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Gray Peterson
10-14-2010, 10:56 PM
Anyone who gets denied in San Francisco Co (either by the city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.

So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

creekside
10-18-2010, 2:37 PM
No policy for the City and County of SF?

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/sfsheriff.gif

Allegedly, a copy of the CCW policy can be found in the San Francisco Sheriff's Department Policy and Procedures Manual.

This is said to be available on CD from:

Sheriff’s Department Administration Division
Room 456
City Hall
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Street
San Francisco, CA, 94102

The San Francisco Police Department (city) may or may not have a CCW policy.

wildhawker
10-18-2010, 2:57 PM
Interestingly, SF *still* has no policy... yet. :43:

tonelar
10-18-2010, 3:02 PM
oh i like that you posted that word; "yet"

obeygiant
10-18-2010, 3:31 PM
oh i like that you posted that word; "yet"

county counsel and the sheriff sure don't like that word though. :43:

rips31
10-18-2010, 4:20 PM
it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?

i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."

Interestingly, SF *still* has no policy... yet. :43:

creekside
10-18-2010, 7:33 PM
it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?

i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."

This is exactly what this forum is for -- to help well qualified applicants jump the various 'hoops' placed in their way and exercise their legal right to apply for a CCW.

San Francisco will be a 'last bastion' for CCW permit applications. That does not mean that they should be let off the hook when it comes to the absolute requirement to comply with the law.

CCWFacts
10-19-2010, 1:24 AM
it's san francisco. they don't issue to us mere mortals, no?

Absolutely not. You need to be a prominent local politician (Sen. Feinstein), a DA, etc.

i'd love to apply for one. there's been a couple of muggings/beatings and shootings on my block to some of my neighbours, which makes me leery about things that go "bump in the night."

You're not going to get one until SF gets whomped on the head in the courts. They're so dumb they will need to be whomped repeatedly and painfully. They seem to enjoy paying legal fees to the NRA, a they did with their Proposition H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Proposition_H_%282005%29), which everyone knew would be thrown out in court, and yet SF still invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Remember how the 101st Airborne had to be sent in to Little Rock, AR to assist them in complying with a court ruling to desegregate their school? I'm sure there are supervisors (Chris Daly comes to mind) who would fight against CCW issuance for ordinary people to that degree.

SF is the only consolidated city / county (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_city%E2%80%93county) entity in California so it's in an unusual position WRT CCW issuance. SFPD and SF sheriff are both part of the same entity, even though they are separate bodies.

rips31
10-19-2010, 9:54 AM
absolutely correct. esseff is just a major pain in the okole when it comes to 2a. most of the current establishment/machine is against 2a. however, with k.harris running for ag, she'll not be too involved in local politics after she gets out. c.daly is termed-out. the biggest hurdle is sheriff hennessy, who won't issue. we probably have some other lefty stupidvisors that are anti, but the hope is that there are cooler heads that may realize that a prolonged fight under the current 2a-climate is a bad idea.

Absolutely not. You need to be a prominent local politician (Sen. Feinstein), a DA, etc.

You're not going to get one until SF gets whomped on the head in the courts. They're so dumb they will need to be whomped repeatedly and painfully. They seem to enjoy paying legal fees to the NRA, a they did with their Proposition H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Proposition_H_%282005%29), which everyone knew would be thrown out in court, and yet SF still invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Remember how the 101st Airborne had to be sent in to Little Rock, AR to assist them in complying with a court ruling to desegregate their school? I'm sure there are supervisors (Chris Daly comes to mind) who would fight against CCW issuance for ordinary people to that degree.

SF is the only consolidated city / county (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_city%E2%80%93county) entity in California so it's in an unusual position WRT CCW issuance. SFPD and SF sheriff are both part of the same entity, even though they are separate bodies.

Jack_Bauer
10-19-2010, 3:58 PM
absolutely correct. esseff is just a major pain in the okole when it comes to 2a. most of the current establishment/machine is against 2a. however, with k.harris running for ag, she'll not be too involved in local politics after she gets out. c.daly is termed-out. the biggest hurdle is sheriff hennessy, who won't issue. we probably have some other lefty stupidvisors that are anti, but the hope is that there are cooler heads that may realize that a prolonged fight under the current 2a-climate is a bad idea.

Eric Mar, or Daly Jr., is still elected so Daly's technically not termed out, he just carries his policies through Mar.

wildhawker
10-21-2010, 1:23 AM
I have posted SF's approved good cause. That's singular since there is only 1.

We'll have more on that later; for now, if you have a good cause which is similar in nature to the approved GC statement, please email us at ccw@calgunsfoundation.org.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/126-san-francisco

CCWFacts
10-21-2010, 6:12 AM
I have posted SF's approved good cause. That's singular since there is only 1.

Wow, I read it, and it's nothing too unusual. A deputy is facing termination and focuses on applicant. Well, a lot of people get angry if they are fired, and focus their anger on someone they think is responsible (a boss etc). In fact this is probably a major factor in workplace violence. So probably quite a few people in SF would be able to use that as a GC. Really anyone who is a boss and has to fire employees occasionally.

trashman
10-23-2010, 3:23 PM
Wow, I read it, and it's nothing too unusual. A deputy is facing termination and focuses on applicant. Well, a lot of people get angry if they are fired, and focus their anger on someone they think is responsible (a boss etc). In fact this is probably a major factor in workplace violence. So probably quite a few people in SF would be able to use that as a GC. Really anyone who is a boss and has to fire employees occasionally.

Well the first thing that jumped to mind was that it was a the Deputy's supervisor -- but wait -- wouldn't that person BE a(n) LEO and already have the legal ability to CCW while off-duty?

So what it suggests is that the CCW holder is *not* a LEO, and either

1) a civilian employee of the department who, somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal, or

2) a civilian who isn't an employee of the department and is somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal.

Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....

--Neill

safewaysecurity
10-23-2010, 3:33 PM
Why is there only 1 good caue statement? I thought they've issued about 20 CCWs or something like that in about 30 years...

CCWFacts
10-24-2010, 2:08 PM
Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....

Clearly. It must have been a non-sworn sheriffs dept employee. So... that means that any employer in SF who dismisses an employee who is known to be armed and who makes threats should be similarly situated and should get a CCW. Most company owners, or anyone who has been through some firings, has received threats and angry reactions, so this good cause would apply to a lot of biz owners in SF.

wildhawker
10-24-2010, 5:22 PM
It's not potentially insider-y, it is as insider-y as it gets.

I will be emailing the SF volunteers soon...

-Brandon

Well the first thing that jumped to mind was that it was a the Deputy's supervisor -- but wait -- wouldn't that person BE a(n) LEO and already have the legal ability to CCW while off-duty?

So what it suggests is that the CCW holder is *not* a LEO, and either

1) a civilian employee of the department who, somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal, or

2) a civilian who isn't an employee of the department and is somehow involved in the Deputy's dismissal.

Either way, this has the potential to be real insider-y.....

--Neill

trashman
10-24-2010, 5:53 PM
It's not potentially insider-y, it is as insider-y as it gets.


Yeah! I can't wait.

--Neill

rips31
10-25-2010, 10:40 AM
can't wait!

I will be emailing the SF volunteers soon...

rips31
10-25-2010, 10:41 AM
yea, but at least mar is less of a hot-head. then again, he's still out there, altho if the worst he can do is happy meal toys, he's more like daly-lite.

Eric Mar, or Daly Jr., is still elected so Daly's technically not termed out, he just carries his policies through Mar.

Kid Stanislaus
10-25-2010, 2:15 PM
As far as CCW is concerned San Fran. is the FERGIDDIT! county!

creekside
10-25-2010, 2:48 PM
As far as CCW is concerned San Fran. is the FERGIDDIT! county!

I prefer to think of it as the Gold Rush county. If there's one county in the state where one can count on having one's Constitutional rights thoroughly violated, expensively and at length, it'd be SF.

Due process? What's that? This is Sparta San Francisco!

I wonder if LCAV will donate their legal services pro bono to defend the endless wave of CCW litigation from qualified San Francisco residents?

paul0660
10-25-2010, 2:56 PM
It would be wonderful to have Hennesey toe the line on this. He is such a pusillanimous lackey for the leftist aristocrats that run the city.

rips31
10-25-2010, 3:10 PM
i think henney will be one of the hold-outs. we're gonna have to wiese both him and esseff. he/they will go down, kicking and screaming until the bitter end.

MidnightSon117
10-27-2010, 1:46 AM
I'm glad CGF is taking SF to task for this. Good info, wildhawker!

robbsf75
10-27-2010, 9:15 AM
How many people have applied and have been denied?
Or do people simply not apply because they know the answer...

rrr70
10-27-2010, 9:23 AM
Tagged.

Gray Peterson
10-27-2010, 9:25 AM
How many people have applied and have been denied?
Or do people simply not apply because they know the answer...

The latter.

robbsf75
10-27-2010, 10:14 AM
I remember there was an article in one of the papers when Chief Fong was still around that said she was responsible for issuing ccws. Does the SFPD have a policy for issuing ccws?

rips31
10-27-2010, 12:59 PM
sfs henney has pretty much said that he won't ever grant a ccw. thus, it falls to the sfpd/cop. but i don't think that cop will issue to non-politicians/judges. cop is appointed, so they don't have to worry about political donors like sfs does.

Gray Peterson
10-27-2010, 1:28 PM
sfs henney has pretty much said that he won't ever grant a ccw. thus, it falls to the sfpd/cop. but i don't think that cop will issue to non-politicians/judges. cop is appointed, so they don't have to worry about political donors like sfs does.

But...he did grant a CCW to someone. Remember, "insidery as it gets" means something.

rips31
10-27-2010, 3:35 PM
yep, hence my 'pretty much' disclaimer.

how does the 'insidery' part help us ordinary citizens, since none of us can claim the same 'good' cause. guess we can't exactly cry discrimination, since that cause was so specific. then again, if youse all have something up that sleeve, i wouldn't mind at all. :)

oh, well...like i said, esseff will be kicking and screaming until the end.

But...he did grant a CCW to someone. Remember, "insidery as it gets" means something.

sfpcservice
10-29-2010, 2:16 PM
If this person is a politician, can their name be posted?

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 2:54 PM
If this person is a politician, can their name be posted?

As morally corrupt as this particular situation is, we will not "out" any CCW holder or applicant. We made a public commitment to preserve the privacy of the applicants whose information we requested as part of this investigation, and are firmly committed to maintaining it.

Our goal is to make carry permits accessible to all, not produce a "gotcha" journalism piece.

N6ATF
10-29-2010, 5:32 PM
What if that holder is Juliet Leftwich or Paul Helmke? Or can you at least give us a hint? "A major victim disarmament proponent himself/herself hypocritically refuses to be a victim."

trashman
10-29-2010, 6:08 PM
As morally corrupt as this particular situation is, we will not "out" any CCW holder or applicant. We made a public commitment to preserve the privacy of the applicants whose information we requested as part of this investigation, and are firmly committed to maintaining it.

Our goal is to make carry permits accessible to all, not produce a "gotcha" journalism piece.

And that is the right approach and right goal, even though it reduces a little bit of PR leverage.

Your description just makes me want to know who it is even more, though :)

Looking forward to storming the gates --

--Neill

Gray Peterson
10-29-2010, 6:11 PM
What if that holder is Juliet Leftwich or Paul Helmke? Or can you at least give us a hint? "A major victim disarmament proponent himself/herself hypocritically refuses to be a victim."

Helmke doesn't live in California, so no. Leftwich, I don't know where she lives. Who cares?

The good cause will be available soon enough.

-Gray

rrr70
10-29-2010, 8:14 PM
The good cause will be available soon enough.

-Gray

But I want it NOW :D

wildhawker
10-29-2010, 9:20 PM
But I want it NOW :D

It's already posted here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/126-san-francisco).

leitung
10-30-2010, 1:53 PM
PDF Does not work for me, I attempt to open it and all I get is a blank page..

safewaysecurity
10-30-2010, 1:58 PM
That's only 1 good cause statement

obeygiant
10-30-2010, 2:41 PM
PDF Does not work for me, I attempt to open it and all I get is a blank page..
For the PDF challenged:
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/622/sfgc580x749.th.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/sfgc580x749.jpg/)

Gray Peterson
10-30-2010, 2:53 PM
That's only 1 good cause statement

There's only one permit issue from the San Francisco Sheriff's Office.

sfpcservice
10-30-2010, 3:04 PM
How in the world can they issue without a policy? More importantly....How can they DENY once they issued without a policy???


What about SFPD? Any permits issued by them?

Gray Peterson
10-30-2010, 3:26 PM
How in the world can they issue without a policy? More importantly....How can they DENY once they issued without a policy???


What about SFPD? Any permits issued by them?

SFPD is a personal project city of mine. Two licenses issued. One to a civilian (that they don't have records for for some reason, lost in a desk drawer), one is to a judge (a three year license). Another judge had no good cause at all, but unfortunately he is not with us anymore (passed on in 2008).

sfpcservice
10-30-2010, 5:03 PM
SFPD is a personal project city of mine. Two licenses issued. One to a civilian (that they don't have records for for some reason, lost in a desk drawer), one is to a judge (a three year license). Another judge had no good cause at all, but unfortunately he is not with us anymore (passed on in 2008).

Well I'm sure SFPD will have their hands full with you. You probably already know this, but just in case; the city has a "sunshine ordinance" which is similar to the PRA. I'm not sure how they differ, but apparently you can request city records under this ordinance as well.

Gray Peterson
10-30-2010, 5:23 PM
Well I'm sure SFPD will have their hands full with you. You probably already know this, but just in case; the city has a "sunshine ordinance" which is similar to the PRA. I'm not sure how they differ, but apparently you can request city records under this ordinance as well.

I'm VERY aware of the Sunshine Ordinance and yes I have the records (or at least some of them).

rips31
11-01-2010, 11:18 AM
i'd think that esseff would be one of your special cases, gray, as it's both a city and a county unto itself. that alone has all sorts of strange complexities, considering the elected sheriff is no-issue and the appointed cop takes a pass.

thanks!

SFPD is a personal project city of mine. Two licenses issued. One to a civilian (that they don't have records for for some reason, lost in a desk drawer), one is to a judge (a three year license). Another judge had no good cause at all, but unfortunately he is not with us anymore (passed on in 2008).

safewaysecurity
11-01-2010, 11:32 AM
I thought SF has issued around 20 CCWs within the last 20 years

Joe
11-01-2010, 11:35 AM
I thought SF has issued around 20 CCWs within the last 20 years

That may be so. But CCW's need to be renewed. So its possible ones from 2-20 years ago were never renewed.

stix213
11-18-2010, 4:07 PM
Are we only able to get GC statements from currently active CCW's, but not from ones that were previously issued then allowed to expire?

wildhawker
11-18-2010, 4:18 PM
Are we only able to get GC statements from currently active CCW's, but not from ones that were previously issued then allowed to expire?

Generally public agencies can destroy documents after some period of time in accordance with statutory restrictions on record maintenance.

LazyBoy
12-14-2010, 12:31 PM
We need more CCW permit holders in SF that is why I sponsored SF.

sfbadger
12-14-2010, 1:01 PM
We need more CCW permit holders in SF....

That's definitely an understatement!

Kid Stanislaus
12-15-2010, 12:49 AM
We need more CCW permit holders in SF that is why I sponsored SF.

We also need more rainfall in Death Valley, which of the two do you suppose will happen first?:kest:

wildhawker
12-15-2010, 11:07 AM
We also need more rainfall in Death Valley, which of the two do you suppose will happen first?:kest:

I'm betting SF.

Kid Stanislaus
12-15-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm betting SF.

I'm hope'n you're right.

rrr70
02-11-2011, 6:32 AM
Any updates?

cb006
02-18-2011, 3:02 PM
Hennessey announced today that he will retire at the end of his term after 31 years on the job, so maybe some hope on the horizon! (Hey, it worked for Sac!)

Full story here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=83407&tsp=1

QuarterBoreGunner
02-18-2011, 3:08 PM
Hennessey announced today that he will retire at the end of his term after 31 years on the job, so maybe some hope on the horizon! (Hey, it worked for Sac!)

Full story here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=83407&tsp=1

Hey Egypt threw out Mubarak after 30 years... maybe he saw the writing on the walls.

cb006
02-18-2011, 3:21 PM
Hey Egypt threw out Mubarak after 30 years... maybe he saw the writing on the walls.

That, or probably getting out before pension reforms start gaining traction around here. Even the locals are getting riled up about that!

trashman
02-18-2011, 5:54 PM
That, or probably getting out before pension reforms start gaining traction around here. Even the locals are getting riled up about that!

Pffft. Too late for that.

I can't put my hands on the exact number, but I believe the Sheriff will likely retire on a "3% @ 50" plan, which pays him 100% of his highest pay after 30 years in service. So he'll pull down ~$200,000 or so in retirement...

Good [fiscally-unsustainable with my tax dollars] work if you can get it...

--Neill

Kid Stanislaus
02-20-2011, 5:19 AM
I can't put my hands on the exact number, but I believe the Sheriff will likely retire on a "3% @ 50" plan, which pays him 100% of his highest pay after 30 years in service. So he'll pull down ~$200,000 or so in retirement... --Neill

HEY C'MON! The guy is a PUBLIC SERVANT!! (Snicker, snort!):rolleyes:

N6ATF
02-20-2011, 11:21 AM
More like a Criminal Servant... seeing as how he kept all the victims disarmed for his fellow criminals.

rips31
02-22-2011, 10:38 AM
his city-retirement caps-out at 90% of his highest year's pay (3% x 30yr @ age 60, or something). however, he missed the boat, as he could have gotten 1040hr of his sick leave paid to him if he retired before 01jul2010. that would have bumped his pay/pension even higher.

it's expected that ross mirkarimi will run for sheriff. he's not much different than a daly/hennessey hybrid. city voters seem to love him, so my guess is that he'll win. i don't think he has any leo experience, unless you count that he graduated from the SFPD Academy.

hopefully the deputy that last ran against hennessey will run again and have a good showing. or anyone else that respects 2a.

ugh...this is from his website:

Issues

* Public Safety

As Supervisor, Ross has been a fearless advocate for public safety by supporting:
o Community policing, including increased foot patrols and violence prevention programs;
o Gun-fire detecting sensors installed in Western Addition;
o Crime-fighting security cameras installed and monitored for privacy concerns;
o Programs designed to rehabilitate and prevent re-entry of prisoners and youth offenders;
o Passage of the toughest, most restrictive laws on firearms in the country;


http://www.rossmirkarimi.com/Table/Issues/

:puke:

Pffft. Too late for that.

I can't put my hands on the exact number, but I believe the Sheriff will likely retire on a "3% @ 50" plan, which pays him 100% of his highest pay after 30 years in service. So he'll pull down ~$200,000 or so in retirement...

Good [fiscally-unsustainable with my tax dollars] work if you can get it...

--Neill

cb006
04-22-2011, 2:22 PM
Looks like Mirkarimi won't be running unopposed next year. SFPD Officer Michael Evans (http://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-evans/michael-evans-for-sheriff-2011/10150235087070169?notif_t=note_reply) has thrown his hat into the ring.

I don't know what his chances are against the established ruling class in SF, but he seems just a tad more qualified than Mr. Mirkarimi.

I wonder what his stance is on CCW?

For those of you without Facebook:
Michael Evans, a longtime resident of the San Francisco Bay Area, seeks election to the office of Sheriff in 2011

In December of 2000 Michael Evans began a career in Law Enforcement. Like many people in Law Enforcement Michael began his career in the U.S. Coast Guard 2000-2005. His time in the Coast Guard was spent conducting search and rescue operations in the Bering Sea and narcotics enforcement in the South Pacific Ocean. Michael also served during Operation Iraqi Freedom in the Persian Gulf and Operation Enduring Freedom. During Michael’s time in the U.S. Coast Guard Michael worked his way through the ranks to become an Operations Specialist 2nd Class. Michael attained a top secret security clearance. Michael also received numerous awards the Iraq Campaign Medal, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Commandant’s Letter of Commendation, Coast Guard Good Conduct Medal, Coast Guard Meritorious Team Commendation, Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation, National Defense Service Medal, and a Navy Commendation Award.

Michael joined the San Francisco Police Department in 2007. During his time in the department he has served at Mission Station, Taraval Station, and is now serving at Northern Station. During Michael’s time in the San Francisco Police Department he has received numerous Captains’ Commendations.

Michael was born in Dothan Alabama. Michael has a twin brother who is a police officer in Alabama, and a sister who also works for city Government in Alabama. Michael has received an associate’s degree from American Intercontinental University, where he graduated with honors.

Michael serves on the Board of Directors for the SFPD Pride Alliance, which represents the LGBT Police Officers within the SFPD. Michael is also serving on the Board of Directors for Protect and Defend (PAD), a non-profit organization which represents LGBT members of the military, police, fire, and EMS around the world.

Michael enjoys working in Law Enforcement and helping people within the community, traveling, and spending time with his family.

Kid Stanislaus
04-22-2011, 3:28 PM
We need more CCW permit holders in SF that is why I sponsored SF.

Yeah, and Death Valley needs more rain!!:D

sfpcservice
04-22-2011, 3:32 PM
Any movement here?

robbsf75
04-23-2011, 8:42 AM
Looks like Mirkarimi won't be running unopposed next year. SFPD Officer Michael Evans (http://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-evans/michael-evans-for-sheriff-2011/10150235087070169?notif_t=note_reply) has thrown his hat into the ring.

I don't know what his chances are against the established ruling class in SF, but he seems just a tad more qualified than Mr. Mirkarimi.

I wonder what his stance is on CCW?

For those of you without Facebook:
He is pro ccw

robbsf75
04-23-2011, 8:45 AM
Yes, Mike supports CCWs...

rips31
04-26-2011, 12:00 PM
thank heavens there's some competition. however, i think that this evans-fella needs a lot more exposure and help.

Looks like Mirkarimi won't be running unopposed next year. SFPD Officer Michael Evans (http://www.facebook.com/notes/michael-evans/michael-evans-for-sheriff-2011/10150235087070169?notif_t=note_reply) has thrown his hat into the ring.

I don't know what his chances are against the established ruling class in SF, but he seems just a tad more qualified than Mr. Mirkarimi.

I wonder what his stance is on CCW?

For those of you without Facebook:

rips31
05-03-2011, 3:45 PM
ugh...it's going to be an uphill battle for michael evans.

http://www.kron4.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=948

San Francisco Sheriff Mike Hennessey, who announced earlier this year that he will step down after 31 years of service, is endorsing Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi for sheriff.

(Mirkarimi said) “I am extremely grateful for the support of Sheriff Hennessey. As a husband and father, my commitment to San Francisco will be to always put the safety of our city first. And, I will do my best to continue the independent, innovative policies that have helped San Francisco lead the way in reforming criminal justice and seeking new solutions to our society’s most entrenched and difficult problems.”

after the nordyke decision, sf may not be getting ccw for a long time.

wildhawker
05-13-2011, 10:22 AM
San Francisco Residents,

I need at least one adult over the age of 21 with a clean (read: no criminal) history and exemplary "moral character" to go physically to the San Francisco Sheriff's Dept. office and request a copy of their Carry License policy and all application forms ASAP.

San Francisco Sheriff's Dept.
City Hall, Room 456
1 Carlton Goodlett Place
San Francisco, CA 94102
(415) 554-7225 phone

Anyone that goes to the Sheriff's Dept. should be well-groomed, dressed appropriately to represent a positive image, and comfortable answering any adversarial questions they might pose (e.g. "Why do you need a CCW?", "What makes you think you should be able to carry a gun?"). Please do not represent that this is for any other purpose other than to make an attempt to apply for a carry license.

I'm closing the window for this as of 5/18 unless no one has been able to make it to the Department by then. Once this is complete, please email (mailto: bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org) me directly with a brief rundown of the events, a scanned copy of the documents acquired, and your contact information.

Let's also please keep the speculation and signal-to-noise ratio down in this thread.

Thanks,

-Brandon

sfbadger
05-13-2011, 11:07 AM
PM sent to wildhawker.

Window_Seat
05-13-2011, 12:22 PM
Brandon, you have mail!

Erik.

safewaysecurity
05-13-2011, 12:42 PM
My dad is friends with Mirkarimi and told me he wants to hold a fundraiser for him just because they are friends even though his policies are disgusting. I might take him to the range or something see if I can't change his mind on CCW XD.

JeremyS
05-24-2011, 10:13 PM
Yes, Mike supports CCWs...
He's got my vote.



Brandon, or anyone else, PM me any time if you need something done in San Francisco. I moved from WA to CA in 2001, and lament the fact that I can't get a CCW in this county. I may apply for one in the next week or two, just because...


Jeremy

wildhawker
05-25-2011, 12:55 AM
Jeremy, if you can apply this week, please pm me your name, email, and phone.

safewaysecurity
05-25-2011, 1:08 AM
oh boy! I smella somethinga coookeen upa!

wildhawker
05-25-2011, 1:46 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-snH996Fjiio/TWPX56G7UHI/AAAAAAAABTY/_zNqROBqfjo/s1600/Spock_3D_chess.jpg

QuarterBoreGunner
05-25-2011, 7:19 AM
Awesome analogy.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-snH996Fjiio/TWPX56G7UHI/AAAAAAAABTY/_zNqROBqfjo/s1600/Spock_3D_chess.jpg

sfbadger
05-25-2011, 11:12 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-snH996Fjiio/TWPX56G7UHI/AAAAAAAABTY/_zNqROBqfjo/s1600/Spock_3D_chess.jpg


Probably just as complicated, too. I could never understand that 3D Chess! ;)

rips31
05-25-2011, 1:59 PM
this is gonna be good...

is it open to all, or just specific ppl? :popcorn:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-snH996Fjiio/TWPX56G7UHI/AAAAAAAABTY/_zNqROBqfjo/s1600/Spock_3D_chess.jpg

Joe
05-25-2011, 5:02 PM
You guys are nerds :P

Python2
06-02-2011, 9:17 AM
Jeremy, if you can apply this week, please pm me your name, email, and phone.

I read in another thread that SFBadger applied few days ago. Good luck to you Mike.

wildhawker
06-02-2011, 3:18 PM
:whistling:

CGF DEMANDS SAN FRANCISCO SHERIFF MICHAEL HENNESSEY FOLLOW LAWS, CONSTITUTION

San Carlos, CA (June 2, 2011) - As part of its ongoing Carry License Compliance and Sunshine Initiative, The Calguns Foundation sent San Francisco County Sheriff Michael Hennessey a letter demanding that he immediately bring his firearm carry license application acceptance, processing, and evaluation policies into compliance with the law.

In the letter sent Tuesday, Calguns notes that the Sheriff has failed to comply with state law for nearly thirteen years, even after being notified of the deficiency on a number of prior occasions. Calguns also claims that the policies of the Sheriff in issuing licenses to some, including one of his employees, while refusing to accept all applications from “regular” San Francisco residents violates applicants’ constitutional rights of self-defense and equal protection under the law.

“While the Sheriff may have grown accustomed to following only those laws he chooses, we intend to hold the County’s highest law enforcement officer to the same laws he took an oath to uphold,” notes Gene Hoffman, Chairman of The Calguns Foundation. “The rights of San Francisco residents are no less valuable than those of his employees and friends.”

In 1998, then-Assemblymember Rod Wright authored a bill to make firearm carry permit applications consistent across the state due to tremendous variations in local practices by licensing authorities. That bill, AB 2022, established a mandate that all licensing authorities create and publish a written policy on carry license applications by April 1, 1999. It also instituted a specific process that licensing authorities - county sheriffs and city chiefs of police - must use in receiving and processing applications.

“We’ve spent thousands of hours requesting and reviewing the policies and practices of hundreds of law enforcement agencies across the state. Sheriff Hennessey’s, obviously, stood out – it simply didn’t exist,” said Brandon Combs, member of the Board of Directors of Calguns Foundation. “It’s exceedingly frustrating to see the Sheriff turning away so many qualified San Francisco residents who are complying with the law.”

In an effort to avoid litigation, Calguns provided Sheriff Hennessey with a comprehensive model carry license policy. “We would strongly prefer that the Sheriff simply choose to use our model policy, much as San Francisco has done with LCAV policies in the past,” Brandon Combs said. “However, should he choose to go another direction, we’re prepared to litigate as necessary to bring his policies and practices in line with the law.”

###

A downloadable copy of the model policy is available at this link (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/25-ccwpolicy.html). CGF's letter to Sheriff Hennessey is located here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/26-sfcarrypolicydemand.html).

More information on Calguns Foundation’s Carry License Compliance and Sunshine Initiative can be found at www.gotcarry.org. For more information on other Second Amendment-related litigation and educational efforts, please visit www.calgunsfoundation.org.

trashman
06-02-2011, 4:13 PM
yeah!!!

ETA: what was with the fax-bomb? ;)

wizdumb
06-02-2011, 4:49 PM
Will additional applications help the cause? I wouldn't mind applying in SF (as long as the sheriff's office doesn't retaliate somehow).

sfbadger
06-02-2011, 5:46 PM
Will additional applications help the cause? I wouldn't mind applying in SF (as long as the sheriff's office doesn't retaliate somehow).

There's no reason for the Sheriff's Office to retaliate. It's your initial $20 fee, if you are denied you will lose your $20, end of story.

You should definitely apply if you KNOW you have a clean enough history and can survive a fairly thorough background check. PM one of the smarter folks around here, (they pretty much stand right out). Give an HONEST assessment of your history and see what they say?

wizdumb
06-02-2011, 5:55 PM
There's no reason for the Sheriff's Office to retaliate. It's your initial $20 fee, if you are denied you will lose your $20, end of story.

You should definitely apply if you KNOW you have a clean enough history and can survive a fairly thorough background check. PM one of the smarter folks around here, (they pretty much stand right out). Give an HONEST assessment of your history and see what they say?

A few minor traffic violations aside, my legal/mental "history" are non-existant (in other words, spotless).

Is the highly probable denial-for-no-good-reason of my CCW application going to be valuable for CGF in this legal battle? Is that why I "definitely" should apply?

sfbadger
06-02-2011, 6:16 PM
A few minor traffic violations aside, my legal/mental "history" are non-existant (in other words, spotless).

Is the highly probable denial-for-no-good-reason of my CCW application going to be valuable for CGF in this legal battle? Is that why I "definitely" should apply?

You should probably contact someone affiliated with CGF to get the answer to that.

wildhawker
06-02-2011, 6:23 PM
ETA: what was with the fax-bomb? ;)

Jim Harrigan said they didn't receive certain items. I sent them proof, via fax, because he didn't want to communicate via email and insisted on documentable dialogue.

I also submitted a SF Sunshine Ordinance complaint against him.

I wonder why he didn't want to release the records...

-Brandon
100714

wizdumb
06-02-2011, 7:17 PM
@wildhawker Any advice regarding my application for CCW? (see above posts) Would it help to send the application documents via USPS certified mail for additional evidence, if needed?

wildhawker
06-02-2011, 7:20 PM
@wildhawker Any advice regarding my application for CCW? (see above posts) Would it help to send the application documents via USPS certified mail for additional evidence, if needed?

Send me your contact info and I'll send you specific instructions.

-Brandon
bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org

trashman
06-02-2011, 7:53 PM
Jim Harrigan lied and said they didn't receive certain items. I sent them proof, via fax, because he didn't want to communicate via email and insisted on documentable dialogue.

I also submitted a SF Sunshine Ordinance complaint against him.


I did note in the CGF letter that he indicated "no written policy exists because it is well known no permits are given so there are no applicants".....so much for that!:43:

I love to see you are really holding their feet to the fire on this!!!

--Neill

wildhawker
06-02-2011, 8:01 PM
I did note in the CGF letter that he indicated "no written policy exists because it is well known no permits are given so there are no applicants".....so much for that!:43:

--Neill

"We, eh, don't have a policy and don't issue permits. (Except mine.)"

Oops!

wizdumb
06-24-2011, 12:06 AM
My application has been submitted to the SF Sheriff and my Return Receipt has come back. Just waiting for the response.

Kid Stanislaus
06-24-2011, 4:50 AM
My application has been submitted to the SF Sheriff and my Return Receipt has come back. Just waiting for the response.

In a way I'm hope'n they follow their normal path and deny, otherwise a major earthquake is sure to follow!!:D

wizdumb
06-25-2011, 12:55 PM
In a way I'm hope'n they follow their normal path and deny, otherwise a major earthquake is sure to follow!!:D

Really? It seems like it would be ideal if they just changed their minds and started issuing. I'd actually prefer that instead of needing to rub their noses in it through the court system, they might actually have learned something without being forced.

rrr70
06-25-2011, 1:23 PM
Really? It seems like it would be ideal if they just changed their minds and started issuing. I'd actually prefer that instead of needing to rub their noses in it through the court system, they might actually have learned something without being forced.


AMEN!

Purple K
07-06-2011, 11:29 AM
Oh ya!

wizdumb
07-14-2011, 5:04 PM
Based on my meeting with them, they do seem to have a written policy now.
Just waiting to hear back from CGF on how to proceed.

wildhawker
07-14-2011, 5:22 PM
Based on my meeting with them, they do seem to have a written policy now.
Just waiting to hear back from CGF on how to proceed.

Have a few other matters to wrap up; we're still on this.

Kid Stanislaus
07-14-2011, 6:25 PM
Have a few other matters to wrap up; we're still on this.

Yeah, like a pit bull is on a beef steak!!:D

Paladin
08-15-2011, 5:23 PM
:whistling:

CGF DEMANDS SAN FRANCISCO SHERIFF MICHAEL HENNESSEY FOLLOW LAWS, CONSTITUTION

San Carlos, CA (June 2, 2011) - As part of its ongoing Carry License Compliance and Sunshine Initiative, The Calguns Foundation sent San Francisco County Sheriff Michael Hennessey a letter demanding that he immediately bring his firearm carry license application acceptance, processing, and evaluation policies into compliance with the law.

. . . .

In an effort to avoid litigation, Calguns provided Sheriff Hennessey with a comprehensive model carry license policy. “We would strongly prefer that the Sheriff simply choose to use our model policy, much as San Francisco has done with LCAV policies in the past,” Brandon Combs said. “However, should he choose to go another direction, we’re prepared to litigate as necessary to bring his policies and practices in line with the law.” Any news???

Nothing new on their website: http://www.sfsheriff.com/home.htm

sfbadger
08-15-2011, 5:49 PM
Any news???

Nothing new on their website: http://www.sfsheriff.com/home.htm

Well, as long as S.F.'s policy of charging exorbitant amounts is allowed to continue, they have effectively priced everyone out of their rights!

trashman
09-07-2011, 6:10 PM
So I came home today to find a polite, and uh, somewhat feisty denial letter from our good Sheriff awaiting me with some interesting guidance. He at least *read* my application, I'll say that...

Anybody else have one to share? Does CGF need/want copies (and any further action) of these?

--Neill

sfbadger
09-07-2011, 6:24 PM
So I came home today to find a polite, and uh, somewhat feisty denial letter from our good Sheriff awaiting me with some interesting guidance. He at least *read* my application, I'll say that...

Anybody else have one to share? Does CGF need/want copies (and any further action) of these?

--Neill

I told the Sr. Deputy that I found some serious flaws in SF's CCW Policy and as soon as those issues, namely the fees, were brought into line with the rest of the state, I would re-apply. He sent me back my $20 check!

Gray Peterson
09-07-2011, 7:24 PM
So I came home today to find a polite, and uh, somewhat feisty denial letter from our good Sheriff awaiting me with some interesting guidance. He at least *read* my application, I'll say that...

Anybody else have one to share? Does CGF need/want copies (and any further action) of these?

--Neill

Send me an email. I will review it and forward it to the team.

trashman
09-07-2011, 7:50 PM
Send me an email. I will review it and forward it to the team.

You have email inbound...

cheers,
--Neill

wizdumb
09-07-2011, 7:56 PM
I'm still getting calls from the Sr. Deputy about my application, but I haven't gotten an update from CGF with how to proceed.

Gray Peterson
09-07-2011, 8:35 PM
I'm still getting calls from the Sr. Deputy about my application, but I haven't gotten an update from CGF with how to proceed.

Please email ccw (yes, we know) AT calgunsfoundation.org

-Gray

wizdumb
09-07-2011, 10:53 PM
Done. Thanks for the recommendation, Gray!

bignev
09-14-2011, 7:13 AM
where can i find the forms and or list of documents required to process an application for CCW in SF a resident . thanks

sfpcservice
12-12-2011, 10:01 AM
Any news of SF?

yosho
01-13-2012, 10:39 PM
Bump!

With the new year, has any progress been made in SF for CCW?

sfbadger
01-14-2012, 8:59 AM
Haven't heard a peep since getting SF in line with the initial application process.

HowardW56
02-18-2012, 11:39 AM
SF's CCW Policy, Good Cause statement, Guidelines and Forms can be found here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/126-san-francisco).

wizdumb
03-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Not sure what progress has been made lately, but when I applied last year they seemed to have some pretty ridiculous requirements for SF residents. Has anyone heard if anything has or will change with the new Sheriff?

rips31
03-07-2012, 12:26 PM
business as-usual. mirkarimi is more anti- than hennessey, hypocrisy be damned.

wizdumb
03-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Perhaps we'll get lucky and he'll step down for the current legal controversy.

SFgiants105
03-07-2012, 12:41 PM
business as-usual. mirkarimi is more anti- than hennessey, hypocrisy be damned.

lol

Radambe
05-27-2012, 6:59 PM
Does anyone have any new info on SF? With the interim sheriff in place (one with an actual background in law enforcement, lol), I'm wondering if anyone has applied recently or any new experiences to report.

BlairB
05-29-2012, 11:06 PM
New to the forum and also very interested as to if there are any updates!

CapS
06-01-2012, 9:07 PM
Welcome to CalGuns!

In (partial) answer to your question, please read the first ten (or so) posts in this thread.

Best regards,

Cap

wizdumb
12-05-2012, 4:09 PM
Is there anything SF residents can help with, since the passage of SB 610?

fizux
01-27-2013, 11:53 PM
Is there anything SF residents can help with, since the passage of SB 610?

Yeah, get out the vote on 11/03/2015. Tell all your friends in free states to move here and give the good weather a chance in the summer of 2015.

The current sheriff received 70,204 votes in 2011, and that was before his little foray into the other side of the criminal justice system. Given the national leadership that SF has provided to gun grabbers, it sure would be a coup to get a shall-issue candidate in office.

Dreaded Claymore
02-20-2014, 7:17 PM
Links to SF's policy in this thread aren't working, they lead to a 404 error on the CGF website. Can they be fixed?

noway
02-25-2014, 8:56 PM
Any news on how Peruta decision will affect SF citizens? I just looked at their application and it still has the requirement for documentation for Good Cause rather than just "Self-Defense".

sfbadger
02-25-2014, 9:54 PM
SF will have to be dragged into court kicking and screaming before we get compliance. This city will be the LAST to get with the program, but they will come around. May as well just sit back and enjoy the show around the rest of the state for now.

fizux
02-28-2014, 8:05 AM
SFPD info & policy page:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=3933

Anyone have any post-Peruta feedback?

Fifty226
03-02-2014, 12:06 AM
SF will have to be dragged into court kicking and screaming before we get compliance. This city will be the LAST to get with the program, but they will come around. May as well just sit back and enjoy the show around the rest of the state for now.

that really sucks because they will be using taxpaper money in courts to deny our 2A rights...:facepalm:...instead of just giving it to us like other cities in CA:mad:

sfbadger
03-02-2014, 6:53 AM
That's the way it's always worked in SF since I can remember. The SF Board of Supervisors enacts an asinine regulation and then Dennis Herrera defends it all the way to the CA Supreme Court, spending SF taxpayer resources every step of the way.

After each loss I usually send him a letter berating him for his decisions and tell him I'm making another donation in his name to the NRA. It's a lovely game we play.

Paladin
03-03-2014, 9:04 AM
SFPD info & policy page:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=3933
Well, I've never seen that before on SFPD's website. How'd you find it???

It's not linked on their homepage:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=1

It's not linked on their list of Permits page:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=869

It's not linked on their Permit Applications Forms page:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=873

So, did SFPD put it up on their website w/o being linked anywhere so that only those who do a search for "concealed carry" or "CCW" ("LTC" does not work) will find it?

Does the SFSO also hide info. re. getting a CCW from them? Or do they think they can somehow break the law and get away with it by declaring G and having "civilians" apply thru SFPD?

http://www.sfsheriff.com/

fizux
03-07-2014, 7:58 AM
I can't find the SFSO policy on their website, but SFPD's has been there quite a while. From the home page, click "information" in the menu, which brings you here:
http://www.sf-police.org/index.aspx?page=1577
The CCW page is linked from there. Yes, I said "CCW" not "LTC." SFPD still calls it "CCW."

noway
03-14-2014, 4:21 PM
I searched "Good Cause CCW" on their search engine, and came to SFPD CCW Licensing Policy on PDF. It's still dated as being revised 01/12/2012. They still require the following for Good Cause.

http://www.sf-police.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentID=25869

1. There is a reported, documented, presently existing, and significant risk of danger to life or of
great bodily injury to the applicant and/or his or her spouse, domestic partner or dependents;
2. The danger of harm is specific to the applicant or his or her immediate family and is not
generally shared by other similarly situated members of the public;
3. Existing law enforcement resources cannot adequately address the danger of harm;
4. The danger of harm cannot reasonably be avoided by alternative measures; and
5. Licensing the applicant to carry a concealed weapon is significantly likely to reduce the
danger of harm.

Still no change post-Peruta ruling. And just when my previous county became shall-issue. Just speculation, but I believe SF will be the LAST city and county to go "shall issue" in CA.

Rigidarm
03-28-2014, 9:41 PM
You SF folks give 'ol soon to be Ex Senator Leland Yee a call and see if he can help out with your CCW. I read that he can work wonders if you pay him a bucket of cash. Heard that he really loves guns after all if the price is right.

fizux
03-31-2014, 6:49 AM
You SF folks give 'ol soon to be Ex Senator Leland Yee a call and see if he can help out with your CCW. I read that he can work wonders if you pay him a bucket of cash. Heard that he really loves guns after all if the price is right.
Can I get an AR-pistol on my permit, or must it be "shoulder fired"?

QuarterBoreGunner
03-31-2014, 7:41 AM
Can I get an AR-pistol on my permit, or must it be "shoulder fired"?

Well the actual wording of the LTC is:

License To Carry Concealed Pistol, Revolver or Other Firearm Within the State of California

And I personally know a guy that had a pistol gripped Rem 870 on his LTC issued by the Santa Clara SO's back in the 90's, so it is possible.

fizux
04-09-2014, 9:34 PM
Anybody heard anything back yet from either SFPD or SFSO?
(other than hurry up and wait)

aberrant
11-12-2014, 10:42 AM
I dropped my application off this morning. The officer who took it was very nice. Strange thing: I had to fill out section 7 in full (usually done by the interviewer) - her rationale was that it was the only part of the form that had a place to put my phone number, and that's how they'd be contacting me.

For Good Cause, I just put "self defense". The officer said that most people attach additional pages, and I mentioned that it shouldn't be required given today's Peruta decision. She laughed.

She said that the app will go downstairs to the Background Investigations department and I should receive a call within 2 weeks. Fingers crossed.

mofugly13
11-20-2014, 10:33 AM
Did you do this through SFPD? SFSD doesn't seem to have any information whatsoever WRT applying for a permit. SFPD requires 'up to' 16 hours of firearms training. When is this supposed to occur? What about the 'psychological evaluation'? Are you planning on just jumping through these hoops as they are presented to you? Sorry for the questions, but I'd love to hear detailed updates as you progress through the process.

I wish CGF would give us an update WRT how the process started and , apparently, ended with wizdumb and sfbadger.

fizux
12-02-2014, 7:10 AM
I will copy/paste/edit/redact my contact notes and send them along to CGF for mass consumption. Don't expect a lot of progress over the holidays with one person juggling updates in 58 counties, while simultaneously quarterbacking a bunch of 3-5 year old litigation that suddenly just got exciting.
Edit: BTW, nothing has changed about the process in years; there really isn't anything to update, except they sure aren't processing applications in a timely manner.

With a likely split in the left-wing vote next year, can anyone get a pro-2A candidate for Sheriff to step up to the plate?

Dickie Doyle
12-24-2014, 11:03 PM
Aberrant, any news on that application you dropped off?

jeremyro
03-23-2015, 4:28 PM
anyone else try this? I am thinking of giving it a shot just to see what happens. Is there a potential downside to applying and being denied?

GlockN'Roll
02-20-2016, 12:01 PM
Lost and Stolen LEO weapons in SF used in crimes:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/20/sf-police-search-for-gun-lost-by-agent-who-left-it-atop-car.html?intcmp=latestnews

And yet citizens can't be trusted with their weapons... :facepalm: