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Gray Peterson
10-14-2010, 10:39 PM
Read the last few pages of this thread to get an idea of where SB stands currently.

Update (2014 Jan 09): added a "thumbs up" symbol to thread title. Explanation for it at: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=15600007

Update (2014 Feb 15): In the below interview, McMahon says that going to the bank at night and personal protection meet his GC standard (2:00 - 2:26). He also sounds like he believes SD = GC because of the 2nd A (3:55 - 4:50).
TG4GSQOsWe8

Application Submission Procedure
I had the same problem with mine and ended up printing and calling, left a voicemail and they called the next day to schedule it. But between me leaving the voicemail and them calling the next day, I was able to submit by using Acrobat reader directly.

1) Save the PDF file to your hard drive (won't save any data),
2) open the hard drive copy in Acrobat reader,
3) fill it out, hit submit,
4) it saves an XML file with the data only to the hard drive and opens your Outlook, Thunderbird, etc. (won't work in webmail as posted by Cokebottle.)
5) Attach that unaltered XML data file to the email and send.

It's an unnecessarily complicated process that only works if you are computer savvy. Wish they'd let me fix their file and process. There is no reason that file can't be data "saveable" once it hits the hard drive.

MrBrent
10-18-2010, 6:10 PM
I guess I will start this off. I received a CCW a little over a year ago in this county. I am very grateful that it is possible but I have a few issues I would like changed that come to mind. First they do issue for personal protection as a GC which is a good thing. Recently they have reduced their staff of BI's down to one and are starting to back up again on applicants so it is a long process. My time line was end of February to early August to get my permit. Now for things I would like to see changed in no particular order.
1. Fees are high. Total was about $250.00
2. You need 7 references. Three letters written and 4 that will be contacted with questionnaires. This seems excessive.
3. You are limited to only 3 guns on your permit and are charged a fee to change if you don't do it during a renewal.
4. I don't like the fact that they contact your employer.
5. I don't like the fact that they disclose to your neighbors that you are applying for a ccw when doing the neighborhood check.

This is what comes to mind tonight.
I do want to say that the people we deal with at the Sheriff's office are awesome. Very professional and easy to work with.

Thanks
Calguns for all you do:D

winnre
10-19-2010, 9:22 AM
1. If you cannot afford the fees you cannot afford the gun.
2. I had no problem with references. You need more friends. :>
3. I'd like to see them approve by caliber.
4. My employer is weirding out on me now since they were contacted.
5. My neighbors answer the doors with guns.

1_Grendel
10-19-2010, 11:18 AM
Getting a CCW in San Bernardino is not as easy as our neighbor Arizona but I found it was not all that difficult to jump through all their hoops. :rolleyes:
Took less than a year to get my CCW. I like it better than American Express I don’t go anywhere without it now.:D

AndrewMendez
10-19-2010, 11:32 AM
MrBrent,
1.) The max a County can charge by law is $100.00, but don't expect a refund.
2.) Illegal, will be taken care of
3.) They can not limit the amount of guns 1 can carry. Did it give you the option to add an addt sheet of paper?
4.) and 5.) scratching my head on this one. I will look into it though.

Knauga
10-19-2010, 12:28 PM
1. If you cannot afford the fees you cannot afford the gun.
2. I had no problem with references. You need more friends. :>
3. I'd like to see them approve by caliber.
4. My employer is weirding out on me now since they were contacted.
5. My neighbors answer the doors with guns.

1. It is besides the point. While the fee isn't excessive by California standards, it is too high to charge for something as basic as self defense.

2. I didn't have problems with references either, but I do have a problem with invading my privacy. I don't want anybody knowing my business unless I bring it up with them.

3. I would like to see them issue a license for me to carry concealed, and keep out of the minutiae of the type and caliber of handgun I do carry.

4. I had to threaten my boss with taking him to HR if he continued in his notion to include documentation in my personnel file about my having a CCW. HR and corp security finally told him that it was none of his business and anything he was thinking of doing as far as documentation was wrong.

5. My neighbors don't need to know whether or not I have a CCW, just like *I* don't need to know whether or not my neighbors have a ccw. For the record, they never did a neighborhood check with me, they were too backed up.

The process in this state (this county) is too invasive and it is getting too restrictive. The whole process ought to surround whether or not my prints came back clean and that I am not a subject in an active investigation, period.

The fee for the license should be the bare minimum to run my prints and issue the license (materials).

1_Grendel
10-19-2010, 1:13 PM
I don’t know about every background investigator but the one I had specifically told me that the officer is not to disclose that you are trying to acquire a CCW. The questioning of your neighbors is to find out what kind of person you are. I was told that neighbors seem to know much more than one would think. If a neighbor answers a hypothetical questions such as “have you ever seen (name here) angry, upset,? What did (name here) do? Do you see (name here) drink?”
I was told that the investigator would tell my boss and neighbors that they were only doing a background investigation and not divulge the why. I know others may have completely different experiences; this is the way mine went down.
I chose to tell my boss what I was doing I told my neighbors that it was a background check for work; I have to visit different government building.

I would like this process to be like Arizona but until the law gets changed I understand why counties such as San Bernardino do what they do in an attempt to satisfy the law (as it is currently understood & enforced in this state.)

MrBrent
10-19-2010, 5:12 PM
MrBrent,
1.) The max a County can charge by law is $100.00, but don't expect a refund.
2.) Illegal, will be taken care of
3.) They can not limit the amount of guns 1 can carry. Did it give you the option to add an addt sheet of paper?
4.) and 5.) scratching my head on this one. I will look into it though.

The fees I paid were 3 cashiers checks. One for $112.00 the second for $110.00 and the third was for $30.00 for the Concealed weapons course. I don't remember which of the first two went to the person at the Live Scan window.

As far as the references and letters go I didn't have any problems once I determined who I wanted to ask to do this for me. It cost me several lunches as I took several of them to lunch to discuss and let them know how important this was to me and it must be kept confidential. I still think 7 references is extreme.

My neighbor was told I was applying for a CCW and she directly asked me about carrying a gun the next day so they did not use general questions in my case.
Lastly my employer received a very basic questionnaire (four or five questions if I remember correctly) and HR called me into her office and she asked a few questions. The letter specifically stated I was applying for a CCW no question about it. Luck for me she had just moved here from TX and it didn't seem to phase her at all. It has never been mentioned again at the office.

Southwest Chuck
10-20-2010, 9:46 AM
What if you're self employed as I am. Do they interview me twice? :D

Thunderhawk
10-21-2010, 6:29 AM
1. If you cannot afford the fees you cannot afford the gun.
2. I had no problem with references. You need more friends. :>
3. I'd like to see them approve by caliber.
4. My employer is weirding out on me now since they were contacted.
5. My neighbors answer the doors with guns.

1. That is a rather arrogant way to look at self defence. So you figure the poor don't need to protect themselves?

2. Seven is rather excessive. The fewer people knowing your business, especially for CCW, the better.

3. Approval by caliber is better than a 3 gun limit.

4. Some employers freak out over guns and CCW. It is none of their business. All they should be told is that it is a background check.

5. What if you have a very "anti-gun" neighbor? Maybe you need a better neighborhood? ;- )

I've had my CCW for almost 4 years. The renewal process is much better now, but the initial process for new CCW applications needs to be streamlined and made more affordable so more folks can carry.

vampLer
10-21-2010, 4:16 PM
5. What if your neighbors are the reason you want a CCW... ;)

Noah3683
10-21-2010, 7:14 PM
5. What if your neighbors are the reason you want a CCW... ;)

^This. Directly to each side of me, they are cool. 2-3 doors each direction = about 7-8 punks divided among 3 homes + their friends.

Cokebottle
10-21-2010, 9:34 PM
^This. Directly to each side of me, they are cool. 2-3 doors each direction = about 7-8 punks divided among 3 homes + their friends.
Similar situation here.
The guy next to me is a firefighter and has watched me camo the AR in the back yard.
The guy next to him is a fellow 03/COE.
3 of the 4 in the building across from me, I would prefer that they don't know that there are any guns in the house.
Same goes for around 30 of the 44 units in my complex.

The neighborhood check and personal references are the two things that have stalled me from applying.

1_Grendel
10-22-2010, 6:53 AM
Similar situation here.
The guy next to me is a firefighter and has watched me camo the AR in the back yard.
The guy next to him is a fellow 03/COE.
3 of the 4 in the building across from me, I would prefer that they don't know that there are any guns in the house.
Same goes for around 30 of the 44 units in my complex.

The neighborhood check and personal references are the two things that have stalled me from applying.


Tell your background investigator your concerns. Don’t let some a** in your neighborhood detour you from getting a CCW.
I told my investigator about everyone I knew in my neighborhood. The good and bad people, the ones that seemed to have the PD at the house monthly. I was in my interview for a good 1.5 hours talking with the investigator. Him asking me questions and me asking him questions; it was a very good experience. You are not the only one who is concerned about their neighbors. I know this because when I made my request that I wished the neighbors did not know about my CCW I was reassured that discretion would be used. To this day my neighbors do not know I have a CCW and I plan on keeping it that way.
Apply, go through the process, don’t let any issue stop you. For almost 9 years I had excuses why I did not get my CCW and I still kick myself for not doing it sooner. Getting that envelop in the mail was a very exciting day I equate it to when one receives a drivers license or buys theirs first house. Running out to Wally World and getting some nachos is an experience everyone should have. Being able to walk down the street in front of the Orange County Sheriff department, while carrying has a great FU feeling that all in this area should feel.
It really sucks for many in this state that they can not get a CCW we are lucky enough to be in a county were it is fairly easy (in Ca. terms) to get the CCW. In a way I feel a very good reason for getting a CCW is like the reason I joined the military. I owe it to my country to serve my time, in the same way I should demonstrate my 2A right within this screwed up state and get a CCW.
In general the CCW community is full of great helpful people, start the process and ask questions; you will be glad you did.
I would like to politely tell everyone to get off their lazy a** and apply, go through the process and get your CCW. :D Get in line now before the line gets longer.

MrBrent
10-22-2010, 6:11 PM
Tell your background investigator your concerns. Don’t let some a** in your neighborhood detour you from getting a CCW.
I told my investigator about everyone I knew in my neighborhood. The good and bad people, the ones that seemed to have the PD at the house monthly. I was in my interview for a good 1.5 hours talking with the investigator. Him asking me questions and me asking him questions; it was a very good experience. You are not the only one who is concerned about their neighbors. I know this because when I made my request that I wished the neighbors did not know about my CCW I was reassured that discretion would be used. To this day my neighbors do not know I have a CCW and I plan on keeping it that way.
Apply, go through the process, don’t let any issue stop you. For almost 9 years I had excuses why I did not get my CCW and I still kick myself for not doing it sooner. Getting that envelop in the mail was a very exciting day I equate it to when one receives a drivers license or buys theirs first house. Running out to Wally World and getting some nachos is an experience everyone should have. Being able to walk down the street in front of the Orange County Sheriff department, while carrying has a great FU feeling that all in this area should feel.
It really sucks for many in this state that they can not get a CCW we are lucky enough to be in a county were it is fairly easy (in Ca. terms) to get the CCW. In a way I feel a very good reason for getting a CCW is like the reason I joined the military. I owe it to my country to serve my time, in the same way I should demonstrate my 2A right within this screwed up state and get a CCW.
In general the CCW community is full of great helpful people, start the process and ask questions; you will be glad you did.
I would like to politely tell everyone to get off their lazy a** and apply, go through the process and get your CCW. :D Get in line now before the line gets longer.

+1 Well said Grendel!!

Untamed1972
10-25-2010, 12:07 PM
Tell your background investigator your concerns. Don’t let some a** in your neighborhood detour you from getting a CCW.
I told my investigator about everyone I knew in my neighborhood. The good and bad people, the ones that seemed to have the PD at the house monthly. I was in my interview for a good 1.5 hours talking with the investigator. Him asking me questions and me asking him questions; it was a very good experience. You are not the only one who is concerned about their neighbors. I know this because when I made my request that I wished the neighbors did not know about my CCW I was reassured that discretion would be used. To this day my neighbors do not know I have a CCW and I plan on keeping it that way.
Apply, go through the process, don’t let any issue stop you. For almost 9 years I had excuses why I did not get my CCW and I still kick myself for not doing it sooner. Getting that envelop in the mail was a very exciting day I equate it to when one receives a drivers license or buys theirs first house. Running out to Wally World and getting some nachos is an experience everyone should have. Being able to walk down the street in front of the Orange County Sheriff department, while carrying has a great FU feeling that all in this area should feel.
It really sucks for many in this state that they can not get a CCW we are lucky enough to be in a county were it is fairly easy (in Ca. terms) to get the CCW. In a way I feel a very good reason for getting a CCW is like the reason I joined the military. I owe it to my country to serve my time, in the same way I should demonstrate my 2A right within this screwed up state and get a CCW.
In general the CCW community is full of great helpful people, start the process and ask questions; you will be glad you did.
I would like to politely tell everyone to get off their lazy a** and apply, go through the process and get your CCW. :D Get in line now before the line gets longer.

but the point being, why should the process for a CCW be anymore invasive then it is get a drivers license? And I concur with the sentiments stated by others here about the invasivness of the process. But perhaps as more Dept's start issuing they will see that such extensive investigating is not needed and is not cost effective.

NVR2L8
10-26-2010, 2:09 PM
So any news regarding the policy guidelines for getting a CCW in San Bernardino County? I can't apply until after 12/21/10 as per the one year residence requirement...:mad:...but I'm especially curious as to the legality of the one year residency thing as well as needing three character reference letters in addition to four additional personal references.

So is there an upcoming initiative to challenge any or all of those requirements?

wildhawker
10-26-2010, 2:21 PM
So is there an upcoming initiative to challenge any or all of those requirements?

Yes, this very initiative will do just that.

Wherryj
11-12-2010, 10:08 AM
1. It is besides the point. While the fee isn't excessive by California standards, it is too high to charge for something as basic as self defense.
I agree. Taxing a Constitutional right seems rather unconstitutional for lack of a better term.
2. I didn't have problems with references either, but I do have a problem with invading my privacy. I don't want anybody knowing my business unless I bring it up with them.
I also agree. It invades one's privacy, and what is it supposed to do? As a physician I need references from other physicians who have been certified by the hospital and are thus "trusted" sources of info. If you are a dirtbag, you can probably get 7 other dirtbags to write you a reference. You could also be a smooth operating dirtbag who could get the mayors of 7 local cities to write you a reference. I don't see what this accomplishes.
3. I would like to see them issue a license for me to carry concealed, and keep out of the minutiae of the type and caliber of handgun I do carry.
Again, I have to agree. It is a Constitutional right. The Constitition didn't specify caliber of "arm" that one has the "right to bear".
4. I had to threaten my boss with taking him to HR if he continued in his notion to include documentation in my personnel file about my having a CCW. HR and corp security finally told him that it was none of his business and anything he was thinking of doing as far as documentation was wrong.
You are lucky that your company had a reasonable HR and security department. If you hadn't, you might be tasked with finding a lawyer about that wrongful termination, all because you chose to exercise a Constitional right?
5. My neighbors don't need to know whether or not I have a CCW, just like *I* don't need to know whether or not my neighbors have a ccw. For the record, they never did a neighborhood check with me, they were too backed up.
I think that it makes as much sense to let your neighbors know about your firearm as it does to inform me every time they purchase an otherwise valuable trinket. We wouldn't want anyone hiding stuff that might be nice to steal now, would we? What right do my neighbors have to know what I own? Have they put in their references that prove that they aren't thieves?
The process in this state (this county) is too invasive and it is getting too restrictive. The whole process ought to surround whether or not my prints came back clean and that I am not a subject in an active investigation, period.

The fee for the license should be the bare minimum to run my prints and issue the license (materials).

I agree with all of your points. It may not seem overly onerous, but these are unreasonable restrictions.

Wherryj
11-12-2010, 10:12 AM
but the point being, why should the process for a CCW be anymore invasive then it is get a drivers license? And I concur with the sentiments stated by others here about the invasivness of the process. But perhaps as more Dept's start issuing they will see that such extensive investigating is not needed and is not cost effective.

This is a good point. Driving is a PRIVILEDGE, yet it takes less effort to get a driver's license than a "protection license". It is less protected by the Constitution and also responsible for far more death and disability than CCW. Somehow, it is more "protected" by this state.

For the anti's who state that CCW is dangerous, I challenge them to find an article about a wrongful death related to CCW in any state. I BET that I can find a more recent traffic death.

ivsamhell
01-16-2011, 11:13 AM
Can we expect fees to come down ever? I spent less than $100 total to get a Utah permit.....

wildhawker
01-16-2011, 12:30 PM
Can we expect fees to come down ever? I spent less than $100 total to get a Utah permit.....

At or below the statutory caps on fees? Yes. (Some counties overcharge, and we're dealing with those in our Initiative).

Further reductions (and waivers/subsidies for low-income applicants) will be a case or two after we get carry rights acknowledged at USSC.

macentyre
01-23-2011, 1:28 AM
got mine into SBCo and it's been since October....was told by the investigator that I passed and it just needed a signature....that was December 3rd. Guess they are taking their sweet time!

Steveo8
02-15-2011, 5:41 AM
Any thing happening in San Bernardino as far as reference letters and high fees?

erejota
02-21-2011, 2:48 PM
It is my understanding that I have to apply to Ontario P.D. first and get a denial letter from them,then apply with S.B.S.O.
Has anybody here done this?
How long did it take to get the denial letter?
Any info will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ross

wildhawker
02-21-2011, 4:48 PM
You do not have to pre-apply to any other licensing authority.

-Brandon

Steveo8
03-09-2011, 7:52 AM
Has anybody heard that the SO is having applicants fill out an additional questionnaire of about a 100 questions at the interview?

winnre
03-09-2011, 12:56 PM
I was asked for more stuff at the interview but a hundred questions? What more could they want to know?

I did have to fill out a short form, I think it was yellow. It asks stuff like have you been arrested, was is dismissed, and other minutia requests. Nothing they could not finds out on their own!

MrBrent
03-12-2011, 7:31 PM
It's not a hundred questions. It may seem like it. Don't sweat it and be completely honest and you will be fine.

ivsamhell
03-13-2011, 4:59 PM
its illegal for them to ask about arrests that did not lead to conviction.......

winnre
03-14-2011, 7:49 PM
its illegal for them to ask about arrests that did not lead to conviction.......

They;re going to know when they run your numbers anyway. Chalk this one up to honesty. Will you tell them what they already know?

PsychGuy274
03-29-2011, 11:31 AM
I need someone who's recently gone through the San Bernardino County CCW application process to PM me. I have a few questions.

I prefer someone who's gone through it within the last year or so, but the more recent the better. Whether or not your received a CCW is irrelevant. You will be kept 100% anonymous and I will divulge NO personal information.

All I need is for you to PM me with your name, phone number and a good time to contact you.

Thanks.

Just wanted to let everyone know that PsychGuy is working with CGF on this FYI.

-Brandon

Donny1
03-29-2011, 10:35 PM
Tagged

Interested in applying but the 7 references and one year residency are putting me off. Any updates appreciated.

G1500
03-29-2011, 11:00 PM
Can we use other CGN members in SBC who have CCWs as our 7 references?

:D

PsychGuy274
03-30-2011, 9:12 AM
Tagged

Interested in applying but the 7 references and one year residency are putting me off. Any updates appreciated.

Don't worry about it. I'm working on it right now, but I need info from people who already have applied. If you know of any, please PM me their contact info if they're OK with that.

The Shadow
03-30-2011, 9:23 AM
its illegal for them to ask about arrests that did not lead to conviction.......

I think it should go deeper than that. Why should a person be denied if they're not a prohibited person ? Would a conviction for carrying concealed without a permission slip be grounds for denial ? It's no worse than driving without a drivers license, and I don't think people would be denied for that ?

PsychGuy274
03-30-2011, 9:31 AM
I think it should go deeper than that. Why should a person be denied if they're not a prohibited person ? Would a conviction for carrying concealed without a permission slip be grounds for denial ? It's no worse than driving without a drivers license, and I don't think people would be denied for that ?

That's what we have to deal with living in a May (read:won't) Issue state.

Cokebottle
03-30-2011, 5:06 PM
Tagged

Interested in applying but the 7 references and one year residency are putting me off. Any updates appreciated.
Ditto.
7 references, neighborhood check (they say they are discreet... how discreet is a cop asking questions about you?), and the employer conversation.
While I don't care about my immediate supervisor, if they move up the chain to the Director of Public Works it could be uncomfortable.

The Shadow
04-07-2011, 11:22 PM
That's what we have to deal with living in a May (read:won't) Issue state.

That's true, but San Bernardino has this reputation of being shall issue, but they put these barriers in front of people and expect applicants to jump through ridiculous hoops that are in fact illegal.

You can't get a permit unless you live in the county for at least one year.

You have to get three letters of reference from friends.

You have to give four names that they can interview.

I'll just bet that you probably don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting one if you've been convicted of CCWing without a permission slip.

They have only one background investigator that interviews you to see if you measure up, and they still decide if you meet their standards of good cause and good moral character.

And now I understand that they have ONE HUNDRED QUESTIONS that you must answer before they interview you. I can only imagine how a person would be treated if they leave something out as a matter of over sight and not because the applicant was attempting to deceive.

If you can get through the Labyrinth of tasks that you must perform in the SBSO Dog and Pony show, and you agree to the Sheriff's best imitation of the Ten Commandments as he attempts to mimic God, and bestows his mercy and grace on you as he places his seal on you, then great, I'm happy for you. But from where I stand, he's not much better than others.

PsychGuy274
04-08-2011, 1:05 AM
That's true, but San Bernardino has this reputation of being shall issue, but they put these barriers in front of people and expect applicants to jump through ridiculous hoops that are in fact illegal.

You can't get a permit unless you live in the county for at least one year.

You have to get three letters of reference from friends.

You have to give four names that they can interview.

I'll just bet that you probably don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting one if you've been convicted of CCWing without a permission slip.

They have only one background investigator that interviews you to see if you measure up, and they still decide if you meet their standards of good cause and good moral character.

And now I understand that they have ONE HUNDRED QUESTIONS that you must answer before they interview you. I can only imagine how a person would be treated if they leave something out as a matter of over sight and not because the applicant was attempting to deceive.

If you can get through the Labyrinth of tasks that you must perform in the SBSO Dog and Pony show, and you agree to the Sheriff's best imitation of the Ten Commandments as he attempts to mimic God, and bestows his mercy and grace on you as he places his seal on you, then great, I'm happy for you. But from where I stand, he's not much better than others.

I agree completely. I'll have updates on SBSD soon.

CJSdrftFlat
04-12-2011, 3:22 PM
any updates? I'm going to move down to rialto to go to school at arrowhead regional medical center.

haole_50
04-13-2011, 6:52 AM
What are the renewal fees? How often?

quikduk
04-13-2011, 10:06 AM
I "think" that the renewal fee is $100 and the process/class is fairly painless AFAIK...but I'll verify and reply when I know more.

EDIT: (Here goes nothin')

1. You will receive a letter before your renewal date BUT you can't submit the required "questionnaire/application" until 60 days prior to your renewal date.

2. I "think" that the fees are in three (3) checks/MOs etc and the amounts are $52/$24/$25 but what they are for is unknown (at least to me at this time).

3. I "think" it would be a good idea to bring a copy of your initial "approved" application to help you remember dates etc. in case the short application asks. (I can't remember what I did yesterday)

4. I "think" that the "personal protection" is still a valid SBDo "good cause" statement. YMMVOC

Knauga
04-13-2011, 9:35 PM
2. I "think" that the fees are in three (3) checks/MOs etc and the amounts are $52/$24/$25 but what they are for is unknown (at least to me at this time).

The cost of renewal is $52.00 made out to Department of Justice, $24.00 made to SBSD for processing and $25.00 for the Safety Class, all in money orders.

Standard CCW renews every two years.

Donny1
04-23-2011, 9:16 AM
I was just looking at the SB County Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms page and it looks to me like it changed because I no longer see the requirement for the three CCW references. I see the requirement for the four personal references is still there. Did something change or am I missing it.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/SanBernardino.pdf

Also, if the standard DOJ application is what they are supposed to use why is their application so involved. Work history, residence history, traffic tickets, etc.

PsychGuy274
04-23-2011, 1:38 PM
I was just looking at the SB County Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms page and it looks to me like it changed because I no longer see the requirement for the three CCW references. I see the requirement for the four personal references is still there. Did something change or am I missing it.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/SanBernardino.pdf

Also, if the standard DOJ application is what they are supposed to use why is their application so involved. Work history, residence history, traffic tickets, etc.

The character reference requirement is still there on page 2 of the CCW Application Instructions page.

I'm currently working on SBC with CGF.

Cokebottle
04-23-2011, 5:04 PM
I no longer see the requirement for the three CCW references.
I don't recall there ever being a requirement for references from 3 others who hold a valid CCW. At least, that's not been the case since 2005 when I first looked into the requirements.

PsychGuy274
04-23-2011, 5:57 PM
I don't recall there ever being a requirement for references from 3 others who hold a valid CCW. At least, that's not been the case since 2005 when I first looked into the requirements.

There's no requirement to have references from people who hold a CCW. I think he means references FOR a CCW.

NVR2L8
05-17-2011, 2:40 PM
I finally got off my butt and provided some monetary support for all the hard work regarding San Bernardino County. Looking forward to hearing some good news soon...

kingsfan8888
06-13-2011, 9:44 PM
-What do the letters on my behalf need to say?
-I have my references and printed the online PDF file. Where do I list my 4 references and what information do I need?
-What amount money order do I need when I drop off my application?

jaymz
06-23-2011, 9:05 PM
Any idea when SBCounty will be listed as "time to apply"? Weeks (anything but "two weeks"!), months, years?

wildhawker
06-23-2011, 9:17 PM
Any idea when SBCounty will be listed as "time to apply"? Weeks (anything but "two weeks"!), months, years?

We're very close to working on the SB policy issues. Those who don't mind the hoops the SBSO have applicants jump through should feel free to apply now.

Cokebottle
06-23-2011, 9:20 PM
We're very close to working on the SB policy issues. Those who don't mind the hoops the SBSO have applicants jump through should feel free to apply now.
Not yet.

Just got a new neighbor and he's currently in the category of "I don't want him to know that I own guns, much less am applying for CCW"

He's older and seems like a nice guy, but still has a bit of the "banger" look.


Thanks, but I'll wait until the hoops are cleared.

No, wait... we want to keep Hoops, at least he will issue for personal protection ;)

PsychGuy274
06-23-2011, 9:28 PM
Any idea when SBCounty will be listed as "time to apply"? Weeks (anything but "two weeks"!), months, years?

SBC is 'virtually' virtual shall issue so you have a fairly good chance of getting a CCW if you apply. HOWEVER, they do have a lot of illegal requirements. I am personally working on this matter with the CGF and I suggest you wait until I get in touch with them over these issues. Of course, if you don't mind the illegal requirements you could just apply now. Again though, I suggest you wait.

Donny1
06-23-2011, 9:32 PM
tagged

Knauga
06-23-2011, 10:07 PM
I don't like some of the goofy policies at SBSD, but I would say that if you want your CCW you should apply. Department is very CCW friendly, but has always had a bit of a maverick attitude towards the way it does things.

Kingsfan, the letters can be as simple as "I have known kingsfan for x number of years. I know him to be of good character. I know he is applying for a license to carry a concealed weapon. If you need to contact me, I may be reached at 909-867-5309

Signed kingsfan's friend"

The only application they will accept is the one they give you. They number them. On the cover sheet it will include the amounts of the money orders and who they should be made out to. Letter writers get a phone call, references get a half page questionnaire. References don't need to be anybody special, just not relatives.

Cokebottle, during the interview just mention that the one neighbor looks a bit sketchy and you are worried about them knowing you have any guns. I think the neighborhood check is unnecessary, and they don't always do them, but the stubborn streak in the SD is about a mile wide, who knows how long it will take to change the policy. I appreciate those trying to correct the wrongs here, but don't let those wrongs stop you from applying if you want your CCW.

jaymz
06-23-2011, 10:26 PM
If they'd not contact my employer, the rest I can deal with. HR people where I work are not gun friendly. I'm sure they'd freak out and I'd end up with much unwanted attention. I can wait a bit longer.

Knauga
06-25-2011, 12:52 AM
I understand that. My boss's boss had a bit of a tizzy about it until our HR department told him it was none of his business as long as I followed company policy. HR departments are about staying within the law. Generally they will give you the least guff about things.

Ultimately it is a personal decision, I wish the SD didn't feel it necessary to do that thorough of a background investigation, or at least keep the CCW angle out of it and just call it part of a routine background investigation.

G1500
06-25-2011, 1:45 AM
As far as contacting employers, what about folks who are currently unemployed? Do they skip that, or is it something that will be frowned upon?

kel-tec-innovations
06-25-2011, 2:47 AM
What if I am the employer? :confused: unless they plan to call my employer like 6 years ago.

Knauga
06-26-2011, 11:16 AM
Unemployed/self employed/retired there would be nobody to contact.

PsychGuy274
06-26-2011, 11:20 AM
Unemployed/self employed/retired there would be nobody to contact.

And old age too. I know someone who doesn't really have any contacts because they've passed away.

SmokinMr2
07-27-2011, 10:02 AM
Another month.
Anything new, or anything for us to do?

jaymz
07-27-2011, 3:47 PM
The wait is killing me! I thought SB County was going to be one of the first "time to apply" counties due to the reputation as one of the easier places to get a CCW.

wildhawker
07-27-2011, 4:00 PM
The wait is killing me! I thought SB County was going to be one of the first "time to apply" counties due to the reputation as one of the easier places to get a CCW.

See this: http://calgunsfoundation.org/news/175-merced12050.html

Everything in its order.

SBCSO is moving up to the top quickly. Allow some time for this new lawsuit to circulate, as well as some other things we have working in the background, and we'll let everyone know next steps ASAP.

-Brandon

Cokebottle
07-27-2011, 6:34 PM
The wait is killing me! I thought SB County was going to be one of the first "time to apply" counties due to the reputation as one of the easier places to get a CCW.
I actually assumed that it would be further down the road.

While "low hanging fruit" is easier to pick, in the interests of expanding freedom to more residents of California, I would expect the "right denied" counties to be the first attacked.

wildhawker
07-27-2011, 8:46 PM
I actually assumed that it would be further down the road.

While "low hanging fruit" is easier to pick, in the interests of expanding freedom to more residents of California, I would expect the "right denied" counties to be the first attacked.

It's a little of both, and neither.

There are specific laws, facts, and conditions which inform the overall strategy. Also, can anyone really predict where we're going next, what we're doing, and why?

I didn't think so.

That works for us.

-Brandon

Cokebottle
07-27-2011, 9:11 PM
Quite true.

A little low hanging fruit to set a good precedent, then a serious attack.

Lather, rinse, repeat.


Or as Gene says... "Chess, not checkers"

Novaholic
08-03-2011, 10:53 AM
I'm new to Calguns and have spent many hours reading posts and learning, maybe someone can pm me regarding the process and any possible things I can do before I apply for a CCW, Thanks for all the hard work done on this site!!

rob474
08-18-2011, 7:00 PM
SBC is 'virtually' virtual shall issue so you have a fairly good chance of getting a CCW if you apply. HOWEVER, they do have a lot of illegal requirements. I am personally working on this matter with the CGF and I suggest you wait until I get in touch with them over these issues. Of course, if you don't mind the illegal requirements you could just apply now. Again though, I suggest you wait.

hey guys i am new here i have lived in sbc for a while now and have been wanting to get my ccw but i was sure how to go about it. i have learned alot from just reading info on this site so i say thank you.
now i have a question i have read where you say your working on making it easyier has anything changed yet? i will do more reading and probably be asking alot more question i hope no one minds. where is the best place to start in getting ready to get my ccw i am looking at going next month to do what ever paper work i need to do and anything else. ok now i need a link to the best place to start reading lol thank you everyone for your input
thanks
rob

PsychGuy274
08-18-2011, 8:04 PM
hey guys i am new here i have lived in sbc for a while now and have been wanting to get my ccw but i was sure how to go about it. i have learned alot from just reading info on this site so i say thank you.
now i have a question i have read where you say your working on making it easyier has anything changed yet? i will do more reading and probably be asking alot more question i hope no one minds. where is the best place to start in getting ready to get my ccw i am looking at going next month to do what ever paper work i need to do and anything else. ok now i need a link to the best place to start reading lol thank you everyone for your input
thanks
rob

Howdy and welcome to the forums!

As of now there haven't been any changes to SBSD policies, but we're working on it.

You have two choices 1) you can apply now and go through all of their illegal requirements, or 2) you can wait until the policies change. And unfortunately there isn't an ETA on that.

IF you choose to just go ahead and apply I'd like you to contact me over PM because I'll have questions about their policies that I'd like to get confirmed.

Good luck!

Cokebottle
08-18-2011, 8:43 PM
And don't forget... SBC needs more sponsors.
We're currently sitting on only FOUR individual sponsors for a total of $600... and $300 of that $600 was my contribution (and will likely be sending a similar contrib next spring).

We've got no vendor sponsors yet.

So while some counties are sitting on having met or exceeded their goals, we're not even close... at $600 of a total of $3600 needed.

So spread the word and let's get some people opening their wallets to actually do something to help further our goals.
Laws don't change themselves, and lawyers aren't cheap!

Cokebottle
08-18-2011, 8:46 PM
BTW: The old "San Benardino" graphic has been corrected...

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/berdoo.jpg (http://www.cgfstore.org/)

And I like the revised banner reflecting Gene's preferred method of referring to the license...

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/ltc.jpg (https://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative.html)

rob474
08-18-2011, 9:07 PM
did you want me to contact you if i do apply or before i apply? i will be making donations very soon i do feel this is a important cause.
plus thank you very much for the quick responce and friendly welcome
thank
rob

rob474
08-18-2011, 9:12 PM
i will start letting people that i know are interested in this about this site and see if i can get them to contribute. anything i can do to help the cause
thank you
rob

Saym14
08-18-2011, 9:43 PM
I just wish it was this EASY in LA county!!!!

glock21fan
08-21-2011, 6:23 PM
Ok I want to apply for my permit in san bernardino county. I live in the sheriff jurisdiction so I will be applying at the headquarters.

here are my questions

What makes good cause

do they care about credit

I have a almost 3 year old speeding ticket that was paid not contested

I understand they talk to neighbors, what if I dont want the gangbangers 3 doors down to know im carrying a weapon

and they want to know contact with law enforcement...Ive been in security I do have a EXPOSED permit for work. I have made arrests but cant remember every time ive had contact with law enforcement.

Please give some input I want to know what the odds are before I throw money at this.

thank you

rob474
08-21-2011, 7:39 PM
these are good question^^^^^^^^^^^^ i would be interested myself
now i live in rancho cucamonga does anyone know where i need to go to apply
thank you
rob

PsychGuy274
08-21-2011, 8:49 PM
Ok I want to apply for my permit in san bernardino county. I live in the sheriff jurisdiction so I will be applying at the headquarters.

here are my questions

What makes good cause

do they care about credit

I have a almost 3 year old speeding ticket that was paid not contested

I understand they talk to neighbors, what if I dont want the gangbangers 3 doors down to know im carrying a weapon

and they want to know contact with law enforcement...Ive been in security I do have a EXPOSED permit for work. I have made arrests but cant remember every time ive had contact with law enforcement.

Please give some input I want to know what the odds are before I throw money at this.

thank you

1) Nothing specifically makes 'good cause.' The CS Penal Code only states '...to establish that good cause exists.' That's why we are 'may issue' which means it's up tot he Sheriff's discretion whether you have 'good cause' to carry a concealed handgun or not.

2) To the best of my knowledge they do not check financial history. Either on the state (CA DOJ) or county (Sheriff) level. Some Sheriffs might require it, but it's illegal for them to do so. SBC does not. Either way, a speeding ticket will not disqualify you.

3) SBSD requires three contacts to provide 'character references' in the form of letters and four contacts for them to call and ask questions about you. These are illegal requirements, but they still require them. I'm working directly with CGF on fixing this.

4) When they say 'contact with law enforcement' they want to know if you've been stopped, detained, arrested, questioned, etc. Working with LE doesn't fall under that. Example: I myself used to work for a LEA, but outside of work and prior to employment I never had contact with law enforcement. Get it?

5) Odds are good for San Bernardino in general. They typically take 'For self defense' as good cause. My prediction is that if you apply, you'll get the permit. The only thing is that they have a lot of illegal requirements. If you're willing to deal with that, then apply. If not, then wait until further notice in this thread.

If you have any other questions, send me a PM.

PsychGuy274
08-21-2011, 8:50 PM
these are good question^^^^^^^^^^^^ i would be interested myself
now i live in rancho cucamonga does anyone know where i need to go to apply
thank you
rob

You apply to San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office.

rob474
08-21-2011, 9:07 PM
You apply to San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office.

thank you psychguy274
thanks
rob

PsychGuy274
08-21-2011, 9:10 PM
thank you psychguy274
thanks
rob

No prob, I always sling love out to my brothers in Rancho. I was born and raised there. I just recently moved out to Colorado. Send me a PM if you need anymore info about applying. I'm working directly with CGF on SBC.

WASR10
08-21-2011, 9:41 PM
I appreciate this thread. And you, PsychGuy274. I am taking the 16 hours required class this September and plan to apply for the CCW (or LTC, if you prefer) immdiately following. I have also been in contact with http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/ which has been a wealth of info.

I wonder, are they good to take advice from? They have a lot to say about California concealed carry.

Anyway, my 2nd planned carry gun should be out of jail in a few days and I am excited to begin the process.

God Bless.

J.

PsychGuy274
08-21-2011, 9:59 PM
I appreciate this thread. And you, PsychGuy274. I am taking the 16 hours required class this September and plan to apply for the CCW (or LTC, if you prefer) immdiately following. I have also been in contact with http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/ which has been a wealth of info.

I wonder, are they good to take advice from? They have a lot to say about California concealed carry.

Anyway, my 2nd planned carry gun should be out of jail in a few days and I am excited to begin the process.

God Bless.

J.

There's some drama between that site and this site. I don't really want to get into it, but whatever gets you a LTC is your best bet IMHO.

If you have questions just PM me.

rob474
08-21-2011, 10:57 PM
ok where can we take that class i didn't realize we need to take a 16 hour class
thank you
rob

MatrixCPA
08-21-2011, 11:05 PM
New to the forum - hi. :)

If I have completed PC832 and Lvl II reserve officer training (admittedly 20 years ago) with SBC sheriff, do I still need the new license class? My thought would be that I do both because the training was *cough* when I was much younger and the application states a "specified course". However, there's no harm is asking for a few other opinions.

Knauga
08-22-2011, 7:49 AM
I appreciate this thread. And you, PsychGuy274. I am taking the 16 hours required class this September and plan to apply for the CCW (or LTC, if you prefer) immdiately following. I have also been in contact with http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/ which has been a wealth of info.


DO NOT TAKE ANY CLASS PRIOR TO APPLYING. SBSD has their own class, it is the only one they accept. It is 8 hours, used to be 4ish and $25.

If you have a desire to take other classes for information or shooting training, that is fine, but don't do it and think that it will count for anything with SBSD.

ETA, Billy Jack (AKA Preston Guillory concealedcarry.com) IS a wealth of information, not so much for San Bernardino County. If you live in an area that does not issue or won't without a fight he is a great source of information on proper tactics in documenting your application and documenting other good cause that has worked in that jurisdiction. In this case you would be going in with a baseball bat ready to fight when all you really need is to ask for the application.

Knauga
08-22-2011, 7:57 AM
My answers in bold

Ok I want to apply for my permit in san bernardino county. I live in the sheriff jurisdiction so I will be applying at the headquarters.

here are my questions

What makes good cause Personal Protection

do they care about credit No

I have a almost 3 year old speeding ticket that was paid not contested Not an issue

I understand they talk to neighbors, what if I dont want the gangbangers 3 doors down to know im carrying a weapon I would discuss this with them during the interview.

and they want to know contact with law enforcement...Ive been in security I do have a EXPOSED permit for work. I have made arrests but cant remember every time ive had contact with law enforcement. Ironically this will probably cause you the most grief. Not the contact with law enforcement, the working security. Just point out that you have no intention of using the CCW for employment purposes. They will make you sign a piece of paper to that effect anyway. In the past people have been denied outright if they thought that the license was going to be used at work and had to fight them to get them to issue.

Please give some input I want to know what the odds are before I throw money at this.

thank you

The process is slow and fairly invasive. I would like to see that changed. They do issue as long as you jump through the hoops and you don't have any skeletons hanging around in your closet.

Knauga
08-22-2011, 7:58 AM
New to the forum - hi. :)

If I have completed PC832 and Lvl II reserve officer training (admittedly 20 years ago) with SBC sheriff, do I still need the new license class? My thought would be that I do both because the training was *cough* when I was much younger and the application states a "specified course". However, there's no harm is asking for a few other opinions.

They will require you to take their class.

Knauga
08-22-2011, 8:06 AM
And don't forget... SBC needs more sponsors.
We're currently sitting on only FOUR individual sponsors for a total of $600... and $300 of that $600 was my contribution (and will likely be sending a similar contrib next spring).

We've got no vendor sponsors yet.

So while some counties are sitting on having met or exceeded their goals, we're not even close... at $600 of a total of $3600 needed.

So spread the word and let's get some people opening their wallets to actually do something to help further our goals.
Laws don't change themselves, and lawyers aren't cheap!

What it this? I donate to CGF through payroll deduction. How does one become a sponsor?

WASR10
08-22-2011, 8:32 AM
DO NOT TAKE ANY CLASS PRIOR TO APPLYING. SBSD has their own class, it is the only one they accept. It is 8 hours, used to be 4ish and $25.

Wow, you just saved me $200, thanks! I have read the requirement for the class in the application process, then came across the class at Turner's. I will just begin the process then and take what class the SD presents.


Glad you guys are here.

Cokebottle
08-22-2011, 5:33 PM
What it this? I donate to CGF through payroll deduction. How does one become a sponsor?
Follow the link(s) on the two images in my signature ;)

The "long one" is the general CGF LTC site, and the SBDO is the direct link to the sponsorship page.

Sponsorship is listed as $100, but of course you can pay more (I went $300 and will likely do the same next spring, it's my way of saying f-u to Obama and spending part of my "making work pay credit" on something that he hates).

MatrixCPA
08-22-2011, 7:57 PM
They will require you to take their class.

I figured that would be the case. No big deal. At least they don't charge much for it.

MatrixCPA
08-23-2011, 10:53 PM
Donated

M.Orozco
08-24-2011, 12:45 PM
I received my ccw from SBSO last week.

I started the process the first week of December of 2010. I went to SBSO's HQ's at 655 E. Third St. San Bernardino, Ca. 92415 Tel. (909) 387-3750 to pick up a ccw app. Receptionist asked for my ID and asked if I had lived in SB County for more than a year. I said yes. She advised that I needed to apply with the PD since I lived in a city that had one and then gave me the green ccw packet/application.

In my process I actually didn't apply with the PD. I wrote the CoP a letter asking him to write me a denial letter so that I may continue the process with SBSO. It took a little over a month but I finally got what I requested. I am extremely appreciative of what the CoP did for me. Saved me money and I'm sure some time.

I then proceeded with the SBSO app. You must use the packet they issue. It is green in color, numbered, time and date stamped as well.

I filled out the forms had my references and letters completed by the second week of February. I called SBSO's Employee Services Division for my interview and was scheduled for a May 3rd. Had a few months of a wait.

Interview date finally came around. I went in and my firearms were inspected. I filled out some additional paperwork and questionnaire (don't think it was 100) and talked to the investigator. We went over some of the questions in the app, my GC statement signed some papers and it was over. (FYI, my GC statement was 4 paragraphs long. My investigator crossed all but that last paragraph out. I'm sure most of you in SB County can figure what it said). Investigator advised to tell my references to expect something from them within 2 weeks (I was called by 3 of my references on Friday the 6th and they told me they had received info asking questions about me...wow, 3 days later! That was quick). I then went to take a picture and do the live scan down the hall. Returned the paperwork from livescan back to the ccw office. I was then given information and paperwork about the ccw range training course. She said I would be contacted by phone in a few weeks since they did not have one scheduled at the time. The entire process of the interview was painless and not long at all. I believe I was in and out in under an hour. SBSO staff is very professional and helpful.

I was contacted about 2 weeks later and scheduled a range day of June 18th. I went to the class which was an 8 hour course. 18000 Institution Rd. Devore, Ca. 92407 is the address for the range. Very informative if you've never been around or handled any type of firearm. Talked about some laws and safety. Most of us in the class brought our own lunch so we wouldn't stay longer. At the end of class portion we went over to the range and shot a total of 12 rounds per firearm at 7 yards. Again, the class was painless and the staff was great and fun. This is the only course SB County will accept.

Received my permit on the 15th of August. As you can see, it took some time. Be patient if you choose to apply.

Spent $252 not including ammo or firearm. 3 different money orders. One for $112 another for $110 (both due at the time of your interview) and the last for $30 due at the range.

Time from start to finish 9 months.

All in all a painless process. Just prepare to be patient!

Knauga
08-24-2011, 8:58 PM
When I did mine, I went to Staples and bought cheap green printer paper and used on online PDF file to fill out the application. If I had to do it by hand, I would have been dead, I am a child of the keyboard and type much better than I write ;)

Congrats and start packing! :D

rob474
08-24-2011, 9:50 PM
great info i will be doing the same very soon thanks M.Orozco for the write up
good info do you mine if i pm you with any question i might have
thank you
rob

M.Orozco
08-24-2011, 11:22 PM
When I did mine, I went to Staples and bought cheap green printer paper and used on online PDF file to fill out the application. If I had to do it by hand, I would have been dead, I am a child of the keyboard and type much better than I write ;)

Congrats and start packing! :D

I went to kinkos/fedex and printed a second copy in the same color just in case I screwed some of my paperwork up. I wanted to type it up but I had already finished writing everything in so I just turned it in. I'm glad my penmanship isn't too shabby.

Oh and thanks! Been packing for over a week now.

WASR10
08-25-2011, 3:34 PM
Thanks for the info M.Orozco. The process on paper seems so daunting, I am glad to hear first hand experiences such as this.

PsychGuy274
08-25-2011, 4:58 PM
I received my ccw from SBSO last week.

I started the process the first week of December of 2010. I went to SBSO's HQ's at 655 E. Third St. San Bernardino, Ca. 92415 Tel. (909) 387-3750 to pick up a ccw app. Receptionist asked for my ID and asked if I had lived in SB County for more than a year. I said yes. She advised that I needed to apply with the PD since I lived in a city that had one and then gave me the green ccw packet/application.

In my process I actually didn't apply with the PD. I wrote the CoP a letter asking him to write me a denial letter so that I may continue the process with SBSO. It took a little over a month but I finally got what I requested. I am extremely appreciative of what the CoP did for me. Saved me money and I'm sure some time.

I then proceeded with the SBSO app. You must use the packet they issue. It is green in color, numbered, time and date stamped as well.

I filled out the forms had my references and letters completed by the second week of February. I called SBSO's Employee Services Division for my interview and was scheduled for a May 3rd. Had a few months of a wait.

Interview date finally came around. I went in and my firearms were inspected. I filled out some additional paperwork and questionnaire (don't think it was 100) and talked to the investigator. We went over some of the questions in the app, my GC statement signed some papers and it was over. (FYI, my GC statement was 4 paragraphs long. My investigator crossed all but that last paragraph out. I'm sure most of you in SB County can figure what it said). Investigator advised to tell my references to expect something from them within 2 weeks (I was called by 3 of my references on Friday the 6th and they told me they had received info asking questions about me...wow, 3 days later! That was quick). I then went to take a picture and do the live scan down the hall. Returned the paperwork from livescan back to the ccw office. I was then given information and paperwork about the ccw range training course. She said I would be contacted by phone in a few weeks since they did not have one scheduled at the time. The entire process of the interview was painless and not long at all. I believe I was in and out in under an hour. SBSO staff is very professional and helpful.

I was contacted about 2 weeks later and scheduled a range day of June 18th. I went to the class which was an 8 hour course. 18000 Institution Rd. Devore, Ca. 92407 is the address for the range. Very informative if you've never been around or handled any type of firearm. Talked about some laws and safety. Most of us in the class brought our own lunch so we wouldn't stay longer. At the end of class portion we went over to the range and shot a total of 12 rounds per firearm at 7 yards. Again, the class was painless and the staff was great and fun. This is the only course SB County will accept.

Received my permit on the 15th of August. As you can see, it took some time. Be patient if you choose to apply.

Spent $252 not including ammo or firearm. 3 different money orders. One for $112 another for $110 (both due at the time of your interview) and the last for $30 due at the range.

Time from start to finish 9 months.

All in all a painless process. Just prepare to be patient!

A lot of the things they required from you (e.g. extra paperwork, fees, references, etc) are actually illegal for them to require, but they do anyways.

jaymz
08-25-2011, 5:19 PM
A lot of the things they required from you (e.g. extra paperwork, fees, references, etc) are actually illegal for them to require, but they do anyways.

I wonder if it would be wise to respectfully decline to provide the illegal requirements. What would happen if you were to get denied because you politely declined to comply with said illegal requirements?

PsychGuy274
08-25-2011, 5:35 PM
I wonder if it would be wise to respectfully decline to provide the illegal requirements. What would happen if you were to get denied because you politely declined to comply with said illegal requirements?

That'd be interesting to do with a copy of the CA Penal Code by your side.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't actually want a CCW and just want to make a point, go for it. If you actually want a CCW, not such a good idea.

Either way, these requirement won't be in place for much longer.

jaymz
08-25-2011, 7:01 PM
I really want it, but I don't want to deal with getting reference letters, employer/neighbor interviews etc. I think I may apply and instead of providing certain things, I'll put a "This page intentionally left blank per PCxxx" or something to that effect. I'm torn. Mostly have an issue with the employer interview. Not very gun
friendly in the HR Dept.

The Shadow
08-25-2011, 7:40 PM
Quite frankly, I don't care if some LEAs are voluntarily "Shall Issue". When will we get "Shall Issue" mandated by law ?

The point is, even if they have opted to freely issue, you still have to jump through their hoops, and are subject to their whims, tantrums, and, as is the case of Orange county, change of management.

I'm inclined to apply to San Bernardino and get rejected because I won't jump through their unlawful hoops. In other words, I would willingly stare them down and cast down the gauntlet after I smack them across the face with it.

I'll think about it and get back to you on it.

JuzDuky
08-26-2011, 3:38 PM
What would happen if you were to get denied because you politely declined to comply with said illegal requirements?

For starters, this right here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=459984&highlight=rossow) would happen :chris:

MatrixCPA
08-29-2011, 6:29 PM
Just FYI, I spoke to a rep at Ammo Brothers (Ontario) and he mentioned a friend who just got his packet and called for an interview appointment. He was told that they had no openings until the middle of next year and they'd put him on a waiting list. When they got to the point they could schedule out far enough, they'd call him.

Knauga
08-30-2011, 8:17 AM
Just FYI, I spoke to a rep at Ammo Brothers (Ontario) and he mentioned a friend who just got his packet and called for an interview appointment. He was told that they had no openings until the middle of next year and they'd put him on a waiting list. When they got to the point they could schedule out far enough, they'd call him.

Yup, they have had to cut down their staff processing CCW's due to budget cuts. They have said their priorities are 1) Renewals (about 1400/year) 2) New applications (about 300 per year) 3) Modifications.

I think if they scaled back their background investigation procedures to be something in line with the rest of the world, they could probably process many more applications with a minimal staff. I don't see the necessity to contact employers, do neighborhood checks talking to your neighbors about your personal business, or calling and writing references. A standard FBI/DOJ background investigation based on your fingerprints should be sufficient. If you don't have any red flags pop you should be good to go.

ivsamhell
08-30-2011, 9:13 AM
Just FYI, I spoke to a rep at Ammo Brothers (Ontario) and he mentioned a friend who just got his packet and called for an interview appointment. He was told that they had no openings until the middle of next year and they'd put him on a waiting list. When they got to the point they could schedule out far enough, they'd call him.

this is more messed up than any policies. So its impossible to obtain a permit in the next year then.

MatrixCPA
08-30-2011, 11:44 AM
this is more messed up than any policies. So its impossible to obtain a permit in the next year then.

What this means is that if you want to start the process, do it now. Even if the policies are changed due to efforts here and elsewhere, you're still closer to the front of the line. Plus, if things are made easier/quicker, then the line will only get longer.

Cokebottle
08-30-2011, 5:34 PM
this is more messed up than any policies. So its impossible to obtain a permit in the next year then.
And 37,000 "non violent" felons are being released next month.

Non Violent?

GTA, burglary, robbery.....

The Shadow
08-31-2011, 8:56 AM
What this means is that if you want to start the process, do it now. Even if the policies are changed due to efforts here and elsewhere, you're still closer to the front of the line. Plus, if things are made easier/quicker, then the line will only get longer.

Which is why I think CaDOJ should be the issuing authority when Cali goes shall issue. If it stays the way it is, even though police and sheriff's departments may be required to issue, the manpower they put in place to satisfy the law will be at their discretion.

WASR10
09-02-2011, 3:18 PM
Picked up my application from SBSO's HQ today. Called to schedule an interview but got voice mail. Received call back from SO and notified that interviews will be scheduled for next year at a later date and a return call will come to set appointment. Now to start compiling all the information they want. I hope I can remember every place I've lived, and every job I've had.

Knauga
09-03-2011, 9:06 AM
Picked up my application from SBSO's HQ today. Called to schedule an interview but got voice mail. Received call back from SO and notified that interviews will be scheduled for next year at a later date and a return call will come to set appointment. Now to start compiling all the information they want. I hope I can remember every place I've lived, and every job I've had.

Yup PITA, but if you don't remember exact addresses and exact details, just put down as much as you remember.

ki6ktg
09-06-2011, 8:05 PM
Hello,

Does anyone know if it is still a requirement to be San Bernardino resident for a year prior to applying for a ccw?

I have lived here for nine months now, and have a great GC. I will be applying within the next ten days.

Any help is welcomed

PsychGuy274
09-07-2011, 3:01 AM
Hello,

Does anyone know if it is still a requirement to be San Bernardino resident for a year prior to applying for a ccw?

I have lived here for nine months now, and have a great GC. I will be applying within the next ten days.

Any help is welcomed

Yes, and it'
s illegal for them to require that, but it's still there.

Cokebottle
09-07-2011, 5:21 PM
But don't worry.... you've been here for 9 months, it'll be at least another 6 before your interview.

desertmedic
09-21-2011, 10:38 AM
Hello all... I recently heard that San Berdoo County is denying the CCW carry of 1911 style pistols. Is this in fact true??

thenodnarb
09-21-2011, 11:11 AM
I've heard rumors that only DAO pistols are allowed. Others have told me that was FUD. Sorry I can't be of any help.

Calplinker
09-21-2011, 11:38 AM
There we numerous 1911 style pistols in the range class I attended a year ago.

Can't imagine they'd make such a rule.

Have you called Joyce to ask? 30 seconds out of your life and you'll have your answer.

Wherryj
09-21-2011, 1:07 PM
What if you're self employed as I am. Do they interview me twice? :D

I just hope that your boss doesn't give a bad report...

Knauga
09-21-2011, 1:43 PM
Hello all... I recently heard that San Berdoo County is denying the CCW carry of 1911 style pistols. Is this in fact true??

I've got a 1911 on mine.

Cokebottle
09-21-2011, 5:09 PM
Complete FUD.

This has been coming from one of the local instructors.
He's a Glock fan... yet it could be argued that the 1911 in condition-1 is in fact safer than the Glock.

It's been discussed... I think the topic first came up late spring.

And of course, the person who posted the thread refused to "out" the instructor... but it was NOT the SBSD LTC instructor.

rob474
10-06-2011, 7:18 AM
well i started the ball rolling they said they are booked till january and won't be doing interveiws till possibly june i hope this is not true

Bob Hostetter
10-06-2011, 8:41 AM
I keep hearing mention of needing to raise funds to use to get the San Bernardino process more streamlined and in accordance with state law. I am willing to organize a fund raising shooting event that should be able to raise somewhere around $3000-5000 and will donate all of it to the cause if it goes to the San Bernardino effort. I would also need some Calguns members to help out. If there is an interest in doing this, AND it will make a difference, interested parties need to get together and start working on it.

rob474
10-06-2011, 5:43 PM
heck i will help out if it will help the process

winnre
10-10-2011, 5:45 PM
One thing San Bernardino can use is a revamp of their forms. They look like copies of third generation faxes. They need to be retyped and saved as a pdf file at best.

rob474
10-11-2011, 7:00 PM
how long has most people waited for there interveiw i am just wondering if they say not till next year but call you in a lot earlier?

Steveo8
10-31-2011, 10:13 AM
Update?

Icypu
11-20-2011, 9:06 AM
I wanted to know who to ask about the question of commercial or restricted LTC. Does SBSD issue restricted permits to those who work in SB county? I spend about half my day in Chino Hills where I have been working for 3 years, so I was wondering if I could get a restricted or temporary permit. My good cause would remain the same.

Cokebottle
11-20-2011, 9:36 AM
I wanted to know who to ask about the question of commercial or restricted LTC. Does SBSD issue restricted permits to those who work in SB county? I spend about half my day in Chino Hills where I have been working for 3 years, so I was wondering if I could get a restricted or temporary permit. My good cause would remain the same.
License must be issued by the county of residence.

The law used to allow issuance from any county in the state, but certain pro-2A Sheriffs were found to be issuing permits to residents from all over the state even if they had no residence or business within that county, so the state cracked down and amended the law.

Must be issued by the county (or city, city Police Chief does have legal authority to issue) of residence, and if you move, the license becomes invalid in 30 (perhaps 90?) days.

WASR10
11-23-2011, 3:26 PM
Received a call this afternoon and my interview is set for late January. I have been waiting since September. I didn't expect to hear from them, much less get a date this early.

Any suggestions or advice on the good cause statement and interview will be well appreciated, thanks!

Cokebottle
11-23-2011, 6:33 PM
Just be honest. Don't let the interviewer "discover" anything... only confirm.
No skeletons in your closet and you will get your permit.

rob474
12-01-2011, 5:59 PM
well i got my call today i have a interveiw date it took alittle over a month for it but it happen so i will give updates when it is over:D

WASR10
12-02-2011, 9:36 AM
well i got my call today i have a interveiw date it took alittle over a month for it but it happen so i will give updates when it is over:D

Good Luck!!

astroboy
12-12-2011, 9:06 AM
I have done a lot of reading as to how to obtain
a CCW in San Bernardino. With that, I thought that
I was good to go. No negative records of any kind.
I have been a resident of San Bernardino county for
four years now, payed my taxes all the time and has
never had any negative encounter with any LEO.

I called SBCSD Employee Services Division this morning...

...found out that I am not eligible to apply for LTC since
I am not a US citizen. I was really taken aback and am
feeling really bad. For I didn't know that being a US citizen
is one of the requirement. I have never read anything
pertaining to being a US citizen as a requirement.

I respect their decision and I understand that I do not have
as much right as a US citizen. But I was hoping that being a
legal immigrant with a permanent resident card is enough.

It's one of those things that you have already set your mind
for, only to find out that it can't be done.


:(

gose
12-12-2011, 9:49 AM
I have done a lot of reading as to how to obtain
a CCW in San Bernardino. With that, I thought that
I was good to go. No negative records of any kind.
I have been a resident of San Bernardino county for
four years now, payed my taxes all the time and has
never had any negative encounter with any LEO.
I called SBCSD Employee Services Division this morning...
...found out that I am not eligible to apply for LTC since
I am not a US citizen. I was really taken aback and am
feeling really bad. For I didn't know that being a US citizen
is one of the requirement. I have never read anything
pertaining to being a US citizen as a requirement.
I respect their decision and I understand that I do not have
as much right as a US citizen. But I was hoping that being a
legal immigrant with a permanent resident card is enough.
It's one of those things that you have already set your mind
for, only to find out that it can't be done.
:(

ACLU filed suit in Kentucy a few years ago
www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-ctmemo.pdf
and KY got smacked down by a federal judge.
www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-order.pdf

ACLU recently filed a similar suit in SD and won, though I cant find any documents for that case (http://madvilletimes.com/2011/02/judge-schreier-sides-with-aclu-sd-on-discriminatory-gun-law/)

ETAL here's the docket: http://ia700408.us.archive.org/34/items/gov.uscourts.sdd.47987/gov.uscourts.sdd.47987.docket.html


AFAIK, those were filed and handled by local ACLU chapters, so might not be able to get them to handle this case, but I'd still guess that this would be a slamdunk case, potentially slamdunk enough to be solvable without going to court...

astroboy
12-12-2011, 10:24 AM
.


ACLU filed suit in Kentucy a few years ago
www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-ctmemo.pdf (http://www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-ctmemo.pdf)
and KY got smacked down by a federal judge.
www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-order.pdf (http://www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-order.pdf)

ACLU recently filed a similar suit in SD and won, though I cant find any documents for that case (http://madvilletimes.com/2011/02/judge-schreier-sides-with-aclu-sd-on-discriminatory-gun-law/)

ETAL here's the docket: http://ia700408.us.archive.org/34/items/gov.uscourts.sdd.47987/gov.uscourts.sdd.47987.docket.html


AFAIK, those were filed and handled by local ACLU chapters, so might not be able to get them to handle this case, but I'd still guess that this would be a slamdunk case, potentially slamdunk enough to be solvable without going to court...



I am not really familiar how legal stuffs like this works. Does this mean I
can fight them and actually get a shot at getting my CCW/LTC? Looking
at the docket, it took around 7 months before they got a decision. If I
decide to go to court, it will take time and money. I just to know about
my chance. Ruling like this applies only PER STATE right? Or does will
decision apply to me/CA as well?

I was hoping that the person who answered the phone when I made the
phone call earlier made a mistake, I had her double check the info and
was told that I have to be a natural born or at least a naturalized citizen
before I apply.

I cannot believe that I overlooked this requirement. AFAIK, I saw it
somewhere that even a permanent resident is eligible to apply. I had
to call, for one of their requirement is to give them a copy of my birth
certificate or naturalization papers. Which puzzled me, why would they
want that, unless US citizenship is a requirement. Alas, when I called,
that's when i found out. I guess it was natural to assume that all
applicants are US citizens so they didn't have to write down that
requirement anymore.





(I know that some people will say that I should just apply for citizenship
and not expect the same rights being just a permanent resident. I understand
that. I just want to look at my options right now. Besides, I am not eligible to become
a citizen yet.)



.

gose
12-12-2011, 10:34 AM
.
I am not really familiar how legal stuffs like this works. Does this mean I
can fight them and actually get a shot at getting my CCW/LTC? Looking
at the docket, it took around 7 months before they got a decision. If I
decide to go to court, it will take time and money. I just to know about
my chance. Ruling like this applies only PER STATE right? Or does will
decision apply to me/CA as well?
I was hoping that the person who answered the phone when I made the
phone call earlier made a mistake, I had her double check the info and
was told that I have to be a natural born or at least a naturalized citizen
before I apply.
I cannot believe that I overlooked this requirement. AFAIK, I saw it
somewhere that even a permanent resident is eligible to apply. I had
to call, for one of their requirement is to give them a copy of my birth
certificate or naturalization papers. Which puzzled me, why would they
want that, unless US citizenship is a requirement. Alas, when I called,
that's when i found out. I guess it was natural to assume that all
applicants are US citizens so they didn't have to write down that
requirement anymore.
(I know that some people will say that I should just apply for citizenship
and not expect the same rights being just a permanent resident. I understand
that. I just want to look at my options right now. Besides, I am not eligible to become
a citizen yet.)
.


Yeah, those are district court decisions and have no real bearing in California. However, the fact that two different federal judges have rules against similar restrictions and the fact that not many other counties (if any) have similar restrictions might be enough to convince them...

astroboy
12-12-2011, 10:48 AM
Yeah, those are district court decisions and have no real bearing in California. However, the fact that two different federal judges have rules against similar restrictions and the fact that not many other counties (if any) have similar restrictions might be enough to convince them...



Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! I will have to sit and think about
my next step them. Whether I still pursue for my application or take some
other action. I am really not that excited to take them to court, for putting
in time and money in court does not guarantee a positive result.

I am still shaking my head about this. I was set into applying, only to find
out the last minute that I cannot. This really blows.

Oh well.

:shrug:

sexytyranno
12-12-2011, 11:24 AM
@astroboy: First off, I feel for you, and I wish you the best of luck in this case.

As for the current legal issue at hand, I strongly advise you to play your cards close, and not disclose too much information on this forum. You do NOT want to show your opponents your cards.

I am not a lawyer, but as for my advise on the situation at hand, as @gose said, you might have a case.

Your best bet is to not say anything further here about this specific issue (you don't want to show the opponent your cards!), and contact CalGuns Foundation for advise (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/cgf-hotline.html). They may be willing to help you out (either directly or refer you to a trusted legal team), or they may be able to offer you advice on where to go next.

Seriously, contact CGF! It'll probably be the easiest route to get quick and reliable advise on this matter.

If they are unable to assist you in some capacity (very unlikely, from what I've heard), you should then try contacting the American Civil Liberties Union (http://www.aclu.org/) or the Second Amendment Foundation (http://www.saf.org/), both of which may also be of assistance in your case.

astroboy
12-12-2011, 11:56 AM
@astroboy: First off, I feel for you, and I wish you the best of luck in this case.

As for the current legal issue at hand, I strongly advise you to play your cards close, and not disclose too much information on this forum. You do NOT want to show your opponents your cards.

I am not a lawyer, but as for my advise on the situation at hand, as @gose said, you might have a case.

Your best bet is to not say anything further here about this specific issue (you don't want to show the opponent your cards!), and contact CalGuns Foundation for advise (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/cgf-hotline.html). They may be willing to help you out (either directly or refer you to a trusted legal team), or they may be able to offer you advice on where to go next.

Seriously, contact CGF! It'll probably be the easiest route to get quick and reliable advise on this matter.

If they are unable to assist you in some capacity (very unlikely, from what I've heard), you should then try contacting the American Civil Liberties Union (http://www.aclu.org/) or the Second Amendment Foundation (http://www.saf.org/), both of which may also be of assistance in your case.


Thank you, I really appreciate your advice. I will
look at my options and see what I can do.

DocClark340
12-13-2011, 1:13 PM
a good link.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/24-carryappguide.html

DocClark340
12-13-2011, 1:27 PM
It’s taken me about 4-1/2 months to get mine. The longest wait was for the CCW class after the interview (about 6-7 weeks). And I am here to tell you what, as an instructor and shooting enthusiast that SBD class was one of the most interactive and informational class about firearms laws and justifications I have been to in a long time. Ya there was the usual dog and pony about gun safety bla, bla ,bla, but I walked out of there with a new mind set on the implications (legal and non-legal) about being involved in a gun fight. Getting sued is no joke even if it is a clean shoot.
If you’re going to conceal carry read up!! Not just about the gear but lawyers and insurance to cover you’re a** if it comes down to brass tacks……. Sitting in a jail cell is no time to shop for a lawyer to back you up and get you home to your family.

:facepalm::gene::gene::facepalm:

jaymz
12-13-2011, 6:24 PM
Thank you, I really appreciate your advice. I will
look at my options and see what I can do.

You may want to make sure you are contacting the correct people as well. Your location doesn't jive with the location of the people you contacted in regards to an LTC.

astroboy
12-13-2011, 6:54 PM
It’s taken me about 4-1/2 months to get mine. The longest wait was for the CCW class after the interview (about 6-7 weeks). And I am here to tell you what, as an instructor and shooting enthusiast that SBD class was one of the most interactive and informational class about firearms laws and justifications I have been to in a long time. Ya there was the usual dog and pony about gun safety bla, bla ,bla, but I walked out of there with a new mind set on the implications (legal and non-legal) about being involved in a gun fight. Getting sued is no joke even if it is a clean shoot.
If you’re going to conceal carry read up!! Not just about the gear but lawyers and insurance to cover you’re a** if it comes down to brass tacks……. Sitting in a jail cell is no time to shop for a lawyer to back you up and get you home to your family.

:facepalm::gene::gene::facepalm:


That's what I keep telling myself now. Maybe there is a reason why
i wasn't allowed to apply. I know at the back of my head that I am
just sour graping though,haha! But I agree with you, getting into a
situation wherein you have to draw your weapon and shoot someone
is no joke, you will definitely have to deal with the law. Whether you
are on the right or not.

You may want to make sure you are contacting the correct people as well. Your location doesn't jive with the location of the people you contacted in regards to an LTC.

I haven't really contacted anyone yet. As of now, I am just hoping that
the lady who I spoke to on the phone gave me the wrong info. That one
day I will find out that I am actually eligible to apply.

Cokebottle
12-13-2011, 7:34 PM
I haven't really contacted anyone yet. As of now, I am just hoping that
the lady who I spoke to on the phone gave me the wrong info. That one
day I will find out that I am actually eligible to apply.
Well, if that's the case, then I would suggest getting in touch with the people what will (or won't) actually issue your permit.

Are you a resident of LA or SD?
If LA, at the present time... don't bother.
San Diego isn't much more promising.

But as to your citizenship status... are you here on a green card, or are you on a nonresident visa?
If a nonresident, you can't even possess a firearm without a hunting license, and I can't see any county issuing under that condition.
If you are on a green card, I don't see why you would be denied on generalities.

astroboy
12-14-2011, 12:01 AM
Well, if that's the case, then I would suggest getting in touch with the people what will (or won't) actually issue your permit.

Are you a resident of LA or SD?
If LA, at the present time... don't bother.
San Diego isn't much more promising.

But as to your citizenship status... are you here on a green card, or are you on a nonresident visa?
If a nonresident, you can't even possess a firearm without a hunting license, and I can't see any county issuing under that condition.
If you are on a green card, I don't see why you would be denied on generalities.


I have already sent PMs to Gray, bwiese and hoffmang. I am currently
residing in San Bernardino County. I have a green card and have been
a resident of SBC for a couple of years. I did some reading prior to my
application, I saw that US citizenship was not listed as a requirement.

After more research, I have finally decided to apply. Only to be told that
they only issue LTC to US citizens. I have to present either a US birth
certificate or my naturalization papers. And I have neither. If they posted
or had I known that a US citizenship was a requirement. I would not even
try to apply at all.

Gray Peterson
12-14-2011, 12:05 AM
I have already sent PMs to Gray, bwiese and hoffmang. I am currently
residing in San Bernardino County. I have a green card and have been
a resident of SBC for a couple of years. I did some reading prior to my
application, I saw that US citizenship was not listed as a requirement.

After more research, I have finally decided to apply. Only to be told that
they only issue LTC to US citizens. I have to present either a US birth
certificate or my naturalization papers. And I have neither. If they posted
or had I known that a US citizenship was a requirement. I would not even
try to apply at all.

Sorry for the delay. Please email bcombs AT calgunsfoundation.org rather than PMing us or send it to ccw AT calgunsfoundation.org with an explanation as to what's going on so you can get a better reply back.

astroboy
12-14-2011, 12:48 AM
Sorry for the delay. Please email bcombs AT calgunsfoundation.org rather than PMing us or send it to ccw AT calgunsfoundation.org with an explanation as to what's going on so you can get a better reply back.


Will do. Thank you sir.

joea
12-18-2011, 1:35 PM
My brother just got his CCW last week. I gave him lots of info/links from Calguns. Thanks to all here fighting the fight.

CCW Thanks
From:
To:
Date:Fri, Dec 16, 2011 4:47 pm

Want to send a special "Thank You" to all my friends who helped me get through the California BS law for the CCW permit.

I received it in the mail yesterday!

Sincerely yours,

A

Tru2logan
01-18-2012, 7:33 PM
Just wanted to update those getting ready to request interviews for San bernardino. I called yesterday and the earliest appointment available was July 17th.

I would like thanks all those who contribute, I have gained so much valuable information. I was hoping someone who recently (within the last year) has obtained their ccw can help me out with the best way to word my gc statement. Please pm me if you are willing. Thanks again.

WASR10
01-24-2012, 11:35 AM
I had my interview this morning. The deputy investigator was very pleasant to work with. I was there most of the morning as there were several applicants but it was a very smooth process. I am looking forward to the next step!

winnre
01-24-2012, 1:57 PM
Regarding the proof of citizenship, I have derived citizenship so there is no naturalization paper. I used my US passport and gave the investigators a good instructional trivia moment of ways to acquire citizenship.

rob474
01-24-2012, 10:33 PM
I had my interview this morning. The deputy investigator was very pleasant to work with. I was there most of the morning as there were several applicants but it was a very smooth process. I am looking forward to the next step!

great to hear did you sign up for your range time after the interveiw? i have mine coming up very soon :43:

WASR10
01-24-2012, 11:26 PM
great to hear did you sign up for your range time after the interveiw? i have mine coming up very soon :43:

No, she said they don't sign up for the class at the interview anymore. They gave me all the info I needed and will call to schedule later on. Good luck on your interview!

rob474
01-25-2012, 7:19 AM
probably do to the reason that can't charge you for the class till you are approved now. well thank you for the quick responce keep us update on how your process moves along i would like to see how quickly it moves along if you don't want to post here feel free to pm me
thank you
rob

roadtrip
01-25-2012, 9:55 AM
Not sure if I should start a new thread for this, but I'm curious about a few parts of the process. Can anyone that's gone through the process in San Bernardino County recently answer a few questions?

1) Do the 4 references (not the 3 letters) find out that you're applying for a CCW? I know and trust all of my references, but I'd rather keep my ccw as close to the vest as possible.

2) Has anyone had a neighborhood visit recently? Were your neighbors informed of the purpose of the inquiry? I live in a small condo complex, but I don't really know any of my neighbors all that well (although I'm always polite and friendly). Like others have mentioned, I'm not interested in them knowing that I'm applying.

3) Do they do an employer check even if your employer is not one of your references? I'm not too concerned about that, as I've already had a conversation with our CEO, but there are a few people in the company that I'm not comfortable knowing about the permit.

Thanks a bunch, folks. I'm looking forward to getting this process started...maybe I'll even have it in hand by 2015!

winnre
01-25-2012, 9:57 AM
1. Yes, they know. Mine were contacted as a follow up.
2. They told me they visited but no one knows me, I wonder how it went.
3. If they talked to my employer he can really keep secrets after all.

roadtrip
01-25-2012, 10:03 AM
Wow. So at a minimum, 8 people (including my wife) will know that I'm seeking a permit. I really appreciate that SB County makes it even remotely possible to obtain a permit, but having so many people know your business seems a little weird.

winnre
01-25-2012, 10:08 AM
And the folks they contacted that I gave for references? They asked THOSE people if they knew another person to recommend. So, maybe 16-24.

roadtrip
01-25-2012, 10:14 AM
No kidding?!! That's the first I'd heard of that. That is just WWAAAAAYYYYY invasive.

Cokebottle
01-25-2012, 5:07 PM
No kidding?!! That's the first I'd heard of that. That is just WWAAAAAYYYYY invasive.
+1, and the primary reason I have not applied.

44 homes in my condo complex and maybe 3 know that I own guns... I want to keep it that way.
SD says "We're discreet"
Right. How discreet is a deputy asking questions about you.

rob474
01-25-2012, 5:58 PM
well maybe we should go back to open carry if they are just going to tell everyone we are carryng any way shheesshhh

Cokebottle
01-25-2012, 6:07 PM
well maybe we should go back to open carry if they are just going to tell everyone we are carryng any way shheesshhh
Or CCW badges and bumper stickers! :banghead:

Tru2logan
02-08-2012, 9:43 PM
Updates?

Does anyone know if SB is falling in line with the GC initative? Also does anyone know if the silly 7 reference requirement will still be around in lets say 4 or 5 months?

nathan4610
02-09-2012, 6:19 PM
No changes to policy as of February 6th. Although they have increased the cost from $112 and $110, to $118 and $110.

I’m in the process of filling out the application and was wondering if any of you that have been thru the interview could answer a question?

On the part that reads "Have you ever been contacted, interviewed, questioned. or detained for investigation"

Would that include traffic stops/traffic citations?

TIA

WASR10
02-11-2012, 10:39 AM
I am not sure if they are asking for those types of interaction, based on the wording of the question. I went ahead and and provided a list of interactions that included two traffic accidents and two tickets, just to be as compliant as possible.

There is another question elsewhere in the application that asks you to list all traffic violations and accidents for the past five years, so you are going to divulge that info anyway.

I hope that helps!

winnre
02-13-2012, 1:44 PM
I doubt you will tell them anything they don't already know or can't find out. Me thinks it is an honesty test.

Cokebottle
02-14-2012, 7:51 PM
I doubt you will tell them anything they don't already know or can't find out. Me thinks it is an honesty test.
+1

The purpose of the application and interview is primarily verification of the BG check... or rather the interviewer is looking to NOT be surprised by anything on the BG check that he didn't already know from the application and interview.

nathan4610
02-15-2012, 6:16 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I just made a list of everything i can remember, as i really have nothing to hide. And for all of you currently looking into getting your license, my interview is scheduled for late September. Which is the soonest time they had!!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Mr_Monkeywrench
02-16-2012, 4:33 PM
Well, im picking up my application tomorrow; wish me luck. I have reservations about it, but I really think its best for my wife and myself.

Mr_Monkeywrench
02-16-2012, 8:40 PM
Here is a question I had about the employment check. Let's say hypothetically that the person applying works for a company such as Disneyland And anything pro 2A Might have you in the unemployment line. How does it work with that kind of individual?

Warpath650
02-21-2012, 2:44 PM
Hi all! Long time lurker here. I just picked up my CCW application. I have read most post on it and Ijust want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. I lucked out both of my neighbors are LEO and we get along great and my boss is pro-gun :D

1- Make my appointment Asap, correct?
2- Should I have my LEO neighbors write my letters or should they be part of the 4 who they contact? Also, do they contact all four or is it random?

I guess that is all for now and thank you in advanced for the help.

winnre
02-21-2012, 4:16 PM
Yes, if you call now for your appointment they will ask if you have everything. Say yes and they will schedule you for 2 months out.

roadtrip
02-21-2012, 4:33 PM
I call shenanigans. 2 months? Seriously?

Mr_Monkeywrench
02-21-2012, 8:16 PM
I got my app on friday and they told me I probably wont get an interview until september.

Warpath650
02-21-2012, 8:56 PM
I got my app on friday and they told me I probably wont get an interview until september.


You sir make me a Sad Panda..

Mr_Monkeywrench
02-21-2012, 11:07 PM
You sir make me a Sad Panda..

LOL welcome to Calguns!! :D

Warpath650
02-22-2012, 3:39 PM
Just got my appointment... October :shrug:

winnre
02-22-2012, 4:00 PM
Just got my appointment... October :shrug:

Wow! Call in on your days off and ask if they have a cancellation.

Warpath650
02-22-2012, 11:29 PM
Wow! Call in on your days off and ask if they have a cancellation.

That is the plan. I also got added to the list incase someone cancels.

roadtrip
02-23-2012, 11:44 AM
That is the plan. I also got added to the list incase someone cancels.

Did they give you any sort of indication whether or not people regularly cancel? Or is it just a "sure thing, we'll put you on the list (wink wink nudge nudge)"?

Warpath650
02-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Did they give you any sort of indication whether or not people regularly cancel? Or is it just a "sure thing, we'll put you on the list (wink wink nudge nudge)"?

The lady was clear that not many cancel. But that will not stop me from calling on my days off to see if someone does cancel.

roadtrip
02-24-2012, 6:33 AM
That's what I figured. Good luck, and let us know if your "vigilance" pays off...

fishman12
02-28-2012, 8:32 AM
First of all, thanks to everyone here for all the info on the process. I will be starting the process today. I live in apple valley ......and it begins.
will be updating as i go.
* question for you guys/gals that would know or have info on the scenario:
If your spouse has a medical marijuana card how does this effect/influence the process?

jaymz
03-12-2012, 8:30 PM
Quick question regarding the app process. I picked up my packet last week. SB County is still requesting stuff that they are not legally permitted to require (reference letters, must first be denied by P.D., etc.). They even want me to sign and have notarized a form that will authourize ANYBODY that they give a copy to, to divulge any and all information that they have about me without fear of any type of recourse should that info become public. Should I submit the application without all of the illegal requirements and hope for the best? Or submit to their unreasonable requests?

wildhawker
03-12-2012, 8:55 PM
Quick question regarding the app process. I picked up my packet last week. SB County is still requesting stuff that they are not legally permitted to require (reference letters, must first be denied by P.D., etc.). They even want me to sign and have notarized a form that will authourize ANYBODY that they give a copy to, to divulge any and all information that they have about me without fear of any type of recourse should that info become public. Should I submit the application without all of the illegal requirements and hope for the best? Or submit to their unreasonable requests?

You, of course, can go ahead and submit to that process. If you don't mind, scan and email everything to me at bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org.

-Brandon

jaymz
03-13-2012, 4:24 AM
I'm aware that I can choose to submit to the process, and I may decide to do that as I have nothing to hide (it's a principle thing), but can I be denied for not complying with illegal requests? I mean really, they want the ability to access medical, surgical and dental records?

Scans will be to your email before noon.

WASR10
03-13-2012, 12:34 PM
UPDATE: I received a call this afternoon to schedule my Range Safety Class. That's the last step before issuance. I'm allowing myself to get excited now, lol.

wildhawker
03-13-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm aware that I can choose to submit to the process, and I may decide to do that as I have nothing to hide (it's a principle thing), but can I be denied for not complying with illegal requests? I mean really, they want the ability to access medical, surgical and dental records?

Scans will be to your email before noon.

I think the text of my last post wasn't clear; mea culpa.

It's possible one may be denied for refusing to comply with unlawful policies. I will email you a more detailed response.

-Brandon

Steph
03-20-2012, 6:44 PM
For those of you that have gone through the process, do they have any kind of restrictions as to what holster you can use? (ex: crossbreed supertuck)

WASR10
03-20-2012, 7:43 PM
For those of you that have gone through the process, do they have any kind of restrictions as to what holster you can use? (ex: crossbreed supertuck)

None at all

WASR10
03-20-2012, 7:44 PM
For those of you that have gone through the process, do they have any kind of restrictions as to what holster you can use? (ex: crossbreed supertuck)

None at all

Steph
03-20-2012, 8:08 PM
Thanks for the response :)

winnre
03-22-2012, 7:25 AM
They do advise to not use shoulder holsters and explain why. But that's just their experiences and opinions, you are free to use what you wish.

USMCDevildog73
03-25-2012, 3:14 PM
Hello everyone. I live in San Bernardino County. I was once a heavy drinker on the weekends. The last time I drank was over 7 years ago. Would the fact that I was once a heavy drinker be grounds for disqualification for a CCW? When I use to go out back in the day, I always wanted to drink on the weekends. I am 37 now. My last drink was when I was 30.

jaymz
03-25-2012, 3:25 PM
May not be ideal, but it's not a crime to be a heavy drinker.

USMCDevildog73
03-25-2012, 3:27 PM
Yeah I know, but I know they may not want someone who drinks heavy to possess one. DOJ questionairre askes if you were ever addicted to alcohol and this might be grounds for them to say you were

HowardW56
03-25-2012, 4:33 PM
Yeah I know, but I know they may not want someone who drinks heavy to possess one. DOJ questionairre askes if you were ever addicted to alcohol and this might be grounds for them to say you were

Were you a diagnosed alcoholic, or just a partying fool... Any DUI or public intoxication arrests?

Having been young and foolish in the past is not a disqualifying factor...

USMCDevildog73
03-25-2012, 7:29 PM
partying fool. got charged with minor purchasing alcohol at the age of 20, 3 months or so before turning 21. I am now 37


That shouldn't be an issue, it has been 17 years....

USMCDevildog73
03-25-2012, 7:52 PM
thank you all. Very helpful.

bikr4jc
03-28-2012, 10:39 PM
Well I got my packet in Dec, waited till I got all my letters and stuff together (stupid I know) Called yesterday, they said they are making appointment for next year and will call me.... Man that is going to be a long wait... What if I change jobs during that time??? do I have to reapply??

Quiet
03-28-2012, 11:52 PM
The current long wait time is due to budgetary/manpower concerns within SBSD that have caused them to reduce the CCW staff to one person.

DocClark340
04-02-2012, 3:26 PM
Hi all! Long time lurker here. I just picked up my CCW application. I have read most post on it and Ijust want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. I lucked out both of my neighbors are LEO and we get along great and my boss is pro-gun :D

1- Make my appointment Asap, correct?
2- Should I have my LEO neighbors write my letters or should they be part of the 4 who they contact? Also, do they contact all four or is it random?

I guess that is all for now and thank you in advanced for the help.

I would also recommend that the people who write your reference letters not to date them. If like me I had collected all my documentation together then the family wagon broke down and I did not have the money for all the fees. I had to wait and save back up and that took six months. I don’t know if there is a “use by date” so to speak but that’s the last thing you need is if SBD says “there are to old, get new ones written so for now we will postpone your interview”
I don’t know for sure if it would go down that way but luck values the prepared.


:kest: :shrug: :slap:

brian.243
04-02-2012, 3:54 PM
Anyone know how long after the class the permit will show up in the mail.

WASR10
04-02-2012, 6:38 PM
Anyone know how long after the class the permit will show up in the mail.

I was wondering the same thing. I just took the class. As far as I know that was the last step (?), so I am guessing the next thing is to receive the card. I am happy to wait patiently, but still wonder how long that might take.

bkoyle
04-02-2012, 9:06 PM
Just finished the class as well. Waiting patiently as well.

DocClark340
04-03-2012, 2:19 PM
Mine took about 1-1/2 month after my class.

:clap::clap::punk::punk:

bkoyle
04-03-2012, 2:57 PM
I received a letter in the mail today, but it was just a receipt for the fee for the training class.

WASR10
04-03-2012, 7:16 PM
Mine took about 1-1/2 month after my class.

:clap::clap::punk::punk:

Thanks Doc. That helps me to not go crazy in anticipation :)

Knauga
04-03-2012, 8:00 PM
I received a letter in the mail today, but it was just a receipt for the fee for the training class.

I have experienced that kind of elation followed by disappointment... I have felt your pain ;)

It'll show up one day soon, try not to fret.

DocClark340
04-06-2012, 9:05 AM
They do a great job with the staff they have.

I would like to throw a little FYI out there though, be sure to bring every firearm you want on your permit with you to the class to qualify the first time. Its bit of a PITA to add one after the fact if you don’t live in SBD. IMHO even if the firearm(s) you own my not be completely practical for concealed carry you might as well get it on the permit and change it later as your budget permits. As the old saying goes “it’s better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it”

To add you now have to qualify with that firearm first. Not a problem. I would make your appointment with the range and get signed off on it first. Then take your approval (student copy) into the SBSO and pay your $24 dollars, have your firearm ran through the system and do the paperwork (pretty painless and in one trip). You may have to wait up to 6 weeks for your new permit with the added firearm(s). After your permit is ready you will have to surrender your old permit in person or by mail (so you will be without the ability to carry till the new amended permit arrives if you do the mail option).

I live in the high desert and the round trip for me is about 130 miles so I had to make the trip twice as I did what I recommended in reverse, so make the qualifying appointment first as it might take a week or so to fit you in depending on the schedule. I heard from Bruce that they are working on making one day a week available just for this.

They are short staffed so we all need to stay patient. (Thank you State of Kalifornia and prison overpopulation):facepalm::facepalm:

:kest::gene::gene::dots:

DocClark340
04-06-2012, 9:13 AM
Thanks Doc. That helps me to not go crazy in anticipation :)

I know, it’s like Christmas when you where a kid. You know what you’re getting but you can’t play with till the magic day………..

Hahahahahahahaahah…………

:hurray::hurray::rofl2::santa::santa:

Check out this thread as well, good food for thought……


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=514459

lgdpt
04-06-2012, 9:26 AM
I would also recommend that the people who write your reference letters not to date them. If like me I had collected all my documentation together then the family wagon broke down and I did not have the money for all the fees. I had to wait and save back up and that took six months. I don’t know if there is a “use by date” so to speak but that’s the last thing you need is if SBD says “there are to old, get new ones written so for now we will postpone your interview”
I don’t know for sure if it would go down that way but luck values the prepared.


:kest: :shrug: :slap:

There is a "use by date" its 90 days. If the letters are older than 90 days from your interview you have to get a new letter.

lgdpt
04-06-2012, 9:28 AM
One more thing for those wondering about contact with your employer. They send a letter to your HR department that clearly states, you have applied for a concealed weapons permit.

Just an FYI...

NinetyNinthArmory
04-06-2012, 10:36 AM
This is all very good info to have. It's great knowing what to expect from the process.

With that in mind, I got a DUI when I was in college. I have since graduated and been working full time for over 3 years as an engineer. Is this an automatic DQ or can I apply and hope that everything else balances this out? Thanks all.

winnre
04-06-2012, 5:10 PM
One more thing for those wondering about contact with your employer. They send a letter to your HR department that clearly states, you have applied for a concealed weapons permit.

Just an FYI...


And the reply I got... "We thought you already carried one!" So much for secrecy.

Steph
04-06-2012, 7:10 PM
One more thing for those wondering about contact with your employer. They send a letter to your HR department that clearly states, you have applied for a concealed weapons permit.

Just an FYI...

For me it would be one county department to another, wonder how that would go? o_O

jaymz
04-08-2012, 12:06 PM
One more thing for those wondering about contact with your employer. They send a letter to your HR department that clearly states, you have applied for a concealed weapons permit.

Just an FYI...

Hence the reason I can't apply. HR Dept. at my work is said to be very anti.

HowardW56
04-08-2012, 4:25 PM
One more thing for those wondering about contact with your employer. They send a letter to your HR department that clearly states, you have applied for a concealed weapons permit.

Just an FYI...

Hence the reason I can't apply. HR Dept. at my work is said to be very anti.

I think the question here would be, what can your employer do about it, other than put you on notice that they do not permit firearms on there property (or something along those lines)...

jaymz
04-08-2012, 5:39 PM
I think the question here would be, what can your employer do about it, other than put you on notice that they do not permit firearms on there property (or something along those lines)...

Legally they can do nothing, but they have been known to make things "difficult" for employees that they don't like. I don't want to have to deal with that and I have too much time invested to go to work somewhere else. Not worth it for me at this time, but I'm on the fence right now. I may just apply and go from there. If work creates issues for me after the fact, maybe I'll get a lawyer and retire early. ;)

sandman21
04-08-2012, 5:47 PM
I think the question here would be, what can your employer do about it, other than put you on notice that they do not permit firearms on there property (or something along those lines)...

Fire you. With no recourse.

DrDavid
04-08-2012, 6:20 PM
Hence the reason I can't apply. HR Dept. at my work is said to be very anti.
This just seems wrong.. Your HR department can fire you for trying to exercise your rights? Would they fire you for attending the "wrong" political rally too? Ugh.. Makes me happy I'm self-employed :)

lgdpt
04-08-2012, 7:29 PM
I was nervous what my 70 year old HR lady would do.

Apparently, she just did what the letter asked and "verified employement."

In reality...what else was appropraiate for her to do? The letter doesnt say you will be using it at work. It just says you applied for a permit. Its none of their business when you plan on exersizing the right to carry.

WASR10
04-08-2012, 9:07 PM
I work for a community college, a.k.a - hot bed of liberalism. When the HR dept. was notified of my CCW intentions, I received a copy of the Faculty Handbook with the section about firearms on campus highlighted.

I was surprised that was all they did. I expected a bigger hassle.

roadtrip
04-09-2012, 9:25 AM
The reaction from your employer depends on quite a few different circumstances. Is the company you work for large or small? A smaller company is less likely to have a dedicated HR department to complete these forms, and the form may just end up on the owner's desk. At a larger company, HR may simply receive the form, complete it, and send it back without the owner/CEO even being notified.

The bottom line, however, is going to be the "gun-friendliness" of whomever sees that piece of paper with your name on it. In a worst case scenario, you could potentially be fired if your company/boss is not 2A friendly. Of course, you probably wouldn't be fired just for applying for the CCW (that would be probably be a slam-dunk case if they did), but if they're anti and don't like having a "gun-nut" in their midst, they'll find some legitimate reason to get rid of you.

Probably more likely, though, is that their anti-2a sentiments will start influencing their decisions in regards to you and your employment. To the people at your employer that know about your ccw application, you'll always be "the guy that wants to carry a gun"...which as we know, not everyone understands or appreciates. Does that mean you may get passed up on for a promotion? Possibly. Will it change your interactions with these people socially? Possibly. If they're gun-unfriendly, you can be sure that it will influence their opinion of you in some way, shape, or form...and probably not for the better.

With the state of economy the way it is right now, and the prospects of finding alternate employment so poor, it's an extremely difficult step to take for many of us.

Knauga
04-09-2012, 7:06 PM
To add you now have to qualify with that firearm first. Not a problem. I would make your appointment with the range and get signed off on it first. Then take your approval (student copy) into the SBSO and pay your $24 dollars, have your firearm ran through the system and do the paperwork (pretty painless and in one trip). You may have to wait up to 6 weeks for your new permit with the added firearm(s). After your permit is ready you will have to surrender your old permit in person or by mail (so you will be without the ability to carry till the new amended permit arrives if you do the mail option).

Just silly. The changes under Sheriff Hoops have just been dumb. It used to be when you went through the initial class you qualified with one of your 3 listed guns and they told you that it would be good for you to seek further training, but it was up to you. The initial qualification was all about safe firearms handling. When you did a change, you simply brought in the new weapon with your CCW. The detective would copy down the numbers to make sure it was accurate on the license and make a comment about your new "Hawg leg" or slick new piece and mail you your new CCW within a week or so. Now qualifications with all the guns and with any changes... what if you added another copy of the same gun? I have two identical guns on my CCW, what is gained with "qualifying" with it?

Driving back and forth to the ONE location in a county the size of San Bernardino can be a REAL hardship. There are parts of the county that are a 4 hour drive to the location where you have to go in order to pick up your new license. Once is bad, twice is just ridiculous. It has been sad to watch this once very pro-ccw department start to slide.

Just silly.

NinetyNinthArmory
04-10-2012, 12:10 PM
Any comments from those who have been through the process on how a DUI is viewed? It isn't a firearms related infraction, but I know it is sometimes a dis-qualifier for other things. Again, it has been over 3 years and it happened while in college.

Knauga
04-11-2012, 8:31 AM
Any comments from those who have been through the process on how a DUI is viewed? It isn't a firearms related infraction, but I know it is sometimes a dis-qualifier for other things. Again, it has been over 3 years and it happened while in college.

Generally yes it is a dis-qualifier. The more time between the occurrence and application the better. The people who I have spoken with who have been successful with a DUI on their record have had more than 15 years of clean record between then and now. I wouldn't advise anybody against applying, but your odds are very slim.

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-12-2012, 9:57 AM
Please clarify things for me. I work for a LARGE California university. We have a huge faceless HR department. My immediate supervisor is EXTREMELY anti 2A. If the sheriff contacts my HR dept, Im good with that. Like I said, they are huge and faceless. If the contact my immediate supervisor, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes out of his way to purposely tank my chances of getting a LTC. So do they contact HR, or my immediate supervisor, or both?

WASR10
04-12-2012, 11:27 AM
Please clarify things for me. I work for a LARGE California university. We have a huge faceless HR department. My immediate supervisor is EXTREMELY anti 2A. If the sheriff contacts my HR dept, Im good with that. Like I said, they are huge and faceless. If the contact my immediate supervisor, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes out of his way to purposely tank my chances of getting a LTC. So do they contact HR, or my immediate supervisor, or both?

The HR department for my school was the only people/person contacted. The letter was received, entered the Human Resources bureaucracy, filtered through the red tape, and sent out. No one else, from my immediate Dean to the Chancellor, has been informed.

One unique occasion where the faceless state machinery came in handy!

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-12-2012, 11:41 AM
The HR department for my school was the only people/person contacted. The letter was received, entered the Human Resources bureaucracy, filtered through the red tape, and sent out. No one else, from my immediate Dean to the Chancellor, has been informed.

One unique occasion where the faceless state machinery came in handy!

Man, you have no idea how much stress you just relieved me of!! :mnl:
That is awesome news!!
I was stressed because I know how anti my supervisor is; I could care less if if our HR dept knows.

Knauga
04-12-2012, 2:03 PM
Please clarify things for me. I work for a LARGE California university. We have a huge faceless HR department. My immediate supervisor is EXTREMELY anti 2A. If the sheriff contacts my HR dept, Im good with that. Like I said, they are huge and faceless. If the contact my immediate supervisor, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes out of his way to purposely tank my chances of getting a LTC. So do they contact HR, or my immediate supervisor, or both?

They will contact the persona and address you put down on the form. Give them the HR department as a contact point for your employer.

DocClark340
04-12-2012, 2:08 PM
Just silly. The changes under Sheriff Hoops have just been dumb. It used to be when you went through the initial class you qualified with one of your 3 listed guns and they told you that it would be good for you to seek further training, but it was up to you. The initial qualification was all about safe firearms handling. When you did a change, you simply brought in the new weapon with your CCW. The detective would copy down the numbers to make sure it was accurate on the license and make a comment about your new "Hawg leg" or slick new piece and mail you your new CCW within a week or so. Now qualifications with all the guns and with any changes... what if you added another copy of the same gun? I have two identical guns on my CCW, what is gained with "qualifying" with it?

Driving back and forth to the ONE location in a county the size of San Bernardino can be a REAL hardship. There are parts of the county that are a 4 hour drive to the location where you have to go in order to pick up your new license. Once is bad, twice is just ridiculous. It has been sad to watch this once very pro-ccw department start to slide.

Just silly.

Well I figure it’s their game so you have to play by their rules. I don’t think qualifying in a bad idea; I saw a lot of people on the range shooting in my class that couldn’t even put their rounds in the center chest at 15 feet! And they where shooting full size autos!!! I asked a few people “So did you practice before you came to class?” I got a lot of head shakes and shoulder shrugs. If you’re going to carry a 38spl +P Air Light J Frame you better practice with it or you’re going to end up killing someone you didn’t intend to shoot behind the perp.

I know SBSD are shifting a lot of personal around to cover the over crowding in the jail system or so I was told.

It is what it is but would be nice to be able to take care of everything with one day off and in one trip.

Especially when I get a whopping 16 miles per gallon.


:eek: :eek: :eek: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly:

HowardW56
04-12-2012, 2:18 PM
Just silly. The changes under Sheriff Hoops have just been dumb. It used to be when you went through the initial class you qualified with one of your 3 listed guns and they told you that it would be good for you to seek further training, but it was up to you. The initial qualification was all about safe firearms handling. When you did a change, you simply brought in the new weapon with your CCW. The detective would copy down the numbers to make sure it was accurate on the license and make a comment about your new "Hawg leg" or slick new piece and mail you your new CCW within a week or so. Now qualifications with all the guns and with any changes... what if you added another copy of the same gun? I have two identical guns on my CCW, what is gained with "qualifying" with it?

Driving back and forth to the ONE location in a county the size of San Bernardino can be a REAL hardship. There are parts of the county that are a 4 hour drive to the location where you have to go in order to pick up your new license. Once is bad, twice is just ridiculous. It has been sad to watch this once very pro-ccw department start to slide.

Just silly.

Many agencies make their officers/deputies qualify with anything they are going to carry. (Primary, back-up, off duty)...

I don't know if this is a POST requirement, but its not a bad idea... I'll admit that I own guns that I don't shoot as well as I would like...

wildhawker
04-12-2012, 2:41 PM
San Bernardino is enforcing unlawful requirements. They are also collecting a lot of money and not performing the services that money serves to provide for.

If anyone is denied or suffers delay or monetary damages because of the unlawful policies and practices of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office, please email me at bcombs at calgunsfoundation dot org.

-Brandon

I would also recommend that the people who write your reference letters not to date them. If like me I had collected all my documentation together then the family wagon broke down and I did not have the money for all the fees. I had to wait and save back up and that took six months. I don’t know if there is a “use by date” so to speak but that’s the last thing you need is if SBD says “there are to old, get new ones written so for now we will postpone your interview”
I don’t know for sure if it would go down that way but luck values the prepared.


:kest: :shrug: :slap:

DocClark340
04-12-2012, 3:09 PM
Many agencies make their officers/deputies qualify with anything they are going to carry. (Primary, back-up, off duty)...

I don't know if this is a POST requirement, but its not a bad idea... I'll admit that I own guns that I don't shoot as well as I would like...

Ya me too, but I don’t think I will be putting my Glock 20 10mm on my permit. LOL

It took longer to get from the range office to the range then it did to shoot/reload/shoot…….

Hahahahahahaahah...............

:13: :59: :28: :68: :rofl2:

Knauga
04-14-2012, 7:45 AM
Many agencies make their officers/deputies qualify with anything they are going to carry. (Primary, back-up, off duty)...

I don't know if this is a POST requirement, but its not a bad idea... I'll admit that I own guns that I don't shoot as well as I would like...

That is because those agencies are responsible for what those officers do with their guns and they need to document proficiency. It is not appropriate to hold civilians to a professional standard. The person responsible for a civilian who carries a concealed firearm is that civilian. It is in THEIR (the civilian's) interest to get training and be proficient, but it is not the place of the department to REQUIRE that.

I would suggest that you to get more training and practice with your firearms before you decide to carry them, but beyond a basic ability to handle your firearm safely (ie: keep it pointed in a safe direction, knowing what makes it go bang and that you can function the controls while still keeping it pointed in a safe direction) the sheriff is overstepping his bounds in attempting to place these requirements on civilians not employed by his department.

HowardW56
04-14-2012, 8:30 AM
That is because those agencies are responsible for what those officers do with their guns and they need to document proficiency. It is not appropriate to hold civilians to a professional standard. The person responsible for a civilian who carries a concealed firearm is that civilian. It is in THEIR (the civilian's) interest to get training and be proficient, but it is not the place of the department to REQUIRE that.

I would suggest that you to get more training and practice with your firearms before you decide to carry them, but beyond a basic ability to handle your firearm safely (ie: keep it pointed in a safe direction, knowing what makes it go bang and that you can function the controls while still keeping it pointed in a safe direction) the sheriff is overstepping his bounds in attempting to place these requirements on civilians not employed by his department.

I agree with the first paragraph, and disagree with the second, I believe that anyone that carries a firearm should be able to demonstrate a minimum level of competence with it...

I agree with your training comment, I have trained quite a bit with a few different instructors. (the most enlightening was force on force, the most challenging was low light)

I don't know how many firearms you own, and you don't know how many I own. But, once you have accumulated a large number of them, I expect that you will find that there are some that you just don't shoot as well as others.

I don't shoot a Sig P225 as well as I shoot a P226, P228, P229...

I don't shoot a S&W 39 series as well as I shoot a S&W 59 series...

1911's are always a pleasure to shoot, and fairly easy to shoot well...

Glock model 21 grip is a little too large to be comfortable, but they are reliable and some people love that design.

I don't shoot a S&W J frame as well as I shoot a S&W K, L, or N frame...( Even the 2" K frames)

Knauga
04-14-2012, 11:11 AM
I agree with the first paragraph, and disagree with the second, I believe that anyone that carries a firearm should be able to demonstrate a minimum level of competence with it...

And who decides the "minimum level of competence"? Is it the agency that requires the applicant to don a flak vest, helmet and complete a rigidly scored and timed course of fire? There is one.

Previously the Sheriff's dept in San Bernardino County required an applicant to shoot one of the listed guns a total of 10 rounds that required a reload during the process for an unscored course of fire. The purpose of this course of fire was for you to demonstrate a minimum level of competence and safety with the weapon. The instructor watched the shooter, not the target. If you kept your weapon pointed in a safe direction, fired your rounds safely, reloaded without pointing your weapon in an unsafe direction and handled your weapon in a safe manner even after you completed your course of fire, you passed. Afterwards it was suggested that you get further training. To me, that is the extent of the Sheriff's responsibility.

In my class there was an elderly gentleman who was using a walker following surgery. In a friends class there was a woman whose previous experience with firearms had only been with other people shooting her with them. One of the deputies spent quite a bit of time helping her get comfortable with her gun. Should they not be able to defend themselves because they haven't demonstrated an ability to the Sheriff to shoot like Dirty Harry?

To me, minimum level of competency is showing safe handling skills and showing that you are not going to accidentally shoot somebody, beyond that you are on your own to get training and if you fail in that you are on the hook legally if you act in a negligent manner. Many other states require no live fire qualification for their CCWs, why should we? Why should we attempt to throw up barriers to good people having the capability to protect themselves? For the record, the state of California has no requirement to have ANY live fire training for the CCW process.

Knauga
04-14-2012, 11:12 AM
I don't shoot a Sig P225 as well as I shoot a P226, P228, P229...

I don't shoot a S&W 39 series as well as I shoot a S&W 59 series...

1911's are always a pleasure to shoot, and fairly easy to shoot well...

Glock model 21 grip is a little too large to be comfortable, but they are reliable and some people love that design.

I don't shoot a S&W J frame as well as I shoot a S&W K, L, or N frame...( Even the 2" K frames)

All of this is the responsibility of the shooter, not the sheriff.

HowardW56
04-14-2012, 2:09 PM
I believe that anyone that carries a firearm should be able to demonstrate a minimum level of competence with it...



Is it the agency that requires the applicant to don a flak vest, helmet and complete a rigidly scored and timed course of fire? There is one.

While I wouldn't have a problem with a "rigidly scored and timed course of fire", I think a realistic standard would be 10 rounds 1 minute, full size silloutte, at 21 feet. I wouldn't have an issue if it were not timed. I would like to see a minimum standard of 70% hits in the black, they don't have to be 10 ring...

Previously the Sheriff's dept in San Bernardino County required an applicant to shoot one of the listed guns a total of 10 rounds that required a reload during the process for an unscored course of fire. The purpose of this course of fire was for you to demonstrate a minimum level of competence and safety with the weapon. The instructor watched the shooter, not the target. If you kept your weapon pointed in a safe direction, fired your rounds safely, reloaded without pointing your weapon in an unsafe direction and handled your weapon in a safe manner even after you completed your course of fire, you passed. Afterwards it was suggested that you get further training. To me, that is the extent of the Sheriff's responsibility.

That isn't a bad start for a standard, but I would prefer to see some percentage of hits...

In my class there was an elderly gentleman who was using a walker following surgery.

You make no mention of his competence with a firearm, just that he was using a walker, so I won’t address this, it’s just argumentative…

In a friends class there was a woman whose previous experience with firearms had only been with other people shooting her with them. One of the deputies spent quite a bit of time helping her get comfortable with her gun. Should they not be able to defend themselves because they haven't demonstrated an ability to the Sheriff to shoot like Dirty Harry?

Do you think it was the sheriff’s responsibility to provide training to that woman? While I can be sympathetic to anyone who has been shot at, it is not the government’s responsibility to provide training.

To me, minimum level of competency is showing safe handling skills and showing that you are not going to accidentally shoot somebody, beyond that you are on your own to get training and if you fail in that you are on the hook legally if you act in a negligent manner. Many other states require no live fire qualification for their CCWs, why should we? Why should we attempt to throw up barriers to good people having the capability to protect themselves?

It’s obvious that your concept of a minimum level of competency and mine differ. I have seen the results of a spray & pray mentality with a 9mm auto; fortunately the only hits were cars, windows & stucco. Should there have been other people around it could have been very bad. It doesn’t take much to reach a basic level of competence, a couple Saturdays with a trainer and some range time…

Does the requirement for drivers training bother you? I don't have an issue with good people carrying guns, I would like to know that should they ever be in the unfortunate position of needing to use their gun, that they won't be a danger to anyone within 2 blocks...

Do you think DMV should eliminate the driving test too? There should be a reasonable uniform standard statewide.

For the record, the state of California has no requirement to have ANY live fire training for the CCW process.

Agreed, there is no statewide requirement for live fire training; however the statute does permit the Sheriff of Chief of Police to institute a standard for training. I believe it is not to exceed 16 hours…

HowardW56
04-14-2012, 2:16 PM
I don't shoot a Sig P225 as well as I shoot a P226, P228, P229...

I don't shoot a S&W 39 series as well as I shoot a S&W 59 series...

1911's are always a pleasure to shoot, and fairly easy to shoot well...

Glock model 21 grip is a little too large to be comfortable, but they are reliable and some people love that design.

I don't shoot a S&W J frame as well as I shoot a S&W K, L, or N frame...( Even the 2" K frames)

All of this is the responsibility of the shooter, not the sheriff.

If you are saying that it is the responsibility of the shooter to be competent with firearms, I agree. If you are saying that anyone should be issued a LTC regardless of their competence with the listed firearms, I disagree...

Side Note; I can shoot a qualifying score on most courses of fire with any of the guns I listed above, but with some of the guns my scores would be nothing to be proud of...

Knauga
04-14-2012, 10:31 PM
It’s obvious that your concept of a minimum level of competency and mine differ.

It is obvious that your concept of the fundamental right to self defense is different than mine. We lose our rights one reasonable step at a time.

wildhawker
04-14-2012, 11:19 PM
I'd like it if we can keep this thread limited to directly San Bernardino policy and process info. 2A offers plenty of room for broader philosophical debate.

-Brandon

DocClark340
04-17-2012, 12:39 PM
And who decides the "minimum level of competence"? Is it the agency that requires the applicant to don a flak vest, helmet and complete a rigidly scored and timed course of fire? There is one.
Previously the Sheriff's dept in San Bernardino County required an applicant to shoot one of the listed guns a total of 10 rounds that required a reload during the process for an unscored course of fire. The purpose of this course of fire was for you to demonstrate a minimum level of competence and safety with the weapon. The instructor watched the shooter, not the target. If you kept your weapon pointed in a safe direction, fired your rounds safely, reloaded without pointing your weapon in an unsafe direction and handled your weapon in a safe manner even after you completed your course of fire, you passed. Afterwards it was suggested that you get further training. To me, that is the extent of the Sheriff's responsibility.

In my class there was an elderly gentleman who was using a walker following surgery. In a friends class there was a woman whose previous experience with firearms had only been with other people shooting her with them. One of the deputies spent quite a bit of time helping her get comfortable with her gun. Should they not be able to defend themselves because they haven't demonstrated an ability to the Sheriff to shoot like Dirty Harry? To me, minimum level of competency is showing safe handling skills and showing that you are not going to accidentally shoot somebody, beyond that you are on your own to get training and if you fail in that you are on the hook legally if you act in a negligent manner. Many other states require no live fire qualification for their CCWs, why should we? Why should we attempt to throw up barriers to good people having the capability to protect themselves? For the record, the state of California has no requirement to have ANY live fire training for the CCW process.

Knauga I think you’re off the mark on this. The SBSD still has the same possess for qualifying, fire 10 rounds with a reload and this is not timed fire. I would never want to begrudge someone the opportunity of self protection because of a physical disability that can be addressed and accommodated but that person has to be willing to put in the time and practice to address those limitations.

I am a firearms instructor and can tell you some people I have trained just do not have the mindset or focus it takes to truly handle a firearm safely. A lot of the time I find it to students who are over 70 who have the hardest time staying on task with just simple range commands. Not to pick on this group of people or belittle them and of course I applaud them for taking training and some of them run and gun better then me!!!! I have even run across younger people (20’s and 30’s) with some of the same A.D.D. issues. You don’t have to shoot like Dirty Harry as you pointed out but at least awareness to not accidently shoot themselves or others and without that focus someone will eventually get hurt.
(Don’t blast me on this, it’s just an observation and there are always exceptions to the rule).

CCW is a lifestyle commitment and just having a gun doesn’t guaranty your survival. It’s your whits and observations that keep you safe and out of trouble. Like I have said in the Personal Protection in the Home courses I have taught (If you don’t feel like you can take a human life, get a dog and not a gun). The last thing I want to be on the street is gunfire fodder.

At my CCW class there where 2 or 3 people who brought out firearms that they just bought and had never even fired till that day!!!! Really, not even function fired or cleaned the dang thing first!!!!
I think the minimal level of commentary is standing on the line, load your firearm, hit a man size silhouette at 15ft, reload and do it again (That is all the qualifying course requires, not pinpoint accuracy like bulls eye shooting, combat accuracy). At least for your initial class to show you know what you’re doing and doing it safely. After that you should be able to add or remove firearms off or on your permit without having to re-qualify as you showed you where proficient to begin with.

Keep training and shoot at least one a month to stay proficient.

IMHO

:oji: :oji: :beatdeadhorse5: :oji: :oji:

Knauga
04-17-2012, 10:07 PM
Keep training and shoot at least one a month to stay proficient.

All well and good and I don't disagree, but that is the individuals responsibility, not the Sheriff's.

We have been discussing Sheriff's dept policies, especially the changes since the last election. In the case of every person holding a SBC CCW, they have demonstrated basic firearms safety with at least one of their pistols. What is the purpose of requiring the CCW holder to qualify with each pistol? What is the purpose of requiring the CCW holder to qualify with subsequently added pistols? ESPECIALLY since they are supposedly only verifying "basic firearms safety"?

john67elco
04-19-2012, 7:39 AM
I got an email from awesome Billy Jack saying he hears SBSO is not doing appointments for 2013 already. Isnt Sheriff Hoops up for election this year and what happens if he loses?

WASR10
04-22-2012, 12:02 PM
I received my LTC in the mail yesterday and today was my first day of carrying. Next step will be some insurance and a car safe. I wanted to thank the informative members of CalGuns who helped me obtain my CCW! Below is a brief time line of my experience, for anyone interested.

09-02-2011 Picked up my application at SO and called to schedule my interview, was notified that interviews will be scheduled for next year.

11-23-2011 Received call and scheduled my interview for January 24, 2012.

01-24-2012 Attended interview. Was told they would schedule me for the safety class after the background check. I was notified I had to get a driver's license with a street address.

01-26-2012 References reported receiving inquiry letters.

01-30-2012 Letter writers reported receiving phone calls.

01-31-2012 Detective walked neighborhood, interviewing neighbors.

02-09-2012 Submitted corrected driver's license

02-23-2012 Received a call, one of my references was not acceptable, submitted new reference.

02-24-2012 New reference reported receiving call.

03-13-2012 Scheduled my appointment for the Range Safety Class for March 31

03-31-2012 Attended class

04-18-2012 Received a call, my class completion card did not arrive with the others. Faxed my copy

04-21-2012 Received card

Entire process took 7 months, 19 days.

jaymz
04-22-2012, 7:37 PM
Where in your timeline did you turn in your paperwork? Did you mail it or hand deliver?