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moulton
06-03-2006, 8:26 PM
Is .223 with a ballistic tip good for antelope? I applied for a antelope tag in Montana and hopefuly will win it in a lottery. I also plan on getting a CA legal Ar-15 over the summer.

tcrpe
06-03-2006, 8:37 PM
Is .223 with a ballistic tip good for antelope? I applied for a antelope tag in Montana and hopefuly will win it in a lottery. I also plan on getting a CA legal Ar-15 over the summer.

There is no minimum caliber for big game in Montana (like .25 min in WY), but from a practical point of view . . . . .

moulton
06-03-2006, 8:39 PM
....so you are saying I should see if I can borrow my grampas 30.06?

tcrpe
06-03-2006, 8:44 PM
....so you are saying I should see if I can borrow my grampas 30.06?

That would be better, with a lighter bullet. People say that with antelope, you're shooting from 400 yards or so, but if you actually put down the beer and get out of the pickup to sneak up on (stalk) them, 100 to 200 yards is not uncommon.

They have a great looking hide.

Seriously, though, .223 is way too small for a clean kill, er, harvest.

James R.
06-03-2006, 8:44 PM
Is .223 with a ballistic tip good for antelope? I applied for a antelope tag in Montana and hopefuly will win it in a lottery. I also plan on getting a CA legal Ar-15 over the summer.

There's what works and then there's what's humane. If you have access to something with more power I'd urge you to move that way. If you were asking this about an AR-10 ok maybe, but 223 Rem IMHO is pretty much for the bi-pedal vermin and the Coyote here and there ;-)

Regards,

James R.

HillBilly
06-03-2006, 8:45 PM
Yes!

.223 for antelope (or much of anything bigger than a Coyote) is borderline at best IMO. Hunt smart and humane. 30-06 will ensure a clean quick kill, and the possibility to make a nice shot at more distance. Thats what it is all about.


ETA: jamesR....we posted pretty much the same message at the same time. are you reading my mind via some alien implant?!?

jtyoshi
06-03-2006, 8:45 PM
223 is for tiny furry varmits
Find something in 308 :D

moulton
06-03-2006, 8:49 PM
what are my options in .308... I want somthing I can use for hunting and as an evil balck rifle... has to be semi-auto. Fal's?

James R.
06-03-2006, 8:57 PM
ETA: jamesR....we posted pretty much the same message at the same time. are you reading my mind via some alien implant?!?

We must share those genes for common sense ;-)

Regards,

James R.

five.five-six
06-03-2006, 9:10 PM
what are my options in .308... I want somthing I can use for hunting and as an evil balck rifle... has to be semi-auto. Fal's?

ar-10, m14 socom or scout.. you could get a ruger m77 in .308 they are prety reasonable I have one in .300 wm and it will put down anything in north america...except I would probably went more for a grisley

moulton
06-03-2006, 9:14 PM
ar-10, m14 socom or scout.. you could get a ruger m77 in .308 they are prety reasonable I have one in .300 wm and it will put down anything in north america...except I would probably went more for a grisley

I absolutely detest rugers.... :mad:

Where can I find CA legal FAL's?

Matt-man
06-03-2006, 10:16 PM
what are my options in .308... I want somthing I can use for hunting and as an evil balck rifle... has to be semi-auto. Fal's?

6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC upper receiver.

moulton
06-03-2006, 10:36 PM
for the price of a 6.8 or 6.5 upper I can get a savage bolt gun in .308:(

EBWhite
06-04-2006, 1:17 AM
Time to get the Mosin Nagant out or something cheap like that. Those animals like the commie x54 round :-)

chris
06-04-2006, 1:31 AM
i would a 6.5 sweedish myself and you cannot lose 30-06. i would use any .223 or 22-250 on varmits and coyotes.

Ford8N
06-04-2006, 5:42 AM
what are my options in .308... I want somthing I can use for hunting and as an evil balck rifle... has to be semi-auto. Fal's?


FAL is good

Ryoushi
06-04-2006, 7:08 AM
The man asked if he could hunt pronghorn with a CA legal AR he wants to buy this summer. The 6.8 SPC will work great out to 300 yds with the 110 grain Hornady V Max and 6.5 Grendel will work even better at even longer ranges. Quality 6.8 uppers aren't any more expensive than a quality 5.56 upper.

And I know you guys are proud of your cheap surplus Mosins but really, why would anybody that can borrow grandpa's 30-06 want to lug one of those around? Ditto for the FAL.

A 6.5 Swede is always welcome anywhere though.

moulton
06-04-2006, 7:21 AM
I Might be able to borrow the 30.06 but its a war relic from WWI. M1917 Enfield with sights choped off and put in a sporter hunting stock :D . I also Have a Mosin Nagant hungarian m-44 but im not to impressed with accuracy...maybe if I can get a scout scope mount and long eye releaf scope that would do... What are some links to CA legal FAL companies:D

blacklisted
06-04-2006, 4:39 PM
If you're willing to buy a FAL, why not buy something more suited for hunting, like a Remington Model 700? With a fixed mag semi auto out in the field, I could see a jam being a potential problem (not likely, but with the fixed mag is it harder to clear jams).

Most FALs are expensive, and are getting more and more expensive. If you're hunting in Wyoming, you'd be able to drop the mag on the FAL, but DSA (one of the CA legal FAL companies) welds the mag in basically (I don't know about the others).

If you REALLY wanted to use your CA legal AR, you could get a 6.5 Grendel upper. Once you are in Wyoming, you could put it in a free state configuration. I'm not sure about the law there, some states require a 5 round or less mag when hunting (these are available from Alexander Arms IIRC).

moulton
06-04-2006, 4:48 PM
I have come to my sences and decided to go for one of these just for $&@&$ and giggles: http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=9&zenid=8b214b4b491d78324986ee1243c10ef3 .... and borrow my grampa's 30.06, or get a scope mount on my mosin:p

cornholio1
06-04-2006, 5:06 PM
Are AR's legal to hunt with in CA? Mines chambered in 7.62x39.

Ryoushi
06-04-2006, 7:42 PM
Are AR's legal to hunt with in CA? Mines chambered in 7.62x39.

If it is registered as an assault weapon you can only legally transport it to and from a range or some such official shooting event. You can't just drive out to the boonies and start blasting soda cans for that matter either.

If it is a fixed mag offlist lower it better be a 5 rd. fixed mag if you want to go hunting with it.

HillBilly
06-04-2006, 8:11 PM
My buddy hunts with his camo stock M1A scout with a nice SA scope. He loves it, and although I have a bit more faith in my A-Bolt's accuracy out past 250 yards, but he has never has any accurancy or mechanical issues. I may even grab on of these scouts soon.

My family is full of generational hunters, and most everyone I personally know who hunts favors the .308 over anything, with 30-06 in close second. I personally have a liking for 7MM mag:D

Joe
06-04-2006, 9:06 PM
If it is registered as an assault weapon you can only legally transport it to and from a range or some such official shooting event. You can't just drive out to the boonies and start blasting soda cans for that matter either.

If it is a fixed mag offlist lower it better be a 5 rd. fixed mag if you want to go hunting with it.

you cant hunt with registered assault weapons?

if its an off list lower why would you suggest a fixed 5 rd mag?

moulton
06-04-2006, 10:02 PM
I have gone bunny hunting with 7.62x39 from a SKS... It wasnt that great at long distance but good kill under 50 yds.

CTT2
06-05-2006, 12:42 AM
There is no magazine limitation for hunting, so you can have 10 rnds. Heard stories of kills of white tails with 6.8 not sure of the range though. And if 6.8 can do it 6.5 Grendal should also be able to do it. If anyones seen or heard a kill with 110 Vmax I'd like to know the size of the game, distance, and condition of the bullet recovered. Wondering if moving to a heavier 130 grn bullet is more viable.

Ryoushi
06-05-2006, 6:17 AM
you cant hunt with registered assault weapons?

if its an off list lower why would you suggest a fixed 5 rd mag?

If your rifle has been registered as an assault weapon in Calif. there are strict transport rules. You can only transport them to and from the range. So unless you call those Turkey shoots some ranges have huntng then no, you can't go hunting with your assault rifle.

I might be mistaken on the 10rd magazines. For some reason the number five sticks in my mind when deer hunting in Calif. I use a Marlin 30-30 for most of my hunting so I never have had to worry about clips.

6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel have taken wild pigs so they should work just fine on thin skinned gaem like pronghorn.

Joe
06-05-2006, 8:45 AM
If your rifle has been registered as an assault weapon in Calif. there are strict transport rules. You can only transport them to and from the range. So unless you call those Turkey shoots some ranges have huntng then no, you can't go hunting with your assault rifle.

I might be mistaken on the 10rd magazines. For some reason the number five sticks in my mind when deer hunting in Calif. I use a Marlin 30-30 for most of my hunting so I never have had to worry about clips.

6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel have taken wild pigs so they should work just fine on thin skinned gaem like pronghorn.

wow, i didnt know that about assault weapons. i seriously hope they never list.

Ryoushi
06-05-2006, 9:04 AM
You know there are so many better firearms out there for hunting and the fixed mag really makes an AR a clumsy, even dangerous gun. So me, I hope DOJ lists and I also hope Roberti Roos goes down in flames eventually.

glen avon
06-05-2006, 9:13 AM
If it is registered as an assault weapon you can only legally transport it to and from a range or some such official shooting event. You can't just drive out to the boonies and start blasting soda cans for that matter either.

that is sooooooooooooo wrong.

you may possess and shoot your AW at a range or on any other legal area where AWs are allowed. BLM land allows AWs. so hunt, blast, or pick yer derriere, you can do it with an AW if you follow whatever other rules are out there such as county ordinances.

If it is a fixed mag offlist lower it better be a 5 rd. fixed mag if you want to go hunting with it.

that is total BS. where did you read that?

skywlkr
06-05-2006, 10:23 AM
Below is the contents of an email I received from Russell Mohr (of the CA Dept. Fish and Game, head of Deer Management in CA). This is his answer to my question about magazine capacity for hunting.
Dear Mr. (my last name),

The only restrictions addressed in Fish and Game Code or Regulations pertain to
the maximum capacity of shotguns being no more than three. There are no specific
restrictions regarding "rifle" or rifle magazine capacity, instead that
is dictated by Penal Code. While I am not in law enforcement, and therefore not
an expert in this area I believe you are correct, in that, rifle/pistol magazines
may not have a capacity exceeding 10 rounds. I did some research and I believe
this is addressed in Penal Code Section 12020.

Specifically, PC Section 12020(c)(25) defines a "large-capacity magazine"
as an ammunition feeding device capable of accepting more than 10 rounds. It does
not include or apply to magazines which have permanently been altered so that it
cannot hold more than 10 rounds; .22 caliber tube feeding devices; or tubular magazines
common to lever-action firearms. At this point, Fish and Game Code does not further
restrict the magazine capacity of rifles, so Penal Code would take precedence.

So the short answer to your question is: rifles used for attempting to take, or
taking a big game animal (that means hunting) in California may not have a magazine
capacity exceeding 10 as set by Penal Code. Hope this information helps.

Sincerely,

Russell Mohr
Associate Wildlife Biologist
California Department of Fish and Game
Wildlife Programs Branch
Deer Management Program
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
(916) 445-3550
fax: (916) 445-4048
E-mail: RMohr@dfg.ca.gov

JPglee1
06-05-2006, 10:48 AM
223 is for tiny furry varmits


Then why are we using them on big hairless varmints in the sand box?

A .223 will kill a deer when well placed, out to 150yds or so no problems, especially if you use some softpoint or V-max style ammo.


JP

glen avon
06-05-2006, 10:54 AM
Below is the contents of an email I received from Russell Mohr (of the CA Dept. Fish and Game, head of Deer Management in CA). This is his answer to my question about magazine capacity for hunting.

that is very interesting! but mistaken in part. there is a cap restriction for SGs, to be sure, but none for 30-rd mags. it's true.

if you can find a 30-rd mag for your non-aw, you can hunt with it all you please (subject to any local regulation, if any).

at least one l ranger in D14 has no problem hunting deer with an AR.

JPglee1
06-05-2006, 10:57 AM
that is very interesting! but mistaken in part. there is a cap restriction for SGs, to be sure, but none for 30-rd mags. it's true.

if you can find a 30-rd mag for your non-aw, you can hunt with it all you please (subject to any local regulation, if any).

at least one l ranger in D14 has no problem hunting deer with an AR.

+1, shotgun has a restriction, rifle does not. That DOJ dude misinterpreted the AW/Hicap law in his determination.

I know a guy that routinely hunts with a M1A and a 20rd mag.


JP

tcrpe
06-05-2006, 12:43 PM
A .223 will kill a deer when well placed, out to 150yds or so no problems, especially if you use some softpoint or V-max style ammo.


JP


Yes, a .223 may kill a deer, but in my humble opinion, it would not be used by a responsible hunter.

grammaton76
06-05-2006, 3:04 PM
Then why are we using them on big hairless varmints in the sand box?

A .223 will kill a deer when well placed, out to 150yds or so no problems, especially if you use some softpoint or V-max style ammo.

The military is using it in the sandbox because the current doctrine is to maim and incapacitate, not necessarily kill. An AR will successfully create much pain and suffering, and stands an excellent chance of death. A single shot of FMJ also has a fairly decent chance of survival with prompt medical treatment. The suffering is acceptable because the person may pull through (preferably consuming the enemy's resources in the process).

When you shoot at an animal, there is no reason to make it suffer - you want it dead, period. Not maimed, wounded, etc.

Ryoushi
06-05-2006, 3:28 PM
I must apologize for spreading BS earlier. I have never really looked into the penal code itself. to see specifically if an assault wepon can be carried into the woods. I guess the correct answer is if your on public land and whoever in charge of the land specifically ppermits the use of such firearms it's OK.

Here's how the pertinent law reads

(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276, 12276.1, 12276.5, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1.

Maddog5150
06-05-2006, 7:32 PM
If your going to spend $1200- $2000 on a cal legal fal or $800+ on an AR why not just spend $400 on a remington 710 combo. Yea they are bottom of the line hunting guns but they work. All the money you are going to spend on the trip (gas, tags, and various hunting gear) could turn into misery because you HAD to look cool with an evil looking AR black rifle and the caliber you used juse wounds, and makes you track all day and maybe lose your game.
$400 gets you either a 30-06 or 300 win mag 710 combo
$550 gets you a howa combo
$600 gets you a vanguard combo
all of these come with scope and the remington is already zeroed out of the box.

moulton
06-05-2006, 8:07 PM
I looked at the 710 and found it to be a POS:mad: ....

HillBilly
06-18-2006, 7:47 PM
Either way you go, I beg of you...Don't just grab your gramps' 30-06 or whatever you decide on and head out. Really spend the time at the range to get to know the rifle. Sight it in, get the feel of the recoil down, and make sure it is reliable and accurate, then stick to your limits with the rifle.

Since you mention hunting out of state, I am not sure if you have taken the CA hunters course, but I would highly recommend you do if you have not.

Good Hunting!

moulton
06-18-2006, 9:26 PM
I took the hunters course with my brother back in January and I passed the test %100 :D . I should be going to my grampa's and get the rifle in august then I can practice with the rifle for 2 months before heading off to Montana in October. That all depends on if we get the tags :o :cool:

tankerman
07-02-2006, 8:09 AM
I think hunting with a bolt gun makes most hunters think about their shots more, also I am more of a traditionalist, don't really see AR's and the like as sporting guns. Any semi-auto rifles for that matter. I think it contributes to "spray and pray" behavior. Maybe for a varminter/coyote gun, seems to be more like range time than hunting.

blacklisted
07-02-2006, 2:44 PM
I think hunting with a bolt gun makes most hunters think about their shots more, also I am more of a traditionalist, don't really see AR's and the like as sporting guns. Any semi-auto rifles for that matter. I think it contributes to "spray and pray" behavior. Maybe for a varminter/coyote gun, seems to be more like range time than hunting.

It only contributes to that behavior if you let it.

tankerman
07-02-2006, 6:09 PM
PROFOUND, very PROFOUND

five.five-six
07-02-2006, 8:08 PM
Either way you go, I beg of you...Don't just grab your gramps' 30-06 or whatever you decide on and head out. Really spend the time at the range to get to know the rifle. Sight it in, get the feel of the recoil down, and make sure it is reliable and accurate, then stick to your limits with the rifle.

Since you mention hunting out of state, I am not sure if you have taken the CA hunters course, but I would highly recommend you do if you have not.

Good Hunting!


+1 on hunter safty course
-1 on fal
-2 on ar-15
+1 on gramps gun
+ 1/2 on ar-10
+2 on rem 700
too bad you hate rugar.. mine works great

have you considered a mauser, they are more than powerfull enough.. not sure about puting optics on one but you can get one for around $150


what ever you decide put at least a few boxes through it before you go

blacklisted
07-03-2006, 11:24 PM
PROFOUND, very PROFOUND

Isn't it? :rolleyes: