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Gray Peterson
10-15-2010, 12:08 AM
UPDATE (2015 Aug 02): Per below, Santa Clara County SO is taking & holding apps w/"self-defense" as Good Cause pending finalization of Peruta.

To find out the status of Peruta, monitor this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=893452


Concealed Carry Permits (CCW)
Published on: 4/13/2015 8:07 AM

In November of 2014, a 9th Circuit panel denied the request of the California Attorney General and several other groups including the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence to intervene in and appeal the panel’s decision in the Peruta case permitting individuals to request CCW permits without establishing a “good cause” basis for the permit. The panel’s denial of the motions to intervene has not yet changed the status of the law. The intervenors may appeal this decision to a larger panel of the 9th Circuit or the larger panel could on its own review the decision. Thus, the recent decision has not really changed anything until the 9th remands the matter to the District Court to issue the mandate confirming the Peruta decision until then everything will remain status quo and the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office (SCCSO) will continue to collect applications until the law is completely settled. There are also two other cases addressing the same issue that the 9th Circuit may consider on appeal. As you can see this issue is in flux and until the law is settled the SCCSO will be accepting your application. Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Currently, we are accepting and processing applications. However, due to a large number of applications we have received, there is a tremendous backlog. Please be patient as we work our way through the backlog.

If you are interested in applying for a CCW permit, please complete the application below and submit it either via mail or in person to:

Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office
ATTN: CCW Unit
55 W Younger Avenue
San Jose, CA 95110

If you have any questions, please email CCW@sheriff.sccgov.org

BoxesOfLiberty
10-19-2010, 8:05 AM
Is there a list of cities that have declared (G)? I am particularly interested in Santa Clara (home) and Palo Alto (work). The front desk at SCPD was unable to answer the question - though that was a couple of months ago.

bulgron
10-19-2010, 8:50 AM
Is there a list of cities that have declared (G)?

The best information that I have is no city in SCC has declared (G). But that's just a rumor and I have no proof to back it up.

jwissick
10-20-2010, 8:59 PM
It bothers me that the SO will disqualify people who have merely been arrested.

It also bothers me they are reviewing medical history as well.

What is declared (G)? I searched for it, but things in () don't search well I think.

obeygiant
10-20-2010, 9:37 PM
It bothers me that the SO will disqualify people who have merely been arrested.

It also bothers me they are reviewing medical history as well.

What is declared (G)? I searched for it, but things in () don't search well I think.

It means that they have a MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) with the Sheriff to process all CCW applications.

CAL. PEN. CODE § 12050(g) (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/3/s12050)
(g)Nothing in this article shall preclude the chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city from entering an agreement with the sheriff of the county in which the city is located for the sheriff to process all applications for licenses, renewals of licenses, and amendments to licenses, pursuant to this article.

ColdDeadHands1
10-20-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm looking forward to the list of accepted good cause statements for SC County. Is there anything I can do to help compile info?

What do the "right people" have to say about applying in Santa Clara County? Is it time to fill out paperwork or to eat a sandwich and take a nap?

smarter
10-20-2010, 10:30 PM
Campaign donation = Good cause in SCC. :mad:

POLICESTATE
10-20-2010, 10:51 PM
Campaign donation = Good cause in SCC. :mad:

But I hear the "fee" is 5 digits, or is that a different county? I get so confused.

creekside
10-21-2010, 10:50 AM
Campaign donation = Good cause in SCC. :mad:

About fifteen years ago, when I was a resident of Santa Clara County, I called the Sheriff's Office to ask about a CCW in total obliviousness.

I was transferred to a sergeant in Administration. He stated, in all apparent sincerity, that what I needed to do was to donate $5,000 to the sheriff's re-election campaign and then he would call me back after getting my name and phone number from them.

Note: this was to a random caller on the phone. One suspects that they may have wised up since then.

bulgron
10-21-2010, 5:36 PM
What do the "right people" have to say about applying in Santa Clara County? Is it time to fill out paperwork or to eat a sandwich and take a nap?

I'm not among "the right people", nor do I play that part on TV, but my observation is that you might as well take that nap. Santa Clara County is going to be one of the tougher nuts to crack.

The caveat is that I've heard rumors about impending litigation against SCCSO that might move things along faster. But I've been waiting all year for those rumors to amount to something, and so far it's a big, fat nada. For this reason, I'm assuming that it will be at least 3 - 4 years before an average citizen can reasonably hope to obtain a CCW from the SCCSO.

Upshot: take the nap. If something changes, we'll wake you up. :43:

VTRweasel
10-22-2010, 9:28 AM
This is probably a stupid question that's been asked and answered many times but...

My step mother has a place in Meyers, can I get an ID in El Dorado county and apply for a CCW there even though my primary residence in here?

I do spend a lot of time up there and there are bears and rattle snakes. If fact her place got broken into and torn apart by a bear last summer. Luckily no one was home at the time.

I might even be able to get a "job" on paper there if that helps.

bulgron
10-22-2010, 11:55 AM
It all comes down to how the county defines "residency." I've heard (but have never confirmed) that some counties will issue you a CCW if you even so much as rent a place in the county. Other counties will send deputies to knock on your door, knock on your neighbor's door, etc, so as to determine whether you really live there.

What I would do is write to the El Dorado SO and ask them if they will issue CCWs to part time residents of the county, and what they require to show proof of residency. Most likely they won't issue to a part time resident, but it can't hurt to ask.

VTRweasel
10-23-2010, 9:00 PM
Most likely they won't issue to a part time resident, but it can't hurt to ask.

Thank you. :cool:

jwissick
10-24-2010, 10:30 PM
It may be a while before SCC is cracked and allows CCW, but right now is a good time to hit them with the suits from an economic standpoint. They have a huge budget deficit and prolly cant finance a sustained or effective court fight.

kcbrown
10-26-2010, 4:57 PM
It may be a while before SCC is cracked and allows CCW, but right now is a good time to hit them with the suits from an economic standpoint. They have a huge budget deficit and prolly cant finance a sustained or effective court fight.

You know, I sometimes wonder about this.

See, we normal people have to pay an attorney by the hour for his work. So whenever we need to do something in the legal system, it costs us a pretty penny.

But doesn't each county have its own full-time counsel? If so, then they're being paid a salary, and the additional cost for them to go through litigation amounts to the various court costs involved. They're paying their counsel regardless, so "financing" an extended court battle is essentially trivial, right?


On the other hand, if they lose the case then they have to pay the other side's costs, which will certainly be considerable, but as D.C. and Chicago have shown, the actual cost to them is essentially zip for a very extended period of time. I can't help but wonder, sometimes, if Gura, et al will wind up being paid at all...

racerguy180
10-27-2010, 12:15 AM
I was at the SJPD 8 years ago (paying a parking ticket) and I decided to ask about getting a CCW, they took my name and I waited for 45min to have some jerko*f come up to me, ask me why I wanted one & tell me that I would be better off not applying because I would just get denied!! I was pissed and asked him why, he said that the only people who get CCW's in San Jose were ret. police, diamond couriers, etc..

I was like WTF!!!!!:banghead:

I can't wait until the GC statements are posted, I'll be one of the first in line to apply!!!

bulgron
10-27-2010, 12:42 AM
But doesn't each county have its own full-time counsel? If so, then they're being paid a salary, and the additional cost for them to go through litigation amounts to the various court costs involved. They're paying their counsel regardless, so "financing" an extended court battle is essentially trivial, right?

Sometimes a city/county government will hire outside law firms to handle certain lawsuits. As I recall, SF paid an outside law firm over a gun rights battle they had with the NRA a few years ago. (If memory serves, that was their fight over a handgun ban in the city. They lost on state preemption grounds.)

I'm not saying that SCC would hire an outside law firm in the event of a legal dispute over CCW issuance. But it is clearly within the realm of possibility that any given government entity will go to an outside firm, especially if they don't have the resources/expertise to successfully fight a particular lawsuit in-house.

I keep wishing that SCCSO and the various PDs in the bay area would look at the way the wind is blowing, and decide to be reasonable. But I guess I've been living here too long, because I really don't expect any of them to be reasonable. This is going to be an interesting fight when it gets to be SCC's turn. I wonder if the Mercury News will actually cover it, or if they'll bury it.

I am so looking forward to the coming entertainment.

wildhawker
10-27-2010, 1:33 AM
SC has an extensive legal department; however, I would highly suspect that any serious litigation would go to outside counsel.

sobiloff
11-03-2010, 5:15 PM
I'm curious how long it takes to update the sponsorship page? Right now the status spreadsheet (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/156-sponsorships-to-date) lists 18 sponsors, but only 15 names (including two anonymous) appear on the county information page (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/131-santa-clara).

jwissick
11-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Just curious how we plan to get the 'good cause' data. As far as I can tell, that information doesn't exist any longer.


The NRA in 03 wrote and got AB 1044 signed into law which would destroy the AG's CCW database and the good cause data.....

sobiloff
11-04-2010, 6:31 AM
My reading of the bill (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_1001-1050/ab_1044_bill_20030926_chaptered.html) leads me to believe that it only prevented the AG from collecting that information from the counties. It did not require the counties to dispose of the applications; they typically retain that information. Thus we have to go after each county's records.

Gray Peterson
11-04-2010, 6:52 AM
Just curious how we plan to get the 'good cause' data. As far as I can tell, that information doesn't exist any longer.


The NRA in 03 wrote and got AB 1044 signed into law which would destroy the AG's CCW database and the good cause data.....

That was only at the state level with the AG's office. The good cause data is still at the sheriff's agencies, both denials and approved.

You're not telling something we already don't know.

-Gray

tabrisnet
11-07-2010, 5:29 PM
I'm curious how long it takes to update the sponsorship page? Right now the status spreadsheet (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/156-sponsorships-to-date) lists 18 sponsors, but only 15 names (including two anonymous) appear on the county information page (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/131-santa-clara).

Similar question, as I just paid for a sponsorship (2010/11/06) for Santa Clara, and the spreadsheet still claims only 18 sponsors.

I also can't seem to find out how to get my Santa Clara sig image either, but that's less important.

johnny_22
11-22-2010, 7:30 AM
Is the Calguns Foundation working with Team Billy Jack? I know he was gathering up the good cause statements last year for a possible lawsuit with the right candidate. I did not qualify for that position.

wildhawker
11-22-2010, 9:00 AM
There's no joint venture underway at this time.

Is the Calguns Foundation working with Team Billy Jack? I know he was gathering up the good cause statements last year for a possible lawsuit with the right candidate. I did not qualify for that position.

2Cute2Shoot
11-22-2010, 2:55 PM
Santa Clara is not totally impossible. :) i know it is hard, :( but you really do need to 'come up' with REALLY good cause..which is not impossible. also it helps if you get to know some officers and they can really help you since it is really 'who you know' there, they will be the best ones to tell you who that is for you. seriously i would say to try and get to know as many of those people as you can and eventually you will be hopefully be helped. :o one thing, do not believe that 'nobody' gets ccw in Santa Clara because lots...LOTS of people have them. just add all the retired officers, all the politicians, all the people like Meg Whitman, her husband, stars, millionaires, etc...there are lots! Good luck :)

wildhawker
11-22-2010, 4:31 PM
If one needs more good cause than "I'm alive, and I've not had my rights stripped due to felony, etc.", it's unconstitutional.

Hey, Sheriff Smith - I "know somebody", too!

http://hoffmang.com/firearms/emoticons/guraanimate1.gif

dantodd
11-22-2010, 4:34 PM
The entire point of this initiative is to avoid getting chin drip when applying for a ccw. There should be no need to "come up" with some elaborate reason to carry or knowing the right people to execute a constitutionally protected right.

obeygiant
11-22-2010, 10:49 PM
Similar question, as I just paid for a sponsorship (2010/11/06) for Santa Clara, and the spreadsheet still claims only 18 sponsors.

I also can't seem to find out how to get my Santa Clara sig image either, but that's less important.

Sent you a pm with the link to your custom signature.

Texas Boy
11-27-2010, 12:33 PM
So when you are ready for some regular citizens with no criminal record to apply with "self defense" as our cause and be denied, please let us know...I for one would be happy to sign up.

Gray Peterson
11-27-2010, 12:39 PM
So when you are ready for some regular citizens with no criminal record to apply with "self defense" as our cause and be denied, please let us know...I for one would be happy to sign up.

Oh yeah, we'll send out an email. Did you volunteer and put in your zip code?

Texas Boy
11-27-2010, 1:30 PM
Hi Gray,

just sent you a PM with my details.

Spaceghost
11-28-2010, 2:28 AM
I'm sorry, all the smiley faces make it impossible to read your post.

Santa Clara is not totally impossible. :) i know it is hard, :( but you really do need to 'come up' with REALLY good cause..which is not impossible. also it helps if you get to know some officers and they can really help you since it is really 'who you know' there, they will be the best ones to tell you who that is for you. seriously i would say to try and get to know as many of those people as you can and eventually you will be hopefully be helped. :o one thing, do not believe that 'nobody' gets ccw in Santa Clara because lots...LOTS of people have them. just add all the retired officers, all the politicians, all the people like Meg Whitman, her husband, stars, millionaires, etc...there are lots! Good luck :)

Texas Boy
11-28-2010, 11:05 AM
2Cute2Shoot, are you saying 49 civilian CCW's in a county of nearly 2 million people qualifies as "LOTS"? Or are you saying the numbers reported are wrong? http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/fundraising-goal-status

While I'm certain that with the right connections and profile (big bucks, donated the money to open the new library, golf buddies with the police chief, etc), you could get a CCW here, that isn't most people.

BanjoGunner
11-30-2010, 3:52 PM
It bothers me that the SO will disqualify people who have merely been arrested.
/snip...
Is this in fact the case in Santa Clara County?

I was arrested for a non-violent offense in Yolo County >25 years ago. I was diverted, the charges dismissed, and supposedly expunged from my record. When asked, however, I have always acknowledged that I have been arrested. I actually owned a gun at the time and as the officers entered my house I informed them of this fact. They asked me to retrieve and unlock the case in which it was contained (under their close supervision of course), examined the gun, relocked the case and returned the key to me. The case and gun were sitting on my bed when I returned from my brief jail stay.

Will this arrest preclude me from getting a CCW in Santa Clara County?

So when you are ready for some regular citizens with no criminal record to apply with "self defense" as our cause and be denied, please let us know...I for one would be happy to sign up.
Oh yeah, we'll send out an email. Did you volunteer and put in your zip code?
Assuming the above would not preclude me from or make me a bad test case for CCW in Santa Clara County, how do I volunteer? Via email?

obeygiant
11-30-2010, 9:29 PM
Is this in fact the case in Santa Clara County?

I was arrested for a non-violent offense in Yolo County >25 years ago. I was diverted, the charges dismissed, and supposedly expunged from my record. When asked, however, I have always acknowledged that I have been arrested. I actually owned a gun at the time and as the officers entered my house I informed them of this fact. They asked me to retrieve and unlock the case in which it was contained (under their close supervision of course), examined the gun, relocked the case and returned the key to me. The case and gun were sitting on my bed when I returned from my brief jail stay.

Will this arrest preclude me from getting a CCW in Santa Clara County?
See "Prohibiting Conditions" in Brandon's post below
Assuming the above would not preclude me from or make me a bad test case for CCW in Santa Clara County, how do I volunteer? Via email?
You can sign up to volunteer here: www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer
All,

Calguns Foundation is actively seeking volunteers from each and every California county who want to make a difference and are free of any prohibiting history; for a list prohibiting conditions, see the end of this post. It's important that we have coverage in each county - let's "get the word out" across the state.

Unfortunately, we can't share much about the nature of this request just yet... As Bill Wiese says, "CGF: when you absolutely, positively have to sue every mother****** in the room!".

If you are interested in working with CGF to advance gun rights in your area and across California, please let us know by signing up to volunteer at Calguns Foundation at www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer.

If for some reason you can't get involved directly as a volunteer, consider making a fully tax-deductible donation (www.calgunsfoundation.org/donate) to CGF which will go straight to the front lines and support the numerous lawsuits and initiatives coming soon.

Don't forget to sign up at www.calgunsfoundation.org and follow @CalgunsFdn for all the latest news and 2A resources. Please do pass the word along to your friends, family and shooting buddies. CGF is coming to town armed and ready with the nation's preeminent 2A litigators and operations team... and we're coming soon.

Thank you for your support; we look forward to working closely with you to advance our Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

-Brandon

Prohibiting Conditions

CALIFORNIA PROHIBITING CATEGORIES FOR A CCW LICENSE
As of January, 1999

• Persons convicted of a felony, or any offense enumerated in section 12021.1 of the Penal Code (PC).
• Persons addicted to the use of narcotics.
• Persons denied firearm possession as a condition of probation pursuant to PC section 12021(d).
• Persons convicted of a specified misdemeanor pursuant to PC section 12021(c)(1) are prohibited from purchasing
or possessing firearms for 10 years (see Attachment 2).
• Juveniles adjudged wards of the juvenile court because they committed a 707(b) Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC)
offense, an offense described in PC section 1203.073(b) or any offense enumerated in PC section 12021(c)(1) are
prohibited until they reach age 30.
• Persons who are subject to a protective order as defined in section 6218 of the Family Code, or a temporary restraining order or injunction issued pursuant to sections 527.6 or 527.8 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
• Persons found by a court to be a danger to others because of mental illness.
• Persons found by a court to be mentally incompetent to stand trial.
• Persons found by a court to be not guilty by reason of insanity.
• Persons adjudicated to be a mentally disordered sex offender.
• Persons placed on a conservatorship because they are gravely disabled as a result of a mental disorder or impairment by chronic alcoholism
• Persons who communicate a threat to a licensed psychotherapist, against a reasonably identifiable victim, and the psychotherapist reports to law enforcement pursuant to WIC section 8100(b), are prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm for 6 months.
• Persons in a mental health facility certified pursuant to WIC sections 5250, 5260, and 5270.15 are prohibited from possessing or purchasing or attempting to purchase firearms for 5 years.
• Persons who are voluntary patients in a mental facility who are determined to be a danger to self or others are prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm between admission and discharge.
• Persons under indictment or information in any court for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

CALIFORNIA PROHIBITING MISDEMEANORS
As of January, 1999

Pursuant to Penal Code (PC) section 12021(c)(1), any person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor violation for any of the following offenses is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or
control any firearms within 10 years of the conviction:
• Threatening public officers, employees and school officials (PC section 71).
• Threatening certain public officials, appointees, judges, staff or their families with the intent and apparent ability
to carry out the threat (PC section 76).
• Possessing a deadly weapon with the intent to intimidate a witness (PC section 136.5).
• Threatening witnesses, victims, or informants (PC section 140).
• Attempting to remove or take a firearm from the person or immediate presence of a public or peace officer (PC section 148(d)).
• Unauthorized possession of a weapon in a courtroom, courthouse or court building, or at a public meeting (PC section 171(b)).
• Bringing into or possessing a loaded firearm within the state capitol, legislative offices, etc. (PC section 171c).
• Taking into or possessing loaded firearms within the Governor’s Mansion or residence of other constitutional officers, etc. (PC section 171(d)).
• Supplying, selling or giving possession of a firearm to a person for participation in criminal street gangs (PC section 186.28).
• Assault (PC sections 240, 241)
• Battery (PC sections 242, 243).
• Assault with a stun gun or Taber weapon (PC section 244.5)
• Assault with deadly weapon or force likely to produce great bodily injury (PC section 245).
• Assault with a deadly weapon or instrument, by any means likely to produce great bodily injury or with a stun gun or Taber on a school employee engaged in performance of duties (PC section 245.5).
• Shooting at an inhabited or occupied dwelling house, building, vehicle, aircraft, horsecart or camper (PC section 246).
• Discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner (PC section 246.3)
• Shooting at an unoccupied aircraft, motor vehicle, or uninhabited building or dwelling house (PC section 247)
• Inflicting corporal injury on a spouse or significant other (PC section 273.5)
• Willfully violating a domestic protective order (PC section 273.6).
• Drawing, exhibiting, or using any deadly weapon other than a firearm (PC sections 417(a)(1), 417(a)(2)).
• Brandishing a firearm in presence of a peace officer (PC section 417.1 – repealed by stats. 1998).
• Drawing or exhibiting, selling, manufacturing, or distributing firearm replicas or imitations (PC section 417.2).
• Inflicting serious bodily injury as a result of brandishing (PC section 417.6).
• Bringing into or possessing firearms upon or within public schools and grounds (PC section 626.9).
• Stalking (PC section 646.9).
• Armed criminal action (PC section 12023).
• Possessing a deadly weapon with intent to commit an assault (PC section 12024).
• Driver or any vehicle who knowingly permits another person to discharge a firearm from the vehicle or any
person who will fully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle (PC sections 12034(b), 12034(d)).
• Criminal possession of a firearm (PC section 12040).
• Firearms dealer who sells or transfers or gives possession of any firearm to a minor or a handgun to a person under the age of 21 (PC section 12072(b)).
• Various violations involving sales and transfers of firearms (PC section 12072(g)(3)).
• Person or corporation who sells any concealable firearm to any minor (PC section 12100(a) – repealed by stats. 1994).
• Unauthorized possession/transportation of a machine gun (PC section 12220).
• Possession of ammunition designed to penetrate metal or armor (PC section 12320).
• Carrying a concealed or loaded firearm or other deadly weapon or wearing a peace officer uniform, while picketing (PC section 12590).
• Bringing firearm related contraband into juvenile hall (WIC section 871.5).
• Bringing firearm related contraband into a youth authority institution (WIC section 1001.5).
• Purchase, possession, or receipt of a firearm or deadly weapon by a person receiving in-patient treatment for a mental disorder, or by a person who has communicated to a licensed psychotherapist a serious threat of physical
violence against an identifiable victim (WIC section 8100).
• Providing a firearm or deadly weapon to a person described in WIC sections 8100 or 8103 (WIC section 8101).
• Purchase, possession, or receipt of a firearm or deadly weapon by a person who has been adjudicated to be a mentally disordered sex offender or found to be mentally incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of insanity, and individuals placed under a conservatorship (WIC section 8103).

FEDERAL PROHIBITING CATEGORIES FOR POSSESSING FIREARMS
Gun Control Act of 1968, Title 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44
As of January, 1999

Pursuant to Section 922, any person listed below is prohibited from possessing, shipping, transporting, or receiving any firearm, who:
• Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.
• Is a fugitive from justice.
• Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
• Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution.
• Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
• Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
• Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship.
• Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
• Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
• Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.
• Has an out-of-state prohibitive criminal history.
• Has a prior denial on a previous National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) inquiry.

BanjoGunner
11-30-2010, 10:02 PM
See "Prohibiting Conditions" in Brandon's post below

You can sign up to volunteer here: www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer
Thanks for the the response obeygiant.

I appear to be free of any of the "Prohibiting Conditions" so that's at least a good start. Next I need to spend some time carefully reading all the information here and then I'll likely be signing up to volunteer.

tabrisnet
12-02-2010, 1:14 PM
Is there anything we (as members, contributors, citizens) can do to get the ball rolling in Santa Clara County? Specifically for getting the GC statements? Is this already in progress?

dantodd
12-02-2010, 1:24 PM
Is there anything we (as members, contributors, citizens) can do to get the ball rolling in Santa Clara County? Specifically for getting the GC statements? Is this already in progress?

Brandon is working at full capacity to get gc statements from all the counties. They will get worked on as they come in. Unless you know the sheriff and can convince her to release the information without getting sued and/or waiting on the outcome of the Ventura suit there isn't really much that can be done.

grib
12-02-2010, 5:05 PM
Fully support what we're doing here. Please let me know what is required to make this successful. :thumbsup:

yellowfin
12-08-2010, 1:22 PM
http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Pinckney+MI+48169 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan

According to this, Hell is currently frozen, so what's the delay now? :toetap05:

tabrisnet
12-08-2010, 7:10 PM
If I remember correctly, it requires a flood and then a freeze. It's not only the temp that establishes that it has frozen _over_.

I'm a former Michigander, albeit not from Hell MI.

wildhawker
12-08-2010, 7:11 PM
We have good cause info in hand, but it will take a couple of weeks to redact and scan. Please stay patient - Santa Clara is on the radar.

2Cute2Shoot
12-08-2010, 7:16 PM
i hope more people will get ccw in Santa Clara eventually! Sheriff Laurie Smith is actually awesome and i love it that there is a female sheriff there, and actually it is not her but all the liberal people in Santa Clara that are the ones who don't want ccw. :mad: i think if things change, she would give lots of ccw's!! :)

ColdDeadHands1
12-08-2010, 7:34 PM
i hope more people will get ccw in Santa Clara eventually! Sheriff Laurie Smith is actually awesome and i love it that there is a female sheriff there, and actually it is not her but all the liberal people in Santa Clara that are the ones who don't want ccw. :mad: i think if things change, she would give lots of ccw's!! :)

Seriously? Not sure if you're joking or not. Sheriff Smith is absolutely anti CCW unless of course you concede to her corrupt ways. A mere $5k "campaign donation" is sure to get you a CCW in SCC. I wouldn't be surprised if she lands in jail at some point in the forseeable future.

ColdDeadHands1
12-08-2010, 7:36 PM
We have good cause info in hand, but it will take a couple of weeks to redact and scan. Please stay patient - Santa Clara is on the radar.

This is absolutely great news Brandon. Finally some visible movement on SCC! I already have my app filled out and am waiting for the word.:chris:

Thanks again for all your hard work.

wildhawker
12-08-2010, 8:29 PM
This is absolutely great news Brandon. Finally some visible movement on SCC! I already have my app filled out and am waiting for the word.:chris:

Thanks again for all your hard work.

You might have to fill out your app again, but glad you're ready to roll. ;)


i hope more people will get ccw in Santa Clara eventually! Sheriff Laurie Smith is actually awesome and i love it that there is a female sheriff there, and actually it is not her but all the liberal people in Santa Clara that are the ones who don't want ccw. :mad: i think if things change, she would give lots of ccw's!! :)

I really have to ask you what you're basing your assertions on. We have real data which shows otherwise. If you have something tangible, please PM me as I'm very curious as to what evidence you have that would suggest Sheriff Smith is even mildly pro-CCW.

tabrisnet
12-08-2010, 9:10 PM
Seriously? Not sure if you're joking or not. Sheriff Smith is absolutely anti CCW unless of course you concede to her corrupt ways. A mere $5k "campaign donation" is sure to get you a CCW in SCC. I wouldn't be surprised if she lands in jail at some point in the forseeable future.

Is it tax deductible? ;)

Paladin
12-08-2010, 9:13 PM
i hope more people will get ccw in Santa Clara eventually! Sheriff Laurie Smith is actually awesome and i love it that there is a female sheriff there, and actually it is not her but all the liberal people in Santa Clara that are the ones who don't want ccw. :mad: i think if things change, she would give lots of ccw's!! :)2C2S, if you want to help more people get CCWs, you could start by using my "business card fliers" (see my 15 things YOU CAN DO linked in my sig line), to share w/people about what CGF is trying to accomplish. Again, today, I met another total stranger (he was wearing a camo baseball hat), struck up a conversation, and 5 min later had another "convert." If you choose your "targets" its like shooting fish in a barrel. More ideas can be found here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=362574

Sheriff Smith can change things anytime she wants. She could start accepting self-defense for GC right now if she wanted. That way people who want a CCW could actually get one. She could even start w/baby steps like posting some -- any! -- information about CCWs on their website. But she has chosen not to.

Unfortunately, I think you've made a different choice than Luke . . . .

Vdc7v4vkbJI

tabrisnet
12-08-2010, 9:20 PM
You might have to fill out your app again, but glad you're ready to roll. ;)

The next question is, where can one go to practice the drill for qualifying... Not that the reqs are very high, but when I went to the range to test myself on the SCC Sheriff reqs, I got in trouble for firing too fast. 10 shots in 20 seconds is too fast.

vladbutsky
12-09-2010, 12:30 AM
The next question is, where can one go to practice the drill for qualifying... Not that the reqs are very high, but when I went to the range to test myself on the SCC Sherrif reqs, I got in trouble for firing too fast. 10 shots in 20 seconds is too fast.

Metcalf range. Every 1st and 3rd Sunday from 10am to 4pm at 75yard range.
PM me if you want more details.

tabrisnet
12-09-2010, 2:04 PM
Seriously? Not sure if you're joking or not. Sheriff Smith is absolutely anti CCW unless of course you concede to her corrupt ways. A mere $5k "campaign donation" is sure to get you a CCW in SCC. I wouldn't be surprised if she lands in jail at some point in the forseeable future.

If it were to be found to be illegal for her to require a donation/bribe, would that not also produce charges for those who donated in order to get a CCW?

BanjoGunner
12-18-2010, 7:56 AM
Volunteered and sponsored.

Gray Peterson
12-18-2010, 8:41 AM
If it were to be found to be illegal for her to require a donation/bribe, would that not also produce charges for those who donated in order to get a CCW?

Yep.

ColdDeadHands1
12-18-2010, 10:01 AM
We have good cause info in hand, but it will take a couple of weeks to redact and scan. Please stay patient - Santa Clara is on the radar.

Looking forward to the GC statements. Hope all is proceeding well with the redaction effort.

You guys are probably seeing a lot of this:

"I live in Saratoga and am afraid of people from San Jose coming into my neighborhood. Laurie should have received my $5,000 donation by now."

ColdDeadHands1
12-28-2010, 1:11 AM
Bumpin up the stale Santa Clara thread! Anything new out there on the GC Statements?

Along those lines, once they are released, then what? Do we find one that fits our situation and apply?

Flopper
12-28-2010, 11:54 AM
i hope more people will get ccw in Santa Clara eventually! Sheriff Laurie Smith is actually awesome and i love it that there is a female sheriff there, and actually it is not her but all the liberal people in Santa Clara that are the ones who don't want ccw. :mad: i think if things change, she would give lots of ccw's!! :)

You should change your name to "Miss Information."

Gray Peterson
12-28-2010, 12:01 PM
You should change your name to "Miss Information."

No sheriff has been defeated over the sole issue of CCW ever in the state's history. Ever. The sheriff herself has the authority to issue licenses.

2Cute2Shoot, if you know Laurie Smith personally, please advise her that the County Board of Supervisors has no authority to restrict her issuance of licenses, and her next election is 2014 and she will not be defeated over the issue of CCW. Sheriff Hennessey in San Francisco can more freely issue licenses and he still wouldn't be defeated for election. No one cares except for us and the Brady campaign crazies.

yellowfin
12-30-2010, 3:36 PM
her next election is 2014 and she will not be defeated over the issue of CCW. Of course that's the entire problem. She and the whole lot of them should have been thrown out over the issue LONG ago.No one cares except for us and the Brady campaign crazies.They sure do seem to disproportionately affect things given that it's only a tiny number of them.

kcbrown
12-30-2010, 3:57 PM
Of course that's the entire problem. She and the whole lot of them should have been thrown out over the issue LONG ago.They sure do seem to disproportionately affect things given that it's only a tiny number of them.

It's not their numbers, it's their power. People in High Places want to reserve RKBA strictly for themselves so they'll have a greater power advantage over us "little people". They probably think that by doing things that way, they reduce the risk to themselves. It's another variation of the "outlaw all guns and there won't be any more gun crimes" argument.

2Cute2Shoot
12-31-2010, 3:57 PM
You should change your name to "Miss Information."

Well that is just nasty & i am not even sure what it means. :mad:

tabrisnet
12-31-2010, 4:01 PM
I'm not taking a stance in way or the other, but the meaning is clear enough.

Miss Information -> mIsinformation. The claim being that your view on the SCSO Sheriff is either biased or simply wrong.

2Cute2Shoot
12-31-2010, 4:08 PM
No sheriff has been defeated over the sole issue of CCW ever in the state's history. Ever. The sheriff herself has the authority to issue licenses.

2Cute2Shoot, if you know Laurie Smith personally, please advise her that the County Board of Supervisors has no authority to restrict her issuance of licenses, and her next election is 2014 and she will not be defeated over the issue of CCW. Sheriff Hennessey in San Francisco can more freely issue licenses and he still wouldn't be defeated for election. No one cares except for us and the Brady campaign crazies.

Hi Gray :) well i was ignorant about this too and so mad about ccw's until i got to know some officers from San Jose. They totally explained everything to me.

first, it is not that sheriff smith would lose her sheriff's race if she gave out ccw's to everybody. :rolleyes: that is not the issue. What is the issue is that many people in Santa Clara (and CA for that matter :() are very 'anti' gun. So just know that sheriff smith is conservative!! :) tho i have never talked to her personally, lots of officers have told me this and that she was supported by all the big republicans!

so anyway....I have been told that if the sheriff were giving out ccw's to everybody, and then if one of those people would do a crime or shoot somebody, etc, there would be lots of angry people who are anti-gun and they would be complaining not only about the sheriff but also about the supervisors and councilpeople, etc and they would get tons of bad press. So basically all the politicians..even those that are 'conservative' are telling sheriff smith to just keep on what she is doing :(

So what i am saying is not to make some big donation :mad: or a payoff, but just get to know some of the officers so that they know about your character and that you are totally safe to have a ccw. Now that is only a start, but if you can see it from their points, they also just want to keep their jobs and also keep San Jose/Santa Clara safe!

Paladin
01-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Preface: this is long winded and not primarily aimed at you, 2C2S, because you're a young adult and I believe have been led astray by people you respect. This post is long because the issue is, I'm confident, one many other (incl lurkers), wrestle with, so I'm using your statements to explain my hard line position to them as well as you.

****

if the sheriff were giving out ccw's to everybody, and then if one of those people would do a crime or shoot somebody, etc, there would be lots of angry people who are anti-gun and they would be complaining not only about the sheriff but also about the supervisors and councilpeople, etc and they would get tons of bad press. So basically all the politicians..even those that are 'conservative' are telling sheriff smith to just keep on what she is doing

Whether we serfs, mere "civilians", get to exercise our RKBA (via a permission slip) is dependent upon what politicians think is in their own best interests? Our RKBA depends on whether someone else uses their RKBA to commit a crime??? Do I lose my 1st rt to Free Speech because someone else uses their 1st A rt to Free Speech to produce kiddie porn (a crime)?

Sorry, that's not how rights work, that is not the America I believe in and that's not the Constitution (incl BoR) that those "sworn officers" have sworn to uphold and defend. IMO, those LEOs are disgraces to both their uniforms and the US. They are cowards who'd rather work within a corrupt system than put their careers on the line by standing up for both the Constitution and what is right.

Questions: Why haven't those LEOs or their professional associations come out for taking CA to Shall Issue? Forty out of 50 states are Shall Issue and every state from the Mississippi River west to the Pacific Ocean is Shall Issue except for CA and they haven't had a problem w/it.

http://www.nraila.org/maps/rtc.jpg

Why don't those LEOs or their professional associations take a stand against the CA chiefs' and sheriffs' associations whenever they take stands against our Constitutional RKBA?

Like I said, they are cowards who put their own "treasure"/careers ahead of our country. That is why I no longer support ANY LE associations or their widows & orphans funds. Until they support my RKBA to protect my own life, why should I send them my money, beyond what they get paid? :confused: It cost them NOTHING to make a statement supporting Shall Issue, yet they will not do it. Yet want me to support them not only w/my words, but also w/my money?

Sorry, "homey don't play that game no more." That's what I told them whenever they called (they stopped calling a couple years ago), and that is what I suggest EVERY patriotic citizen (not just Calgunner) do too. Send all those dollars to CGF, CGN, SAF, NRA, CRPA, or whatever pro-RKBA org you think best and keep doing that until we win back ALL our RKBA. Then and only then will I think about sending them money again to help them out. But I doubt whether I will if they NEVER come out for positions, policies, or legislation that aids my RKBA.

So what i am saying is not to make some big donation or a payoff, but just get to know some of the officers so that they know about your character and that you are totally safe to have a ccw. Now that is only a start, but if you can see it from their points, they also just want to keep their jobs and also keep San Jose/Santa Clara safe!So, to get a RKBA for SD we have to go thru some informal, subjective vetting by various other LEOs. IOW, you have hang out w/them, pander to them by becoming their "friend" and learning to talk like they talk, to wiggle your way into their Good Ol' Boys' Club/clique and become one of "them" vs a mere "civilian." ("Do I say '12050' or '12-0-50' or '12-050'? :confused: If I get it wrong, I won't be able to hang w/the 'kool kids' and get a CCW." Believe it or not, someone who considers themselves a Right Person actually said as much as that and made the argument online that you've got to get the lingo down pat to be a "serious candidate" for the "grave responsibility" of CCWing.:rolleyes: I guess that Confused Person must be against AZ's new Constitutional Carry law.)

That is what I meant by suggesting that you've gone over to the Dark Side and don't even realize it. Previously, you've stated that you've compromised/restricted your 1st A Freedom of Speech because your LEO "friends" have told you if you want a CCW, you should not post often on CGN lest the Wrong People (aka feudal lords, politicians w/guns & badges, anti sheriffs) find out and choose not to grant you a CCW because of that. That Confused Person also said that discussing your GC on a public forum or even posting images (sans reg. numbers) of your guns on a public forum shows a sufficient lack of "discretion" that you should not be granted the privilege of getting a CCW to defend your or other innocents' lives. Un-frickin' believable! :mad:

Step back and think about this for a moment: exercising your 1st A rts by being a contributing member of an informal, online association (CGN's forum), that is dedicated -- like the NRA -- to defending our 2nd A RKBA puts at risk your RKBA via a CCW. That is the system Laurie has in place. That the system your LEO "friends" have sold you on. That is the system you are saying we should work within. :( Sorry, that is the system we think needs either radical reforming or replacing. That is the system we are fighting against!

2C2S all you've learned is how to work the corrupt system that is in place. This is nothing new to those of us who've been in this fight for years (some for decades). A Right Person contacted me and said I'd probably be able to get a CCW (and they'd help me), right now if that's what I want. I've been doing what I've been doing for years so that I and everyone else who is not disqualified can apply and get a CCW for "mere" SD because that's the closest I think we can get in this state at this time. I'm saving my application for when it will help w/that goal.

As Yoda said, the Dark Side is easier and more seductive, but once you go down that route, it will dominate your life. I hope you change your mind and turn back, and embrace your 1st A rt to Free Speech, even if it means losing your CCW privilege for a time. Rejoin us in the fight to take this state to Shall Issue.

Either way, you can avoid most problems that might make you ever need a CCW by following some advice I've posted at (post #2): http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=368887. (rant off)

PUJX1h7rU6Q

blakdawg
01-01-2011, 3:26 PM
That is why I no longer support ANY LE associations or their widows & orphans funds. Until they support my RKBA to protect my own life, why should I send them my money, beyond what they get paid?

It's not at all clear to me that any of the "LE" associations that have solicited me for funds are actually significantly run by LEO's or have any serious LEO-related purpose. Most of them seem to be scams (http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2005/05/23/daily44.html) trying to extract $ based on either sympathy or the hope that putting a "I contributed" sticker on one's car will help avoid traffic tickets.

The "make friends with the deputies to get a CCW" trick might work if one is young, female, and "too cute to shoot" but probably not a big winner for middle-aged guys who don't have time or patience to spend a lot of time flirting and kissing ***.

gotthelife4u
01-01-2011, 5:11 PM
+1 to Paladin. Excellent post. I have had some interactions with a few San Jose Officers and most of them seem to favor CCW. One officer works a pay job at the Starbucks I hang out at and he was all for it. Not he may have been joking but he said it would make their jobs easier if all they had to do was show up to a call and call in the coroner. I told him he should become the new Chief of Police. I haven't really had any interaction with Santa Clara County Deputy's so I have no idea where they stand. That one officer From San Jose was a great cop to talk with, he was very sharp when it came to 2A. Hell he even had an idea about bullet buttons.

gotthelife4u
01-01-2011, 5:12 PM
The "make friends with the deputies to get a CCW" trick might work if one is young, female, and "too cute to shoot" but probably not a big winner for middle-aged guys who don't have time or patience to spend a lot of time flirting and kissing ***.

Badge Bunnies!!;)

Monticore
01-10-2011, 12:53 PM
I have a semi-serious idea for a "Good Cause" statement for me.

I live on the edge of Downtown San Jose.
<400 feet from one school.
<1,000 feet from a second school.

It seems a recent judge said that UOC is good enough(my loose interpretation).
But I cannot UOC in my neighborhood due to the GFSZ's.

Doesn't that leave me helpless?
Wouldn't the only option I have come from being allowed a CCW?
GFSZ's won't be waived for little ole me, so now what?

Wildhawker, am I barking up the wrong tree here?
If I moved would it open me up to losing the CCW, assuming I did not move back into a GFSZ?
For me, is the GC statement you guys are working on better for me to focus on, than my "I have no other option" idea?

tabrisnet
01-10-2011, 1:11 PM
I'm not so much better, given there are a few schools around where I live and I have to drive past a Montessori every day to go to work.

Still, I doubt that they would accept it. Consider the problem from their side of the equation. They would ask a) how does that separate you from the other citizenry b) what additional risk does that put on YOU?

So it might work in a court as an argument that CCW is the preferred method of carry in California (or much of anywhere), but I'm doubting that it would budge a Sheriff.

choprzrul
01-10-2011, 2:05 PM
I have a semi-serious idea for a "Good Cause" statement for me.

I live on the edge of Downtown San Jose.
<400 feet from one school.
<1,000 feet from a second school.

It seems a recent judge said that UOC is good enough(my loose interpretation).
But I cannot UOC in my neighborhood due to the GFSZ's.

Doesn't that leave me helpless?
Wouldn't the only option I have come from being allowed a CCW?
GFSZ's won't be waived for little ole me, so now what?

Wildhawker, am I barking up the wrong tree here?
If I moved would it open me up to losing the CCW, assuming I did not move back into a GFSZ?
For me, is the GC statement you guys are working on better for me to focus on, than my "I have no other option" idea?

It would seem that in your situation, you have no means by which to bear arms. The law has completely separated you from your civil rights.

.

wildhawker
01-10-2011, 2:16 PM
We're close to posting the approved GC statements for SC County.

It's doubtful that living in a school zone (precluding UOC) would be viewed as grounds for a CCW.

-Brandon

I have a semi-serious idea for a "Good Cause" statement for me.

I live on the edge of Downtown San Jose.
<400 feet from one school.
<1,000 feet from a second school.

It seems a recent judge said that UOC is good enough(my loose interpretation).
But I cannot UOC in my neighborhood due to the GFSZ's.

Doesn't that leave me helpless?
Wouldn't the only option I have come from being allowed a CCW?
GFSZ's won't be waived for little ole me, so now what?

Wildhawker, am I barking up the wrong tree here?
If I moved would it open me up to losing the CCW, assuming I did not move back into a GFSZ?
For me, is the GC statement you guys are working on better for me to focus on, than my "I have no other option" idea?

tabrisnet
01-10-2011, 2:31 PM
Hopefully in less than 2 weeks.

BoxesOfLiberty
01-21-2011, 6:09 PM
We're close to posting the approved GC statements for SC County.

Even closer, now?

Anything Laurie's subjects can do to help?

dantodd
01-21-2011, 8:58 PM
So what i am saying is not to make some big donation :mad: or a payoff, but just get to know some of the officers so that they know about your character and that you are totally safe to have a ccw. Now that is only a start, but if you can see it from their points, they also just want to keep their jobs and also keep San Jose/Santa Clara safe!

Sounds like a good way to dole out constitutional rights and keep the dark skinned folks from getting all uppity to boot. Why didn't I think of that.

(That was sarcasm in the event that ANYONE on this board could possibly be so impaired as to take any of that at face value.)

Monticore
01-24-2011, 12:40 PM
Hopefully in less than 2 weeks.

It's been the dreaded 2 weeks! haha

sepiid
01-26-2011, 5:03 PM
I went and got my HSC just before Christmas in anticipation for this. i am just waiting on the word/guidance to make my CCW Handgun Decision.

Flopper
01-31-2011, 10:34 AM
Are we there yet?

:hide:

Luieburger
01-31-2011, 4:29 PM
Are we there yet?


I check for the "Santa Clara - **TIME TO APPLY**" thread every day. We're all chomping at the bit.

ColdDeadHands1
02-02-2011, 11:13 PM
We have good cause info in hand, but it will take a couple of weeks to redact and scan. Please stay patient - Santa Clara is on the radar.

He inferred 2 weeks but really meant 2 months!:o

I'm sure the delay will be worth it when Brandon and the guys publish all the GC statements and tell us to go apply!

This is a true test in patience!

yellowfin
02-03-2011, 8:28 AM
Preston had corruption evidence on Laurie Smith 2 years ago. What happened with that?

ColdDeadHands1
02-06-2011, 11:02 PM
Are we there yet?

:hide:

I check for the "Santa Clara - **TIME TO APPLY**" thread every day. We're all chomping at the bit.

He inferred 2 weeks but really meant 2 months!:o

I'm sure the delay will be worth it when Brandon and the guys publish all the GC statements and tell us to go apply!

This is a true test in patience!

The fact that Brandon and the others working on this have ignored our obvious probes for information means they must be really, really close to publishing the GC. Otherwise, they would have told us to STFU by now! :43:

Flopper
02-07-2011, 9:53 AM
Preston had corruption evidence on Laurie Smith 2 years ago. What happened with that?

I'm curious as well.

Quite a few people wouldn't be too sad if US Marshals showed up at her office with a federal warrant.

CharAznable
02-15-2011, 12:20 AM
We're close to posting the approved GC statements for SC County.

It's been a bit over a month - are we any closer? :)

Luieburger
02-15-2011, 11:35 AM
It's been a bit over a month - are we any closer? :)

Are we any closer? Yes! How much closer? I couldn't tell you ;)

Monticore
02-15-2011, 1:05 PM
It would be great if this would coincide with the events from the "Any Updates on Cal-Guns fight against the High Cap magazine ban..." thread in the main 2A forum.

Getting a CCW with standard(high) capacity magazines in Santa Clara County would be quite the impressive feat.

ColdDeadHands1
02-15-2011, 1:24 PM
It would be great if this would coincide with the events from the "Any Updates on Cal-Guns fight against the High Cap magazine ban..." thread in the main 2A forum.

Getting a CCW with standard(high) capacity magazines in Santa Clara County would be quite the impressive feat.

Don't be greedy! One thing at a time, starting with Santa Clara County CCW!

Monticore
02-15-2011, 1:27 PM
Don't be greedy! One thing at a time, starting with Santa Clara County CCW!

Quite true. What's the use of a 15 round mag that I can only use at the range?

Can one of the people in the know respond back and tell us SCC CCW is 2 weeks away still? Just so we know we haven't been forgotten about.

Texas Boy
02-15-2011, 1:45 PM
Anyone been reading the "good cause" statements for other counties? I certainly haven't read them all, but I see a lot of "I own my own business, carry large sums of cash (or valuable equipment), and travel through bad parts of town at odd hours" type statements. I'm having a tough time visualizing how I would adapt most of these statements to my current situation.

For the majority of us who probably don't own a business and who probably live in a somewhat decent part of town and try to avoid the bad areas, I'm wondering if there will be a good cause statement that doesn't require some very creative wording....

emilio
02-15-2011, 2:06 PM
jeeze, if we got reliable good cause statements in Santa Clara...

well, that would be super rad, but also totally awful! why? i'd have to buy or build a nice carry piece! i swear, you people are so shortsighted, don't you know there's an economic crunch on?!

- emilio

ColdDeadHands1
02-15-2011, 3:47 PM
jeeze, if we got reliable good cause statements in Santa Clara...

well, that would be super rad, but also totally awful! why? i'd have to buy or build a nice carry piece! i swear, you people are so shortsighted, don't you know there's an economic crunch on?!

- emilio

I'm very interested in the next steps but I'm not so sure the publication of GC Statements automatically equates to you buying your carry piece. Somehow I think there will be more to it than that. I don't think Sheriff Smith is going to just start doling out CCW's!

I would like to hear from the conspicuously silent Brandon on what the next steps will be once GC Statements are available. Do we find one that was approved that hopefully is similar to our own situation and apply? And if we are rejected then sue? Or something entirely different. I just don't know.



PS: I think you are the shortsighted one. I already have my three carry pieces, ready to list on my application. What have you been doing the past few years during all the hype and build up? :D

kcbrown
02-15-2011, 4:39 PM
I'm betting that Peruta screwed us because in that case, they ruled (in essence, as I recall) that "equal protection" as applied to the CCW process only works when both the written GC statement and the oral interview contain essentially the same things.

If there's no formal record of the oral interviews then the SD can claim, without any evidence, that what you said in your oral interview differs substantially from what was said in the oral interview of the person whose good cause statement you're using as a basis for yours. And since they're a law enforcement agency, I'm sure they will be taken at their word on that.

If there is a formal record of the interview, then as long as the record isn't a full recording of the interview itself, the information that gets recorded will be at the discretion of the interviewer, and that means the interviewer can ensure that what they record for your is not the same as what was recorded for the person you're using as a reference for your good cause statement.


No, I strongly suspect (but have no proof) that we're pretty much done in Santa Clara and other "stronghold" counties. I strongly suspect that Peruta put a spike through the heart of any "equal protection" challenges that might be brought forth.

That means we have to wait for Richards or some other case to hit the Supreme Court (you don't really think the 9th is going to rule in our favor in Richards, do you?). And even after that, as long as the Sheriff has any discretion, they'll use it against us. For instance, they may have to accept "self defense" as a good cause statement, but that does not mean that they can't refuse to issue on the basis of "good moral character". And Richards doesn't touch on that at all that I know of.

CharAznable
02-16-2011, 9:36 AM
Then not to sound totally bitter (which I will), but here's hoping for cuts to the Sheriff's department similar to what's being talked about for the SJPD. Since they have no duty to protect us and won't let us protect ourselves then here's to hoping we get rid of most of them and maybe spend our money elsewhere...

Oh, and thanks Peruta. Thanks so much....

Gray Peterson
02-16-2011, 10:23 AM
Only one problem with your statement, kc: You're assuming that all counties do personal interviews.

Gray Peterson
02-16-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm betting that Peruta screwed us because in that case, they ruled (in essence, as I recall) that "equal protection" as applied to the CCW process only works when both the written GC statement and the oral interview contain essentially the same things.

If there's no formal record of the oral interviews then the SD can claim, without any evidence, that what you said in your oral interview differs substantially from what was said in the oral interview of the person whose good cause statement you're using as a basis for yours. And since they're a law enforcement agency, I'm sure they will be taken at their word on that.

If there is a formal record of the interview, then as long as the record isn't a full recording of the interview itself, the information that gets recorded will be at the discretion of the interviewer, and that means the interviewer can ensure that what they record for your is not the same as what was recorded for the person you're using as a reference for your good cause statement.

Then you haul the licensee who was approved into court during a trial and examine, and you then haul the interviewer and their command staff who made the decision and you pull them into the witness stand.

That was, I believe, the critical mistake of the Peruta case, when there's facts in dispute, you always want a trial to flesh out the facts. This is why the Perry case involving Proposition 8 worked out so well for the plaintiffs, because they had a trial.

Brandon went into great detail in another Peruta thread about "giving San Diego enough rope to hang the plaintiff". That is precisely what happened there. Guillory v. Gates, at it's core, was about not being able to put the Sheriff and his employees on the witness stand to question about equal protection issues and oral interviews.

That means we have to wait for Richards or some other case to hit the Supreme Court (you don't really think the 9th is going to rule in our favor in Richards, do you?). And even after that, as long as the Sheriff has any discretion, they'll use it against us. For instance, they may have to accept "self defense" as a good cause statement, but that does not mean that they can't refuse to issue on the basis of "good moral character". And Richards doesn't touch on that at all that I know of.

Richards actually does deal with good moral character. You're also forgetting the Nordyke factor.

kcbrown
02-16-2011, 2:04 PM
Then you haul the licensee who was approved into court during a trial and examine, and you then haul the interviewer and their command staff who made the decision and you pull them into the witness stand.


And get them during the questioning how, exactly? This all becomes a matter of "he said, she said", and statements by LEOs/LEAs are always given greater weight than those by ordinary people.



That was, I believe, the critical mistake of the Peruta case, when there's facts in dispute, you always want a trial to flesh out the facts. This is why the Perry case involving Proposition 8 worked out so well for the plaintiffs, because they had a trial.


But a fleshing out the facts in a trial only works in your favor if the discovered facts are what you need them to be. Why do you think that is how it will play out, particularly when (a) the court will give greater weight to the statements of the LEOs/LEAs than to those of normal people and (b) the LEOs/LEAs have plenty of reason to lie through their teeth, and can get away with it as long as they're consistent with whatever happens to be on record?




Richards actually does deal with good moral character. You're also forgetting the Nordyke factor.

At this rate, we're likely to have Constitutional carry here in California long before Nordyke actually gets decided.

kcbrown
02-16-2011, 2:19 PM
Only one problem with your statement, kc: You're assuming that all counties do personal interviews.

I'm betting all the "stronghold" ones do, because they're going to do everything they can to make the process as annoying and painful as possible, and to give themselves as much excuse as possible to reject your application.

Interestingly enough, though, Santa Clara doesn't appear to be such a county. And that really makes one wonder what's holding things up there, doesn't it?

Gray Peterson
02-16-2011, 2:47 PM
And get them during the questioning how, exactly? This all becomes a matter of "he said, she said", and statements by LEOs/LEAs are always given greater weight than those by ordinary people.

But a fleshing out the facts in a trial only works in your favor if the discovered facts are what you need them to be. Why do you think that is how it will play out, particularly when (a) the court will give greater weight to the statements of the LEOs/LEAs than to those of normal people and (b) the LEOs/LEAs have plenty of reason to lie through their teeth, and can get away with it as long as they're consistent with whatever happens to be on record?

That's not the point. The point being is that in county where only the politically powerful have licenses, the same politically powerful individuals, who will get subpoenas hauling them into court to testify as to interactions with the sheriff's office when they applied for their licenses, will make phone calls to the sheriff's re-election campaign and demand that the sheriff settle or else they pull the fundraising for themselves, their friends and colleagues, etc. Unless they are true died in the wool anti-gunners, they want to protect their families as much as any of the "normal folk", and will not tolerate being questioned in court. That's probably one of the bigger reasons Brad Gates settled in Orange County.

Chess, not checkers.

Btw, the gathering of good cause data is independent of equal protection litigation (of which I'm not aware of any such litigation in particular with Santa Clara). Such litigations would have such good cause data, under seal with full names, whereas the CGF Initiative Effort purely wants the good cause out there without the use of names or other personally identifying data.

At this rate, we're likely to have Constitutional carry here in California long before Nordyke actually gets decided.

Ye of little faith.

Gray Peterson
02-16-2011, 3:15 PM
I'm betting all the "stronghold" ones do, because they're going to do everything they can to make the process as annoying and painful as possible, and to give themselves as much excuse as possible to reject your application.

Interestingly enough, though, Santa Clara doesn't appear to be such a county. And that really makes one wonder what's holding things up there, doesn't it?

Let's be clear here: The Peruta litigation has zero to do with the release of the redacted good cause. None whatsoever.

We're delving into a realm of speculation about equal protection, given the cryptic statements of Billy Jack in terms of his website and his "Do you know the way to San Jose". Let's make sure we separate out those issues in our discussions, OK?

emilio
02-16-2011, 3:50 PM
I'm very interested in the next steps but I'm not so sure the publication of GC Statements automatically equates to you buying your carry piece. Somehow I think there will be more to it than that. I don't think Sheriff Smith is going to just start doling out CCW's!

absolutely, i'm just on the slippery slope of wishful thinking. baby steps, baby steps...

is there any use in applying now, knowing it will likely be rejected? that is, can we learn anything useful? is there a desire to have rejected CCW applicants from various socioeconomic and political backgrounds?

PS: I think you are the shortsighted one. I already have my three carry pieces, ready to list on my application. What have you been doing the past few years during all the hype and build up? :D

lol, paying student loans! i have a suitable carry piece in that it's reliable and nasty things come out the front, but it's also a full-size 1911. mmm, but i could get an HK.45C or build a bobtailed commander 1911...

- emilio

Flopper
02-16-2011, 3:54 PM
i have a suitable carry piece in that it's reliable and nasty things come out the front, but it's also a full-size 1911.

- emilio

In my experience full-size 1911's are not difficult to CCW whatsoever.

Get a good CCW carry rig and practice carrying it around in your home or wherever else it's legal to do so.

kcbrown
02-16-2011, 4:48 PM
That's not the point. The point being is that in county where only the politically powerful have licenses, the same politically powerful individuals, who will get subpoenas hauling them into court to testify as to interactions with the sheriff's office when they applied for their licenses, will make phone calls to the sheriff's re-election campaign and demand that the sheriff settle or else they pull the fundraising for themselves, their friends and colleagues, etc. Unless they are true died in the wool anti-gunners, they want to protect their families as much as any of the "normal folk", and will not tolerate being questioned in court. That's probably one of the bigger reasons Brad Gates settled in Orange County.

Chess, not checkers.


That is a consideration in our favor, to be sure.

I can't say how likely it is that any such person is going to be willing to testify in court in order to keep their privilege "special", but I would imagine that the motivation to do so is significant. Possibly not as significant as the motivation to avoid testifying, however...

Remember that the sitting sheriff will be explaining to the politically powerful people in question that if he capitulates, they lose their "special" status as regards CCW. And those politically powerful people wouldn't want to be around a bunch of ordinary joes carrying firearms, now would they?



Btw, the gathering of good cause data is independent of equal protection litigation (of which I'm not aware of any such litigation in particular with Santa Clara). Such litigations would have such good cause data, under seal with full names, whereas the CGF Initiative Effort purely wants the good cause out there without the use of names or other personally identifying data.
You appear to misunderstand why I tie the "good cause" initiative and "equal protection" cases together the way I do. In a "may issue" environment, the prospect (or, perhaps, outcome) of an "equal protection" suit is the only incentive an anti-gun sheriff would have to issue a CCW permit to a "non-special" person when said person's "good cause" statement is the same as that of one of the "special" people who have already been issued to.

Were it not for that, the sheriff would be able to deny the permit of the "non special" person even if that person's "good cause" were identical to that of someone who was issued a permit. Which is to say, the "sunshine initiative" can't do any real good without the "equal protection" teeth behind it. It can't help politically because sitting sheriffs are essentially undefeatable at the polls.

Unless, of course, there's something critical that I'm missing here...



Ye of little faith.History appears to be on my side on that one....

the big ravioli
02-17-2011, 6:41 AM
If & when they decide. I'm ready to apply... I'm also ready with my new Glock 39!

247Nino
02-19-2011, 3:28 AM
I want

Window_Seat
02-28-2011, 5:10 PM
$100.00 sponsored for Santa Clara.

Erik.

Kid Stanislaus
02-28-2011, 11:37 PM
jeeze, if we got reliable good cause statements in Santa Clara... well, that would be super rad, but also totally awful! why? i'd have to buy or build a nice carry piece! i swear, you people are so shortsighted, don't you know there's an economic crunch on?! - emilio


Would that be Emilio Castanan?

SiegeX
03-04-2011, 3:51 PM
Somebody help me with my ignorance, but what exactly is the driving force causing counties such as Sacramento and perhaps even our county of Santa Clara to move to a "shall issue" stance on CCW? It's certainly not out of the kindness of their heart

Flopper
03-04-2011, 3:56 PM
Somebody help me with my ignorance, but what exactly is the driving force causing the dominos to fall so to speak that, causing counties such as Sacramento and perhaps even our county of Santa Clara to move to a "shall issue" stance on CCW?

The non and very limited issue sheriffs and chiefs of police are breaking the law and violating the Constitution, mostly the sections that have to do with equal protection and due process, but there are many other areas of violation/non-compliance.

Reading this http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/152-ccw-initiative should give you a start on all the issues involved.

ColdDeadHands1
03-04-2011, 6:53 PM
We have good cause info in hand, but it will take a couple of weeks to redact and scan. Please stay patient - Santa Clara is on the radar.

Brandon, can you shed some light on what is going on? You wrote the above on 12/8, almost three months ago! I can't imagine it is taking this long to redact and scan especially when you previously thought it would take a couple weeks (by not saying 2 weeks you seem to have actually meant it:)).

I suspect you guys are holding the GC statements back for some reason. Can you let us in on the secret?

blakdawg
03-04-2011, 7:57 PM
Alternatively, do you need more volunteers to work on redacting the applications?

tabrisnet
03-04-2011, 8:02 PM
Hell, I work in Northern Santa Clara... I can't be far from the office.

sirgiles
03-08-2011, 10:11 PM
bump for update.

wildhawker
03-08-2011, 10:24 PM
Brandon, can you shed some light on what is going on? You wrote the above on 12/8, almost three months ago! I can't imagine it is taking this long to redact and scan especially when you previously thought it would take a couple weeks (by not saying 2 weeks you seem to have actually meant it:)).

I suspect you guys are holding the GC statements back for some reason. Can you let us in on the secret?

Sorry for the delay, but you'll understand soon why I say that I can't comment much on this for now... :chris:

heyjerr
03-09-2011, 11:13 AM
Living in Mountain View, I just called to have the department mail me their CCW policy. Should I hold off following up with them directly until I see something posted here?

tabrisnet
03-09-2011, 11:28 AM
Not commenting directly on your question, plz do provide us a copy of what you receive... I also am in Mountain View and am well interested in what they claim their policy is.

Pat Riot
03-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Sorry for the delay, but you'll understand soon why I say that I can't comment much on this for now... :chris:

Should we start getting our applications ready?

CharAznable
03-09-2011, 5:58 PM
Sorry for the delay, but you'll understand soon why I say that I can't comment much on this for now... :chris:

Can you hint how soon "soon" is? Don't say two weeks. :)

Window_Seat
03-20-2011, 8:31 PM
11-202
Requested By: relator Santa Clara County Correctional Peace Officers' Association, Inc.
Assigned To: Deputy Attorney General Taylor S. Carey

Question(s):

Are Laurie Smith and John Hirokawa unlawfully holding the offices of Sheriff, Undersheriff and Santa Clara County Chief of Corrections?

Legal Opinions Monthly Opinion Report (http://ag.ca.gov/opinions/monthly_report.php) (not yet published).

:popcorn:

Erik.

Pat Riot
03-20-2011, 10:04 PM
Looks like they haven't published an opinion yet this year. Any idea on how long this usually takes?

sfpcservice
03-21-2011, 9:01 AM
Sorry for the delay, but you'll understand soon why I say that I can't comment much on this for now... :chris:

It's been 2 weeks, out with it! :D

Seriously though, is CGF in possession of the documents or is the SO not providing them?

TabascoFiend
03-21-2011, 7:17 PM
Legal Opinions Monthly Opinion Report (http://ag.ca.gov/opinions/monthly_report.php) (not yet published).

:popcorn:

Erik.

Could someone elaborate on what this means for those of use that are not familiar with how these questions/opinions work. Was there more information or background that would have been submitted with this "question" which would establish some sort of legal question? Obviously, the submitters suspect/believe that there is something illegal about the situation, but it certainly isn't clear what that is based on the very general question. Are the legal requirements/qualifications for being the Santa Clara SO documented somewhere?

Tom

chris12
03-24-2011, 5:58 PM
CGF Supported: Scocca v. Smith (Santa Clara Carry Equal Protection, Sunshine)
http://http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=412790

wildhawker
03-24-2011, 6:10 PM
It's been 2 weeks, out with it! :D

Seriously though, is CGF in possession of the documents or is the SO not providing them?

And here you go: http://calgunsfoundation.org/news/169-scoccavsmith.html

We have the good cause statements, and they will be published shortly now.

-Brandon

Monticore
03-25-2011, 10:24 AM
We have the good cause statements, and they will be published shortly now.

Will you be updating this post once they are published?
I'm assuming they will be found on this page here:
http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/131-santa-clara.html

Window_Seat
03-25-2011, 10:39 AM
Will you be updating this post once they are published?
I'm assuming they will be found on this page here:
http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/131-santa-clara.html

I'm 100% certain that this thread will be updated & upgraded once that happens.

Erik

wildhawker
03-25-2011, 11:16 AM
I'm 100% certain that this thread will be updated & upgraded once that happens.

Erik

And Erik is 100% correct. :chris:

-Brandon

Monticore
03-29-2011, 12:55 AM
And Erik is 100% correct. :chris:

-Brandon

Ok, how about a hint?
I live in Downtown San Jose, 400 feet and 900 feet from a couple schools.
Red ragger neighborhood. I am not prohibited, no arrests, etc. Defense of self and family would be my Good Cause.

Anything coming up worth holding my breath over?

kertong
04-03-2011, 12:39 PM
Saw this article today: http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_17762451?source=rss&nclick_check=1

It angered me greatly - I spoke with TBJ a while back on the phone, and he was going through records at the time which showed that Laurie Smith had her undersheriff sign off a ccw testing form for some internet billionaire here, and in exchange, he sold her a 7 figure house in marin for pennies.

I'm not sure if tbj was making it up, or going on a hunch, but I have yet to see any development or confirmation/denial of the accusation. Is this something anyone can look into and verify?

blakdawg
04-03-2011, 1:28 PM
Saw this article today: http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_17762451?source=rss&nclick_check=1

It angered me greatly - I spoke with TBJ a while back on the phone, and he was going through records at the time which showed that Laurie Smith had her undersheriff sign off a ccw testing form for some internet billionaire here, and in exchange, he sold her a 7 figure house in marin for pennies.

I'm not sure if tbj was making it up, or going on a hunch, but I have yet to see any development or confirmation/denial of the accusation. Is this something anyone can look into and verify?

Yes, but it'd be a lot faster if someone knew the name of the billionaire.

tabrisnet
04-03-2011, 3:14 PM
Shouldn't it be easier to track the sales records to any houses, bought by her, rather than trying to determine the seller?

blakdawg
04-03-2011, 3:54 PM
Shouldn't it be easier to track the sales records to any houses, bought by her, rather than trying to determine the seller?

This would be easier if her last name wasn't "Smith". As far as I can tell, there are 85 properties in CA today owned by someone named "Laurie Smith". 2 of them are owned by Laurie R. Smith, which is how she's listed on the Santa Clara County Sheriff's webpage. Neither property is in/near Marin. There's a property in Tiburon owned by a Laurie A. Smith but it's co-owned with another person (probably a spouse) whose name is different from the co-owner of the two Laurie R. Smith properties.

I can see that much for free without spending money. I can get copies of the actual deeds for the transfers but that costs money, and I don't really want to start spending a lot of cash chasing vague friend-of-a-friend stories.

Also, it's trivial to buy a house in the name of a trust or another entity that's not apparently related, that won't show up in an easy public records search - so the fact that one can't find a Laurie R. Smith deed isn't dispositive. To really run this down, it'd be really helpful to have more specifics about the other side of the transaction, particularly where both sides of the transaction (billionaire + sheriff) have the means and motive to take at least basic steps to obscure their ownership in the property.

Window_Seat
04-07-2011, 10:51 AM
I also posted this to 2A, and think it might be of interest here...

So I'm driving back home from visiting some friends in San Jose (SJ), and on my way back home (at approx. 20:45 on 04/06/2011), I noticed a billboard that had a photo of a SJPD Officer, and an individual either in the background, or standing (or maybe he was sitting) next to the Officer. The sign was facing Northbound traffic on I-880 just before (or maybe just after) Brokaw Ave in SJ (where there are a series of other billboards in the area on both sides of the freeway). I didn't have a chance to be able to view the sign in detail, so keep in mind that some of my description might be way off.

There was a message in the advertisement that stated somewhat to the effect that "WHO'S GOING TO PROTECT YOU" or "SAVE YOU"... Then the next message describes a situation of Police Personnel layoffs that are possibly to come. It was (IMHO) something placed there to incite fear in the public, and maybe get everyone to maybe call someone they're supposed to call or write to, asking them not to lay-off Police. It might be a desperate attempt to get more people to think that they have to depend on the PD to "protect them".

This was not even more than 14 hours ago, and I made the promise that I was going to go back and take a pic, and post it right here.

This morning (around 1/2 hour ago), I throw on my blue Calguns Polo, I go back, "armed" with my camera, and ready to "point & shoot", and guess what... :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Of course, the sign has been taken down...

Questions I have regarding this is "who paid for the signs", maybe the Police Association, or the Union for the Police Officers?

This is something that I would consider as a reason WHY CCWSI should be more fast-tracked, and this is also something that the State Legislatures should be bombarded with (in a cordial manner). We know there will be PD lay-offs, but they are inciting fear in the public by telling everyone something that is COMPLETELY UNTRUE, and that is... Police might, or will protect individuals; See Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981).

I thought that everyone here, especially in the Santa Clara CCW forum might be interested in seeing the sign.

CGF: Can we ask folks to look for these types of signs, and maybe take pictures, and then post them here?

Of course, I'm kicking myself 7 ways from Sunday for not immediately stopping and at the very least, taking a pic with my cellphone camera, and I didn't think to turn around, but I was also running very low on gas at the time. I figure that since it was late at night... I like taking my pics during the day, but still, I'm kicking myself now.

Anyone in the Bay Area see a sign like this? It might not be a bad idea to start a photo-op campaign, that is if CGF thinks it's a good idea.

I'm posting this to the Santa Clara forum, but if the Mods think it doesn't belong here or there, I will respect that decision... And I ask that there be no LEO/A bashing.

Erik.

Flopper
04-07-2011, 2:56 PM
Window Seat:

I think it belongs here, I'll keep my eyes pealed for any others.

Demagoguery at its "finest," sheesh. . .

johnny_22
04-13-2011, 7:11 AM
This outfit has been advertising on KCBS from time to time. Saying the same things as that billboard:

http://www.protectsanjose.com/ from the SJPOA.

They are trying to change public opinion on cuts to their members.

Window_Seat
04-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Here is what I saw:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/trucknetter/SJPDAssociationBillboard.jpg?t=1302720613

Erik.

mizzou_shooter
04-22-2011, 12:50 PM
Hey Guys,
First off, thanks for your hard work trying to get CCW for everyone. We really appriciate it!

I'm going to be moving to Palo alto to start my residency in June and I have a few questions. I have read this thread and many others but I want to make sure I'm clear.

This lawsuit (if we win) would make it so anyone with a standard good clause statement would be issued a permit to carry. Any idea of the odds of winning this lawsuit? I know thats an impossible question but I was wondering if it is a long shot or a sure thing or somewhere inbetween..

Thanks guys!
Eric

Pat Riot
04-22-2011, 7:06 PM
Hey Guys,
First off, thanks for your hard work trying to get CCW for everyone. We really appriciate it!

I'm going to be moving to Palo alto to start my residency in June and I have a few questions. I have read this thread and many others but I want to make sure I'm clear.

This lawsuit (if we win) would make it so anyone with a standard good clause statement would be issued a permit to carry. Any idea of the odds of winning this lawsuit? I know thats an impossible question but I was wondering if it is a long shot or a sure thing or somewhere inbetween..

Thanks guys!
Eric

Eric,
When Mr. Scocca wins, anyone with a good cause similar to his would be issued a CCW. Furthermore, anyone with a good cause that is similar to one that the sheriff previously approved would also be given a CCW. I think this is why calguns is waiting to post the good cause statements. The only variable here is what is considered "similar good cause."

jcarrow
04-26-2011, 5:11 PM
How long is it going to be until this case gets held in the court?

ColdDeadHands1
04-26-2011, 5:22 PM
Hopefully, if everything plays out right, wait for it...



wait for it...



a little longer...


in just about :twoweeks:




Sorry, couldn't resist.

Kid Stanislaus
04-26-2011, 5:41 PM
Hopefully, if everything plays out right, wait for it...



wait for it...



a little longer...


in just about :twoweeks:




Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yet one more Calgunner with no will power!!:D

Dion
04-27-2011, 6:53 AM
I will be applying for ccw for both Santa Clara and Alameda county, with pretty solid just cause - I should've done this a long time ago considering what I do for a living. Looks like I'm going to wait for this to pan out before applying for SC, but I'm going to go for Alameda first.

*subscribed* :)

blakdawg
04-27-2011, 10:40 AM
How long is it going to be until this case gets held in the court?

The defendants' answer isn't even due until June - seriously, nothing is going to happen until 2012, maybe even late in 2012.

I have posted the waiver of service on behalf of the defendants at http://www.parrhesia.com/gov.uscourts.cand.238467.4.0.pdf. I have no connection to the case, but I do have a PACER account.

choprzrul
05-02-2011, 5:33 PM
I just noticed this news article (http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_17976966?source=rss&nclick_check=1) about SC county:

On Monday, County Executive Jeff Smith released his $4 billion recommended budget for the coming fiscal year, a plan to offset the county's current $219.6 million shortfall. Budget-balancing is required by law and, absent new revenue sources, shrinking the social safety net becomes the county government's last-resort -- a set of Hobson's Choices that pit programs for the homebound elderly against those serving abused children and the mentally ill.

Little would be left untouched under Smith's plan, with service reductions in the offices of the tax collector, clerk-recorder, veterans' affairs, public guardian and emergency services. Three units of the juvenile hall would be shuttered, along with an end to sheriff's patrol in rural areas.

I wonder if there might be some political hay to be made pointing out the costs associated with attempting to defend themselves in court for not issuing CCWs? Perhaps several well worded letters to the editor?

.

ColdDeadHands1
05-02-2011, 6:01 PM
I just noticed this news article (http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_17976966?source=rss&nclick_check=1) about SC county:


On Monday, County Executive Jeff Smith released his $4 billion recommended budget for the coming fiscal year, a plan to offset the county's current $219.6 million shortfall. Budget-balancing is required by law and, absent new revenue sources, shrinking the social safety net becomes the county government's last-resort -- a set of Hobson's Choices that pit programs for the homebound elderly against those serving abused children and the mentally ill.

Little would be left untouched under Smith's plan, with service reductions in the offices of the tax collector, clerk-recorder, veterans' affairs, public guardian and emergency services. Three units of the juvenile hall would be shuttered, along with an end to sheriff's patrol in rural areas.


I wonder if there might be some political hay to be made pointing out the costs associated with attempting to defend themselves in court for not issuing CCWs? Perhaps several well worded letters to the editor?

.

I live in rural Santa Clara County (in the Santa Cruz Mountains). The end to the sheriff's patrol has real life consequences for my family and I. There are known illegal pot growers, meth labs, and other illegal activities up here that will absolutely go unchecked if the sheriff patrols (aka deterrents) cease.

Hmmm... possible "Good Cause" statements for my CCW? Possible lawsuit when denied? What say you, Calguns gurus? I am willing and able to go down this road to break the CCW issuance control for myself and others in this county.

tabrisnet
05-02-2011, 7:05 PM
I wonder if there might be some political hay to be made pointing out the costs associated with attempting to defend themselves in court for not issuing CCWs? Perhaps several well worded letters to the editor?

.

Not likely [that easy], given that issuing CCWs costs money too, and the fees that can be charged are capped by the state.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that obeying the law costs money, not obeying the law costs money, and which are they more willing to pay?

Additionally, this does not defend against the [illegal] policy of the Sheriff's office saying you need to ask your municipal PD first.

tabrisnet
05-02-2011, 7:07 PM
I live in rural Santa Clara County (in the Santa Cruz Mountains). The end to the sheriff's patrol has real life consequences for my family and I. There are known illegal pot growers, meth labs, and other illegal activities up here that will absolutely go unchecked if the sheriff patrols (aka deterrents) cease.

Hmmm... possible "Good Cause" statements for my CCW? Possible lawsuit when denied? What say you, Calguns gurus? I am willing and able to go down this road to break the CCW issuance control for myself and others in this county.

This may have traction... but plz do consult a lawyer (or the CGF).

Infantry H2
05-02-2011, 9:47 PM
About to apply in Mountain View, Santa Clara Co
I am about to apply for a CCW permit to the mountain view pd and was hoping for some insight.
1. I had a speeding ticket on fort Carson in CO in 2007, paid and settled.
2. My GC is along the lines of: I'm an Army recruiter and in and out of uniform I've been harassed/targeted by anti war personnel. I carry government equipment with personal information of many applicants (ssn etc) and with that threatening letters on my privately owned vehicle.

So just looking to see if my GC is good and will the ticket hurt ke that bad?

Adeodatus
05-02-2011, 10:06 PM
About to apply in Mountain View
Let me know how that goes. I am also from MV and may apply soon. MVPD is pretty chill.

Infantry H2
05-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Molon Labe!

Flopper
05-03-2011, 3:41 PM
About to apply in Mountain View, Santa Clara Co
I am about to apply for a CCW permit to the mountain view pd and was hoping for some insight.
1. I had a speeding ticket on fort Carson in CO in 2007, paid and settled.
2. My GC is along the lines of: I'm an Army recruiter and in and out of uniform I've been harassed/targeted by anti war personnel. I carry government equipment with personal information of many applicants (ssn etc) and with that threatening letters on my privately owned vehicle.

So just looking to see if my GC is good and will the ticket hurt ke that bad?

No, but the fact that you're not special will.

ColdDeadHands1
05-25-2011, 10:58 PM
Bump for anything new?

Infantry H2
05-26-2011, 12:49 AM
So far, I sent the MVPD an email requesting info. They sent me a generic packet regarding the policy. When I asked about the possibility of getting an approval or if I was wasting my time, the Sergeant I was speaking to said that's on the Chief.

In my case, military training isn't good enough training though I have qualified on many weapon systems. And it's just a lot of money to flop down to get it simply reviewed (firearm training 150+ dollars and then the app fee fingerprint fee etc etc) so I'm going to get the AZ CCW first so I have some sort of background. Other than the military.

tabrisnet
05-26-2011, 6:40 AM
My understanding is that you don't need to get the training until after your CCW is approved, but before it is issued. Yes, I'd believe that MVPD/SCSO would say otherwise, but check with wildhawker, et al.

Infantry H2
05-26-2011, 9:20 AM
I'll check into the whole process again from MVPD. I know the SCSO isn't issueing or taking any CCW packet due to the lawsuit. I've been waiting on good cause statements but looks like I'll have to wing it.

Anonymous Coward
06-02-2011, 8:20 AM
And here you go: http://calgunsfoundation.org/news/169-scoccavsmith.html

We have the good cause statements, and they will be published shortly now.

-Brandon

Brandon, it's been more than two months since this post (March 24th). Are the good cause statements going to be published soon? Are they pending on the SC sheriff lawsuit or some other event?

Thanks!

Pat Riot
06-02-2011, 8:36 AM
1. Scocca's suit is equal protection. Meaning Sheriff Smith has issued to persons with similar good cause to Mr. Scocca, but refuses to issue to Mr. Scocca.

2. CalGuns has the good cause statements.

3. This is a slam dunk if #1 is accurate.

<hunch>Within the good cause statements is at least 1 referring to self-defense as good cause. Calguns wont release the GC statements until after the lawsuit is settled (in or out of court). Then basically turning anyone with self-defense good cause into Mr. Scocca. End result Santa Clara = Sacremento.

Since Mr. Scocca is the perfect candidate for this lawsuit (well respected, corporate director, prior law enforcement, etc), CGF etal doesnt want to muddy the waters with individuals that might not be as "perfect." However once this is settled, all that doesnt matter.</hunch>

tabrisnet
06-02-2011, 2:55 PM
Ultimately, the GC statements likely will be a part of discovery

Infantry H2
06-02-2011, 9:19 PM
This is a response from Mountain View PD...

The training is part of phase two.* All you have to do is complete phase one of the application at this time.* The answer to your second question is no.* I don’t have any good cause examples because I don’t know anyone who has one in this city.* I have not known this Chief to give any out thus far.*

Key points to this are bold.

kazman
06-02-2011, 9:34 PM
That sucks

Flopper
06-03-2011, 10:18 AM
That sucks

This is about as surprising as hearing today that water is still wet.

Damn True
06-14-2011, 10:37 AM
This is a response from Mountain View PD...

The training is part of phase two.* All you have to do is complete phase one of the application at this time.* The answer to your second question is no.* I don’t have any good cause examples because I don’t know anyone who has one in this city.* I have not known this Chief to give any out thus far.*

Key points to this are bold.

It's been a while since the Code Pinko's were staging their protests on the corner by your office. Are you getting directly hassled now?

erik_26
06-17-2011, 11:53 PM
I know a few Deputies, I feel weird asking them if they could by any remote chance help me get a CCW in Santa Clara.

I hate to bug, but is there an update to when we should apply and with what cause? Does anyone know if the Chief of Police in Gilroy is any more willing to issue CCW then the Sheriff?

Luieburger
07-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Vendor sponsorships:

Why don't we put the pressure on some of our local stores and get them to sign up?

See my post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6719720&postcount=9

Many of us are friendly with Valkyrie arms, and we showed overwhelming support for that gun store in Sunnyvale that was under attack last week. Many of us are customers at Reed's. Lets get these folks in gear and on board! Everybody benefits from CCWs.

BoxesOfLiberty
07-06-2011, 7:34 PM
Vendor sponsorships:

Why don't we put the pressure on some of our local stores and get them to sign up?

See my post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6719720&postcount=9

Many of us are friendly with Valkyrie arms, and we showed overwhelming support for that gun store in Sunnyvale that was under attack last week. Many of us are customers at Reed's. Lets get these folks in gear and on board! Everybody benefits from CCWs.

I think you are onto something here... they'll get on board a whole lot faster if they start hearing some encouragement from their customers.

Maybe some of them would let us put a sunshine initiative collection jar next to the register and show their support at no cost while helping to spread the word.

sobiloff
08-04-2011, 4:09 PM
Zzzzzzzzz.

Window_Seat
08-05-2011, 12:28 AM
I have yet to see a sandwich with caffeine... :p

Erik.

tabrisnet
08-31-2011, 3:48 PM
Ask thinkgeek to design one.

They already have showershock soap. And there was an April Fool's involving caffeinated meatloaf.

FreedomIsNotFree
09-27-2011, 7:20 PM
bump for an update if possible. Thanks.

racerguy180
09-28-2011, 12:02 AM
bump for an update if possible. Thanks.

Please wait "two weeks" for any information.






Just effin' around, I would also like to know how the lawsuit is going?

heyjerr
09-28-2011, 11:33 AM
Please wait "two weeks" for any information.

Just effin' around, I would also like to know how the lawsuit is going?

Is that like the "free beer tomorrow" sign? (Tomorrow is never today)

racerguy180
09-29-2011, 2:44 PM
Is that like the "free beer tomorrow" sign? (Tomorrow is never today)

Yes it is!

heyjerr
09-30-2011, 5:54 PM
Funny :) Hopefully they know we're just kiddin' around :mnl: while we wait for an update.

model63
10-06-2011, 5:16 PM
It is more likely than not the Maureen Naylor on KTVU got it incorrect, but she mentioned at her report at the Concrete/Quarry that the guy that snapped had a 'license' or 'permit' to carry concealed weapons and that he stored those weapons in this car??? Any info if this guy had an LTC? I'm about one step away from getting mine in Solano and don't want this guys actions to scare off Sheriffs Depts statewide from issuing LTC's going forward because of this guys bad example, even though it sounds like most of his actions were with a rifle or carbine of some kind...

model63
10-06-2011, 5:30 PM
I am assuming maybe since he had his own .40 S&W that she may have simply got wind that he was legit with a HSC and legally owned his handgun/firearm(s) and it wasn't stolen or unregistered...

Damn True
10-20-2011, 4:08 PM
Funny :) Hopefully they know we're just kiddin' around :mnl: while we wait for an update.

Also in Mountain View...also waiting for an update.

Hopefully we don't have to wait until Smith retires to see any change because it sure doesn't seem like anyone can beat her in an election.

ColdDeadHands1
10-26-2011, 12:21 AM
Any update on the release of the SCC good cause statements?

Infantry H2
10-26-2011, 8:07 AM
From the SCSO last week:

Unfortunately, the Sheriff's Office is not issuing CCW's at this time. *We
understand your concern, but because we are currently doing a policy
revision, we are holding off on accepting applications until its done.
Other than the Sheriff, the Chief of Police, from the city which you reside
in, also has the authority to issue CCWs.

Please feel free to check back with us on a monthly basis with regards to
our status.

sobiloff
10-26-2011, 8:28 AM
Must be nice to be able to suspend constitutional rights for indeterminate periods to perform vague "policy revisions." :rolleyes:

heyjerr
10-26-2011, 9:28 AM
They need time to figure out exactly how much of a "campaign contribution" will qualify you to exercise those rights.

Now, if I can only find the law that states extortion is considered a constitutional right.....

Infantry H2
10-26-2011, 9:31 AM
Hope for GOOD changes. I for one am looking forward to them. I have fought for my country with SBRs, AWs, 40mm GLs, full auto MGs from 556 to .50 cal, not to mention 120mm mortars basically everything California has made illegal I was given to defend it's freedoms. Yet I am not trusted by my county to defend myself or my family with a simple handgun. I'm still AD, a soldier at all times and sworn to protect Americans against all enemies foreign and domestic. But without a handgun.

We are all given Constitutional Rights, but i feel all of us who serve or served have earned them. I will wait and be patient for change.

Infantry H2
10-26-2011, 9:57 AM
I've heard they already matched up campaign contributors to the CCW list. I say again I heard...

njost
10-26-2011, 2:37 PM
I was considering getting one in Gilroy since the county seems to be out of bounds right now. How is Gilroy PD?

Flopper
10-26-2011, 2:50 PM
I was considering getting one in Gilroy since the county seems to be out of bounds right now. How is Gilroy PD?

Gilroy currently has two LTC's: one is for a reserve officer, one is for a civilian.

Relevant info is here:

http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/41-2011-ca-doj-data-active-ltc-report.html

ColdDeadHands1
11-16-2011, 11:56 PM
Another monthly bump for the "Soon to be released" GC statements... Brandon, any update on when you will be cutting loose these precious documents?

The waiting is painful. This was me when all the excitement started :68:

Then some jerk said :twoweeks:

Then it turned into this :gene:

And finally, over a year after all the fun started, I am feeling like this :oji:

I'll tell you what, just email the files over to me. I won't tell anyone!

guncurious
11-19-2011, 6:33 AM
Do private attorneys within SCC have a greater chance of receiving a CCW?

Pat Riot
11-19-2011, 8:09 AM
Another monthly bump for the "Soon to be released" GC statements... Brandon, any update on when you will be cutting loose these precious documents?

see http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=412790&page=7

We wont see anything until at least Feb.

Window_Seat
11-19-2011, 10:53 AM
Case management conference order in reassigned cases (http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.cand.238467/gov.uscourts.cand.238467.25.0.pdf) (from 11/03)

Erik.

jcarrow
11-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Is the reassignment a good thing or not? Did one judge lean to one side or the other? Was the reassignment a positive thing?

Pat Riot
11-26-2011, 10:01 PM
Here is the schedule from the joint case management conference statement.

-Last Day to Amend Complaint January 6, 2012
-Fact Discovery Cutoff August 31, 2012
-Hearing on Dispositive Motions September 28, 2012
-Expert Discovery Cutoff December 14, 2012
-Pretrial Conference January 15, 2013
-Trial January 28, 2013

For all of those wondering when we will see the good cause statements... No later than 31 August 2012. Thats if MTD is not granted.

Spaceghost
11-28-2011, 1:12 PM
With that trial schedule, maybe Ajax's Montana thing might hit first. The wheels of justice turn very slowly these days.

ColdDeadHands1
11-28-2011, 9:48 PM
Wow. Case filed 3/18/2011. Trial date 1/28/13. Nearly TWO YEARS to be heard in front of a judge. Couple this with Masciandaro being denied SCOTUS cert and today is a very depressing day for any hope of getting a LTC in Santa Clara County for at least two more friggin years. I am disgusted.

I may just submit my application for sh$ts and giggles and to have that handy denial in my pocket. Now, if only we could see those GC statements...

Damn True
11-28-2011, 10:55 PM
Unreal.



Hopefully we don't have to wait until Smith retires to see any change because it sure doesn't seem like anyone can beat her in an election.

Smith is going to have to retire or die (of natural causes of course) before there is CCW in this county. Nobody is going to beat her in an election, and she and her ilk have enough juice to keep this mired in the courts until a few more generations of useful idiots are old enough to vote.... And. We. Are. F#(%ed.

I read my Great-Grandfathers journals from the late 1800's early 1900's in this valley and it's hard to believe he's talking about the same place in which I now reside. How much it has changed and how poorly so.

Pat Riot
11-30-2011, 8:49 AM
Unreal.



Smith is going to have to retire or die (of natural causes of course) before there is CCW in this county. Nobody is going to beat her in an election, and she and her ilk have enough juice to keep this mired in the courts until a few more generations of useful idiots are old enough to vote.... And. We. Are. F#(%ed.

I read my Great-Grandfathers journals from the late 1800's early 1900's in this valley and it's hard to believe he's talking about the same place in which I now reside. How much it has changed and how poorly so.

When Scocca wins, if the GC's show even 1 "self defense/protection", the only thing that would prevent/stop non-criminals from obtaining LTC's would be a new sheriff.

Here's to hoping she is reelected for life. (After Scocca win of course).

Damn True
11-30-2011, 1:02 PM
Hadn't thought about it that way. Interesting.

I should be more clear. I'm in no way directing negativity toward the people who are working on this thing. Just upset that it's an issue at all, and that it's been solved in other parts of the state and not here.

pMcW
12-11-2011, 2:38 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=509960

Damn True
01-25-2012, 5:55 PM
Here is the schedule from the joint case management conference statement.

-Last Day to Amend Complaint January 6, 2012
-Fact Discovery Cutoff August 31, 2012
-Hearing on Dispositive Motions September 28, 2012
-Expert Discovery Cutoff December 14, 2012
-Pretrial Conference January 15, 2013
-Trial January 28, 2013

For all of those wondering when we will see the good cause statements... No later than 31 August 2012. Thats if MTD is not granted.

One down. 13mos to go.

BoxesOfLiberty
02-15-2012, 3:04 PM
One down. 13mos to go.

I'm guessing that due to the stay it could be a little bit longer, now.

erik_26
03-02-2012, 2:35 PM
I just picked up an application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon from the City of Gilroy Police Department.

I have scanned it into PDF format. If any of the experts would like me to email them the forms for review, please PM me.

Mr Blu
03-29-2012, 2:59 PM
Just like erik 26.

I just picked up an application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon for Santa Clara County.

I have scanned it into PDF format. If any of the experts would like me to email them the forms for review, please PM me.

Mr Blu
03-29-2012, 2:59 PM
Just like erik 26.

I just picked up an application for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon for Santa Clara County.

I have scanned it into PDF format. If any of the experts would like me to email them the forms for review, please PM me.

tabrisnet
03-29-2012, 7:39 PM
Any reason to believe the app in Santa Clara County has changed in last few years?

Mr Blu
03-30-2012, 12:41 AM
I'm asking for help in filling it out properly, so I don't look like an idiot, or give them an opening for scrutiny.

erik_26
03-30-2012, 11:02 AM
I'm asking for help in filling it out properly, so I don't look like an idiot, or give them an opening for scrutiny.

Mr Blu,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it very unlikely you will actually get a LTC issued from the Sheriffs office of Santa Clara county.

Unless you are a personal friend of hers, a large contributor to her campaign, or have one heck of an original good cause, they don't get issued.

If you are a glutton for punishment or feel that you need to do your part and submit your application just as a personal goal, well then by all means go for it.

Just don't get your hopes up.

I know someone (I can't mention their name/job function), but they were denied and of all people, should be have an LTC.

Hopefully in a year or 5, things will change and we can all get a LTC.

heyjerr
03-30-2012, 12:16 PM
Any reason to believe the app in Santa Clara County has changed in last few years?

It's gotten older and more ignored?

Flopper
03-30-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm asking for help in filling it out properly, so I don't look like an idiot, or give them an opening for scrutiny.

Unless something has changed recently, she hasn't even been ACCEPTING LTC apps.

You won't get anywhere until something happens with the court case.

Mr Blu
03-30-2012, 12:50 PM
So.....instead of getting actual help on how to properly fill out a document that I have the right to submit for an LTC, all I got was negative feedback and, "DON'T DO IT! You won't get anywhere!" crap...?? Really??



Is this the kind of support I should expect from this community??


Unless you are a personal friend of hers, a large contributor to her campaign, or have one heck of an original good cause, they don't get issued.

If you are a glutton for punishment or feel that you need to do your part and submit your application just as a personal goal, well then by all means go for it.




To put it simply, WTF PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

ColdDeadHands1
03-30-2012, 1:03 PM
Settle down Mr Blu. We are all on your side. The difference is, we have all been wanting a SCC LTC from Sheriff Smith for quite some time now as well. The fact of the matter is that until we get movement on several court cases (Nordyke, Scocca, Richards, Peruta) there is pretty much 0% chance of you, me, or anyone else getting a LTC in Santa Clara County. We are just informing you of this fact.

Spend some time reading about these cases on the CGF website and you will see what I am talking about.

Check here:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/

also, the Mercury News published a list of current list of about 50 private citizen LTC holders in Santa Clara County. The list consisted of wealthy businessmen and individuals connected to Sheriff Smith. Are you of societal importance and wealth like these people? If not, my statements above to you are reinforced! (Edit: I tried to find the list but it appears that the Merc took it down)

Read this thread too:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7650317

ColdDeadHands1
03-30-2012, 1:10 PM
Also, if you are looking for help to fill out the document, go here. The CGF Sunshine Initiative has already spelled it out for you:

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative

blakdawg
03-30-2012, 5:35 PM
So.....instead of getting actual help on how to properly fill out a document that I have the right to submit for an LTC, all I got was negative feedback and, "DON'T DO IT! You won't get anywhere!" crap...?? Really??

Is this the kind of support I should expect from this community??

To put it simply, WTF PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

Oh, right, it's all about you.

As of September 2011, Santa Clara County had 1.3 million adult residents and the Santa Clara County Sheriff had issued 55 CCW's to people who aren't LEO's or judges.

You do the math. It'd probably be more productive to spend the application fees (if they'll even accept an application) on lottery tickets. Maybe you'll win enough money to move to a county that issues CCW's to ordinary people.

CGF already has active litigation against Santa Clara County over the CCW issue, with a plaintiff who was carefully selected to have good cause and a clean background. What more do you think they should be doing?

You have a right to fill out the paperwork to run for a Senate seat, too. Do you need help with that, as well?

Mr Blu
04-01-2012, 8:02 AM
Oh, right, it's all about you.

As of September 2011, Santa Clara County had 1.3 million adult residents and the Santa Clara County Sheriff had issued 55 CCW's to people who aren't LEO's or judges.

You do the math. It'd probably be more productive to spend the application fees (if they'll even accept an application) on lottery tickets. Maybe you'll win enough money to move to a county that issues CCW's to ordinary people.

CGF already has active litigation against Santa Clara County over the CCW issue, with a plaintiff who was carefully selected to have good cause and a clean background. What more do you think they should be doing?

You have a right to fill out the paperwork to run for a Senate seat, too. Do you need help with that, as well?


I asked for help. What I got was people saying "No. Don't do it."

I didn't ask if I SHOULD. I asked HOW. The statistics that you mentioned don't matter. It's the fact that I want to, have the ability to, and asked for help on how to do it.

Everyone has completely missed the point of what I was asking, and why I got pissed.

But if you really want to use your statistics, 55 people that aren't judges or LEO's, got theirs.

So apparently, it isn't a waste of time after all.

tabrisnet
04-01-2012, 8:10 AM
I asked for help. What I got was people saying "No. Don't do it."

I didn't ask if I SHOULD. I asked HOW. The statistics that you mentioned don't matter. It's the fact that I want to, have the ability to, and asked for help on how to do it.

Everyone has completely missed the point of what I was asking, and why I got pissed.

I think what is happening is that you are asking for how to fill out the form correctly.

What people are hearing is you want to fill it out successfully (such that you will succeed).

Thus what everyone is answering is "well, you can't do it successfully right now."

alfred1222
04-13-2012, 3:02 AM
I asked for help. What I got was people saying "No. Don't do it."

I didn't ask if I SHOULD. I asked HOW. The statistics that you mentioned don't matter. It's the fact that I want to, have the ability to, and asked for help on how to do it.

Everyone has completely missed the point of what I was asking, and why I got pissed.

But if you really want to use your statistics, 55 people that aren't judges or LEO's, got theirs.

So apparently, it isn't a waste of time after all.

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x428/eiden86/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
No offense, but people are trying to save you time and money, and you're acting like an ignorant child and shouting in their face because you dont like what they're saying. No one can tell you how to correctly fill out the forms, its specific to you. But it has been said over and over that if you are denied, it will be even more difficult to get a CCW if u decide to reapply. Thats why everyone is telling you to stop and wait until something changes and your chances of getting the permit go up. But than again, you probably wont listen and will still apply. Hopefully you'll be person 56 out of 1.3 million.

JeffW
04-13-2012, 12:09 PM
But it has been said over and over that if you are denied, it will be even more difficult to get a CCW if u decide to reapply.

Actually, I don't believe that a denial under the current system will have much, if any bearing on issuance under some future system, and in fact it could be helpful in that it may give him standing.

So I agree that it is unlikely to result in issuance, but I disagree that applying is actually harmful (aside from the cash aspect) in any way.

wildhawker
04-13-2012, 1:57 PM
Actually, I don't believe that a denial under the current system will have much, if any bearing on issuance under some future system, and in fact it could be helpful in that it may give him standing.

So I agree that it is unlikely to result in issuance, but I disagree that applying is actually harmful (aside from the cash aspect) in any way.

I join with Jeff's assessment.

-Brandon

Mr Blu
04-16-2012, 6:49 PM
So, applying won't be a complete waste of time, energy, and won't be a factor against me, should I get denied and reapply later???

natrab
04-16-2012, 7:03 PM
It'll just be a waste of money. Having just been denied in a neighboring county I'm not sorry I applied, but it was definitely a frustrating experience. I am still waiting to appeal.

Take the advice given and wait unless you have extraordinary cause. If you need help filling out the form, all the info you need is on the CGF website. Links were given to you above.

ColdDeadHands1
04-16-2012, 7:53 PM
Go ahead and submit. It won't hurt you later and we're all interested to see if they will even accept your application. My guess is they won't take it.

Let us know what happens.

ColdDeadHands1
04-16-2012, 7:53 PM
Go ahead and submit. It won't hurt you later and we're all interested to see if they will even accept your application. My guess is they won't take it.

Let us know what happens.

Mr Blu
04-17-2012, 10:40 AM
Go ahead and submit. It won't hurt you later and we're all interested to see if they will even accept your application. My guess is they won't take it.

Let us know what happens.

If I remember correctly, they actually can't deny a person from applying. They only deny by saying "NO".

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

ColdDeadHands1
04-17-2012, 12:44 PM
You are correct, they can't deny a person from applying....


The problem is, they are. If you had read some of the thread links I posted above you would have seen that is exactly what our Sheriff Smith's office is doing. You walk in with your application and they tell you they won't take it due to pending lawsuits.

So, please, go ahead and try. I for one want to see if they have changed that practice since the veiled threats from the CGF in the last Scocca hearing.

tabrisnet
04-17-2012, 10:15 PM
I can say this... there could be a run on their offices, if it gets out they're accepting apps [again]. Especially if they are issuing.

ColdDeadHands1
04-17-2012, 10:28 PM
Especially if they are issuing.

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/PigFly.gif

freonr22
04-17-2012, 10:34 PM
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x428/eiden86/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
No offense, but people are trying to save you time and money, and you're acting like an ignorant child and shouting in their face because you dont like what they're saying. No one can tell you how to correctly fill out the forms, its specific to you. But it has been said over and over that if you are denied, it will be even more difficult to get a CCW if u decide to reapply. Thats why everyone is telling you to stop and wait until something changes and your chances of getting the permit go up. But than again, you probably wont listen and will still apply. Hopefully you'll be person 56 out of 1.3 million.
It's not 56 out of 1.3m, because 1.3 m didn't apply.. How many applied?

tabrisnet
04-18-2012, 8:38 AM
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/PigFly.gif

I think I’ll donate a million dollars to the local orphanage…
When pigs fly!
http://simpsonsscreenshots.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/whenpigsfly.png?w=630&h=472
So, will you be donating that million dollars now Sir?

Mmm…no, I’d still prefer not to.

Spaceghost
04-25-2012, 10:24 AM
Mr Blu,

I own a check cashing business and travel with LOTS of cash. There are multiple crews actively robbing stores just like mine. One owner was murdered on the streets of Willow Glen, same bank I used to frequent. I was told to go F myself when I asked about a LTC. If you think you got a better good cause statement, go for it.

Let me warn you, you are in for an experience that will make you consider bashing your head into a wall with all the games they play if you apply.

ColdDeadHands1
05-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Hey Mr Blu, did you apply yet? I'd like to know how it went.

mmayer707
06-27-2012, 6:52 PM
Any idea when some of these lawsuits might go through? They have been pending forever. When is the next big date? Thanks.

tabrisnet
06-27-2012, 9:44 PM
Scocca was just dismissed, partly with prejudice, partly w/ leave to amend.

ajrisi
07-10-2012, 4:48 PM
With that case dismissed, maybe they will start accepting applications again. Not that they will actually approve any of them.

tabrisnet
07-10-2012, 5:27 PM
IIRC, there was a bill passed last year that said the SO must provide a written explanation (not detailed) why they are rejecting you.

This, combined with the court's complaint of a lack of standing, suggests we could use a small "fire drill", preferably with vetted applicants.

yes, per Gene, institutional standing is irrelevant... But assuming the expense were not too high, it appears to be a good idea. In my experience, half of winning an argument is in eliminating excuses.

unfortunately, I believe I cannot volunteer: I have a lack of unique need, and I may be moving out of state in 60-90 days.

ColdDeadHands1
07-10-2012, 7:41 PM
I actually have a unique and legitimate need (GC), at least in my opinion. I emailed this to Brandon last week and am hoping he has the time to look at it. I will be submitting this to Sheriff Smith soon but I was hoping to be of some use to the CGF in the meantime. A fire drill of vetted applicants sounds like a good idea. I'll go first...

mmayer707
07-12-2012, 2:12 PM
Are you going to apply CDH? If you do let us know how it goes.

POLICESTATE
07-12-2012, 2:20 PM
If I remember correctly, they actually can't deny a person from applying. They only deny by saying "NO".

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

You are right, however what the law says and what they do in practice are of course two different things.

I live in SCC and I won't bother applying, I don't have any GC statement other than "Self defense" and I already know with 100% certainty I will not get it.

I'm waiting for either the sheriff to change or for the sheriff to be forced into compliance by a new law or court order or something.

If you want to make a go of it, go for it, please let us know how it turns out.

ColdDeadHands1
07-12-2012, 2:22 PM
Are you going to apply CDH? If you do let us know how it goes.

I am. I was hoping to hear from Brandon first however.

I figure I would try to apply in person 1st and if they declined to accept my application I would then send via certified mail. Any thoughts on this?

mmayer707
07-12-2012, 2:35 PM
I am. I was hoping to hear from Brandon first however.

I figure I would try to apply in person 1st and if they declined to accept my application I would then send via certified mail. Any thoughts on this?

This would be a good idea. If you have record of sending the application to them via USPS and they send you a denial to apply or ignore the application I would say that is against the law and you have proof of their negligence. If enough of us had these denials or ignored applications we may be able to build a case. I would be willing to do the same, though the only GC I have is personal protection for me and my family.

mmayer707
07-24-2012, 5:11 PM
Anyone else wanna throw in their 2 cents?

ColdDeadHands1
07-24-2012, 5:33 PM
Yes, I will. I contacted the Sheriff's office and had a long conversation with the Public Information Officer, a sergeant in the department. He told me that they are not accepting CCW applications at the direction of county counsel. He said that due to pending lawsuits they are in the process of revising their procedures for CCW applications. They expect to complete this effort and resume accepting applications by the end of 2012.

I informed him that their refusal to accept my application and provide an approval or denial within 90 days was in violation of State law and that I have a legitimate GC and am at personal risk due to a situation outlined in my GC. He said sorry, this is not the Sheriff's decision and is the direction of County counsel.

I am going to send my application in via certified mail next and will see what happens.



Brandon, if you read this, I sent you an email last Friday 7/20. If you have the time, I would appreciate hearing back from you.

Spaceghost
08-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Good luck Colddeadhands, you're gunna need it. Keep us updated.

Damn True
08-14-2012, 11:08 AM
Scocca was just dismissed, partly with prejudice, partly w/ leave to amend.

http://vglounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Facepalm-1.jpeg

mmayer707
08-15-2012, 12:23 AM
So, did you send in the certified letter CDH? Inquiring minds want to know.........

Spaceghost
08-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Anyone else notice a pattern of people dropping in this thread saying they are going to do something then disappearing?

ColdDeadHands1
08-15-2012, 12:40 PM
Anyone else notice a pattern of people dropping in this thread saying they are going to do something then disappearing?

I haven't disappeared and I have done something. It is a long story and I'm not ready to tell it just yet. No significant action has happened yet but my application is submitted, sort of. I'll update within the next week or so when I have some new information.

By the way, don't get too excited. I don't think this is going anywhere positive anytime soon.

Damn True
08-26-2012, 11:23 PM
Next steps since the news on Scoca (sp?)?

kcbrown
08-26-2012, 11:43 PM
Next steps since the news on Scoca (sp?)?

Wait until SCOTUS rules on carry in public. Then wait until Richards is ruled on. Then wait until Sacramento-like "shall issue" (i.e., interminable delays, insistence on performing interviews, etc.) is litigated (all the way to SCOTUS, I'd wager). Then wait until arbitrary license restrictions are litigated (again, probably all the way to SCOTUS). There may be further issues that need litigation beyond that, depending on the ingenuity of the enemy (something I am determined to not underestimate).

In short, figure another 5 to 10 years, realistically.


Of course, some will call me a pessimist. Funny how things haven't proven me to be such so far...

Damn True
09-28-2012, 10:04 AM
Anything going on here?

ColdDeadHands1
09-28-2012, 10:11 AM
Long story short, I submitted my application and the Sheriff's dep't refused to accept it. I documented everything and sent it to the CGF. Waiting to hear what the next steps may be.

For more info, go to this thread and start reading at post 606.

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=412790

Damn True
10-09-2012, 3:06 PM
So is Scocca dead?

tabrisnet
10-09-2012, 3:36 PM
No.

thread for case:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=412790&page=13

last update i'm aware of:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=9346040&postcount=606

Robidouxs
11-24-2012, 2:46 PM
Bump, although I don't live in the county or state, any update to speak of?

Damn True
12-30-2012, 10:33 PM
Am I correct in assuming that local RTC issues are going to necessarily get back-burner'd to allow resources (time & money) for defense against potential State/National ban legislation?

NorCalAthlete
05-21-2013, 10:17 PM
Any updates for SCC?