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obeygiant
10-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Fresno County CCW Policy, Guidelines and Forms can be found Here (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative/98-fresno)

Sheriff Mims, in this NRA video (she begins at 2 min 14 sec in), says requiring a "Good Cause" is discriminatory and unconstitutional and is a form of gun control.

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UPDATE: 2014 Sept 22: the Fresno Police Dept now accepts mere "self-defense" as sufficient Good Cause acc to the info in this post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=14929693#post14929693

This from the Fresno PD's website (http://www.fresno.gov/Government/DepartmentDirectory/Police/SelfHelpResources/ApplyCCW.htm) (2015 Sept 06):

GOOD CAUSE DETERMINATION
Good Cause is defined as any citizen concerned for the safety of themselves, their family and friends or their employees. An investigation will be conducted into the applicant’s statement of good cause. The determination of good cause should consider the totality of circumstances in each individual case.

greasemonkey
10-18-2010, 3:34 PM
Well, this is gonna be fun!!

exklusve
10-18-2010, 3:38 PM
:iagree:

greasemonkey
10-21-2010, 10:23 AM
Is it time for people to start applying? Is there a CGF preferred procedure or should we just document how Fresno County wants us to go through it?

wildhawker
10-21-2010, 10:38 AM
We will be giving specific instructions going forward. If it doesn't come from me, Gene, Brett or Gray, it probably isn't time to move yet.

Homebrew2
11-18-2010, 4:54 PM
Is there anything of substance that is proposed to be addressed by this initiative in Fresno county? I'm willing to sponsor but I don't see any way that the scope of this initiative can improve Maggie's process in a donation-effective way. Soliciting input.

wildhawker
11-18-2010, 5:00 PM
Fresno's policy is illegal in a number of ways. We understand that the Sheriff also has quite a backlog and sets appointments for months out - effectively denying you a right to bear arms for self-defense and your Due Process of Law. More, I do not believe (based on the info I have) that Fresno is "shall issue", just "very liberal issue".

Homebrew2
11-18-2010, 6:48 PM
I apologize for being vague. I was actually asking for detailed input as to the specific plan to reform Fresno county's CCW process.

I am already completely aware of the time frame issue, the fee issue, etc, etc.

From what we understand, these are not cost/resource effective violations to correct in the grand scheme of CCW, let alone bearing arms and due process. Hence my question.

Our research indicates that you are correct that Fresno county is not "shall issue" but it is vSI and that self defense = good cause. My query is how our situation can be substantially improved upon within the apparent limited parameters of the initiative.

wildhawker
11-18-2010, 6:58 PM
Who is "our", and what "limited parameters" are you referring to? Those in our press release, or are you on our conference calls?

I think it's time you speak plainly.

Homebrew2
11-18-2010, 7:10 PM
"Our" includes myself and a number of other associates of mine. Sorry, I could have just said "my", didn't know it would come under such scrutiny.

"Limited ..." = not constitutional carry.

I thought my questions re: specific plan(s) was plainly spoken. What specific plans are there for Fresno county CCW reform?

Homebrew2
11-18-2010, 7:18 PM
BTW, how does one get on the conference call list?

greasemonkey
11-18-2010, 8:25 PM
Fresno's policy is illegal in a number of ways. We understand that the Sheriff also has quite a backlog and sets appointments for months out - effectively denying you a right to bear arms for self-defense and your Due Process of Law. More, I do not believe (based on the info I have) that Fresno is "shall issue", just "very liberal issue".

Homebrew, I added the bold for emphasis. I'm also not sure what else you're asking for. Brandon pretty clearly laid out that he knows exactly how Mims is not in compliance with State law and is effectively denying (unnecessarily delaying) the right to bear arms; also judging by the 'very liberal issue' comment there seem to be some discrepancies with the GC statement. Their very specific plan is to go through all of the illegal policies, ask them to change them, go to court if they don't.

When will they get to Fresno? As soon as the road map for coordinating the initiative for all 58 counties says it's go time.

All of that to say, yes they have a very specific plan for Fresno(where there's quite a bit of tidying up to do) and it'll happen when they get the desired results from whatever counties/lawsuits are lined up before Fresno. After Fresno, they'll move on to whatever counties remain.

Stay tuned to this thread, when they're ready to move here in Fresno, they'll definitely make some loud announcements.

peterabbits
11-28-2010, 7:36 PM
looking forward to doing whatever i can to help, however little it may be.

obeygiant
11-28-2010, 7:58 PM
looking forward to doing whatever i can to help, however little it may be.

You may have already done so but just in case you haven't, have you registered as a volunteer on the CGF website (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer)?

obeygiant
11-28-2010, 8:01 PM
BTW, how does one get on the conference call list?

Here is the answer i was given:


Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.

Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?

Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?

Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartass!

C.W.M.V.
11-28-2010, 8:41 PM
So what exactly about Sheriff Mims policy is "illegal"? Just curious since Fresno seems to be the envy of most of the rest of the state for CCW issue.

peterabbits
11-29-2010, 8:38 PM
You may have already done so but just in case you haven't, have you registered as a volunteer on the CGF website (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer)?

yes, of course.

brassballs
11-29-2010, 9:01 PM
As we speak i'm told its about a 6 month total time period from start to finish for your ccw.

but know the right people and its 1 month?

big county small group.

If you want to test the time frame i'll start my app. next monday and report on progress.

wildhawker
11-29-2010, 9:02 PM
So what exactly about Sheriff Mims policy is "illegal"? Just curious since Fresno seems to be the envy of most of the rest of the state for CCW issue.

Contrast the information/allowable policy in our carry license flowchart/guide (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/CGF_Civilian_CCW_Guide.pdf) with Fresno's policy (http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/Fresno.pdf).

wildhawker
11-29-2010, 9:03 PM
As we speak i'm told its about a 6 month total time period from start to finish for your ccw.

but know the right people and its 1 month?

big county small group.

If you want to test the time frame i'll start my app. next monday and report on progress.

Not quite yet, but soon... make sure you're signed up at www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer (and all your friends and family too!).

YtseJam
01-06-2011, 3:41 PM
Sorry to be coming in a little late to the conversation here, but I'm also ready to apply for my CCW. Better to wait?

Sebass
01-11-2011, 10:28 AM
Sorry to be coming in a little late to the conversation here, but I'm also ready to apply for my CCW. Better to wait?

I'd like to know as well :).

dwmmatt23
01-16-2011, 1:37 PM
I just signed up for this great site today, I'm a member at calccw. I called in for my appointment last month and am waiting till July to get in

wildhawker
01-16-2011, 1:44 PM
Sorry to be coming in a little late to the conversation here, but I'm also ready to apply for my CCW. Better to wait?

The answer is - it depends.

If you want a CCW, then get your appointment set ASAP and go apply.

If you want to help reform Fresno's unlawful policy, then standby.

C.W.M.V.
01-16-2011, 1:48 PM
I just signed up for this great site today, I'm a member at calccw. I called in for my appointment last month and am waiting till July to get in

I guess that's what happens when you have an under-budgeted department overwhelmed by requests for CCW's. Hell I know people who have moved here just to get the CCW.

Shawn1972
02-06-2011, 7:49 AM
If you live in the fresno city limits you can obtain you ccw through the fresno pd. I had my first appt 2 in days rather than 6 months through the sherrifs dept. Call Ed Torres in the fresno pd ccw dept @ 559-276-6056.

wildhawker
02-06-2011, 2:29 PM
If you live in the fresno city limits you can obtain you ccw through the fresno pd. I had my first appt 2 in days rather than 6 months through the sherrifs dept. Call Ed Torres in the fresno pd ccw dept @ 559-276-6056.

I'm not aware that FPD is issuing for self-defense. If they are, then it's a viable alternative. However, we strongly urge people to avoid PD's that do not issue for self-defense and apply directly to their sheriff.

YtseJam
02-08-2011, 7:57 PM
The answer is - it depends.

If you want a CCW, then get your appointment set ASAP and go apply.

If you want to help reform Fresno's unlawful policy, then standby.

Either way will be a wait....

lokee99
03-08-2011, 2:57 AM
Hey everyone! Im new as you can tell and I am currently overseas and on the way back from deployment. I intend on purchasesing a hand gun and would like to get a ccw. So any help with any of my process would be much appreciated. Even direction to the correct thread in the forum is welcome. Thanks.

Kid Stanislaus
03-08-2011, 7:36 AM
Hey everyone! Im new as you can tell and I am currently overseas and on the way back from deployment. I intend on purchasesing a hand gun and would like to get a ccw. So any help with any of my process would be much appreciated. Even direction to the correct thread in the forum is welcome. Thanks.

Where will you be living? We can give you more specific information if we know what county you'll be in.

exklusve
03-09-2011, 10:08 AM
Going to pick up my handgun in 10 days! After that I'll be waiting for the green light!

Thanks again Calguns! :D

greasemonkey
03-09-2011, 10:50 AM
Hey everyone! Im new as you can tell and I am currently overseas and on the way back from deployment. I intend on purchasesing a hand gun and would like to get a ccw. So any help with any of my process would be much appreciated. Even direction to the correct thread in the forum is welcome. Thanks.

Make sure you check the parent sub-forum of this thread, Calguns CCW Information (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=116) and read through the 'Sticky' threads at the top, especially make sure you see the (CGF Request - Volunteer...) thread and sign up on www.calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer so they can contact all the volunteers in your county when they're ready to move.

sk8804
05-14-2011, 7:33 PM
It is just a rough draft, but I need input on if it will be enough.

greasemonkey
05-14-2011, 9:31 PM
You don't need to write a groveling story, especially not for mims. Apply for lawfully concealing a firearm for defense of yourself and your family...and have fun with the LOOONG wait to get an interview, I'm getting reports of peoples' interviews in November/December that have applied recently. City PD has a substantially shorter time-frame if you're in the City Limits.

sk8804
05-14-2011, 9:43 PM
yeah thats what ive heard about mims. I think ill be ok. The wait is gonna suck soo bad

Meplat
05-29-2011, 3:57 PM
I just signed up for this great site today, I'm a member at calccw. I called in for my appointment last month and am waiting till July to get in

Gee. That sounds more like 3 months than six. You must be one of those who know somebody.:rolleyes:


It sounds to me like we may be in danger of destroying the good in pursuit of the perfect here. We work to elect a pro-gun sherif, we win, she starts issuing permits to ordinary folks with self defense as good cause, word gets around, the department is covered up with apps, and now we complain about processing time? Fresno as all Ca counties has a huge budget problem. As I write someone is deciding where to put FCSD resources. We are turning non-violent felons lose because the department does not have the money to provide space or supervision. So, do you take staff from the jail to process CCWs, do they pull detectives off murder cases to do background checks and interviews? I'll bet SF and LA counties have no backlog. We get one or two sheriffs that are trying to do the right thing and we attack them?

In the best of possible worlds no CCW would be needed. Open or concealed carry would be unrestricted. Maybe some day CalGuns will be able to bring that world into existence. I doubt it will be in my lifetime. In the mean time we need to understand who our friends are and if we can't pat them on the back, at least leave them the hell alone.

No Ca county is "shall issue" and they can't be under present law. But our sherif is doing the best she can to make Fresno as close as possible to that ideal.

That said; I have volunteered to do what I can to help, in the hope that CGF is way ahead of me and knows what it is doing. But I am going to need good reason to keep my heart in it.

Meplat
05-29-2011, 4:05 PM
You don't need to write a groveling story, especially not for mims. Apply for lawfully concealing a firearm for defense of yourself and your family...and have fun with the LOOONG wait to get an interview, I'm getting reports of peoples' interviews in November/December that have applied recently. City PD has a substantially shorter time-frame if you're in the City Limits.

Last I knew the PD was "the unconnected need not apply". I live in the city but was never able to even get them to take my app. I got it through Mims in less than two months. But that was early on, before the flood gates opened.

greasemonkey
05-30-2011, 12:27 AM
Last I knew the PD was "the unconnected need not apply". I live in the city but was never able to even get them to take my app. I got it through Mims in less than two months. But that was early on, before the flood gates opened.

This *may* just be speculation but I think City PD has realized the income potential of processing applications that they know Mims will approve anyway. They're far friendlier with issuing than they have been in the past, City PD's policy could use some work, too; but we may have an opportunity to "come alongside them" instead of let the dogs loose, so to speak.

Mims is great on her GC for issuance, it's the rest of the process in place that has some cleaning up, I'll just say they're adding extra steps for themselves that do nothing but needlessly slow the process down, which draws more resources. One thing that is disconcerting about SO is that appointments have been all over the board, people are getting wait times of 10 months, some 2 months, some of the late appointments are calling in and getting sooner appointments.

The District process you volunteered for is specifically set up to assist in a proactive, friendly approach instead of taking adverse action, because they have proven to be friendly.

wildhawker
05-30-2011, 1:28 AM
Gee. That sounds more like 3 months than six. You must be one of those who know somebody.:rolleyes:

It sounds to me like we may be in danger of destroying the good in pursuit of the perfect here. We work to elect a pro-gun sherif, we win, she starts issuing permits to ordinary folks with self defense as good cause, word gets around, the department is covered up with apps, and now we complain about processing time? Fresno as all Ca counties has a huge budget problem. As I write someone is deciding where to put FCSD resources. We are turning non-violent felons lose because the department does not have the money to provide space or supervision. So, do you take staff from the jail to process CCWs, do they pull detectives off murder cases to do background checks and interviews? I'll bet SF and LA counties have no backlog. We get one or two sheriffs that are trying to do the right thing and we attack them?

In the best of possible worlds no CCW would be needed. Open or concealed carry would be unrestricted. Maybe some day CalGuns will be able to bring that world into existence. I doubt it will be in my lifetime. In the mean time we need to understand who our friends are and if we can't pat them on the back, at least leave them the hell alone.

No Ca county is "shall issue" and they can't be under present law. But our sherif is doing the best she can to make Fresno as close as possible to that ideal.

That said; I have volunteered to do what I can to help, in the hope that CGF is way ahead of me and knows what it is doing. But I am going to need good reason to keep my heart in it.

1. I don't think you understand what Due Process means, especially in connection with enumerated fundamental rights.

2. Fresno's budget problems are not my problem. Their summary denial of rights to people waiting to [lawfully] exercise the right of self-defense [in the only manner available] is.

3. You don't understand mandates and the duties of the office of the Sheriff.

4. I'm not attacking friends. I'm attacking policies. It's unfortunate if they decide to stand with their [unconstitutional and unlawful] policies over the interests and rights of their residents.

5. I read your post as "please don't rock the boat, some of us like our positioning!"

Last I knew the PD was "the unconnected need not apply". I live in the city but was never able to even get them to take my app. I got it through Mims in less than two months. But that was early on, before the flood gates opened.

1. Fresno PD is actually accepting and processing fairly quickly.

2. Looks like you didn't have to endure the delays that current applicants are. Have you considered what your opinion would be if you had no permit and were staring down a ~year wait to even apply?

-Brandon

Kid Stanislaus
05-30-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm wondering, would it be lawful for the sheriff to declare "constitutional carry" in the county was allowed until they can catch up with their backlog? He'd/she'd have to get the cooperation of the city chiefs of police I'm sure.

greasemonkey
05-30-2011, 12:22 PM
I'm wondering, would it be lawful for the sheriff to declare "constitutional carry" in the county was allowed until they can catch up with their backlog? He'd/she'd have to get the cooperation of the city chiefs of police I'm sure.

I don't believe so because there are State laws to deal with, namely, GFSZ, that only a CCW permit would exempt you from being in violation of. If our Sheriff did want to get as close to Constitutional-carry as State Law would allow, the entire circus put on with the extreme delays on interviews and other such nonsense would be thrown aside, Good Cause would be Self Defense, Good Moral Character would be 'not prohibited', rubber stamp an application and be done with it.
Even with a 'friendly' Sheriff in Fresno, the permit process is still burdensome and unnecessary, there's still a web of politics and favoritism that's in addition to State Law.

wildhawker
05-30-2011, 2:41 PM
No Ca county is "shall issue" and they can't be under present law.

In re-reading my previous replies, I saw that I failed to address this squarely. Your assertion that licensing authorities cannot be "shall issue" under current law is absolutely untrue.

Any sheriff can *choose* - right now - to be "shall issue" in every way save for statutory prohibitions. The limits of their discretion are not such that would preclude them from adopting a policy of 1) accepting, 2) processing, and 3) approving - administratively, and with virtually zero internal work - all applications that were not rejected by DOJ.

NOTHING stops a licensing authority from being "shall issue" except their own choice *not* to be.

But our sherif is doing the best she can to make Fresno as close as possible to that ideal.

No, she's not, but she is better than most. I don't wish to take away from what she's doing right, but I have to call BS on the "she's doing the best she can" line of apology.

-Brandon

wildhawker
05-30-2011, 2:43 PM
I'm wondering, would it be lawful for the sheriff to declare "constitutional carry" in the county was allowed until they can catch up with their backlog? He'd/she'd have to get the cooperation of the city chiefs of police I'm sure.

No, neither the sheriff nor any other licensing authority may simply waive the penal code.

As greasemonkey correctly stated, if they don't want backlog, they should rubberstamp all applications that are not rejected by DOJ. It takes 5 minutes to process a CCW application unless they choose to add work.

Paul S
05-30-2011, 3:04 PM
I'm wondering, would it be lawful for the sheriff to declare "constitutional carry" in the county was allowed until they can catch up with their backlog? He'd/she'd have to get the cooperation of the city chiefs of police I'm sure.

Regardless of the legality of such an action even if it were to fly...wouldn't that limit you to authorized concealed carry in ONLY the county where such a situation prevailed? Seems to me it might.

wildhawker
05-30-2011, 3:10 PM
Regardless of the legality of such an action even if it were to fly...wouldn't that limit you to authorized concealed carry in ONLY the county where such a situation prevailed? Seems to me it might.

There is no legal possibility, so the rest is moot.

Paul S
05-30-2011, 3:17 PM
No, neither the sheriff nor any other licensing authority may simply waive the penal code.

As greasemonkey correctly stated, if they don't want backlog, they should rubberstamp all applications that are not rejected by DOJ. It takes 5 minutes to process a CCW application unless they choose to add work.

Here in Fresno County the current and the past sheriff required(s) a new handgun safety certificate every two years upon renewal of the CCW. Since an HSC is good for 5 years (I believe) I've always thought that was bogus...but what are you gonna do? I've had a CCW ever since Hal McKinney was sheriff (1975 - 1987) and I'm not about to let it lapse.

wildhawker
05-30-2011, 4:09 PM
Here in Fresno County the current and the past sheriff required(s) a new handgun safety certificate every two years upon renewal of the CCW. Since an HSC is good for 5 years (I believe) I've always thought that was bogus...but what are you gonna do? I've had a CCW ever since Hal McKinney was sheriff (1975 - 1987) and I'm not about to let it lapse.

The HSC requirement is an unlawful policy. We'll simply make that go away.

Meplat
05-30-2011, 10:08 PM
Paul:

I think you are confusing the four hours of training required by PC 12050 (a)(1)(E)(ii) for renewal with a HSC. Fresno has no requirement for a HSC for renewal, that's a completely different animal.

Here in Fresno County the current and the past sheriff required(s) a new handgun safety certificate every two years upon renewal of the CCW. Since an HSC is good for 5 years (I believe) I've always thought that was bogus...but what are you gonna do? I've had a CCW ever since Hal McKinney was sheriff (1975 - 1987) and I'm not about to let it lapse.

Meplat
05-30-2011, 11:36 PM
In an earlier post you sead of me:


3. You don't understand mandates and the duties of the office of the Sheriff.

-Brandon

PC 12050 mandates that the sheriff evaluate the character and cause of each individual applicant. That is current CA law, like it or not. Any sheriff who does not do this is neglecting their duty. A sheriff can no more declare that all applicants will be approved than they can declare no applicants will be approved. The sheriff must give all applications full, fair, and equal consideration. By the way, that last part is called Due Process. The sheriff must by law provide that process; consequently no CA County can be Shall Issue.

You may not like it, I certainly don't, but that's the way it is until we can change the law or get a SCOTUS decision finding it unconstitutional.




In re-reading my previous replies, I saw that I failed to address this squarely. Your assertion that licensing authorities cannot be "shall issue" under current law is absolutely untrue.

Any sheriff can *choose* - right now - to be "shall issue" in every way save for statutory prohibitions. The limits of their discretion are not such that would preclude them from adopting a policy of 1) accepting, 2) processing, and 3) approving - administratively, and with virtually zero internal work - all applications that were not rejected by DOJ.

NOTHING stops a licensing authority from being "shall issue" except their own choice *not* to be.



No, she's not, but she is better than most. I don't wish to take away from what she's doing right, but I have to call BS on the "she's doing the best she can" line of apology.

-Brandon

Mims believes in the RKBA. Under current law we do not and cannot have real constitutional carry. However, Mims is trying to advance as far as possible along a path toward that end, within the constraints of present law. This is new ground being ploughed here. Rocks, stumps, and quagmires have to be expected. We need to point them out and help to clear the way, unless we are just looking for a fight that can be perused all the way to SCOTUS. If that is the goal I can think of much more deserving targets.
Actually I think at least some of the problem with the FCSD procedure is that it is set up to make sure the applicant is not stuck with huge non-refundable fees and then denied.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained be stupidity. This applies in spades to government agencies.

Paul S
05-31-2011, 9:56 AM
Paul:

I think you are confusing the four hours of training required by PC 12050 (a)(1)(E)(ii) for renewal with a HSC. Fresno has no requirement for a HSC for renewal, that's a completely different animal.

Thanks for the correction and straightening me out on that one. I went back into my files and looked at the CCW folder and you are indeed correct.

Meplat
05-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Buy the way. In the gun shops I go to they will take a CCW in lu of a HSC, so you don't have to pay to take that silly "don't look down the barrel and pull the trigger" test.

Thanks for the correction and straightening me out on that one. I went back into my files and looked at the CCW folder and you are indeed correct.

wildhawker
05-31-2011, 1:26 PM
The sheriff evaluate the character and cause of each individual applicant. That is current CA law, like it or not. Any sheriff who does not do this is neglecting their duty. A sheriff can no more declare that all applicants will be approved than they can declare no applicants will be approved.

The law does not say that licensing authorities must have a standard of discretion that exceeds "self defense" and "non-prohibited", only that they *can*.

Their duties under 12050, et. seq., are:

* Accept and process all applications from those residing within the same jurisdiction. For sheriffs, accept applications for business purpose (90 day) licenses. For chiefs of police, either accept applications from city residents or enter into a "g" agreement with the sheriff to accept and process all applications from city residents.

* Take fingerprints and forward to DOJ.

* Collect DOJ background check fees from applicant.

* Evaluate the application for proof of "good cause" and "good moral character".

* Receive the DOJ PC 12052 background check prior to issuing any license.

* Ensure that all approved applicants complete required training containing, at minimum, those areas outlined in PC.

* Administer license renewals and amendments.

* Report all activity to DOJ and maintain data locally.

Your conclusion in re the duties of licensing authorities is incorrect. Their discretion and authority to issue licenses has a floor duty of "accept all appropriate applications" and a ceiling of "cannot issue to prohibited persons".

The sheriff must give all applications full, fair, and equal consideration. By the way, that last part is called Due Process.

That last part's equal protection.

The sheriff must by law provide that process; consequently no CA County can be Shall Issue.

The process is compelled by statute; arbitrary and capricious application of any policy may very well violate EP14A, but there's no constitutional or statutory bar to being "shall issue [to non-prohibited persons]".

Consider: a sheriff tells non-prohibited person Applicant A, aged 21, that their application is approved based on a showing of "self-defense" as good cause and their DOJ background check showing A as eligible to possess firearms as proof of their "good moral character". Such would be a lawful exercise of discretion.

Applicant B is a similarly-situated adult with identical facts. How *must* the sheriff exercise their discretion in the case of B?

You may not like it, I certainly don't, but that's the way it is until we can change the law or get a SCOTUS decision finding it unconstitutional.

That's not the way it is.

You're conflating a permit-based "shall-issue" system under 2A/14A with a system that simply reflects the instructions of statute/14A (including the statutory discretion to issue to any non-prohibited person for any "good cause" acceptable to the licensing authority).

-Brandon

wildhawker
05-31-2011, 1:28 PM
Buy the way. In the gun shops I go to they will take a CCW in lu of a HSC, so you don't have to pay to take that silly "don't look down the barrel and pull the trigger" test.

FYI, all gun shops can exempt CCW holders:

6. What are the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) requirement exemption codes? (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs.php#c6)

X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member

Meplat
05-31-2011, 2:35 PM
FYI, all gun shops can exempt CCW holders:

In light of all the FUD that issues forth from behind the counters I did not want to be too expansive. I'm sure there is some jerk out there that will want you to take the silly thing anyway.

Meplat
05-31-2011, 2:56 PM
The law does not say that licensing authorities must have a standard of discretion that exceeds "self defense" and "non-prohibited", only that they *can*.

-Brandon

Again: The sheriff is mandated by law to evaluate the character and cause of each individual applicant.

A decision will be made. That is not shall issue. A sherif can make his county virtually shall issue, but not literally shall issue. No matter how wide his parameters a decision still must be made. Just because the law says he may issue does not mean it says he must issue. The latter circumstance is what we are striving for.

wildhawker
05-31-2011, 3:14 PM
You do realize that we actually file cases on these issues, right? I'm not sure if you're using semantics as a tool or if you think that it helps you make your argument. Also, I see that you didn't answer my hypothetical. Why is that?

Meplat
05-31-2011, 7:26 PM
You do realize that we actually file cases on these issues, right?

Of course I do. But I also know that I have seen some of our respected legal minds here make exactly the same point that I am making;

I'm not sure if you're using semantics as a tool or if you think that it helps you make your argument. Also, I see that you didn't answer my hypothetical. Why is that?

Hypothetical? I'll go back and see if I can figure out what you are talking about?

Meplat
05-31-2011, 7:44 PM
You do realize that we actually file cases on these issues, right? I'm not sure if you're using semantics as a tool or if you think that it helps you make your argument. Also, I see that you didn't answer my hypothetical. Why is that?

Is this your 'hypothetical"?

Consider: a sheriff tells non-prohibited person Applicant A, aged 21, that their application is approved based on a showing of "self-defense" as good cause and their DOJ background check showing A as eligible to possess firearms as proof of their "good moral character". Such would be a lawful exercise of discretion.

Applicant B is a similarly-situated adult with identical facts. How *must* the sheriff exercise their discretion in the case of B?

If so, I assume you are saying both must be treated the same. I have no problem with this. Except possibly that "identical facts" would be very hard to come by in the real world, so let's just say very similar facts. This indeed is an equal protection question but it also goes to due process, because without the process the degree of similarity of circumstances can not be decerned.

wildhawker
05-31-2011, 11:53 PM
Is this your 'hypothetical"?

If so, I assume you are saying both must be treated the same. I have no problem with this. Except possibly that "identical facts" would be very hard to come by in the real world, so let's just say very similar facts. This indeed is an equal protection question but it also goes to due process, because without the process the degree of similarity of circumstances can not be decerned.

So you do agree that a sheriff's discretion must be applied equally to similarly-situated applicants? If so, then consider how Sheriff Mims has exercised her discretion there in Fresno -- and what that means for applicants subsequent to the application of such discretion.

There's 3 different [core] issues to address in the overarching Initiative:

* Respect for Fed. constitutional right to bear under 2A/14A (shall-issue)
** After we have an expressly-acknowledged liberty interest in 2A/14A bear, we can invoke due process
* Violations of State and Fed. equal protection provisions
* Compliance with state statutes and relevant case law

Meplat
06-01-2011, 5:36 PM
So you do agree that a sheriff's discretion must be applied equally to similarly-situated applicants?
Yes; however similar circumstances must be to be considered the same is a question that has to be decided by the courts. I am sure there must be tons of precedent out there on the question, but even with the guidance of precedent it is a question on which reasonable men (and jurists) may differ. I probably should have stopped at ‘yes’ as I think we are pretty much in agreement here.
If so, then consider how Sheriff Mims has exercised her discretion there in Fresno -- and what that means for applicants subsequent to the application of such discretion.
I have no personal knowledge or evidence that Mims has slighted or favored anyone. All I have is innuendo about interview scheduling irregularities that have a funny smell to them. And complaints about long waits.
I understand that there is a time to lay down your cards and a time to hold them close to your vest. That is why in my original post in this thread I stated that I had volunteered and was on board and I hoped and trusted that the leadership knew what they were about. I will continue to be on board and take leaderships’ word for things as long as the mission is one of advice, assistance, and petitioning for redress. However, before I can support litigation I will need convincing evidence that Mims or her subordinates have, with malice, and or deliberate intent, subverted due process and or equal protection. Or, if it is simply a case of needing a precedent setting case, why a much less friendly and much more deserving county cannot be used.

There's 3 different [core] issues to address in the overarching Initiative:

* Respect for Fed. constitutional right to bear under 2A/14A (shall-issue)
Fresno is as close to this as you will find in CA.
** After we have an expressly-acknowledged liberty interest in 2A/14A bear, we can invoke due process
Great! Let’s go for it!
* Violations of State and Fed. equal protection provisions

That’s interesting in light of the fact that you posted in another thread, about SB-610:
Moress, that's a foolish way to approach liberty. We can fix stupid equal protection issues easier than we can fix death by a thousand regulatory cuts.
Fresno has none of the problems SB-610 seeks to address. The fees are kept as small as possible and none are required until after approval of the good cause statement. That is one big reason why the Fresno policy statement does not match the CG CCW flowchart.
* Compliance with state statutes and relevant case law
But let’s give the carrot a real good try before we get to heavy handed with the stick.

wildhawker
06-01-2011, 11:42 PM
Yes; however similar circumstances must be to be considered the same is a question that has to be decided by the courts. I am sure there must be tons of precedent out there on the question, but even with the guidance of precedent it is a question on which reasonable men (and jurists) may differ. I probably should have stopped at ‘yes’ as I think we are pretty much in agreement here.

I agree that we are either entirely or very close to entirely in agreement the licensing authorities are bound to longstanding equal protection precedent.

I have no personal knowledge or evidence that Mims has slighted or favored anyone.

She, vis-a-vis her department, has, and I *do* have proof.

All I have is innuendo about interview scheduling irregularities that have a funny smell to them. And complaints about long waits.

The complaints in re long waits are legitimate. The licensing authorities have a duty to accept and process applications. They asked for the job, they get to do it.

I understand that there is a time to lay down your cards and a time to hold them close to your vest. That is why in my original post in this thread I stated that I had volunteered and was on board and I hoped and trusted that the leadership knew what they were about. I will continue to be on board and take leaderships’ word for things as long as the mission is one of advice, assistance, and petitioning for redress.

Trust that we have been, and continue, to *ask*. You would almost certainly know if we were moving to sue Fresno.

However, before I can support litigation I will need convincing evidence that Mims or her subordinates have, with malice, and or deliberate intent, subverted due process and or equal protection. Or, if it is simply a case of needing a precedent setting case, why a much less friendly and much more deserving county cannot be used.

Because strategic litigation doesn't always work that way. You seem to see litigation as personal. We see litigation as a means to an end, though not the preferred means. We *always* ask - at least once - before we take legal action.

Fresno is as close to this as you will find in CA.

Well, Fresno is closer to"good" than, say, Contra Costa or San Francisco, but real respect for 2A means having a lawful policy, fast processing times, reasonable fees, accepting simple self-defense as good cause, no moral character hoops except being verifiably not-prohibited...

That’s interesting in light of the fact that you posted in another thread, about SB-610

I am at a loss as to what point you're trying to make here.

Fresno has none of the problems SB-610 seeks to address. The fees are kept as small as possible and none are required until after approval of the good cause statement. That is one big reason why the Fresno policy statement does not match the CG CCW flowchart.

Again - not saying the law as-written is my preference, but you contradict yourself here. SB 610 *reiterates* existing law to make it clear that the state means what it said in AB 2022, and adds a statutory duty to explain denials. Fresno's policy does not match the process compelled by statute. Simple as that.

But let’s give the carrot a real good try before we get to heavy handed with the stick.

As I said before, we have and continue to ask licensing authorities for their cooperation. We've offered to - at our expense - provide lawyer time with their staff to revise those policies and practices which are problematic or unlawful. I have personally met with counties counsel, supervisors, sheriffs (not deputies, but *the* sheriffs), and others at my own expense, travelling thousands of road miles to meet and have pleasant discussion with those we seek to assist.

We would rather not need to sue anyone. However, the sheriffs have almost universally chosen to litigate and fight over their little power centers of CCW issuance. One day I'll be able to tell you how I know that.

What folks have access to here and elsewhere online is about 5% of what is actually going on. Unfortunately, that may give some the impression that we're simply going around with a stick when, in fact, we've been trying to hand out carrots for over a year now.

-Brandon

exklusve
06-03-2011, 8:20 AM
What folks have access to here and elsewhere online is about 5% of what is actually going on. Unfortunately, that may give some the impression that we're simply going around with a stick when, in fact, we've been trying to hand out carrots for over a year now.
-Brandon



This is why I always get a good chuckle when folks try to double guess and correct the guys in charge here.


Thanks again Brandon for your time and efforts you (and everyone else involved in this) spend helping out the rest of us!
:D

Meplat
06-05-2011, 4:24 PM
This is why I always get a good chuckle when folks try to double guess and correct the guys in charge here.


Thanks again Brandon for your time and efforts you (and everyone else involved in this) spend helping out the rest of us!
:D

I am not trying to second guess or correct anyone. I have the greatest respect for the leadership here; none more so than Brandon. If I did not I would not donate my time and money. The fact remains one is ultimately responsible for one’s own actions. "Trust me"; only goes so far. If things I would like to know are not yet ready to be aired publicly I can live with that. How have you supported the cause lately?

Meplat
06-05-2011, 6:46 PM
She, vis-a-vis her department, has, and I *do* have proof.

I would actually be surprized if someone (or three) somewhere has not bumped his buddy to the top of the stack. That is well and truely an 'equal protection' problem. But I really dobt it is the main problem causing the delays.

Because strategic litigation doesn't always work that way. You seem to see litigation as personal. We see litigation as a means to an end, though not the preferred means. We *always* ask - at least once - before we take legal action.

First, I imagin I do see this a little more personally, as it will effect my home, my taxes, and my local government services. And I will probably be paying for lawyers on both sides!:eek: Also, there are many local people who worked hard to get Mims elected mainly due to her pro 2A covictions. We made a real solid chage for the better here, not perfict, but remarkably better.

As far as being a means to an end, let me try this to show you where I am comming from.

Your end is to make the world safer for women:

1. Tom rapes and murders a woman.

2. Dick murders a woman.

4. Harry rapes a woman.

4. Rudy beats the crap out of a woman and steals her purse.

5. Lamont runs by a woman and snaches her purse.

You come along and say; "Mike, get your roap, we are going to go string up that rat bastard Lamont!"

I'm just sayin?

At some point I will need to understand why it is important to go after Lamont first or you ain't gitting my roap. Now I might help ya slap lamont around a little bit to show him the err of his ways?

Well, Fresno is closer to"good" than, say, Contra Costa or San Francisco, but real respect for 2A means having a lawful policy, fast processing times, reasonable fees, accepting simple self-defense as good cause, no moral character hoops except being verifiably not-prohibited...

I agree that is our goal.



I am at a loss as to what point you're trying to make here.

Just that in regards Fresno equal protection is all important, but regards SB-610 you are ready to throw EP under the buss to eliminate buroughcratic dirty tricks that Fresno has already eliminated.


As I said before, we have and continue to ask licensing authorities for their cooperation. We've offered to - at our expense - provide lawyer time with their staff to revise those policies and practices which are problematic or unlawful. I have personally met with counties counsel, supervisors, sheriffs (not deputies, but *the* sheriffs), and others at my own expense, travelling thousands of road miles to meet and have pleasant discussion with those we seek to assist.Again - not saying the law as-written is my preference, but you contradict yourself here. SB 610 *reiterates* existing law to make it clear that the state means what it said in AB 2022, and adds a statutory duty to explain denials. Fresno's policy does not match the process compelled by statute. Simple as that.


You are to be commended for your dedication and contribution, I have never questioned that, nor have I aluded that you or any other of our leadership do not know what they are doing. May I ask if this has included Fresno?


We would rather not need to sue anyone. However, the sheriffs have almost universally chosen to litigate and fight over their little power centers of CCW issuance. One day I'll be able to tell you how I know that.

What folks have access to here and elsewhere online is about 5% of what is actually going on. Unfortunately, that may give some the impression that we're simply going around with a stick when, in fact, we've been trying to hand out carrots for over a year now.

-Brandon

Perhaps bravado filled, caustic, confrontational, threatening rhetoric should be held until the backup information can be released at the same time?

Mike

wildhawker
06-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Meplat,

A few notes:

1. I was, in a number of posts, a bit short with you and I apologize for that.

2. SB610 no longer has any of the "legislator good cause" language. However, should it have remained a part of the bill, it's still a good bill because: a) the cleanup text significantly helps *all* applicants, and b) the exemptions *create* EP challenges/opportunities.

3. Lamont doesn't have the money to hire a top-tier law firm for the long haul, has little internal resources, and is located in a jurisdiction that is favorable to me. The appellate district in which Lamont resides moves fairly quickly. And, maybe, Lamont sort of agrees with me.

Conversely, Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy are rather wealthy. They have significant internal resources and tons of pro-bono time available to them. Their jurisdictions are unfavorable to me, and their courts of appeal can be somewhat painful. These guys cannot see the error of their ways, *at all*. Zero remorse.

Winning a case in a CA state court of appeals is binding on the entire state, including the jurisdictions of Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy.

My job is to secure a victory for (over) all of California. I don't [always] need to take on Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy to beat Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy.

4. Fresno has been reached out to, and we'll continue to try and work through the issues we see. Unless something changes, Fresno is not our Lamont.

5. There's no rhetoric - I cite the law and identify those who do not follow it. There's plenty of proof that violations exist. It's a binary analysis; either they are in compliance, or they are not. If not, then we want them to fix it.

I would be very pleased if you could help us there in Fresno by contacting the licensing authorities and suggesting their adoption of our model policy. You, too, (as well as all other residents) can offer carrots. We continue to seek out opportunities to work directly with the agencies to assist them in remedying their issues. I think grassroots support can go a long way to brokering such an outcome.

-Brandon

Meplat
06-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Meplat,

A few notes:

1. I was, in a number of posts, a bit short with you and I apologize for that.

You would not be the valuable asset to the cause that you are without passion, and I enjoy a spirited discussion. I can be irritating at times; I hope you’ll forgive that.

2. SB610 no longer has any of the "legislator good cause" language. However, should it have remained a part of the bill, it's still a good bill because: a) the cleanup text significantly helps *all* applicants, and b) the exemptions *create* EP challenges/opportunities.

3. Lamont doesn't have the money to hire a top-tier law firm for the long haul, has little internal resources, and is located in a jurisdiction that is favorable to me. The appellate district in which Lamont resides moves fairly quickly. And, maybe, Lamont sort of agrees with me.

Conversely, Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy are rather wealthy. They have significant internal resources and tons of pro-bono time available to them. Their jurisdictions are unfavorable to me, and their courts of appeal can be somewhat painful. These guys cannot see the error of their ways, *at all*. Zero remorse.

Winning a case in a CA state court of appeals is binding on the entire state, including the jurisdictions of Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy.

My job is to secure a victory for (over) all of California. I don't [always] need to take on Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy to beat Tom, Dick, Harry, and Rudy.

4. Fresno has been reached out to, and we'll continue to try and work through the issues we see. Unless something changes, Fresno is not our Lamont.
Now that was very well related, in terms even I can understand.


5. There's no rhetoric - I cite the law and identify those who do not follow it. There's plenty of proof that violations exist. It's a binary analysis; either they are in compliance, or they are not. If not, then we want them to fix it.
A rose has a sweet aroma, a beautiful continence, and thorns. So can it be with truth.

I would be very pleased if you could help us there in Fresno by contacting the licensing authorities and suggesting their adoption of our model policy. You, too, (as well as all other residents) can offer carrots. We continue to seek out opportunities to work directly with the agencies to assist them in remedying their issues. I think grassroots support can go a long way to brokering such an outcome.

-Brandon

I am at the disposal of the cause. I need to better educate myself on the points of disagreement so as to be an effective and coherent advocate.

Mike

wildhawker
06-06-2011, 10:36 PM
I am at the disposal of the cause. I need to better educate myself on the points of disagreement so as to be an effective and coherent advocate.

Mike

I look forward to meeting you for coffee sometime, then, as I find myself in the Fresno area much of the time these days. :)

-Brandon

exklusve
06-07-2011, 7:08 AM
I would be very pleased if you could help us there in Fresno by contacting the licensing authorities and suggesting their adoption of our model policy. You, too, (as well as all other residents) can offer carrots. We continue to seek out opportunities to work directly with the agencies to assist them in remedying their issues. I think grassroots support can go a long way to brokering such an outcome.

-Brandon

Brandon,
In suggesting to the licensing authorities about adoption the calguns model policy, what would be the recommended way to do this? I got my CCW packet from the sheriffs office a few weeks ago and am waiting for the green light in this forum.

Meplat
06-07-2011, 8:54 AM
I look forward to meeting you for coffee sometime, then, as I find myself in the Fresno area much of the time these days. :)

-Brandon

I look forward to it.

Mike

wildhawker
06-07-2011, 11:41 AM
Brandon,
In suggesting to the licensing authorities about adoption the calguns model policy, what would be the recommended way to do this? I got my CCW packet from the sheriffs office a few weeks ago and am waiting for the green light in this forum.

I'd suggest either hand-delivery under a cover letter explaining what the policy is and why you think they should adopt it, or by regular mail (with a similar cover letter).

Meplat
06-11-2011, 3:11 PM
Brandon:

Am I correct in assuming that, at present, the main problems with Fresno CSD are noncompliance with the 90 day after application, or 30 day after DOJ report requirement, and stonewalling on the PRA request? Please advise if that assumption is correct. I would like to put the emphasis of my communication with FCSD where it will do the most good.

Mike

Blackhawk556
11-01-2011, 9:18 PM
does anyone know what type of proof I need to show I live in Fresno County? I have no bills or anything showing I moved here.
Am I SOL?

wildhawker
11-01-2011, 9:58 PM
does anyone know what type of proof I need to show I live in Fresno County? I have no bills or anything showing I moved here.
Am I SOL?

No; submit your application and email me if you have a problem.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/Fresno.pdf

-Brandon

Blackhawk556
11-01-2011, 11:24 PM
either I missed it or it wasnt included in that packet. I didn't see anything about what fulfills the residency requirements.

wildhawker
11-02-2011, 1:56 AM
either I missed it or it wasnt included in that packet. I didn't see anything about what fulfills the residency requirements.

That is, indeed, the very point. Your application is certified by you and submitted under penalty of perjury; it does have a place for your residence address, does it not?

-Brandon

Blackhawk556
11-15-2011, 7:05 PM
That is, indeed, the very point. Your application is certified by you and submitted under penalty of perjury; it does have a place for your residence address, does it not?

-Brandon

Yes it does. I was wondering if they would ask for apartment lease or something like as proof. Ill be submitting application very soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

Sebass
01-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Just thought I'd let everyone know, as of today the current backlog for initial appointment's is December 2012 :eek:. If anyone has to cancel for whatever reason please PM or post up here :D.

greasemonkey
01-17-2012, 1:01 PM
If you were dating a deputy you could get an appointment tomorrow; if you were "in" with the right local businesses, you could get an appointment in a week or so. It's a fabricated backlog, want to apply in a couple weeks in accordance with CA law?

gonzales
01-17-2012, 1:58 PM
If you were dating a deputy you could get an appointment tomorrow; if you were "in" with the right local businesses, you could get an appointment in a week or so. It's a fabricated backlog, want to apply in a couple weeks in accordance with CA law?

Would knowing several deputies also help. They are family friends and would only want to ask them if it will help me out. I just called today and they are sending me an e-mail with the packet but said they are backed up till December 2012!

Blackhawk556
01-20-2012, 10:37 AM
anyone know of a CCW class that is approved by PD? "the range" is approved but their schedule doesn't fit mine.

Sebass
01-20-2012, 12:46 PM
Try Matt P. on here, or PM me and I might know a guy ;).

adodd
02-09-2012, 8:53 PM
What are the people's thought on restrictions placed on Fresno county permits? I assume this has been brought up with the sheriff's dept.?

Sebass
02-09-2012, 8:59 PM
What 'restrictions' do you speak of?

adodd
02-09-2012, 9:14 PM
"carrying of weapon is not authorized in any Courthouse, school grounds, commercial airport facility..." those are the main ones. Not that a judge would allow carry in his/her courtroom I believe it's legal to ccw in state and local courts. And Mainly the school grounds restriction.

gonzales
02-20-2012, 7:23 PM
"carrying of weapon is not authorized in any Courthouse, school grounds, commercial airport facility..." those are the main ones. Not that a judge would allow carry in his/her courtroom I believe it's legal to ccw in state and local courts. And Mainly the school grounds restriction.

Why would you want to carry in any of those locations anyways? I think those restrictions make sense.

Lives_In_Fresno
02-20-2012, 7:28 PM
Why would you want to carry in any of those locations anyways? I think those restrictions make sense.

They do make sense, if you couple reasoning with the law...consider, however, that a normally law-abiding citizen could get jacked up for picking his kid up at school in the parking lot (if the restriction is indeed "school grounds"...I think it is actually "school grounds unless you are in your car picking up your kid")

Same with the airport...

I believe the airport restriction is "sterile portions of airports", which really means behind the metal detectors, which is perfectly fine with me. Typically, I would think/hope that people going to airports should leave the sidearm at home.

greasemonkey
02-20-2012, 7:38 PM
No, they don't make sense, why should you not be allowed to? The law is already clear on not carrying in the 'secure' or sterile parts of an airport, the restriction as written could prohibit me from carrying while I drop someone off/pick someone up at the airport. Why should I have to lock up my lawfully concealed firearm if I'm picking my kid up at school? Those restrictions do not make sense.
Why would you want to carry in any of those locations anyways? I think those restrictions make sense.

They do make sense, if you couple reasoning with the law...consider, however, that a normally law-abiding citizen could get jacked up for picking his kid up at school in the parking lot (if the restriction is indeed "school grounds"...I think it is actually "school grounds unless you are in your car picking up your kid")

Same with the airport...

I believe the airport restriction is "sterile portions of airports", which really means behind the metal detectors, which is perfectly fine with me. Typically, I would think/hope that people going to airports should leave the sidearm at home.

wildhawker
02-20-2012, 7:39 PM
Why would you want to carry in any of those locations anyways? I think those restrictions make sense.

This is a classic case of I'm An NRA Member, But... Syndrome. I suspect it's probably accompanied by Battered Gun Owner Syndrome.

Sad. Really, really sad.

-Brandon

greasemonkey
02-20-2012, 9:43 PM
"Hey, I'm all for the 2nd Amendment but..."

If I had a penny for every time I've heard that before an attempt to rationalize a time/place restriction on carrying...

FlawlessAngel
01-29-2013, 11:37 PM
http://calgunsfoundation.org/resources/ccw-initiative/98-fresno.html

Makes the link easier for me to find later=)

rdhjr1973
04-22-2013, 12:11 PM
Making my appointment today!

rdhjr1973
05-04-2013, 8:46 PM
Met with Ray with Fresno PD last week. Waiting for the Chief to sign off in a few weeks and then move to the next step. Wish me luck!

rdhjr1973
05-04-2013, 8:46 PM
BTW, Fresno County is a 6 to 7 month wait for 1st app. Fresno PD 1 to 5 days.

Theboxman
05-05-2013, 1:19 PM
Met with Ray with Fresno PD last week. Waiting for the Chief to sign off in a few weeks and then move to the next step. Wish me luck!

Good luck.. Here is my timeline for reference.


Email to Ray 1-4
First meeting 1-5
Letter received for first ok 1-28
Second meeting and paperwork, also fingerprinting 1-31
CCW class finished 2-18
Springfield XDS arrives 3-8
5 References received letter from Ray 3-19
FPD inquires with my neighbors 4-30
Call to Ray said everything is good and I should get it this week 5-6

ArmyofMike
05-15-2013, 9:07 PM
OPs original link is broken. Here is the Fresno County Sheriff CCW site:
http://www.fresnosheriff.org/community/concealed-weapons-permits.html

The site says that once you have your initial interview, the SO will give you info on the list of CCW class instructors.

Good luck!

Blackhawk556
05-21-2013, 12:23 AM
Wow so they really do inquire with our neighbors. Does anyone else have more info on this? Also, how many months in advance do we have to start our renewal process? My two years is up early next year.

Blackhawk556
05-21-2013, 12:24 AM
Is Ed Torres not handling ccws for Fresno PD anymore??

Theboxman
05-23-2013, 12:20 AM
Is Ed Torres not handling ccws for Fresno PD anymore??

He is, and Ray Sandoval as well.

flipsyde
05-29-2013, 10:37 AM
Good luck.. Here is my timeline for reference.


Email to Ray 1-4
First meeting 1-5
Letter received for first ok 1-28
Second meeting and paperwork, also fingerprinting 1-31
CCW class finished 2-18
Springfield XDS arrives 3-8
5 References received letter from Ray 3-19
FPD inquires with my neighbors 4-30
Call to Ray said everything is good and I should get it this week 5-6


Any update on your timeline. Did you finally get your permit? I'm just wondering because I started my application about 2 weeks after you.

Theboxman
05-29-2013, 10:48 AM
Yes I picked up my Permit on May 8th

flipsyde
05-29-2013, 11:03 AM
Yes I picked up my Permit on May 8th

Awesome! Hopefully I get mine soon.

So basically, I'm just waiting for a letter correct? Then go in and pick up my permit. My live scan, ccw course, and previous requirements are all done.

Theboxman
05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
Correct, when letter comes in call Ed or Ray to set up a meeting to go pick it up, takes about 30 minutes as he talks about the do's and dont's

flipsyde
05-29-2013, 11:17 AM
Correct, when letter comes in call Ed or Ray to set up a meeting to go pick it up, takes about 30 minutes as he talks about the do's and dont's

Thanks! Ill be checking my mail everyday for it.

NationsMostWanted
06-16-2013, 8:46 AM
How's the process work now? Do they approve as long as you meet requirements or do you still need a reason to give?

Theboxman
06-17-2013, 2:12 PM
You still need a reason.

NationsMostWanted
06-19-2013, 5:34 PM
You still need a reason.

reference letters and talking to neighbors?

Theboxman
06-19-2013, 10:27 PM
Yes they do that as well, I'm stating you need a reason for obtaining a CCW. You're a business owner, carry large amounts of money, etc.

raws
07-08-2013, 11:09 PM
Yes they do that as well, I'm stating you need a reason for obtaining a CCW. You're a business owner, carry large amounts of money, etc.

Are these requirements true for going through both Fresno PD and the Sheriff's Office? I'll be moving to Fresno soon and would like to get my CCW and am wondering which department is more likely to issue. To be honest I really wouldn't feel comfortable with my future neighbors knowing that I carry if they don't need to.

Blackhawk556
07-12-2013, 1:12 AM
Are these requirements true for going through both Fresno PD and the Sheriff's Office? I'll be moving to Fresno soon and would like to get my CCW and am wondering which department is more likely to issue. To be honest I really wouldn't feel comfortable with my future neighbors knowing that I carry if they don't need to.






I went through PD and it took four months from start to finish. This was at the beginning if last year though. Honestly, I think PD will issue you one as long as you expand on "self defense" and pass the background check. I'm a regular dude with no money to carry or business to run and I was issued one. I'm also extremely law abiding ;)








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NationsMostWanted
07-13-2013, 7:08 PM
Is there a list showing what background charges will eliminate u? I do have a non violent vehicle related police misdemeanor like 10 years ago

NationsMostWanted
07-13-2013, 7:10 PM
Are these requirements true for going through both Fresno PD and the Sheriff's Office? I'll be moving to Fresno soon and would like to get my CCW and am wondering which department is more likely to issue. To be honest I really wouldn't feel comfortable with my future neighbors knowing that I carry if they don't need to.

That kinda sucks. I wouldn't want my neighbors knowing either. Is fresno pd and sheriff do the same visiting neighbors?

thayne
12-11-2013, 2:21 PM
FYI. Wait time for interview with Sheriffs office is down to 2 months now.

YtseJam
12-11-2013, 2:24 PM
I've decided to go with PD...friend of mine just went through it, still less waiting time.

thayne
12-11-2013, 2:37 PM
I've decided to go with PD...friend of mine just went through it, still less waiting time.

I dont like that FPD contacts your neighbors. I dont want my neighbors to even know I have guns let alone want to carry one.

YtseJam
12-11-2013, 2:50 PM
My neighbors already know....guess it depends on your relationship with the neighbors.

Lives_In_Fresno
12-17-2013, 6:43 AM
Renewing through Fresno PD was fairly quick...Two weeks, and $77 total cost to them (not including requalifying with the handguns). And part of the two weeks was my delay.

NationsMostWanted
01-04-2014, 9:23 PM
I dont like that FPD contacts your neighbors. I dont want my neighbors to even know I have guns let alone want to carry one.

So everyone who has been through Fpd has gotten neighbor visits?

YtseJam
01-04-2014, 9:32 PM
No...my neighbor just got his, they only came to my door because he used me for a reference. We know everybody around us, no one else was contacted. I just turned in my app last Monday, was told that they are back up to full strength in background investigators, they're looking at around 4 months.

NationsMostWanted
01-04-2014, 9:43 PM
I need stop being lazy and turn my application to sherrifs. But I am worried my actions as a minor and when I first turned 18 will affect my 15 years being a good citizen now

Colt-45
01-14-2014, 11:09 PM
FYI. Wait time for interview with Sheriffs office is down to 2 months now.

Wish I would have checked this thread sooner!:eek:

peopleofthesun
01-21-2014, 10:06 PM
What is the current total time for permit now? County and city

NationsMostWanted
01-25-2014, 10:04 PM
With recent crime I think it is time to file mine. Is there a thread that gives the step on applying. Example are classes done before seeing them or after?

Paramedic559
01-28-2014, 9:06 AM
I'm in fresno county & I didn't have to put any references, nor did my neighbors get any visits. It took me about 7 months to schedule my first appointment.

thayne
02-22-2014, 2:20 PM
I had to wait 2 months for my initial appointment. Which was last Friday 2/14/14 and I got my approval letter from the Sheriff today 2/22/14. Going to take the class next week. Then I need to make an appointment to go in for the test, finger prints, etc.

thayne
02-22-2014, 2:22 PM
With recent crime I think it is time to file mine. Is there a thread that gives the step on applying. Example are classes done before seeing them or after?

you can do it before, but if you are denied your'e out the cost of the class. They say to wait until you are approved.

You can contact the Sheriffs office for an application, or download it from their site. Call to set up an appointment and they will guide you through the whole process. Its not hard, just takes a long time. My Initial interview was only about 10 minutes. The questions they ask are pretty basic.

NationsMostWanted
02-25-2014, 10:55 PM
you can do it before, but if you are denied your'e out the cost of the class. They say to wait until you are approved.

You can contact the Sheriffs office for an application, or download it from their site. Call to set up an appointment and they will guide you through the whole process. Its not hard, just takes a long time. My Initial interview was only about 10 minutes. The questions they ask are pretty basic.

So send paperwork in and wait for interview? How many interviews did you have to do before approval?

dos anyone know according to fresno website certain criminal records disqualify a person from getting one, but if a person is legally allow to purchase and own a gun does that mean they are ok?

FresnoRob
03-07-2014, 4:27 PM
So send paperwork in and wait for interview? How many interviews did you have to do before approval?

dos anyone know according to fresno website certain criminal records disqualify a person from getting one, but if a person is legally allow to purchase and own a gun does that mean they are ok?

Fresno Sheriff Office does not want you to send in the paper work. Fill it all out except don't sign and date it bring it with you to the first interview.
I called yesterday, got a voicemail left message. They called me back this morning. My first interview is May 19th.

I don't know if Fresno PD is different or the answer about disqualification. Sorry

YtseJam
03-09-2014, 10:27 AM
With PD, you download the form and fill it out...then call for an appointment to drop it off. I literally called on a Wednesday and went in on Thursday. They will review your app and if they give the thumbs up, it goes to Dyer. Once approved, you will receive a notice in the mail telling you to make another appointment to drop off your references and pay the process fee. I was able to get in the following day as well. You will also get a form to take with you for your Live Scan. You make an appointment for that, pay that fee and start making arrangements for your certification. Then you wait for the DOJ and the PD background check. The process up to this point took a little over 2 months...

Blackhawk556
03-12-2014, 7:56 PM
My renewal date is coming up very soon. Two year flew by so freaking quick!!!!
I talked to Ed Torres a week or two ago and he said it's going to cost me $25 for City of Fresno and $50 for DOJ. Is this what over cities/counties charge for renewals?

ES13Raven
03-14-2014, 10:32 AM
I talked to Ed Torres a week or two ago and he said it's going to cost me $25 for City of Fresno and $50 for DOJ. Is this what over cities/counties charge for renewals?
The Sheriff's website says:

"Take the CCW 4-hour renewal course ... and pay your renewal fee ($77.00)."

FresnoRob
05-24-2014, 1:54 PM
Got my approval letter today. :)
That was fast ( 5 ) days from first interview to letter received. Now have to wait until Tuesday to call for written test and fingerprinting. ( took two months for first interview )
My Timeline:
3/6/2014 Filled out Application and Called for Appointment
3/7/2014 They called me back, Appointment May 19th 9:30 AM
5/19/2014 First Appointment (took about 15 minutes)
5/24/2014 Received approval letter
5/27/2014 Called for Written test and fingerprints
6/13/2014 25 question true and false Test, Fingerprints and paid $208 fee ( Cash or MO, no checks) Told would take 8 weeks for the permit to arrive.
7/3/2014 Got permit in mail. Both paper and plastic card. Post dated until 8/13/2014.
Done in just under 4 months. 5 months from the time I started until I have a valid permit.

Paladin
05-25-2014, 6:42 AM
Got my approval letter today. :)
That was fast ( 5 ) days from first interview to letter received. Now have to wait until Tuesday to call for written test and fingerprinting. ( took two months for first interview )Did they require you use more than "self-defense"/"personal protection" to have adequate Good Cause?

Have FCSD applicants received their CCWs using only "self-defense" as Good Cause?

FresnoRob
05-25-2014, 7:23 PM
Did they require you use more than "self-defense"/"personal protection" to have adequate Good Cause?

Have FCSD applicants received their CCWs using only "self-defense" as Good Cause?

I do have good cause so can't speak from personal experience. Sorry. I do believe that the Fresno County Sheriff issues more CCW permits than any other county in California.

Paladin
05-28-2014, 9:35 PM
The answer is - it depends.

If you want a CCW, then get your appointment set ASAP and go apply.

If you want to help reform Fresno's unlawful policy, then standby.
Is this still the case? I assume in the context this means that Sheriff Mims of the FSO is accepting "self-defense" as sufficient Good Cause. Correct?

If so, I think a quote of it should be edited into the OP (and add an "Alert" symbol if SD = GC).

thayne
06-12-2014, 2:03 PM
Did they require you use more than "self-defense"/"personal protection" to have adequate Good Cause?

Have FCSD applicants received their CCWs using only "self-defense" as Good Cause?

I just elaborated a little on self defense and had no problem getting my CCW. My appointment was 2/14/2014 so it may be different now.

rdhjr1973
08-01-2014, 11:17 AM
Took me over a year, due to mostly my own "dragging of feet" due to financial issues. But. the initial appointment to turn in app took only a few days, that was last year. I received my letter to proceed with DOJ and such from FPD Chief within a few weeks after that, from that point I sat idle until 01/14. Paid fees got finger printed for DOJ and received call from PD around the end of April or beginning of May that I was good to go. Finished my CCW course with The Range last night and have my appt with Ray Monday to get my permit. All in all, I'd say minus my personal delays, process took maybe 4 months. I believe mostly due to DOJ delays. Just glad it's over, now need to start shopping for a holster.

DRPoolio
08-06-2014, 7:22 AM
I called for my 1st appt back in mid June, they scheduled me for 8/5. Spoke with the gentlemen at my initial appt for about 15 minutes tops. He had me sign the completed form I brought in, copied my CDL and explained the process to me.

Basically he said he would recommend to the Sheriff (Mims) the permit be issued, unless something popped up on my history. He advised I schedule my CCW class asap and as soon as I received the certificate to call and schedule the 2nd meeting and test. He said the wait time on that appt is about 3 weeks right now.

I've had several friends get in quicker than the initial 6 week wait for my 1st appt. At this point the whole process is down to about 3-4 months start to finish.

rdhjr1973
08-07-2014, 9:17 AM
If you live in Fresno city limits then PD is the way to go! I believe Ed Torrez told me that the Sheriff and PD are about the same time frame, 4 months and a chunk of that is waiting on DOJ. He's hoping to see it come down to 2 months. He told me that getting them approved isn't the problem, the problem is they want more people to apply! So pass the word!

DRPoolio
08-25-2014, 4:12 AM
I called for my 1st appt back in mid June, they scheduled me for 8/5. Spoke with the gentlemen at my initial appt for about 15 minutes tops. He had me sign the completed form I brought in, copied my CDL and explained the process to me.

Basically he said he would recommend to the Sheriff (Mims) the permit be issued, unless something popped up on my history. He advised I schedule my CCW class asap and as soon as I received the certificate to call and schedule the 2nd meeting and test. He said the wait time on that appt is about 3 weeks right now.

I've had several friends get in quicker than the initial 6 week wait for my 1st appt. At this point the whole process is down to about 3-4 months start to finish.


Once I took my class I was able to get the 2nd and final meeting with the county in less than 1 week. From initial interview to last will be less than a month, not sure how long the permit will take to arrive. This is awesome, if you're considering a CCW in Fresno county, now is the time.

FresnoRob
08-25-2014, 4:53 AM
?...From initial interview to last will be less than a month, not sure how long the permit will take to arrive. This is awesome, if you're considering a CCW in Fresno county, now is the time.

My time from initial interview to the second about the same as yours.
I got the permit in about 3 weeks and it was post dated so had to wait 5 more weeks until it was valid.

DRPoolio
09-02-2014, 8:54 PM
My time from initial interview to the second about the same as yours.
I got the permit in about 3 weeks and it was post dated so had to wait 5 more weeks until it was valid.

Sounds familiar Rob, I did my test and Livescan today and they said 4-6 weeks for the permit and card to arrive. My guess it arrives earlier than they say.

August 5th - Sept. 2nd, that's fantastic!

Paladin
09-22-2014, 9:51 PM
If you live in Fresno city limits then PD is the way to go! I believe Ed Torrez told me that the Sheriff and PD are about the same time frame, 4 months and a chunk of that is waiting on DOJ. He's hoping to see it come down to 2 months. He told me that getting them approved isn't the problem, the problem is they want more people to apply! So pass the word!
It looks like FPD accepts SD = GC.

GOOD CAUSE DETERMINATION
Good Cause is defined as any citizen concerned for the safety of themselves, their family and friends or their employees. An investigation will be conducted into the applicant’s statement of good cause. The determination of good cause should consider the totality of circumstances in each individual case. (emphasis added)
From: http://www.fresno.gov/Government/DepartmentDirectory/Police/SelfHelpResources/ApplyCCW.htm

Does FSO also accept Self Defense as sufficient Good Cause w/o more? It does not go into Good Cause at:
http://www.fresnosheriff.org/community/concealed-weapons-permits/235-new-ccw-permits.html

trainwreck1
09-23-2014, 6:06 AM
I got mine this last year took me two months from start to finish. My sister and I did ours at the same time, while she had to wait a couple extra months. I believe they push certain people threw the system faster than others. my sister just an ordinary citizen while I'm a ffer. They basically gave us both every reason to have a ccw in our interview. Very laid back, only thing I hate is the gun limit and how you have to pay every time you take or add a gun on your permit. Apply now it's a good time still from what my friends in the sheriff depart says. Even my city guys saying it's fairly easy to get in the city too now.

danap
10-08-2014, 7:09 PM
I called the Sheriffs Office this morning and got my first appointment interview in a little under two weeks. As I work for the state, I figured this is a good time to apply as many employes are Not on vacation this month and are busy getting work caught up before the coming holidays. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the process keeps moving forward quickly.

sdblu
10-09-2014, 9:20 PM
My timeline for FCSD is:
Called for 1st appt Aug 10th
Sept 3rd I dropped off my app
Sept 17th got my approval letter from Mims
Sept 24th and 25th took my CCW class
Oct 1st completed my fingerprinting, paid fees
I was told it should be sent in the mail within the next couple of weeks.
I have to say the deputy's were very helpful, cooperative and the whole process has been a lot easier than I thought it would be.


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NationsMostWanted
10-13-2014, 11:19 PM
My timeline for FCSD is:
Called for 1st appt Aug 10th
Sept 3rd I dropped off my app
Sept 17th got my approval letter from Mims
Sept 24th and 25th took my CCW class
Oct 1st completed my fingerprinting, paid fees
I was told it should be sent in the mail within the next couple of weeks.
I have to say the deputy's were very helpful, cooperative and the whole process has been a lot easier than I thought it would be.


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I'm planning to do mine tomorrow, you didn't have to interview or wait?

Edit- called and my appointment is in two weeks. So fast

sdblu
10-14-2014, 8:08 PM
I'm planning to do mine tomorrow, you didn't have to interview or wait?

Edit- called and my appointment is in two weeks. So fast


When i called in August and got my appointment in sept I was shocked. I thought they were going to tell me next February or something.

Then when I finished my CCW class I called the next day on a Thursday and had my 2nd interview/ fingerprinting the next weds. It was so much faster than I expected.

The " interview" sounds a lot worse than it is. I thought I had to sit in front of a panel or something. But dropping off the app, 1st interview and fingerprinting 2nd were very informal. It takes place in the hallway of the front entrance of the sheriffs office downtown. Now I am sure they are looking at you to see if you act like a nut or thug. But I have nothing but good things to say about them. You have to take a test. Its all common sense stuff. Kinda like your HSC test but with some CCW stuff sprinkled in. After that the deputy walks you across the street to fingerprinting, pay $208 (cash) and that's it.

Btw I took my CCW class at The Range. It's every Tues for 2 hours and Weds for. 4 hours with no appointment needed. The cost is. $75 plus you need 50 rounds of ammo. You don't need to be a marksman, just hit the paper at 7 yards. They are just looking to see if you handle it safely.





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Colt-45
10-14-2014, 8:19 PM
^^ :eek:

I'm calling tomorrow!

Marinos
10-14-2014, 8:26 PM
Same thing for Tulare.

Ogrewagon
10-15-2014, 6:27 AM
First call got me an interview 10 days later.
Received my letter of approval one week after my interview.
Obtained my certificate.
Called for test and fingerprinting last thursday, appointment tomorrow (one week after call).
Then it will be up to DOJ...
My stepson started his process a few weeks before I did, and got his card in under a month after submission to them.

Looking like a 2 month total process at this time in Fresno County.

I agree with what was said above. The deputies that I have talked to and been interviewed by, have been awesome.

thesav
10-15-2014, 7:04 AM
I went through it 3 years ago and was lucky to get it done in 6 mo.
Friend just went through and he was done in 3 mo.
Fresno Sheriff, btw.

NationsMostWanted
10-15-2014, 5:25 PM
Omg I filled it all out yesterday. Today i get a speeding ticket...so now I have to add it onto my application. Do you guys know if that affects their decision.

After reading through more on ccw. Looks like on application it's asking for everything in the past. I have had a trouble past 12 years ago but the past 11 years has stayed out of trouble and able to purchase and own firearms. I listed my list of things from 12 years ago to show I have nothing to hide. Hopefully I do well in my interview :)

Ogrewagon
10-28-2014, 2:52 PM
I had a three year old speeding ticket, which I disclosed on the application.

Deputy didn't care at all.

danap
10-28-2014, 6:56 PM
Received my letter stating my app was accepted. I need to take my CCW class now.

NationsMostWanted
10-29-2014, 8:07 AM
I did my interview today. Such nice people at sheriff's dept.

How many days usually when you get letter of approval or denial

danap
10-29-2014, 1:16 PM
For me, one week exactly

Ogrewagon
10-29-2014, 5:02 PM
Was one week exactly for me as well. Fresno Sheriff Office.

NationsMostWanted
11-07-2014, 9:05 PM
Yup a week and I got my results. What instructor is the best price to do in Fresno area?

danap
11-07-2014, 9:32 PM
Yup a week and I got my results. What instructor is the best price to do in Fresno area?
Range pistol club, $75 every Wed. & Thurs night. Third Sat of the month, all day.

NationsMostWanted
11-07-2014, 9:58 PM
Range pistol club, $75 every Wed. & Thurs night. Third Sat of the month, all day.

Is it a large class? I read on their site I need to bring all the guns I plan to have on my license?

sdblu
11-08-2014, 4:46 PM
Is it a large class? I read on their site I need to bring all the guns I plan to have on my license?


The first night my class had 6 people in it. The next night there was about 25-30. The second night is for renewals only and the only night you need to bring your guns. And yes you need to bring what you want to add to your permit.


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danap
11-08-2014, 4:51 PM
Is it a large class? I read on their site I need to bring all the guns I plan to have on my license?

I Plan on taking the class this wed, thurs, I was told it has been full for some time. I'm getting there early, I need this class, I've been working alot and have missed the classes for the past month since I got my acceptance letter.
You need to bring your guns and ammo the second day for qualifying, first day is lecture.

NationsMostWanted
11-08-2014, 6:21 PM
Any other places you guys go to other than the Range. Night two is 4 hours right? How does it all go, first night is all class time and second night you shoot for the whole class? If you want to do two guns I would have to bring 100rds of ammo?

DRPoolio
11-09-2014, 5:09 AM
Any other places you guys go to other than the Range. Night two is 4 hours right? How does it all go, first night is all class time and second night you shoot for the whole class? If you want to do two guns I would have to bring 100rds of ammo?

I shot 50 total rounds between the 3 guns on my CCW. You do not have to shoot 50 rounds per gun.

FresnoRob
11-09-2014, 5:58 AM
Any other places you guys go to other than the Range. Night two is 4 hours right? How does it all go, first night is all class time and second night you shoot for the whole class? If you want to do two guns I would have to bring 100rds of ammo?

There are private instructors who give classes as well. Look at the approved instructors list.
https://www.fresnosheriff.org/images/pdfs/Instructor_List.pdf

I couldn't find a link for Fresno PD but I didn't look that hard.
I did FSO and I used Curt Hamett

NationsMostWanted
11-12-2014, 11:50 AM
Is renewal process the same or just a refresh class and pay the county? Do you have to do another good cause again?

sdblu
11-13-2014, 7:26 PM
Renewal is 4 hours for FCSD, not sure for FPD. $77 and get fingerprinted again along with the renewal app. Yes good cause is in there still, but they don't hassle you about self defence.


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NationsMostWanted
11-13-2014, 9:19 PM
Renewal is 4 hours for FCSD, not sure for FPD. $77 and get fingerprinted again along with the renewal app. Yes good cause is in there still, but they don't hassle you about self defence.


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Oh OK so if initial approval I used self defense, on renewal just write same thing and should get renewed without problems

rockblaster
11-13-2014, 9:29 PM
Sheriff Mims is awesome! All of us in the Sierras hold her and her deputies in the highest regard. I hope she doesn't retire until she is in her 90's!

sdblu
11-21-2014, 5:14 PM
Today my permit arrived. So total time from first call to permit in hand was 3 months and 11 days.

Better than I thought and the deputies were great to deal with.




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NationsMostWanted
11-21-2014, 10:11 PM
How long after I do the livescan? Few weeks? Until I get the card. What questions are on the second visit and the test? Common sense?

sdblu
11-22-2014, 5:25 AM
How long after I do the livescan? Few weeks? Until I get the card. What questions are on the second visit and the test? Common sense?


I did my livescan on Oct 1st and got the card yesterday. So 7 weeks? Which is my only complaint, that my permit was valid 11/1 but it took until 11/20 to arrive.

Test questions are common sense, similar to the HSC test but with CCW questions. Things like where can you carry, safety first, etc.

The second interview consists of the deputy giving you the test. It's informal, you take it at the desk in the hallway. You have to show your CCW class certificate to him at that time. The deputy reviews basic laws and your responsibility as a CCW holder, then walks you across the street to the jail for fingerprinting.

You pay the money to fingerprinting, do the livescan and your done. It's pretty quick.


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DRPoolio
11-28-2014, 9:29 PM
How long after I do the livescan? Few weeks? Until I get the card. What questions are on the second visit and the test? Common sense?

My permit came in about 30 days following my scan. We're fortunate here in Fresno, MM is a blessing to the local gun community.

NationsMostWanted
11-28-2014, 9:46 PM
I do mine live scan in Dec so maybe Jan I'll have it then hopefully. Also allows me some time to continue my research on SD insurance

danap
12-03-2014, 3:49 PM
I did the live scan on Dec 1st. I was told DOJ has up to 90 days to finish background check. My permit is dated Dec, 17, and I have no idea how they came up with that date but I have live scan I.D. already on file so I will wait and see if holidays speed things up or down!

Got my IWB holster and mini gun breaking in together!

NationsMostWanted
12-03-2014, 4:52 PM
I did the live scan on Dec 1st. I was told DOJ has up to 90 days to finish background check. My permit is dated Dec, 17, and I have no idea how they came up with that date but I have live scan I.D. already on file so I will wait and see if holidays speed things up or down!

Got my IWB holster and mini gun breaking in together!

Hmmm so on the background check, is it as long as your able to own a gun your able to pass?

danap
12-03-2014, 7:49 PM
The live scan is more in depth tracking of your fingerprints! Silly that the systems are not linked.
You could still be denied if the FEDS find something!

You will now be in the system!!!!!

NationsMostWanted
12-03-2014, 7:51 PM
The live scan is more in depth tracking of your fingerprints! Silly that the systems are not linked.
You could still be denied if the FEDS find something!

That sucks. I don't have anything major so hopefully all goes fine for me. If it's the same check during the 10 day period then I'm sure I'm good

DougJ
12-17-2014, 4:09 PM
My wife and I had our interviews yesterday morning, about a week after the first call.

Since we're both doing the CCW app concurrently the Deputy (retired) took us both in at the same time. It was very quick, friendly and informal as he reviewed our applications and just chatted a bit. Very supportive individual and he made sure we knew that Sheriff Mims believes that it's a right and she fully supports CCW.

He said he would have our backgrounds done that day, and we would get an approval letter back within 10 days or so detailing the next steps. I got the distinct impression that he feels the 90ish delay with DOJ is unreasonable. He did mention that the same request takes 48 hours through the FBI...

We would have had our Class & qualification done, but the storm on Friday put a stop to that as we were going to be doing it outdoors.

The only question the asked about the firearms was if each of them was "registered" to one of us. I must have looked at him a bit funny with his use of that word because he quickly asked if they were all purchased through a gun shop in CA. I told him they were and made the point of telling him that we had just purchased the Shield and Glock 42 via SSE. He didn't bat an eyelash at that.

NationsMostWanted
12-17-2014, 6:54 PM
I did my live scan today and the guy told me about 6-8 weeks or less. Hopefully everything goes fast and well. He said they took a good look on my history and it was OK to them so u less I have something else in another state I should be good to go

CalBlackSheep
12-24-2014, 11:20 PM
Is one faster than the other right now (Police vs. Sheriff's)?

FresnoRob
12-25-2014, 5:49 AM
6 months ago the PD was faster. Not sure if this is still the case. As the Sheriff's Office issues more, I expect the City PD still is.

DougJ
12-28-2014, 7:09 AM
Update:

About a week from first call to the interview on the 16th of December. We both got our approval letters postmarked on the 22nd. Now waiting for a class on the 10th of January since we are looking to do that with a specific individual.

VintageRider
01-06-2015, 2:38 PM
I have my first interview with the FCSO on the 28th. Anyone have experience with the process with a previous mark on their record?

YtseJam
01-06-2015, 2:39 PM
Define "mark"?

FresnoRob
01-06-2015, 3:24 PM
I have my first interview with the FCSO on the 28th. Anyone have experience with the process with a previous mark on their record?

How serious and how long ago, seem to be what matters.

VintageRider
01-06-2015, 10:12 PM
How serious and how long ago, seem to be what matters.

Thanks for the reply. I think it should all be sorted out. They can only say no, I suppose.

I don't know how relevant the updates on the time frame are still, but I will keep you guys posted on the time line of events.

Called for interview 12/22/2014
Interview 1/28/2015
CCW Initial and Approval Letter 2/7/2015
Second Interview/Live Scan 3/5/2015

NationsMostWanted
01-07-2015, 11:14 AM
I'm at three weeks now after my lives can still waiting

danap
01-08-2015, 8:09 PM
Livescan Dec. 1 and still waiting

NationsMostWanted
01-18-2015, 10:39 PM
Past a month now I hope I get my livessan portion approved

VintageRider
01-19-2015, 6:57 PM
Past a month now I hope I get my livessan portion approved

NM, I saw your previous post. I am planning ahead and taking have signed up for the initial class.

danap
01-20-2015, 3:36 PM
My permit arrived today!

About two and a half months total from first interview to today. The process might have went quicker because I chose later dates for interviews because of family vacations and extra work days.

NationsMostWanted
01-20-2015, 9:45 PM
My permit arrived today!

About two and a half months total from first interview to today. The process might have went quicker because I chose later dates for interviews because of family vacations and extra work days.

I hope mine is in a few days

VintageRider
01-30-2015, 1:18 PM
Interview went well and I was told that I should get my letter in a week or two. Then it would be 4-6 weeks for the second according to the calendar. After that it could take about 8 weeks for the permit to arrive, after live scan.

That is the basic timeline laid out to me. We'll see how it works out.

NationsMostWanted
01-30-2015, 7:53 PM
I'm at one month and two weeks now

DougJ
02-06-2015, 10:32 AM
Our planned trainer turned out to be a bust for us and was our only significant delay up to the point of getting our test/livescans done yesterday. We ended up just going to The Range for the required training.

Some FUD built in to the training but it's a nice facility.

Our timeline so far:

First call around 8 December.

First interview on 16 December.

Approval letters postmarked 22 December.

CCW training class 28/29 January.

Test/livescan 5 February.

Now we wait on the DOJ...

NationsMostWanted
02-06-2015, 7:34 PM
How long before I try to call? I'm at two months on the 17th

NationsMostWanted
02-07-2015, 3:36 PM
Ahhh mine came today, what is a doj triplicate ?

spongeworthy
02-22-2015, 10:34 AM
Hi all --

Could someone post the complete restrictions listed on the FCSO permit?

VintageRider
03-05-2015, 9:41 PM
Hi all --

Could someone post the complete restrictions listed on the FCSO permit?

I took a look at my coming license today and didn't see any restrictions on the permit.

What information are you looking for?

falconman515
03-06-2015, 7:58 AM
Anyone suggest either Sheriff or local PD?

There was a big back and forth on the Fresno Gun Club FB page about this and I'm not sure the best route to go and why.

I do like that the PD has a direct contact in Ed Torrez that you can call at anytime for any reason since I have some questions prior to starting my CCW process and I was told the PD can get you in Right Away like now and now have to wait like County.

I have the application and I'm getting it filled out but not sure where I am going to go yet to start.

DougJ
03-06-2015, 8:44 AM
I don't live in the city so the County was my only option. That said, I had no issues with the process and the individuals I had dealings with were supportive and professional.

Very quick from interview to approval letter, as in about a week. Still waiting for the DOJ.

spongeworthy
03-06-2015, 5:14 PM
I took a look at my coming license today and didn't see any restrictions on the permit.

What information are you looking for?

I was under the impression here in California (I'm new to the state) that the individual counties/issuing authorities list their own additional rules on the permit that must be followed.

VintageRider
03-06-2015, 10:06 PM
I was under the impression here in California (I'm new to the state) that the individual counties/issuing authorities list their own additional rules on the permit that must be followed.

There is a four gun restriction and the verbal restrictions I received were no airports and no schools.

Hope that helps.

VintageRider
03-06-2015, 10:09 PM
Anyone suggest either Sheriff or local PD?

There was a big back and forth on the Fresno Gun Club FB page about this and I'm not sure the best route to go and why.

I do like that the PD has a direct contact in Ed Torrez that you can call at anytime for any reason since I have some questions prior to starting my CCW process and I was told the PD can get you in Right Away like now and now have to wait like County.

I have the application and I'm getting it filled out but not sure where I am going to go yet to start.

Check both calendars, I suppose. If you live in the city then you can go through the PD, but if you live in an outlying area or city then go through SO.

FresnoRob
03-07-2015, 5:23 AM
Either the city or county they both seem to issue. I did the county took 5 months last year.

EDIT UPDATE: a story someone posted about women with guns said the Sheriff's office now takes about a year due to the number of applications. If you belive news stories might want to check the FPD timeframe.

sdblu
03-08-2015, 8:35 PM
I live in the city, but went with SD. The differences are minor but here's what I know.

SD Requires a 6 hour CCW class. PD requires 8 hours.

SD allows up to 4 guns on your permit. PD allows 3.

If you are pulled over for any reason you are not required to identity you have a concealed permit and you are carrying unless asked by the officer if you have a SD permit. PD you must disclose upon being pulled over.

SD was very helpful and k have heard good things about PD as well.

SD restrictions are no court houses, airport secure area and school grounds( it's not law YET but part of their rules) I don't know PDs restrictions.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

spongeworthy
03-09-2015, 7:30 PM
I live in the city, but went with SD. The differences are minor but here's what I know.

SD Requires a 6 hour CCW class. PD requires 8 hours.

SD allows up to 4 guns on your permit. PD allows 3.

If you are pulled over for any reason you are not required to identity you have a concealed permit and you are carrying unless asked by the officer if you have a SD permit. PD you must disclose upon being pulled over.

SD was very helpful and k have heard good things about PD as well.

SD restrictions are no court houses, airport secure area and school grounds( it's not law YET but part of their rules) I don't know PDs restrictions.


Thank you. I have my follow-up with the SD next week.

VintageRider
03-10-2015, 10:43 PM
Update: The responses are in from both the DOJ and the FBI, but I imagine I will still have to wait another month until my CCW hard card and 4501 form arrive.

Why does the DOJ response take For-eh-verr? FBI response was done the same day I did my live scan.

I already knew that I had to be patient, but it doesn't hurt to ask why they take forever. The SD put an issuance date on my permit and stated that if the system takes longer than anticipated they would change the date so there was no missed time.

falconman515
03-14-2015, 10:36 AM
Called Sheriffs office yesterday to schedule appt. for application drop off and first interview.

They are about 1-1/2 months out

My interview is April 27th

SuicideCharley
03-17-2015, 12:08 PM
Deciding on SD or PD, taking class for multi state soon at Breco. Do a lot of traveling and figured I put it off long enough.

Anyone know the wait time for PD?

falconman515
03-17-2015, 1:41 PM
Deciding on SD or PD, taking class for multi state soon at Breco. Do a lot of traveling and figured I put it off long enough.

Anyone know the wait time for PD?

I've head the PD is much quicker ... The guy to call and talk with is Ed Torrez.

I opted for SD since I have been told by most to go that route and not PD ( they do extra background checks along with a few more rules come along with the PD).

But I was told they are like "come in now if you want" kinda quick lately.

SuicideCharley
03-17-2015, 1:47 PM
I've head the PD is much quicker ... The guy to call and talk with is Ed Torrez.

I opted for SD since I have been told by most to go that route and not PD ( they do extra background checks along with a few more rules come along with the PD).

But I was told they are like "come in now if you want" kinda quick lately.

Awesome. Thank you.

spongeworthy
04-13-2015, 9:33 PM
I couldn't find anything from searching -- does Fresno County allow more than three handguns for their permit?

I'm in waiting limbo right now and would like to use my GSSF coupon, but if I can't add a fourth I may just choose a full size instead of compact.

NationsMostWanted
04-13-2015, 9:49 PM
When we renew do we have to go through same process. If by then if a new sheriff is in office can they make it where we can't renew

anhzx
04-13-2015, 10:18 PM
I couldn't find anything from searching -- does Fresno County allow more than three handguns for their permit?

I'm in waiting limbo right now and would like to use my GSSF coupon, but if I can't add a fourth I may just choose a full size instead of compact.

Fresno County allows max 4 guns. You can always add the fourth one later for $10 without going through the process again. Was told you can fill out a form at the livescan place and pay the fee there.

spongeworthy
04-13-2015, 10:22 PM
Fresno County allows max 4 guns. You can always add the fourth one later for $10 without going through the process again. Was told you can fill out a form at the livescan place and pay the fee there.

Excellent, thanks for the quick reply. I'm going to call them tomorrow and inquire if I can do it before my initial permit arrives. Now to find a dealer who will accept the GSSF coupon...

anhzx
04-13-2015, 11:03 PM
When we renew do we have to go through same process. If by then if a new sheriff is in office can they make it where we can't renew

no. you only need to go to the livescan place across the street from sheriff office and do your renewal paperwork. I think it's highly unlikely that the new sheriff will stop renew the permit, as long as you don't let it expires.

anhzx
04-13-2015, 11:27 PM
Any other places you guys go to other than the Range. Night two is 4 hours right? How does it all go, first night is all class time and second night you shoot for the whole class? If you want to do two guns I would have to bring 100rds of ammo?

I took the class with John Linenbach. Highly recommending him. You can do all in one day.

VintageRider
04-16-2015, 9:11 PM
Still waiting. Permit date of issuance was 4/15/15.

DougJ
04-25-2015, 8:55 PM
Our planned trainer turned out to be a bust for us and was our only significant delay up to the point of getting our test/livescans done yesterday. We ended up just going to The Range for the required training.

Some FUD built in to the training but it's a nice facility.

Our timeline so far:

First call around 8 December.

First interview on 16 December.

Approval letters postmarked 22 December.

CCW training class 28/29 January.

Test/livescan 5 February.

Now we wait on the DOJ...


AND the wait in finally over. The obvious bottleneck is DOJ...

Anyway, my wife's permit arrived in the mail Thursday, and mine was in today's mail. (Sat, 25 April) That's 80 days from livescan to permit in hand, 139 days from the first phone call. The FCSO was pretty efficient and the only delays came from our schedule (about 30 days) and the DOJ's delay.

FresnoRob
04-26-2015, 8:10 AM
Congratulations

falconman515
04-26-2015, 8:10 PM
I have my first interview with the Sheriffs office tomorrow morning.

Hopefully it goes well and my past issues 15+ years ago don't effect my approval.

Guess we will see.

Called about 6 weeks ago .... so a month and a half is not bad.

I will update with how the interview goes and then if I get a Yay or Nay

falconman515
05-07-2015, 5:32 PM
Approved ... Time to go purchase my carry weapon and take the CCW class in a few weeks!

falconman515
05-07-2015, 5:37 PM
So after I get my CCW course done and qualified I of course have to go back in and take the test, be fingerprinted and pay fee.

Question .........

How hard is the test at the sheriffs office? What does it consist of, how many questions, etc. etc. etc.?????

Just kinda wanting to know what to expect is all.

Thanks :)

DougJ
05-07-2015, 5:47 PM
Can you tell up from down? You'll pass the test.

It was multiple guess, 25 or questions. I read quickly and I seriously think it took me less than 3 minutes and I missed zero. My wife took a few minutes longer and missed one.

falconman515
05-07-2015, 7:09 PM
Can you tell up from down? You'll pass the test.

It was multiple guess, 25 or questions. I read quickly and I seriously think it took me less than 3 minutes and I missed zero. My wife took a few minutes longer and missed one.

Pretty much exactly what I figured but was just curious.

Basically common sense ... I do the FSC test and think "really, a child could pass this test" LOL

Thanks for the reply ... figured it was stupidly easy.

FresnoRob
05-07-2015, 7:30 PM
Congratulations. You will do fine on the test.

falconman515
05-07-2015, 11:08 PM
So another question ..... I know that when you get done taking the class etc. etc. and you go in for the second interview to drop off the completed class certificate, take the test and then you pay ... you get fingerprinted and pay the fees that includes a background check as well.

So the back-ground check .... what is that for? Do they not do that already before Approving you for a CCW license? I am assuming it's kinda the same thing as buying a firearm? You are paying for the background via the DOJ and the county is registering you with them as a concealed carry permit holder?

Am I right on the reason they fingerprint and background check you? (cause the background check part is pretty pricey at $132 for prints and check).

Thanks so much guys for the info ... just want to make sure there will be no issues in the end after paying near 300 bucks for the class and county fees you know.

falconman515
05-08-2015, 10:17 PM
Great Info Here ...........

http://www.fresno.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F2AB0C4B-7010-4EB5-82A2-4C2DDA5DBC25/29946/Policy218CCWLicense052214WEBREADY.pdf

VintageRider
05-12-2015, 12:42 AM
Sheriff's department has told me one two occasions now that they are still waiting for the CADOJ response for my live scan. Live scan says they sent the response to FSD no March 12th. Working on 11 weeks now from Live Scan. I know they are pretty busy with CCW permits, but I would think they would hold to their personal goal of 3 months from begging to end of the process.

Anyone else have to wait longer than the 8 weeks?

spongeworthy
05-12-2015, 6:30 AM
Sheriff's department has told me one two occasions now that they are still waiting for the CADOJ response for my live scan. Live scan says they sent the response to FSD no March 12th. Working on 11 weeks now from Live Scan. I know they are pretty busy with CCW permits, but I would think they would hold to their personal goal of 3 months from begging to end of the process.

Anyone else have to wait longer than the 8 weeks?

I'm at exactly eight weeks from my Livescan. Both agencies returned the Livescan results the same day I was fingerprinted...

falconman515
05-12-2015, 2:04 PM
So this is a wait AFTER you go in and take your test, do your fingerprints and pay your fee's???

You are waiting this long Just to get your permit from them in the mail?

IS this normal? I was told you get your permit pretty quick after you in for your test and fingerprinting (after you do your CCW class etc.).

Curious if this is the case?????

spongeworthy
05-12-2015, 5:03 PM
So this is a wait AFTER you go in and take your test, do your fingerprints and pay your fee's???

You are waiting this long Just to get your permit from them in the mail?

IS this normal? I was told you get your permit pretty quick after you in for your test and fingerprinting (after you do your CCW class etc.).

Curious if this is the case?????

You are correct, this is post fingerprinting, etc., and yes, it is "normal." We are fortunate by California standards here in Fresno county.

falconman515
05-12-2015, 7:31 PM
You are correct, this is post fingerprinting, etc., and yes, it is "normal." We are fortunate by California standards here in Fresno county.

So After I complete my CCW class and go in an take my test, fingerprint, pay my fees I could literally wait like 2 months just for my permit to show up due to this livescan crap taking forever?

paintballergb
05-12-2015, 7:39 PM
I have my first interview coming up. What does that consist of?

FresnoRob
05-12-2015, 7:59 PM
So After I complete my CCW class and go in an take my test, fingerprint, pay my fees I could literally wait like 2 months just for my permit to show up due to this livescan crap taking forever?

I believe the DOJ is the ones who holds this part up.


I have my first interview coming up. What does that consist of?

They look over the application and if the see anything they want you the explain further. I think I was there 10 minutes.

falconman515
05-12-2015, 11:47 PM
Well that kinda pisses me off

Hopefully this will not be the case and my permit arrives in a descent amount of time.

I swear we wait F'ing long enough for anything gun related in this $#!t Hole State as it is!

DougJ
05-13-2015, 6:10 AM
Falconman, if you read some of the previous post you'll see reference to this issue multiple times. When I did my initial interview the retired Deputy I interviewed with told me to expect two to three months waiting for the DOJ.

It was 80 days from livescan to getting the permit in the mail, at every other step of the way the FCSO was supportive, fast, and efficient.

falconman515
05-13-2015, 8:09 AM
Interesting ... wasn't aware it took that long ... bummer :shifty:

Oh well, I haven't had it for 37 years now, "guess an extra couple months Won't Kill Me ... Hopefully"
(Get it? See what I did there? Little CCW humor for ya! :rofl2: )

VintageRider
05-19-2015, 11:05 PM
So, I can finally update the full timeline. Just a bit of information for those that are going through the process soon or currently.

Called for interview - 12/22/2014
First Interview - 1/28/2015
CCW Class and Approval Letter - 2/7/2015
Second Interview/Live Scan - 3/5/2015
CCW Permit Arrived - 5/19/2015

falconman515
05-19-2015, 11:33 PM
So, I can finally update the full timeline. Just a bit of information for those that are going through the process soon or currently.

Called for interview - 12/22/2014
First Interview - 1/28/2015
CCW Class and Approval Letter - 2/7/2015
Second Interview/Live Scan - 3/5/2015
CCW Permit Arrived - 5/19/2015

Sheriffs or PD?

Damn ... 2-1/2 months to actualy get your permit after the live scan .... Crazy!!!

I have my second / livescan on the 27th .... So I guess I'll maybe get my permit sometime around the beginning of August I would assume .... :rolleyes:

VintageRider
05-19-2015, 11:55 PM
FCSD and they were very professional, but I was told they would adjust the date on my permit to when it was sent out and that didn't happen. I'm just glad it finally arrived.

FresnoRob
05-20-2015, 4:35 AM
FCSD and they were very professional, but I was told they would adjust the date on my permit to when it was sent out and that didn't happen. I'm just glad it finally arrived.

I got mine in the mail ( last year ) a full month before it was good.

DougJ
05-20-2015, 6:06 AM
Mine didn't get adjusted either, the "projected" date they used on the permit was about 4 weeks before they sent it out, not a big deal at all. FCSO tries to estimate the DOJ wait and have the permit ready to send as soon as they can.

matto235
05-20-2015, 6:43 AM
I'm still waiting for mine. After live scan I am now on my 11th week of twiddling thumbs... So this delay is at the state level or Fresno? Crazy that I signed the paper at live scan that they are going to give me back to make the license valid. Exactly what takes 11 weeks about that?

DougJ
05-20-2015, 7:54 AM
matto, It's a State delay but I was briefed that if I didn't hear anything after 90+ days to give them a call. I got mine at 80 days after livescan. Just call the CCW main number and ask about it, they won't have issue with that.

falconman515
05-20-2015, 9:28 AM
Crazy that this becomes like a 4-6 month process from start to finish. :shrug:

smk
05-21-2015, 6:59 PM
Well, my day has finally come...interview tomorrow morning. Hoping it goes well.

spongeworthy
05-21-2015, 7:44 PM
Received mine this week: nine weeks from Livescan.

What does everyone recommend to laminate this card? Can't say I've ever laminated anything before.

edit: Looks like FedEx offers that service, guess I'll go with that.