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Dragon
10-11-2010, 10:04 PM
What side arms are used by the US Special Forces team ? ARMY,NAVY,AIR FORCE,and Marines.

85FourEyedGT
10-11-2010, 10:31 PM
I believe SEALS use the Sig 22x series

gumby
10-11-2010, 10:35 PM
Glocks are also in use.

Plisk
10-11-2010, 10:40 PM
MEUSOCs are used a bit too.

Günter
10-11-2010, 10:42 PM
USSOCOM - H&K Mk23 Mod 0: .45 ACP
US Navy SEALs - SIG Sauer P226 (Mk24): 9x19mm
USMC Force Recon - MEU(SOC) 1911: .45 ACP

I guess everyone else in the armed forces uses the: Beretta M9, M9A1 (USMC), M11 (P228), SIG P229R DAK .40 (USCG). I've also heard that there are some folks in the Air Force with Glock 19s.

Plisk
10-11-2010, 10:47 PM
HK Mk.23 is no longer in service anywhere. Last ones were the SEALs and they don't have any.

Günter
10-11-2010, 11:14 PM
HK Mk.23 is no longer in service anywhere. Last ones were the SEALs and they don't have any.

I thought so too, but than I watched some pretty recent Beretta Ad and saw one at 1:54, maybe they havn't thrown all of them away yet.

eKEE1HoHt3M

Colt-45
10-11-2010, 11:16 PM
Weren't some of these guys using HK45's as well?

Dragon
10-11-2010, 11:24 PM
So ,Glock is not so popular with the military.

Maddog5150
10-11-2010, 11:26 PM
Towards the end of infantry school I asked my drill sgt what he carried. He is SF and he plainly said, "the M9." I asked why since he could carry anything he wanted. I asked about the Mk23. He laughed and jokingly said, "oh the crew served pistol? That thing is huge. Yeah some guys carry the hk, some carry colts. I just carry the M9. I kill anything I shoot at anyways..." Drill sgt was a crazy/scary dude.

KillZone45
10-11-2010, 11:34 PM
Towards the end of infantry school I asked my drill sgt what he carried. He is SF and he plainly said, "the M9." I asked why since he could carry anything he wanted. I asked about the Mk23. He laughed and jokingly said, "oh the crew served pistol? That thing is huge. Yeah some guys carry the hk, some carry colts. I just carry the M9. I kill anything I shoot at anyways..." Drill sgt was a crazy/scary dude.

I kill anything I shoot at anyways...

That is rad, one confident dude.

Plisk
10-11-2010, 11:39 PM
I thought so too, but than I watched some pretty recent Beretta Ad and saw one at 1:54, maybe they havn't thrown all of them away yet.

eKEE1HoHt3M

Could easily be old footage. It was in the past 5+ years that it disappeared.

Günter
10-12-2010, 12:04 AM
Could easily be old footage. It was in the past 5+ years that it disappeared.

I agree that they may have probably stopped their use just recently. I noticed H&K just recently (3 months ago) discontinued their production for Mark 23s.

elSquid
10-12-2010, 12:08 AM
So ,Glock is not so popular with the military.

Don't say this around 1911 enthusiasts, but Delta/CAG/??? supposedly bought a bunch of Glock 22s.

:TFH:

-- Michael

NiteQwill
10-12-2010, 12:54 AM
The folks I ran into... Glocks. But I also saw an M9 and several 1911s.

Colt
10-12-2010, 6:04 AM
From what I understand, individuals can pretty much use what they want, and it will often depend on the mission.

1911Operator
10-12-2010, 6:24 AM
they use sling shots with ball bearings :D

sd1023x
10-12-2010, 9:46 AM
US SF....I spy a grock......

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8818/armymil5411820091027091.jpg

Fixed it for you..

So, SPRINGFIELD XD is not so popular with the military.

;)

timmyb21
10-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Could the US SF guy be CIA? I know a bunch of those guys are in theatre right now too. Could explain the Glock.

uzigalil
10-12-2010, 10:09 AM
I heard, the gunstore guy told me, maybe there CIA thats why they have glocks,I read it in a magazine, this blog says that.,blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Veggie
10-12-2010, 10:13 AM
I thought soldiers weren't supposed to wear subdued flags?

Ascout
10-12-2010, 10:17 AM
If there's a lot of water involved, .357 revolvers can often be found as well.

sd1023x
10-12-2010, 10:56 AM
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/513/ezl8d1.jpg

NiteQwill
10-12-2010, 10:56 AM
We wear subdued or IR flags in the field. As much as we are proud to show out colors, they also stick out like a sore thumb.

Kodemonkey
10-12-2010, 11:10 AM
The military selects weapons for a myriad of reasons, most of which aren't congruent to my needs. I honestly could care less what the military selects as a weapon as long it is the most effective at taking out the enemy before the enemy takes out our men and women who serve our country.

From most of the people I have talked to in the Military, a handgun is usually used only when everything else has gone to hell.

The Original Godfather
10-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Towards the end of infantry school I asked my drill sgt what he carried. He is SF and he plainly said, "the M9." I asked why since he could carry anything he wanted. I asked about the Mk23. He laughed and jokingly said, "oh the crew served pistol? That thing is huge. Yeah some guys carry the hk, some carry colts. I just carry the M9. I kill anything I shoot at anyways..." Drill sgt was a crazy/scary dude.


This ^^^


I am of the belief that if you are SF, then you should be able to take a target down regardless; it's just a matter of proper training.


That being said, I prefer a SIG ;)

cineski
10-12-2010, 11:16 AM
If I were to go to war and had a choice, it would be a Glock 10mm ;-)

Shenaniguns
10-12-2010, 11:21 AM
So ,Glock is not so popular with the military.


How can they be if they don't want to turn over their licensing to Uncle Sam to produce them.

RANDO
10-12-2010, 11:32 AM
not SF but in the coast guard i used a sig 229 dak and M9

Heiko
10-12-2010, 11:58 AM
How can they be if they don't want to turn over their licensing to Uncle Sam to produce them.

Are you suggesting that the US government wanted to take over manufacturing of Glocks under license or that Glock did not build a factory here like Beretta did to win the M9 contract?

Shenaniguns
10-12-2010, 12:03 PM
Are you suggesting that the US government wanted to take over manufacturing of Glocks under license or that Glock did not build a factory here like Beretta did to win the M9 contract?

This is what our gov wants if Glock actually won a contract with them, at times of war our military needs the ability to manufacture as many firearms as needed wherever it can in the states.

k1dude
10-12-2010, 12:11 PM
I believe most of the special ops community gets to use whatever weapon they wish for any particular mission. The mission determines the weapons used.

If I was out humping the Hindu Kush, I would want the lightest and most reliable weapon available. That includes ammo. 100 rounds of 9mm weighs WAAAY less than 100 rounds of .45. I would also prefer a plastic frame for the weight savings.

Now if I were in the Coast Guard boarding drug boats, I would want a big steel framed .45 since I don't have to hump it over mountains. I would want knock-down power over all else.

Shenaniguns
10-12-2010, 12:13 PM
I believe most of the special ops community gets to use whatever weapon they wish for any particular mission. The mission determines the weapons used.

If I was out humping the Hindu Kush, I would want the lightest and most reliable weapon available. That includes ammo. 100 rounds of 9mm weighs WAAAY less than 100 rounds of .45. I would also prefer a plastic frame for the weight savings.

Now if I were in the Coast Guard boarding drug boats, I would want a big steel framed .45 since I don't have to hump it over mountains. I would want knock-down power over all else.


What's that?

Rhythm of Life
10-12-2010, 12:18 PM
What's that?

Its how much of a backflip your target does. ;)

Shenaniguns
10-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Its how much of a backflip your target does. ;)


I must be doing it wrong, my target never backflipped :(

Heiko
10-12-2010, 12:23 PM
This is what our gov wants if Glock actually won a contract with them, at times of war our military needs the ability to manufacture as many firearms as needed wherever it can in the states.

Interesting. I didn't think the gub'ment would actually get into the business of manufacturing small arms even in times of great need. Are the M9s only manufactured by Beretta or are there version made by the military? I just recall that when they were competing for the new sidearm that Beretta sealed the deal by agreeing to build a factory here.

k1dude
10-12-2010, 12:25 PM
What's that?

Read the history of why the .45 was adopted by the military based on their experiences during the Spanish-American War in the Philippines. In a nutshell, the .45 auto was adopted over less powerful revolvers for it's ability to knock a drugged/wrapped enemy combatant down.

Jason.lee740
10-12-2010, 12:30 PM
Knock down power is basically the ability of a gun to stop/disable a person in as few shots as possible.

Going along with that, most people that believes the above likes to shoot .45 in their pistols stating bigger rounds are better than 9mm or othe smaller rounds at stopping people.

I for one believe in shot placement.

It doesn't matter what you shoot, it could be .22 or .38, or 9mm or whatever, as long as you place your shots well.

Hope that helps.

Toast
10-12-2010, 1:41 PM
I would want knock-down power over all else.

That's what rifles are for :p , all pistol rounds are underpowered.

advocatusdiaboli
10-12-2010, 3:03 PM
Now if I were in the Coast Guard boarding drug boats, I would want a big steel framed .45 .40 S&W, .357 Sig, or 10mm since I don't have to hump it over mountains. I would want knock-down power over all else.

There fixed it for you for reality in muzzle energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy)

ianS
10-12-2010, 3:15 PM
Since most other people are speculating.....

To the best of my knowledge from what I believe are pretty reliable sources


-US Navy SEALs: SIG Sauer P226R 9mm (rumours a variant of the HK USP/C .45 with threaded barrel has been swirling for years. They no longer use the MK23 or any S&W revolvers)
-US Army CAG (formerly Delta): Glocks probably Gen3 G22. Some may still carry custom 1911's
-US Army Green Berets: Beretta M9
-British SAS: SIG Sauer P226 9mm
-Canada Joint Task Force2: SIG Sauer 9mm's
-Australia SAS: BHP and HK USP
-Germany: KSK Kommando Spezialkräfte: HK USP Tactical (probably 9mm)
GSG-9 (police/counter-terror): Glock 17
-Austria: EKO Cobra: Glock 17
-France GIGN: mix of 9mm SIG P series/SP2022 and recently 9mm Glocks
-Norway FSK: Glock 17
Marinejegerkommandoen: HK USP
-Czech 601st Special Forces: Glock 17
-Israel Sayeret: Glock 17
-S. Korea 707th: HK USP9 Tactical

Droc101
10-12-2010, 3:18 PM
http://www.ryanmcbain.com/forums/images/smilies/beatdeadhorse.gif 9v40v45 blahblahblah "WHEN I PUT TWO IN YOUR CHEST AND ONE IN YOUR HEAD, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE"

negolien
10-12-2010, 3:32 PM
I think sucks they went from everyone owning a 1911 to having a billion different sidearms. I bet the armorers love that. I also bet it's adding a nice bit of extra work to the ammunition logistics guys ROFL.

Quiet
10-12-2010, 5:24 PM
US Army Special Forces with Glocks
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4446200043_10f8ddb2b2_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4447079316_e078ee48c9_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4446280539_f995e557f2_o.jpg

gumby
10-12-2010, 6:07 PM
CAG/formerly DELTA, what does CAG stand for?

k1dude
10-12-2010, 6:16 PM
There fixed it for you for reality in muzzle energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy)

I'm not aware of any branch of our services using .40, .357 Sig, or 10mm.

l8apex
10-12-2010, 6:41 PM
Most of the pistols have been already listed, but most run what they brung or received in training. The higher in SF tier or secret squirrels, the more flexibility in selection according to the individual. Gotta say that the rifle is much more of a concern than the pistol.

l8apex
10-12-2010, 6:44 PM
CAG/formerly DELTA, what does CAG stand for?

Combat Applications Group

RANDO
10-12-2010, 7:01 PM
I'm not aware of any branch of our services using .40, .357 Sig, or 10mm.



coast guard uses .40 S&W and 9mm

Rugerdaddy
10-12-2010, 7:04 PM
When I was in the Air Force my sidearm was a 9/16, mounted on a 3/8 drive 75 to 250 inch/pound torque wrench. But, I wasn't in Special Ops......... :D

HCz
10-12-2010, 7:18 PM
SEALS also have HK 45c

GW
10-12-2010, 7:21 PM
When I was in the Air Force my sidearm was a 9/16, mounted on a 3/8 drive 75 to 250 inch/pound torque wrench. But, I wasn't in Special Ops......... :D

5/8 has more power...:D

Droc101
10-12-2010, 8:27 PM
5/8 has more power...:D

my 3/4 kicks your 5/8 *****

gumby
10-12-2010, 8:35 PM
Thanks I8apex. "combat applications group"--sounds like a sociologist came up with that one.

Boltz
10-12-2010, 8:43 PM
What's that?

I think he was just being sarcastic guys :o

2Bear
10-12-2010, 9:06 PM
SIG P229R DAK .40 (USCG).

Apparently also the choice of Homeland Security, regardless of how special their forces...

http://www.sigsauer.com/products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=119

The P229® DAK™ is the standard pistol of the Dept. of Homeland Security and the U.S. Coast Guard who selected the P229 after a 3 million round grueling torture test.

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/229-DAK-detail-L.jpg

RANDO
10-12-2010, 9:10 PM
Apparently also the choice of Homeland Security, regardless of how special their forces...

http://www.sigsauer.com/products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=119



http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/229-DAK-detail-L.jpg



the torture test was against a Glock 3M rounds

pyromensch
10-12-2010, 9:15 PM
i can't believe nobody has used this yet...."i would tell you, but then i would have to kill you". :)

pyromensch
10-12-2010, 9:18 PM
I think sucks they went from everyone owning a 1911 to having a billion different sidearms. I bet the armorers love that. I also bet it's adding a nice bit of extra work to the ammunition logistics guys ROFL.

better for us, "military surplus ammo"

pyromensch
10-12-2010, 9:19 PM
When I was in the Air Force my sidearm was a 9/16, mounted on a 3/8 drive 75 to 250 inch/pound torque wrench. But, I wasn't in Special Ops......... :D

unless you were working on an ac-130

KCDS
10-12-2010, 9:32 PM
better for us, "military surplus ammo"

some surplus .45 and 10mm would be nice:rolleyes:

inbox485
10-12-2010, 9:42 PM
If I said they all carry XD's would you run out and buy one?

Shenaniguns
10-13-2010, 2:17 AM
If I said they all carry XD's would you run out and buy one?


No but that would be hilarious :cool2:

Plisk
10-13-2010, 9:51 AM
-US Navy SEALs: SIG Sauer P226R 9mm (rumours a variant of the HK USP/C .45 with threaded barrel has been swirling for years. They no longer use the MK23 or any S&W revolvers)


I know a few SEAL guys and the only H&Ks they've ever told me about are their MP5s. The only handguns they have access to are various SIGs and M9s.

ianS
10-13-2010, 10:01 AM
I know a few SEAL guys and the only H&Ks they've ever told me about are their MP5s. The only handguns they have access to are various SIGs and M9s.

"Frogman" who is an active duty SEAL wrote this in early 2008 (not sure whether to add the link because of chaging forum rules.)
The information is relatively dated so YMMV.
You can’t really tell the Mk 23 story without telling parts of the Beretta and SIG story, as well. The Beretta 92F was largely the result of a specific SEAL Team urging Beretta to modify a few things with the standard 92 for the unit’s use. Things like moving the magazine release from the butt to the frame, re-shaping the trigger guard…etc. This particular SEAL Team had Beretta 92F’s before the U.S. military ever went to the “M9”. During the testing for the new U.S. standard issue sidearm SIG actually slightly outperformed the Beretta. I was told that it wasn’t chosen because Beretta slightly beat the price point over SIG. The real answer is probably a bit more complicated than that, but Beretta did eventually win . The trials lasted a long time during which life went on in the Teams…until Berettas starting failing in the SEAL Teams. I remember those days well. The Teams had a lot of loyalty to the pistol, but all of that ended when Beretta publicly accused the Teams of routinely firing “hot” ammo through the guns. Not a true statement. The Teams dropped the Beretta and were authorized to purchase an “interim” handgun to fill the bill until the ink was dry on the government standard sidearm contract. The Teams bought SIGs and began a loyalty o that system which persists even still.

It wasn’t too long before Army SOF began to sour on the Beretta. Their problem was that they already had M1911A1’s on their TOA&E. The military being what it is, you can only have one caliber of a particular type of like equipment. Army SOF began to work the issue by conceptualizing an “Offensive Handgun” different in definition and .45 ACP. This was just post Desert Storm. SEAL SIGs had been in inventory for 2-3 years and folks were starting to recall that the P226 was only an “interim” buy. Someone was caught using improper justification for a second purchase of SIGs by Congress. During the dust-up which followed Army SOF approached Navy SOF through Crane with the “Offensive Handgun” concept. The Navy could take the lead on the project and if it came off both the Army and Navy SOF would enjoy a new .45 cal handgun. The “Offensive Handgun” project felt the influences of many opinionated pistoleros. A long list of features was drawn up.

Eventually both Colt and HK submitted Phase One Prototypes for endurance testing. I was actually one of the SEALs who had to fire 30,000 rounds through a Colt and HK pistol over the course of a week in 1994 and document every failure. Not as fun as you might think.

We also took the revamped (Phase Two) prototypes to Rogers’ Shooting School for testing (that was fun) in early 1995. I and several other SEAL Team “bullet heads” went to the testing with malice in our hearts not only for the gun but the very concept of the gun. Our intent was to shoot it better than anyone else and then slam it in the critiques.

The gun grew on us haters. That simple. It was dead accurate, big- yes, but manageable. With a suppressor on it is unlike any other handgun.

It was finally issued around 1996 or so. I used it in winter warfare a lot, for over the beach work and diving. I preferred my SIG for assaults. Later in my career I did a lot more diving and over the beach work. The Mk 23 was awesome at that stuff. It is the best weapon to have in a hide site when lying up with a Team in a concealed position. You can bring it to bear day or night on anyone sneaking up on you. It is accurate even after blowing through your hide site material, the suppressor is pretty quiet and the LAM lets you get away with a lot. I used it and trained many other SEALs to use it very capably. The SEAL Teams that did not dive as much as, say, SDV Teams neglected their Mk 23’s. The Mk 23’s strengths were not as obvious to those guys who weren’t swimming and diving all the time. Last year a message came out to turn in all Mk 23’s to Crane. At least one SDV Team flatly refused. A few other Teams suddenly decided they should keep a “few”. So those at NAVSPECWARCOM who had sent the message in the first place restricted the expenditure of .45 ammo, instead. SDV Teams now have Mk 23s but no ammo allowance. They even ordered S&W 686’s from Crane to outfit their guys because a SIG will not survive a long dive very well. I know of a handful of guys who have taken their issue Mk 23’s overseas since the ammo cut-off because they know they can get the ammo there and have actually carried them in missions far from the water.

That’s the story in nutshell. What else would you like to know?

Frogman

Dragon
10-13-2010, 8:31 PM
If I said they all carry XD's would you run out and buy one?

Already had one !! I wont be getting a glock!!

Plisk
10-13-2010, 8:40 PM
"Frogman" who is an active duty SEAL wrote this in early 2008 (not sure whether to add the link because of chaging forum rules.)
The information is relatively dated so YMMV.

I'm not sure if you misread my post or not. I wasn't saying the SEALs never had the Mk.23. I'm saying they don't have them now, and none of the ones I know have ever told me about other HK pistols in arsenal while they've been in.

Cyc Wid It
10-13-2010, 8:49 PM
Is this the same Frogman that helped design the Cylinder and Slide Trident? He spec'ed out a really nice hard use 1911.

Veggie
10-13-2010, 9:29 PM
We wear subdued or IR flags in the field. As much as we are proud to show out colors, they also stick out like a sore thumb.

Thought I read somewhere that was a no no. Guess it was old or incorrect.

ianS
10-13-2010, 10:35 PM
I'm not sure if you misread my post or not. I wasn't saying the SEALs never had the Mk.23. I'm saying they don't have them now, and none of the ones I know have ever told me about other HK pistols in arsenal while they've been in.
My post was merely to broaden the conversation/information.

Is this the same Frogman that helped design the Cylinder and Slide Trident? He spec'ed out a really nice hard use 1911.

Yes.

Plisk
10-13-2010, 10:55 PM
My post was merely to broaden the conversation/information.


Ah, so it was I who was misunderstanding the post. I deserve a cookie.

Günter
10-14-2010, 12:13 AM
Ah, so it was I who was misunderstanding the post. I deserve a cookie.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Choco_chip_cookie.png/800px-Choco_chip_cookie.png

trinydex
10-14-2010, 4:23 PM
Towards the end of infantry school I asked my drill sgt what he carried. He is SF and he plainly said, "the M9." I asked why since he could carry anything he wanted. I asked about the Mk23. He laughed and jokingly said, "oh the crew served pistol? That thing is huge. Yeah some guys carry the hk, some carry colts. I just carry the M9. I kill anything I shoot at anyways..." Drill sgt was a crazy/scary dude.

crew served pistol. lawlipops

Anchors
10-14-2010, 6:55 PM
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/513/ezl8d1.jpg

Tactical scissors!

US Army Special Forces with Glocks
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4446200043_10f8ddb2b2_o.jpg


His OTHER sidearm is a SBS! That is badass. Shotgun in a hip holster.

Shenaniguns
10-14-2010, 7:45 PM
How many Special Forces teams use the XD? :D

Grassninja
10-14-2010, 8:12 PM
Tactical scissors!.

Those are medical shears, and they serve a very real purpose.

Anchors
10-15-2010, 1:13 AM
Those are medical shears, and they serve a very real purpose.

I never said scissors weren't important haha.
And now that I look closer they are shears (you can see the bend).

inbox485
10-15-2010, 12:07 PM
How many Special Forces teams use the XD? :D

I'd be shocked if the number wasn't zero. I like mine, but between the firing pin indicator and the chamber indicator, both being known to break during rough use, I could see them not being enthusiastically adopted. XD's don't hold a whole lot over glocks or M&Ps other than the backstrap safety, and SA really hasn't done much to try to get government contracts for the XD line.

Maddog5150
10-15-2010, 12:38 PM
I see posts here that say glock fotay. I was told by one of my bosses who trains SF units globally and even trains MARSOC that SF decided not to use 40 cal because of the round. If black ops were being taken place and the enemy found 40cal casings, its easy to think of which country primarily uses the 40S&W in general. 45 could be a number of nato or enemy countries and 9mm is everywhere in the planet.
Dont know if its true or not but theres some info to think about. I'm sure if there are real SF daddies looking at this forum, they wouldnt bother to post so we are all up for guessing, going by heresay, ect. :D

Shenaniguns
10-15-2010, 1:09 PM
I'd be shocked if the number wasn't zero. I like mine, but between the firing pin indicator and the chamber indicator, both being known to break during rough use, I could see them not being enthusiastically adopted. XD's don't hold a whole lot over glocks or M&Ps other than the backstrap safety, and SA really hasn't done much to try to get government contracts for the XD line.



Man, it looks like you've smartened up big time the last few months about the Hi-point and XD.

Ascout
10-15-2010, 1:20 PM
Thought I read somewhere that was a no no. Guess it was old or incorrect.
Troops can and will do what is necessary in the field regarding gear. While the current risk averse military is less cavalier about this sort of stuff, it still gets done.

Theoretically, subdued "screaming eagles" were available in VN, though I never saw a single one. However for our field gear, we routinely "subdued" that big, white bald head and yellow beak with mud, used motor oil, or the lead from a No. 2 pencil, whatever was most handy.

The ingenuity of G.I.'s is beyond measure.

inbox485
10-15-2010, 1:43 PM
Man, it looks like you've smartened up big time the last few months about the Hi-point and XD.

Not quite sure what you are referring to. Perhaps I defended some of the more nonsensical bashes on the two in the past, but I've always taken issue with both of them for the legitimate issues they have. I've always had misgivings about the C-9 due to out of the box issues and longevity issues. I still like my XD, and wouldn't consider trading it for a Glock, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why teams and agencies look elsewhere.

elSquid
10-15-2010, 1:52 PM
I see posts here that say glock fotay. I was told by one of my bosses who trains SF units globally and even trains MARSOC that SF decided not to use 40 cal because of the round. If black ops were being taken place and the enemy found 40cal casings, its easy to think of which country primarily uses the 40S&W in general. 45 could be a number of nato or enemy countries and 9mm is everywhere in the planet.
Dont know if its true or not but theres some info to think about. I'm sure if there are real SF daddies looking at this forum, they wouldnt bother to post so we are all up for guessing, going by heresay, ect. :D

I have no connections, so I'm just going on what I've read in odd postings by SMEs on m4carbine.

One more data point, google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Special+operations+Iraq+delta+glock+22

and that should return a link to a google book excerpt.

Anywho, I thought it interesting in view of the eternal 1911vs Glock wars.

-- Michael

11Z50
10-15-2010, 1:58 PM
I can tell you a large number of G19's were issued to the Iraqi Police, who worked closely with some Spec Ops and Civilian contract personnel. I would guess it wouldn't be hard for an operator to acquire a G19 over there.

While normally POW's (Privately Owned Weapons) are not allowed, as one goes higher up the Spec Ops tree, Reg's get relaxed or ignored altogether. I've seen a few operators in my time, and they do pretty much as they wish, especially in the field.

I worked with an A team from 5th SFG and they all packed M9's but that's been awhile back.

Scratch705
10-15-2010, 1:59 PM
I see posts here that say glock fotay. I was told by one of my bosses who trains SF units globally and even trains MARSOC that SF decided not to use 40 cal because of the round. If black ops were being taken place and the enemy found 40cal casings, its easy to think of which country primarily uses the 40S&W in general. 45 could be a number of nato or enemy countries and 9mm is everywhere in the planet.
Dont know if its true or not but theres some info to think about. I'm sure if there are real SF daddies looking at this forum, they wouldnt bother to post so we are all up for guessing, going by heresay, ect. :D

i would think the ammo issue is only for covert stuff where no trace can be made back to USA? something along the lines of crossing borders we aren't suppose to cross type of thing?

scarville
10-15-2010, 6:21 PM
"Mad Dog" Shriver carried 38 revolvers. Sometimes five or six.

Ascout
10-15-2010, 6:24 PM
"Mad Dog" Shriver carried 38 revolvers. Sometimes five or six.

Most pilots and many others carried .38 Spl's on the reasonaing that a revolver will ask nothing of the other arm (if injured) until it's time to reload (and not necessarily then).
I knew a slick driver that carried a .357 Ruger B'hawk.:D

Maddog5150
10-15-2010, 8:19 PM
I still keep in touch with my Drill Sgt. He is no longer a drill and went back to the teams. I sent him an email asking him what they carried. This was his short reply.
"we have beretta m9 9mm, glock 19 9mm, and h&k socom .45.
what you carry is shooter preference
hope that helps "

Hope that helps. Cheers.

jcal0820
10-16-2010, 4:31 PM
Regarding availability of ammo in Theater, most units, including special ops and "other" gov't agencies, will likely opt for 9mm versions of their sidearms, as this is the caliber that will be stocked at ammo supply points. You want exotics like .40 and .357, then you'll have to bring your own stock, enough not just to take outside the Wire, but to practice with regularly, including all the test fires you do before leaving a FOB each time. That may be why I see a lot of Glock 17 in addition to 92Fs.

Army
10-16-2010, 6:29 PM
The det I worked with, carried nothing but issue weapons. They had a room stuffed full of the worlds groovy stuff, but operated outside the wire completely within regulations.

gn3hz3ku1*
11-13-2010, 2:18 PM
i don't think any real operators have time to post what guns they are shooting on a forum... with that said. we got plenty of keyboard operators :) hello CGNs :)

comon guys... we have all seen some of the CGN range pics.. 99.9 percent of us only know of someone who knows someone who told us what someone's cousin uses....

Shenaniguns
11-13-2010, 2:39 PM
i don't think any real operators have time to post what guns they are shooting on a forum... with that said. we got plenty of keyboard operators :) hello CGNs :)

comon guys... we have all seen some of the CGN range pics.. 99.9 percent of us only know of someone who knows someone who told us what someone's cousin uses....



This is a random post, but there are plenty of Operators/Firearm Instructors/Door kickers like Magpul,Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam etc that post on 10-8forums, Lightfighter.net, M4carbine.net etc...

gn3hz3ku1*
11-13-2010, 2:50 PM
This is a random post, but there are plenty of Operators/Firearm Instructors/Door kickers like Magpul,Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam etc that post on 10-8forums, Lightfighter.net, M4carbine.net etc...

you dont think the guys who are currently working and not retired have better things to do? i know the retired guys are posting

Shenaniguns
11-13-2010, 2:53 PM
you dont think the guys who are currently working and not retired have better things to do? i know the retired guys are posting

You can assume, I'm just telling you some truth. BTW, what's wrong with including the retired guys?

patriot_man
11-13-2010, 4:49 PM
Air Force SOC - P228, M9

Naval Special Warfare - P226, USP .45, M9 (Evident from recent contracts for Crimson Trace for P226 and USP laser sights for NSW)

Army Special Forces - Glock 21 SF, M9

MARSOC - MEU 1911

There maybe some I missed.

Sunday
11-13-2010, 4:53 PM
I believe most of the special ops community gets to use whatever weapon they wish for any particular mission. The mission determines the weapons used.

If I was out humping the Hindu Kush, I would want the lightest and most reliable weapon available. That includes ammo. 100 rounds of 9mm weighs WAAAY less than 100 rounds of .45. I would also prefer a plastic frame for the weight savings.

Now if I were in the Coast Guard boarding drug boats, I would want a big steel framed .45 since I don't have to hump it over mountains. I would want knock-down power over all else.

You get to use what is issued no?

ianS
11-13-2010, 9:44 PM
The vast majority of the time they use what's issued to them. Green Beret uses the M9. You'd rather have a SIG P226? Well, you should have tried out for a SEAL team instead. You'd rather carry a CZ? Well you should have joined Czech SF. Oops no, they carry Glocks. (Just ribbin' you CZ guys ;) )

gn3hz3ku1*
11-14-2010, 9:18 PM
You can assume, I'm just telling you some truth. BTW, what's wrong with including the retired guys?

nothing! they deserve way more than what uncle sam is giving them. i am not calling anyone a liar here either. never assumed u were lying..

SScott
11-22-2010, 2:50 PM
I can tell you what I carried. A basic Kimber Custom II. Every guy on my team carried some version of a 1911 .45

21SF
11-22-2010, 3:16 PM
OMG^^^ here we go....

Energy VS Momentum VS theoretical bs

luckystrike
11-22-2010, 3:49 PM
I want one cause special forces uses themmmmm:ninja:

Gryff
11-22-2010, 4:36 PM
I thought so too, but than I watched some pretty recent Beretta Ad and saw one at 1:54, maybe they havn't thrown all of them away yet.

eKEE1HoHt3M

That was painful to watch how some of those guys shoot handguns (the guy using the Mk.23, for example)

supersonic
11-22-2010, 7:47 PM
USSOCOM - H&K Mk23 Mod 0: .45 ACP
US Navy SEALs - SIG Sauer P226 (Mk24): 9x19mm
USMC Force Recon - MEU(SOC) 1911: .45 ACP

I guess everyone else in the armed forces uses the: Beretta M9, M9A1 (USMC), M11 (P228), SIG P229R DAK .40 (USCG). I've also heard that there are some folks in the Air Force with Glock 19s.

Yeah, I knew one SF group still uses the best.;):thumbsup:

(I'm actually surprised that the SEALS don't use the lightest possible with the highest cap. I mean, if they are going to use a 9mm full-size weapon, why not shave off some serious weight -almost 1/2 lb. - by going with the G-17 *maritime cup-equipped, of course*):D

inbox485
11-22-2010, 9:12 PM
Yeah, I knew one SF group still uses the best.;):thumbsup:

(I'm actually surprised that the SEALS don't use the lightest possible with the highest cap. I mean, if they are going to use a 9mm full-size weapon, why not shave off some serious weight -almost 1/2 lb. - by going with the G-17 *maritime cup-equipped, of course*):D

Lack of ammo versatility might be an issue in some cases. In others, it could be familiarity, or insistence on using a platform with a manual safety.

soldier07110
11-25-2010, 9:04 PM
Glock 17

eccvets
11-26-2010, 12:50 AM
do any of those other then the mark23 come tapped for a suppressor?

bshnt2015
11-26-2010, 5:37 AM
Everyone I know in the specops community carry the standard Beretta M9, Sig P226/8, or Glock 19. For a unit to bring something like 1911 45 or the plastic tupperware 45, the paperwork is volumes. The 45 caliber weapon is in the field, too what extent is up to your imagination. Happy Thanksgiving to our men & women serving our nation, be safe.

rromeo
11-26-2010, 6:35 AM
do any of those other then the mark23 come tapped for a suppressor?
Sig Suppressor series.

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=274

xSoCALx
01-19-2011, 1:43 PM
Already had one !! I wont be getting a glock!!


+ 1 on the XD. I would imagine that if they went with the XD series it would be the "XDM" model 19+1.

inbox485
01-19-2011, 1:58 PM
As I mentioned earlier, there are reasons beyond product performance that XD's aren't likely to see US service use.

ZX-10R
01-19-2011, 2:26 PM
Was at a base in SoCal visiting customers...The troops had M9s. This was as of later December.