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View Full Version : handgun vs. carbine, when CCW is not possible


subway
06-03-2006, 11:36 AM
Just curious.....for folks who live in places wher no one can even dream of getting a concealed carry permit, what are the advantages of a handgun over a carbine? The performance advantages of a rifle are well known compared to pistols, and the main advantage of the pistol is the ability to shove it in your pocket (holster, whatever....) But when the concealed carry option is not part of the comparison, what advantages remain for the pistol? (In my personal evaluation, handguns are kinda pointless if not concealable, so I have a carbine for "home protection.") But what do you guys think?

Jicko
06-03-2006, 11:43 AM
I personally find that in CQB situations, going into a room or something like that.... a pistol may be easier to handle and move around with than even a 14.5" or 11" carbine....

But then in point-&-shoot situation, nothing can beat a shotgun.... 00buck.... roughly equal 9 rounds of 9mm....

The Soup Nazi
06-03-2006, 11:46 AM
You can bash someone in the head with the butt of your carbine when you run out of ammo a lot better than you can pistol whip someone.

Josh
06-03-2006, 1:25 PM
Just curious.....for folks who live in places wher no one can even dream of getting a concealed carry permit, what are the advantages of a handgun over a carbine? The performance advantages of a rifle are well known compared to pistols, and the main advantage of the pistol is the ability to shove it in your pocket (holster, whatever....) But when the concealed carry option is not part of the comparison, what advantages remain for the pistol? (In my personal evaluation, handguns are kinda pointless if not concealable, so I have a carbine for "home protection.") But what do you guys think?


Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

subway
06-03-2006, 3:21 PM
Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

Thanks, but why not just have another rifle as the backup. If concealment is either not legal, like here; or not an issue, like at home, why bother with a pistol, why not another rifle / carbine?

blkA4alb
06-03-2006, 3:40 PM
Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

Thanks, but why not just have another rifle as the backup. If concealment is either not legal, like here; or not an issue, like at home, why bother with a pistol, why not another rifle / carbine?
Well I think it has to do with the convenience issue. As fun as it is for the first day walking around your house with a rifle slung over your back (carbine or not) does get old (trust me, it was my first day with my AR :D .) A pistol is just easier to walk around/wear for extended periods compared to a rifle.

NorCal MedTac
06-03-2006, 4:01 PM
Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

+1 on that.

BigAL
06-03-2006, 4:07 PM
Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

Thanks, but why not just have another rifle as the backup. If concealment is either not legal, like here; or not an issue, like at home, why bother with a pistol, why not another rifle / carbine?

The idea is to have a carbine as your main weapon and a pistol on you as well. Should the rifle fail you immediately transition to the pistol to continue addressing targets. The only thing a pistol has going for it is it can be concealed and easily worn on the person, while a rifle is pretty obvious and must be slung.

WallySparx
06-03-2006, 4:10 PM
what then, is the role of the pistol caliber carbine, other than cheaper practice? i've always thought i wanted something along the lines of a ruger pc-9, but then think my 9mm pistol works my way to my sks anyways. granted, practicality isn't always the best reason to get a gun, but it is a damned good one.

Josh
06-03-2006, 4:57 PM
Its a backup, and lets you fight your way to a rifle.

Thanks, but why not just have another rifle as the backup. If concealment is either not legal, like here; or not an issue, like at home, why bother with a pistol, why not another rifle / carbine?

alright, when you need to you walk and run around with 2 rifles.

Ill take a rifle and a hangun.

A handgun is easy to secure out of the way and yet still have it quickly deployable.

Try to do that with a rifle while using another one.

Josh
06-03-2006, 5:00 PM
what then, is the role of the pistol caliber carbine, other than cheaper practice? i've always thought i wanted something along the lines of a ruger pc-9, but then think my 9mm pistol works my way to my sks anyways. granted, practicality isn't always the best reason to get a gun, but it is a damned good one.

Few reasons for pistol calibers in a long arm.
1. ammo, you can use the same ammo all around.
2. more powerfull than a handgun with better control but not as large as a full rifle, the MP-5 is a good example.
3. for those that need it, noise supression.
4. they are just damned fun to shoot

BigAL
06-03-2006, 5:48 PM
Few reasons for pistol calibers in a long arm.
1. ammo, you can use the same ammo all around.
2. more powerfull than a handgun with better control but not as large as a full rifle, the MP-5 is a good example.
3. for those that need it, noise supression.
4. they are just damned fun to shoot

All good points there. Definitely a trend away from sub guns to ARs going on in law enforcement. Was just talking to a SWAT officer at todays IDPA match and they just made the switch from 10mm MP5s to M4 config ARs.

PreyDrive
06-08-2006, 4:06 AM
Initially I wasn't going to respond I was just ammusing myself with this "rifle as a home defence weapon" issue. But I havn't seen Naivety like this in a while
First off who ever said a carbine had to be in a pistol caliber??? The M4 carbine, is a compact version of the M16A2 assault rifle with a collapsible stock and shorter barrel same .223 cartridge.

Using a "Carbine" or a rifle for "Home Defence" is a joke unless you live in some kind of 10,000sqft. mansion with 81x50ft rooms. Rifles and even "Carbines are unweildy inside a house, even the shortest allowable 16" barrel, like my M1A Socom, is to long for indoor operations. not to mention over penatration: my rifles would put a hole through the intruder, through the wall and into the kid across the street. besides rifles weren't developed for point-n-shoot, it's all about:target aquisition, sight alignment, sight picture, breathing and trigger control.

Pistols however where desined to be a Defensive Weapon with the point-and shoot premise. just about anyone can hit a man sized target at 25m(81ft) which is the most common "furthest distance" the average shooter engages targets at the range. After that distance now you can bust out your "carbine" and go to work since you now have the room to manuver and aquire targets without getting dead.

And if by "defend your home" you mean in an L.A. riot, Hurricane Katrina, Mad Max, Red Dawn senario, (which is, by the way, why we own tactical carbines) where you'll be spending most of your time "defending" out doors in the open, then F***ING '86 the CCW law, the Hi-cap law, the AWB law; because you'll be out there fighting your *** off with no legislature or michael moore to say BOOOH WHOO about what your strappin' or what the"rate-of-fire" is on your pistol gripped, flashed suppressed, baynetted, grenade launching, laser pointing, sawed-off, 300rnd carrying .50cal BMG Springfield Sig Colt Saur Armory M-9000-A4 Uzimattic. And in that senario I'll have my "carbine" and I'll be concealing my pistol any way. Best of both worlds + a little HollyWood. Haha. LOL

P.S. why shotguns are bad home defence weapons; even In a clean shoot (justifiable homicide) you'll be cleaning up the mess, which can include: blood, hair, teeth, eyes, guts, poopy and all sorts of other human detrius. if you wanna see what real bullet wounds look like check out ogrish.com it's not as heroic and pretty as HollyWood.

Josh
06-08-2006, 10:58 AM
I used to think the same thing about using .223 for indoors (penetration). But alot of swat teams are switching over to the carbine.

After looking around apparently .223 in the lighter grains does some wierd stuff after going through a person or dry wall, mostly begin to fragment or yaw. It will penetrate less than a 9mm round.

maxicon
06-08-2006, 11:18 AM
Aside from all the handling issues, the main reason for me to use a handgun as my primary home defense weapon is that I can use it one-handed.

I can open doors, turn on/off lights, use a flashlight that's not mounted to my gun, lock/unlock doors, dial a phone, do whatever I need to do, while still having my defensive weapon ready.

Slings help with that on carbines or shotguns, but they're too clumsy for me in close quarters when half asleep. Maybe it's just me, but when I practice that way, I'm always bumping them into things.

YMMV, as always, but that's what works best for me.

max

BigAL
06-08-2006, 11:23 AM
Properly held, a 16" carbine will barely be longer than a pistol held in a 2 handed firing grip.

VeryCoolCat
06-09-2006, 12:22 PM
P.S. why shotguns are bad home defence weapons; even In a clean shoot (justifiable homicide) you'll be cleaning up the mess, which can include: blood, hair, teeth, eyes, guts, poopy and all sorts of other human detrius. if you wanna see what real bullet wounds look like check out ogrish.com it's not as heroic and pretty as HollyWood.

I'll stick with a shotgun tyvm. If the intruder has a firearm, even with a handgun or any carbine rifle you will most likely be shot at or even shot in the time you can get 3 shots off to take down an intruder let alone a methed or coked intruder.

Plus after you've put someone down with a handgun doesn't necesarily mean the threat has been removed, they can still fire while on the ground.

One shot from a shotgun... and (1) the intruder is not getting up (2) and if they live are lucky to be alive. (3) You have less of a chance of overpenetration.

I would rather deal one shot of 00' (heh that rhymes :D)