY of SAN DIEGO

On 2/13/2014 the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office dropped the "good cause" standard for issuing conceal carry permits after the requirement was struck down that day by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. The court ruled that the Second Amendment bars California counties from requiring law-abiding gun owners who want to carry concealed firearms to demonstrate special, individualized needs for protection.

On 2/28/2014, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided to withdraw their decision in the above case by a decision to rehear the case En Banc. The Court has ordered a stay on the issuance of their previous mandate from 2/13/2014, which only required an applicant to state a need of “self defense” as their reason for desiring a CCW License. Therefore, as of 2/28/14 the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office will revert back to requiring all applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office Policy 219 and California Penal Code section 26150(a)(2).

From: https://www.facebook.com/sonoma.sheriff/posts/10203383356527670

Anyone who gets denied in Sonoma Co (either by a city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.

So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

wildhawker
10-22-2010, 5:57 PM
We'll have some news on Sonoma, as well as Good Cause statements, soon.

-Brandon

madmike
10-22-2010, 7:38 PM
This is excellent news! I eagerly await further instructions.
-madmike.

tankerman
10-27-2010, 12:29 PM
Standing by for Good Cause Statements.

Has a list of current CCW holders been obtained from the Sheriff?

I'd like to know how many 'political friends' of the Sheriff and the Board of Supervisors have been issued permits.

stevea2003
11-01-2010, 9:07 AM
I am an alarm company owner and applied about six months ago and was rejected stating not good enough cause.
I am very interested in acceptable good cause statement. I thought my statement was very good but I think Sonoma County just doesn't issue permits unless you have friends in high places.

Rocket Man
11-13-2010, 11:31 PM
We have a convicted child rapist living two blocks away from our beautiful blond 5yr old daughter....
Remember Poly Klaus, happened around here, taken from her own home to be raped & murdered....
I doubt our local sheriff would let my wife & I CCW even though we hold current NV CCW permits....

Thank you Calguns for fighting for our rights!

stix213
11-18-2010, 3:42 PM
I recently donated enough to push Sonoma County over the fund raising target. Hopefully that will bump our county up a little higher on the fix it list :D I'm holding off on applying after I read that the Sonoma County Sheriff's office uses previous denials as reason for future denials (That's in Gray's link in his first post here).

Awaiting the call for "volunteers" though :)

Soldier415
11-24-2010, 8:12 AM
Subbing thread

obeygiant
11-24-2010, 8:39 AM
Standing by for Good Cause Statements.

Has a list of current CCW holders been obtained from the Sheriff?

I'd like to know how many 'political friends' of the Sheriff and the Board of Supervisors have been issued permits.

They have not produced the responsive documents yet.

tankerman
11-26-2010, 8:35 PM
They have not produced the responsive documents yet.
The typical stalling.
Must be good list of pay-to-play political donors.


Using prior denials as reason for future denials amounts to an implied threat.

Dirmer3
11-29-2010, 7:27 PM
I recently donated enough to push Sonoma County over the fund raising target. Hopefully that will bump our county up a little higher on the fix it list :D I'm holding off on applying after I read that the Sonoma County Sheriff's office uses previous denials as reason for future denials (That's in Gray's link in his first post here).

Awaiting the call for "volunteers" though :)

Thank you! Now c'mon, let's get this movin' out here!

dantodd
12-02-2010, 1:45 AM
Sorry for the delay guys. Short list, only nine outstanding CCWs according to the sheriff.

As usual, you can download the docs from the CGF website: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/137-sonoma

Soldier415
12-02-2010, 8:15 AM
I looked at the section 219 regarding CCW issuance. On page 5 where it states that by mutual agreement, each agency will only issue to those residing in its jurisdiction.

Says that if you live in a city, the sheriff will force you to apply to them. Is that little tidbit of illegal policy being addressed?

madmike
12-02-2010, 8:38 AM
These good cause statements don't look like they'll help me (although I can't even afford the $20 it would take to find out right now). Are these all there are, or just all they would give up so far? This is a fascinating project, I can't wait to see how it turns out!

dantodd
12-02-2010, 9:39 AM
I looked at the section 219 regarding CCW issuance. On page 5 where it states that by mutual agreement, each agency will only issue to those residing in its jurisdiction.

Says that if you live in a city, the sheriff will force you to apply to them. Is that little tidbit of illegal policy being addressed?

I can say that this fact wasn't missed. It is also good to have it IN WRITING.

dantodd
12-02-2010, 9:41 AM
These good cause statements don't look like they'll help me (although I can't even afford the $20 it would take to find out right now). Are these all there are, or just all they would give up so far? This is a fascinating project, I can't wait to see how it turns out!

There is conflicting information from the various sources. Brandon is looking into it to determine if there are applications missing or if there was was inaccurate reporting of permit totals elsewhere.

wildhawker
12-02-2010, 10:17 AM
I looked at the section 219 regarding CCW issuance. On page 5 where it states that by mutual agreement, each agency will only issue to those residing in its jurisdiction.

Says that if you live in a city, the sheriff will force you to apply to them. Is that little tidbit of illegal policy being addressed?

Yes, it's on the radar, but no, we haven't found a Sonoma resident desiring to take that on. Wanna play?

-Brandon

MudCamper
12-02-2010, 11:51 AM
Most of the GC statements are from cops or retired cops. That doesn't help us. Does the sheriff only issue to cops, or did he only release these kinds of GC statements, in an effort to roadblock the Sunshine Initiative? Maybe I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but it seems like the kind of tactic that an anti-gun anti-citizen sheriff would pull.

wildhawker
12-02-2010, 12:00 PM
I'll be following up to ensure they've provided all GC statements. The #s do not reconcile.

Soldier415
12-02-2010, 12:10 PM
Most of the GC statements are from cops or retired cops. That doesn't help us. Does the sheriff only issue to cops, or did he only release these kinds of GC statements, in an effort to roadblock the Sunshine Initiative? Maybe I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but it seems like the kind of tactic that an anti-gun anti-citizen sheriff would pull.
I was thnking the same thing. I'd imagine there are more than 9 or 10 CCWs issued in the whole county.

madmike
12-02-2010, 12:29 PM
There is conflicting information from the various sources. Brandon is looking into it to determine if there are applications missing or if there was was inaccurate reporting of permit totals elsewhere.

Let me know if I can assist.

Soldier415
12-02-2010, 12:36 PM
Yes, it's on the radar, but no, we haven't found a Sonoma resident desiring to take that on. Wanna play?

-Brandon
I'd love to, but we discussed my current predicament that precludes it.

BigDogatPlay
12-08-2010, 11:00 AM
Sorry for the delay guys. Short list, only nine outstanding CCWs according to the sheriff.

That number seems very low, and may well be for the sheriff's office only. That said, if you PRAR'ed each of the nine incorporated cities I'd wager you might not find too many more.

Sheriff Cogbill, outgoing, was not renewing a lot of permits over the past few years as they came up for renewal and wasn't interested in new applications. There were members who posted here and elsewhere about exactly that.

stix213
12-29-2010, 2:46 PM
Any news on the discrepancy between the number of good cause statements expected and the number the county actually produced?

Soldier415
12-30-2010, 9:04 AM
Any news on the discrepancy between the number of good cause statements expected and the number the county actually produced?
This

ssteve
12-30-2010, 9:58 AM
anyone know Steve Freitas's ideals on CCW's, and when will he be the new active sheriff?

stix213
12-30-2010, 11:35 AM
anyone know Steve Freitas's ideals on CCW's, and when will he be the new active sheriff?

He believes self defense alone isn't good cause. If you aren't wealthy with lots of property your life apparently should just wait for the deputies to arrive.

Funny how he starts out saying he supports the 2nd amendment, and follows up with saying you'll need to meet the "good cause standard" to utilize it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11105248

From: steve@freitasforsheriff2010.com
To: shaunbootsma@hotmail.com
Subject:
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:58:43 -0800

Mr. Bootsma,

Thank you for your e mail about CCW's in Sonoma County. First off, I support the 2nd amendment to the Constitution.

As for CCW's, the issue is the Penal Code section that says there must be "good cause" to issue the CCW. Different people have varying opinions on what "good cause" means. I know the Sheriff issues more CCW's then our law enforcement colleagues in the cities. For example, the city of Santa Rosa, with a population very similar to the unincorporated areas of the County, has 1 CCW issued to the best of my knowledge. On the other hand, the Sheriff currently has about 70 issued.

As for my position, I think I can best describe it by using an example. At a recent public meeting a rancher from the West County told me his story. He has several different properties and this requires him the use public roads to get to and from the various locations. At one of the locations he found evidence of marijuana being grown illegally on his property. He applied for a CCW but was turned down. In this situation I would have issued the CCW.

However, I need to point out that I did not check to see if this person was denied for some other reason and I did not verify his story. Either way the example is one that I can point to where I believe the ranchers story would meet the "good cause" standard in the Penal Code.

Each case needs to be looked at individually to see if it meets the "good cause" standard. I hope this example helps to explain, at least in this case, what my position is on the "good cause" question.

If you want to give me a specific example of your own I would be happy to answer it.

Thank you,


Steve Freitas
Freitas for Sheriff 2010
PO Box 869
Windsor, Ca 95492
(707) 570-1900

stix213
12-30-2010, 11:47 AM
You'll note that Steve Freitas as of march believed that 70 CCW's were currently issued specifically by the sheriff's department. Which again doesn't match with what we have been provided.

Super Spy
12-30-2010, 11:49 AM
Most of the GC statements are from cops or retired cops. That doesn't help us. Does the sheriff only issue to cops, or did he only release these kinds of GC statements, in an effort to roadblock the Sunshine Initiative? Maybe I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but it seems like the kind of tactic that an anti-gun anti-citizen sheriff would pull.

Same thing I noticed....so unless you're rich and live on 1000 acres in the sticks, or affiliated with Law Enforcement, you are SOL.

ssteve
12-30-2010, 12:17 PM
hmmm, I live on a 8 acre horse ranch in the south west portion of santa rosa where there have been mountain lion attacks, drug houses, cock fighting rings, etc etc. I wonder if I can persuade him somehow....?

GillaFunk
12-30-2010, 1:38 PM
oooh..subscribed!

I'd be interested in applying now that I have a job which may give me more than a 'good cause'

ssteve
12-30-2010, 3:16 PM
Emailed him a letter, hopefully response time is decent.

stix213
12-30-2010, 5:41 PM
Emailed him a letter, hopefully response time is decent.

I couldn't resist, I sent him an e-mail as well. My e-mail below. I think I did a good job writing it :p


CCW in Sonoma County question

Recently CCW issuance has become a hot button issue in CA due to the vast majority of the country going "shall issue" followed by the Heller and McDonald supreme court decisions confirming the right to individual self defense use of firearms as the core right protected by the 2nd amendment and the incorporation of this against the state, county, city, and other local governments.

Being that only holders of valid county or city issued CCW permits can legally "bear" functional arms in the state of California as described in the 2nd amendment per the penal code, and the Sheriff of Sonoma County must abide by both the US constitution (including the Supreme Court's interpretation of it) and California penal codes, I am asking what your position will be as Sonoma County Sheriff as to what constitutes "good cause" to issue a CCW permit?

The outgoing sheriff's policy was established when the courts in CA understood the 2nd amendment to protect a collective right, and not an individual right, so his policy of near no issue could be understandable in that context. Though in light of the total shift in 2A law this last year due to the previously mentioned SCOTUS decisions, can I assume a shift in Sonoma County's policy as well in the same way Sacramento County now accepts "self defense" as good cause in the aftermath of these landmark court decisions?

MudCamper
12-31-2010, 9:00 AM
Emailed him a letter, hopefully response time is decent.

I emailed the new sheriff a month ago. Never got a response.

ssteve
12-31-2010, 9:05 AM
I dont exactly expect he will return it, but at least I can say that I attempted to go through the proper legal channels. He enters as the new sheriff on Jan 3rd at noon, so Ill hold off putting in my ccw app till after then and just hope for the best.

Sonic_mike
12-31-2010, 9:26 AM
Subscribing.

Gray Peterson
12-31-2010, 9:57 AM
I couldn't resist, I sent him an e-mail as well. My e-mail below. I think I did a good job writing it :p

He's gonna cite Peruta in his defense.

stix213
12-31-2010, 2:01 PM
He's gonna cite Peruta in his defense.

Yeah I would agree unfortunately.

tankerman
01-02-2011, 7:56 PM
Yes, it's on the radar, but no, we haven't found a Sonoma resident desiring to take that on. Wanna play?

-Brandon
Unfortunately I just moved to an unincorporated area, so I'm under the Sheriff's jurisdiction.

Sounds risky to apply if the Sheriff is still using a CCW permit denial as an excuse for future denials. Any ideas on how to thwart this type of preemptive retaliation tactic?

I want a CCW permit.

GillaFunk
01-15-2011, 3:52 PM
I would like to try getting mine.

I was going to try THIS (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5345191&postcount=1) but the link is bad. Any ideas?

ssteve
01-15-2011, 6:20 PM
I would like to try getting mine.

I was going to try THIS (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5345191&postcount=1) but the link is bad. Any ideas?

Link works for me... However I see this as more of a way to help cover your ***** incase uoc gets you in trouble some how(I do not plan to uoc as I see no point in carrying a unloaded paper weight) not the best way to actually obtaining a ccw with Officer Freitas. My friends who work for SO have heard rumor that he will be more willing to grant them to people with land/ranches/convincing good cause statements. So my plan is simply to state my best case for why I fall into that catagory. Seems like a better approach then to hope he wants everyone willing to copy and paste to have a ccw. Just my $.02

GillaFunk
01-15-2011, 6:38 PM
Rather, the linky HERE no worky :(

2. Fill out the "Fillable DOJ CCW Application (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/DOJ_CCW_App_Fillable.pdf)" as instructed in the application itself.

I dont consider myself 'gun extreme', I simply feel that given the existing laws, a reputable upstanding citizen should be allowed to arm himself, against criminals who are illegally armed.

And, if I prove that Im not crazy, that I have no criminal record or questionable personal history, have no reason to be considered a person who could be a threat to society if 'awarded' a CCW, jump through all the hoops and maintain good standing, the good cause as identified really should be good enough.

But.....I need to talk to more peeps about this.

ssteve
01-15-2011, 6:46 PM
ahh yeah no idea on that..



Question. Since the Sheriff and chief of police have the ccw issueing power, can we submit a ccw application to the chief if the sheriff rejects it?

hoffmang
01-15-2011, 7:10 PM
The link is temporarily broken. Use the Solano County application (http://www.co.solano.ca.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=10137) and just remove the first page until the link returns.

-Gene

hoffmang
01-15-2011, 7:11 PM
Question. Since the Sheriff and chief of police have the ccw issueing power, can we submit a ccw application to the chief if the sheriff rejects it?

Yes you can but I have no idea if that would be helpful to you.

-Gene

stix213
01-25-2011, 4:19 PM
Any news on the discrepancy between the number of good cause statements expected and the number the county actually produced?

My question here a month ago got buried without a response. Any movement or update?

Soldier415
02-03-2011, 3:42 PM
My question here a month ago got buried without a response. Any movement or update?
This?

elkhorn98
02-06-2011, 7:08 AM
Anybody submit their application to the new sheriff?

GillaFunk
02-07-2011, 7:30 AM
I started filling mine out then got word I I may be getting laid off......

still undecided what to do.....

1st5
02-08-2011, 2:21 PM
I'm in Petaluma so I'd have to apply to the Chief. I'd sure like to try.

Soldier415
02-09-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm in Petaluma so I'd have to apply to the Chief. I'd sure like to try.
Per the law, they cannot require you to apply to the police cheif. You can apply to the Sheriff or the Chief LEO. Your choice

1st5
02-09-2011, 4:30 PM
thanks Dan, I thought it was the other way around.

tankerman
02-12-2011, 8:22 PM
The link is temporarily broken. Use the Solano County application (http://www.co.solano.ca.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=10137) and just remove the first page until the link returns.

-Gene
So does this mean applying for a CCW in Sonoma County is now a good idea?

junkilo
02-14-2011, 10:11 AM
So does this mean applying for a CCW in Sonoma County is now a good idea?

yes. new sherrif. they couldn't tighten the reins anymore if they wanted to. stands to reason that things can only improve, but nobody has any info yet on whether were going to see more CCWs in soco. most of us are waiting for concrete info before investing in trying.

tankerman
02-14-2011, 10:19 AM
So then are you telling me that the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office is no longer using CCW permit denial and a reason for future CCW permit denials?
yes. new sherrif. they couldn't tighten the reins anymore if they wanted to. stands to reason that things can only improve, but nobody has any info yet on whether were going to see more CCWs in soco. most of us are waiting for concrete info before investing in trying.

junkilo
02-14-2011, 10:26 AM
no, I'm saying that there is reason to be optimistic, but that we don't have any concrete info yet that anything is going to change.

So then are you telling me that the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office is no longer using CCW permit denial and a reason for future CCW permit denials?

tankerman
02-14-2011, 1:19 PM
no, I'm saying that there is reason to be optimistic, but that we don't have any concrete info yet that anything is going to change.
Optimism is what you based your 'yes, do it now' response?

I'm looking for more than 'optimism'.

I think I'll wait for a response from someone with a bit more knowledge.

zinfull
02-25-2011, 7:36 AM
I talked to a LEO and his opinion is that the new sheriff is a clone of the old sheriff.

jerry

rgs1975
02-25-2011, 12:56 PM
I talked to a LEO and his opinion is that the new sheriff is a clone of the old sheriff.

jerry

Well isn't that dandy.

tankerman
02-28-2011, 3:59 PM
Has there been any pressure applied to this sheriff?

wildhawker
02-28-2011, 4:02 PM
Has there been any pressure applied to this sheriff?

Indirect; there are a few other ongoing matters (news soon) that need to resolve before moving into Sonoma. Unless your good cause is materially similar to one already approved, we do not expect a high rate of approval at this time.

tankerman
02-28-2011, 4:25 PM
Indirect; there are a few other ongoing matters (news soon) that need to resolve before moving into Sonoma. Unless your good cause is materially similar to one already approved, we do not expect a high rate of approval at this time.
So you either need to rich and own a large property or be LEO/retired LEO?

Well let me know when things change or if you need a test case, cause I'm willing to participate.

stix213
03-01-2011, 11:12 AM
Indirect; there are a few other ongoing matters (news soon) that need to resolve before moving into Sonoma. Unless your good cause is materially similar to one already approved, we do not expect a high rate of approval at this time.

Glad we haven't been forgotten out here

So you either need to rich and own a large property or be LEO/retired LEO?


That pretty much sums it up

Dirmer3
03-18-2011, 6:04 PM
can anyone direct me to who I need to talk to about whether my good cause statement is good enough? I'd really appreciate it.

stix213
03-21-2011, 11:41 AM
can anyone direct me to who I need to talk to about whether my good cause statement is good enough? I'd really appreciate it.

The idea right now is if your good cause statement matches one of the previously approved statements, then its good enough. If it doesn't then it probably isn't good enough.

tankerman
04-25-2011, 5:48 PM
No news in Sonoma County?

ottomatic
04-28-2011, 9:06 PM
Subscribed.

It really is disgusting that if you live across a line to the north of sonoma county it only takes two words for a good cause statment "Personal Protection".

Does the Sheriff not think about all the people from mendocino county running around his (cause he is just power tripping) county.
My friends always CC when they are here because 1) they can 2) to rub it in my face. Hell at this point I would be happy to get my CCW and have a restriction on it not allowing me to carry in sonoma county because that would be a start in the right direction and I could carry in the rest of the state.

Ultimately I feel that not being able to get a CCW in your county is unjust because it bars you from carrying in the rest of the state, which our sheriff should have no say in.

Sorry.. just had to add my .02 cents. This has always rubbed me the wrong way.

stix213
04-29-2011, 5:49 PM
Subscribed.

It really is disgusting that if you live across a line to the north of sonoma county it only takes two words for a good cause statment "Personal Protection".

Does the Sheriff not think about all the people from mendocino county running around his (cause he is just power tripping) county.
My friends always CC when they are here because 1) they can 2) to rub it in my face. Hell at this point I would be happy to get my CCW and have a restriction on it not allowing me to carry in sonoma county because that would be a start in the right direction and I could carry in the rest of the state.

Ultimately I feel that not being able to get a CCW in your county is unjust because it bars you from carrying in the rest of the state, which our sheriff should have no say in.

Sorry.. just had to add my .02 cents. This has always rubbed me the wrong way.

I agree. I've even considered moving up to mendocino county, but commuting to San Francisco each day would be difficult.

707electrician
04-29-2011, 5:53 PM
I too have considered moving to mendocino county but my girlfriend is going to be transferring to sonoma state and she doesn't want to move and she works in novato.

Im thinking about moving to Sac in a couple years when she transfers back to Sac state but that might be too much of a commute for me

MudCamper
05-03-2011, 3:44 PM
Is there anything I can do to help in this effort? Do you need any legwork to the Sheriff's office or the County Clerk or court house or anything like that. I'm growing weary of just sitting on my hands. I want to do something useful.

tankerman
05-03-2011, 8:48 PM
Is there anything I can do to help in this effort? Do you need any legwork to the Sheriff's office or the County Clerk or court house or anything like that. I'm growing weary of just sitting on my hands. I want to do something useful.
Me too.

wildhawker
05-04-2011, 1:23 AM
Yes, there's some opportunity coming up. Please be patient for just a short time longer, then plan on having some room to work.

-Brandon

ElvisShotFirst
05-06-2011, 2:24 PM
I live in Windsor in sonoma county and am about to apply for a ccw with what I believe is good cause. An employee in the company I run is a bit emotionally disturbed an over instant message threatened to come in to the office and kill all the employees. We contacted the police etc, but they are hesitant to do anything. Terrible situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

707electrician
05-06-2011, 2:58 PM
Yes, there's some opportunity coming up. Please be patient for just a short time longer, then plan on having some room to work.

-Brandon

You are such a tease :D

Rocket Man
05-09-2011, 9:02 PM
Subscribed.

"It really is disgusting that if you live across a line to the north of sonoma county it only takes two words for a good cause statment "Personal Protection".....
....Ultimately I feel that not being able to get a CCW in your county is unjust because it bars you from carrying in the rest of the state, which our sheriff should have no say in. "

Sorry.. just had to add my .02 cents. This has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Amen brother!
This is so un-American, how many of us have to travel to less than desirable parts because of our job...

or go on date night with the wife & need to pay the babysitter... so I have to visit the ATM at 1AM....

Last weekend we spent time up in Mendo BUT because my house happends to be a few miles south of that place I cannot CC to protect my family but the people who live there can....:confused:

:mad:!!!!!!!!!!!RANT!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:


Deep breath....

ok almost better now (just remembered I'll get to pick up my new EMP40 soon:D)

ottomatic
05-09-2011, 9:46 PM
I live in Windsor in sonoma county and am about to apply for a ccw with what I believe is good cause. An employee in the company I run is a bit emotionally disturbed an over instant message threatened to come in to the office and kill all the employees. We contacted the police etc, but they are hesitant to do anything. Terrible situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

That probably wont be enough to get your CCW around these parts. But let us know if you are going apply, I think they were looking for a volunteer.

From my personal experience the local PD (santa rosa) will get to your location after your beyond screwed. I lived a block and a half away from the HQ and it took them 5 minutes to get there. Both suspects trying to kick in my door were not found. Probably cause the PD looked around for less than a minute and left. No joke on that. That is why I bought my USP.

ottomatic
05-09-2011, 9:50 PM
Amen brother!

Last weekend we spent time up in Mendo BUT because my house happends to be a few miles south of that place I cannot CC to protect my family but the people who live there can....:confused:



I sometimes wondered what it would be like to live up by Cloverdale and know that the people just north of you can CC but you are not able to. (not saying you live in cloverdale)

It just doesn't logically make sense to me. But in the end that is 'me', not the powers that be.

ElvisShotFirst
05-10-2011, 7:55 AM
That probably wont be enough to get your CCW around these parts. But let us know if you are going apply, I think they were looking for a volunteer.

From my personal experience the local PD (santa rosa) will get to your location after your beyond screwed. I lived a block and a half away from the HQ and it took them 5 minutes to get there. Both suspects trying to kick in my door were not found. Probably cause the PD looked around for less than a minute and left. No joke on that. That is why I bought my USP.

I am going to start filling out my forms to apply for ccw today. What exactly do you mean "they are looking for a volunteer"? A volunteer for what?

ottomatic
05-10-2011, 4:04 PM
I am going to start filling out my forms to apply for ccw today. What exactly do you mean "they are looking for a volunteer"? A volunteer for what?

To apply at some point, but probably further down the road. Read post's # 7,17,48,62 again.

707electrician
05-10-2011, 5:46 PM
I am going to start filling out my forms to apply for ccw today. What exactly do you mean "they are looking for a volunteer"? A volunteer for what?

You will know when they want the volunteers. The title will say "time to apply"

Then it is up to us to flood the sheriffs office with our CCW apps

rgs1975
05-10-2011, 6:11 PM
You will know when they want the volunteers. The title will say "time to apply"

Then it is up to us to flood the sheriffs office with our CCW apps

I only check this thread when I get subscription email notifications. Hopefully when the title gets changed the OP will post a reply as well to trigger the notification.

ElvisShotFirst
05-11-2011, 9:06 AM
Thanks for the info.

Ism415
05-18-2011, 4:36 PM
I am moving into petaluma July first I thought it was going to be a lot better then marin on getting my ccw.... Its looking like not so much? Thats lame.... I don't get it

Rocket Man
05-20-2011, 7:25 PM
I am moving into petaluma July first I thought it was going to be a lot better then marin on getting my ccw.... Its looking like not so much? Thats lame.... I don't get it

Welcome to Petaluma!

It is very lame- took the wife & kids up to Cow mountain shooting & traveling through Mendocino I couldn't help but think how unfair it is that they can CCW in MY state but because my address is just down the freeway in the next county I cant CCW in MY state!

OH but I can CCW in 31 OTHER states with the non-res permits I carry, twisted indeed...

LadyShooter
05-30-2011, 9:02 PM
Concealed carry holster-check, conceal carry weapon-check, conceal carry weapon permit. . . .for nearly everywhere but here.

Still waiting :whistling:

Cozy_3
07-25-2011, 5:49 PM
Any updates?

stix213
07-25-2011, 5:51 PM
Any updates?

Damn I saw the Sonoma County thread had movement, so I went to check on the updates only to find this :p

rgs1975
07-25-2011, 6:17 PM
Damn I saw the Sonoma County thread had movement, so I went to check on the updates only to find this :p

ditto

GillaFunk
07-28-2011, 1:38 PM
Without sounding like a winey spoiled brat;

What EXACTLY are we waiting for?
1) A Shall issue Sheriff?
2) A volunteer who's not:
-politically linked to the sheriff, a rich land owner, or LEO?
3) CGF Legal Department to bite into Sonoma County?
4) A piece of berry pie?

stix213
07-29-2011, 8:35 AM
Without sounding like a winey spoiled brat;

What EXACTLY are we waiting for?
1) A Shall issue Sheriff?
2) A volunteer who's not:
-politically linked to the sheriff, a rich land owner, or LEO?
3) CGF Legal Department to bite into Sonoma County?
4) A piece of berry pie?

Residents of Sonoma county are probably not going to vote for a shall issue sheriff in my estimation :( Will one even run?

A little off topic, but I went and picked up a Ruger LCP in Sac county yesterday, and the guy in the gun shop asked, "So you getting this for a carry gun?" I was confused for a second, before I realized where I was.

GillaFunk
07-29-2011, 1:03 PM
Lame

ottomatic
08-12-2011, 12:24 PM
I was going to ask "ElvisShotFirst" if there was any update on his LTC process but it seems he is banned now. oh well.

Edit: Just going to apply like normal. Using "Personal Protection".

I was thinking about applying my self but putting something that has a restriction to carry in sonoma co. on my good cause statement, since the issuing party can have restrictions on your LTC;

so specifically stating that carrying in sonoma county is restricted, thus I am not asking to carry in Sonoma Co. granting me a licence to carry in the rest of the state. something along those lines. I know that moots the point of a LTC if you never leave the county but 1: i spend a lot of time in mendo county, where the S.O. admits that your better off with a LTC. 2: I get a LTC for the state minus Sonoma Co. Which is a small step in the right direction.

Since I dont work n Mendo Co. I dont think that Sonoma could fall back on the 90 work related LTC crap and deny me for that.

I just don't want to flat out apply with a form of 'Personal Protection of my family etc' because that obviously wont work.

I am trying to justify my re-qualification up at the Ukiah gun range, and do "something". I don't have the time to sue the S.O. at this point. Maybe a year from now.

Sorry for the movement on the thread!

I always get excited...then disappointed too

tankerman
08-19-2011, 8:55 PM
Good cause statements for privileged classes of people.

I have a feeling my only opportunity at CCW is going to come by moving out of state.

ddestruel
08-31-2011, 11:08 PM
..........Will one even run?...........

...........

this, since CA law is pretty restrictive on who can run it has to be one of the fraternity.......Even being related to a previous SC sheriff never gave way to any advancement of shall issue over numerous christmas discussions and the battle continues shoot i couldnt even talk him into a ltc owning a business and doing deposits etc.

stix213
10-20-2011, 2:27 PM
The recent report from the CGF on all active LTC's lists 45 active civilian LTC's for Sonoma County. Only 9 good cause statements were provided by the Sheriff's dept, and some of them would not fit into the "civilian" category.

Is Sonoma County holding out on these additional good cause statements? Why don't we have at least 45 good cause statements available? I'm betting all the good ones were withheld.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/41-2011-ca-doj-data-active-ltc-report.html

ottomatic
10-21-2011, 7:07 AM
curious about stix213's question too...
not trying to deter attention to you question I Just wanted to share some info and experience:

Back in August I decided to not re-qualify with my pistol in Ukiah.
I usually went the same day that my friends in mendo county would go.

In case you don't know,
Sheriff Allman usually shows up during the classes to express his thanks for you taking the steps to get a LTC,
"people are going to do it [LTC] illegally anyway". Goes on to explain his view on the issue of personal protection etc. Great guy.
For re-qualification Sheriff Allman and/or staff are there to immediately do the paperwork to renew your LTC.
Must be nice to have a SO which expedites the process as much as they can.

Anyway I should have went to re-qual so I could post the following info and say that it was told to me directly.
Knowing that I/we are screwed in SoCo my friend asked Allman about Frietas and issuing.

Allman: "I have talked with Sheriff Freitas and he has agreed to increase the public CCW count by 60."

That is all I know. no details. nothing else.

What does that mean for us? probably nothing since my friend didn't think to ask about "good cause".

on another note:

When I called the sonoma SO [Wendy] and asked about filling out the application, section 7,
she acted like i had acquired a forbidden document.
Eventually she wanted to send me a application since they have their own rules/instructions.
I never received anything and I don't have time to mess with it right now.

Her number is 565-2185 and she is the person handling the applications if you ever wanted to call about a LTC.

Soldier415
10-21-2011, 3:32 PM
If anyone is interested, I have a copy of the Sonoma County Sheriff's and Police Chief's Association written CCW Issuance Policy.

mag360
10-27-2011, 8:10 PM
need a test case? Family member from a 100+ years Petaluma family wants a carry license.

tankerman
11-09-2011, 5:00 AM
If anyone is interested, I have a copy of the Sonoma County Sheriff's and Police Chief's Association written CCW Issuance Policy.
Yes, I'd like a copy.


Were you successful?

TRD
11-11-2011, 6:23 PM
If anyone is interested, I have a copy of the Sonoma County Sheriff's and Police Chief's Association written CCW Issuance Policy.

I would also like a copy please!

floridaone2
11-18-2011, 1:11 PM
I would also like a copy thank you

UndaCovaCalGunna
11-19-2011, 11:07 AM
If you feel you are getting the runaround you could consider filing a grand jury complaint on the ccw process. This was done in Solano and the jurors posed as applicants to witness the process 1st hand. They were quite pissed at the runaround they got from the various agencies. It may or may not have any effect on the issuance of permits, but at least it would make the issue public record.

TheBest
01-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Subscribing...

Nothing heard for 2012?

MudCamper
01-05-2012, 3:20 PM
Nothing heard for 2012?

Sadly I think Sonoma will be one of those counties that will never issue unless we win in federal court and federal marshals come to arrest the Sheriff.

tankerman
01-05-2012, 7:57 PM
Sadly I think Sonoma will be one of those counties that will never issue unless we win in federal court and federal marshals come to arrest the Sheriff.

I don't know....Dan has been quiet on this subject lately.
I'm curious how his application process went.

edrex
01-13-2012, 9:17 AM
*subscribed*

LadyShooter
01-19-2012, 9:42 PM
Still waiting. . .:wheelchair:

Rocket Man
01-23-2012, 9:14 AM
Still waiting. . .:wheelchair:


:oji: Young Lady I've been waiting longer!
:stupid:






:twoweeks:





:banghead:





:beatdeadhorse5:


patiently waiting........
patient [pey-shuhnt] noun, adjective; bearing provocation, annoyance, misfortune, delay, hardship, pain, etc., with fortitude and calm and without complaint, anger, or the like. (OK maybe a little complaint & anger lol)

stix213
01-23-2012, 3:50 PM
So much activity in this thread after months of inactivity, yet nada! Every time I see this bumped to the top I am hoping to see some status update. sigh......

1st5
01-23-2012, 3:55 PM
Since everyone else is bumping this thread and causing alerts I may as well too!

:hide:

Yes, patiently waiting.

707electrician
01-23-2012, 4:49 PM
So much activity in this thread after months of inactivity, yet nada! Every time I see this bumped to the top I am hoping to see some status update. sigh......

ME TOO! Where is the time to apply update?!

TheBest
02-24-2012, 7:28 AM
Has anybody read this BS document (from the SRPD webpage (http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/departments/police/Pages/residents.aspx))? http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/doclib/Documents/SonomaConcealedWeaponPolicy.pdf

"Denial criteria: General fear of crime with no specific information to substantiate it"

Why is that not valid? I don't have a cop following me at all times protecting me from the BGs.

GillaFunk
02-24-2012, 9:21 AM
Maybe they fail to understand the concept:

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away

TheBest
02-29-2012, 9:20 PM
For anybody interested in talking with the SRPD Department Head, the City will start doing "Coffee with a Department Head" starting on March 30. This is insider info that hasn't been posted on the SRCity.org website yet.

Additionally, we should try and show up, with quantity, and ask him questions regarding the above document, why the City won't take up the issue, like they should, as being in the jurisdiction of the city, I can apply there.

Questions such as:
1. With gang violence rising and public safety budgets being slashed, why does your Department refuse to issue Concealed Carry of Weapons permits as required by the Supreme Court?
2. The Calguns Foundation submitted a Public Records Act Request to your Department for information regarding CCW. They got an incomplete listing of Good Cause statements. Why does your Department refuse to release this information required by State Law? Does it have something to do with your Department cherry picking "qualified" candidates?
3. etc...

edrex
03-01-2012, 9:21 AM
Please keep us posted, I'd be interested in attending even though I live outside of Santa Rosa.

TheBest
03-02-2012, 11:08 AM
People of Petaluma, fill out the survey found at the bottom of the PD news article: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120302/ARTICLES/120309906/1350?p=all&tc=pgall

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/S9WGL6R (for when the article is gone).

stix213
03-12-2012, 5:57 PM
People of Petaluma, fill out the survey found at the bottom of the PD news article: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120302/ARTICLES/120309906/1350?p=all&tc=pgall

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/S9WGL6R (for when the article is gone).

Wow, thanks! Filled out he survey, hope its not too late. Mentioned Shall Issue CCW as a proven effective way to reduce crime in an environment of shrinking PD budgets and possible increases in crime due to high unemployment. Hopefully some other people have said similar.

TheBest
03-13-2012, 9:36 AM
Got the info for the Community Engagement Event. Coffee with a Department Head, March 30, 9am.

http://www.facebook.com/CommunityEngagementSR

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/416803_361961033834875_305217906175855_1164654_147 9755505_n.jpg

Soldier415
03-15-2012, 10:44 AM
"Sir, why does your written policy for the processing of applications for and issuing CCWs contain steps, restrictions and criteria that are illegal per California State Law?"

Follow up: "Sir, what immediate steps do you intend to take to modify your policy and bring it into compliance with State Law?"


The above would be fun to watch.

TheBest
03-22-2012, 10:43 PM
So, I'm definitely going to go to the event. I don't know how many others would be going since it's a work day.

I need a list of questions!

1. Sir, why does your written policy for the processing of applications for and issuing CCWs contain steps, restrictions and criteria that are illegal per California State Law?
2. Sir, what immediate steps do you intend to take to modify your policy and bring it into compliance with State Law?
3. ???

TheBest
03-30-2012, 7:45 PM
I meant to bump this last night but I forgot.

Anyway, I had a little one-on-one time with him after most people left and basically asked those questions.

He said he feels there are better alternatives to "strapping a pistol to you". I asked him for an example and he said pepper spray and "a taser, you can get one of those, right?" He also said he was the one who reviews them and they've only "issued 2 since the 70's". He also gave some examples of the SO that has issued, and he was talking about the single female realtor in remote areas, etc. Even that was on the line of making it and said shouldn't have been issued. I told him those people have $$$. He shrugged it off. I also told him about my job and how I go to remote locations with possible illegal growing operations and he asked me if I lived in the city, I told him yes and I should take it up with my employer. Employer is too risk averse to do anything but I wouldn't be able to get the LTC because "general fear of crime" isn't "good cause".

Didn't get a chance to ask him much more because there were other people.

707electrician
06-09-2012, 6:48 PM
Poor sonoma county getting no love

stix213
06-10-2012, 2:36 PM
Damn, saw this bumped and got excited for a second.

TheBest
06-23-2012, 7:16 PM
I'm urging everybody to take the Community Police Survey here: http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/departments/police/Pages/default.aspx

Make sure your LTC concerns are heard by putting them in the appropriate boxes. It probably won't do anything, but it's worth taking the 5 (or less) minutes and trying.

dgc357
12-03-2012, 11:48 AM
Any progress here? It has been far too long since there's been any posts or updates.

stix213
12-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Another false alarm thread bump! :taz: And I was hoping for something exciting.... :(

North Bay Guy
12-04-2012, 7:50 PM
Here's some Sonoma County GC statements. http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/gcstatements/SonomaGC.pdf
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/new-members/18523-greetings-sonoma-county.html

ptroxx
12-04-2012, 7:58 PM
Here's some Sonoma County GC statements. http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/gcstatements/SonomaGC.pdf
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/new-members/18523-greetings-sonoma-county.html

these are all very old, is there anything new in the works...

ssteve
12-04-2012, 8:06 PM
I can assure you that since the new sheriff took over that there's been more ccw's issued. Seen several from private business owners which is encouraging.

BomarFab
12-04-2012, 9:52 PM
They have been issued to business owners? I would qualify for that. I am always paranoid going to the bank, as I am often paid in cash. And a certain surrounding business attracts a less than stellar customer base that I do not trust.

A family member of mine applied many times here with no luck. Work forced relocation up north, and apparently it was a breeze after that.

707electrician
12-05-2012, 6:19 AM
I can assure you that since the new sheriff took over that there's been more ccw's issued. Seen several from private business owners which is encouraging.

Oh yeah that is encouraging. So I have to start a business for my life to be worth protecting

Sportsmans_Arms_Gabe
01-30-2013, 8:51 AM
I own a gun store and was told I shouldn't even bother trying here in Sonoma County...where is the info that 'more ccw's' have been issued?

GillaFunk
01-30-2013, 12:01 PM
So, why don't we all just apply?

Assuming our reasons are legit, zero criminal background, upstanding citizen. Whats the harm?

ptroxx
01-30-2013, 1:44 PM
So, why don't we all just apply?

Assuming our reasons are legit, zero criminal background, upstanding citizen. Whats the harm?

I wish we could all apply.. I would apply in a heart beat...

BomarFab
01-30-2013, 1:54 PM
What exactly is the reason we can't?

My father and I both want to apply, as CA business owners.

TheBest
01-30-2013, 2:02 PM
So, why don't we all just apply?

Assuming our reasons are legit, zero criminal background, upstanding citizen. Whats the harm?
The harm is getting a possible denial.

Then when a good sheriff comes around, a past denial is a reason to deny again.

Sakiri
01-30-2013, 2:53 PM
The harm is getting a possible denial.

Then when a good sheriff comes around, a past denial is a reason to deny again.

It should not affect it at all.

The main deterrent for me is cost.

Fees are non refundable. They won't take the application till I take the training course(which I would anyways), but thats almost 200 in fees that I'll never get back if they deny it.

TheBest
02-28-2013, 1:21 PM
It should not affect it at all.

The main deterrent for me is cost.

Fees are non refundable. They won't take the application till I take the training course(which I would anyways), but thats almost 200 in fees that I'll never get back if they deny it.
But with that class, you should be able to get AZ/NV/UT permits as well...

TheBest
04-08-2013, 8:46 PM
Everybody, register for this event and attend!

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5728034706

Gene Hoffman and Sheriff Steve Freitas are going to be there. We can grill him on his lack of CCW issuance!

bergmen
04-09-2013, 12:48 PM
But with that class, you should be able to get AZ/NV/UT permits as well...

The class you would take to apply for AZ/UT is only for applying to those states as non-residents (and costs $150.00). The one for California is the one taught by Ray Higbee and is $50.00 I think.

I took the AZ/UT non-resident course (Nevada isn't included) and I'm just waiting on the issuance.

Whether or not one has the possibility of successfully applying for a permit in Sonoma County, I would highly recommend the 16 hour course given at the Ukiah Gun Club. Lots of excellent techniques and awareness of self-defense laws are taught as well as good practical shooting exercises, good for anyone who takes armed self defense seriously.

Dan

oldyeller
04-09-2013, 3:14 PM
Everybody, register for this event and attend!

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5728034706

Gene Hoffman and Sheriff Steve Freitas are going to be there. We can grill him on his lack of CCW issuance!

Thanks, I just registered to go :)

SoCoGO
04-17-2013, 11:08 AM
Everybody, register for this event and attend!

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5728034706

Gene Hoffman and Sheriff Steve Freitas are going to be there. We can grill him on his lack of CCW issuance!

Found this thread today and realized this event was just last night! How did it go?

Lazerrus
04-20-2013, 3:27 AM
Any updates for Sonoma County issuance? Could 2013 be the year we finally get some ccw love? Want to apply but is it even worth the time & money?

TheBest
04-20-2013, 9:50 AM
If you went to the event, the answer was a flat out *no* for ordinary citizens who aren't into realty.

TheBest
10-08-2013, 10:55 AM
SRPD chief is retiring. http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131008/articles/131009580?title=Santa-Rosa-police-chief--announces-retirement

stix213
10-09-2013, 11:40 AM
Unlikely his replacement with be pro-ccw

Paladin
01-07-2014, 9:05 AM
I just went to the Sonoma Co Sheriffs Office website (http://www.sonomasheriff.org/) and see on its homepage, in big, bright red letters CCW :eek: :thumbsup:

They're obviously not hiding the availability of CCWs. Have they cleaned up their act re. illegal requirements?

On http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php they still require "three letters of character reference and your physician's attestation (statement) of suitability" and later that after passing the background check, "we will contact you in writing and provide additional information on what is required next."

Are they now less constipated as to what satisfies Good Cause?

oldyeller
01-07-2014, 9:15 AM
Could this be???

GillaFunk
01-07-2014, 9:20 AM
Im curious why we have to submit a "physician's attestation (statement) of suitability"

Is this some kind of new requirement?

GillaFunk
01-07-2014, 2:23 PM
You'll be denied. YOU, of all people, cant be trusted with a gun. :rolleyes:

Honestly, if its $20, and all of us 707'ers (with squeaky clean records, and legit reasons) apply, all are told no, and the no reason is a joke......demand justice.

TheBest
01-07-2014, 2:54 PM
You'll be denied. YOU, of all people, cant be trusted with a gun. :rolleyes:

Honestly, if its $20, and all of us 707'ers (with squeaky clean records, and legit reasons) apply, all are told no, and the no reason is a joke......demand justice.
At this point, lawsuit.

coma13
01-07-2014, 3:10 PM
You'll be denied. YOU, of all people, cant be trusted with a gun. :rolleyes:

Honestly, if its $20, and all of us 707'ers (with squeaky clean records, and legit reasons) apply, all are told no, and the no reason is a joke......demand justice.

I'm in!

oldyeller
01-07-2014, 3:11 PM
I'm in too

oldyeller
01-07-2014, 3:12 PM
Might have to find another doctor

Paladin
01-07-2014, 4:26 PM
You'll be denied. YOU, of all people, cant be trusted with a gun. :rolleyes:

Honestly, if its $20, and all of us 707'ers (with squeaky clean records, and legit reasons) apply, all are told no, and the no reason is a joke......demand justice.
We already are. No need for folks w/o substantial "Good Cause" to waste their time, money, and effort in futile endeavors.

At this point, lawsuit.
We already have a number of federal lawsuits going.

Right now, we're awaiting a decision by the 9th Circuit re. CCWs in CA in the Richards-Peruta cases. While we most likely will get a decision before next Nov., many think it could come within the next few months.

Gene Hoffman has said Gura will ask for cert. (asking SCOTUS to take), in the Drake case this week. If they do, they should make a national decision re. Carry before 2015 July 01.

There are other Carry cases in the pipeline as well: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=812950

GillaFunk
01-07-2014, 7:02 PM
I had planned on applying in another county, but if it helps the cause, I'll gladly apply here.

I'll write my app up and apply within the month.

Anyone else?
- coma

TACOPS
01-08-2014, 3:28 PM
Expecting to relocate to Napa/Sonoma area. Could reside in either county. Seeking advise on CCW application prospects and preferred location to be able to apply/receive issuance. No barring issues whatsoever.

tia

GillaFunk
01-08-2014, 4:44 PM
I hear napa is friendlier.

Check the '707' thread for other related input.

Paladin
01-08-2014, 6:06 PM
Expecting to relocate to Napa/Sonoma area. Could reside in either county. Seeking advise on CCW application prospects and preferred location to be able to apply/receive issuance. No barring issues whatsoever.

tiaIf you really want one, best to expand where you're willing to live and be willing to commute a longer distance.

Solano Co. and Mendocino Co. liberally issue CCWs. I don't know about Lake Co.

Marin is more constipated than either Sonoma or Napa. :mad:

We've sued Yolo Co in federal court, and we should be getting a decision by the 9th Circuit CA some time before next Nov. That's the Richards case. If we win it or lose it, the odds are it will be appealed to SCOTUS.

If we win Richards at the 9th, many counties might liberalize issuance on the assumption SCOTUS will agree with the 9th. So you might consider renting in Solano for a year w/a longer commute (but when you apply for a CCW tell them you plan to stay there indefinitely), and then see how Sonoma and Napa react to the Richards decision.

I keep track of the Concealed Carry cases at: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=812950 and update the OP as things happen.

GillaFunk
02-13-2014, 10:19 AM
Given this little Gem (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=893356&page=2), maybe time to move forward.

Anyone have an idea what "physician's attestation (statement) of suitability" is?

There are no samples anywhere on the SoCo Sheriff website. I have a call in to department, but the appropriate staff person is out until Monday.

oldyeller
02-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Let us know what you find Gilla

Rocket Man
02-17-2014, 3:05 PM
Hey Petaluma! We should go to this and voice our opinion.
Received a notice in the mail Petaluma PD is hosting a town meeting on Wed March 5th, 6:30-7:30pm. @ 320 North McDowell Blvd. in the community center.

GillaFunk
02-18-2014, 11:05 AM
Gents,
After speaking withe Wendy at the SoCo SO, she indicated that a sample of a "Physician's Statement of Suitability" is not available, and since I am not pre-approved I am 'WAYYY ahead of schedule'. She did imply that they will request a letter from my physician will be required, and it must stay that I 'Do not have any physical or mental issues which could influence my ability to concealed carry'.

She made it sound like I need to worry less about the doctors note, and more about actually being pre-approved. Obviously, since essentially no one in this county but the politicians, LEO's and political allies are permitted.

So...that settles that issue. Now, if my doctor is unwilling to provide such a letter for fear of legal ramification....that's another topic.

Funny that I have to get approval from: Sheriff, DOJ, AND my Doctor to get a carry permit.

TRD
02-21-2014, 6:15 PM
Hey Petaluma! We should go to this and voice our opinion.
Received a notice in the mail Petaluma PD is hosting a town meeting on Wed March 5th, 6:30-7:30pm. @ 320 North McDowell Blvd. in the community center.

What is the meeting for specifically?

Rocket Man
02-24-2014, 3:00 PM
What is the meeting for specifically?

It says;
"You will have an opportunity to meet the commanders responsible for you neighborhood and connect with the supervisors assigned for your area"

MudCamper
02-24-2014, 3:03 PM
Thanks for the updates GillaFunk.

Here is a link to the SCS CCW page: http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

From that page:

Beginning with DOJ LiveScan (fingerprinting) conducted at the Sheriff's Office, you will also be required to provide proof of completion of an initial CCW course taught by one of the Sonoma County Law Enforcement Chiefs' Association (SCLECA) approved CCW training providers, three letters of character reference and your physician's attestation (statement) of suitability. The Sheriff's Office will not ask you to provide any of the above documentation until we have received your DOJ and FBI fingerprint clearance. Once we receive these clearances, we will contact you in writing and provide additional information on what is required next.

I assume the physician's attestation (statement) of suitability is their version of the psych eval that the DOJ states they may require.

But three character reference letters? Is that legal under the CA law?

And then there's the "what is required next" statement. What does that mean?

Rocket Man
02-24-2014, 3:06 PM
Gents,
After speaking withe Wendy at the SoCo SO, she indicated that a sample of a "Physician's Statement of Suitability" is not available, and since I am not pre-approved I am 'WAYYY ahead of schedule'. She did imply that they will request a letter from my physician will be required, and it must stay that I 'Do not have any physical or mental issues which could influence my ability to concealed carry'.

She made it sound like I need to worry less about the doctors note, and more about actually being pre-approved. Obviously, since essentially no one in this county but the politicians, LEO's and political allies are permitted.

So...that settles that issue. Now, if my doctor is unwilling to provide such a letter for fear of legal ramification....that's another topic.

Funny that I have to get approval from: Sheriff, DOJ, AND my Doctor to get a carry permit.

Well crap! I'm a small business owner and Obamacare canceled my healthcare this year because, quote, "your mom and pop business doesn't meet their requirements".
So that's how they'll disarm us, no doctors note you loose... I'm so pissed off right now

oldyeller
02-24-2014, 4:10 PM
Great, my doctor is an anti

Any4x
02-25-2014, 6:38 AM
Sounds like we need a list of pro gun doctors. There must be some doctors that are Cal Gun members even if it means a little bit of a drive.

spotfire
02-25-2014, 6:17 PM
Maybe some of the same doctors that give out 215 cards for weed will do a brisk business in ccw suitability letters as well. Ha ha ha!!!
No, really, the doctors note seems silly, but also seems like the least part of the process. Maybe it will go away in the Peruta fallout.

dgc357
02-25-2014, 8:14 PM
Can anyone recommend a Kaiser doctor?

RobertMW
02-26-2014, 7:55 AM
But three character reference letters? Is that legal under the CA law?

That's why we are hoping for a good outcome from Richards.

G2283
02-27-2014, 2:25 PM
Hopefully since they are "shall issue" they will drop that Doc. Letter and reference garbage. I dropped off app yesterday and talked to a very nice lady today, she wrote my email on the app for me and I asked if they are handling the permits as shall issue and she said they sure are. I told her I put personnel protection, self defense, to abide by the law for just cause and she said that was perfect. So I guess time will tell. Anyone gone through the Peter Koch CCW class?

GillaFunk
02-27-2014, 2:33 PM
^ I am trying to organize group discount class. watch 707 thread.

edrex
02-27-2014, 2:34 PM
You dropped off an app to the Sonoma County Sheriffs office and they told you they are "shall issue" now?? This is very intriguing!

How many CalGunners have turned in an app since the decision? I was holding off to see how it panned out but now I'm thinking maybe I should go ahead and get the process started...

TheBest
02-27-2014, 4:15 PM
I'm waiting for the ruling to be finalized (no appeals).

TheBest
02-27-2014, 4:31 PM
Call the number?

G2283
02-27-2014, 4:39 PM
I'll call tomorrow when they're open.

Hopefully they will change that decision in light of recent events.

TheBest
02-27-2014, 9:55 PM
So Harris is requesting en banc.

ptroxx
02-28-2014, 6:12 AM
Thursday, February 27, 2014



Contact: (415) 703-5837




Attorney General Kamala D. Harris today filed a petition in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, on behalf of the State of California, urging the court to review and reverse its decision in Peruta v. County of San Diego.

In its February 13, 2014 Peruta decision, the Ninth Circuit ruled that San Diego County violates the Second Amendment by requiring individuals to show “good cause,” beyond a mere desire to carry a gun, when applying for a concealed-carry weapons permit.

“Local law enforcement must be able to use their discretion to determine who can carry a concealed weapon," Attorney General Harris said. "I will do everything possible to restore law enforcement's authority to protect public safety, and so today am calling on the court to review and reverse its decision."

California state law currently requires individuals to show "good cause" to carry a concealed weapon, but gives local law enforcement control over the permit process. If the Ninth Circuit’s ruling is allowed to take effect, officials throughout the State could be required to issue concealed-carry permits to individuals based on nothing more than the applicant’s assertion that they wish to carry a gun for self-defense.

In San Diego County, concealed-carry permit applicants have, until now, been required to show “good cause” by demonstrating “a set of circumstances that distinguish the applicant from the mainstream and causes him or her to be placed in harm’s way.”

On February 21, 2014 San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore announced he would not seek further review of the Ninth Circuit’s ruling.

The copy of the filings is attached to the electronic version of this release at: https://oag.ca.gov/news

GillaFunk
02-28-2014, 7:45 AM
Rinkor,
This about it this way; The state of California, which regulates CCW's requires an application, and a background check. Since no background check was done, I would say that your application process was not completed,

Also note that nor is a 'pre-approval' legal.
Pg 8, Q1 http://calgunsfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cgf_app_guide_2012.pdf


Thus invalid, thus your 'initial 'pre-approval' cant count as a denial, as the application process was never completed. You cant be denied if you never completed the application.

I'm sure once rest of us get denied, we can join together and fight this.



Harris can perform vacuum function on a Richard

TheBest
02-28-2014, 8:49 AM
If you look at Page 3, it says that if you are approved, then you do the training...

Juicy bit on page 9, No medical testing can be mandated unless it is a "psych eval".

Also, no letters of reference on page 10.

GillaFunk
02-28-2014, 9:22 AM
If you look at Page 3, it says that if you are approved, then you do the training...

Juicy bit on page 9, No medical testing can be mandated unless it is a "psych eval".

Also, no letters of reference on page 10.

Yup, basically his entire application process is not legal.


I should also note that my "informal interview" was on February 10th. The letter was written February 10th. Seems like they already had their mind made up.

Don't kid yourself, their minds were made up before you applied. Now if you could only sue them should you ever get attacked and be unable to defend yourself.

edrex
02-28-2014, 10:14 AM
Peruta wasn't decided until the 13th, right? I don't see how you would have expected anything other than a denial. I'm really curious to see how applications after Peruta are handled.

oldyeller
03-03-2014, 12:48 PM
I just received a letter of preliminary approval. Next step is the live scan for $114

oldyeller
03-03-2014, 2:36 PM
Finger printing on Wednesday. They said no list of training instructors available till after I pass the live scan. One step at a time so it seems.

TheBest
03-03-2014, 2:46 PM
But the SO is still requiring letters of reference and a doctor's note!

Donnovin
03-03-2014, 3:57 PM
They said no list of training instructors available till after I pass the live scan. One step at a time so it seems.

There is a list of "Sonoma County Law Enforcement Chiefs' Association Approved CCW Training Course Providers" at the bottom of the SO CCW webpage. They list four entities, The Sonoma County Public Safety Training Center, Peter Koch Associates (Marin), Jack Jennings (Napa), and Ray Higbee (Ukiah). Seems very limited, although, if you're used to not issuing permits, it's a moot point.

oldyeller
03-03-2014, 4:37 PM
There is a list of "Sonoma County Law Enforcement Chiefs' Association Approved CCW Training Course Providers" at the bottom of the SO CCW webpage. They list four entities, The Sonoma County Public Safety Training Center, Peter Koch Associates (Marin), Jack Jennings (Napa), and Ray Higbee (Ukiah). Seems very limited, although, if you're used to not issuing permits, it's a moot point.

Thank you :)

GillaFunk
03-04-2014, 9:29 AM
Reapply then.

And bummer that he is not too thrilled to issue permits.; I'm not too trilled in having my tax dollars paid in a million dollar settlement to the family of the kid who deputies shot because he was carrying a plastic gun.

If you apply during this window of the current ruling stands, then it would probably be hard to deny you.

edrex
03-04-2014, 11:47 AM
Are you just trying to save yourself the $20 application fee? Just reapply and save yourself the headache and time wasted trying to appeal something you were flat out told would be denied again.

Donnovin
03-04-2014, 2:35 PM
I would ask Lt. Basurto on what basis the appeal would be denied, ie, why does he know, in advance, that he would deny the appeal? Maybe it's a procedural thing related to the appeal process. Perhaps the appeal is reviewed in the past, ie, "Was the decision to deny appropriate at the time when the app was submitted?" Hard to say because their true intentions and internal policies are not clear.

His answer to this question could illustrate whether or not his foreknowledge is accurate and valid. If not, maybe the sheriff could weigh in with a second opinion on Lt. Basurto's pronouncement.

It would also be good to know if the appeals process is longer or more convoluted than the application process.

His stonewalling doesn't make a lot of sense in real terms or the big picture, but, we all know it's not about practical logic. It will be great if some day the Sonoma County LEOs would stop viewing us as a public nuisance and/or the enemy, and start realizing we are valuable assets and allies.

MudCamper
03-04-2014, 2:37 PM
The Sheriff updated their website regarding CCW's.

http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

Wow. And he said he'll accept "self defense". But he says if the ruling is stayed or goes en banc, that he won't.

So the rulling has been stayed, correct? (I've read all the Peruta threads and the more I read, the more I get lost.)

And the en banc may now come later than the 7th, because of the request for intervention by the AG?

So does this mean we currently are back where we started with SCS?

Donnovin
03-04-2014, 3:14 PM
Hope it goes well for you. Looking forward to learning how they respond, and to congratulating you for being on the short track to LTC!

beenawhile
03-04-2014, 6:00 PM
Wow. And he said he'll accept "self defense". But he says if the ruling is stayed or goes en banc, that he won't.



So the rulling has been stayed, correct? (I've read all the Peruta threads and the more I read, the more I get lost.)



And the en banc may now come later than the 7th, because of the request for intervention by the AG?



So does this mean we currently are back where we started with SCS?


That is exactly how I feel !

ptroxx
03-04-2014, 8:47 PM
Peruta v. County of San Diego
The Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office will accept CCW applications which include, in the “Details of Reason for Applicant Desiring a CCW License” (on page 10 of 13 of the California Department of Justice Standard Initial and Renewal Application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon), that the CCW license is needed for self-defense or personal safety. Applications which include other reasons showing “good cause” for the CCW License as set forth in the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Policy 219, Concealed Weapons Licenses, will also be accepted.

If the Peruta v. County of San Diego panel decision is withdrawn by a decision to rehear the case en banc in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, or a stay is issued by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals or the United States Supreme Court, we will require applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office Policy 219.

edrex
03-05-2014, 10:14 AM
Need some advice, guys:
With the favorable Richards decision should I turn in my CCW app now or keep a eye on what happens with Peruta? Does the sheriff still have the power to deny at will, or will this force shall issue?
I've tried to keep up on the Peruta threads but I can't tell if the decision is stayed and therefore the sheriff is looking at apps like he always has or if he is issuing according to the new guidelines set by the 9th.

GillaFunk
03-05-2014, 10:59 AM
I know myself, and 3 other CG guys here submitted. One member using self defense (or the like) on his application has already been 'pre-approved'

Are you not following the 707 thread?

ptroxx
03-05-2014, 11:12 AM
I have my app in.. I applied on the 24th.. the guy that got pre approved applied on the 20th....

edrex
03-05-2014, 11:13 AM
haha I pop in there every once in a while but there are so many simultaneous conversations it can be hard to follow at times.

beenawhile
03-05-2014, 11:17 AM
Dropped mine off on the 24th also.

MudCamper
03-05-2014, 11:54 AM
Given the Richards ruling today, I plan on submitting my application as soon as we know there won't be an en banc review in Peruta.

While Richards was Reversed and Remanded with only a reference to Peruta as the reason, Richards was all about "good moral character". The Sonoma County Sheriff may still deny on GMC, but he may see the writing on the wall at this point. He'd lose in a followup case. I'd gladly be that followup case.

Just keeping my fingers crossed on the Peruta en banc...

RobertMW
03-05-2014, 12:34 PM
Given the Richards ruling today, I plan on submitting my application as soon as we know there won't be an en banc review in Peruta.

While Richards was Reversed and Remanded with only a reference to Peruta as the reason, Richards was all about "good moral character". The Sonoma County Sheriff may still deny on GMC, but he may see the writing on the wall at this point. He'd lose in a followup case. I'd gladly be that followup case.

Just keeping my fingers crossed on the Peruta en banc...

I have the feeling that the way they just referenced Peruta, it's not going to be "If you aren't allowed to deny for lack of "Good Cause", you also can't deny for lack of proof of "Good Moral Character," IE the only way a Sheriff can deny you for GMC is by PROVING you have "Bad Moral Character." What that proof is, that is still to be defined directly, but I feel it falls under the 9th's statement about not getting in the way of laws that deny access to felons, mentally ill, proven to be a danger to self or others. Basically, if you are legally allowed to buy a gun, you should be legally allowed to get your CCW. It probably won't end up quite that liberal, but a traffic ticket or two definitely shouldn't be cause for denial.

dgc357
03-06-2014, 4:48 PM
Well, looks like they're back to the GCS unless I'm reading this wrong. I got my app in on the 27th. I wonder if I will have to provide a GCS?

http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

"On 2/28/2014, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided to withdraw their decision in the above case by a decision to rehear the case En Banc. The Court has ordered a stay on the issuance of their previous mandate from 2/13/2014, which only required an applicant to state a need of “self defense” as their reason for desiring a CCW License. Therefore, as of 2/28/14 the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office will revert back to requiring all applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office Policy 219 and California Penal Code section 26150(a)(2)."

GillaFunk
03-06-2014, 5:33 PM
oh well. You either got your app in in time or you didn't. He'll either approve your application justifiably, unjustifiably, or he'll say no like he has in the past. Once this goes to SCOTUS this will be settled once and for all.

My application is in during the period where he indicated he'd issue with personal defense. I used both self defense and another reason. I'd expect to be 'pre approved' per the terms of the application and current law I will not be submitting a doctors note nor letters of reference. Should I be denied for lack of submitting those other documents CGF has stated they encourage people who are denied to contact CGF.

It will look pretty bad on LEO's if one gets 'pre-approved', then denied on any other grounds, other than the background check.

I don't really care what happens at this point.

oldyeller
03-06-2014, 5:59 PM
Well, looks like they're back to the GCS unless I'm reading this wrong. I got my app in on the 27th. I wonder if I will have to provide a GCS?

http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

"On 2/28/2014, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided to withdraw their decision in the above case by a decision to rehear the case En Banc. The Court has ordered a stay on the issuance of their previous mandate from 2/13/2014, which only required an applicant to state a need of “self defense” as their reason for desiring a CCW License. Therefore, as of 2/28/14 the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office will revert back to requiring all applicants to supplement the “good cause” statement for the CCW License in accord with Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office Policy 219 and California Penal Code section 26150(a)(2)."

Really? the case went En Banc on the 28th? The court withdrew their decision?? Thats news to me, and I have really been trying to follow this thing.

TheBest
03-06-2014, 7:15 PM
I'm pretty sure the case did not go en banc. It was stayed until 6PM tonight as an extension for those who wanted to petition for another judge to do en banc. I have not read CGF enough tonight to see what the outcome was.

dgc357
03-06-2014, 9:04 PM
I haven't been able to find anything else to back up the SCSO's statement. They must be completely wrong on this.

MudCamper
03-06-2014, 10:45 PM
It is stayed for 3 weeks for plaintiffs to respond to the AG et al request to intervene. After that it will be 2 more weeks before we get a ruling on whether the AG will be given standing. Then it may stick or get delayed again. We will eventually get there. But we must be patient. The SCS will deny until this gets settled. The good news is it looks like he will comply once it's final.

But anyone who has submitted an app already will be denied and will have to apply again once all these delays end and Peruta is settled.

MudCamper
03-06-2014, 10:55 PM
I haven't been able to find anything else to back up the SCSO's statement. They must be completely wrong on this.

Well they are wrong that it hasn't gone en banc, but it has been stayed temorarily. But it's just a delay. See these 2 orders:

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2014/03/03/10-56971_order.pdf

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Peruta-v.-County-of-San-Diego_Order-re-Ordering-Response-to-Motions-to-Intervene.pdf

But this is all procedural bs. IMO we are still going to win this. If you want more details ad nauseum see the multiple Peruta threads in the Litigation forums.

stix213
03-06-2014, 11:09 PM
Now that richards is at the same place basically as peruta, which added good moral character to the mix now supposedly out of reach of arbitrary decisions, and assuming we sail through without an actual en banc redo, is there any justification for the 3 letters from friends? I believe they are using those to make a decision on good moral character, but could obviously not understand.

MudCamper
03-06-2014, 11:47 PM
is there any justification for the 3 letters from friends? I believe they are using those to make a decision on good moral character, but could obviously not understand.

I think they ask for character reference letters just because it's long standing tradition in LE agencies to use these letters for all kinds of things. But really, they are a complete waste of time. I bet even a serial killer could get letters of recommendation. With modern background checks they are unnecessary.

TheBest
03-07-2014, 6:21 AM
The SO cannot require anything in excess of the standard application except to clarify "good cause".

oldyeller
03-07-2014, 6:31 AM
But they are

MudCamper
03-07-2014, 8:15 AM
The SO cannot require anything in excess of the standard application except to clarify "good cause".

But they are

Both correct. And they will continue to require things that they legally can't until they either figure that out themselves, or are forced into legal compliance by the CGF sunshine initiative, which won't be for a long time after Peruta is final.

elkhorn98
03-07-2014, 10:55 AM
Can the So Co sheriff refuse your app because you live in santa rosa? I was told that by the SO a few years ago. From what I read they can't. Looks like things will open up real soon.

beenawhile
03-07-2014, 11:39 AM
I live in Santa Rosa & they accepted mine.

GillaFunk
03-07-2014, 12:00 PM
If enough of you guys follow the LAW and do NOT submit letters of reference and the doctors note, and when asked why, point to the language ON the application, and cite the code, he may reconsider.

If not, you may get denied, but its likely that if this goes to SCOTUS we'll be shall issue, like the rest of the country.

Follow the rules....you may get your license now. The rest of us WILL get ours in the next 2 years.

stix213
03-07-2014, 12:10 PM
I think they ask for character reference letters just because it's long standing tradition in LE agencies to use these letters for all kinds of things. But really, they are a complete waste of time. I bet even a serial killer could get letters of recommendation. With modern background checks they are unnecessary.

That makes sense, I'm more wondering if I even need to bother with submitting them post Richards.

I'll probably submit them anyway, just to not rock the boat when I'm applying, but I hate having to do it.

GillaFunk
03-07-2014, 12:52 PM
well, if the law allows you to buy a gun without 3 letters of GMC, and SO wants a doctors note which will say that you have no physical or mental issues that would prevent you from having a CCW, have 3 of your close friends write a letter, saying the exact same thing your doctor wrote.

Who cares, you met the requirement, equally for both MC and the doctors note. Why would more than a sentence be more than necessiary be OK from your doctor (a trained, licensed professional) and not your friends? Your friends opinions hold the least legal standing.

MudCamper
03-07-2014, 1:16 PM
On their page (http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php) the SCSD state that you'll need to complete the training with one of their approved instructors, and they list four. They are:

PUBLIC SAFETY TRAINING CENTER
PETER KOCH ASSOCIATES, Windsor
JACK JENNINGS, Napa County
RAY HIGBEE, Ukiah

Does anyone have any recommendations pro or con on any of these? Are any of them CalGunners perhaps?

Odd that 2 of them are in other counties. Although Ukiah is probably a plus, since the Sheriff there has been shall-issue for years. Perhaps the trainer there will be more civilian-friendly.

Donnovin
03-07-2014, 2:14 PM
The doctor's 'attestation' is beyond comprehension. First, what doctor wants the liability, second, what kind of doctor? What is it that your average doctor could attest to that relates to being fit to carry?
"I attest that Patient X has a waist, an ankle, and a shoulder with arm attached, any of which could accommodate a holster. Patient was also observed wearing a jacket with pockets. After considerable thought, it is my learned opinion that Patient X could definitely manage to conceal a handgun upon his person."

Most doctors are not going to 'attest' outside of their specialty, especially as litigious as our world is. Further, this info then goes into Big Data via your medical/insurance record.

The only doctor that makes sense would be a psychiatrist, which means the SO has to specifically request a psychiatric evaluation and it has to be a blanket policy for all permits past and future.

Donnovin
03-07-2014, 3:27 PM
I found a SCSO policy manual, dated October 2006, containing Policy 219 online via this link:

SCSO Policy Manual (http://www.scdirectaction.org/copwatch/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sonoma-co-so-ver-3a.pdf)

219.32 (a) and (b) are interesting and indicate that their actual process is at odds with their policy to adhere to the PC.

Also interesting are 219.7 (b) (9) which outlines the intent of the physician's attestation, and (10) that testing via psychologist is required.

219.7 (b) Applicant shall submit:
9. Written evidence from a licensed physician that the applicant is not currently suffering from any medical condition which would make the individual unsuitable for carrying a concealed weapon, (NOTE: All costs associated with this requirement shall be paid by the applicant.) Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of medical fitness shall result in removal of the applicant from further consideration.

10. The applicant shall also be referred to an authorized psychologist used by the issuing Department for psychological testing in order to determine the
applicant’s suitability for carrying a concealed weapon. (NOTE: The cost of such psychological testing [not to exceed $150.00] shall be paid by the applicant.) If it is psychologically determined that the applicant is not a suitable candidate for carrying a concealed weapon, the applicant shall be removed from further consideration.

TireTracks
03-07-2014, 3:45 PM
I posted this in another thread...

Well... Here's what my denial letter looks like. I'm not surprised at all.

http://i.imgur.com/V36EYnO.jpg

Interesting that the date on the letter is February 10th but the envelope was postmarked February 25th.

Time to appeal.

Anyone know how to appeal?

EDIT: I would love to see a good cause statement that was accepted and compare it with mine.

Is this Rinkor of Rinkor Gun store on Mendo?

oldyeller
03-07-2014, 4:01 PM
Anyone on here a Doctor? Anyone know a pro 2nd amendment Doctor in the Santa Rosa area? I don't feel like even telling my anti-gun Doctor I own guns LOL

GillaFunk
03-10-2014, 9:12 AM
I found a SCSO policy manual, dated October 2006, containing Policy 219 online via this link:

SCSO Policy Manual (http://www.scdirectaction.org/copwatch/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sonoma-co-so-ver-3a.pdf)


EXCELLENT FIND!!

The Policy contradicts itself

1) Letters of Reference are not required

219.32 APPLICATION (PENAL CODE SECTION 12051)
(a) Applications shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be prescribed by
the Attorney General (Form SS 8501).
(b) No licensing authority shall require any license applicant to complete any additional application or form for a CCW, or provide any information other than that necessary to complete the standard application form, except to clarify or

219.7 APPLICATION PROCEDURE
(a) Upon request, a citizen will be given a Concealed Weapons License packet to
include:
4. Three (3) letters of reference.
9. Written evidence from a licensed physician
10. The applicant shall also be referred to an authorized psychologist


2) Doctors notes are basically Required, which goes against what was sated above.

219.7 APPLICATION PROCEDURE
(a) Upon request, a citizen will be given a Concealed Weapons License packet to
include:
1. CCW application explanation and instruction sheet.
2. DOJ application form (Form SS8501).
3. Two (2) DOJ applicant fingerprint cards (Form BID-9).
(b) Applicant shall submit:
1. Copy of approved Firearms Safety Course Certificate of Completion.
2. Copy of birth certificate or naturalization papers.
3. Copy of Honorable Military Discharge (Form DD214 or DD256A), if
applicable.
4. Three (3) letters of reference.
5. Completed and signed DOJ application form.
6. Two (2) completed and signed DOJ applicant fingerprint cards (Form BID-9).
7. A check or money order made payable to “California Department of Justice”.
8. Additional agency processing fee, if applicable.
9. Written evidence from a licensed physician that the applicant is not currently suffering from any medical condition which would make the individual
unsuitable for carrying a concealed weapon, (NOTE: All costs associated
with this requirement shall be paid by the applicant.) Failure to provide
satisfactory evidence of medical fitness shall result in removal of the applicant from further consideration.

10. The applicant shall also be referred to an authorized psychologist used by the issuing Department for psychological testing in order to determine the
applicant’s suitability for carrying a concealed weapon. (NOTE: The cost of
such psychological testing [not to exceed $150.00] shall be paid by the
applicant.) If it is psychologically determined that the applicant is not a
suitable candidate for carrying a concealed weapon, the applicant shall be removed from further consideration.



I would encourage you ALL to submit one of these, just to help the cause, but especially if you have applied

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/california-carry-license-ltcccw-issue-reporting/

Here is the sheriff's policy

Sheriff Official Policy
http://www.scdirectaction.org/copwat...-so-ver-3a.pdf

Website Policy
http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

Holy Dawg
03-11-2014, 4:11 PM
The policy you have posted is outdated. It was revised/updated in December 2012. Very dangerous, and irresponsible, to publish bad info on a subject as important as this...

GillaFunk
03-11-2014, 4:16 PM
Not nearly as irresponsible as knowing the content is outdated, insulting someone about posting it, yet not posting the update, or at least a link to it.

But everyone has an opinion.

Not that it matters; that was Holy Dawgs one and ONLY post after joining TODAY.

Donnovin
03-11-2014, 4:29 PM
The policy you have posted is outdated. It was revised/updated in December 2012.

Thanks for the heads up!

Do you have a link, or feedback on any ccw related revisions? That would actually be helpful; or, was that not your intent?

My sense is that the 'alleged' revisions to SCSO CCW policy, if any, didn't bring it into compliance with the PC.

GillaFunk
03-11-2014, 5:03 PM
I'm not finding any information about CCW policy, Code of Ethics, Mission Statement, core values, Policy 219, SO's or any updates whatsoever since 2006.


I did find this from
SONOMA COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT
CHIEFS’ ASSOCIATION ,

but its is from 2007
http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/doclib/Documents/SonomaConcealedWeaponPolicy.pdf


Still essentially states verbatim what I have already voiced above.

Same games since the late 80's
http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/inca.pdf

MudCamper
03-12-2014, 4:39 PM
The policy you have posted is outdated. It was revised/updated in December 2012. Very dangerous, and irresponsible, to publish bad info on a subject as important as this...

Please post the updated policy to which you refer.

G2283
03-17-2014, 9:33 AM
So I just got off the phone with the SCSO and they said they will be sending me my app back and that I have to apply with Petaluma PD. What a crock!! They are only doing this because they know Petaluma, Santa Rosa and Rohnert Park will say NO the second you walk in the door. I'm done with this crapy state, get out while you can!!! :facepalm:

dgc357
03-17-2014, 9:56 AM
So I just got off the phone with the SCSO and they said they will be sending me my app back and that I have to apply with Petaluma PD. What a crock!! They are only doing this because they know Petaluma, Santa Rosa and Rohnert Park will say NO the second you walk in the door. I'm done with this crapy state, get out while you can!!! :facepalm:

I wonder if they'll send mine back and tell me to apply in Santa Rosa.

MudCamper
03-17-2014, 10:23 AM
Why is anyone even applying now. Peruta is currently stayed. The SCSO has stated on their website that they will continue with their pre-Peruta good cause requirements (will not issue) unless/until the ruling becomes law.

dgc357
03-17-2014, 10:46 AM
Why is anyone even applying now. Peruta is currently stayed. The SCSO has stated on their website that they will continue with their pre-Peruta good cause requirements (will not issue) unless/until the ruling becomes law.

I applied before that was known and before the website was updated.

G2283
03-17-2014, 10:54 AM
I applied before that was known and before the website was updated.

Yeah, so did I and the sheriffs office told me they would honor personal protection as just cause between 2/13 and 2/28. I turned turned my app in on 2/26 and they basically told me today not our problem go to Petaluma Pd and I told them I went there first and they said "that is a county issue" so I guess Sonoma County and this stupid state screwed me again!! Going to visit north Idaho in Oct. got to get the hell out of here.

dgc357
03-17-2014, 11:30 AM
Yeah, so did I and the sheriffs office told me they would honor personal protection as just cause between 2/13 and 2/28. I turned turned my app in on 2/26 and they basically told me today not our problem go to Petaluma Pd and I told them I went there first and they said "that is a county issue" so I guess Sonoma County and this stupid state screwed me again!! Going to visit north Idaho in Oct. got to get the hell out of here.

Did they actually review your application yet? I applied on the 27th ans haven't heard anything yet.

stix213
03-17-2014, 11:38 AM
If they are not processing and instead sending you to your city, they aren't allowed to do that. If they continue I smell a CGF lawsuit.

G2283
03-17-2014, 12:01 PM
If they are not processing and instead sending you to your city, they aren't allowed to do that. If they continue I smell a CGF lawsuit.

I just got off phone with pet pd and keep getting voicemail they are giving me the runaround.

mmayer707
03-17-2014, 12:24 PM
I just got off phone with pet pd and keep getting voicemail they are giving me the runaround.

The Sheriff's dept. has it backwards. Petaluma PD can send you to the Sheriff's dept. and deny taking your application but the Sheriff's dept. can't do the opposite. They have to take it.

elkhorn98
03-17-2014, 5:28 PM
Don't do it....sounds like your app date is pre 2/28 so they will issue without a good clause statement. Are they trying to get you to reapply to petaluma with a new app date?

GillaFunk
03-17-2014, 7:29 PM
Request an appt. with LT. Basurto. Take a copy of the current Ca penal code with you. No where in the law does it say they can refuse an appilcation. It says they MUST file the application, thus it MUST be accepted.

If he continues to ignore the written law, do the like the rest of us have done, submit a report to CalGuns Foundation:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/california-carry-license-ltcccw-issue-reporting/

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/

G2283
03-18-2014, 7:35 AM
Hey guys been working seven days a week, what the deal with ccw going shall issue? When are we going to find out? Bring me up to speed. thanks :confused:

oldyeller
03-18-2014, 7:44 AM
My understanding is the case is on stay in the 9th circuit, we should know more on the 26th, stay tuned.

GillaFunk
03-19-2014, 12:48 AM
Yeah, so did I and the sheriffs office told me they would honor personal protection as just cause between 2/13 and 2/28. I turned turned my app in on 2/26 and they basically told me today not our problem go to Petaluma Pd and I told them I went there first and they said "that is a county issue" so I guess Sonoma County and this stupid state screwed me again!! Going to visit north Idaho in Oct. got to get the hell out of here.

Librarian Nswered this question directly, here
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=13641911&postcount=4

LeftCoastShooter
03-20-2014, 12:21 PM
Remind them of Lu v. Baca.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/2014/01/calguns-foundation-wins-handgun-carry-lawsuit-los-angeles-sheriffs-department-sheriff-lee-baca/

The SCSO must take your app.

Sonoma and Marin [where I live] will probably be the last counties to have Peruta shoved down their anti-2A throats.

So I just got off the phone with the SCSO and they said they will be sending me my app back and that I have to apply with Petaluma PD. What a crock!! They are only doing this because they know Petaluma, Santa Rosa and Rohnert Park will say NO the second you walk in the door. I'm done with this crapy state, get out while you can!!! :facepalm:

GillaFunk
03-20-2014, 1:25 PM
I'm certain anyone on the 707 thread would be happy to shove. Be it dry like the desert, or as rough as sand paper.

Lsx2
03-22-2014, 2:04 PM
My letter received today.

http://i.imgur.com/s9fAPv7.jpg

dgc357
03-22-2014, 2:49 PM
^^Well that's bad news.

Paladin
03-22-2014, 3:16 PM
My letter received today.

http://i.imgur.com/s9fAPv7.jpg

Get in touch w/CGF ASAP, but, IMO, use their NON-Emergency contact route (it's not like you've been arrested and are sitting in jail):
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/get-help/report-other-le/