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jimsgotthedeal
10-13-2010, 8:51 AM
I don't know about you but I hate paying for extras, like shipping and transfer fees. It's nice to find a good price but by the time I am done with all the "add on's", I would end up paying the same amount or less at a local store.
Which brings me to my question:

What do you think is a reasonable charge for transfers? At California Derringer our regular customers pay $35, the very first transfer is $45.

What are you paying?

Do you think our price is fair?

(Keep in mind that we pay a fee of $25 for each transfer, this leaves a wopping $10 dollar profit) We don't overchare because we value our customers and are happy to help with a transfer, shoot we'll even help find you some ammo!

Speak your mind, and enjoy this beautiful day!!!!

Angie :chris:

Rhythm of Life
10-13-2010, 8:55 AM
$35.

$10 profit for 15 minutes work ($40 hr), especially when its just paperwork.... seems fair.

I'm talking PPT, am I on the same page?

kmca
10-13-2010, 8:59 AM
I don't know about you but I hate paying for extras, like shipping and transfer fees. It's nice to find a good price but by the time I am done with all the "add on's", I would end up paying the same amount or less at a local store.
Which brings me to my question:

What do you think is a reasonable charge for transfers? At California Derringer our regular customers pay $35, the very first transfer is $45.

What are you paying?

Do you think our price is fair?

(Keep in mind that we pay a fee of $25 for each transfer, this leaves a wopping $10 dollar profit) We don't overchare because we value our customers and are happy to help with a transfer, shoot we'll even help find you some ammo!

Speak your mind, and enjoy this beautiful day!!!!

Angie :chris:

Is that including the DROS fee? If it does, that's MORE than reasonable, assuming you're not talking about PPT.

Heiko
10-13-2010, 9:12 AM
I haven't done a PPT at my usual FFL but have had a couple of guns shipped there. They charge $65 including DROS. That means they make $40 on the deal. I would rather not pay that much but I understand it. They have to receive the gun, put it in their books and sort of be responsible for that gun, and theoretically have lost out on a sale. I consider it the cost of finding a deal online and after I factor in that cost, shipping costs, versus the dealer markup and sales tax, I still come out way ahead. I have gotten one deal where another FFL gave me a "good guy" deal and only charged me DROS when I had an OLL shipped from Spike's.

7anthony7
10-13-2010, 9:15 AM
If you are talking a PPT, $35 is the most they can charge. For a shipped gun I pay $50 which includes the DROS. I have heard some gunshops trying to get creative with the PPT fee and it sounds like DOJ is on that from when I talked to them last.

Colt-45
10-13-2010, 9:15 AM
OP, are you talking about private party transfers or internet transfers?

Bullwinkle
10-13-2010, 9:23 AM
I don't know about you but I hate paying for extras, like shipping and transfer fees.

You and me both, sister! :D Especially when I don't have a choice (i.e. a transfer must take place by a licensed FFL), so it's kind of a monopoly industry.

I found a new gun on gunbroker.com once, went searching for a local FFL to handle the transfer (this was way back when I was a newb and this was my first attempt at it), and the first guy I went to said he wouldn't do it because, "If you want a new gun you can buy one from me." He would only deal in used guns. Okay, I'm a reasonable guy and I can see his point-of-view... but then shouldn't he have offered to match the price (w/shipping included) instead of charging full MSRP? So I never went back there for anything since.

Then there's the local retailer here who charges three digits (plus DROS) for transfers! His reasoning is, "I take all the risk and could lose my business over a paper error, and get no profit from it." Well, he's got a point too (to a certain degree), but there's a difference between "profit" and "gouging" (or just charging an extreme amount so you don't have to deal with it). Needless to say, I don't give him any business either.

The person I've used in the past currently charges $35 (plus DROS). He's the lowest in San Diego County (of which I'm aware). I think most FFLs here charge $50-60 (plus DROS), though admittedly I haven't priced around in a few years (can't get the guns--used or new--I want in CA anyway). So if you charge $45/$35 w/DROS included for transfers from an outside FFL to your customers, that's beyond reasonable by comparison! As budget-conscious (and just plain cheap) consumers I'm sure everyone would prefer lower, but to be honest I personally am more irked about: sales tax DROS HSC shipping(in that order) more than I am about a transfer fee. FFL holders have to eat too. The earlier post about $40/hr for paperwork is a good one though (IMO) and puts things in perspective.

jtmkinsd
10-13-2010, 9:34 AM
$35.

$10 profit for 15 minutes work ($40 hr), especially when its just paperwork.... seems fair.

I'm talking PPT, am I on the same page?

15 minutes? Sure, if both parties have their act together with the proper ID/POA etc. Oh, and don't forget about the 20 years of storage, and added administrative time of properly filing the packet...The PPT fee is mandated by the state. We lose money on these transfers. It was always funny to me the state will tell us we have to "suck it up" when it comes to our fee for PPT's, but the state still gets their full fee. A "fair" fee for a transfer is always contingent on the cost of doing business. Anyone who looks into what the overhead is on a firearms transfer business might have a little better understanding of why the average transfer fee is what it is.

jimsgotthedeal
10-13-2010, 9:40 AM
Tranfers can be complicated by we want to simplify!

There are different types of private party transfers:

Some involve the actual sale of the firearm by the dealer, in those cases the transfer fee is $25 including the DROS (Buyer pays DROS)

Others involve the owner of a firearm selling to their friend, relative, inherit, gift etc.
These are called
"Transfers Only" $45 for the first gun
$35 for each additional gun
Includes DROS $25 FEE

The paperwork and process of putting the gun in your hand takes time, there is also proper documentation, safe handling and secured space is provided for the gun at California Derringer.

ANGIE

VTRweasel
10-13-2010, 9:42 AM
Um, I've only done one PPT and it was 60 bucks. I didn't think to shop around.

jessegpresley
10-13-2010, 9:46 AM
Did this place used to be Krausewerk Collectibles?

Looking at the website, $595 for S&W 638?! Used!?

Droc101
10-13-2010, 9:49 AM
Tranfers can be complicated by we want to simplify!

There are different types of private party transfers:

Some involve the actual sale of the firearm by the dealer, in those cases the transfer fee is $25 including the DROS (Buyer pays DROS)

Others involve the owner of a firearm selling to their friend, relative, inherit, gift etc.
These are called
"Transfers Only" $45 for the first gun
$35 for each additional gun
Includes DROS $25 FEE

The paperwork and process of putting the gun in your hand takes time, there is also proper documentation, safe handling and secured space is provided for the gun at California Derringer.

ANGIE
your verbage is a bit off.

PPT (private party transfer) is between two non FFL parties with a FFL intermediary

Dealer transfer is a firearm from FFL to non FFL. This may be a used or new gun, locally purchased or shipped into a local ffl from either another ffl or an out of state/area private party.

The most that can be charged total for PPT is 35. (25 dros 10 dealer)
Dealer transfers are unrestricted.
At Ralston's a dealer transfer will get you for $50 plus dros. We are the cheapest in the county. The overhead is a major factor in the amount charged but we do believe in making it as affordable as possible. The other places in the county are double+ our rate.

jimsgotthedeal
10-13-2010, 9:54 AM
Did this place used to be Krausewerk Collectibles?

Looking at the website, $595 for S&W 638?! Used!?

No Krausewerk is still there, and so are we =)

The used one is a 642+P on our site for $595 but for a cal guns user we can do $575, Like New in Box

We have a 638+P .38 SPECIAL $645 Brand NEW!

ANGIE

7anthony7
10-13-2010, 9:55 AM
Tranfers can be complicated by we want to simplify!

There are different types of private party transfers:

Some involve the actual sale of the firearm by the dealer, in those cases the transfer fee is $25 including the DROS (Buyer pays DROS)

Others involve the owner of a firearm selling to their friend, relative, inherit, gift etc.
These are called
"Transfers Only" $45 for the first gun
$35 for each additional gun
Includes DROS $25 FEE

The paperwork and process of putting the gun in your hand takes time, there is also proper documentation, safe handling and secured space is provided for the gun at California Derringer.

ANGIE

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.
For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of$10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.
(PC section 12072(d))

Straight off DOJ website. If someone tries to charge more than 35, call it up and report for a ppt is what they told me.

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2010, 9:56 AM
your verbage is a bit off.

PPT (private party transfer) is between two non FFL parties with a FFL intermediary

Dealer transfer is a firearm from FFL to non FFL. This may be a used or new gun, locally purchased or shipped into a local ffl from either another ffl or an out of state/area private party.

The most that can be charged total for PPT is 35. (25 dros 10 dealer)
Dealer transfers are unrestricted.
At Ralston's a dealer transfer will get you for $50 plus dros. We are the cheapest in the county. The overhead is a major factor in the amount charged but we do believe in making it as affordable as possible. The other places in the county are double+ our rate.


Uh, your understanding of PPTs is a little off too. I know more than one FFL who treats consignment guns as PPTs. That way, non rostered handguns can still be displayed and sold in their shops.

Angie,

If you are charging $45 to transfer a firearm between two california residents, you are breaking the law. You might want to consider changing your practises. If I'm misinterpeting your post, I'll apologize in advance.

Bullwinkle
10-13-2010, 10:03 AM
Just to remove any doubt, in my previous post I'm talking about an out-of-state transfer... gun ships to FFL here in CA, then is transferred from FFL to me.

However, I did make a (ahem) "slight" mistake in the earlier post... it's $35 FFL transfer fee plus the $25 DROS.

mgkdrgn
10-13-2010, 10:05 AM
I haven't done a PPT at my usual FFL but have had a couple of guns shipped there. They charge $65 including DROS. That means they make $40 on the deal. I would rather not pay that much but I understand it. They have to receive the gun, put it in their books and sort of be responsible for that gun, and theoretically have lost out on a sale.

You also leave out the fact that they have to file that paperwork and keep track of it for at least 20 years, have it available at any time for BATFE inspection, and face the loss of their license, business, livelihood, fines and even jail time if they screw any of it up just "_" that much.

And as for the earlier comment about "$10 profit for 15 minutes of paperwork" ... there is no way on gods green earth you can do =everything= associated with a transfer in 15 minutes. And that is just on the ones that go smoothly ... the time spend on the ones that don't can be a bottomless pit.

As for the "profit" part... you have INCOME confused with PROFT. You take all of your INCOME, subtract from that all of your EXPENSES, and anything that is left over is your PROFIT. After all the accounting is done, most, if not all of that $10 is gone. Nobody is getting rich doing transfers. (Well, there -may- be ONE guy ... the ONLY FFL in Washington DC {there are 4 total I believe} that will deal with the general public. If you want to own a handgun in DC, you MUST go through him. All he can do are transfers, because DC will not allow him to "sell" guns. Last I knew his transfer fee was $175.)

And yes, I am an FFL (although not in California)

jtmkinsd
10-13-2010, 10:08 AM
Just to remove any doubt, in my previous post I'm talking about an out-of-state transfer... gun ships to FFL here in CA, then is transferred from FFL to me.

However, I did make a (ahem) "slight" mistake in the earlier post... it's $35 FFL transfer fee plus the $25 DROS.

That is what we charge as well...as was stated, it is a misdemeanor to charge more than $35 for a PPT (both buyer and seller are at my counter to do transfer, or consignment sale)

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Just to remove any doubt, in my previous post I'm talking about an out-of-state transfer... gun ships to FFL here in CA, then is transferred from FFL to me.

However, I did make a (ahem) "slight" mistake in the earlier post... it's $35 FFL transfer fee plus the $25 DROS.

That's cheap! I know several places that charge $50-$60 + DROS and, I think even that is a fair price.

Droc101
10-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Uh, your understanding of PPTs is a little off too. I know more than one FFL who treats consignment guns as PPTs. That way, non rostered handguns can still be displayed and sold in their shops.

Angie,

If you are charging $45 to transfer a firearm between two california residents, you are breaking the law. You might want to consider changing your practises. If I'm misinterpeting your post, I'll apologize in advance.

Grossly misinterpreted,
The most you can charge for a single firearm ppt is 35 (includes dros and dealer fee). Both the seller and the buyer have to be present. We do consignments in this fashion as well, the seller has to come into the store to do the paperwork with the buyer.
Dealer transfers do not have restrictions on the fees other than you can not charge more than $25 as state fees (dros)
This subject has been http://www.ryanmcbain.com/forums/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse.gif
just use the search function. I made the same mistake on the PPTs when we first started. It happens, the doj gives out a lot of :fud:

VTRweasel
10-13-2010, 10:16 AM
Reading my receipt from a single gun PPT

"Registration $25.00, Our Labor $10.00, Our Labor $25.00. = $60 bucks :confused:

Droc101
10-13-2010, 10:34 AM
Reading my receipt from a single gun PPT

"Registration $25.00, Our Labor $10.00, Our Labor $25.00. = $60 bucks :confused:

If it is a PPT then I would ask for a refund. If denied I would report to doj.

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2010, 10:43 AM
Grossly misinterpreted,
The most you can charge for a single firearm ppt is 35. Both the seller and the buyer have to be present. We do consignments in this fashion as well, the seller has to come into the store to do the paperwork with the buyer.
Dealer transfers do not have restrictions on the fees other than you can not charge more than $25 as state fees (dros)
This subject has been http://www.ryanmcbain.com/forums/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse.gif
just use the search function. I made the same mistake on the PPTs when we first started. It happens the doj gives out a lot of :fud:

I've never heard of a consignment sale requiring both parties to be present at the same time. But, I think that's a great way to CYA. I know of several shops where both parties do not need to be present in the shop at the exact same time. Although, DOJ flunkies may have told you they do, I have yet to see that written in the law.

I may not have stated my thought well but, I am positive that I have not misinterpeted the law. You may have misinterpeted my poorly worded post though. I was trying to make the point that some shops treat consignment sales as dealer sales and others treat them as PPTs (without requiring both parties to be present at the same time).

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2010, 10:46 AM
Reading my receipt from a single gun PPT

"Registration $25.00, Our Labor $10.00, Our Labor $25.00. = $60 bucks :confused:

You'll be hard pressed to prove that they did not preform another service and include it on the reciept but, you should confront them and inquire about it. If it truely was a PPT (was the gun shipped to them? or, did you meet the seller in their shop?) and they overcharged you, I would strongly recommend against doing anymore bussiness with them.

Rhythm of Life
10-13-2010, 10:51 AM
15 minutes? Sure, if both parties have their act together with the proper ID/POA etc. Oh, and don't forget about the 20 years of storage, and added administrative time of properly filing the packet...The PPT fee is mandated by the state. We lose money on these transfers. It was always funny to me the state will tell us we have to "suck it up" when it comes to our fee for PPT's, but the state still gets their full fee. A "fair" fee for a transfer is always contingent on the cost of doing business. Anyone who looks into what the overhead is on a firearms transfer business might have a little better understanding of why the average transfer fee is what it is.

We sell firearms at my work, now I may not have my FFL but I sure know how much is involved.

Droc101
10-13-2010, 11:06 AM
I've never heard of a consignment sale requiring both parties to be present at the same time. But, I think that's a great way to CYA. I know of several shops where both parties do not need to be present in the shop at the exact same time. Although, DOJ flunkies may have told you they do, I have yet to see that written in the law.

I may not have stated my thought well but, I am positive that I have not misinterpeted the law. You may have misinterpeted my poorly worded post though. I was trying to make the point that some shops treat consignment sales as dealer sales and others treat them as PPTs (without requiring both parties to be present at the same time).

Fro AG's website
How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)

DOJ recognize consignments as a different type of transaction from a PPT.
Thats why we have the seller come in and do the paperwork. under that translation DOJ could potentially have issues with someone selling off roster handguns outside of PPT. I do not recall seeing a consignment transaction exeption to the roster. is there one? is a consignment return counted as this, or is that returning to the original owner?

BostonFan
10-13-2010, 11:18 AM
Am I the only one that feels that the dros fee ($25) should be waived by dealers when purchasing a new gun? Most guns are already 500+ dealers should cover that cost or include it in the price. Sucks when you find a good deal on a gun, then the invoice comes up as $500 for gun, $25 for dros, $40-50 ffl fee then tax at near 10% in the east bay. Otd price becomes $625+ when it should be $550 +/-. At least hide it in the price of ther gun or something so we don't feel like we are getting jacked on firearm purchases.

Bullwinkle
10-13-2010, 11:26 AM
I hear what you're saying--I don't like it either--but face facts... dealers aren't responsible for the gov't having to get more than it's "fair share" by dipping their grubby little paws into your wallet. Want it to stop? Stop voting for idiots.

Honestly, I might not mind all the extra state/local taxes & fees it it went toward something constructive (like I don't know, the creation and maintenance of public shooting ranges in both urban and rural environments); but when the money goes into an anti-gun agenda with an illegal database of registered guns and the like, well, I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say it really P's me off! We have to pay out of our pockets for our own demise.

Droc101
10-13-2010, 11:27 AM
Am I the only one that feels that the dros fee ($25) should be waived by dealers when purchasing a new gun? Most guns are already 500+ dealers should cover that cost or include it in the price. Sucks when you find a good deal on a gun, then the invoice comes up as $500 for gun, $25 for dros, $40-50 ffl fee then tax at near 10% in the east bay. Otd price becomes $625+ when it should be $550 +/-. At least hide it in the price of ther gun or something so we don't feel like we are getting jacked on firearm purchases.

The DROS fee is charged by the state, like sales tax is. You would not expect a store to eat the sales tax, why would you expect them to pay the fee for processing your paperwork. Furthermore the mark up on guns is sh**. We make more off accs and ammo then we do the guns. Most places do not charge an additional paperwork fee if you are purchasing from them. I know we dont.

BostonFan
10-13-2010, 11:42 AM
I can't quote from my phone but I definitely know its what they have to do, just sucks that's all. I know of one places that charges $50 for dros. $25 is their markup. They also charge $100 to do an out of state transfer plus dros and tax. On top of that they won't price match. I understand all fees and from a business owner perspective I definitely see the markup, especially in ths economy, just my frustrations that shops end up sending you out the door with up to $100 in fees just to purchase a firearm. And on top of that we have to wait ten days. That's all I was getting at.

BostonFan
10-13-2010, 11:46 AM
Btw flame away in just a youngin that has a passion for guns but feels they are ridiculously overpriced lol

Droc101
10-13-2010, 11:54 AM
I can't quote from my phone but I definitely know its what they have to do, just sucks that's all. I know of one places that charges $50 for dros. $25 is their markup. They also charge $100 to do an out of state transfer plus dros and tax. On top of that they won't price match. I understand all fees and from a business owner perspective I definitely see the markup, especially in ths economy, just my frustrations that shops end up sending you out the door with up to $100 in fees just to purchase a firearm. And on top of that we have to wait ten days. That's all I was getting at.

Totally see where you are coming from. Like I said, I know that we don't charge anything for a new gun purchased at our location, and all of the places that I have purchased from are the same way. the only time i have ever been charged dealer fees is when I am doing a dealer transfer or a ppt

VTRweasel
10-13-2010, 11:55 AM
You'll be hard pressed to prove that they did not preform another service and include it on the reciept but, you should confront them and inquire about it. If it truely was a PPT (was the gun shipped to them? or, did you meet the seller in their shop?) and they overcharged you, I would strongly recommend against doing anymore bussiness with them.

The seller and I both went to the shop. We both had our HG safety certs. All they did was transfer ownership, give me the 10 second safe handling test and store the gun for ten days.

This was in Campbell. I'm going to call a couple more local shops.

Ultimate
10-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Do the dealers have an organization that represents them? I think if not they should organize and demand less responsibility/costs.

I think a fair fee would be 0..... of course I am dreaming but one has to admit that it sucks that we have to pay to have our rights infringed upon hahaha.

I think 35 dollars for both transfers and PPTs are as fair as it can get for both parties considering the unfair circumstances. Neither should be taxed if the firearm is used since someone already paid the sales tax. Out of state transfers shouldn't be taxed as well like when you buy something from an online merchant that is based in a different state.

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2010, 12:06 PM
Am I the only one that feels that the dros fee ($25) should be waived by dealers when purchasing a new gun? Most guns are already 500+ dealers should cover that cost or include it in the price. Sucks when you find a good deal on a gun, then the invoice comes up as $500 for gun, $25 for dros, $40-50 ffl fee then tax at near 10% in the east bay. Otd price becomes $625+ when it should be $550 +/-. At least hide it in the price of ther gun or something so we don't feel like we are getting jacked on firearm purchases.

You're not the only one who thinks that gunshops should pay you to take their guns. In the case of paying DROS, FFL fees, and sales tax, you must be confused. If a shop is selling you a gun from their inventory, they collect nd keep the sale price of the gun and that's it. They also collect sales tax and DROS fees which are turned over to the State. If a shop is charging you "FFL fees" for a firearm from their inventory, find a new shop. If they are charging you "FFL fees" for a firearm you purchased elsewhere and had shipped to them, sorry, you either need to pay their fee for using their licenses and storefront or get your own FFL.

Do the dealers have an organization that represents them? I think if not they should organize and demand less responsibility/costs.

I think a fair fee would be 0..... of course I am dreaming but one has to admit that it sucks that we have to pay to have our rights infringed upon hahaha.

I think 35 dollars for both transfers and PPTs are as fair as it can get for both parties considering the unfair circumstances. Neither should be taxed if the firearm is used since someone already paid the sales tax. Out of state transfers shouldn't be taxed as well like when you buy something from an online merchant that is based in a different state.

You do understand that $25 out of the $35 goes to the State, right? So, the dealer makes a $10 profit and is responsible for sending the rest of it to the State. As far as buying from out of state goes, paying use tax has been the law for many, many years. Anytime you buy from out of state, you are responsible for declaring the transaction and paying for it when you do your state income tax. This goes for ALL out of state purchases. If you have not been paying taxes on your out of state purchases, you are commiting tax evasion. Since you are implying that this is the case, you might want to contact an attorney before you end up becoming a convicted felon.

Droc101
10-13-2010, 12:13 PM
I think a fair fee would be 0..... of course I am dreaming but one has to admit that it sucks that we have to pay to have our rights infringed upon hahaha.


But the problem lies in the fact that as long as we have to do the brady backgrounds and the storage of all that paperwork for so long it will cost a shop money to allow you to exercise your rights. the only way to offset that cost to keep doors open is to charge a fee. Granted I feel some shops are more fair than others, thats why I am glad I have the freedom to chose where to spend my money. I do not believe that any agency or government has the right to tell a business what they can and cannot charge, however the country that I am a citizen of disagrees. So this is the catch 22 that FFL's and the unlicensed share.

Droc101
10-13-2010, 12:15 PM
You're not the only one who thinks that gunshops should pay you to take their guns. In the case of paying DROS, FFL fees, and sales tax, you must be confused. If a shop is selling you a gun from their inventory, they collect nd keep the sale price of the gun and that's it. They also collect sales tax and DROS fees which are turned over to the State. If a shop is charging you "FFL fees" for a firearm from their inventory, find a new shop. If they are charging you "FFL fees" for a firearm you purchased elsewhere and had shipped to them, sorry, you either need to pay their fee for using their licenses and storefront or get your own FFL.



You do understand that $25 out of the $35 goes to the State, right? So, the dealer makes a $10 profit and is responsible for sending the rest of it to the State. As far as buying from out of state goes, paying use tax has been the law for many, many years. Anytime you buy from out of state, you are responsible for declaring the transaction and paying for it when you do your state income tax. This goes for ALL out of state purchases. If you have not been paying taxes on your out of state purchases, you are commiting tax evasion. Since you are implying that this is the case, you might want to contact an attorney before you end up becoming a convicted felon.

Well Put

BostonFan
10-13-2010, 12:23 PM
What I don't understand is why can't the doj be more like the dmv. Let us do our own private party transfers and such. Take the shop out of the equation so they have to worry about it.

Because lets face the facts, illegal firearms are going to continue to be obtained illegally whether a ffl registers them or not. All this whole process does its make it harder on everyone and it sounds like it hurts the shops the most.

If it was like the dmv they could continue to charge the 25 dros fee and just like a car dealer includes it in the total price if the car a gun shop would do the same. Then for private party transfers you employ fines and such for going past a 10 day period just like with cars. It would be so much easier

Bullwinkle
10-13-2010, 2:00 PM
Ahhh... but your premise is based on a false assumption. You're assuming that the "powers that be" want things to be easier for you. They don't. Since they can't ban guns outright, they instead do whatever they can to make it difficult and/or more expensive to get one, in an attempt to "discourage" gun ownership w/o actually preventing it. Welcome to CA... although the disease is not limited to CA alone (i.e. there are other nat'l level players attempting to do the same things).

BostonFan
10-13-2010, 2:04 PM
No I'm not assuming that they want things to be easier. Hell the things in this thread alone prove the exact opposite. I was just stating my opinion on my idea to make it easier

jessegpresley
10-13-2010, 3:01 PM
I still don't know what the original poster is referring to when they say they charge $45.

If that's a PPT charge then it's breaking the law. If it's an FFL transfer then it's a smokin' deal. But if it's an FFL transfer is it $45 + $25 DROS?

jimsgotthedeal
10-14-2010, 9:01 AM
I still don't know what the original poster is referring to when they say they charge $45.

If that's a PPT charge then it's breaking the law. If it's an FFL transfer then it's a smokin' deal. But if it's an FFL transfer is it $45 + $25 DROS?

I fully respect the opinons expressed in this thread.

BUT.......
Some of you have stated "oh $35 is the max for the transfer"....why yes it is IN SOME CASES (Dealer Transfers), we only charge $25 for those (NO PROFIT FOR US IN THIS FEE)

However there is no limit on "Transfer Only" deals, the DOJ DOES NOT HAVE A SAY IN WHAT WE CHARGE FOR THAT.

Some places do charge more than us but keep in mind that a dealer has to pay for the space your gun will be held in aswell as keeping accurate records of the sale. Some folks may have higher overheads than us.

In my mind the BOTTOM LINE is as I originally stated, it's no fun paying fees!

:cool:


If you need more info on the DOJ rules or How transfers work please call Jim owner of California Derringer 650-218-4185

Angie

Rhythm of Life
10-14-2010, 9:18 AM
Some places do charge more than us but keep in mind that a dealer has to pay for the space your gun will be held in aswell as keeping accurate records of the sale. Some folks may have higher overheads than us.


I understand its a business, but the service you provide does not require skill, it is not labor intensive and its something I would do at cost just to get more gun owners or repeat business.

But then again I don't own my own store, I've just worked for quite a few and unfortunately had the chance to see where they went wrong....

You get customers on accessories, fees and major items are closer to cost, this way its easier to get add-on sales (money makers). But if your not good at selling your products I can understand working on alternate means to get revenue.

jessegpresley
10-14-2010, 9:23 AM
Hi Angie, I'm still not clear on what you're talking about when you say "dealer transfer"; I'm assuming you mean what is traditionally referred to as a Private Party Transfer; when two parties meet at an FFL to transfer ownership of a weapon. Is that you you are referring to? And you charge $25 for this?

And when you said you charge $45 for 1st time buyers, $35 for repeat buyers, you are meaning an FFL transfer, when someone has a firearm shipped to you, and you file the paperwork on the behalf of that person to register the firearm in that persons name?

Bullwinkle
10-14-2010, 9:45 AM
but the service you provide does not require skill,:rofl2:

You don't think it requires skill to understand CA firearm laws?!?

Rhythm of Life
10-14-2010, 9:48 AM
:rofl2:

You don't think it requires skill to understand CA firearm laws?!?

Its not the understanding of laws it has nothing to do with that .... Its the paperwork just like filing taxes (which is a 1000% easier) and I've been doing that since 16, its basic bureaucratic paperwork.

You might be THAT GUY that comes in and makes a transfer take 2 hours because you cannot figure out which table to fill in with what information.

kmca
10-14-2010, 9:58 AM
I fully respect the opinons expressed in this thread.

BUT.......
Some of you have stated "oh $35 is the max for the transfer"....why yes it is IN SOME CASES (Dealer Transfers), we only charge $25 for those (NO PROFIT FOR US IN THIS FEE)

However there is no limit on "Transfer Only" deals, the DOJ DOES NOT HAVE A SAY IN WHAT WE CHARGE FOR THAT.

Some places do charge more than us but keep in mind that a dealer has to pay for the space your gun will be held in aswell as keeping accurate records of the sale. Some folks may have higher overheads than us.

In my mind the BOTTOM LINE is as I originally stated, it's no fun paying fees!

:cool:


If you need more info on the DOJ rules or How transfers work please call Jim owner of California Derringer 650-218-4185

Angie

Seems to me, that we're stumbling over terminology.

Droc101
10-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Seems to me, that we're stumbling over terminology.

Agreed. Angie, I might suggest re-reading my earlier post or better yet here is the Attorney Generals FAQ:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#8
How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)

This should clear up the verbage.

dkthree
10-14-2010, 12:17 PM
Not sure if I'm answering the right question, but.... the last new gun, shipped in from out of state, transfer I did, I paid $25 transfer and $25 dros. $50 out the door.

Droc101
10-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Not sure if I'm answering the right question, but.... the last new gun, shipped in from out of state, transfer I did, I paid $25 transfer and $25 dros. $50 out the door.

Thats really cheap. (That is considered a dealer transfer.)

jimsgotthedeal
10-14-2010, 3:10 PM
Agreed. Angie, I might suggest re-reading my earlier post or better yet here is the Attorney Generals FAQ:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#8


This should clear up the verbage.

I don't claim to know all the "VERBAGE"

If you dont undersatnd my meaning because I said tomatoe and you say tomatoe just call my DAD.

Thanks!