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obeygiant
10-14-2010, 10:18 PM
UPDATE: the Marin sheriff attempted to intervene to appeal the ruling of the 3-judge panel in Peruta:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=905433

Anyone who gets denied in Marin Co (either by a city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.

So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

putput
10-18-2010, 1:57 PM
Marin Specific PDF From Calguns Foundation

Here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/Marin.pdf)

States "contact with applicant's family, relatives, friends, associates and employer."

PutPut is now immortal.:party:

fairfaxjim
10-20-2010, 1:58 PM
Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms:

.pdf will not open.

Thanks.

obeygiant
10-20-2010, 7:39 PM
Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms:

.pdf will not open.

Thanks.

The link has been fixed, try and download it again. Post back in here and let me know if it works for you now.

fairfaxjim
11-13-2010, 1:56 PM
The link has been fixed, try and download it again. Post back in here and let me know if it works for you now.

I can downlaod and save it, it comes up with an encryption error when trying to open in a web browser window.

obeygiant
12-08-2010, 9:35 PM
Marin GC statements are available Here (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/109-marin)

Purple K
12-08-2010, 9:58 PM
"carries large amounts of cash in shady neighborhood" Hmmmm, I thought we were supposed to just hire an armored car service. LOL!

CalBear
12-08-2010, 9:59 PM
Marin GC statements are available Here (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/109-marin)
That's a whole lot of cash, gems, retired _____, gang death threats and prosecutors. :eek:

CalBear
12-08-2010, 9:59 PM
"carries large amounts of cash in shady neighborhood" Hmmmm, I thought we were supposed to just hire an armored car service. LOL!
Clearly the path to a CCW in Marin is to withdraw your entire life savings every evening, drive around shady parts of town, and deposit it the next morning.

Paladin
12-09-2010, 7:14 AM
Clearly the path to a CCW in Marin is to withdraw your entire life savings every evening, drive around shady parts of town, and deposit it the next morning.
My *guess* w/a lot of anti Bay Area counties is if a buddy/financial supporter of a sheriff makes the claim of having to carry large amounts of cash due to their job, the sheriff accepts it and issues a CCW.

If Joe Average makes that claim, the sheriff requires proof of the claim, investigates it, and if the claim is true, tells Joe to require direct deposits from customers or other work around (armor car service), and doesn't issue a CCW. :mad:

putput
12-09-2010, 7:44 AM
There it is. About the 10th page.

"I am requesting a license to carry a concealed weapon based primarily on personal safety and self-defense grounds and for the security and welfare of my family."

sfpcservice
12-09-2010, 7:56 AM
There it is. About the 10th page.

"I am requesting a license to carry a concealed weapon based primarily on personal safety and self-defense grounds and for the security and welfare of my family."

Snap! Has a calgunner applied using "self protection" to this county?

putput
12-09-2010, 8:03 AM
I think we're waiting for the green light. I'm guessing that this will take some litigation. I hope not but, we'll see...



Snap! Has a calgunner applied using "self protection" to this county?

wildhawker
12-09-2010, 8:53 AM
Keep your powder dry and remain patient...

Blackhawk556
12-09-2010, 10:55 PM
There it is. About the 10th page.

"I am requesting a license to carry a concealed weapon based primarily on personal safety and self-defense grounds and for the security and welfare of my family."

i think you are wrong.

he is a deputy district attorney so he gets special treatment, you don't.;)

Blackhawk556
12-09-2010, 11:00 PM
"Retired ________. He is entitled a ccw under Ca law"

which position could that be?
................................................


"he now works as a psychologist and appear to be well adjusted, stable and a productive member of society"

i'm not a psychologist but i am adjusted, stable, and pay my taxes every year. will i qualify?
can't someone say the same thing? ;)

Window_Seat
12-10-2010, 6:35 AM
"Retired ________. He is entitled a ccw under Ca law"

which position could that be?
...

Could be a former LEO who qualifies under 18 USC 926B.

I know this isn't ALCO, but here is one from ALCO, part 2, page 74:

...I am a retired federal law enforcement agent.

I do not have the compelling needs and safety concerns usually expressed by most applicants.

This is a direct and written admission that a retired LEO doesn't necessarily have to have that compelling need for a CCW just because they are a retired LEO. This doesn't mean that I don't support his need or want for a CCW, but it seems that with my compelling need being more than his, and my (presumed) denial, and with his approval in the same department (not necessarily the approval, itself) wouldn't stand the test of muster in court, but I could be wrong... :(

Erik.

putput
12-10-2010, 6:50 AM
Equal protection... He's no better than me or you...

i think you are wrong.

he is a deputy district attorney so he gets special treatment, you don't.;)

Window_Seat
12-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Equal protection... He's no better than me our you...

^^+10⁹⁹∞

And this is along the lines we are going to be seeing after certain court cases are either settled or won when it goes all the way through. This is also why we have these docs.

Erik.

415shooter
02-26-2011, 10:52 PM
listening and waiting

Kid Stanislaus
02-27-2011, 6:39 AM
"carries large amounts of cash in shady neighborhood" Hmmmm, I thought we were supposed to just hire an armored car service. LOL!

Sounds to me like the guy is a drug dealer!;)

Drivedabizness
02-27-2011, 7:18 PM
Is it me, or did someone from the Sheriff's office fill out the majority of the GC statements? The handwriting is the same and they are not written in the first person "Mr Jones wants a permit because".

If I were a resident, could I get one of the deputies to write MY GC statement?

Unicorn food
02-27-2011, 8:46 PM
As far as i know... no one in marin can get one

timdps
02-27-2011, 9:11 PM
Is it me, or did someone from the Sheriff's office fill out the majority of the GC statements? The handwriting is the same and they are not written in the first person "Mr Jones wants a permit because".

If I were a resident, could I get one of the deputies to write MY GC statement?

Looks to me like those are from the CCW interviews, not the submitted Good Cause statements.

Tim

PS 9mm vs Bears at Lake Tahoe... LOL

odysseus
03-09-2011, 10:50 PM
As far as i know... no one in marin can get one

It's an unpleasant reality with the likes of an anti like Sheriff Doyle.

corrupt
05-27-2011, 10:52 PM
Good cause statement: "I work in Oakland at my family business and have been assaulted and raped on different occasions."

Sheriff's reply to person he doesn't know: "Well then call the cops next time it happens, better yet don't go to Oakland."

bcDeL
06-18-2011, 11:16 AM
It is funny that a county that derives so much self-satisfaction from its progressive politics embraces a feudalistic gun control policy without a second thought.

safewaysecurity
02-17-2012, 4:57 PM
Marin County Good Cause statements are now available http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/66-marin-county-gc-statements.html

safewaysecurity
02-17-2012, 4:58 PM
I thought the one about the Chief in SF and the guy being a war vet killing the Vietcong was rather odd.

safewaysecurity
02-17-2012, 6:22 PM
Also page 49 and 51 are rather "general" self defense reasons. One basically says he is in a bad neighborhood and the other states that she is a woman and likes to hike.

putput
09-08-2014, 7:52 AM
Anyone tried lately?

xxx187xxx
10-02-2014, 7:32 PM
why does all these links say error not found?

Paladin
10-02-2014, 8:29 PM
why does all these links say error not found?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=14996587#post14996587

aodorisio
11-12-2014, 8:07 PM
alright well marin folk, looks like we might be able to get one after all. so who knows who to go to for training

kingof9x
11-13-2014, 2:26 PM
alright well marin folk, looks like we might be able to get one after all. so who knows who to go to for training

How did you come to that conclusion? Bullseye in san rafael has a multi-state ccw course, I wonder if that would count? However based on my interactions with the people there who claim to be instructors and the things I have heard them tell people I would be better off getting all my training on youtube from the guys at carnik con.

but seriously, did you come across some new info about getting a CCW in marin?

aodorisio
11-13-2014, 4:52 PM
oh man prepare to be really excited.

first some basic background as I don't know what you know or not, if you are more knowledgeable of CCW skip to the next paragraph. Previously the county sheriff was in charge of issuing CCWs and it required that along with training, good moral character, and a good clause/ a specific reason why you need a concealed weapon were the requirements to obtain a CCW permit. The marin county sheriff while claiming to be pro 2A was very anti pro 2A and only approved 22 permits thus far mainly to judges, district attorneys and anyone else he likes with some political power. He denied the others by claiming that their good clause statements weren't good enough to want to protect their lives. For instance a good clause statement saying personal protection wasn't a good enough reason.

Peruta vs San Diego was a court case claiming it is unconstitutional to deny someone if they want a CCW for personal protection essentially trying to get rid of the good clause part of the CCW process. As of now that case is won by peruta and California will be a shall issue state! Unless the case is reheard by the 9th circuit court which it has already denied one appeal for a rehearing, and achieving the rehearing off the second appeal is unlikely, but possible. It could also go to the US supreme court. Again I believe unlikely, however there is still the slim chance.

So right now I am trying to get ahead of the rush for classes so I can be towards the front of the line with my paperwork and not add another year or two until I can legally exercise my 2A rights in public.

there are several threads that talk about it on this website with more information, but from what I understand this is all correct. Read those threads if you like but you're going to have to weed through a bunch of comments

UberPatriot
11-13-2014, 5:04 PM
So, did something change lately because this has been known for a while now?
I thought we were still waiting on an appeal or something.

aodorisio
11-13-2014, 5:07 PM
they denied the appeal as of yesterday. we are now waiting to see what the next defensive steps for Harris are but it looks less likely as a win for her

UberPatriot
11-13-2014, 5:31 PM
Hey would a death threat by a rich guy saying he's going to get me in my alleyway some night for sleeping with his ex wife, that I showed to the cops a few years ago work in a good cause statement? :)

aodorisio
11-13-2014, 6:26 PM
in marin under current laws, i doubt it. the point of the lawsuit is that you don't need a good clause though

kingof9x
11-13-2014, 7:46 PM
I just wrote an email to the person in the sherif department that handles CCW applications and asked if they have changed their policy as of yet. I did a little research and some other counties have apparently changed their policy.

I am hesitant to actually apple now because in Marin's written policy it says that cause for denying an application is a previously denied ccw application. So I don't want to apply until I know the policy has changed considering that they might use that prevision to deny future applicants that they have already denied. UGH. can we just elect a new sheriff that actually supports 2a?

@aodorisio If you find a training option that isn't to far away I would gladly take the class with you. I have a couple friends that would also like to be ahead of the curve as well.

aodorisio
11-13-2014, 8:02 PM
Ok great please post what they reply. Additionally I would think if you were denied because of good clause, they would have to rehear or accept a new application. And I will keep you up to date on anything I find about training, I'm out of town right now so it might be slow but will still post any findings

kingof9x
11-14-2014, 8:46 AM
I have not asked bullseye if their ccw course meets the california requirements, but it might.
The other option I have found is in San Mateo - http://www.bayareafirearms.com/ccw/

Bullseye is $250 per person and the other place is $199 per person

putput
11-14-2014, 9:06 AM
Please, please, please let us know the response...

Otherwise I'm emailing next week if/when the case is sent back to San Diego/Finalized.

Thanks in advance.

I just wrote an email to the person in the sherif department that handles CCW applications and asked if they have changed their policy as of yet. I did a little research and some other counties have apparently changed their policy.

I am hesitant to actually apple now because in Marin's written policy it says that cause for denying an application is a previously denied ccw application. So I don't want to apply until I know the policy has changed considering that they might use that prevision to deny future applicants that they have already denied. UGH. can we just elect a new sheriff that actually supports 2a?

@aodorisio If you find a training option that isn't to far away I would gladly take the class with you. I have a couple friends that would also like to be ahead of the curve as well.

aodorisio
11-14-2014, 9:07 AM
I'm not entirely sure but I think the course you take needs to be approved by the sheriff So I'm not entirely sure the one in San mateo will work maybe the bullseye one. If everything passes I assume we will be seeing many new training courses pop up.

kingof9x
11-17-2014, 9:45 AM
No reply from sheriff yet.

On the topic of new training courses popping up; I was at the range yesterday and there was a class going on. Maybe 12 people. The instructor went over 3 gun safety rules then introduced his assistant instructors. He said that he had given them their first class earlier that day. A couple times the range master had to get on the mic and tell them to stop shooting the ceiling. Just another "be careful where you train" story.

kingof9x
11-26-2014, 10:11 PM
While I have not received an official reply I did talk to a guy who works for the sherif today. He told me that the case has been brought up in a briefing. All they said was that it was most likely to be changing soon, similar to changes due to prop 47. They know it's changing but they don't know how or when.

This is all hearsay. While we are on the topic the guy did say that I should apply, and the more people that do will put more political pressure on our sherif to do something about it.

What do you all think? should we organize and apply all at once or wait a little longer to see if it just changes?

aodorisio
11-27-2014, 1:55 PM
Assuming that everything goes in favor of Peruta the judge will set a date by when the new law goes into effect. When that date comes the sheriffs must comply with the law. I won't be applying before that date unless I know for a fact that Sheriff Doyle is signing off on the applications. Two things could happen if you apply before that date. 1 you apply and the sheriff says well its going to happen anyways so I will sign off on it. or 2 he is upset with the ruling and, the date still being before the law goes into effect, he denies you. You will then have to state that you were denied a CCW before on your next application, and I don't know if he could reject you again based on the fact that you were denied previously for any reason. It is just a risk I would not want to take. I have waited this long to get one I don't want to risk it by applying say 3 months ahead of time.

simply put peruta passes an official date will be set. no reason to apply before that date unless you know for a 100% fact your sheriff will comply with the law.

just my 2 cents

kingof9x
12-01-2014, 2:13 PM
I agree with you. California gun owners have plenty of practice waiting for our firearms.

If we are lucky that waiting period should be history by the time we can get a CCW in Marin county.

Citizen_B
12-08-2014, 12:29 PM
Has anyone contacted the Sheriff's office and know what the current approved training requirements/trainers are?

kingof9x
12-09-2014, 8:28 AM
The web site says they want all applications sent to Stacy Bakke at sbakke@marinsheriff.org. I sent her a question almost a month ago and have yet to receive a reply.

If you get any official info from the sherif office please share it.

DannyInSoCal
11-06-2015, 12:02 AM
Has there been any updates in the last few years for Marin County?

Paladin
11-07-2015, 10:34 AM
Has there been any updates in the last few years for Marin County?
No.

Marin is enslaved to wealthy SF liberals. It will take a federal court decision to crack it open (Peruta, Caetano, Wrenn, Nichols (OC case)). Baring that you'll have to wait until hell freezes over.... :(

NorthBay Shooter
11-13-2015, 10:17 AM
Does anyone know when the en banc review will be finalized and/or published?

estrom
11-13-2015, 11:23 AM
they denied the appeal as of yesterday. we are now waiting to see what the next defensive steps for Harris are but it looks less likely as a win for her

Where did you see this? Nothing is mentioned about this in the Peruta thread.

LeftCoastShooter
11-16-2015, 8:47 PM
No.

Marin is enslaved to wealthy SF liberals. It will take a federal court decision to crack it open (Peruta, Caetano, Wrenn, Nichols (OC case)). Baring that you'll have to wait until hell freezes over.... :(This. All of my sources close to Sheriff Doyle agree that this is a non-starter issue, that he won't issue. Period.

Paladin
11-17-2015, 7:27 AM
Does anyone know when the en banc review will be finalized and/or published?Deadlines are for parties to litigation, not for courts....

NorthBay Shooter
11-18-2015, 5:31 PM
Paladin,
thanks for the update. I thought I saw something from NRA-ILA that we would hear before the end of the year. I guess I was mistaken.

mootman
12-23-2015, 5:32 AM
Are any fellow Calguners mountain or road bike riders? Let's link up for a ride in the new Year!

Best,
Gary

Paladin
12-23-2015, 10:19 PM
Are any fellow Calguners mountain or road bike riders? Let's link up for a ride in the new Year!

Best,
Gary
These threads are for county level info re. applying for CCWs only.

Maybe post this sort of thing in the Off Topic forum?

cabforward2
01-14-2016, 8:23 AM
Any update's?

mootman
03-24-2016, 2:15 PM
Yes, any updates?

Triage
04-12-2016, 8:03 AM
Any updates? Wanting to submit my app, but don't want to submit at the wrong time. Thanks

Mykul
04-13-2016, 6:32 AM
Any updates? Wanting to submit my app, but don't want to submit at the wrong time. Thanks

As far as I have read about Doyle (Marin county sheriff) you need to be actively hunted by someone and be able to prove it before he will issue any CCW. I would also like to submit mine to obtain the California CCW. I also read if you submit and are Denied your permit. then your name is tarnished from trying to resubmit later. If someone else can confirm that would be great!

Paladin
06-08-2018, 1:21 PM
As far as I have read about Doyle (Marin county sheriff) you need to be actively hunted by someone and be able to prove it before he will issue any CCW. I would also like to submit mine to obtain the California CCW. I also read if you submit and are Denied your permit. then your name is tarnished from trying to resubmit later. If someone else can confirm that would be great!B.S.

If you were denied for lack of GMC, they'll just look into why and see if you're still determined to lack GMC.

If you were denied for lack of GC, they'll just look at your current GC to determine if you still lack GC.

Paladin
06-08-2018, 1:23 PM
Marin won't change until Doyle is gone. He's entrenched.
Sorry about the big picture:
https://www.marinsheriff.org/assets/images/2018RDoyle.jpg
Doyle is ~71 yo.: born in 1947.
https://www.marinsheriff.org/about-us/executive-staff

Will Doyle really run for sheriff again in 2022 when he's 75??? Best for Marin Co gunnies to start to start organizing now to have an impact on who gets elected as their next sheriff in 2022 June. :oji:

Sheriffs' elections are in non-presidential election years, so turn out is low. Sheriffs' elections are usually decided in the June primary, which has an even lower turnout, even further increasing the impact of a small but determined political minority (i.e., gunnies in Marin Co.).

I'm posting this here since this is where it came up, but I'll cross post this post to the Marin Co Concealed Carry Info thread for further discussion. (IOW, reply there not here re. Doyle & Marin Co)

Bringing this discussion over here to the Marin Co thread where it belongs.

Robotron2k84
06-08-2018, 10:20 PM
Doyle isn't there much of the time anyway. Undersheriff Ridgway will probably replace him once Doyle retires. Expect more of the same for the next 20 years. Breakdown of issued permits numbers around 40-50 and consists mostly of Federal law enforcement, active Judges and DA personnel. Doyle won't even issue to his deputies who aren't allowed to carry off duty.

Keep in mind that Doyle has run unopposed for the last few elections, and that voter registration in Marin breaks down as 78% D, 16% R and 6% NPP. This makes running a pro-CCW candidate almost a guaranteed loser. Marin has exactly one gun store proper, and a few Big-5's which don't have full-time staff for selling guns (only certain days), and one semi-public range.

It's not a hotbed of Pro-2A fervor. Even though guns per capita far outstrips SF given the similar voting demographics. Marin is still older and white, but that is changing.

To make a fine point, I was the first 03 FFL that my local PD ever received notification for.

Robotron2k84
06-08-2018, 11:01 PM
B.S.

If you were denied for lack of GMC, they'll just look into why and see if you're still determined to lack GMC.

If you were denied for lack of GC, they'll just look at your current GC to determine if you still lack GC.

It's not entirely B.S.

The process in Marin is to meet with the undersheriff for a review of GC and GMC, and if he feels that you meet the standards, will tell you so. You are, of course, free to submit the application to the Sheriff for his determination, but the denial will be factored into a subsequent application. I was told so in person. A denial may also affect your out-of-state permits if they ask if you have ever been denied.

If you don't decide to pursue the application based on the recommendation given at the initial meeting, it isn't recorded or submitted.

Paladin
06-09-2018, 9:14 AM
Doyle isn't there much of the time anyway. Undersheriff Ridgway will probably replace him once Doyle retires. Expect more of the same for the next 20 years. Breakdown of issued permits numbers around 40-50 and consists mostly of Federal law enforcement, active Judges and DA personnel. Doyle won't even issue to his deputies who aren't allowed to carry off duty.

Keep in mind that Doyle has run unopposed for the last few elections, and that voter registration in Marin breaks down as 78% D, 16% R and 6% NPP. This makes running a pro-CCW candidate almost a guaranteed loser. Marin has exactly one gun store proper, and a few Big-5's which don't have full-time staff for selling guns (only certain days), and one semi-public range.

It's not a hotbed of Pro-2A fervor. Even though guns per capita far outstrips SF given the similar voting demographics. Marin is still older and white, but that is changing.

To make a fine point, I was the first 03 FFL that my local PD ever received notification for.Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... :( Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... :facepalm:)

Paladin
06-09-2018, 9:23 AM
It's not entirely B.S.

The process in Marin is to meet with the undersheriff for a review of GC and GMC, and if he feels that you meet the standards, will tell you so. You are, of course, free to submit the application to the Sheriff for his determination, but the denial will be factored into a subsequent application. I was told so in person. A denial may also affect your out-of-state permits if they ask if you have ever been denied.

If you don't decide to pursue the application based on the recommendation given at the initial meeting, it isn't recorded or submitted.The meme that a prior denial is inherently negative is BS and is used to intimated/scare people into not getting a final determination of their application so that the CLEO can claim he approves a high percent of applications, and that the low number of CCWs issued by his IA is because people just don't apply, not because he won't issue. :oji:

For CA CCWs (what we're concerned about in this forum), a prior denial is NOT dispositive. Salute v. Pitchess requires the IA to exercise discretion with each application. The IA cannot just rubber stamp denials on apps where the applicant has a prior denial. Sure, like I said, they'll look into the prior denial, esp if it was for lack of GMC. But a denial for lack of GC doesn't matter: they want to know what your GC is now, what proof you have to support it, and will test it against what their GC requirement is now (vs what your GC was vis-a-vis the GC requirement of your prior IA back when you were denied).

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1830587.html

Robotron2k84
06-09-2018, 3:01 PM
Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... :( Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... :facepalm:)

I would caution against assuming that everyone in the sheriff's department is Anti, in Marin. As I wrote in a different thread, I do get the impression they want CCW reciprocity to pass so they can get out from under the demographics and let people choose their freedoms. However, given the voter make-up, that Marin still wouldn't issue even with Natl. reciprocity, simply due to the politics involved.

Paladin
06-09-2018, 7:25 PM
I would caution against assuming that everyone in the sheriff's department is Anti, in Marin.:confused:

I didn't. I only spoke of the sheriff and the vast majority of Marin County voters.

Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... :( Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... :facepalm:)

As I wrote in a different thread, I do get the impression they want CCW reciprocity to pass so they can get out from under the demographics and let people choose their freedoms. However, given the voter make-up, that Marin still wouldn't issue even with Natl. reciprocity, simply due to the politics involved.Well, I'm glad to hear that not all MCSO LEOs are anti. But they're stuck behind enemy lines, just like the rest of us in the SFBA. Here's to those LE comrades! :cheers2:

Marin's best hope is something like what we hope just happened with Sonoma: there's a sheriffs election w/o an incumbent who's running, and the candidate who wins also happens to want to issue more CCWs, even if they aren't willing to go SD = GC. That way the antis don't go hysterical and yet more CCWs get issue w/o incident. :cheers2:

Robotron2k84
06-09-2018, 7:49 PM
:confused:

I didn't. I only spoke of the sheriff and the vast majority of Marin County voters.


Subtlety on my part. It's my hope sanity seeps in after Doyle is gone, and the next in line may be more willing to issue. No guarantees.

Well, I'm glad to hear that not all MCSO LEOs are anti. But they're stuck behind enemy lines, just like the rest of us in the SFBA. Here's to those LE comrades! :cheers2:

Marin's best hope is something like what we hope just happened with Sonoma: there's a sheriffs election w/o an incumbent who's running, and the candidate who wins also happens to want to issue more CCWs, even if they aren't willing to go SD = GC. That way the antis don't go hysterical and yet more CCWs get issue w/o incident. :cheers2:

I simply wish that at a minimum that the remaining red counties would follow the standards that LA (PD?) is using to expand the valid classes of individuals where SD=GC.

Better would be full recognition of the right, but that's asking the near impossible for such districts.

Paladin
06-09-2018, 8:39 PM
Subtlety on my part. It's my hope sanity seeps in after Doyle is gone, and the next in line may be more willing to issue. No guarantees. :cool:

Don't be surprised if Doyle retires before his 2019 - 23 term is up and recommends the BoS appoint his preferred successor as "interim" sheriff who will then run as the incumbent... This would probably happen late fall of 2021 (election June 2022, starts his first full term Jan 2023).

I simply wish that at a minimum that the remaining red counties would follow the standards that LA (PD?) is using to expand the valid classes of individuals where SD=GC. I'll be subtle too.... :cool:

If anyone is looking for ideas for a GC policy, see what I suggested for San Diego Sheriff Gore's GC guidelines. Just make a few minor changes, as shown, and it becomes very good "light green" to even "dark green" GC standard (depending upon how it is actually interpreted and implemented):

Gore's CCW Good Cause policy, when you look at it (http://sdsheriff.net/documents/ccw.pdf), wouldn't be bad IF he just removed the "business or occupation" qualifications/limitations and added the text I've bolded. It would put San Diego solidly in "light green" on the CA CCW GC map. From what SDCGO has told me this week -- that their people are still getting approved and NONE of them have been denied because of GC -- I think Gore's current practice is more in line with their GC policy as modified by me below than as currently posted on their website. If Gore made the changes suggested below to his official policy on his website (and put a direct link to CCW Info on his homepage), more CGNers would trust him NOT to flip back to restrictive issuance if he was reelected. :oji:

Good cause is determined on an individual basis. Applicants for a CCW should be able to set forth a set of circumstances that distinguishes the applicant from other members of the general public and causes him or her to be placed in harm's way. Simply writing "self defense" or "personal protection" on an application does not provide the requisite proof of good cause. However, the following criteria, upon proof, may establish good cause:

• Evidence that there has been or is likely to be an attempt on the part of a second party to do great bodily harm to the applicant.

• The nature of the business or occupation Any lawful activity of the applicant is such that it is subject to personal risk and/or criminal attack, greater than the general population.

• A task of the business or occupation Any lawful activity of the applicant requires transportation of large sums of money or other valuables and alternative protective measures or security cannot be practically employed.

• When a business or occupation Any lawful activity of the applicant is of a high-risk nature and or requires the applicant's presence in a dangerous environment.

• The occupation or business Any lawful activity of the applicant is such that no practical means of protection, security or risk avoidance can mitigate the risk other than the carrying of a concealed firearm.

• Personal protection is warranted to mitigate a threat to the applicant that the applicant is able to substantiate.

• Good cause could include, but is not limited to, verifiable documented instances of threats to the personal safety of the applicant, his or her family, or employees. Threats to personal safety maybe verbal or demonstrated through actual harm committed in the place of work, neighborhood or regular routes of travel for business. The applicant should articulate the threat as it applies personally to the applicant, his or her family, or employees. Non-specific, general concerns about personal safety are insufficient.