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obeygiant
10-14-2010, 10:16 PM
UPDATE (2015 Feb 16):
I ("Paladin") went to the KCSO's webpage (http://www.countyofkings.com/departments/public-safety/sheriff/concealed-weapon-permit) and downloaded their Word document titled, "Application Packet for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW)". It says:

Citizens who show good cause for carrying a concealed weapon may be eligible. The Sheriff, giving consideration to the reasons stated in the application, will determine good cause. Good cause may be determined by a clear and present danger to the life of, or threat of great bodily injury to, the applicant, spouse, children, or other member of the applicant's immediate family, which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures, and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant's carrying of a concealed firearm. (emphasis added)

So, it sounds like Sheriff Robinson does not believe in supporting our 2nd A RKBA and is highly restrictive in his issuance of CCWs. IOW, average residents are highly unlikely to get approved for a CCW until Peruta is finalized.

Operator
10-22-2010, 2:43 PM
Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...

wildhawker
10-22-2010, 2:58 PM
Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...

Totally illegal. Anyone who's told they have to go through the City first should email us at ccw@calgunsfoundation.org.

pgg
10-22-2010, 7:14 PM
Side note about Kings County, I'm a resident of the City of Hanford, I was told I had to go through the City for get my CCW because I live in town? Is this another misconception that "they" can tell us to go to the City police instead the Sheriff?

For my situation it worked out in my favor, but I wonder about others...

I'm also a resident in Hanford, and was told that I must apply through the city.

It took them 6 or 7 months to process and approve me, but they did. I honestly thought they'd denied me and thrown my application in the round file, and was surprised when they finally contacted me. Something about no review committee meeting over the holidays.

They also specifically told me that "self defense" was NOT sufficient cause and that my wife would be wasting her time to apply.

pgg
10-30-2010, 4:03 PM
They also specifically told me that "self defense" was NOT sufficient cause and that my wife would be wasting her time to apply.

With the movement and activity and overall change we've seen in CCW issuing policies in some parts of CA, what advice does CGF have for my wife at this time?

Should she apply NOW to the Hanford city police department with "self defense" as her cause, or wait?

wildhawker
10-30-2010, 5:44 PM
I would suggest holding off until we post the Kings County accepted good cause statements (within the next week or so).

Also, note that Kings is getting a new Sheriff (David Robinson). Since I'm not familiar with the HPD's policy and acceptable good cause, I can't speak to that agency at this point. I will be curious to see how Mr. Robinson will approach the issue of carry licensing.

With the movement and activity and overall change we've seen in CCW issuing policies in some parts of CA, what advice does CGF have for my wife at this time?

Should she apply NOW to the Hanford city police department with "self defense" as her cause, or wait?

Operator
11-01-2010, 1:45 PM
WildHawker, If you want to know more about HPD pm me I have a few contacts.

Can'thavenuthingood
11-08-2010, 1:16 PM
I'm in on this also.

Need more sponsors guys:)

Vick

PORCH
11-17-2010, 10:41 PM
I met with the Sheriff's Department about a year ago and had a very positive experience. I first met with Commander Amaroso who has since retired from the department and is now the Chief of Police for the newly founded Avenal Police Department. During my meeting with him he basically told me apply and we will give you one. Then he found out that I lived in city limits and said that I needed to apply with the Hanford Police Department first. He did say that the Sheriff's Office had the final say but that they did not like stepping on the HPD's toes so they wanted me to go through them first and if they denied me then for me to come back to the Sheriff's Department and they would get me one. So as soon as I left the Sheriff's Office I went straight to the HPD and picked up an application. I happened to see the Sheriff Chris Jordan leaving the HPD as I showed up so I stopped him and relayed to him all the information I was just told and he basically said yeah apply with them and if they deny you then come and see me and I will get you one. Well as I was getting my character reference letters lined up I got laid off from my job and I never put my application in. I am hoping to get started on the process again real soon.

As far as the new Sheriff David Robinson goes I'm not sold on his commitment to the 2nd Amendment yet. I e-mailed him during his campaign and he gave me a politicians' answer as far as I'm concerned. He pimped his NRA membership but didn't commit to shall issue. I'll post up our correspondence when I find it.

PORCH
11-17-2010, 10:50 PM
This is my email to him:

Hi Mr. Robinson,

I am a resident of Hanford and very much interested in your bid for election. I have heard nothing but good things about you. However I am wondering what your stance is on CCW Permits?

Thanks,

xxx

Here is his reply:

Mr. xxx,

I do agree with issuing CCW's to the citizens. I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendement and a member of the NRA. With that said there is a process involved in getitng a CCW and I would adhere to the process. Just because someone applies does not mean they will get a CCW. There is great responsibility that comes with a CCW permit and I would make sure that those that are issued, are issued to responsible citiznes who have met the legal requirments for a CCW. I will be fair about issuing them, because I do understand that many people in the public do carry large amounts of cash, work in risky environments, deal with the criminal element at differnet times, etc. These and other "good cause" reasons will help me determine who will be approved for a CCW. I hope this helps. Thanks for the question. Dave



My initial reaction to his response was that if he so believes in the 2nd Amendment and is a member of the NRA why doesn't he just come out and say that he will be shall issue like many of the neighboring valley counties such as Madera, Fresno and Tulare. Then I thought well maybe he does really believe that and was just trying to play both sides of the fence incase I was an anti and this was a trap question. After reading it today, I think he was trying to give me hints possibly of things to list as a good cause based on how he worded that part of his response. I wish I would have pressed him on shall issue but I never responded because this was right around easter and i got distracted and forgot to reply back to him. Only time will tell I guess.

wildhawker
11-17-2010, 10:57 PM
It's such a shame that so many Sheriffs hide their disdain for our rights behind an NRA card and excuses like the above.

PORCH
11-17-2010, 11:14 PM
It's such a shame that so many Sheriffs hide their disdain for our rights behind an NRA card and excuses like the above.


I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.

wildhawker
11-17-2010, 11:30 PM
I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.

Not that it particularly matters, but as a former Hanford resident I'm very disappointed in the Kings County Sheriff's Dept. and County Counsel's office.

PORCH
11-17-2010, 11:40 PM
Not that it particularly matters, but as a former Hanford resident I'm very disappointed in the Kings County Sheriff's Dept. and County Counsel's office.


Have there been some unconstitutional things going on? I haven't heard anything bad besides the normal gripes that go along with any government agency.

wildhawker
11-17-2010, 11:42 PM
Have there been some unconstitutional things going on? I haven't heard anything bad besides the normal gripes that go along with any government agency.

Yep, a number of violations in KC.

PORCH
11-17-2010, 11:47 PM
Yep, a number of violations in KC.

That sucks. Care to elaborate? Back to the subject of this thread though; what's the ETA on accepted good cause statements being published on the information page?

wildhawker
11-17-2010, 11:59 PM
Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon

PORCH
11-18-2010, 12:20 AM
Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon

Thanks; I look forward to reviewing them. If you're ever back visiting in Hanford PM me and I'll buy you a beer.

greasemonkey
11-18-2010, 6:03 AM
I agree completely. I ended up voting against him because of his reply and the previous positive conversation I had with Sheriff Jordan.

Unfortunately, Jordan speaks well about his stance on issuing but when it comes time for him to 'rubber stamp', there's a bit of doublespeak. Quite a few people have still been issued to; but there are also quite a few upstanding members of the community, even some renewals, that have been denied.

Robinson's answer wreaks but as much as I don't like his CCW policy that's politically vague and eerily similar to the rest of the pretentious non-issuers, he should at least be competent to do the rest of the tasks of Sheriff and can likely be coerced to comply with State Law re: CCW policy. The same competence would be difficult to attribute to the current chair-holder.

Operator
11-18-2010, 9:14 AM
I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.

But after reading the PC12054 the max they can charge is $10 I'm sending that over to my friend at the PD.

There was also a sign on the window stating that their fee for a CCW is $160 and that a renewal is $35 (I could be remembering that one wrong). Now, I understand what the local fee should be, but, am I understanding correctly that there is a local fee not to exceed $100 and a state fee? (that is unknown to me) Plus the fingerprinting fee?

Same with renewal less the fingerprinting?

I'm sure all this will be clear when Wildhawker posts his info in the next day or so.
Many thanks Brandon.

wildhawker
11-18-2010, 10:45 AM
The licensing authority can charge no more than $100 per 2-year license for "local fees", period. They also collect money for the state ($95 for initial application, $52 for renewal), and can (at least for now) charge you the standard fingerprint fee for the *initial application only*. Once your prints have been taken and your PC12052 report application (standard CCW app) is sent in, they can never require you to be fingerprinted again (within the same jurisdiction).

Keep in mind the local fee for renewals is "$25 as adjusted" by the consumer price index:

(a) Each applicant for a new license or for the renewal of a
license shall pay at the time of filing his or her application a fee
determined by the Department of Justice not to exceed the
application processing costs of the Department of Justice for the
direct costs of furnishing the report required by Section 12052.
After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the
department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a
rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living
adjustments for the department's budget. The officer receiving the
application and the fee shall transmit the fee, with the fingerprints
if required, to the Department of Justice. The licensing authority
of any city, city and county, or county may charge an additional fee
in an amount equal to the actual costs for processing the application
for a new license, excluding fingerprint and training costs, but in
no case to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), and shall transmit the
additional fee, if any, to the city, city and county, or county
treasury. The first 20 percent of this additional local fee may be
collected upon filing of the initial application. The balance of the
fee shall be collected only upon issuance of the license.
The licensing authority may charge an additional fee, not to
exceed twenty-five dollars ($25), for processing the application for
a license renewal, and shall transmit an additional fee, if any, to
the city, city and county, or county treasury. These local fees may
be increased at a rate not to exceed any increase in the California
Consumer Price Index as compiled and reported by the California
Department of Industrial Relations.
(b) In the case of an amended license pursuant to subdivision (f)
of Section 12050, the licensing authority of any city, city and
county, or county may charge a fee, not to exceed ten dollars ($10),
except that the fee may be increased at a rate not to exceed any
increase in the California Consumer Price Index as compiled and
reported by the California Department of Industrial Relations, for
processing the amended license and shall transmit the fee to the
city, city and county, or county treasury.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/CGF_Civilian_CCW_Guide.pdf


I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.

But after reading the PC12054 the max they can charge is $10 I'm sending that over to my friend at the PD.

There was also a sign on the window stating that their fee for a CCW is $160 and that a renewal is $35 (I could be remembering that one wrong). Now, I understand what the local fee should be, but, am I understanding correctly that there is a local fee not to exceed $100 and a state fee? (that is unknown to me) Plus the fingerprinting fee?

Same with renewal less the fingerprinting?

I'm sure all this will be clear when Wildhawker posts his info in the next day or so.
Many thanks Brandon.

PORCH
11-18-2010, 11:21 AM
Unfortunately, Jordan speaks well about his stance on issuing but when it comes time for him to 'rubber stamp', there's a bit of doublespeak. Quite a few people have still been issued to; but there are also quite a few upstanding members of the community, even some renewals, that have been denied.

Robinson's answer wreaks but as much as I don't like his CCW policy that's politically vague and eerily similar to the rest of the pretentious non-issuers, he should at least be competent to do the rest of the tasks of Sheriff and can likely be coerced to comply with State Law re: CCW policy. The same competence would be difficult to attribute to the current chair-holder.


I hear you Greasemonkey. I know there were a lot of complaints about Jordan but I voted single issue on this based on my personal experiences. I hope that Robinson proves my initial feelings wrong. He comes from a great family and hopefully can be swayed with logical reasoning.

greasemonkey
11-18-2010, 11:36 AM
I hear you Greasemonkey. I know there were a lot of complaints about Jordan but I voted single issue on this based on my personal experiences. I hope that Robinson proves my initial feelings wrong. He comes from a great family and hopefully can be swayed with logical reasoning.

Completely understandable. I wonder how much of Jordan's backwards progress on CCW policy wasn't just due to City Counsel's influence, if his own legal counsel is telling him how things oughta be and he's uncertain, I can't blame him for heeding his counsel's advice. At least neither candidate was outright anti-gun, which should make it a bit easier to work with both. We've still got some time to work alongside Jordan and help set the tone with the rest of the office for when the new guy comes in.

pgg
11-18-2010, 1:22 PM
I just came from the HPD I was trying to Amend my permit with a new gun, and remove an old one. Lady told me that the Fee to do this was $35. I told her never mind and called a friend at HPD and asked him to check on that, the receptionist didn't sound like she knew what she was talking about.

Interesting. I have a new gun to add to my permit, just hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Please post back here with info when you get this resolved.



My wife's waiting for the good cause statements to put in her application.

Operator
11-18-2010, 2:46 PM
So I sent an email to my friend, My friend is relativly high up in HPD, and for the record he is a great cop, and a great person that believes very much in CCW and helped me and supports other getting theirs. He is well thought of by almost anyone how knows him, and I won't be a part of anything that would make him look bad.

However, I am having a principle problem with the Fee's they charge and his response to me about them.

My email pointed out in a very respectful, non confrontational way, (and no, I won't be posting it here,) that I think they are not following the PC. I told him, I could be understanding it wrong, and that it's a small issue but, I didn't feel like giving the city permission to enforce the PC's they like and not follow the ones they don't.

The main point of his response was this;

"we are also allowed to charge for actual cost to process any request."

I don't see that idea anywhere in the PC so I'm sure it's what he's trained to say or he might be messing with me, because he can't single handedly change the fee structure...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying $35 bucks if the PC said I was supposed to, the fact is it doesn't, and nowhere that i know of does it say "charge what you want, you have the gun and the badge."



Wildhawker,
when you get KC's noncompliance issues together, you should see if the Hanford Sentential will print something on it. There have been a few things in the news over the last few months between the HPD and the city and how grants are being used. If they see this as being controversial, they might print a story on it.

wildhawker
11-18-2010, 2:57 PM
Operator, the $35 renewal is $25 "as adjusted". Not the hill to die on.

Operator
11-18-2010, 3:07 PM
Operator, the $35 renewal is $25 "as adjusted". Not the hill to die on.

Sorry Brandon, I'm confused, the $35 I'm referring to is the $35 they want to charge me to Amend my permit. Which should be $10 right?

Even still, the point "not the hill to die on" is well taken, I will end up paying this because I want my new gun on my permit, and because I want to keep my friend at the PD.

My main concern is they are charging fees in direct conflict with the PC that they are supposed to enforce.

Operator
11-19-2010, 8:40 PM
Good news. I spoke (in person) to my friend at the PD. He is a funny guy that likes to give me a hard time, so I asked him point blank if he even read all of my email. And I wasn't surprised when he said "no"

So I pulled it up on my phone and had him read the PC that I included, after he read it, he pulled out his phone and called the "records office" and informed the person that takes the money, they can't charge $35 for an amendment, they by law can only charge $10. And then went a little further and told them that they can only charge $25 for a renewal, Effective today.

When he hung up, he looked at me and said, "Ok, Done."

So turns out I was wrong in my earlier post, He does have the ability to change the fee's by himself.

wildhawker
11-20-2010, 7:59 AM
Very cool Operator - that's grassroots results! Bravo!

pgg
11-20-2010, 1:45 PM
Should be tomorrow night, Friday latest. Scanning is done, now need to finish redactions and then they'll go up.

-Brandon

Thanks for your efforts. Any updates? My wife is hoping to apply this week but she doesn't have the "good cause" I used so we're eager to see what has worked for others.

It's been a few months since they told us point blank "don't bother applying" ... change is in the air, thanks largely to CGF. :-)

dantodd
11-20-2010, 7:23 PM
Should be up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

dantodd
11-21-2010, 1:42 AM
Thanks for your patience everyone. There are some open questions about the response documents we got from the Sheriff but while Brandon works on getting that straightened out I have uploaded a handful of the accepted Good Cause statements.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/104-kings

dantodd
11-21-2010, 1:42 AM
Thanks for your patience everyone. There are some open questions about the response documents we got from the Sheriff but while Brandon works on getting that straightened out I have uploaded a handful of the accepted Good Cause statements.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/104-kings

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/gcstatements/KingsGC%28subset%29.pdf

greasemonkey
11-21-2010, 8:22 AM
Should be up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

Dang, Todd, why the delay...have you guys been busy or something? :D

On page 5, 'self protection' is used as GC, followed by a brief explanation. Does 'self protection' stand alone for GC or does it still require justification?

Can'thavenuthingood
11-21-2010, 11:18 AM
While reading those good cause statements it's sure disappointing that good citizens have to ask permission to carry a gun. All are reasonable as well as solid reasons to carry yet something akin to groveling is required.

Shameful what this country has become.

Vick

dantodd
11-21-2010, 12:06 PM
@monkey the good cause is taken in whole you can't assume one portion alone would be adequate.

@vick. I had the same feeling. In many cases it seems like that are begging for the privilege to protect themselves.

Can'thavenuthingood
11-22-2010, 5:33 PM
Just spoke with a lady at the bank regarding CCW.
She said it took her husband 3 years to get his CCW, no reasons other than it just took bureaucratic time.

We have a couple of new folks fixing to sign onto Calguns:)

Vick

PORCH
11-22-2010, 9:49 PM
Thanks guys for all your hard work. Do you have any advice going forward?

wildhawker
11-22-2010, 9:56 PM
Go ahead and apply using an approved good cause similarly situated to your own based on the policy here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/Kings.pdf

Kings is on the radar but not the next step.

PORCH
11-22-2010, 10:57 PM
Brandon, I know you stated earlier that the Sheriff's Office is supposed to allow you to apply without having to go through the PD even if you live in city limits. How should we handle that since currently the KCSO is making you go through the PD first. Also with a change in Sheriff coming up, should we wait until the new administration takes office to avoid possible delays because of personnel changes and paperwork getting lost. Lastly I notice that the application packet states that you have to pay all the money up front which is what the CGF just got Solano County to change. How should us in Kings County handle that?

wildhawker
11-22-2010, 10:59 PM
At this point, hang tight and we'll get in touch with you as soon as we're ready to move in KC.

PORCH
11-22-2010, 11:09 PM
10-4

greasemonkey
11-23-2010, 7:10 AM
Haha, I wonder what Jordan's office would do if you certified mail the standard app and a $20 check to them :) And maybe include Solano and San Joaquin Counties' recent policy changes that were done "in accordance with State Law".

EDIT: now I saw Wildhawker's reply two posts up...

pgg
11-29-2010, 12:43 PM
We stopped by the Hanford PD today to pick up an application for my wife and to amend my permit with a new handgun.

A couple notes
The sign on the window listing fees specifies $160 for an initial application. I don't know if this is current or outdated; we just picked up the application and left.
The application they gave us appears to be identical to the standard application available here as a pdf.
They are now requiring three character reference letters - this is a change from my application approximately 1 year ago, which required neither references nor an interview.
The person at the window was friendly, professional, and helpful.

My wife will be submitting her application this week. How should she respond to a fee request in excess of the PC 12054(a) $100 maximum? We don't want to make the application process any more antagonistic than it has to be, but OTOH a response like "the fee is $160, apply or don't, it's up to you" is both possible and not OK.

I had positive interactions with the Hanford PD when I applied for my permit last year (except for the 7+ months it took to be processed). We're hopeful this will be a reasonable process.

wildhawker
11-29-2010, 1:01 PM
I'd strongly urge NOT applying to Hanford PD and applying directly to the Sheriff using one of the approved good cause statements at www.gotcarry.org.

However, if you are set on applying to the PD (and we expect your wife will be denied), she can help us to clean up their policy by demanding that they follow the law. If she is interested in this route, PM me your phone number and I'll get in touch.

-Brandon

We stopped by the Hanford PD today to pick up an application for my wife and to amend my permit with a new handgun.

A couple notes
The sign on the window listing fees specifies $160 for an initial application. I don't know if this is current or outdated; we just picked up the application and left.
The application they gave us appears to be identical to the standard application available here as a pdf.
They are now requiring three character reference letters - this is a change from my application approximately 1 year ago, which required neither references nor an interview.
The person at the window was friendly, professional, and helpful.

My wife will be submitting her application this week. How should she respond to a fee request in excess of the PC 12054(a) $100 maximum? We don't want to make the application process any more antagonistic than it has to be, but OTOH a response like "the fee is $160, apply or don't, it's up to you" is both possible and not OK.

I had positive interactions with the Hanford PD when I applied for my permit last year (except for the 7+ months it took to be processed). We're hopeful this will be a reasonable process.

Operator
11-30-2010, 7:44 AM
I talked to my friend at the Pd about the $160 fee. It is my understanding that this is the fed and local fee in one. I know they are not suposed to charge it all at once, and I might be able to approach him on that. But I wouldn't automatically assume she's not going to be approved.

I wonder about the sheriff's office...Jordan is just waiting for the end of the year. As I understand Robison is in the meetings now days seeing as he will be making all the up comming desicions. I can just imagine them sitting on your application till the turn of the year and then it not being a priority for Robison. Heaven knows he has a lot to accomplish in Jordans wake.

greasemonkey
11-30-2010, 7:53 AM
I wonder about the sheriff's office...Jordan is just waiting for the end of the year. As I understand Robison is in the meetings now days seeing as he will be making all the up comming desicions. I can just imagine them sitting on your application till the turn of the year and then it not being a priority for Robison. Heaven knows he has a lot to accomplish in Jordans wake.

I figure now is a perfect time to apply the CGF way since Robinson is setting his strategy right now, it'd be good for him to be introduced to how the process oughta be before he takes the typical "discretion" and makes up his own rules. Forget Chris, he won't make a decision on an app right now but it'll definitely be brought to their attention...it's perfect timing.

Operator
12-01-2010, 8:45 AM
I figure now is a perfect time to apply the CGF way since Robinson is setting his strategy right now, it'd be good for him to be introduced to how the process oughta be before he takes the typical "discretion" and makes up his own rules. Forget Chris, he won't make a decision on an app right now but it'll definitely be brought to their attention...it's perfect timing.

Ya, it makes sense,Now would be a good time to address this. I just don't think he will see it as big priority. He's going to look to the PD for advice in the short term, till he gets his legs. A law suit from CGF might make it a priority, but I can't imagine Kings County is a high Priority for CGF either.

Question for CGF:
Are the county DA's any help in this effort go get LE to follow the PC?

wildhawker
12-01-2010, 9:15 AM
This isn't in the realm of the DA's jurisdiction. We'll address this with state and federal civil suits.

Also, don't be too invested in the thought that we aren't looking at Kings.

Operator
12-01-2010, 4:04 PM
I'm not suggesting we are being neglected, the reality is that there are more populated places that should be a priority. Use the CGF fund to help as many people as possible, that means spending on highly populated areas.
I get it. I'm not worried, it will happen, when it happens.

I think CGF is doing a wonderful job, I'm very impressed with the way the board uses it's resources and the way they spend the incredibly valuable money that has been donated.

Keep it up Brandon.

hoffmang
12-01-2010, 9:01 PM
I'm not suggesting we are being neglected, the reality is that there are more populated places that should be a priority. Use the CGF fund to help as many people as possible, that means spending on highly populated areas.

Sometimes the best way to win in the populated areas is to fight in the low budget, unpopulated areas...

-Gene

Operator
12-02-2010, 8:50 PM
Sometimes the best way to win in the populated areas is to fight in the low budget, unpopulated areas...

-Gene

Good Point, in that case, I would recommend Kings as a good next stop. This might even be viewed by the new sheriff as a good way to get some public support early on in this new job of his. I would assume Hanford PD is the biggest issuer of CCW's and from personal experience I can say that they are open to reason, and are willing to do things the way the PC says they should.

Might be an inexpensive win here.

wildhawker
12-02-2010, 9:07 PM
With few, very specific exceptions, we're not interested in PDs. Win the county level and you win for every resident of that jurisdiction, and avoid (g) games.

-Brandon

Good Point, in that case, I would recommend Kings as a good next stop. This might even be viewed by the new sheriff as a good way to get some public support early on in this new job of his. I would assume Hanford PD is the biggest issuer of CCW's and from personal experience I can say that they are open to reason, and are willing to do things the way the PC says they should.

Might be an inexpensive win here.

five.five-six
12-02-2010, 9:08 PM
I remember when Harrot was news :p

Operator
12-02-2010, 9:17 PM
With few, very specific exceptions, we're not interested in PDs. Win the county level and you win for every resident of that jurisdiction, and avoid (g) games.

-Brandon

What I meant by this was that I think the PD would support it. In Kings county I think there would be a better reaction from the Sheriff if HPD was supporting it.

easy
01-05-2011, 8:19 PM
There is a #12 about a letter from your employer. I work on NASL for a defense contractorand there is now weapons carry on base. Would #12 still apply?

PORCH
01-23-2011, 9:23 AM
There was an article in the Sentinel yesterday about the new Sheriff David Robinson. He says he has an open door policy and works for the tax payers. Sounds like it's time for CGF to go pay him a visit. Link (http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/local/article_ac06f6d4-25d9-11e0-a626-001cc4c03286.html)

"I work for the taxpayers and the community," Robinson told The Sentinel. "So it's my job to be available whenever I can for whoever should walk through my door. If I have a minute, then you get a minute. If I have a half hour, then you can have a half hour."

"I have an open-door policy," he explained. "I want people to come in and share their ideas. My only rule is that if you bring a problem, then also bring a solution, and let's work on it together."

pgg
01-23-2011, 12:03 PM
There was an article in the Sentinel yesterday about the new Sheriff David Robinson. He says he has an open door policy and works for the tax payers. Sounds like it's time for CGF to go pay him a visit. Link (http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/local/article_ac06f6d4-25d9-11e0-a626-001cc4c03286.html)

I met him a month or so ago and specifically asked him if he was going to take a more shall-issue approach to CCW, and if "personal defense" would be accepted as good cause.

The short answer is that while he said he'd be very liberal in granting them to ordinary citizens, discretionary issue will continue. He pointed out that California as a whole is definitely not shall issue (as if we all didn't know that already :)), and it seems his impression of CCW is that he has some concerns about citizens who'd like to take the law into their own hands and do the job of the police. I'd like to think he doesn't have silly visions of CCW'ers out on the streets stalking drug dealers.

The proof will be in what he does. Despite the above he seemed fairly pro-CCW but it was hard to tell. The context of our conversation wasn't the usual LEO-citizen interaction; he was out of uniform and at my place of business, so it's possible he just wanted to placate and not annoy me.


I have a CCW issued last year by the Hanford police department, who told my wife to "not bother" applying. Her application through the Sheriff is complete and just waiting for her to drop it off (probably this week). Her good cause statement is a brief "personal defense" with a couple lines about our recent break-in.

wildhawker
01-23-2011, 7:44 PM
Typical statist anti-liberty politico we call Sheriff.

He'll get his soon, even if we have to have a Federal judge compel it.

ETA: What does a break-in have to do with bear outside the home, unless you were specifically targeted?

pgg
01-24-2011, 8:07 AM
Typical statist anti-liberty politico we call Sheriff.

He'll get his soon, even if we have to have a Federal judge compel it.

ETA: What does a break-in have to do with bear outside the home, unless you were specifically targeted?


Sorry, I wasn't clear, it was a vehicle break-in in our driveway and is just one verifiable data point that speaks to the overall criminal element and risk that is present once we leave our home.

G60
01-31-2011, 6:00 PM
I'm still waiting for word from the Right People, but I have a couple friends who have stopped by the sheriffs office to pick up applications, and were told that they have to go through HPD because KCSO and HPD 'have an agreement.' they were able to get an application however. Is there anyone on here I should have them contact? I assume the more people who have been given false information by LE, the better for us as a whole.

greasemonkey
01-31-2011, 7:47 PM
Wildhawker & Graypetersen have the official word on go-time, I've got a list of people ready to apply, as well. You don't even have to go in and pick up an application, you can fill out and print the .pdf CA-DOJ Standard Application and just mail it in along with a few other details per The Right People.
And yes, that is one of the illegal policies expected to be done away with when this is all over.

I'm still waiting for word from the Right People, but I have a couple friends who have stopped by the sheriffs office to pick up applications, and were told that they have to go through HPD because KCSO and HPD 'have an agreement.' they were able to get an application however. Is there anyone on here I should have them contact? I assume the more people who have been given false information by LE, the better for us as a whole.

pgg
02-01-2011, 3:25 PM
Wildhawker & Graypetersen have the official word on go-time, I've got a list of people ready to apply, as well. You don't even have to go in and pick up an application, you can fill out and print the .pdf CA-DOJ Standard Application and just mail it in along with a few other details per The Right People.
And yes, that is one of the illegal policies expected to be done away with when this is all over.

So ... my wife's app is ready to turn in to the Sheriff. Should she wait until the apply-now flag is raised?

Otherwise, tomorrow may as well be the day.

wildhawker
02-01-2011, 10:09 PM
So ... my wife's app is ready to turn in to the Sheriff. Should she wait until the apply-now flag is raised?

Otherwise, tomorrow may as well be the day.

It's really up to you. Kings absolutely has some issues with their policy, but there is a strategic path which requires some finality in other jurisdictions. I'm time-limited and don't want to overcommit to Kings applicants, but I think those who want to reform the policy should count on some instruction being available soon. Those who simply want to apply should not wait on the Initiative, but we would appreciate being kept informed of status and outcomes either here or by email.

G60
07-15-2011, 6:54 PM
KCSO has updated their CCW policy and posted it online:
http://www.countyofkings.com/sheriff/docs/CCW%20App%20Instructions.pdf

seems they may be thumbing their noses at us seeing how the new policy has a few more issues than the old policy, most noticeably:

" Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?...
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff. "

and:
" Three (3) letters of character reference"

which i do not see in the old policy, available on the sunshine initiative site.

choprzrul
07-15-2011, 7:15 PM
Sounds like they are missing Brandon's love letters.....

.

greasemonkey
07-15-2011, 10:51 PM
Sounds like they are missing Brandon's love letters.....

.
They're not missing his letters, the current Sheriff's administrative staff and legal counsel probably actually understands what Brandon's letters are attempting to say, it's just that they actually believe that their "discretion" with CCWs is that they get to write whatever laws they want and that the State Laws are merely suggestions or a starting point of reference.

wildhawker
07-15-2011, 11:08 PM
They're not missing his letters, the current Sheriff's administrative staff and legal counsel probably actually understands what Brandon's letters are attempting to say, it's just that they actually believe that their "discretion" with CCWs is that they get to write whatever laws they want and that the State Laws are merely suggestions or a starting point of reference.

Let them think so. Jason's gotta eat somehow.

PORCH
07-17-2011, 3:00 PM
KCSO has updated their CCW policy and posted it online:
http://www.countyofkings.com/sheriff/docs/CCW%20App%20Instructions.pdf

seems they may be thumbing their noses at us seeing how the new policy has a few more issues than the old policy, most noticeably:

" Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?...
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff. "

and:
" Three (3) letters of character reference"

which i do not see in the old policy, available on the sunshine initiative site.

Those may not have been in the previous written policy but those provisions have been around since at least 2009 when Jordan was Sheriff. I inquired about getting one then.

AEC1
07-19-2011, 9:39 AM
I saw this as well, and it concerns me, that is why I am taking orders to Lemoore...


"4. Are you active military or a military dependent?
If your answer is no, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office.
If your answer is yes, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office. Your packet must include a letter from your Commanding Officer stating their awareness of your application and a comment regarding any policy, which may affect your ability to carry a concealed weapon while working."


Can they require this information from my employer?

greasemonkey
07-19-2011, 11:44 AM
No, they can not require any additional forms and this portion of the application policy that's been wrongfully recycled from past illegal policies of Kings County stinks bad.

AEC1
07-28-2011, 7:54 PM
So lets sue em...

pgg
08-01-2011, 8:12 PM
I saw this as well, and it concerns me, that is why I am taking orders to Lemoore...


"4. Are you active military or a military dependent?
If your answer is no, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office.
If your answer is yes, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office. Your packet must include a letter from your Commanding Officer stating their awareness of your application and a comment regarding any policy, which may affect your ability to carry a concealed weapon while working."

That's interesting. I'm active duty military @ Lemoore and put my CCW app in through the Hanford police department. They did ask me (paraphrase) 'since you work on base and can't carry there, why do you want a permit?' ... but were satisfied with my answer that I'd only carry off base. I think I applied in Oct or Nov 2009 and it was issued Jun 2010.

greasemonkey
08-01-2011, 9:28 PM
Kings County has been noticed and it wouldn't be the first time (see Harrott v. County of Kings (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Old_Litigation_Table)). That said, there are Counties who are reaching out TO CGF for help drafting their department policies that they're now magically working on since Merced was served papers :)

As with the rest of the Counties, suing them really is the last option pursued. There may be an opportunity for CGF and some constituents to have a viable, friendly influence without having to go to court. (This really has no bearing now but the last Sheriff, Jordan, had some disgusting Equal Protection issues that just didn't come up in time before he was effectively run out of office by the voters on election day. Those would have made some BEAUTIFUL court cases.)

So lets sue em...

pgg
08-02-2011, 3:22 PM
My wife just went to the Kings County Sheriff's office to submit her CCW application. She was told Appointment needed, can't just drop off standard DOJ application - OK, no problem.
Three letters of character reference needed - not a problem, but illegal.
Must complete a CCW class ahead of time - not a problem, but I don't believe this is OK either.
Fee of $129 paid in advance - not a problem, but I didn't think this was allowed. When I got my CCW through the PD, they collected the fee only after reviewing my application and approving it.
Letter of rejection from Hanford Police Department - not OK, illegal.
She needs to bring the gun(s) to be listed on the permit to the appointment - OK, but kind of weird.


She's signed up to take the CCW course, which is no big deal. It'll be needed eventually, and The Range in Fresno puts on a good course that's worth going to in its own right. Time and money for training is always time and money well spent.

She's asked three appropriate people to write letters for her. We know this is an illegal requirement, but for the moment it seems easier to jump through the hoops.

As for the letter of rejection from the police department, she's just going to write her own letter documenting our experience there. Which was, to give an exact quote, "don't bother applying" because they don't approve applications for "personal defense" as good cause.


I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?

wildhawker
08-02-2011, 7:11 PM
I'd like to setup a meeting with both the KCSO and Hanford PD to discuss these issues. How feasible would it be for you both to join? You can email me at bcombs at calgunsfoundation dot org to discuss offline.

-Brandon

My wife just went to the Kings County Sheriff's office to submit her CCW application. She was told Appointment needed, can't just drop off standard DOJ application - OK, no problem.
Three letters of character reference needed - not a problem, but illegal.
Must complete a CCW class ahead of time - not a problem, but I don't believe this is OK either.
Fee of $129 paid in advance - not a problem, but I didn't think this was allowed. When I got my CCW through the PD, they collected the fee only after reviewing my application and approving it.
Letter of rejection from Hanford Police Department - not OK, illegal.
She needs to bring the gun(s) to be listed on the permit to the appointment - OK, but kind of weird.


She's signed up to take the CCW course, which is no big deal. It'll be needed eventually, and The Range in Fresno puts on a good course that's worth going to in its own right. Time and money for training is always time and money well spent.

She's asked three appropriate people to write letters for her. We know this is an illegal requirement, but for the moment it seems easier to jump through the hoops.

As for the letter of rejection from the police department, she's just going to write her own letter documenting our experience there. Which was, to give an exact quote, "don't bother applying" because they don't approve applications for "personal defense" as good cause.


I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?

G60
08-05-2011, 8:11 AM
I'm a little upset by the fact that the Sheriff's office is at best ignorant of the laws they're entrusted to uphold, and at worst deliberately flaunting them. Perhaps some kind but stern words from CGF would help bring their CCW policies more in line with state law?

I'm gravitating towards deliberately violating such laws.

I'm unsure of how much water such things hold, but I spoke with someone who spoke at length with a DA investigator about the 'must apply to HPD first' policy, and he was told in so many words "they know it's not legal, the policy is political", and "they'll check if you applied to HPD first, and deny you automatically if not"

wildhawker
08-05-2011, 9:06 AM
Anyone who would *like to* apply to KCSO without jumping through all of the hoops, please send your name, phone, and email address to: bcombs at calgunsfoundation.org.

greasemonkey
08-05-2011, 12:12 PM
I'm gravitating towards deliberately violating such laws.

I'm unsure of how much water such things hold, but I spoke with someone who spoke at length with a DA investigator about the 'must apply to HPD first' policy, and he was told in so many words "they know it's not legal, the policy is political", and "they'll check if you applied to HPD first, and deny you automatically if not"

WHAAAAAAT?! A County Sheriff so brazen as to believe the law does not apply to them...shocking :D


:hide:

pgg
08-05-2011, 3:07 PM
I'd like to setup a meeting with both the KCSO and Hanford PD to discuss these issues. How feasible would it be for you both to join? You can email me at bcombs at calgunsfoundation dot org to discuss offline.

-Brandon

Check your mail ...

G60
08-11-2011, 1:52 PM
Anyone who would *like to* apply to KCSO without jumping through all of the hoops, please send your name, phone, and email address to: bcombs at calgunsfoundation.org.

Email sent. Thanks again for all the foundation does.

CodaMan
09-14-2011, 8:44 AM
I just started working on my Kings County CCW. I'll keep you up to date on the process.

O_S_P_76
09-20-2011, 5:34 PM
e-mail sent.
Hope the time frame is still good, just caught this thread via Bing search.

--------------------------------------------
I use Bing because G****e's agenda and mine are diametrically opposed.

O_S_P_76
10-12-2011, 8:49 AM
I picked up my Hanford P.D. CCW packet today.
I'll begin the process and keep apprised of steps here.
Please PM or email any updates I should be aware of.
Thank you, tj

greasemonkey
10-12-2011, 10:10 PM
I picked up my Hanford P.D. CCW packet today.
I'll begin the process and keep apprised of steps here.
Please PM or email any updates I should be aware of.
Thank you, tj

Curious why P.D. instead of the Sheriff?

CodaMan
10-13-2011, 5:16 AM
The Kings County Sheriff requires that you apply through your local Police Chief. Should the local P.D. decline the request then the Sheriff's Dept. will review the application and make a decision on the issue.

O_S_P_76
10-13-2011, 5:18 AM
2. Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?
If your answer is no and you reside in the unincorporated of Kings County,
please proceed to the next question.
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff.
-tj

greasemonkey
10-13-2011, 5:59 AM
The Kings County Sheriff requires that you apply through your local Police Chief. Should the local P.D. decline the request then the Sheriff's Dept. will review the application and make a decision on the issue.

-tj


The entire point of CalGuns Foundation's License-to-Carry Initiative is to remove illegal burdens (like this one). Did you guys contact Wildhawker? It's actually easier and cheaper to apply through the CGF's process (State Law) than it is to attempt to comply with the Sheriff's illegal policy (arbitrary, 'made up' rules that do not comply with State Law [illegal]).

Anyone who would *like to* apply to KCSO without jumping through all of the hoops, please send your name, phone, and email address to: bcombs at calgunsfoundation.org.

O_S_P_76
10-13-2011, 6:30 AM
I emailed bcombs and have not heard back so I decided to begin the front door process. I'll PM this time in reference to this thread to see if it's being followed and if another channel can be utilized. - tj

O_S_P_76
10-14-2011, 7:08 AM
It's actually easier and cheaper to apply through the CGF's process

I've searched the foundation site and cannot find the route to do this. Any direction? Thanks.

greasemonkey
10-14-2011, 4:00 PM
I emailed bcombs and have not heard back so I decided to begin the front door process. I'll PM this time in reference to this thread to see if it's being followed and if another channel can be utilized. - tj

How long ago? Keep in mind that there are only a small handful of people working on documents & processes for all 58 Counties, including the ones with open lawsuits, so it might be a few days before he can reply.

Kings County (http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/104-kings.html) License to Carry page, read through the links, namely the 'fillable DOJ standard application' (has an example and a fillable application) and then read through the Sheriff's 'Local CCW Policy', it's a sad joke. Also, see the known accepted Good Cause Statements to see if any are similar to yours...all things considered legally equal, if they've approved someone else but deny you for a similar GC, they're uh, well, it would be unwise of them to do so :)

You didn't pay for your Hanford PD application yet, did you? That's one area they like to get people, illegally require applicants to get denied (and pay) through Hanford PD first, then you can pay your fees to the Sheriff, THEN they'll tell you if you're good enough for them.

O_S_P_76
10-14-2011, 4:54 PM
Application is complete and I'm gathering my three reference letters now.
It's 11 bucks to submit.
Prior to submitting the rest of the other fees, I'll visit Chief Maestas to see about the likelihood of getting permitted.
If it gets sideways, I'll request an outright denial and pursue the KCSO.
My contact there indicates high incidence of permitting.

Look, if these guys are stretched thin, I can relate.
Three weeks is reasonable to wait for a reply to a request for information.
I was responding to:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Anyone who would *like to* apply to KCSO without jumping through all of the hoops, please send your name, phone, and email address to: bcombs at calgunsfoundation.org.

Can'thavenuthingood
11-03-2011, 7:03 PM
Application is complete and I'm gathering my three reference letters now.
It's 11 bucks to submit.
Prior to submitting the rest of the other fees, I'll visit Chief Maestas to see about the likelihood of getting permitted.
If it gets sideways, I'll request an outright denial and pursue the KCSO.
My contact there indicates high incidence of permitting.

Look, if these guys are stretched thin, I can relate.
Three weeks is reasonable to wait for a reply to a request for information.
I was responding to:


How is this moving along?
Still pending?


Vick

O_S_P_76
11-03-2011, 9:35 PM
Interesting timing of your inquiry, I am just sitting down after completing my CCW class, now have that certificate to present w/packet.
My three recc'd. letters are still not completed.
One of my letters is coming from active LEO so I'm not pressing it's completion. The other two are from retired professionals, and I'm having some difficulty crossing paths with them. Now that the CCW class has been completed, I'm putting the process back on front burner.
More later.

greasemonkey
11-04-2011, 5:22 AM
The Kings County Sheriff requires that you apply through your local Police Chief. Should the local P.D. decline the request then the Sheriff's Dept. will review the application and make a decision on the issue.

2. Do you reside inside the city limits of Avenal, Corcoran, Hanford or
Lemoore?
If your answer is no and you reside in the unincorporated of Kings County,
please proceed to the next question.
If your answer is yes, please contact the Police Department of the city in which
you reside. If your application gets denied by your local police department, you
may then be eligible to apply with the Kings County Sheriff.-tj
I'm glad you both mentioned that, it's one of the many parts of their policy that are in direct conflict with State Law.

Interesting timing of your inquiry, I am just sitting down after completing my CCW class, now have that certificate to present w/packet.
My three recc'd. letters are still not completed.
One of my letters is coming from active LEO so I'm not pressing it's completion. The other two are from retired professionals, and I'm having some difficulty crossing paths with them. Now that the CCW class has been completed, I'm putting the process back on front burner.
More later.

The three letters fall under the category of any documentation in addition to the Standard Application, which is not allowed by State Law. If they can articulate a substantive reason to believe that you're lying under penalty of perjury on a State form, that could be grounds for more investigation.

Besides, what are three letters going to prove, that you can find 3 people to say nice things about you?? Or that you know "someone"...business deals, benefits and privileges are for the "good ole boys club", not Civil Rights issues.

I guess your documentation of complying with the illegal application process could potentially benefit other people just so they can see how ridiculous it is...

Can'thavenuthingood
11-04-2011, 7:31 PM
Thanks for the update O_S_P_76, I'm fixing to gin up an app here shortly and was curious as to your progress.

greasemonkey I agree this process is more of a hoopex designed to discourage. I think the departments are working together with the wrong attitude. Ought to be reinforcing the common good or at least the perception of it rather than thwarting the law abiding.
No telling what the future holds in store.

Vick

AEC1
11-15-2011, 7:40 PM
Wife is disabled and I am getting ready to deploy, Live on NAS, I think I go right to the sherriff right?

greasemonkey
11-16-2011, 4:54 PM
Hand-deliver the application to the KCSO and make them give you a denial in writing...then the fun begins :) Also, don't include a letter from you C.O., seeing as how that's an illegal additional form they're requiring of you.

Wife is disabled and I am getting ready to deploy, Live on NAS, I think I go right to the sherriff right?
I saw this as well, and it concerns me, that is why I am taking orders to Lemoore...


"4. Are you active military or a military dependent?
If your answer is no, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office.
If your answer is yes, you may be eligible to submit a completed application packet to the Kings County Sheriff's Office. Your packet must include a letter from your Commanding Officer stating their awareness of your application and a comment regarding any policy, which may affect your ability to carry a concealed weapon while working."


Can they require this information from my employer?

CodaMan
12-17-2011, 3:57 PM
Interesting timing of your inquiry, I am just sitting down after completing my CCW class, now have that certificate to present w/packet.
My three recc'd. letters are still not completed.
One of my letters is coming from active LEO so I'm not pressing it's completion. The other two are from retired professionals, and I'm having some difficulty crossing paths with them. Now that the CCW class has been completed, I'm putting the process back on front burner.
More later.

I'm wondering why you took your CCW class when the HFPD instructions say to wait for permit approval before taking?

CodaMan
01-13-2012, 1:22 PM
An update on my application ...

- Submitted to the Hanford Police Dept. 12/13/11

- Have heard nothing as of today

- Called Debbie Gregory at records today [1/13/12] She stated that the application was passed to the Captain (which only review them once a month) on 12/14/11 and that she has not received it back. She also stated that I will either receive a call from her to come in and get fingerprinted or that I will receive a denial letter in the mail.

Note: She did inform me that more are being approved than are denied. She asked me what my good cause was but had no comment after I informed her.

I guess I will wait a couple more weeks in the hope of hearing something.

pgg
02-15-2012, 8:33 PM
My wife dropped off her completed application packet at the Hanford police department today.

Debbie later called her and stated that three letters of reference were required. She said it's their requirement AND the DOJ's requirement.

Obviously this is in direct conflict with state law. She is nonetheless collecting the letters and will submit them.


How stands the CGF efforts to educate Kings County Sheriff's Office and Hanford PD? It's been 4 or 5 months since this was supposedly going to happen and we made ourselves available to participate, but nothing ever came of it, so she just got tired of waiting and dropped off the application today.

I know CGF has limited resources but it would be nice to know where Kings County stands in the queue of corrective education and action.

wildhawker
02-15-2012, 9:14 PM
The Kings County sheriff should be receiving a letter tomorrow or Friday.

-Brandon

pgg
02-16-2012, 5:44 PM
The Kings County sheriff should be receiving a letter tomorrow or Friday.

-Brandon

Nice. CC the Hanford PD while you're at it! :)

Thanks for your work.

CodaMan
02-27-2012, 12:31 PM
I just completed my CCW class at "The Range" in Fresno. They stated that CCW holders are prohibited from carrying at the following places. Does this sound right?

- All Federal buildings - no brainer

- All State buildings - Really?

- Major sporting events - Really?

- Political events and rallies - Really?

- Schools - ?

Are there official references for where you cannot carry?

Thanks...

wildhawker
02-27-2012, 3:35 PM
I also did a course at The Range and found instances of inaccurate info such as some of your bullet points. I'm going to send the owner (a lawyer) a letter when I can carve out a couple of hours.

CodaMan
02-27-2012, 3:36 PM
Great! I hate to see wrong information passed out.

greasemonkey
02-27-2012, 4:23 PM
Several of those points are based off of what restrictions are printed on the back of Fresno County's carry permits. Fresno County has a hefty number of restrictions printed on the back for having a 'friendly' issuance policy.

I just completed my CCW class at "The Range" in Fresno. They stated that CCW holders are prohibited from carrying at the following places. Does this sound right?

- All Federal buildings - no brainer

- All State buildings - Really?

- Major sporting events - Really?

- Political events and rallies - Really?

- Schools - ?

Are there official references for where you cannot carry?

Thanks...

I also did a course at The Range and found instances of inaccurate info such as some of your bullet points. I'm going to send the owner (a lawyer) a letter when I can carve out a couple of hours.

CodaMan
02-27-2012, 4:55 PM
Several of those points are based off of what restrictions are printed on the back of Fresno County's carry permits. Fresno County has a hefty number of restrictions printed on the back for having a 'friendly' issuance policy.


The course was not directed towards any county, in fact we had students from 5 counties and these statements were said to be state restrictions.

greasemonkey
02-27-2012, 7:33 PM
The course was not directed towards any county, in fact we had students from 5 counties and these statements were said to be state restrictions.
Correct, I was more commenting on why The Range includes some incorrect information in their CCW Course. It's either because County Counsel took notes from The Range or the owner of The Range took notes from County Counsel. Which is which is of little consequence as they're both incorrect.

CodaMan
03-22-2012, 11:36 AM
- Application submitted to Hanford PD on 12/13/2011 [$11 fee]

- Hanford PD interview -- 2/16/2012

- Fingerprints taken -- 2/29/2012 [$149 fee]

- License Issued -- 3/19/2012

- License restrictions -- None

AEC1
04-17-2012, 6:45 PM
- Application submitted to Hanford PD on 12/13/2011 [$11 fee]

- Hanford PD interview -- 2/16/2012

- Fingerprints taken -- 2/29/2012 [$149 fee]

- License Issued -- 3/19/2012

- License restrictions -- None


Win!

Wife should be applying next month. Just have to get her a CA ID.

pgg
04-22-2012, 3:42 PM
- Application submitted to Hanford PD on 12/13/2011 [$11 fee]

- Hanford PD interview -- 2/16/2012

- Fingerprints taken -- 2/29/2012 [$149 fee]

- License Issued -- 3/19/2012

- License restrictions -- None

Did they ask for, and did you provide, the three reference letters?

CodaMan
04-22-2012, 3:45 PM
Yes they did and I provided.

AEC1
01-05-2013, 9:14 AM
According to Kings new posted requirements not only do you need referance letters, but also a letter from your employer as well, this used to be only for active duty military... When will this clown get the picture?

Can'thavenuthingood
01-05-2013, 10:33 AM
According to Kings new posted requirements not only do you need referance letters, but also a letter from your employer as well, this used to be only for active duty military... When will this clown get the picture?

Someone needs to apply with CGF on point, make a case out of it. I do wonder what the ramifications of such actions might be in this relatively small community though. Sure we're legally protected from such actions but prove it.
Hassles are a headache.

Vick

ROAD_DOG
01-23-2013, 10:56 PM
Ok i got a question since i live in Avenal and i work for a trucking company in huron which is in fresno county would i have to apply for a ccw through kings county or can i apply through fresno county. reason i ask is that my job involves the agriculture industry in transporting to a rancher field and back to the produce processor and seeing that i am alone 95% of the time in the fields and there being a gang problem in huron and a couple of shootings and homicides and the gang members have been known to trespass on rancher property makes me want to apply for a ccw..

Can'thavenuthingood
01-25-2013, 9:05 AM
Ok i got a question since i live in Avenal and i work for a trucking company in huron which is in fresno county would i have to apply for a ccw through kings county or can i apply through fresno county. reason i ask is that my job involves the agriculture industry in transporting to a rancher field and back to the produce processor and seeing that i am alone 95% of the time in the fields and there being a gang problem in huron and a couple of shootings and homicides and the gang members have been known to trespass on rancher property makes me want to apply for a ccw..


I'm certain this all goes IAW your home address, your permanent residence. Sounds to me like you have good cause, look at some of the statements (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/104-kings)that worked to secure a License to Carry.

Vick

Can'thavenuthingood
01-25-2013, 9:09 AM
While I'm here I'd like to plug the upcoming Friends of the NRA Dinner for all the Kings County, Fresno and Visalia area.

Lemoore FNRA dinner is 23 March 2013 at 5pm.

Dinner tickets are $45 each

Location is West Hills College Golden Eagle Arena, 555 College Ave, Lemoore.

Each year this dinner gets bigger and bigger. We are expecting up to 650 folks this time as all the past ones were sold out.

Dinner pkg's. range from $375 to $5,750 for the Ultimate with 8 dinner tickets.

Each table above the $850 mark gets a choice of rifles.

Come on out, this is a hoot.

PM for more info.
OR email Vick at GunsR4.us

Vick

pgg
01-26-2013, 4:40 AM
Someone needs to apply with CGF on point, make a case out of it. I do wonder what the ramifications of such actions might be in this relatively small community though. Sure we're legally protected from such actions but prove it.
Hassles are a headache.

Vick

:shrug:

My wife & I have been standing by for two years now, ready and willing to make a case of it, in any manner that CGF felt would be best in a strategic sense. (See page 2 of this thread.) Had some contact with CGF but I guess other areas were a priority.

Kings Co Sheriff refused her app. Eventually applied through the Hanford PD, jumped through all their illegal hoops, denied anyway.

Again, :shrug:

I'm deployed now, she's given up. We're moving back to Virginia within a year of my return.

There's only so much one can do.

Zeke1979
02-01-2013, 1:12 PM
All the links to the good clause statements seem down. Any one else having problems getting to them?

Can'thavenuthingood
02-01-2013, 1:25 PM
All the links to the good clause statements seem down. Any one else having problems getting to them?

Yeah I'm getting its down also.
Seems odd, always worked prior to this.

Vick

404 - Component not found
You may not be able to visit this page because of:


an out-of-date bookmark/favourite
a search engine that has an out-of-date listing for this site
a mistyped address
you have no access to this page
The requested resource was not found.
An error has occurred while processing your request.

Please try one of the following pages:



Home Page (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/index.php)

If difficulties persist, please contact the System Administrator of this site.
Component not found

dwalker34
04-15-2013, 2:58 PM
Well as a new member, I'd like to say how great it is to see people who enjoy many of the same thing I like - being responsible for myself & family being at the top.
Located in Lemoore, out in the boonies - otwka Island District. With crime on the rise, and minimal patrol activity, it seems more & more prudent to take stronger measures to protect things, so my wife & I are pursuing ccw's. We've got the package assembled, and are waiting until the appt, but we're also looking for examples of GCS to help us along.
As noted above, the links remain down - page not located, etc. Anybody have any idea as to what is going on? There was no reply to can'thavenuthingood's post above.
Thanks

psubond
06-28-2013, 7:09 PM
bump, does anyone have a link and/or the good cause pdf file?

mudbass7
07-06-2013, 10:40 AM
bump, does anyone have a link and/or the good cause pdf file?

I've been looking for two days. Can't find any.

Can'thavenuthingood
07-06-2013, 1:46 PM
There was a whole herd of those critters here way back in the beginning of the Sunshine Initiative (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/carry-license-sunshine-and-compliance-initiative/)
I suspect whoever put them up went and took them down.
One of those 'I'll show you' type of things.
'It's my ball and I'm going home' etc.

My wife is wanting to get hers also though she needs to fill out the form.

The Visalia Sportsmans Assoc. has a class with Kings county specifics.

Last time I was out to the Lemoore Sportsmans club, about 6 weeks ago there was a class going on there.

As far as some good cause statements I'll look around some more, see if i can uncover a few samples.

Vick

Can'thavenuthingood
07-06-2013, 2:08 PM
On Calguns Foundation's site they have an example of a filled out carry permit application. (http://calgunsfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/DOJ_CCW_App_Fillable.pdf)
All they have for the good cause statement is this:

I wish to acquire a license to carry a functional firearm in order to lawfully exercise my
fundamental right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense.
In theory this should be all that is needed, however comma, this is designed to get someone to file a suit and get the Sheriff to issue based on the 2nd Amendment right. I do not know the actual success rate for this but I do know they have had a number of Sheriffs change their ways and comply with the written law.

From the CGF site (http://calgunsfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cgf_app_guide_2012.pdf);
CGF’s Carry License Sunshine and Compliance Initiative is a grassroots education and litigation campaign
designed to:
(A) procure and publish objective carry license related records and other data (going to actual issuance/denial, contours of policies (both as written and as applied);
(B) force licensing authorities to
comply with state statutes, precedent, and the Constitution;
(C) track and monitor local practices;
(D)support applicants and licensees; and
(E) develop and promulgate materials related to the above.
Sheriffs shouldn't be making us go back to the city Chief of Police for a first step.
I understand a 'heads up' for the Chief but that could be done after the Sheriff issues as I'm sure it is taking place.

You folks out in the County ought to be getting Carry permit easy enough.

Vick

mudbass7
07-08-2013, 1:58 AM
Spoke with a few SOs at work yesterday, asked them how Sheriff Robinson feels about CCWs and they all said he was friendly toward the idea and supportive. they said they know several instances where permits were denied by Hanford but approved by county.
They did say that if you live in the city, to try there first though. not that you HAVE to just more of a "chain of command" type of thing. which is understandable.

Can'thavenuthingood
07-08-2013, 6:28 AM
The Sheriff doesn't REQUIRE us to go through the city?
Its more of an expected courtesy to do so?

Vick


Spoke with a few SOs at work yesterday, asked them how Sheriff Robinson feels about CCWs and they all said he was friendly toward the idea and supportive. they said they know several instances where permits were denied by Hanford but approved by county.
They did say that if you live in the city, to try there first though. not that you HAVE to just more of a "chain of command" type of thing. which is understandable.

pgg
07-18-2013, 5:52 AM
The Sheriff doesn't REQUIRE us to go through the city?
Its more of an expected courtesy to do so?

Vick

Unless he has recently changed the policy, the Kings Co Sheriff's office will flat out refuse to accept an application if you haven't already tried through the police. A couple years ago I personally spoke with Sheriff Robinson about CCWs, and he seemed reasonable but simply wouldn't agree that shall issue was appropriate. Something about not wanting people taking the law into their own hands.

Hanford PD issued a CCW to me in 2010 (after about a 7 month delay IIRC), and renewed it in 2012 without drama. The PD also declined to issue one to my wife.

At one point CG was interested in working with Kings Co but that interest evaporated, or the resources were redirected elsewhere. Not sure which, or why.

We're leaving California anyway. Inshallah.

Can'thavenuthingood
07-25-2013, 10:26 AM
Good cause statements are still coming, hang in there.

The files still exist and are archived. As the new Calguns Foundation website is completed more information will be restored....

Vick

Brown1595
08-04-2013, 11:53 AM
I applies with HPD at the beginning of February. I was told that it would be a 2 month wait to hear anything. After 2 months I called and was told 4, after 4 I called and was told 6. Then I talked to the good people at the gun center and they told me that the Sheriff was now accepting all apps without having to go to HPD. I called the Sheriff's department and they confirmed this and said it was because HPD was making it so difficult. I did have to wait approx 3 months for my interview. They did give me my interview date as soon as I called. Hope this helps, my interview is next month.

ejwaddle
02-25-2014, 1:21 PM
I am getting ready to move to Lemoore and was wondering how difficult it is to get a CCW in Kings County.

ROAD_DOG
02-25-2014, 10:37 PM
I am getting ready to move to Lemoore and was wondering how difficult it is to get a CCW in Kings County.

call kings gun center they have all the info you need thier number is 559-585-2000 ask for Todd cotta, or Doug Hudson. But it's all pretty much the same thing lemoore residents have to go through I think a 6 or 8 hour course not sure but call kings gun center.

CodaMan
02-26-2014, 9:08 AM
Kings County (Hanford PD) CCW Renewal Time Line

2/13/2014 - Completed 4 hour CCW renewal class (The Range in Fresno) $65

2/18/2014 - Provided HPD with course certificate, simple 1 page renewal application, $25 check for HPD and $52 money order for CA DOJ

2/26/2014 - Picked up CCW --- Restrictions = NONE

Pretty painless

ROAD_DOG
02-26-2014, 3:58 PM
Kings County (Hanford PD) CCW Renewal Time Line

2/13/2014 - Completed 4 hour CCW renewal class (The Range in Fresno) $65

2/18/2014 - Provided HPD with course certificate, simple 1 page renewal application, $25 check for HPD and $52 money order for CA DOJ

2/26/2014 - Picked up CCW

Pretty painless

What did you put for good cause I know that May not be looked upon but in case it's needed to put down

CodaMan
02-27-2014, 8:11 AM
What did you put for good cause I know that May not be looked upon but in case it's needed to put down

PM'd you

Paladin
02-16-2015, 11:02 AM
I went to the KCSO's webpage (http://www.countyofkings.com/departments/public-safety/sheriff/concealed-weapon-permit) and downloaded their Word document titled, "Application Packet for License to Carry a Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW)". It says:

Citizens who show good cause for carrying a concealed weapon may be eligible. The Sheriff, giving consideration to the reasons stated in the application, will determine good cause. Good cause may be determined by a clear and present danger to the life of, or threat of great bodily injury to, the applicant, spouse, children, or other member of the applicant's immediate family, which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures, and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant's carrying of a concealed firearm. (emphasis added)

That sounds pretty much like the old CA AG's opinion letter re. GC from the 1970s.... :facepalm:

Looks like KCSO will have to be monitored for compliance w/Peruta if/when the mandate issues.

I'll add this info to the OP for new visitors.

fwiw I did not find any info re. CCWs on Hanford PD's website:
http://www.ci.hanford.ca.us/depts/police/default.asp

Can'thavenuthingood
02-16-2015, 12:19 PM
which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures, and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant's carrying of a concealed firearmLooking for anyway to discourage applications, one can ALWAYS justify anything.
Resembles an escape clause.
The term reasonably is subjective.

Vick

Can'thavenuthingood
02-26-2016, 3:07 PM
Kings County Sheriff is less than 90 days for 2 folks I know in City of Lemoore.
No hassle at all.
One took the CCW course from the new Kings Gun Center in Hanford.
Qualification was easy, took 2 guns.
Appears the qual intent was to merely see or witness that you knew what you were doing with handgun and could handle it safely.
Also, there was no "Go through your City Chief of Police first" stuff, just straight forward processing.

This was first CCW for both and first time application.

Vick

ROAD_DOG
04-08-2016, 5:40 PM
I just had my appointment today with Avenal PD I feel it went well for hung up on a question when the chief interviewed me but Monday I will go back to get finger prints done

Can'thavenuthingood
04-08-2016, 5:49 PM
I just had my appointment today with Avenal PD I feel it went well for hung up on a question when the chief interviewed me but Monday I will go back to get finger prints done

Was there a reason you went to the Avenal PD Chief for interview rather than going straight to the county Sheriff?

Vick

ROAD_DOG
04-08-2016, 5:53 PM
Was there a reason you went to the Avenal PD Chief for interview rather than going straight to the county Sheriff?

Vick

County sheriff is a long waiting list to apply here at avenal pd I just called set up an appointment and done and from what I heard avenal police chief is pretty good at issuing

Can'thavenuthingood
04-09-2016, 6:25 AM
County sheriff is a long waiting list to apply here at avenal pd I just called set up an appointment and done and from what I heard avenal police chief is pretty good at issuing

I thought the county Sheriff was the issuing authority?
Wouldn't you still have to go through the Sheriff?

Vick

ROAD_DOG
04-11-2016, 12:58 PM
I thought the county Sheriff was the issuing authority?
Wouldn't you still have to go through the Sheriff?

Vick

Well before Avenal PD got initiated Kings County Sheriff was the policing force here so yeah sheriff was the issuing authority but now it's Avenal pd