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View Full Version : Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***


obeygiant
10-14-2010, 10:21 PM
(deleted outdated info/links)

UPDATE (2015 May 10):
If you go thru p. 5 of this thread, you'll see that Sheriff Bernal has followed Sheriff Miller's CCW policy of accepting "self-defense" (SD), aka "personal protection", as sufficient Good Cause (GC) and has a radically increased the burden of Good Moral Character (GMC) (thus the "caveat" in the title). Nonetheless, if a law-abiding resident merely wants -- not "needs" -- a CCW, you should be able to get one if you pass the sheriff's unreasonable GMC requirements.

After the quote from the sheriff's CCW webpage I post how the SO and county may be liable to a federal civil rights lawsuit if they do not follow said policy and apply the same GMC standard to ALL CCW applicants. That's in case someone in Monterey Co gets denied and wants to fight to get a CCW. :chris:

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):
A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

UPDATE (2015 July 04): Acc to post #179, a "psychological assessment" is no longer required (even though their website still says it is). This is good news because that saves applicants $150.00 and the time, effort and inconvenience of driving to and from "Law Enforcement Psychological Services" in Los Gatos (even though they say below an applicant can use "any Psychologist licensed" in CA).

Psychological Assessment: A Psychological Assessment will be administered by Law Enforcement Psychological Services. The applicant will be given appointment information after successfully completing the Personal Interview. Applicants are responsible for paying the $150.00 fee to Law Enforcement Psychological Services at the time of their appointment. Results of the assessment will be sent to the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.
(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-procedures/

Applicants for a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit are welcome to be evaluated by any Psychologist licensed in the State of California. The Sheriff’s office currently uses Psychological Services Inc, based in Los Gatos, for its CCW psychological screening. This can also be utilized as an appeal to a submitted psychological examination for CCW. (emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-psych/

whisk.e.rebellion
10-20-2010, 8:13 AM
The PDF under "Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms" is completely blank except for the CalGuns cover page. Is this just a placeholder document?

obeygiant
10-20-2010, 7:54 PM
The PDF under "Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms" is completely blank except for the CalGuns cover page. Is this just a placeholder document?

Try right clicking on the link below and selecting "save as" or "save link as" (if you're using firefox) to download it directly rather than opening it in your browser.

Monterey Policies and Forms (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/Monterey.pdf)

dantodd
11-22-2010, 9:57 AM
Found this interesting article from back in 1998

http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/archives/1998/1998-Mar-26/1967/1/@@index

Blackhawk556
11-22-2010, 11:59 AM
So it's ok to post the names of ccw applicants in a newspaper but Ventura county doesn't want to give up the applications because of identity theft?

Cgf is removing all personal info so they really don't have case

wildhawker
11-22-2010, 12:00 PM
Newspapers are about sensational headlines and controversy.

We are boring and just want information to advance everyone's civil rights so it's a non-story.

dantodd
12-02-2010, 2:06 AM
Good cause statements are now available Here. (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/115-monterey)

Purple K
12-02-2010, 2:08 AM
Sweet!!!

Blackhawk556
12-02-2010, 3:35 PM
from everything i've read so far, it looks like you need to carry LARGE amounts of cash, work for that aero company, a D.A., or have documented threats against you

goober
12-05-2010, 10:38 AM
yep, seems like bein in the "Aerosquadron" has been the sure-fire ticket to a CCW...

dantodd
12-05-2010, 11:12 AM
The aerosquadron isn't an aerospace company, it is a sheriffs volunteer group.

rtlltj
01-16-2011, 5:29 PM
Anyone from Monterey County try applying for a CCW since Miller took office?

goober
01-16-2011, 7:16 PM
i haven't yet, but soon.... :D

Tripper
02-01-2011, 7:33 PM
I have recently applied in Mid January.

There is no new direction by the Sheriff regarding the application process or what is considered 'good cause'. The person that takes the applications is operating in 'business as usual' mode, and from what I could gather, it sounds as if 'personal protection' is not sufficient cause.

I am aware that 'Candidate Miller' stated that 'personal protection' was sufficient cause at one of the debates, at this time the administration is still under transition, and it doesn't appear that this issue is a priority.

I might be able to answer specific questions via PM.

Tripper

goober
02-01-2011, 8:17 PM
Thanks for the update, working on my app now. Keep us posted!

Ocular_Trauma
02-17-2011, 5:01 PM
Quite interested, please keep us informed of developments with the new Sheriff. It's starting to seem as though living in certain parts of the county would be 'good cause' enough :(

blofeld42
02-26-2011, 3:22 PM
If by "certain parts of the county" you mean downtown Monterey. Sheesh, shootouts outside the Mucky Duck.

SLYoteBoy
02-26-2011, 3:33 PM
any new updates? havent seen this thread untill today. And why do the good cause statements seem like 90% are written in the third person?

xrMike
03-15-2011, 7:11 AM
And why do the good cause statements seem like 90% are written in the third person?I was wondering about that too... Seems like many of them were not even written by the applicants themselves, but were relayed orally to some other person, who then wrote down his own interpretation of what he heard.

That seems highly irregular to me. You'd think good cause would be documented in the EXACT words of the applicant. In his own hand.

Blackhawk556
03-24-2011, 1:48 PM
Miller needs to step up to the plate to see if he's worthy of being a sheriff who will stand by the 2A.

rojocorsa
03-24-2011, 2:12 PM
Not 21, so haven't got a clue of what's going on. I don't have a pistol either, so this is really a moot point for me.


But I wish my fellow residents some luck.

Tripper
05-06-2011, 9:58 PM
The policy is being reviewed

xrMike
05-07-2011, 5:30 PM
The policy is being reviewedStill? It's been that way for months, ever since the new sheriff was elected... ???

goober
05-07-2011, 5:36 PM
Still? It's been that way for months, ever since the new sheriff was elected... ???

Yes. Still.
I know it seems like it's taking an awful long time... That's because it IS.
Rest assured efforts are being made to help move the process forward.
That's all I can say right now.
Stay tuned.

goober
05-10-2011, 6:37 PM
Are you ready to apply for a CCW permit in Monterey County? Do you meet the basic qualifications (not a prohibited person, good moral character)?

If so, please contact me (goober) by PM so that you can be added to the list of Monterey County constituents that are ready to apply and unable to do so because the Monterey County Sheriff's Office (MCSO) is currently not accepting CCW applications while they review and revise their policy.

This list will be used if necessary to communicate to MCSO the number of qualified constituents that are effectively being denied consideration for a CCW permit by MCSO's ongoing refusal to accept applications.

At this point your CGN screen name is all that is needed; however, when the letter is drafted and the signatory list compiled, your full information (name and address) will be required. Please do not sign up for this action if you are not willing to participate fully by contributing your information and signing the letter at a later date.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL CGF ACTION. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH AND APPROVED BY SUNSHINE INITIATIVE LEADERSHIP, BUT IS NOT OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED.


Making Monterey County "shall issue" was a cornerstone promise of candidate Miller in his campaign for Sheriff, which he won with our help.
Word has it that while Miller intends to follow through and make good on his promise, there is some degree of hesitation and worry in the MCSO office as a whole regarding this drastic change in policy (Monterey County has historically been on the "difficult" end of the "may-issue" spectrum). Towards that end, MCSO is attempting to revise their policies; however, they seem to be plagued by planning paralysis, and 5 months after being sworn in, Miller's office is still not accepting CCW applications. While it is understandable that it takes some time to revise the longstanding policies of the past, it is time to get past this stumbling point and begin accepting applications.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

wildhawker
05-10-2011, 11:26 PM
All,

Please do help goober if you are able. He is extraordinarily capable and I trust him implicitly.

-Brandon

Are you ready to apply for a CCW permit in Monterey County? Do you meet the basic qualifications (not a prohibited person, good moral character)?

If so, please contact me (goober) by PM so that you can be added to the list of Monterey County constituents that are ready to apply and unable to do so because the Monterey County Sheriff's Office (MCSO) is currently not accepting CCW applications while they review and revise their policy.

This list will be used if necessary to communicate to MCSO the number of qualified constituents that are effectively being denied consideration for a CCW permit by MCSO's ongoing refusal to accept applications.

At this point your CGN screen name is all that is needed; however, when the letter is drafted and the signatory list compiled, your full information (name and address) will be required. Please do not sign up for this action if you are not willing to participate fully by contributing your information and signing the letter at a later date.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL CGF ACTION. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH AND APPROVED BY SUNSHINE INITIATIVE LEADERSHIP, BUT IS NOT OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED.


Making Monterey County "shall issue" was a cornerstone promise of candidate Miller in his campaign for Sheriff, which he won with our help.
Word has it that while Miller intends to follow through and make good on his promise, there is some degree of hesitation and worry in the MCSO office as a whole regarding this drastic change in policy (Monterey County has historically been on the "difficult" end of the "may-issue" spectrum). Towards that end, MCSO is attempting to revise their policies; however, they seem to be plagued by planning paralysis, and 5 months after being sworn in, Miller's office is still not accepting CCW applications. While it is understandable that it takes some time to revise the longstanding policies of the past, it is time to get past this stumbling point and begin accepting applications.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

goober
05-13-2011, 11:07 AM
All,

Please do help goober if you are able. He is extraordinarily capable and I trust him implicitly.

-Brandon

Thank you Brandon!

Folks, PM me to sign up or for more information.

short circuit
05-13-2011, 8:04 PM
I also am going to try to get the CCW as soon as the become available for good cause = self defence of self an/or family. I do hope Sheriff Miller speeds up the process here and does indeed go to shall issue for self defence.

goober
05-16-2011, 7:40 PM
Thanks to those who have stepped up to be included in this action.
Can still use some more folks to add weight to the letter. PM me to sign up.
Stay tuned, will hopefully have some news this Friday regarding MCSO's plans going forward.
Can't say more at this time.

wildhawker
05-16-2011, 9:20 PM
Bumping this again. Monterey residents, please strongly consider assisting goober with his efforts.

-Brandon

goober
05-23-2011, 10:46 AM
The Monterey County Sheriff's Office has apparently finished their review and revision of CCW application and evaluation policies.
According to the Commander now in charge of handling applications, the standard DoJ application form will be accepted; A LiveScan and personal interview will be required as well, per typical procedures used by most granting agencies. Whether any additional paperwork, evaluations, or formalities are going to be requested by MCSO is not clear yet. The application process will be handled by the Backgrounds Investigation unit.

The target date for beginning to accept applications is June 1st, 2011. The Background Investigation unit has new leadership and they need a week to get organized. They did say that they appreciate that there are many applicants that have been waiting some time to apply, and want to get the process started as quickly as possible.
Hopefully things will go as planned and we'll all be able to apply starting in a little more than a week, and MCSO will fulfill Sheriff Miller's campaign promise.

Stay tuned. Those of you that stepped up to be included in the action, stand by. We may not need to follow though with that plan, but will if conditions warrant it.

koemandoe
05-23-2011, 8:31 PM
Standing by :cool2:

lrcasey
05-24-2011, 9:38 AM
Thank you! Standing by as well.

short circuit
05-24-2011, 7:24 PM
Standing by....

goober
06-01-2011, 9:06 PM
Spoke to MCSO today, as June 1st was supposed to be the date when they would begin accepting applications. Was advised that they need "a bit more time" to make "a few last revisions" and add a cover letter and instructions to the applicant packet.
As they have taken my name and number, they assured me that they would notify me when they are ready for me to apply.
Let's give them another week, and if they're still not ready by then, its time to speak up as a group.
Note: I have no idea if anyone at MCSO reads this stuff. If they do it would be easy for at least some of them to figure out who I am, based on the timing of my comms with them and these posts. So be it. What we're doing here does not need to be covert, or deceptive in any way. We simply want the right to apply for CCW permits, and fair evaluation of those permits under the "shalll issue" policy Sheriff Miller promised us when he was still a candidate asking for our votes.
First step is get them to begin accepting applications. Seems almost ridiculous to even need to list that as a step, but that's where we are.
Next step is to see how well they honor their promises.
Stay tuned.

wildhawker
06-02-2011, 3:47 PM
Maybe they should be informed of our model policy and SF's unfortunate position...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=440281

Spoke to MCSO today, as June 1st was supposed to be the date when they would begin accepting applications. Was advised that they need "a bit more time" to make "a few last revisions" and add a cover letter and instructions to the applicant packet.
As they have taken my name and number, they assured me that they would notify me when they are ready for me to apply.
Let's give them another week, and if they're still not ready by then, its time to speak up as a group.
Note: I have no idea if anyone at MCSO reads this stuff. If they do it would be easy for at least some of them to figure out who I am, based on the timing of my comms with them and these posts. So be it. What we're doing here does not need to be covert, or deceptive in any way. We simply want the right to apply for CCW permits, and fair evaluation of those permits under the "shalll issue" policy Sheriff Miller promised us when he was still a candidate asking for our votes.
First step is get them to begin accepting applications. Seems almost ridiculous to even need to list that as a step, but that's where we are.
Next step is to see how well they honor their promises.
Stay tuned.

goober
06-02-2011, 5:38 PM
Maybe they should be informed of our model policy and SF's unfortunate position...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=440281

Nice! And you can bet I will so inform them... :D

Tripper
06-03-2011, 7:10 AM
I would think it better to do so now rather than wait fir them to make the policy first then have to go through the whole process of reviewing a new policy

Tripper
06-03-2011, 7:11 AM
I'm referring to the recommending new policy

goober
06-03-2011, 7:57 AM
Well until we actually see the new policy they are adopting, it may be presumptuous to suggest they look at the CGF model...
They have stated they have approved a new policy, so that's apparently a done deal.
Once we see what it is, we'll know if they need to be "encouraged" to consider something else.
Hopefully if it comes to that they will be much swifter at reviewing and adopting the 2nd time around :p

benbangui
06-04-2011, 12:06 PM
crazy! keep me informed :) is santa cruz, 95062 in montery county? can i apply or help in any way? i spend most of my time in HI but i was raised in santa cruz and still have my drivers license info with the SC address. im am there quite often. let me know if i can help :)

benbangui
06-04-2011, 12:24 PM
i was reading one of the statments that said he carried around $45,000 on him while working. do you know if there is a minimum cash carry as to how much money on you would qualify you to be able to carry? or is there not enough info on that? its more just turning in applications and seeing if its accepted or not? i work occationally for my parents when i am back in cali and run a truck rout. all transactions are usually cash, but nothing close to the amount stated above...

goober
06-04-2011, 12:28 PM
Santa Cruz has its own county :)
From what I hear its no easier to get a CCW there than it is for us to the south of you folks.
But by all means, join the party. I don't think the "Time To Apply" call has gone out for SC (it hasn't for Monterey either), but that doesn't mean you can't apply anyway. Just don't expect to get a permit.

benbangui
06-04-2011, 12:31 PM
gotcha :):( so the DOJ Standard Application Form: is what to fill out and send off?

goober
06-04-2011, 12:44 PM
gotcha :):( so the DOJ Standard Application Form: is what to fill out and send off?

First, if you haven't already done so, check out the CCW Sunshine Initiative site, there's lots of good resources there, including the Flow Chart and CCW Application Guide (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/CGF_Civilian_CCW_Guide.pdf), which you should read through.

The pages for SC County are here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/132-santa-cruz.html), and there you will find the good cause statements as well as local policy info & forms (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/SantaCruz.pdf).

You'll want to contact the SCSO and see what their application procedure is. Definitely grab the standard DoJ form and read through it so you know what to expect; filling it out isn't a bad idea. But it is doubtful that SCSO will just have you send it in; you'll probably have to arrange an appointment to come in and submit it in person, get LiveScanned, have an interview, etc.

Oh and if you are at all able, please Support the Initiative (http://www.cgfstore.org/)! CGF is going to need to "encourage" many counties to reform their CCW policies to comply with state and federal law, and doing so takes money...

benbangui
06-04-2011, 12:46 PM
First, if you haven't already done so, check out the CCW Sunshine Initiative site, there's lots of good resources there, including the Flow Chart and CCW Application Guide (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/CGF_Civilian_CCW_Guide.pdf), which you should read through.

The pages for SC County are here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/132-santa-cruz.html), and there you will find the good cause statements as well as local policy info & forms (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/SantaCruz.pdf).

You'll want to contact the SCSO and see what their application procedure is. Definitely grab the standard DoJ form and read through it so you know what to expect; filling it out isn't a bad idea. But it is doubtful that SCSO will just have you send it in; you'll probably have to arrange an appointment to come in and submit it in person, get LiveScanned, have an interview, etc.

Oh and if you are at all able, please Support the Initiative (http://www.cgfstore.org/)! CGF is going to need to "encourage" many counties to reform their CCW policies to comply with state and federal law, and doing so takes money...

cool! thanks for all the info :)

hddon
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
hi everyone new to calguns. living in monterey county i have been resigned to never getting a ccw. this thread gives me hope. has there been any movement by the sherriff's office yet?

goober
06-22-2011, 12:30 PM
Welcome to CalGuns, hddon!
No movement from MCSO yet.
But there are recent developments that will be announced soon.
Expect things to pick up a bit in the near future :D

hddon
06-23-2011, 10:27 AM
that is good news. i am interested in reviewing the information you offered goober so please forward to me . thank you

goober
06-24-2011, 3:28 PM
Digital copy of letter sent to Sheriff Miller. Those of you that agreed to sign on, thank you. We will need to coordinate to get a hardcopy with physical signatures so that we can mail it in the next week or so. Easiest way may be a meetup at Markley's or somewhere, at least that way we can get a bunch done at once.

short circuit
06-24-2011, 5:48 PM
I would be happy to meet at Markley's to sign the letter. I am in Watsonville every week day for work.

lrcasey
06-24-2011, 10:04 PM
I can also meet at Markley's. Im in Monterey but I am always looking for an excuse to make it out there.

MountainMike
07-13-2011, 3:41 PM
Digital copy of letter sent to Sheriff Miller. Those of you that agreed to sign on, thank you. We will need to coordinate to get a hardcopy with physical signatures so that we can mail it in the next week or so. Easiest way may be a meetup at Markley's or somewhere, at least that way we can get a bunch done at once.
Any word from Miller?

Tripper
07-13-2011, 3:47 PM
meetup at markleys, sounds like a range day to me.

MountainMike
07-13-2011, 3:49 PM
Any particular day or time? Or do they have the petition on file?

goober
07-13-2011, 9:19 PM
No word from Miller or MCSO yet, folks. The two weeks he asked for have elapsed. I'm swamped w/ work right now but expect action soon on our parts. I'll keep you posted.
We will still probably need to get a hardcopy with sigs, but its not vital at this point.

rusty762
07-23-2011, 10:04 AM
Hi Guys,

just found this thread have not been on Calguns for a while. I live in Monterey and would be happy to add my signature to the list. Please let me know the day and time.

wildhawker
08-08-2011, 3:33 PM
All,

I need any members or friends of members of Laguna Seca Shooting Sports Association to confirm that Sheriff Scott Miller will be attending the monthly meeting this coming Wednesday, Aug. 12 at 7pm. We also need to confirm that the meeting will be held per the following, and that guests and "future members" can attend as well (per their instructions here (http://www.lsssa.org/LSSSA/Membership.html)):

Laguna Seca Shooting Sports Association holds a meeting the second Wednesday of each month at Marina Village Restaurant in Marina, CA at 7 pm.

Marina Village Restaurant
215 Reservation Rd Ste M
Marina CA
93933-3059
831-384-4711

Once we have this confirmed, I will update this post with the fire mission.

Think Sunnyvale.

-Brandon

Tripper
08-08-2011, 7:50 PM
bumpy

wildhawker
08-09-2011, 3:22 PM
All,

Here's where we are on this drill:

* It's been confirmed that the sheriff will be speaking at/engaging with residents at the below venue, but it sounds like there will be limited room due to high demand. We'll make sure that CGF/LSSSA members are informed on the issues and will try to have at least 1 CGF local leader in attendance.

* CGF just sent the Sheriff a letter requesting that he immediately adopt a lawful policy and begin accepting applications. We also sent a copy of our Model Policy and noted that we stand ready and willing to assist the Department in publishing an appropriate policy that respects state law and the constitutional rights of Monterey residents.

Monterey County residents: *NOW* would be a great time to mail/email/fax/deliver a copy of our model policy (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/25-ccwpolicy.html) with a request that Sheriff Miller adopt it and begin accepting applications. You might also want to point out our litigation of Rossow v. Merced and ask him to make sure his new policy fully comports with state law.

Monterey County Sheriff Scott Miller
County of Monterey
1414 Natividad Road
Salinas, California 93906
(831) 755-3700
(831) 755-3828 FAX

Sheriff Scott Miller will be attending the monthly LSSSA meeting this coming Wednesday, Aug. 10 at 7pm.

Laguna Seca Shooting Sports Association holds a meeting the second Wednesday of each month at Marina Village Restaurant in Marina, CA at 7 pm.

Marina Village Restaurant
215 Reservation Rd Ste M
Marina CA
93933-3059
831-384-4711


-Brandon

xrMike
08-11-2011, 11:22 AM
Monterey is now a "Shall Issue" county, folks. Right on.

goober
08-11-2011, 11:32 AM
Monterey is now a "Shall Issue" county, folks. Right on.

Depends on how one defines "Shall Issue"... But yes it appears things are looking up... More to come...

Snoopy47
08-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Monterey is now a "Shall Issue" county, folks. Right on.

Where did you hear that? Where can I confirm?

xrMike
08-11-2011, 12:25 PM
"Personal Protection" now qualifies as good cause. You won't need to provide more than that on your application.

Sheriff Miller said yesterday that his new policy should appear on the M.C.S.O. website today. I checked earlier but didn't see it up yet.

Psych evaluation + skills test required.

For more info, see the new web page (when it hits) or contact Commander Lisa Nash (831.755.3761 or nashla@co.monterey.ca.us).

goober
08-11-2011, 12:41 PM
"Personal Protection" now qualifies as good cause. You won't need to provide more than that on your application.

Sheriff Miller said yesterday that his new policy should appear on the M.C.S.O. website today. I checked earlier but didn't see it up yet.

Psych evaluation + skills test required.

For more info, see the new web page (when it hits) or contact Commander Lisa Nash (831.755.3761 or nashla@co.monterey.ca.us).

Its not up yet.
Here is what Miller said last night:

The new MCSO Carry License policy will be posted on their website by Friday or Monday at the latest.
As xrMike said, there is no longer any need for good cause statements involving carrying large sums of cash, or threats on your life, or anything like that; all one needs to put is "personal protection" and their good cause will be accepted.
However, "good moral character" is going to be harder to get than just passing a LiveScan and not being a prohibited person (which is all that would be required under a true "shall issue" policy).
In addition to the LiveScan ($135) check, there will be a background and psych evaluation. This will involve some or all of the following:
Personal history questionnaire
Home visit
Neighbor interviews
Employer/co-worker interviews
Psychological screening ($150)

Miller said that due to the tight budget on processing the applications, the background check will not be intense or intrusive; they simply don't have the funding to get very in depth.

If you make it through all the above then you will have to pay for the license ($80-100, I forget) and training (such as the ~$50 Markley's course; other options may be available).

They are supposed to start processing folks on the "waiting list" first, and then new apps. Commander Lisa Nash of the Professional Standards Division is the contact as indicated in xrMike's post.
Once things get underway and the kinks are out, Sheriff Miller estimated the entire process should take an applicant about a month to get through.

Connor P Price
08-11-2011, 1:01 PM
Good to see that they're being reasonable with good cause. Next they need to get rid of their unconstitutional requirements for proof of good moral character. What business is it of somebody's neighbor or coworkers to know they're getting a carry license?

goober
08-11-2011, 1:07 PM
Good to see that they're being reasonable with good cause. Next they need to get rid of their unconstitutional requirements for proof of good moral character. What business is it of somebody's neighbor or coworkers to know they're getting a carry license?

Agreed. Sheriff is being overly cautious b/c he's scared of giving out licenses to just anyone... It apparently isn't enough just to not be a prohibited person, you have to jump through extra hoops proving you're worthy.
I too think it is unreasonable to involve anyone but the applicant and his/her personal history/record in the evaluation of GMC.

Snoopy47
08-11-2011, 1:19 PM
The reality is however, politically, Monterey County’s issuance of CCW’s on a per capital basis is only better then two other counties in the State. Those are San Francisco, and Santa Clara.

So, to have a policy as open as this goes a LONG WAY!!!!!!!!!!! from where Monterey currently sits.

Don’t mess it up folks.

choprzrul
08-11-2011, 1:27 PM
They are going to get really tired really fast of doing all of those checks in the field.

Great job team CGF.

.

Window_Seat
08-11-2011, 1:38 PM
...
However, "good moral character" is going to be harder to get than just passing a LiveScan and not being a prohibited person (which is all that would be required under a true "shall issue" policy.
In addition to the LiveScan ($135) check, there will be a background and psyche evaluation. This will involve some or all of the following:
Personal history questionnaire
Home visit
Neighbor interviews
Employer/co-worker interviews
Psychological screening ($150)
...

This is like taking one bad policy, and replacing it with another bad policy. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... Taking one piece of trash, and replacing it with another piece of trash.

Sorry, this is the way I look at it.

Erik.

Liberty1
08-11-2011, 2:31 PM
It's a step in the right direction but the Sheriff needs to have a healthier fear of violating the constitution then of some bad press concerning someone's unlawful actions which cannot be controlled and for which the SO has NO liability.

CGF will correct the former in time. If the SO / county thinks the budget is tight why risk a million dollar + bill from a federal civil rights lawsuit?

wildhawker
08-11-2011, 2:32 PM
It's a step in the right direction but there Sheriff needs have a healthier fear of violating the constitution then of some bad press concerning someone's unlawful actions which cannot be controlled and for which the SO has NO liability.

CGF will correct the former in time. If the SO / county thinks the budget is tight why risk a million dollar + bill from a federal civil rights lawsuit?

This.

Funtimes
08-11-2011, 4:22 PM
Get a few permits issued and out there -- then correct the problem! Seems like it would be easier.

Tripper
08-12-2011, 6:24 AM
I expect Nash's phone will be blowing up today huh

xrMike
08-12-2011, 4:07 PM
I too think it is unreasonable to involve anyone but the applicant and his/her personal history/record in the evaluation of GMC.I understand your position, but you can't deny that talking to somebody's friends/neighbors/spouse is a pretty good way to get a feel for their "good moral character". The lack of a police record alone is insufficient grounds for guaranteed CCW, in my opinion. I say that because in the course of my life I've known more than a few people who had no record, but it was only a matter of time, due to their drug use, mental instability, or violent temper. I expect some of you will pile on me for having this opinion, but that's OK. It's based on my life experience.

I DON'T think they should be allowed to talk to your employer or co-workers. There's too much risk there, and could affect your livelihood! And if they talk to your neighbors, they should do it in a way that doesn't reveal the end purpose, like: "Hey, were doing a background check on your neighbor, Mike. He's applying for a permit with the county. No, I can't say what kind of permit. We just want to know if he's a decent guy and if he's ever caused any problems in the neighborhood, or with you personally. That's all. He's not under investigation for anything, he's committed no crimes, he's just applying for a permit, that's all."

Again, I have good relationships with my neighbors, so I'm not worried about what they'll say. For those of you with crack-head neighbors who would throw you under the bus, I do understand your concern about this issue...

The reality is however, politically, Monterey County’s issuance of CCW’s on a per capital basis is only better then two other counties in the State. Those are San Francisco, and Santa Clara.

So, to have a policy as open as this goes a LONG WAY!!!!!!!!!!! from where Monterey currently sits.

Don’t mess it up folks.

Totally agree with you here. Miller is not just taking one small step here, but a giant leap in the right direction. Let him go there and get comfortable with it. Wait for awhile. Nudge him further along with the CGF "big stick" only if it's determined a year from now that it's necessary. I think he's acting in good faith. He did say the BG investigation "didn't have to be perfect".

This is like taking one bad policy, and replacing it with another bad policy. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... Taking one piece of trash, and replacing it with another piece of trash. Sorry, this is the way I look at it.

I was at the 1st meeting (pre-election), but not the one on Wednesday night. I talked to a couple of people who were though. My gut feeling is that Miller is a straight-up guy who's not playing games and wants to do this in a way that miminally protects his office and department. Yeah, we all know his dept. is not CCW-liable per CA law, but tell that to a Sheriff whose department is facing multiple lawsuits right now. He's already given up one of the previous requirements he had (a $1 million personal liability coverage), so the man CAN be nudged...

Get a few permits issued and out there -- then correct the problem! Seems like it would be easier.

Yes! That is the right path at this time.

ETA: Almost forgot, I have no knowledge about what role CGF or anybody related to calguns had (if anything) in helping shape Miller's current policy, but if you guys did play a part, right on!

Liberty1
08-12-2011, 9:07 PM
xrMike,

The vast majority of states have some form of objective shall issue wherein there is no records check beyond determining the applicant is not prohibited by law (and many have unlicensed OC). Works fine for them. 4 states now have unlicensed constitutional carry (no training mandate or background check to carry). Works fine for them. Vermont has had it court protected for over one hundred years.

I've known more Californians who carry CC illegally then I have known with licenses (in my pre-LE field of work). No issues with any of them going off half cocked because their carrying wasn't blessed by the all knowing government agent.

There is no statistical evidence to show that government 'licensing' positively effects safety. What it does do is deter carry and tax the exercise of a fundamental Right and therefore makes us less safe as a society (where fewer carry criminals are emboldened).

goober
08-12-2011, 9:29 PM
xrMike,

The vast majority of states have some form of objective shall issue wherein there is no records check beyond determining the applicant is not prohibited by law. Works fine for them. 4 states now have unlicensed constitutional carry (no training mandate or background check to carry). Works fine for them. Vermont has had it court protected for over one hundred years.

I've known more Californians who carry CC illegally then I have known with licenses (in my pre-LE field of work). No issues with any of them going off half cocked because their carrying wasn't blessed by the all knowing government agent.

There is no statistical evidence to show that government 'licensing' positively effects safety. What it does do is deter carry and tax the exercise of a fundamental Right and therefore makes us less safe as a society (where fewer carry criminals are emboldened).

^this, again.

Drivedabizness
08-14-2011, 6:04 PM
They are not afraid of a big lawsuit for GMC grounds... CGF is still "playing nice" on that one (e.g Sac SO). I'll take it on faith that there are good strategic reasons why.

lrcasey
08-15-2011, 8:48 AM
Is this up on their site yet? I looked but I could not find it.

goober
08-15-2011, 8:06 PM
Is this up on their site yet? I looked but I could not find it.

http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/sheriff/ccw-information.htm

MountainMike
08-15-2011, 9:39 PM
At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.
Well that rules me out. My neighbors are uptight middle class socialists.

lrcasey
08-16-2011, 5:13 AM
Thanks for the link. That's a bummer about having to meet with your co-workers. My job is very anti-gun. Bummer.

Paladin
08-20-2011, 12:35 PM
At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

. . .

Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

I think that the sheriff will have difficulty ensuring that a negative response from one of your neighbors/coworkers/other is in fact based upon their opinion of you getting a LTC vs their opinion of anyone getting a LTC. IOW, all it takes is for the sheriff's department to, by chance, interview 1 person who knows you and is an anti and that anti stops you from being able to defend your life! :mad:

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one.Hmm. So some people who can legally carry a loaded firearm in their home "shouldn't" be allowed to legally carry a loaded handgun in public? I guess the sheriff actually believes that if they wanted to go nuts and kill a bunch of people, that fact that they don't have a LTC would somehow stop them. :rolleyes: You would think a sheriff would have been in LE long enough to realize that laws are used to punish people after the fact, that they can't prevent criminal acts if people want to carry them out.

lrcasey
08-20-2011, 6:36 PM
I guess we will just have to see how it plays out with the first few licenses issued and any problems that they run into.

Paladin
08-21-2011, 12:41 AM
San Benito and Fresno counties -- both neighbors of Monterey Co. -- switched to accepting self-defense as Good Cause a couple of years ago and have not had any problems that I've heard about.

Anyone know if that (along w/41 Shall Issue states) influenced the Monterey Co sheriff in liberalizing issuance?

ParadigmGuy
09-23-2011, 9:37 PM
So are we GTG to apply? I'm moving to Monterey in 3 months.

Tripper
09-23-2011, 9:51 PM
Yes, You can apply.
What is asked, is that you can report back as to your experience with the application process.
Please contact Wildhawker, or goober..

goober
09-23-2011, 10:04 PM
news coming soon.
information is being gathered on the nature of the application/interview/evaluation process.
as expected, it appears to go far beyond what is allowed under PC12051 and is significantly invasive and onerous.
that being said, we have yet to see whether the new policy will result in actual LTCs being issued. but the issuance rate couldn't be much worse than it was under the previous policy.

Ocular_Trauma
09-30-2011, 5:18 PM
I've been out of the loop for about 6 months, the thread was a heck of a good read.news coming soon.
information is being gathered on the nature of the application/interview/evaluation process.
as expected, it appears to go far beyond what is allowed under PC12051 and is significantly invasive and onerous.
that being said, we have yet to see whether the new policy will result in actual LTCs being issued. but the issuance rate couldn't be much worse than it was under the previous policy.Thanks for the update goober. Information is welcome, good or bad. This turn definitely rains on my parade.

goober
10-14-2011, 12:07 PM
As discussed previously in this thread, MCSO finally began accepting LTC applications a couple months ago, under their newly unveiled "shall issue" policy.

The new policy is apparently what most would consider shall-issue with respect to the good cause (GC) requirement, but far from it when it comes to establishing good moral character (GMC). Personal defense is (supposedly) being accepted as GC. But the GMC evaluation involves a series of invasive and intrusive interviews (both for the applicant and their employer/coworkers/neighbors), home visits, voice stress analyses, psychological evaluations, and the like, most of which go far beyond what is allowable under PC 12050-12054. They are basically subjecting LTC applicants to the same process and scrutiny that prospective MCSO sheriff's deputy applicants must undergo. But if you've read this thread you know all this already.

Now that the policy has been in effect for some time, we need to begin compiling information regarding peoples' experiences with the application process.
By collecting these data we can better understand how the new MCSO policy really performs in practice vs. theory.

So, if you have applied, please PM me and share as much as you are willing regarding your experience. If you've received your LTC, we need to know. If you were denied, it will help to know that too. And any observations regarding the actual experience itself are invaluable. How were you treated? Was it casual, relaxed, and pleasant, stressful and scary, or somewhere in between? How long did each step, and the total process, take?

And if you have not applied (due to the cost, invasive nature of the GMC tests, or any other reason), but wish you could, please communicate that as well.

Anything you share will be held in strict confidence. It is not necessary to reveal any personal information regarding identity or anything else.

Thank you all for your help with this project.

goober
10-16-2011, 9:22 AM
Sunday morning bump for the weekend folks.

ParadigmGuy
10-16-2011, 6:59 PM
I'm moving to Monterey for 2 years to attend Naval Postgraduate School. Any chance of me being able to get a LTC while there? My current duty station is San Diego, and I'll likely be coming back here afterward.

goober
10-20-2011, 2:17 PM
I'm moving to Monterey for 2 years to attend Naval Postgraduate School. Any chance of me being able to get a LTC while there? My current duty station is San Diego, and I'll likely be coming back here afterward.

Jury is still out on the new issuance rate and how the overly strict GMC evaluation is playing out, but it sounds as if you'd be a great test case, if nothing else :D
Stay tuned as we gather more data on grantings & denials now that applications are being accepted.

goober
10-21-2011, 1:43 PM
As discussed previously in this thread, MCSO finally began accepting LTC applications a couple months ago, under their newly unveiled "shall issue" policy.

The new policy is apparently what most would consider shall-issue with respect to the good cause (GC) requirement, but far from it when it comes to establishing good moral character (GMC). Personal defense is (supposedly) being accepted as GC. But the GMC evaluation involves a series of invasive and intrusive interviews (both for the applicant and their employer/coworkers/neighbors), home visits, voice stress analyses, psychological evaluations, and the like, most of which go far beyond what is allowable under PC 12050-12054. They are basically subjecting LTC applicants to the same process and scrutiny that prospective MCSO sheriff's deputy applicants must undergo. But if you've read this thread you know all this already.

Now that the policy has been in effect for some time, we need to begin compiling information regarding peoples' experiences with the application process.
By collecting these data we can better understand how the new MCSO policy really performs in practice vs. theory.

So, if you have applied, please PM me and share as much as you are willing regarding your experience. If you've received your LTC, we need to know. If you were denied, it will help to know that too. And any observations regarding the actual experience itself are invaluable. How were you treated? Was it casual, relaxed, and pleasant, stressful and scary, or somewhere in between? How long did each step, and the total process, take?

And if you have not applied (due to the cost, invasive nature of the GMC tests, or any other reason), but wish you could, please communicate that as well.

Anything you share will be held in strict confidence. It is not necessary to reveal any personal information regarding identity or anything else.

Thank you all for your help with this project.

I've received a few reports from folks that have applied (or want to, but haven't) regarding their experience with the process. Thanks to all that have responded.
Keep 'em comin'!

Chief-7700
10-21-2011, 6:44 PM
Thank You.
Chief

ParadigmGuy
10-28-2011, 7:33 AM
Jury is still out on the new issuance rate and how the overly strict GMC evaluation is playing out, but it sounds as if you'd be a great test case, if nothing else :D
Stay tuned as we gather more data on grantings & denials now that applications are being accepted.
I have plenty of paperwork (17 years worth) to back GMC and my bro-in-law is a Sherriff's Deputy here in San Diego. So, I don't think GMC will be an issue. If personal defense is enough for GC, then it's looks like I should be good to go. I'm excited.

I move up there in January and will begin the process as soon as I can. I'll be up there in December to find a place to live, so maybe I'll stop by the Sherriff's Department (in Salinas?) to start the process.

goober
10-28-2011, 7:39 AM
I have plenty of paperwork (17 years worth) to back GMC and my bro-in-law is a Sherriff's Deputy here in San Diego. So, I don't think GMC will be an issue. If personal defense is enough for GC, then it's looks like I should be good to go. I'm excited.

I move up there in January and will begin the process as soon as I can. I'll be up there in December to find a place to live, so maybe I'll stop by the Sherriff's Department (in Salinas?) to start the process.

Sounds good, you can check out the MCSO policy information and application info here (http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/sheriff/ccw-information.htm).

By the time your ready to apply, the LTC Ambassador program should be well underway, so there will be plenty of info and help available should you need it.

ParadigmGuy
10-28-2011, 10:22 AM
I suppose my only concern is them talking to my neighbors. I'm fine if they talk to my neighbors down here in San Diego. But none of my neighbors will know me in Monterey. Hopefully that won't be an issue.

goober
11-16-2011, 8:37 AM
As discussed previously in this thread, MCSO finally began accepting LTC applications a couple months ago, under their newly unveiled "shall issue" policy.

The new policy is apparently what most would consider shall-issue with respect to the good cause (GC) requirement, but far from it when it comes to establishing good moral character (GMC). Personal defense is (supposedly) being accepted as GC. But the GMC evaluation involves a series of invasive and intrusive interviews (both for the applicant and their employer/coworkers/neighbors), home visits, voice stress analyses, psychological evaluations, and the like, most of which go far beyond what is allowable under PC 12050-12054. They are basically subjecting LTC applicants to the same process and scrutiny that prospective MCSO sheriff's deputy applicants must undergo. But if you've read this thread you know all this already.

Now that the policy has been in effect for some time, we need to begin compiling information regarding peoples' experiences with the application process.
By collecting these data we can better understand how the new MCSO policy really performs in practice vs. theory.

So, if you have applied, please PM me and share as much as you are willing regarding your experience. If you've received your LTC, we need to know. If you were denied, it will help to know that too. And any observations regarding the actual experience itself are invaluable. How were you treated? Was it casual, relaxed, and pleasant, stressful and scary, or somewhere in between? How long did each step, and the total process, take?

And if you have not applied (due to the cost, invasive nature of the GMC tests, or any other reason), but wish you could, please communicate that as well.

Anything you share will be held in strict confidence. It is not necessary to reveal any personal information regarding identity or anything else.

Thank you all for your help with this project.

^ Bumpity.

goober
12-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Bump for updates from any applicants willing to share their experience. PM me with any info please.

ParadigmGuy
12-20-2011, 9:44 PM
Bump for updates from any applicants willing to share their experience. PM me with any info please.
I found a place to live (in Monterey) last week and will be moving there on the 1st. I plan to swing by the Sheriff's Office on the 2nd.

ap430
12-26-2011, 11:33 PM
I plan on applying... but just unsure yet. Partly because I may be going overseas sooner or later so it might not be worth it. When I was stationed in the good ole state of North Carolina I had a CCW, and I totally miss exercising my right to carry!!! Monterey county has been my main home of residence for over 10 years now but if I have to leave for work I might miss any interviews that would be required.

I don't know how the whole talking to your neighbors thing would work with me. I honestly don't even know who my neighbors are and they don't know me either.

ParadigmGuy
01-08-2012, 3:03 PM
I called on Friday (and left a voice mail) to schedule my interview and start my background screening process.

ParadigmGuy
01-09-2012, 8:00 PM
Interview and fingerprints scheduled for next week.

candidviews
01-20-2012, 4:48 PM
Inquiring minds would love to know...

ParadigmGuy
01-20-2012, 6:51 PM
Inquiring minds would love to know...
Interview and fingerprinting is complete, it's pretty thorough. I need to schedule an appointment with a psychotherapist and need to fire my weapons (that I want to carry) at a range to get a certificate stating that I can qualify with my weapons. The process to get approved could take up to 90 days. I'll post back when I have an update.

So far out of pocket expense is $135. The psychotherapist will be about $150, and then range will be about $50, not counting my own ammo expense.

goober
01-20-2012, 7:24 PM
Interview and fingerprinting is complete, it's pretty thorough. I need to schedule an appointment with a psychotherapist and need to fire my weapons (that I want to carry) at a range to get a certificate stating that I can qualify with my weapons. The process to get approved could take up to 90 days. I'll post back when I have an update.

So far out of pocket expense is $135. The psychotherapist will be about $150, and then range will be about $50, not counting my own ammo expense.

thanks for the update, ParadigmGuy. keep us posted if you don't mind, OK?

candidviews
01-21-2012, 10:05 AM
Thank you so much for keeping us informed.
Do they select the therapist or give you a list? How long was the interview?
Thanks and good luck!

goober
01-21-2012, 10:23 AM
Thank you so much for keeping us informed.
Do they select the therapist or give you a list? How long was the interview?
Thanks and good luck!

ParadigmGuy can confirm, but I believe they choose the venue for the psych test, and it takes several (4+) hours, most of which is spent taking a written/multiple choice test, with a short in-person interview w/ the therapist/analyst.

Also, ParadigmGuy, did you have the home/neighbor/workplace visits/interviews yet, and if so, how did those go?

Chief-7700
01-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Interview and fingerprinting is complete, it's pretty thorough. I need to schedule an appointment with a psychotherapist and need to fire my weapons (that I want to carry) at a range to get a certificate stating that I can qualify with my weapons. The process to get approved could take up to 90 days. I'll post back when I have an update.

So far out of pocket expense is $135. The psychotherapist will be about $150, and then range will be about $50, not counting my own ammo expense.

The Psych test is the Bay Area and they only take cash. Plan on spending the day there.

ParadigmGuy
01-21-2012, 8:40 PM
thanks for the update, ParadigmGuy. keep us posted if you don't mind, OK?
Will do.

Thank you so much for keeping us informed.
Do they select the therapist or give you a list? How long was the interview?
Thanks and good luck!
They select the therapist, and the range. The interview was about an hour. I didn't check my watch when I went it though, so it may have been a bit longer or a bit shorter.

ParadigmGuy can confirm, but I believe they choose the venue for the psych test, and it takes several (4+) hours, most of which is spent taking a written/multiple choice test, with a short in-person interview w/ the therapist/analyst.

Also, ParadigmGuy, did you have the home/neighbor/workplace visits/interviews yet, and if so, how did those go?
I haven't had the home/neighbor/work visits or interviews yet. I'm in the military and new to the area, so my neighbors don't really know me. I also need to get them info on co-workers and my current boss that they can contact. The interviewer (investigator) explained that he just wants to talk to them to see if I appear to have an aggressive personality that would cause them to not want to approve the CCW permit. Something along the lines of me threatening them or their dog, yelling at them about parking, or anything along those lines.

DC-8
01-22-2012, 1:31 AM
Interesting to see how this process plays out for you ParadigmGuy and I certainly hope they approve you for an LTC! My gut feeling is that your standing as member of the military will go a long way for the MCSO. As a longtime resident of Monterey County it is certainly nice to see the MCSO opening up (even if just a little bit) on the LTC front. That said, I honestly still do not expect the MCSO to issue too many permits despite the increased transparency simply because many of us interested in getting an LTC would probably have our applications stymied by our neighbors.

Regardless, I wish I still lived permanently in Monterey County as I would try my luck at applying regardless. Unfortunately Santa Clara County where I now reside has a less than stellar record when it comes to issuing CCWs.

rtlltj
01-24-2012, 2:29 PM
Not going to waste my time till I can apply without having to explain to my coworkers and boss why I think I need to have a CCW. I'm sure everyone knows how the stigma behind owning guns is played out in california workplaces.

candidviews
02-01-2012, 9:18 PM
Interesting to see how this process plays out for you ParadigmGuy and I certainly hope they approve you for an LTC! My gut feeling is that your standing as member of the military will go a long way for the MCSO. As a longtime resident of Monterey County it is certainly nice to see the MCSO opening up (even if just a little bit) on the LTC front. That said, I honestly still do not expect the MCSO to issue too many permits despite the increased transparency simply because many of us interested in getting an LTC would probably have our applications stymied by our neighbors.

Regardless, I wish I still lived permanently in Monterey County as I would try my luck at applying regardless. Unfortunately Santa Clara County where I now reside has a less than stellar record when it comes to issuing CCWs.

I keep coming back to this message and think about it...hard. Being in the military should have no bearing. Being an upstanding law abiding citizen with no disqualifications as a matter of law should be it. Likewise, since it shouldn't be a game of favorites or a lottery, trying your "luck" should be wholly unnecessary. Just reminding us all that we so easily lapse into thinking we have to "prove something" beyond our basic qualifications, clean record and good character. Anything more is games by the powers that be. And from Monterey county's gauntlet, it appears they have gone WAY beyond what the law requires to chill applicants.

DC-8
02-01-2012, 11:03 PM
I keep coming back to this message and think about it...hard. Being in the military should have no bearing. Being an upstanding law abiding citizen with no disqualifications as a matter of law should be it. Likewise, since it shouldn't be a game of favorites or a lottery, trying your "luck" should be wholly unnecessary. Just reminding us all that we so easily lapse into thinking we have to "prove something" beyond our basic qualifications, clean record and good character. Anything more is games by the powers that be. And from Monterey county's gauntlet, it appears they have gone WAY beyond what the law requires to chill applicants.

I completely agree with you candidviews and I too hope that simply being a honest, respectable and law abiding citizen would be enough to qualify for a CCW. As you have said, being a current or former member of the military should have no bearing one's ability to obtain a CCW.

I would rather not have to prove anything and I am certainly not going to lapse into that mentality. That said, I am faced with a difficult choice, to apply for a CCW and tacitly accept this kind of scrutiny into my life or to not apply and continue to fight for more sane standards. I can't honestly fault anyone for their decision one way or the other but it is a difficult choice and one that I should not have to make in the first place.

As long as these onerous "good character" requirements are in place however, it is my firm belief, unfortunately, that members of the military will get a significant leg up in their applications, simply because their character will not face as much initial suspicion as that of an average citizen of this county. I believe that within the MCSO especially and all law enforcement agencies more generally (where their are naturally fair number of ex-military folks) there is a general assumption that simply being a current or former member of the military attaches an aura of infallibility to one's "good character" requirement on a CCW application.

Of course, it is a very sad day that I have to even give credence to the idea that one faces "initial suspicion" in one's right to defend oneself.

wildhawker
02-23-2012, 10:29 PM
CGF in the news re Monterey County: http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_20033908/scrutiny-gun-permits-gets-tighter

Ref'ed letter: http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/32-monterey.html

-Brandon

DC-8
02-23-2012, 11:13 PM
Thanks for posting this link wildhawker!

CGF in the news re Monterey County: http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_20033908/scrutiny-gun-permits-gets-tighter

Ref'ed letter: http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/32-monterey.html

-Brandon

Miller said the application process "was really uneven and undemocratic." Now, he said, "virtually anyone can apply."

One group routinely granted the permits has been Monterey County's all-volunteer Aero Squadron, a group of about 20 pilots who give free flight services to local government officials and help with search and rescue missions.

"I would always say OK to the aero squad guys," Monarque said. "They have more firearms training than a deputy has in a year. So I would say yes to them."

Wow. "I would always say OK to the aero squad guys" is exactly the same sort "uneven and undemocratic process" Miller supposedly railed against. What hypocrisy. I am prepared to bet many on this forum spend more time training and shooting than many an MCSO deputy and I'll be they would probably get denied. Cronyism at its finest. From this article, it sounds like the spirit of the policies Miller is planning on instituting is no better than that of his predecessor, Mike Kanalakis.

candidviews
02-24-2012, 7:05 AM
From this article, it sounds like the spirit of the policies Miller is planning on instituting is no better than that of his predecessor, Mike Kanalakis.

From the raw numbers of granted versus turndowns, it looks WORSE!

Tripper
02-24-2012, 7:18 AM
I am prepared to bet many on this forum spend more time training and shooting than many an MCSO deputy and I'll be they would probably get denied.

dont be so quick to make that bet, many a deputies there do a fair amount of shooting

Lives_In_Fresno
02-24-2012, 7:42 AM
I have heard that some (all?) Monterey applicants are subjected to a lie detector test and are asked questions potentially going back 20+ years...

Is this true?

Tripper
02-24-2012, 7:47 AM
Applicants 'were' going through, Voice Stress Analysis, not sure if thats across the board any longer, might have changed to Polygraph

goober
02-24-2012, 8:03 AM
I have heard that some (all?) Monterey applicants are subjected to a lie detector test and are asked questions potentially going back 20+ years...

Is this true?

As Tripper noted, VSA was being used for sure, don't have any accounts of actual polygraph on top of that, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
And yes, a very extensive interview during which the applicant is asked detailed questions regarding their history and background, including whether they have ever committed (not arrested or convicted, just "have you ever.... ?") numerous crimes, many of which should have no bearing on eligibility for an LTC. Applicants are asked if they have ever tried just about every illicit drug there is, ever hired a prostitute, etc., in addition to questions about legal activities ("ever sold a gun?") that for some reason MCSO thinks are relevant.
The VSA is one of their ways of evaluating whether you answered all those probing questions truthfully or not.

Thanks for the article, Brandon! :D

xrMike
02-24-2012, 11:53 AM
The prostitute question would be tricky, since technically, I've paid for sex before... Haven't we all, in one way or another?

candidviews
02-24-2012, 1:28 PM
I guess they will start publishing rape victims' names next as one poster said.
I know that Calguns said some time ago that "Monterey County has heard from us". Whatever they "heard" seems to have achieved nothing. Maybe it is time to take them to task and force a rational change.

candidviews
02-24-2012, 1:51 PM
http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_20033908/scrutiny-gun-permits-gets-tighter#

Irresponsible journalism at its loweest form....

Lives_In_Fresno
02-24-2012, 3:43 PM
The prostitute question would be tricky, since technically, I've paid for sex before... Haven't we all, in one way or another?

I don't think there is much fuzz on the question though...Most of us have taken a gal out and hoped for extra entertainment later, but that is much different (thankfully) than hiring a hooker.

model63
02-25-2012, 7:27 AM
Are those folks names of permits in the county at the bottom of the article? So for all the efforts for Good Cause statements being redacted am I ultimately going to be subject to having my name posted online for LTC when the entire point is for it to be concealed. As extensive as that testing is for Monterey County and with the public posting of names, they might as well make the permit loaded open carry and give us a cracker jack box badge complete with target that says shoot me in the back.

badduggy
02-27-2012, 8:07 AM
at what point in the process is the truth verification exam administered?

Chief-7700
02-27-2012, 8:21 AM
at what point in the process is the truth verification exam administered?

During your first interview with the Investigator.

ParadigmGuy
03-11-2012, 3:28 PM
I did my interview in January. I didn't have any sort of truth verification exam.

goober
03-11-2012, 3:52 PM
I did my interview in January. I didn't have any sort of truth verification exam.

Thanks for the confirmation, PG...
This means either:
a) MCSO is no longer using VSA during the interview process
or
b) they are using it selectively and did not subject you to VSA for their own reasons

Given your background and profession, and what we know about MCSO policy, I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
Either way this is good information that we can use moving forward.
Please keep us posted on your application status if you would (PM is fine if you'd rather not post in the forum).

Every applicant "story" is helpful; if there are any others reading this that have applied for an LTC in Monterey County, please post or PM me to share your experience, it will help the Sunshine Initiative effort greatly. All information shared will be kept confidential.

wildhawker
03-11-2012, 4:20 PM
Can Monterey residents/C3 arrange to push on this? I am very interested in knowing which one it is, very soon.

-Brandon

Thanks for the confirmation, PG...
This means either:
a) MCSO is no longer using VSA during the interview process
or
b) they are using it selectively and did not subject you to VSA for their own reasons

Given your background and profession, and what we know about MCSO policy, I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
Either way this is good information that we can use moving forward.
Please keep us posted on your application status if you would (PM is fine if you'd rather not post in the forum).

Every applicant "story" is helpful; if there are any others reading this that have applied for an LTC in Monterey County, please post or PM me to share your experience, it will help the Sunshine Initiative effort greatly. All information shared will be kept confidential.

goober
03-11-2012, 4:25 PM
Can Monterey residents/C3 arrange to push on this? I am very interested in knowing which one it is, very soon.

-Brandon

on it.

you heard him, folks-
if you are a Monterey Co. resident and have applied for LTC though MCSO, please PM me and indicate when your interview took place as well as whether you were subjected to a VSA.
if you've already contacted me, no need to do so again unless you did not address these questions in your previous account.

goober
03-12-2012, 1:17 PM
i have a second report of an MCSO LTC applicant that was not subjected to VSA in a recent interview.
anyone else care to share?

specifically, what would be most helpful to know is if anyone has applied recently (this year) and DID have to do a VSA.
but all accounts are of interest.

HowardW56
04-04-2012, 7:25 PM
UPDATE latest batch of approved good cause statements can be found HERE (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/75-monterey-county-approved-good-cause.html). (Added 4/4/12)

ParadigmGuy
06-14-2012, 12:29 PM
I’ve got it in hand, and I wanted to share my positive experience. I received a call last Friday from the Monterey County Sheriff's office investigator saying that I’d been approved. I had finals all this week so I just picked it up yesterday; I was in the midst of studying up until now so I didn't take them time to drive out there to pick it up.

Before I start in on the details of it all, I want to say that everyone involved from the Monterey Sheriff's Office was very friendly and very professional. At every step it seemed like they wanted to help me get through the process, not like they wanted to prevent me from it. I was very pleasantly surprised.

My first step was calling the Sheriff's Officer, the receptionist (or whoever answered the phone) was not only knowledgeable about the process but directed me to the info on the Sheriff's website.

After submitting my application, I got a call from an investigator at the Sheriff's office asking for a home visit to meet my neighbors and verify my residence. I told him that I would be out of town all week so he offered to call me back the following week, he did. He offered to come by when I was done with work that day, he did.

He was prompt and friendly, asked some basic questions about interactions with my neighbors and how long I lived here. He also said that a potential sticking point could be if my weapons are not registered to me. I told him that I bought them both new, in California, and that they are registered to me. He seemed to legitimately telling me so we could prevent a snafu in the future. He asked if I had done my course at Markely's (for the CCW course) or the psych assessment. I told him that those are scheduled for later that month.

We chatted about some off topic political items, and then he left to meet my neighbors. He mentioned before he left that he didn't see any reason why I wouldn't approved. He was very friendly.

Next step was the psychological assessment. I had my psychological assessment with the Monterey County Law Enforcement Physiological Services. It consisted of four separate written exams and a sit down with a psychologist to discuss my answers from the exams. There were three other people there for the assessment, and the sit down with the psychologist was on a first come first serve basis based on who completed the written battery first. I was the first one finished, the others were asked to come back in increments of 30 minutes. We all took the test in the same room.

It took me about 4.5 hours from the time I walked in until I walked out. The actual written portion took me 3 hours and 45 minutes. There were four parts to it. One seemed to try to gauge personality (aggressive, passive, leader, etc.), another was personal life (how much do I drink, who raised me, do I have siblings, was I the youngest, old, middle child, etc.) and work history (how many jobs, have I received adverse evaluations, been late, been drunk at work, etc.), a third was more of a personality disorder exam (do I hear voices, is someone taking my thoughts, can others hear my thoughts, etc.), and the fourth was what I would deem as an intelligence test. The intelligence test was brought into us after about 2.5 hours. It consisted of 50 questions of increasing difficulty and was a timed 12 minute exam. I think that I was the most complete when they were collected with 33 correct answers. None of the questions were difficult, but I would have needed another six minutes to finish them all.

Once again, everyone was very friendly (psychologist, other test takers, and front desk clerk). Although I didn't ask the other test takers I think that they were all police officers based on the agency affiliation that they wrote on the sign in log.

After the psychological assessment I had my final step of the CCW process, the CCW course (they still call it a CCW here, not an LTC). Although, the actual piece of paper says License to Carry on it.

I showed up about 7:40 for my 8 AM course and was the first one there. The course is only offered at Markleys (indoor range and gun shop, 14 Blanca Lane, Watsonville, CA 95076), and seems to only be offered every few months; I've been waiting since February. It's in Santa Cruz county, but is only about 30 minutes from me, as opposed to the psychological assessment that was 1.5 hours.

Some of the attendees were there for an initial CCW, one was there for a renewal, and it seemed like most were there for basic hand gun safety. It was about two hours of instruction. Topics covered were: basic safety, composition of bullet cartridges, types of bullets, basic of pistols and revolvers, when we can and can't fire a weapon at someone, and where we can and cannot carry (with or without CCW).

After the classroom instruction we "qualified" with our weapons. I didn't know what the requirement was at the time, I was told he'd let me know after my course of fire. We fired at a basic target similar to the picture below and had to hit within the 8 point section. We were told that any rounds outside of the 8 were deductions.

http://www.copquest.com/64-2600.jpg

I had two weapons, M&P 40c and an M&P 340ct, both have CT grips. The course of fire was 3 meters, 5 meters, 7 meters, and 10 meters. It was 6 rounds each with my pistol and 5 rounds each with my revolver.

I fired first with my M&P 40c, using my laser. I had a fairly tight grouping at the 10 o'clock position of the bullseye (laser is slightly off). I dropped 3 low shots at the 7 meter range because I was going too fast and dipped. My 10 meter shots were grouped again. After my completed course of fire he told me that I'd have to fire again, this time without my laser.

I switched to my 340ct, and fired the course of fire without the laser. Most of them were grouped but I had a few outliers, but still all within the 8 range.

I went back to my M&P 40c and through the course of fire again. I shot all 24 within the range, and had a 25th round at the 7 o'clock position in the 6 point range. My rounds weren't so tight that they couldn't be counted, and I had two remaining rounds from my box of 50. There were others firing at the same time (one of the staffers too), so I'm not sure where that stray 25th round came from (but I'm fairly confident that low round was not from my weapon).

He told me that I passed, we completed the paperwork and I paid. I was told that my letter of course completion will be mailed the next day. I received it about 9 days later, and I scanned and e-mailed it to the investigator. He let me know that he’d received it, and contacted all of my references the following day. I received the call about my approval about one month after finishing everything.

Just to reiterate, it was a very positive experience overall. I did start the process in January, but the delay was not due to the Sheriff's Department themselves, it was just getting through all of the steps.

Edit: My good cause statement word for word is: Personal protection and protection of my family. I am a Naval Officer with several years of firearms training including combat experience and my wife is an Emergency Medicine physician. With the increase of violent crime I am increasingly more aware and cautious of my surroundings and I want to do everything that I can to protect my family and myself.

goober
06-14-2012, 1:08 PM
Congrats, PG, and thank you for posting your experience!!! :cheers2:
I'm very happy that you made it through the process and had such good things to say about it; most of the accounts that have been shared have been markedly different.
Perhaps the way MCSO is handling things has improved, which is what we can all hope for. The alternative explanation is that you received special treatment due to your occupational status.
But whatever the case, good for you, and thanks once again for sharing!


ETA- Most applicants went through an extensive interview session that may have included VSA, between submitting their application/doing LiveScan, and the home/co-worker/employer interviews (if they get that far). Presumably this is so their LiveScan can clear before MCSO bothers with the interview (which makes sense). It sounds from the above and your previous posts like you did the interview (1-2 hr +) the same day as your LiveScan, but did not undergo VSA. Can you confirm this?

ParadigmGuy
06-14-2012, 2:17 PM
Congrats, PG, and thank you for posting your experience!!! :cheers2:
I'm very happy that you made it through the process and had such good things to say about it; most of the accounts that have been shared have been markedly different.
Perhaps the way MCSO is handling things has improved, which is what we can all hope for. The alternative explanation is that you received special treatment due to your occupational status.
But whatever the case, good for you, and thanks once again for sharing!


ETA- Most applicants went through an extensive interview session that may have included VSA, between submitting their application/doing LiveScan, and the home/co-worker/employer interviews (if they get that far). Presumably this is so their LiveScan can clear before MCSO bothers with the interview (which makes sense). It sounds from the above and your previous posts like you did the interview (1-2 hr +) the same day as your LiveScan, but did not undergo VSA. Can you confirm this?
I mentioned it earlier, but forgot to comment on it in the longer post. The initial interview wasn't anything too intense, but was thorough. The was no VSA at any point for me, nor is there any mention of it on anything I've found other than here. The interview was the same day as my fingerprinting.

Maybe they only do a VSA if they suspect someone isn't telling the truth (as you alluded to earlier). I was open and upfront about everything, even telling them about an arrest when I was 15/16 that they likely wouldn't have found on their own. It could also be my background, or how I present myself.

I carry myself well, have 17+ years in the military, and my brother-in-law, whom I've known for 12ish years, is a San Diego sheriff's deputy. Although none of that should come into play much, it does lend to 'good moral character' which is one of their requirements.

Ocular_Trauma
01-10-2013, 11:26 AM
I hope I'm OK bumping up this thread, it made me check the little box. Was unsure where to post this otherwise.

Interesting development for current Monterey County CCW holders: http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/2013/jan/03/local-spin-killing-monsters/

I'm not 100% sure how I feel about this yet, but I encourage you to read THE ENTIRE ARTICLE before replying.

On one hand, we all know the CCW list is public record. The only thing that stops me from obtaining this list is the effort required to do it. I currently don't care to do so thus I do not have the list.

On the other hand, I don't feel its right to publish the names AND home address of private citizens. With just a name, you have a certain, if only minor amount of anonymity, an address removes any doubt and give you a physical location to find someone. If someone wants to go look it up, good for them. Make them put in the effort and figure out how to do it. I find it irresponsible to spoon feed my personal information to people in such a manner. Granted I'm not on that list, but you get the idea.

The Weekly has published the list of Monterey County citizens who hold concealed-carry permits – people who are not law enforcement but who have the right to carry a weapon. In the past, it’s been a highly politicized process, with former sheriffs giving permits to well-placed friends. We’re going to publish that list again, and not just because we can, but because it’s worth a deeper look at what should be the difficult process of obtaining that permit. Has the process gotten more difficult under Sheriff Scott Miller? Do concealed-carry holders really feel more safe? And about those response times… 


Call 2013 our own Year of the Gun, because we’re going to be talking about it a lot.

I have Mary Duan's home address, confirmed this morning. I acquired it after about 15 minutes of research through publicly available sources after I read the article. I wonder how Mary and The Weekly would feel about me wanting to include that information in their newspaper via a paid advertisement in the same issue they plan to post the CCW license holders list? I may send her an email and ask.

Tripper
01-10-2013, 11:34 AM
i really dont see why this hasnt been made illegal, I know its public info, but it should not be able to get personally identifiable information, I have rights too, and this seems to trample on them

ParadigmGuy
01-10-2013, 11:53 PM
I have no problem with my neighbors or anyone else knowing that I have a LTC. IMO, it will only make a person less likely to break into my home.

It seems that the Salinas Chief of Police may not know what he's talking about in regards to violent crime, which likely why the Salinas crime rate is significantly higher than surrounding cities.

Tripper
01-11-2013, 8:57 AM
Less likely 'while you are home' of course
Not all my neighbors are upstanding citizens, a couple are documented gang bangers, a couple are convicted thieves
I really don't need them being spoon fed information on me

insin
02-06-2013, 9:46 PM
Hello all,
I am interested in possibly "considering" starting the CCW process. I currently live in the city of Monterey. I have been told by an acquaintance who is a current PG police officer that the Monterey chief of police is not too CCW friendly for normal joes. I have no idea how much this would affect my chances of successfully obtaining a CCW. I have just started work in PG, so I figured that I would give it some time so that my employer could give an accurate depiction of my good/moral/ethical character. In the meantime I was wondering if it was even worth the attempt. If I am correct, I would be applying for my CCW via the Monterey police department instead of the Monterey county sheriff office? I am not sure if it is appropriate to post my good cause statement that I have in mind here openly, however if anyone more knowledgeable would like to help me out via PM and tell me what you think regarding my good cause statement, then I would appreciate it immensely. Thank you.

goober
02-06-2013, 9:50 PM
welcome, insin.
you need to apply to the MCSO, not the MPD.
good luck.

ParadigmGuy
02-06-2013, 11:14 PM
Hello all,
I am interested in possibly "considering" starting the CCW process. I currently live in the city of Monterey. I have been told by an acquaintance who is a current PG police officer that the Monterey chief of police is not too CCW friendly for normal joes. I have no idea how much this would affect my chances of successfully obtaining a CCW. I have just started work in PG, so I figured that I would give it some time so that my employer could give an accurate depiction of my good/moral/ethical character. In the meantime I was wondering if it was even worth the attempt. If I am correct, I would be applying for my CCW via the Monterey police department instead of the Monterey county sheriff office? I am not sure if it is appropriate to post my good cause statement that I have in mind here openly, however if anyone more knowledgeable would like to help me out via PM and tell me what you think regarding my good cause statement, then I would appreciate it immensely. Thank you.
I live in Monterey and have a LTC. I explained the process earlier in this thread.

The Monterey County Sheriff says that self defense is good cause and that's what I had on my application.

insin
02-09-2013, 1:48 PM
Thank you. I will look to the mcso's website as well as contact them some time early this week. We'll see how it goes.

insin
02-10-2013, 4:38 PM
Does anyone have any idea if a previous misdemeanor DUI (Jan 2010) and then a subsequent enrollment into an alcohol recovery center would disqualify one from eligibility? Completing the alcohol recovery program and continuing to attend regular AA meetings is something that I did/do voluntarily. I had a problem and asked for help. Sober 3 years now. I would hate to have this issue be the reason I didn't qualify, but I would hate it more to put my name out there and get denied for a reason I would never have qualified for in the first place and have the "denial of application" stigma forever attached to any subsequent applications.

It doesn't seem to be specifically listed in the prohibited items, however the AA and recovery center portion of my history worries me.

What do you think?

goober
02-10-2013, 5:03 PM
You never know unless you try, but I wouldn't be surprised if they deny you based on the DUI.
If you do decide to apply, be completely honest about the entire history.

insin
02-10-2013, 5:29 PM
Perhaps it best to wait until the 5 year mark (post DUI) since I am still on probation for the misdemenor DUI. I can wait 2 more years. This way I can provide a more favorable answer to questions 7 and 8 (section 2) to where at least my paper application won't be rubber stamped as denied.

omnitravis
02-12-2013, 7:22 AM
The first link in the first post is 404d.

goober
02-12-2013, 7:46 AM
The first link in the first post is 404d.

UPDATED 2nd link works for me.

delivers1234
08-09-2013, 8:23 PM
Hi All,

Any updates as to the LTC process in Monterey? Are more people being approved? Any recent stories?

Sounds like personal defense of self and family is the best statement for good cause.

Any insights?

I'm am looking in to buying 2 subcompacts soon then...applying...


e

sbcfd
10-07-2013, 8:43 AM
Just moved from San benito county to monterey county. I know my ccw doesn't transfer but will coming from another county with a ccw speed things up

Yaki
11-16-2013, 8:41 AM
I was arrested in 89 (20 y.o.). I plead to misd resisting and misd obstruction. In 95 I plead guilty to misd D.U.I. Kept my nose clean and been a model citizen since then.
I had no hopes of getting approved but someone told me you won't know until you try. My good cause was self defense, period.
While I was initially denied after going thru Interview, psych exam, home visit, Markley's class. I appealed with no expectations. Met with the sheriff for
about 15 minutes. Felt like talking to an acquaintance. The appeal ended with him saying he wanted to meet me and get a feel for me.
2 weeks later his office called and said he approved m ccw.
The reason I'm telling my story is to let others know that the only way to get approved is to apply. Be 100% honest (I was). Don't go in with prepared statements. Your best bet is go in and be yourself, unless yourself has a bad personality.

goober
11-16-2013, 9:15 AM
Very interesting, thank you Yaki for sharing your story. Must say I am happily surprised to hear you got approval finally. It is not right that you had to go through so much to get your LTC, but I'm glad your perseverance paid off.
Thanks once again for posting your experience, this kind of information is very helpful.

Tripper
11-16-2013, 9:26 AM
Your best bet is go in and be yourself, unless yourself has a bad personality.

dang, I'm in trouble........

but seriously, thanks for sharing your experience.
Sheriff does have that acquaintance type attitude.

blofeld42
04-07-2014, 7:46 AM
Any thoughts on the 2014 Monterey County sheriff's race? It's Miller vs. Steve Bernal. Miller will issue for self defense, though the "good character" background check is stiff.

Bernal's position on CCW is here:

http://www.bernalforsheriff.com/ConcealedCarry.asp

"This is why my evaluation standards will follow the process that previous Sheriffs have used"

This is ambiguous enough that it leaves him room to return to the old practice of issuing only to cronies. The more so because he's endorsed by Sonne, a previous sheriff who was no-issue.

Does anyone have better information on his CCW position?

Tripper
04-07-2014, 9:17 AM
I asked the question on his Facebook site and was promptly removed from his page


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tym2getbizeee
04-10-2014, 11:06 PM
I was wondering, I'm pretty much just waiting for an academy date to become a correctional officer. Went through the background check and psychological written and face to face interview. Can I apply for a ccw and skip through all the stuff I've already done? Just wondering because I wouldn't mind being able carry to before I start the academy. Not sure who I should contact in regards to this.

Tripper
04-11-2014, 6:47 AM
Nope, it's all separate, you'll need to do it all again
Although amazingly, it's the same process

Edit: they 'may' simply refer to the other as the bg 'should be more in depth


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Tym2getbizeee
04-11-2014, 8:46 AM
Ok. Thanks Tripper.

Paladin
04-12-2014, 1:18 PM
I posted this in the 2nd A Litigation forum, but figured it should be posted here for your benefit too.

http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/sheriff/images/Sheriff_Scott_Miller2.jpg

From Monterey Co. Sheriff Scott Miller:
http://www.co.monterey.ca.us/sheriff/ccw-information.htm
(emphasis added)

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

So now, in this sheriff's opinion, our RKBA protected by the 2nd A to the BoR should depend upon whether our "neighbors, family and co-workers" (or, in the 3rd para., "neighbors, co-workers and friends"), think people should get CCWs?

Just a "heads up" to CGF re. possible legal targets for winning $$$.

goober
04-12-2014, 2:29 PM
I posted this in the 2nd A Litigation forum, but figured it should be posted here for your benefit too.

Yup, that's been his policy since he began accepting applications a few months after taking office.
I was in the first wave of applicants but didn't even make it to the intrusive neighbors/friends/coworkers interview part... Guess I wasn't "upstanding" enough based on my interview (even though my LiveScan was fine, I have 03 FFL & COE, I was a freakin CRPA Director at the time, etc.).
My denial letter just stated I "did not meet the qualifications" for them to issue me a permit. When I asked for specifics, the answer was the same.

blofeld42
04-12-2014, 5:37 PM
I think there's no chance Bernal would be any better.

At this point "good cause" for reasons of self defense is, after Peruta, a given. Bernal's concession that self defense suffices for good cause is a gimmie. _All_ sheriffs have to accept self defense as good cause. So his web site basically just repeated the law as it stands, and said he'd adopt the policies of past sheriffs, without saying whether he's talking about the sheriffs who think only cronies showed good character.

The only question is how onerous the next sheriff will make the "good character" portion. The evasiveness by Bernal isn't a good sign. Miller's policy, as irritating as it is, is at least known.

It looks like there are two other candidates: Mike Richards, whose web site says nothing about CCW, and Fred Garcia, whose web site is also silent on the issue. Does anyone know anything about them?

yellowstealth
04-13-2014, 7:59 PM
During the last election, Garcia initially said he would make Monterey County "shall issue". He later stated that he believed "shall issue" meant that anyone who demonstrated a reasonable need, and clarified to include "business people who carry a lot of cash" as an example of what would be included in that list.

Left my gut telling me he'd be no better about issuing than Kanalakis was, and I voted for Miller.

I'm suspicious that Miller's policy may have become a little less harsh than it started. I've heard quite a few of the stories from those who applied early on. I applied last Summer, and was approved at about the 90 day mark after my initial interview. The initial interview was painless as well, and the investigator seemed genuinely pleased to see my good cause was simply for protection of myself and my family.

They did send an investigator (Hans Koch) to my house, who did talk to my neighbors. From what I gathered, he never actually told them I had applied for a CCW permit, just that they were conducting a background investigation. Basic questions about my character, whether they had ever had any problems with me, etc. He was courteous and professional. I will add that I was honest with him during our interview and mentioned that while I had read the policy, I would appreciate him not mentioning the CCW to one of my neighbors in particular.

I'm told that early on there was voice stress analysis conducted during the interviews, that was not the case with mine. I did go to psych services for my psych eval, which was no big deal at all other than having to drive and pay for it.

Right around the 90 day mark I got a phone call saying my permit had been approved, and made an appointment to go pick up my permit. Honestly everyone I worked with at the Sheriff's Department was friendly, courteous, and professional. The only complaint I have about the entire process stems from my belief that the process shouldn't include interviewing neighbors or the psych eval.

Mixitup
04-16-2014, 6:54 AM
I received a response from Mike Richards regarding his stance on the issuance of CCW permits.

"Thank you for your question Mr. *****. I have received quite a bit of questions regarding the CCW policy. If elected Sheriff, my CCW policy would differ only slightly from that of Scott Miller's. I agree with his level of necessity required for applying for a CCW and I agree with the need for a thorough background check. The major difference I have, is I disagree with the psychological exam. They are too subjective. Only 3 of California's 58 counties currently require this. That speaks volumes about its viability in the process. That being said, I would apply even more due diligence to the background investigation to ensure that the recipient of a CCW is thoroughly vetted for the privilege of having a permit."

Tripper
04-16-2014, 8:55 AM
Did you email back that it's not a priv according to the 9th
( yes I know that's being debated but is currently the order, as it has not yet been overturned )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paladin
12-07-2014, 8:11 AM
Have any CGNers in Monterey county heard/inquired re. CCWs & the new sheriff? Any specifics re. changes in GC, visiting/interviewing neighbors, psych exam, etc?

Only 1 month until there's a new sheriff in town: Steve Bernal.

Tripper
12-07-2014, 8:14 AM
i'll inquire next chance I get

Laphroaig
12-26-2014, 9:22 PM
Much better then the 50 - 60 that had CCW's in the 90's, and most of the 2000's.

If you want one, apply. The apparently will also be dropping the Psyche Exam.

Good luck!

M

Tripper
12-26-2014, 9:46 PM
. The apparently will also be dropping the Psyche Exam.



Good luck!



M


Who says

Paladin
01-05-2015, 5:03 PM
i'll inquire next chance I get

Were you able to find out?

IIRC, the sheriff was sworn in today.

Tripper
01-05-2015, 5:05 PM
Haven't had the opportunity
Yes, he was sworn in today

Tripper
02-14-2015, 3:15 PM
still hoping to talk to someone soon, was waiting for them to decide who's in charge

thomasesmith3
05-07-2015, 8:50 AM
Any news about the new CCW policy? I'm starting paperwork soon...

Paladin
05-10-2015, 8:03 AM
Any news about the new CCW policy? I'm starting paperwork soon...

Sheriff Miller's old CCW policy per the SO's website is quoted at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13858276

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):
A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.

Looks like the critical parts are the same. (I did the bolding and/or underlining.) So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

ETA: Since its been 5 months since the Bernal has been sworn into office and the same policy statement is on the SO website, I'll update the OP. Since they say SD = GC (have gone "vSI"), I'm going to make it a "TIME TO APPLY!!!" with Alert symbol but with a caveat since they're pushing GMC to sainthood levels.... :mad:

Tripper
05-10-2015, 9:51 AM
Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again

Tripper
05-10-2015, 9:51 AM
SD is sufficient
Next appointments are out to July I think

Tripper
05-23-2015, 8:39 AM
Just seen this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/23/5c1cc8f94f0860358b28a6dbbe5c5698.jpg

Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

Paladin
05-23-2015, 12:41 PM
Just seen this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/23/5c1cc8f94f0860358b28a6dbbe5c5698.jpg

Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

I won't ask what made them decide to change their policy, I'm just glad they did. ;)

Tripper
05-23-2015, 2:28 PM
I think folks should bring the app when they ask for appointment, hand it in and say the 90 starts now, then they will be pressed to do it within the livescan limit, which they can't with all the stuff they do

gofer
06-30-2015, 10:26 AM
My first LTC expires this week after two years.

I got the notice for my renewal, that had been mailed to the wrong address. I filled in the paperwork, got an appointment, and took it in early this month. I took the (re-)training, and got the paperwork in. It looks like they are backlogged, and don't know how long it might be until my information gets reviewed. FYI: Nothing has changed since last time. Once it gets reviewed, then it has to "go up the chain" for approval or dis-approval.

I assume next time I need to start the renewaql 90 days before expiration, so that there's more time.

Not much more I can do for now.

Brian1833
07-08-2015, 7:57 AM
Wish i would have waited for Bernal. out 150 plus a trip to the VA(long as wait times)

Tripper
07-29-2015, 8:05 AM
Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again


Well, now renewals require a fresh application, same as new, just no new livescan and they don't go visit neighbors again or anything. And Yes Psych is absolutely gone

Also, my understanding is that if one is denied you appeal via the undersheriff and every person I know of that has appealed has received their CCW (denial was overturned)

Chewy65
07-29-2015, 3:59 PM
This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.

e90bmw
07-31-2015, 2:55 PM
California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.
I can't get a CCW in Alameda County, but having to ask your neighbors if you can exercise a basic right is just wrong.

What part of concealed have they forgotten.
You may as well wear it on your belt if everyone knows you have it..........

Brian1833
07-31-2015, 3:27 PM
A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now

Paladin
07-31-2015, 5:10 PM
This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.
Insulting a sheriff that is slowly going in the direction we want him to is not wise. :oji:

He accepts SD = GC.
He's gotten rid of the psych eval.
He doesn't ask your references/employer/neighbors when you renew. See the above and also: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements/26230-monterey-county-renewal-fast-easy-no-pain.html

These are all "good things" that Sheriff Bernal's done w/o being forced to by the courts.

Hopefully, in time, he'll get more comfortable w/issuing CCWs and skip your employer and neighbors and just ask for 3 non-family, in county references.

Patience, Weedhopper.

California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.Really? What is it? Link?

I know about the CA AG's opinion letter from back in the 1970s, but that was in re. GC, not GMC.

A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now
Probably better would be to tell the SO that they are gangmembers and ask the SO if when they talk to them to: (1) take all the names of whom they talk with and run them by their database, and (2) as them not to tell those neighbors why they're asking about your "friend": not tell them (and, ideally, not tell your other neighbors who may talk w/them) your "friend" is applying for a CCW.

Again: hopefully, after a couple of years experience (assuming we don't win SD = GC and "can own" = "can carry"/GMC via the federal courts), Sheriff Bernal will voluntarily drop some of these unwise policies.

Iguanadon
02-07-2016, 6:44 AM
Three weeks ago I called for an appointment and got one in August, a six month wait. A conflict developed and I called to see if I could change it. I was told that they were now into November, a nine month wait!

Tripper
02-07-2016, 7:49 AM
Monterey did remove the psych evaluation it was not really by choice, paladin if you have questions about that feel free to pm me
They are getting further out on appointments, I've been telling everyone to apply, and word is getting out, convincing not to do the neighbor thing is tough, trying to drop the 3 gun limit is tough, work in progress
There is only 3 investigators I think, DOJ is responding slower than before.
On the plus side, renewal is easy, my suggestion on that is copy your original, keep it handy to turn in again, changing only what is necessary to be accurate. It is the same app. But be aware, they are processing renewals as well as taking new apps, they are getting behind on that and there is a tendency to notify a person of their renewal too late, making your ccw actually expire before your renewal is approved, call them maybe 6 months out to see when you can make an appointment for renewal, have you qualification ready, quals are good for a year.
Oh, if you did some SSE that changed your caliber in DROS, get it back to the caliber it is suppose to be, or the gun will be denied, they are fine with off roster as long as the caliber is correct, ie qualified with the serial, model and caliber, then DROS shows as 9" barrel at .52 caliber.. the DROS caliber needs to match what is on the gun and what you qualified with
PM any questions you might have

anyracoon
03-15-2016, 4:43 PM
Talked with one of the investigators for Monterey County Sheriff today and was told it now takes a least 3 months for the DOJ to respond back once fingerprints are taken.

anyracoon
03-31-2016, 5:07 AM
Appears that Monterey County has added one more investigator for doing background checks on CCW applicants.

Iguanadon
04-21-2016, 11:24 AM
My appointment just got moved up three months sooner.