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SVT_Fox
06-01-2006, 7:15 PM
I had to get this thing called a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) Application and Live Scan Request Form. Not only did this process discourage me altogether, but why is this required? and why is this so expensive?


Am I even understanding this whole process of C&R?

How much was the gross cost of all you guys that have gotten these?

-marcel

Pthfndr
06-01-2006, 7:42 PM
I didn't have to get either of those.

stevie
06-01-2006, 7:42 PM
COE is not required to get a C&R FFL. The COE is a calif. document for certain transactions within the state.

icormba
06-01-2006, 7:45 PM
How much was the gross cost of all you guys that have gotten these?

-marcel

I only remember paying, what? $35.00 ?

I didn't get a COE.

taloft
06-01-2006, 7:56 PM
I had to get this thing called a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) Application and Live Scan Request Form. Not only did this process discourage me altogether, but why is this required? and why is this so expensive?


Am I even understanding this whole process of C&R?

How much was the gross cost of all you guys that have gotten these?

-marcel

Who told you that it was required to get a COE? Did you get hired by a gun shop?

SVT_Fox
06-01-2006, 7:59 PM
Who told you that it was required to get a COE? Did you get hired by a gun shop?

Here is the story,

I got two identacal forms in the mail for a C&R licence. I read somewhere that I need to send one to the feds in VA and the other to local Police. After calling the sherrif, then the PD, then the gun shop, I was told to call a place in sac. The place in Sacramento is who told me about the COE.

All I want to do is be able to buy guns of broker and have them mailed right to my door, and I also want to go to gun shows and come home with new guns. All I want is C&R stuff, nothing new...

mow
06-01-2006, 8:16 PM
Ahh I get it. Legally I believe that you will need both if you want them shipped to your door a CCR and a COE.

TonyNorCal
06-01-2006, 8:20 PM
A COE is not required to receive C&R cali legal firearms by mail (this means rifles over 50 years of age that don't have any evil features) So you can't receive Budda'd muzzle brake-havin' Yugo 59/66s, Albanian SKSs, or other rifles 50 years of age or less, and C&R handguns. No worries. Lots of good stuff to get:) .

COE allows you to cash and carry C&R firearms from a Cali dealer. Interestingly enough, the way the law is written this applies to C&R rifles under 50 years of age AND C&R handguns. However, you may have trouble convincing a dealer of this and not all may comply with the law. I recently walked out of Big 5 with two M44s....cash and carry same day...but it took them calling their district manager and some of my time waiting to make it ok. No worries, I was happy.

COE does not afford you any additional priviledges when receiving C&Rs by mail. In that case you are still bound by only non-evil feature rifles of greater than 50 years.

Here's a thread I wrote when I got my COE in which I posted the relevant statutes.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=29987&highlight=coe

Your PD should have no input in re: to your C&R other than you sending them a copy of the application. Of course, there could be some wacky local ordinance where you are but unlikely. The legal requirement is to notify the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer). Some may confuse a C&R with an FFL 1 dealers license (in which case you would need a COE). If the local PD starts telling you requirements i'd explain it's a collector's FFL and not a dealers license. Or just nod politely, say thanks, be on your way and verify any local requirements on your own. I'd ignore anything the Sheriff here told me after sending in a copy of the application.

Actually a good way to handle it is send your CLEO a copy of you application along with a letter saying that you're notifying them of your application for a Collector's FFL as per federal code (cite the code) and no further action is required on their part.

SVT_Fox
06-01-2006, 8:20 PM
Ahh I get it. Legally I believe that you will need both if you want them shipped to your door a CCR and a COE.


This is similar to my only questinon I had. What does each item do specifically?

mow
06-01-2006, 8:42 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Tony!:o I only sent a copy of my CCR application to the CLEO, and didn't include a letter to my CLEO, is that going to be an issue?

SVT_Fox check out TonyNorCal's post I think it explains it and sorry if I confused.:o

TonyNorCal
06-01-2006, 8:53 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Tony!:o I only sent a copy of my CCR application to the CLEO, and didn't include a letter to my CLEO, is that going to be an issue?

SVT_Fox check out TonyNorCal's post I think it explains it and sorry if I confused.:o

Mow, thanks. No letter to the CLEO is required. The only requirement is for you to send them a copy of the application. Some CLEOs may confuse this with a FFL 1 or feel they need to regulate you somehow. So the letter is just a way of explaining that it is...giving them the code...and letting them know indirectly you know what you're doing. Chances are it isn't necessary. Just know what barring some wacky local ordinance (which I seriously doubt) the CLEO has no input or regulatory power over your C&R. They are being notified more as a courtesy (albeit required) than anything.

Now an FFL 1 (dealers license) is very different. In that case your CLEO is required to issue you a firearms resale certificate (I looked this up recently) in order for you to get added to the DOJs centralized list of firearms dealers for DROS and ability to function. So if the CLEO doesn't want someone to sell guns they can block it. But for C&Rs the have no input.

Kestryll
06-01-2006, 8:59 PM
I have had my 03FFL(C&R) for 4 years now and I do not have nor have I had a COE.
When I sent in my app the first time I sent the original and a $30 check to the BATF and a copy to the CLEO. About three weeks later there it was. No COE or any California paperwork.

As a side note I got a call from the LAPD asking why I was getting an FFL and where my store was going to be...
After 20 minutes of explaining to the LAPD Firearms officer what an 03FFL was, what I could and couldn't do with it and that it could not be used for commercial purposes he thanked me for the info. Then he paused for a minute and asked "Do we need to approve this or is it just for informational purposes?"
I think I got the new guy in the office.

mow
06-01-2006, 9:07 PM
haha that's funny Kestryll!

I am still waiting for mine to arrive check was cashed 4-6-06, should be within about 4 weeks as that will be about 90 days:D

mow
06-01-2006, 9:10 PM
SVT_Fox other than what TonyNorCal posted about the COE (ca$h and carry C&R's NEWER than 50 years), A COE will allow you to purchase more than 1 handgun every 30 days.

I am not sure if there is anything else that a COE will get you.

SVT_Fox
06-01-2006, 9:50 PM
i think everything is pretty clear now, thanks for all the info guys, such a great resource!

-M

timmy8151
06-02-2006, 5:00 AM
I have a C&R FFL and COE. I only got the COE recently because I wanted to cash and carry C&R firearms.

SVT_Fox
06-02-2006, 8:48 AM
I have a C&R FFL and COE. I only got the COE recently because I wanted to cash and carry C&R firearms.


wait I thought that is what the C&R allowed us to do.......I thoght the COE lets us by more then one hand gun per 30 days

ocabj
06-02-2006, 9:05 AM
Since no one has addressed the Live Scan, that's pretty much a procedure where you go in to a Live Scan office and have your finger prints scanned and recorded for State background checks. Most people will never see a Live Scan office unless they get a job where the employer requests a background check (ie: State jobs) or for certain types of certifications (ie: medical certifications, locksmiths).

I had to get Live Scanned when I became full time employed by the University of California. I always wondered if the University was informed about all of my firearms (particularly my registered AWs) after the Live Scan...

mow
06-02-2006, 9:40 AM
wait I thought that is what the C&R allowed us to do.......I thoght the COE lets us by more then one hand gun per 30 days

Read what TonyNorCal posted on the first page of this about the COE, that should clear it up for you Fox.

NRAhighpowershooter
06-02-2006, 9:43 AM
OK.. I have a C&R question... You give your local LEO dept a copy of the application... what if they show up at your door and want to take a look around and see what firearms you have and type of safe.. can they do that?

EOD Guy
06-02-2006, 10:55 AM
OK.. I have a C&R question... You give your local LEO dept a copy of the application... what if they show up at your door and want to take a look around and see what firearms you have and type of safe.. can they do that?

Not without a warrant.

-hanko
06-02-2006, 4:45 PM
OK.. I have a C&R question... You give your local LEO dept a copy of the application... what if they show up at your door and want to take a look around and see what firearms you have and type of safe.. can they do that?
No. Not a lawyer but they'd need probable cause as to some issue other than an application for a C&R license. I've had a C&R for a LONG time in the firearms-liberal SF Bay area :eek: & have never heard of/experienced a pre-licensing visit from the cops. You may be confusing the C&R application with that for an 01 FFL (regular for profit dealer) where an inspection is done before licensing by the batfe and, probably in the prk, by the local cops.

-hanko

Yute
06-03-2006, 5:31 AM
Tony, Et al.,
Thank you very much for the info. I am probably going to apply for a C&R because of this thread!

SVT_Fox
06-03-2006, 8:53 AM
Tony, Et al.,
Thank you very much for the info. I am probably going to apply for a C&R because of this thread!


good! I sent mine out yesterday!

NRAhighpowershooter
06-03-2006, 9:13 AM
You may be confusing the C&R application with that for an 01 FFL (regular for profit dealer) where an inspection is done before licensing by the batfe and, probably in the prk, by the local cops.


No not confused at all.. The LEO leadership in San Leandro is VERRY anti-gun and I don't trust them.

mow
06-03-2006, 9:16 AM
This link provides a lot of good info about the application process

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp

thedrickel
06-03-2006, 8:31 PM
Pardon my threadjack, but I'm interested in getting a COE in addition to my C&R cause I want to cash and carry C&R handguns, I've been livescanned before, do I need to do it again or do they have me permanently on file?

Also, my understanding of the C&R handgun deal in the PRK is that when mail/internet ordering a C&R handgun, even with a COE you STILL have to have it sent to an 01 who receives it for you, and transfers it to you w/o DROS. Is that right? Have you had any luck finding a dealer that doesn't charge normal dealer/transfer fees for this? What a hassle the PRK is, I'm SOOO going to NV to buy some CZ's and Makarovs. . .that way I can buy what I want and just send the CA DOJ form in to report importation of C&R handguns. What a PITA

Gunhacker
06-06-2006, 5:46 PM
Also, my understanding of the C&R handgun deal in the PRK is that when mail/internet ordering a C&R handgun, even with a COE you STILL have to have it sent to an 01 who receives it for you, and transfers it to you w/o DROS. Is that right?

Nope... not in all cases.

If the seller wants to ship via the USPS (Postal Service), you have to go through a dealer... the language in the Federal Postal regulations only allow "dealers" to ship handguns to each other via the US Mail.

If the gun is shipped via one of the "common carriers" (UPS & FedEx), which will charge an arm & leg because they require all handguns to go via overnight air... then you, as a C&R hold can take delivery of the gun, from a dealer or another C&R.

It's crazy because the Federal Firearm Laws, does not make a distinction between a dealer and an C&R regarding the US Mail... you just need to be a licensee.

It's the US Postal reg that disallows anyone other than a licensed dealer to ship handguns via US Mail.

Mssr. Eleganté
06-06-2006, 9:40 PM
Nope... not in all cases...

If the gun is shipped via one of the "common carriers" (UPS & FedEx), which will charge an arm & leg because they require all handguns to go via overnight air... then you, as a C&R hold can take delivery of the gun, from a dealer or another C&R...

California law requires handguns to be transfered through a California licensed dealer. You are correct about the Postal regs being more specific about who can mail handguns, but this has nothing to do with California's restriction on who can have handguns shipped them in California.

For a California C&R FFL to acquire handguns without going through a California licensed dealer, they need to aquire the handguns in person while out of state and then bring them back to California themselves and register them.

EOD Guy
06-07-2006, 5:37 AM
Also, my understanding of the C&R handgun deal in the PRK is that when mail/internet ordering a C&R handgun, even with a COE you STILL have to have it sent to an 01 who receives it for you, and transfers it to you w/o DROS. Is that right?

Yes and no.

All handguns transfers in the state have to go through a California dealer. Even with a C&R FFL and COE, you still have to DROS the handgun.

thedrickel
06-07-2006, 12:15 PM
Yep, that's what I thought: it's a serious PITA to buy a C&R handgun in the PRK, it's a good thing I'm going to the next big Reno show!

sv_sniper
06-22-2006, 9:30 AM
The C&R handgun issues have been discussed a lot.

In your bound book, the handguns through local FFL-01 and you brought from the places other than CA are the same. Don't forget the C&R handgun report form to CADOJ. Just FYI.:)

SVT_Fox
07-08-2006, 1:36 PM
I still have not been charged the fee, and have heard nothing....what should I do...?

-M

xenophobe
07-08-2006, 2:50 PM
SVT, it can take upwards of 3-4 months before you receive the C&R. If you submitted a credit card, it probably won't be charged until they actually issue the C&R. Once you are charged, I would assume you would get your C&R in the mail a week or two later...

I've had an 01, SOT stamp and an 03, and this seemed like it was the norm.

And to the other topic... Every police department has an officier or detective who handles 01/03s, sometimes they'll ask that you come in to submit your FFL, but with C&Rs, all you generally need to do is walk up to the main counter, hand them the copy and say "Thanks!".

It's no big deal.

rorschach
07-08-2006, 3:43 PM
They charged my credit card in March and I haven't received anything yet.

UPDATE 7/25 : I finally got the little green envelope and big white envelope today. Swiss K31's, Mauser K98's and lots of Enfields await...

SVT_Fox
10-15-2006, 11:58 AM
ok guys its been DAYS since I sent the app out! does anyone have a phone number I can call? Im pretty sure something is wrong... almost 6 months!! AHHHH

Mssr. Eleganté
10-15-2006, 12:12 PM
They usually charge your card right away, then the wait begins. If you haven't even been charged the $30 yet then your application may have been lost in the mail.

Here is the contact info for ATF's National Licensing Center...

The National Licensing Center address is:

2600 Century Parkway NE
Suite 400
Atlanta, GA 30345

We may be reached by phone during regular business hours at: (404) 417-2750 or 1-866-662-2750.

Our fax number is: (404) 417-2751 or 1-866-257-2749.

Our e-mail address is: nlc@atf.gov

Keep in mind the the "regular business hours" they mention are on East Coast time. If the main operator transfers you to the person working on applications for your part of the country, try to get their direct phone extention so it will be easier to call them directly the next ten times. :)

SVT_Fox
10-15-2006, 12:22 PM
thank you soo much, man I hope its not lost in the mail! I have herd they charge the card when you get approved, I hope thats the case

icormba
10-15-2006, 2:35 PM
ok guys its been DAYS since I sent the app out! does anyone have a phone number I can call? Im pretty sure something is wrong... almost 6 months!! AHHHH

6 months is way too long!

SVT_Fox
10-22-2006, 7:13 AM
so after calling and leaving a message, then nevr getting a call back, then calling again, I find out they have no record of my app at ALL!!!! my envelope is lost somewhere. What the heck do I do guys....take it in the @$$ and start all over again!!!! im going to BREAK something im so mad!!! AHHIAJHJAGHJFAJYTF R*O(*&O(&^TN&*O&^O*Y*O(P*O:(&U(*

derek@thepackingrat.net
10-22-2006, 2:13 PM
Fortunately, completing the application isn't difficult or hectic. It's a lot less paper work than other processes I've seen. Just fill out another and wait it out. Better to do that now than hope it makes it. Send it certified next time so you know when it arrives.