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View Full Version : Why dont people like internal locks in SW wheel guns?


map
10-10-2010, 6:47 PM
Is it because they can lock up during firing? Are they less reliable because of the internal lock? Thanks in advance.

RRangel
10-10-2010, 7:03 PM
Is it because they can lock up during firing? Are they less reliable because of the internal lock? Thanks in advance.

None of the above. I'd say it's part nostalgia for older guns. A big reason is also because the lawyer lock was added in accordance with legislative happy entities like the California lawmakers. It leaves a bad taste in certain people's mouths. It doesn't change a thing as far as functioning.

map
10-10-2010, 7:10 PM
None of the above. I'd say it's part nostalgia for older guns. A big reason is also because the lawyer lock was added in accordance with legislative happy entities like the California lawmakers. It leaves a bad taste in certain people's mouths. It doesn't change a thing as far as functioning.

I see. Thanks for the clarification. I've heard people say things such as "it reminds me of the clinton administration." Now I know what they mean.

Thanks again.

Snapping Twig
10-10-2010, 8:34 PM
Go to the S&W forum and search internal lock and lock failure, your hair will stand on end!

I won't own one and it has to do both with the failures and the clinton thing and very little to do with nostalgia.

Don't take my word, look it up.

Black Majik
10-10-2010, 8:58 PM
It's the damn well so deep you can fall into on the frame. barf.

Rover
10-10-2010, 8:59 PM
IMHO a revolver is supposed to be simple, no need to clutter it up with a lock. Never experienced a failure, but I've also never shot a post-lock S&W, always buy used pre-locks because they're simpler and you can usually find one in 80-90% condition for a good price.

mnh327
10-10-2010, 9:56 PM
Here's more info on this:
http://206.125.47.50/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343509

And specifically about the lock failure:
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html

chickenfried
10-10-2010, 10:03 PM
Fewer parts the better
Not a feature I'm interested in

trashman
10-10-2010, 10:20 PM
Is it because they can lock up during firing? Are they less reliable because of the internal lock? Thanks in advance.

1) Aesthetics. Smith & Wesson afficianados (myself included) have a long inglorious history of complaining about various features as they have been deleted (counterbored cylinders, for instance) or added (metal-injection molded hammers and triggers; frame-mounted firing pins), particularly as they related to the decline of Western Civilization, and oh, "they just don't make them like they used to". Smithies are a peculiar and finicky lot.

2) Politics. When Saf-T-Hammer owned Smith & Wesson in the 90's, during the Clinton presidency, it is widely agreed that they capitulated to the Clinton folks and installed locks in their guns (Saf-T was a lock manufacturer, after all) in exchange for the withdrawal of an (otherwise non-lock-related) Federal lawsuit.

3) Reliability. Lock failures are really, really, REALLY rare. But they are considered an unwelcome "innovation" that, from a purely dialectical standpoint, reduces the reliability of your revolver.

Having said all that, I own a lot of pre-lock guns. When I hike in the wilderness I trust my life to one of my modern S&W's with the lock. The lock may suck, but the guns are functional, powerful, and beautiful.

--Neill

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee126/northslope/24and627004.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee126/northslope/29-5_007.jpg

tboyer
10-10-2010, 10:31 PM
A friend purchased a new 686, and it locked up on him
while he was firing it, as in the lock locked.

bsg
10-10-2010, 10:48 PM
i would only own a S&W revolver without the lock.

i have no want or need for an internal lock; i wouldn't purchase a revolver that has this feature that i don't want and which also increases potential for failure; even if the failure potential is incredibly small.

the aesthetics issue is a factor for me as well.

dfletcher
10-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Mainly, it looks lousy, I think. Also, it is the most visible and least useful feature of the "new" S & W revolvers - matte finishes, MIM parts that have a mottled and not case hardened finish, two piece barrels, LEGO style inside parts, frame mounted firing pin. These are I think little (or not so little) changes that by themselves most folks could accept - throw in the lock and it breaks the camel's back so to speak.

I bought a new style 21, couldn't warm up to it and sold it.

GŁnter
10-10-2010, 11:01 PM
I wonder if the shock and vibration caused by firing many rounds could eventually shift and engage the internal lock... just a thought.

cineski
10-11-2010, 6:01 AM
I will personally never buy a S&W with this feature. There's zero need, and it's more parts to fail. I've read of lock-ups. One lockup in a million is too many. Pre-lock or Ruger for me. I thought S&W were starting to come out w/ no lock versions again because of the back lash?

psango
10-11-2010, 6:42 AM
Is it because they can lock up during firing? Are they less reliable because of the internal lock? Thanks in advance.

Lock can be removed: Not hard to do.

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/psango/M17/SWM17-1.jpg

Fishslayer
10-11-2010, 6:42 AM
For me it has nothing to do with aesthetics or reliability. To me it represents a big part of what's gone so wrong with our country. Lawyers, legislating to the dumbest common denominator, and many etceteras.

I will never EVER own a S&W with a Klinton lock.

Andy Taylor
10-11-2010, 6:51 AM
1. Reliablity-chances are small that it could cause a problem, but it could, and I witnessed it happen at the range.

2. Looks-It makes the revolver look like cr@p.

3. Politics-The political forces that the lock represents.

I own many pre-lock S&Ws. I will not own a new one until the lock is gone.

psango
10-11-2010, 6:57 AM
1. Reliablity-chances are small that it could cause a problem, but it could, and I witnessed it happen at the range.

2. Looks-It makes the revolver look like cr@p.

3. Politics-The political forces that the lock represents.

I own many pre-lock S&Ws. I will not own a new one until the lock is gone.

Agreed, there is no rational reason for the lock. I won't buy another S&W revolver with a lock. I couldn't find a .22 Smith without the lock, so I bought this one but it's the only one and the last one.

1JimMarch
10-11-2010, 10:39 AM
For the record: the Ruger lock hidden under the grip panels of some models has never, ever failed. Literally zero reports. And they tested it for years on SA revolvers unlikely to be pressed into defensive use, another damned good idea, before shipping it on obviously combat-oriented revolvers (the LCR series so far).

winnre
10-11-2010, 10:48 AM
I lost my keys. At least the gun is UNLOCKED.

Wherryj
10-11-2010, 11:48 AM
I lost my keys. At least the gun is UNLOCKED.

I wonder if it is possible to remove the lock while it is locked? Having watched the procedure, it appears likely. That might at least be a way around losing a key on a locked smith.

It's good that you had yours' unlocked when you lost your key.

scarville
10-11-2010, 12:53 PM
Is it because they can lock up during firing? Are they less reliable because of the internal lock? Thanks in advance.
Largely, I think because it is a legacy of the Clinton Administration. The Agreement was signed by Tomkins PLC in 2000. As the result of a boycott, Smith and Wesson was sold to the Saf-T-Hammer Corporation in 2001 at a fire sale price. The new company called itself Smith and Wesson Holding Corporation and publicly renounced the agreement. However, the Justice Department made sympathetic noises in public but refused to actually put anything in writing. I guess the S&W lawyers decided that it was better to be safe than sorry when dealing with the Feds.

So the revolver lock was phased in starting in early 2003.

It is not hard to disable the lock and you don't need to remove the key thingy. Save the plate JIC you want to re-enable the lock someday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

westcoast362
10-11-2010, 3:40 PM
It's some of all of the above for me, but mostly the look of the hole in the side. You will notice almost all photos of new S&Ws don't show the lock.
I own several S&W revolvers none with the lock. I have zero interest in the lock, mim, two piece barrel Smiths.
PS There is supposed to be a firing pin mounted on a case hardened hammer, and a case hardened trigger.

trashman
10-12-2010, 12:14 PM
All this complaining about locks reminded me of one of my "to-dos": so I just ordered this 627-5 from Budsgunshop. Can't wait to shoot it: 8 rounds of unfluted .357 magnum goodness.

Yes it has the lock, and yes I will love the hell out of this gun anyway.

--Neill



http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/170133_01_lg.jpg