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pheyos
10-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Hi everyone,

I have a Rock Island GI that recently has had some failures to feed on the last round of a magazine. Two range trips ago it happened with the two mags I had, the factory one and a Wilson. It appeared to be a three-point bind.

I cleaned the extractor, firing pin, and magazines. I went back to the range this past weekend with some additional borrowed mags and ran all 4 of them through the gun with 3 rounds in each 3 times. That time there was only one failure to feed, on the Wilson.

The ammunition used two trips ago was Blazer, and the most recent one was UMC.

My brother who was with me noted that the ejected casings weren't leaving consistently. Sometimes they would go at to the side like normal, and others they would fly straight back over my head. When he went up and shot a few rounds one of them even landed on his head. To my knowledge this has only cropped up recently.

The first picture below is a side-by-side comparison of my brother's Argentine 1911 and my Rock Island. The second picture is with a cartridge under each extractor. The Argentine is a bit more snug than the RIA and holds it closer to the breech face, but the RIA won't drop the round when turned over.

I spoke with a gentleman at the range about it and he thought it would be extractor tension or a loose ejector, though he said the loose ejector wouldn't explain the failures to feed. Should I try adjusting the extractor? Should I just shoot more and see if it works itself out?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ria-argentine.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ria-argentine2.jpg

fonzy
10-15-2010, 1:29 AM
I wouldn't mess with the extractor. Sounds like your on the right track with the magazines.

Colt
10-15-2010, 7:16 AM
The first thing to check with a situation like yours is mag springs. If you can, get new Wolff extra power mag springs and try them. If that doesn't work, you may want to tighten up the extractor tension just a little.

Good luck.

JRJCP
10-15-2010, 8:06 AM
Reliability Package:
Adjust & polish extractor
Check ejector
Extra power recoil spring & firing pin spring
O/S firing pin stop
Polish feed ramp
Polish slide internal ways & tunnels
Check all safeties
Chip McCormick Power Mag

Ed_in_Sac
10-15-2010, 8:40 AM
A couple pics of the gun when it fails to feed would give a lot of information. Helps to know where and how the round is when it doesn't feed.

Black Majik
10-15-2010, 9:38 AM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ria-argentine2.jpg

With the round under the extractor, jiggle the slide up and down. Does the round fall out? Does the round jiggle in there?

pheyos
10-17-2010, 11:02 PM
Thank you all for reading and responding. I'm sorry for the delayed reply.

fonzy and Colt, I will start with the mag springs then. Would this be part 969-714-610DG at Brownells?

Ed_in_Sac, on my next range trip I will have a camera on hand for any jams. Didn't forget anything on my last trip except that obvious problem solving tool...

Black Majik, the round doesn't fall out but I think it moves more in the RIA than it does in the Argentine.

badmonkey
10-17-2010, 11:09 PM
any FTF's i've had with my RIA GI have been mag related.

though, i've never had a FTF with the factory mags.

nickvig
10-17-2010, 11:23 PM
Dimpled follower mags or flat follower mags?

pheyos
10-17-2010, 11:49 PM
The factory mag is made by ACT and has a flat follower. The Wilson is molded to follow the shape of the cartridge and has no dimple. I did use a couple of standard mags, with dimples, on the last range trip and they worked fine.

Colt
10-18-2010, 9:29 AM
The dimpled follower is the original design. Checkmate makes a seven round, hybrid lipped mag with dimpled follower. Great mags. Checkmate is OEM for Colt (as is Metalform, I believe - or at least Metalform used to be a Colt OEM).

pheyos
10-19-2010, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the information. I didn't know about Checkmate. Have you had any experience with their bull nose follower?

JanG
10-20-2010, 5:13 AM
have you tried contacting armscor about the problem? i've never used it (knocking on wood), but i heard their warranty and customer service are top notch.

Arondos
10-20-2010, 6:22 AM
I had problems with a magazine (weld split) after about 200 rounds. Replaced by armscorp. Then had a LOT of problems, FTF, FTRB. Pistol was sent back and Arnel worked on it. It has been flawless since. Happy over two issues? Not really. BUT one email on each and both were promptly taken care of by warranty so I can't really complain.

Colt
10-20-2010, 8:02 AM
Thanks for the information. I didn't know about Checkmate. Have you had any experience with their bull nose follower?

No. Others have, however. Search here: http://forum.m1911.org

evidens83
10-20-2010, 8:08 AM
have you tried contacting armscor about the problem? i've never used it (knocking on wood), but i heard their warranty and customer service are top notch.

+1 Get a hold of Arnel and see what he has to say. Their service is top notch! If you cant get it right he will!!

pheyos
10-20-2010, 11:20 PM
I haven't contacted Armscor yet. I was hoping it was something I could take care of before having to send my 1911 off. Arondos, how long did you have to wait before yours was returned?

I checked the m1911 forums and the Checkmate mags have good comments. Learned the bull nose follower has a dimple on it too, and is skirted at the front to keep it from tipping forward. Maybe my bro will get a couple for Christmas and I'll just "borrow" them to see how they work out.

pheyos
11-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Hi all,

Got an update and hopeful resolution to my FTF. Please forgive the resurrection of this thread, if it is a problem.

I took the 1911 to the range one more time and got the following pics. The problem crept in again, until every mag had a FTF on the last round. The first three are of one jam, the last two of another.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ftf1.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ftf2.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ftf3.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ftf4.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/ftf5.jpg

Friends observed my structure and grip and assured me the problem wasn't an insufficient locked wrist.

pheyos
11-23-2010, 12:05 AM
I decided to contact Rock Island and received a response in three business days. I sent the pistol in via FedEx on my dime, and received it back on their's 4 business days later.

In retrospect I maybe shouldn't have cleaned the pistol before sending it in, since I received a note back saying that they couldn't replicate the problem.

However, Rock Island has excellent customer service and they polished the feed ramp, barrel throat and chamber, and tuned the extractor anyways.

Pardon the poor quality, but the following are the after pics.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/r1.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/r2.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/pheyos/ria/r3.jpg

I haven't taken it to the range yet but I'm highly optimistic this won't need anything else done to it.

Cyc Wid It
11-23-2010, 12:15 AM
Good to see an appropriate thread follow up! Hopefully it's good to go, the customer service sounds pretty good (and quick).

Ed_in_Sac
11-23-2010, 8:41 AM
Thanks for the follow up, glad to hear of the quick turn around. Am guessing that the first picture is showing a heavy amount of preservative on the slide???

SamSung
11-23-2010, 9:13 AM
I'm sure they fixed the problem, but tried to let you think that they can't replicate the problem, I have the same problem on mine when my Tac is new, I sent it in and 1st thing the gunsmith told me (not Arnel) over the phone is "yes" it did FTF on the 1st round, then when I got my Tac back there is a note saying they can't replicate the problem ???? :confused: but they "Tuned" the extractor, polish the feed ramp, throated the barrel etc... but it had performed flawlessly since I got it back from them, I agree their CS is top notch they even gave me an extra magazine to compensate the shipping of the gun to them.

wu_dot_com
11-23-2010, 9:38 AM
Hi all,

Got an update and hopeful resolution to my FTF. Please forgive the resurrection of this thread, if it is a problem.

I took the 1911 to the range one more time and got the following pics. The problem crept in again, until every mag had a FTF on the last round. The first three are of one jam, the last two of another.


Friends observed my structure and grip and assured me the problem wasn't an insufficient locked wrist.

from the looks of things, seems like the feed problem is most likely due to your mag and the feed ramp angle. you have a semiwaddcutter hybrid feed lip for your mag, which sometime cause hangup like yours if the lips openings are too wide.

to ensure feeding, you can change your recoil spring to an extra power one. this will usually force feed the bullet in a minor hang up like yours. just make sure you dont use light target loads. other wise it will not cycle or eject properly.

your ejection problem is another issue in itself. most likely its due to your extractor is low on spring tension. its not holding the empty shells tight and the shells are not hit on the same location by the ejector.

giving the extractor a little more bend and polish both the top and bottom hook edges will help smooth both feeding and ejection.

Colt
11-23-2010, 9:40 AM
Sounds like great customer service. I hope it's resolved.

pheyos
11-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Thanks for the follow up, glad to hear of the quick turn around. Am guessing that the first picture is showing a heavy amount of preservative on the slide???

Yes, it came back well coated and I haven't cleaned it off yet.

I'm sure they fixed the problem, but tried to let you think that they can't replicate the problem, I have the same problem on mine when my Tac is new, I sent it in and 1st thing the gunsmith told me (not Arnel) over the phone is "yes" it did FTF on the 1st round, then when I got my Tac back there is a note saying they can't replicate the problem ???? :confused: but they "Tuned" the extractor, polish the feed ramp, throated the barrel etc... but it had performed flawlessly since I got it back from them, I agree their CS is top notch they even gave me an extra magazine to compensate the shipping of the gun to them.

Glad to hear it worked out for you in the end. I read on other threads and forums they usually come back ready to roll. If mine doesn't, you'll hear from me loud and clear...