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bigred
10-09-2010, 7:16 PM
Hello everyone.

New to the site, lots of good info here.

Was hoping some members could chime in and offer some advice.

family owns a large gun distribution company that mainly provides weapons to Police so I've been around guns my whole life but never had any formal training.

Anyway, bottom line is I live in LA now and am going to take a bunch of lessons/go to the range and brush up on my skills.

I want to buy a handgun that I can use in training and then also keep at the house which will act as a good training gun/protection gun, but nothing advanced given my skill level.

I was hoping to spend no more then around $500 if possible but am open to suggestions.

My initial plan was just to get a Glock 17 but I wanted to know your thoughts.

Thanks for any advice.

89 Vision
10-09-2010, 7:17 PM
Can't go wrong with a Glock, think you've already made a very good choice given your budget.

9mmepiphany
10-09-2010, 7:35 PM
Make sure you handle it before you decide...I actually find the G19 fits my hand better than the G17.

If you're interested in a gun with a hammer and DA/SA trigger, the Sig Pro 2022 is right around $400...the Sig P6 is a bit less.

If the Glock doesn't fit, but you're still interested in a polymer frame...take a look at the S&W M&P9

Requiem
10-09-2010, 7:39 PM
I'm not a big handgun shooter, but I'd like to be. I've been more into rifles. I've recently shot a few that I was looking into and decided I'm going to buy a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. It's a bit over your budget (probably around $620-$650 including FFL fees if you're gonna order from Bud's Gun Shop like I plan on doing), but I loved it. That said, people swear by Glocks for their reliability and simplicity. It seems more in your price range of sub-$500 as well.

RollingCode3
10-09-2010, 7:40 PM
One word...... "GLOCK"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/cadetcode3/guns/100_1546.jpg

bigred
10-09-2010, 7:55 PM
Thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it.


Make sure you handle it before you decide...I actually find the G19 fits my hand better than the G17.

If you're interested in a gun with a hammer and DA/SA trigger, the Sig Pro 2022 is right around $400...the Sig P6 is a bit less.

If the Glock doesn't fit, but you're still interested in a polymer frame...take a look at the S&W M&P9

That is a good point. While in my life (though mainly when I was younger at my father's warehouse) I've handled practically ever gun under the sun, I never knew which I was holding, so I'll be sure to hold anything before I buy it.

Interesting about the Sig Pro 2022 price. I had no idea it was so much less then the G17. I haven't held a G17 in god knows how long/don't know much about it. I take it the G17 is a SA, wondering which would be better for me. SA vs DA/SA.

Still leaning towards G17 for now but def. interested in hearing more opinions.

Thanks everyone

jptopz
10-09-2010, 8:07 PM
Given your budget a Glock is a wise choice! Simple, reliable, and fun to shoot. My favorites are my 1911's but you can't go wrong with a Glock.:D

chesterthehero
10-09-2010, 8:21 PM
nothing beats a glock


that said ive had zero issues with rugers sr9.. true ive yet to throw it out of an airplane or run it over with a truck.. but still.. roughly 1000 issue free rounds with several new shooters pulling the trigger.. out the door yer right around $500

Greg-Dawg
10-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Go talk with your dad, you can only have one.

bigred
10-10-2010, 10:11 AM
nothing beats a glock


that said ive had zero issues with rugers sr9.. true ive yet to throw it out of an airplane or run it over with a truck.. but still.. roughly 1000 issue free rounds with several new shooters pulling the trigger.. out the door yer right around $500

Sounding like Glock might be a good place to start. Appreciate the advice.

Go talk with your dad, you can only have one.

Nope.

map
10-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Check out an XD9 see how it fits in your hand.

bigred
10-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Check out an XD9 see how it fits in your hand.

Funny, I was just about to make a post asking what people thought of the XD9. I haven't held it yet but was planning on checking it out. It's a bit cheaper too.

HCz
10-10-2010, 1:20 PM
Glock 17 or 19 is good,
XD9 is good
M&P 9 is good

There are other choices such as CZ75B for your price range. Might want to look in to used guns for better bargains too.

bigred
10-10-2010, 2:36 PM
Glock 17 or 19 is good,
XD9 is good
M&P 9 is good

There are other choices such as CZ75B for your price range. Might want to look in to used guns for better bargains too.


Yes,

I am now officially deciding between either a Glock 17 or a XD9

l8apex
10-10-2010, 2:46 PM
Glock 17, the aftermarket support and simplicity [DIY maintenance] of the platform is second to none. I recommend the RTF2.

Noah3683
10-10-2010, 2:55 PM
Glock 19....................... or you can get a S&W 990l for $385 Shipped + transfer which instantly became my favorite handgun. It is comfortable and has changeable backstraps.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/noah3683/STH71720.jpg

tbhracing
10-10-2010, 3:02 PM
OP- After reading everything you wrote- Glock 19 for sure.

OliveCookieMonsta
10-10-2010, 3:07 PM
Talk to dad...

Then buy a glock!

Best yet... Try/rent lots, then choose the one you shoot best and feel most comfortable with.

Mine was a G17 which I was unsure of because of sooo many choices but I'll never trade in.

Good luck

bigred
10-10-2010, 3:41 PM
OP- After reading everything you wrote- Glock 19 for sure.

What noticeable differences are there between a G17 and G19?

Dragon
10-10-2010, 3:42 PM
Be different and dont buy a Glock.XD and the others :D

RollingCode3
10-10-2010, 4:00 PM
Yes,

I am now officially deciding between either a Glock 17 or a XD9

Just buy both and you will be happy. =)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/cadetcode3/guns/IMG_0894.jpg

Bill Steele
10-10-2010, 4:38 PM
I don't own a Glock, never really cared for them myself.

Buy a Glock.

Rugerdaddy
10-10-2010, 6:36 PM
Don't rush, and don't buy a gun based only on what people tell you on a forum. These guys know guns, but they will usually tell you to buy what they own (as will I, see below). The excellent guns they own, may not be right for you. They may all be good guns, but you need to spend more time doing some research. I recommend the following steps:

1. Decide what caliber you want. The .45 is oft named the best for home defense, but these guns are generally bigger, fatter, and/or hold less rounds. It also has more recoil if you're not use to it. Go to a gun range that rents guns and fire a .45, .40 S&W, and a 9mm to see how they feel (almost no one will recommend any other caliber for self defense). You may also be able to simultaneously try some of the guns mentioned above.

2. Once you decide what caliber you think is best for you, think about how the gun should feel in your hand. Some like a heavy, hefty gun, others like a light gun. Note that heavier guns generally have less muzzle rise and/or recoil, while light guns may have a pronounced muzzle rise. Another issue is that double stacked guns carry more ammo, but may feel ďfatĒ in your hand. (Thatís why I donít personally care for the double stacked Glocks- I have smaller hands.)

3. After the above you should be able to identify the caliber you want, and how you would like a gun to feel in your hand. Then you should be able to narrow your choice to two or three guns. After that (!), do more research to see which guns have better reliability, are in your price range, are more popular, etc. Thatís when a posting to this forum would really help the most IMHO.

4. Or, just go buy a Ruger SR9C 9mm pistol like mine, only $399 (Sacramento) and youíll be forever happy! :D

Seriously, if anyone can add more/better advice for bigred, please help me here....

bigred
10-10-2010, 9:19 PM
Ruggerdaddy-

Thanks for the long response.

Clearly I should go to a range and rent the G17, XD9, and Ruger SRC9 and test them all out.

Are there any specific requirements going to the range (will probably go to the LAX one)? I don't have my HSC, assume I could take the test there?

bravo6four
10-10-2010, 9:52 PM
Whichever one you buy try to find a reputable instructor. I've had many over the years but I've NEVER enjoyed any classes (apologies if I offend anyone) where the instructor has never been in an actual gunfight. Anyone can punch paper all day long and be proficient but throw the monkey wrench in (e.g. low light, stress, forced to fire from the weak hand, & jam/failure) I've seen some bobble. The moment of truth will be different than theory.

voiceoftheright
10-10-2010, 10:01 PM
My friend owned an XD40 first, bought a Glock 17 because he was looking at getting into private security overseas, and he doesn't like the angle of the grip on the G17. It shoots well, but he shoots good with either even if it is a 40 compared to a 9. Just something to look at when you go to make your decision. Obviously, any gun that has real use by so many people will be reliable, whether it is the XD or the Glock. It's all about personnal preference.

IsaacGlass
10-11-2010, 12:18 AM
Just ask daddy for all of them and then some. :D

evidens83
10-11-2010, 7:05 AM
Glock or S&W M&P9

1_Grendel
10-11-2010, 9:01 AM
Are there any specific requirements going to the range (will probably go to the LAX one)? I don't have my HSC, assume I could take the test there?


Take a bud with you to the range. I am not sure about the LA range rules but most ranges will not let a single (1 lone individual) person rent and fire their guns. i believe it is due to suicides. Don’t bother buying ammo before You go ranges will only allow you to use their over priced ammo in their rental guns.
Check out the range you want to go to on-line, read their rules page then give them a call with any additional questions.

I would not mind having all the handguns mentioned here so far I don’t think you could go wrong with any of the guns.
Good Luck

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 10:12 AM
Go with a 9mm Glock if you don't want to do anything outside of adding sights, M&P 9mm if you want something that may be a bit more ergonomic but needs some trigger work IMO. I suggest Apex Tactical's DCAEK personally :D

gorenut
10-11-2010, 11:15 AM
I say just go with the Glock for now. If later on, your tastes change.. a Glock is easy to trade/sell. They move pretty fast.

Aside from that, I'll have to echo 9mm on the Sig Pro 2022. Unfortunately the 2022 has a bad rep on this forum because so many got the terrible Turners batch. I was fortunate enough to own a 2022 before that batch and from a different seller. For what its worth, the 2022 is the reason I got rid of my P226s that cost double the 2022 - performance has really been THAT good.

DaveFJ80
10-11-2010, 12:18 PM
I'll just say this, since I didn't really see anyone talk about it.

I've taken a few 'defensive handgun' courses in So Cal, and my friend has taken a few others, including at Front Sight. When we talked about what type of handguns most people were using in the classes, it usually came down to something like this....

80% - Glock
8% - 1911
6% - Sig
4% - XD
2% - Other polymer handgun


Again, this is just what myself and another friend were discussion upon our own observation in the the courses we've taken (9 courses total... anywhere from 15-30 people in each class). I'm not saying you should get a Glock, but that's seems to be weapon of choice in all of the handgun courses we've been to.

I like using my Glock 19 in the defensive handgun classes (I might try one with my Kimber 1911 in the future).

Rugerdaddy
10-11-2010, 1:34 PM
I'll just say this, since I didn't really see anyone talk about it.

I've taken a few 'defensive handgun' courses in So Cal, and my friend has taken a few others, including at Front Sight. When we talked about what type of handguns most people were using in the classes, it usually came down to something like this....

80% - Glock
8% - 1911
6% - Sig
4% - XD
2% - Other polymer handgun


Again, this is just what myself and another friend were discussion upon our own observation in the the courses we've taken (9 courses total... anywhere from 15-30 people in each class). I'm not saying you should get a Glock, but that's seems to be weapon of choice in all of the handgun courses we've been to.

I like using my Glock 19 in the defensive handgun classes (I might try one with my Kimber 1911 in the future).

There's many reasons why one would buy a Glock, but it's not always because it's the best gun. Glock has huge brand recognition because they made polymers famous (though they weren't the first). They are also often just considered "cool"; the name Glock just sounds like a badass pistol (see brand recognition above). Another reason is because they make so many models, that it's easier to find one that fits, so they sell more.

Yes, they are also good guns, but I don't think they're any better than others of the top 10 or 12 manufacturers. There are plenty of reasons to buy a gun other than it's the most popular. Somebody buying their first gun should do plenty of research about caliber, weight, fit, and exactly what they're using it for.

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 1:50 PM
There's many reasons why one would buy a Glock, but it's not always because it's the best gun. Glock has huge brand recognition because they made polymers famous (though they weren't the first). They are also often just considered "cool"; the name Glock just sounds like a badass pistol (see band recognition above). Another reason is because they make so many models, that it's easier to find one that fits, so they sell more.

Yes, they are also good guns, but I don't think they're any better than others of the top 10 or 12 manufacturers. There are plenty of reasons to buy a gun other than it's the most popular. Somebody buying their first gun should do plenty of research about caliber, weight, fit, and exactly what they're using it for.



Sorry but that's a crock of poo poo, Glock earned their reputation as one of the best defensive handguns on the market.

Rugerdaddy
10-11-2010, 4:56 PM
Glock earned their reputation as one of the best defensive handguns on the market.

That doesn't conflict with anything I said above. But in addition the other reasons are valid. I've known plenty of people who just think "Glock" because it's cool and fashionable. And anyone who knows anything about marketing and merchandising would know that a manufacturer that makes twenty-nine models of anything is bound to sell more than the company that makes 5. That doesn't mean it's not ONE of the best defensive handguns on the market.

If you think it's clearly superior to other handguns for defensive purpose, please tell why. Does it shoot straighter? Does it do more damage with the same round? Does it have some sort of advanced ergonomics that make it fit everyone's hands perfectly? Specifically, what will a Glock do better for everyone who shoots one, than any other defensive pistol?

I say it's just a gun like any other quality gun, and only the user's opinions make it better or worse than any other good handgun. I own two Rugers which work perfectly for me, and in my opinion- and for me-, they're better than a Glock. But, I wouldn't try to tell everyone that that's the gun they should buy because I like it. I can only tell them WHY I like it.

bigred
10-11-2010, 5:01 PM
Yes. For what it's worth I don't care which is more "popular" I care about what is best for me personally. This is why I will be trying the G17, XD9, and Ruger SRC9, and I'll choose whichever fits me best. They are all within my price range.

Someone mentioned with a Glock the only modification needed is different sights. Is this common practice? What's wrong with the default sights, and what is better about the upgraded ones?

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 5:25 PM
That doesn't conflict with anything I said above. But in addition the other reasons are valid. I've known plenty of people who just think "Glock" because it's cool and fashionable. And anyone who knows anything about marketing and merchandising would know that a manufacturer that makes twenty-nine models of anything is bound to sell more than the company that makes 5. That doesn't mean it's not ONE of the best defensive handguns on the market.

If you think it's clearly superior to other handguns for defensive purpose, please tell why. Does it shoot straighter? Does it do more damage with the same round? Does it have some sort of advanced ergonomics that make it fit everyone's hands perfectly? Specifically, what will a Glock do better for everyone who shoots one, than any other defensive pistol?

I say it's just a gun like any other quality gun, and only the user's opinions make it better or worse than any other good handgun. I own two Rugers which work perfectly for me, and in my opinion- and for me-, they're better than a Glock. But, I wouldn't try to tell everyone that that's the gun they should buy because I like it. I can only tell them WHY I like it.




If you look at guns more like toys then maybe they are nearly equal but there's a short list of guns that own the majority of the Leo market, preferred by many well known firearm instructors, place in the top 3 competitively in production classes and have well over 5 million sold. The M&P is cutting into Glock's territory but still has a long way to go.

Ultimate
10-11-2010, 5:25 PM
Definitely handle them. I did the "safe" buy and bought a glock 23 as my first gun. Great gun but my hands are small to medium size.

I went to a Sig P229 which fit my hand way better and allowed me to shoot it better

and now I found out that:

The XD fits my hands like a glove and will be my next gun unless the roster dies and I get a 1911 9mm commander with an aluminum frame. ;)

Both great guns but don't let anyone tell you that you can't go wrong with a ____________. You certainly can. pick up the firearms and you might find more easily lines up with your arm for the correct grip.

gorenut
10-11-2010, 5:46 PM
Rugerdaddy has hit the big red CORRECT button.

Ascout
10-11-2010, 5:57 PM
He wants to train, shoot, and have a home defense weapon. I can think of nothing better than a .357 revolver with target sights in ~4" barrel. Train/shoot/practice of cheap .38 Spl. and if inclined, load .357 for defense. Can easily find a gun that fits that profile and no complicated malfunction drills. Just good, rewarding and affordable shooting.

Sheepdog1968
10-11-2010, 6:00 PM
You should be fine with a Glock per your OP. It's not my personal favorite but in terms of pistols, the vast majority of discussion comes down to a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy kind of thing. For the most part they are all fine. You will also find that there is lots of discussion about the caliber 45 ACP, 40 cal, 9 mm. I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point and just get what you mentioned and start to take some lessons. Frontsight is reasonable near to you and if you can get a certificate on this forum, it's a good place to take a training class. There are many other good places you can get training as well.

bigred
10-11-2010, 6:23 PM
You should be fine with a Glock per your OP. It's not my personal favorite but in terms of pistols, the vast majority of discussion comes down to a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy kind of thing. For the most part they are all fine. You will also find that there is lots of discussion about the caliber 45 ACP, 40 cal, 9 mm. I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point and just get what you mentioned and start to take some lessons. Frontsight is reasonable near to you and if you can get a certificate on this forum, it's a good place to take a training class. There are many other good places you can get training as well.

Speaking of Frontsight, can someone shed some insight into this place?

Upon first look, the webpage reads like a telemarketing situation, specifically this site:

https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp

Saying that there are only a few hundred spaces left to do it, repeating over and over again that its amazing value etc. Just curious if anyone has taken a class here.

The other issue I have is it says $1500 is the cost of the 4 day program. That's a lot for me.

LAX range offers a $100 2 hour beginners class and then about 6 other classes at $100 each. Curious if anyone has taken classes there or anywhere else in the LA area which doesn't involve a $1500 class.

Thanks everyone.

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 6:45 PM
Speaking of Frontsight, can someone shed some insight into this place?

Upon first look, the webpage reads like a telemarketing situation, specifically this site:

https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp

Saying that there are only a few hundred spaces left to do it, repeating over and over again that its amazing value etc. Just curious if anyone has taken a class here.

The other issue I have is it says $1500 is the cost of the 4 day program. That's a lot for me.

LAX range offers a $100 2 hour beginners class and then about 6 other classes at $100 each. Curious if anyone has taken classes there or anywhere else in the LA area which doesn't involve a $1500 class.

Thanks everyone.



Know that the Frontsight owner has been labeled a Scientologist and they push real estate? Do a Google search to see for yourself.

Rugerdaddy
10-11-2010, 7:15 PM
If you look at guns more like toys then maybe they are nearly equal but there's a short list of guns that own the majority of the Leo market, preferred by many well known firearm instructors, place in the top 3 competitively in production classes and have well over 5 million sold. The M&P is cutting into Glock's territory but still has a long way to go.

I agree with everything you say, but would add that LE agencies have to consider price as well as quality due to budgets, and that's one reason LEOs are usually allowed to carry their own if they prefer. And am sure that many of them would prefer Glocks.

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 7:18 PM
I agree with everything you say, but would add that LE agencies have to consider price as well as quality due to budgets, and that's one reason LEOs are usually allowed to carry their own if they prefer.


Only if it's an approved weapon.
Regardless of price, how many Rugers, Xtreme Duties or CZ's that are cheaper than Glock get issued?

bucktooth7
10-11-2010, 9:15 PM
If you can shoot a revolver accurately, all those plastic pistols are easy.

HCz
10-12-2010, 9:33 AM
Speaking of Frontsight, can someone shed some insight into this place?

Upon first look, the webpage reads like a telemarketing situation, specifically this site:

https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp

Saying that there are only a few hundred spaces left to do it, repeating over and over again that its amazing value etc. Just curious if anyone has taken a class here.

The other issue I have is it says $1500 is the cost of the 4 day program. That's a lot for me.

LAX range offers a $100 2 hour beginners class and then about 6 other classes at $100 each. Curious if anyone has taken classes there or anywhere else in the LA area which doesn't involve a $1500 class.

Thanks everyone.

If you are in LA, I'd suggest ITTS (internationaltactical.com). Uncle Scotty knows his stuff. There is a class in late Oct. (Defensive pistol 1)

As for LAX, I'm asuming American Defense Enterprise, and I'd not recommend them.

As for Frontsight, I don't think they are any better than other lesser known schools that are locally available. Even if that involves getting coupon from online and not paying $1500.

nazgulnarsil
10-12-2010, 9:42 AM
Just buy both and you will be happy. =)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/cadetcode3/guns/IMG_0894.jpg

i'd take XD's more seriously if they had texturing like that stock. the regular XD grip feels even more toy like than glocks.

bigred
10-12-2010, 10:53 AM
If you are in LA, I'd suggest ITTS (internationaltactical.com). Uncle Scotty knows his stuff. There is a class in late Oct. (Defensive pistol 1)

As for LAX, I'm asuming American Defense Enterprise, and I'd not recommend them.

As for Frontsight, I don't think they are any better than other lesser known schools that are locally available. Even if that involves getting coupon from online and not paying $1500.

ITTS looks very legit, and at $375, it is doable price wise for 2 full days of training.

Greg-Dawg
10-12-2010, 11:02 AM
Just don't come back as a mall ninja.

mif_slim
10-12-2010, 11:39 AM
Go talk with your dad, you can only have one.

Best advice. ;)

Anyways, on your questions. I think theres a training course at Burros Caynon on Oct 30th for 30 dollars. I saw the ad on here yesterday. Maybe you can check them out? Their right in your neck of the woods.