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View Full Version : Check your Beretta 92's for high caps


SVT-40
10-10-2010, 12:53 PM
Twice this past year I found 15 round mags in boxes of new Beretta 92FS pistols. Both boxes were marked as having ten round mags. But each contained two 15 round mags. They were direct from distributors.

Just info only!!!

CavTrooper
10-10-2010, 1:07 PM
Twice this past year I found 15 round mags in boxes of new Beretta 92FS pistols. Both boxes were marked as having ten round mags. But each contained two 15 round mags. They were direct from distributors.

Just info only!!!

Is there a law against receiving hi caps?

Mssr. Eleganté
10-10-2010, 3:21 PM
Is there a law against receiving hi caps?

I think the issue (here in the FFL's forum anyway) is that a California dealer might accidently sell or offer for sale a large capacity magazine that came packaged with a Beretta.

SVT-40
10-10-2010, 10:41 PM
I think the issue (here in the FFL's forum anyway) is that a California dealer might accidentally sell or offer for sale a large capacity magazine that came packaged with a Beretta.

As above. 100 % correct.

Check the exact wording of 12020 PC. See the highlighted area which is applicable to "high capacity" magazines.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

So although we have a high cap permit which allows us to import and sell them. We can only sell to LEO's and other authorized persons. If we were to knowingly import or sell a "high Cap" to a non LEO it would be a violation.

Just a heads up so no dealer runs into trouble. If it only occurred once I would not have posted. But since it happened twice to us I'm sure others may have also had it happen to them.

Forewarned is forearmed!!

jtmkinsd
10-10-2010, 11:05 PM
Always check every box that comes in...i've gotten many a handgun that was "supposed" to have a 10 round mag with it actually have a high capacity mag in the box...always check.

Sig is notorious for this.

11Z50
10-10-2010, 11:57 PM
Make them repair kits.

kemasa
10-11-2010, 9:39 AM
You might want to read 12020(b):


(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
...
(21) The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by
a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.


There is no restrictions on who the magazines can be sold to, but I would not recommend that you do this unless you want to be put out of business and get free room and board. If you have enough money and time, then you should be able to win, which would be a win for everyone.

With that said, you should always check what arrives to make sure that it is what you expected and that the serial number matches the paperwork.

Munk
10-13-2010, 12:35 PM
You might want to read 12020(b):



There is no restrictions on who the magazines can be sold to, but I would not recommend that you do this unless you want to be put out of business and get free room and board. If you have enough money and time, then you should be able to win, which would be a win for everyone.

With that said, you should always check what arrives to make sure that it is what you expected and that the serial number matches the paperwork.

I've heard about this before, and it's been brought up a couple times... the problem is, nobody is willing to test it. It would be a big sink of time and money, and would require someone to effectively give up their business until the court sorted things out.

Is it technically legal for someone licensed under 12071 to sell them? Yes, at least as far as the law is written. It's illegal for normal folks to sell them, unless to an FFL, yet it's Theoretically and Definitionally legal for FFLs to sell them to pretty much anyone.
I really wish someone would get this rolling.

Below I've included statutory definitions of licensees, and of the 12020 exemption that was listed below.

Now to find an FFL who's willing to go out of business during the fight to make this happen.
(a) (1) As used in this chapter, the term "licensee,"
"person licensed pursuant to Section 12071," or "dealer" means a
person who has all of the following:
(A) A valid federal firearms license.
(B) Any regulatory or business license, or licenses, required by
local government.
(C) A valid seller's permit issued by the State Board of
Equalization.
(D) A certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (4).
(E) A license issued in the format prescribed by paragraph (6).
(F) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in
subdivision (e).
(4) A person may request a certificate of eligibility from the
Department of Justice. The Department of Justice shall examine its
records and records available to the department in the National
Instant Criminal Background Check System in order to determine if the
applicant is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing,
receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm and issue a certificate to
an applicant if the department's records indicate that the applicant
is not a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from
possessing firearms.

(6) A license granted by the duly constituted licensing authority
of any city, county, or city and county, shall be valid for not more
than one year from the date of issuance and shall be in one of the
following forms:
(A) In the form prescribed by the Attorney General.
(B) A regulatory or business license that states on its face
"Valid for Retail Sales of Firearms" and is endorsed by the signature
of the issuing authority.
(C) A letter from the duly constituted licensing authority having
primary jurisdiction for the applicant's intended business location
stating that the jurisdiction does not require any form of regulatory
or business license or does not otherwise restrict or regulate the
sale of firearms.




12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) {Snipped listing of all the random odds and ends that are illegal to sell}
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(3) {Concealed explosives}
(4) {Concealed dirk or dagger}
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(21) The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.



IANAL so take this with a grain of salt. I'm just a guy who's taken a few law classes during other studies.

kemasa
10-13-2010, 12:50 PM
Yep, unless a class action lawsuit could be done since all FFLs are prohibited due to what the CA DOJ says.

Doheny
10-13-2010, 12:57 PM
I know a guy..... ;)

Who wasn't a LEO but is someone who can get in the front door of ProForce in Brea. He bought a Glock23 and it came with three high-caps, rather than ten-rounders.