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View Full Version : I've been eyeballing FN Five-Seven!!!!


mif_slim
10-08-2010, 10:30 AM
So, I want to ask those of you who have this gun, do you guys like it?! Im already looking for dies etc for reloading it! LOL.

I did research and the mags are only 26 bucks, the gun is a bit pricy but its not a problem.

leelaw
10-08-2010, 10:37 AM
I like my IOM. It's a fun plinking gun, if that's what you're looking for. I wouldn't plan on using it for self defense without 20rd or 30rd magazines, but would if it's my only choice.

gearhead15
10-08-2010, 10:42 AM
I concur. It's my favorite range gun now, and it's not bad for defense.

mif_slim
10-08-2010, 10:42 AM
I read a review on it that it comes with 3 mags?..I think it'll make major power factor from the numbers... 336-448PF. :) One questions though, would they let this caliber go for Production or Open?? If its even allowed for IPSC. lol

nazgulnarsil
10-08-2010, 11:01 AM
i don't understand the point of the 5-7.

Colt-45
10-08-2010, 11:16 AM
i don't understand the point of the 5-7.

I don't understand the point of: 25acp, 32acp, 10mm, 45 gap

but to each his own :D

Corbin Dallas
10-08-2010, 11:18 AM
i don't understand the point of the 5-7.

Same point as any other firearm, it shoots projectiles with lethal force.

Gallows
10-08-2010, 11:20 AM
Same point as any other firearm, it shoots projectiles with lethal force.

:rofl2:

That made my day.

85FourEyedGT
10-08-2010, 11:25 AM
One of the best guns I've ever shot! I've gotten 3 shots in an inch moa my first time shooting it at 25 yards

Huge bang, big fireball but no recoil ...awesome!

The Original Godfather
10-08-2010, 11:34 AM
Same point as any other firearm, it shoots projectiles with lethal force.

:rofl2:


It fires a round that has similar velocity of a .223, the energy transfer of 9mm, in a casing about the size of a .357mag, but with the felt recoil equal to or less than a .22LR that travels flatter than most (if not all) other handgun rounds.


I like it :D

macey109
10-08-2010, 11:37 AM
I took a class a few weeks ago and the instructor said there 2 weapons that continually do not make it through the 1,000 rounds in 2day

1- hi point
2- 5.7

I was seriouslly eyeballing one but after that comment I am out!!

nazgulnarsil
10-08-2010, 11:38 AM
:rofl2:


It fires a round that has similar velocity of a .223, the energy transfer of 9mm, in a casing about the size of a .357mag, but with the felt recoil equal to or less than a .22LR


I like it :D

<citation needed>

The Original Godfather
10-08-2010, 11:43 AM
<citation needed>

Pretty much everything in that statement can be wiki/googled for specs on the other rounds in the analogy. The part about felt recoil is my own experience.

nazgulnarsil
10-08-2010, 11:56 AM
http://www.brassfetcher.com/SS195%20FMJ%20and%20SS197%20ballistic%20tip%20(bar e%20and%20heavy%20clothing).html

http://www.brassfetcher.com/FN%20SS195%20lead-free%20FMJ.html

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1209.html

I can't find anything that indicates anything other than that the 5.7mm has terrible penetration in soft targets.

Steve G
10-08-2010, 11:59 AM
I took a class a few weeks ago and the instructor said there 2 weapons that continually do not make it through the 1,000 rounds in 2day

1- hi point
2- 5.7

I was seriouslly eyeballing one but after that comment I am out!!


:rolleyes:

mif_slim
10-08-2010, 12:03 PM
I took a class a few weeks ago and the instructor said there 2 weapons that continually do not make it through the 1,000 rounds in 2day

1- hi point
2- 5.7

I was seriouslly eyeballing one but after that comment I am out!!


Did he give reasons why or is he bias like a lot of folks who don't like hi-point?

Cyc Wid It
10-08-2010, 1:10 PM
Maybe if you had full capacity magazines... otherwise meh.

robcoe
10-08-2010, 1:17 PM
Nice gun, I would buy one if I could get the 20 and 30 round magazines. Without those I would rather shoot .22lr at the range and use my .357 for defense.

bernieb90
10-08-2010, 1:34 PM
The Five-seven as i see it was designed to fill a very specific role. The P90 is intended as a PWD that can penetrate body armor. This is something that the MP-5 can't do with convetional loads, but can with AP. In order to accomplish this the 5.7mm round uses a very light bullet at a high velocity. As such the bullet will indeed penetrate all levels of soft body armor. However terminal performance is compromised. None of the commercially available loads will penetrate body armor. As such this advantage is moot. Almost all conventional service calibers from 9mm up will outperform the 5.7mm in tissue.

Please see:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

If you want the gun get it I have lots of stuff that is fun to shoot, with little other practical use. That is part of collecting firearms. The 5.7 would make an awesome trail gun, and no bunny, or squirrel would be safe within 50yds.

mif_slim
10-08-2010, 2:38 PM
^ that was my initial intention. Use it for varmint if it's accurate.

jessegpresley
10-08-2010, 3:30 PM
Did he give reasons why or is he bias like a lot of folks who don't like hi-point?

What I took from that post is that the two guns mentioned malfunction/become inoperable before the training session was over.

A major point to the FiveSeven is that a soldier need to carry only 1 type of ammo for both is service rifle (P90) and hand gun. Easier for the soldier, and more importantly easier for logistical support.

It's interesting to note that HK's version of the FiveSeven pistol, the UCP, was cancelled due to questions about ballistic performance from the handgun, which is precisely what is questioned about the FiveSeven.

I bought a FiveSeven over a year ago, along with 1,000 rounds of SS192. I haven't shot it, and don't really plan to. Just a fun toy to have. My range time consists of 9mm, 45, 357.

SixPointEight
10-08-2010, 3:37 PM
^ that was my initial intention. Use it for varmint if it's accurate.

I thought minimum caliber for ipsc was 9mm or above, so I don't think you can use the 5.7, look it up to be sure.

mif_slim
10-08-2010, 4:53 PM
^ stop trying to ruin my dreams! Lol ;)

Whatisthis?
10-08-2010, 5:14 PM
I have looked at this gun so much... but there is no way I have or will have the money, so it's just a dream for me. Two reasons I would say don't get it. 1) price of the gun and ammo... if you can reload and bring the cost of ammo down, then that's fine, just be aware of the price. 2) Not too many places have the 5.7mm ammo which won't be good come February.

If you already have a gun for each of the purposes you would like and also have money to blow, I would go for it. Another thing I notice is that many of the ones being sold used, aren't that much cheaper, if at all cheaper than a brand new one, so if you buy it then put 400-500 rounds through it and don't like your purchase anymore, you could sell it for what I would imagine to be a minimal lose.

nazgulnarsil
10-08-2010, 5:16 PM
if you want a badass out of the ordinary gun for critters and competition how about a 10mm?

mif_slim
10-08-2010, 5:28 PM
One reason is because I travel slot out of state, so the 20rd short mag doesn't sound like a bad idea. Hehe. So far...

Sunday
10-08-2010, 5:31 PM
Underpowered and makes a too small of a hole in the target.

85FourEyedGT
10-08-2010, 6:30 PM
cant people just buy guns because theyre cool anymore ? or does EVERYTHING have to have some sort of tactical value in this imaginary warzone we live in?

FUBAR
10-08-2010, 6:32 PM
I think there is a $200 rebate on the FNH Five-Seven.

immaculate
10-08-2010, 6:33 PM
i LOVE mine. it's a great way to teach beginning shooters how to shoot due to the very light recoil. I don't find the rounds to be prohibitively expensive ($20-24 for a box of 50 - similar to .45acp) and it's just a lot of fun as a plinking toy.

Sunday
10-08-2010, 6:37 PM
cant people just buy guns because theyre cool anymore ? or does EVERYTHING have to have some sort of tactical value in this imaginary warzone we live in? Well the Ruger 22/45 is way too cool and is cheap and fun to shoot.

bernieb90
10-08-2010, 6:39 PM
cant people just buy guns because theyre cool anymore ? or does EVERYTHING have to have some sort of tactical value in this imaginary warzone we live in?

We were just responding to the posters suggesting that the Five-Seven would somehow be a good option for SD/HD. Of course people can buy guns with little, or even no practical value other than being fun to shoot.

nagorb
10-08-2010, 6:47 PM
cant people just buy guns because theyre cool anymore ? or does EVERYTHING have to have some sort of tactical value in this imaginary warzone we live in?

Seriously! I've got a few .22s and AKs that will never be used in any "tactical" situation. I only have two guns, 12g and S&W 686 that might sometime have to be used in an unfortunate HD situation, other than that my gun are bough for purely fun. I have no visions of me knocking down doors, blowing zombies heads off, or evading an invading foreign/domestic force.

Falstaff
10-08-2010, 10:10 PM
Well, as to the gun training class experience, and I really don't like to bag on a gun I have no personal experience with, let me say this: During the class competition at the end of the 4 day class at frontsight, the guys with fivesevens didnt have a chance! The competition involved shooting reactive steel plates that would fall when hit (they had to fall in order for you to go to the next plate). The fiveseven has so little energy apparently it wouldnt trip the mechanism so the poor guys were blasting away at the plates, but they didnt trip the mechanism unless they hit it right at the top. I overheard the instructors remarking on the guns performance "Guess that answers the stopping power question about the 5-7!" Perhaps with the proper AP ammo one could argue that the steel plates with HOLES in them would have to be scored as hits!

That being said, i still want one!(though I'm waiting for them to come down in price first)

NORCAL#1
10-08-2010, 10:30 PM
First I do have a F@N 5.7 as well as an upper in 5.7. I personally like the round,It was designed for guys like fighter pilots shot down behind enemy lines! You don't have to carry a full size rifle and still can penetrate light body armor. Falstaff is 100% right about shooting metal plates. I HATE TO USE THIS REFERENCE but look at what gun/round that *** hole used in the Fort Hood shooting!!! RIP to the people that lost their life's to that loser. Just my 2 cents if you like the gun go get one

Whatisthis?
10-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Underpowered and makes a too small of a hole in the target.

compared to what? It easily holds itself compared to a 9mm and is actually probably better

Whatisthis?
10-08-2010, 10:39 PM
I know it's just phone books, but come on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxZrzigoK4

7anthony7
10-08-2010, 10:42 PM
I have owned my 5.7 for about 5 years or so. When they first came out I bought it along with a couple thousand rounds of ammo. I have put over 1k in a day down the pipe with no issues whatsoever. The others I know personally who have them also have never had issues. I carry it when I am hunting for that coyote that might just be asking to be turned into a mount in my living room. Very accurate, very light, devestating to anything from a groundhog to a coyote. I don't know what the instructor was refering to, but I can't confirm what he is talking about. Then again, I don't always try to justify the guns I buy. On another note, I have always had trouble reloading these little guys. I think I am just used to bigger rounds.... borrow one and buy it if you like. I will never sell mine.

NORCAL#1
10-08-2010, 10:49 PM
Do you reload for 5.7 that is one of the only rounds that i don't reload? I have heard some bad stories?

Whatisthis?
10-08-2010, 10:57 PM
Don't mean to post things from other forums, but it is the FNH forum, so it's sort of obvious they will have stuff... First one, another 5.7 vs 9mm comparison. Second, a thread on reloading(I haven't read through it but hopefully it's helpful)

http://fnforum.net/bullet-test-tube-test-on-the-ss192-t4780.html

http://fnforum.net/i-want-to-reload-5-7x28mm-t999.html

Buddhabelly
10-08-2010, 11:03 PM
I like my FN5.7. It shoots fine. The gun itself, I'm conjecturing, has more plastic than a Glock, has a terribly hard trigger and the safety is way too far forward that you can not operate it with your thumb. You would have to engage/disengage with yout your trigger finger, or the thumb of the support hand. Aside from some of these idiosyncracies, it's a fine shooting gun. At my range, shooting at reactive plates 100 yards out, I could make the telltale "ploink" sound with every hit, not so with any of the 9. It seems to me that the MUCH higher velocity of the 5.7 x 28 rounds and flat bullet trajectory can do things a 9 x 19 can't. Yes the guy who said that it wouldn't knock a steel popper down may be right, but human targets are not steel and being hit with bullet, no matter how small traveling over 2000 fps and 390 ft lbs will hurt you plenty.

If anyone wants to buy Elite ammunition for the 5.7, they'll go through 30+ layers of Kevlars. Out of a pistol. Try that out for size with most of the other calibers.

Sunday
10-09-2010, 4:56 PM
:rofl2:


It fires a round that has similar velocity of a .223, the energy transfer of 9mm, in a casing about the size of a .357mag, but with the felt recoil equal to or less than a .22LR that travels flatter than most (if not all) other handgun rounds.


I like it :DEnergy transfer???? what is that and what does it really mean, besides a number?

hammerhands32
10-09-2010, 5:59 PM
I sold my 5.7 but I would not have felt unprepared armed with it. I had it as mybedside gun for awhile. For those claiming it serves no purpose for sd, no pistol does. Do your research and you'll see that the best pistol is the one you use the best. Reliabilty wise I had multiple light strikes when I first bought the gun but that went away after about 300 rounds.

P.S. Never sell your guns to pay bills. The bills come again next month but now you have no guns.

Squidward
10-09-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm not a fan of the way it looks, or location of the controls but it shot without malfunction. The sights,however, are atrocious.

Blownmotor
10-09-2010, 10:16 PM
They have the low profile version night sights.

Cali-Shooter
10-09-2010, 10:32 PM
The only real thing that keeps me from buying an FN 5-7 can best be summed up in one word.
Magazines.

G**D*mn this state.

eccvets
10-09-2010, 11:04 PM
i don't understand the point of the 5-7.

if you dont understand it, you had better give all of your guns away (if you even really have any) as your a danger to yourself and everyone around you. dont even think about it, just do it cuz youll just hurt yourself if you try.

NORCAL#1
10-10-2010, 8:07 AM
One other benefit is that 4 box's of 5.7 ammo in the same size as 1 box of 0f 9mm or other calibers. If anyone is looking at buying one I would get the one with the C_MORE sights over the stock sights!

hk91666
10-10-2010, 8:23 AM
:rofl2:


It fires a round that has similar velocity of a .223, the energy transfer of 9mm, in a casing about the size of a .357mag, but with the felt recoil equal to or less than a .22LR that travels flatter than most (if not all) other handgun rounds.


I like it :D

.223 or 5.56mm is 3,000 fps 5.7=1,670-1,980 fps This statement I do not understand "similar velocity of a .223"

Reloading is a B*tch I owned one and reloaded for a year plus. Reaming primer pockets to get rid of factory crimps not fun more work. I sold mine and bought a CZ52 Cost $150.00, current ammo prices $.06 per round.

If you want a hot round & cheap, go with 7.62x25mm same ballistics as a 5.7, larger hole and cheaper too.

My two cents...

hammerhands32
10-10-2010, 10:50 AM
.223 or 5.56mm is 3,000 fps 5.7=1,670-1,980 fps This statement I do not understand "similar velocity of a .223"

Reloading is a B*tch I owned one and reloaded for a year plus. Reaming primer pockets to get rid of factory crimps not fun more work. I sold mine and bought a CZ52 Cost $150.00, current ammo prices $.06 per round.

If you want a hot round & cheap, go with 7.62x25mm same ballistics as a 5.7, larger hole and cheaper too.

My two cents...

223 at 300 yards equal to 5.7 at 10 yards. Similar balistics, not the exact same. As to the CZ, Id buy one of those also.

hk91666
10-10-2010, 10:56 AM
223 at 300 yards equal to 5.7 at 10 yards. Similar balistics, not the exact same. As to the CZ, Id buy one of those also.

We agree sold 'em and moved on BTW my bedside is a Taurus Tracker .44mag loaded with 44 special in the house.

shortround1
10-10-2010, 11:18 AM
cant people just buy guns because theyre cool anymore ? or does EVERYTHING have to have some sort of tactical value in this imaginary warzone we live in?

This is awesome, it should be a signature.

flyinghi
10-10-2010, 2:01 PM
Yah, the 5.7 looks sooooo cool but the price point keeps me out! For that I will go 10mm. It is, however, for sale in CA where the PMR-30 :43: wont be :(

Swift Justice
10-10-2010, 4:09 PM
I've owned my five seven for a year. In that time I have put 1000 rds through it. Never a failure of any kind during that time.

Everytime I go to the range everyone wants to shoot it. Even my don't-like-to-shoot-anything-but-a-Ruger MkII wife likes to shoot it.

Although it may not be the best choice for close range defense (its probably moving a tad too fast for close in work - probably better after it has travelled some and slowed down a bit) with Elite ammunition I wouldn't hesitate to use it for HD - 2 or 3 holes in someone from what is essentially a .223 shortened cartridge probably would be enough attitude adjustment to cause someone to stop whatever attack they were contemplating.

Small holes? No knock down power? Isn't that what experts have been saying for years about the 5.56 in the AR platform?

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-16-2010, 6:31 PM
compared to what? It easily holds itself compared to a 9mm and is actually probably better

It shoots a 23-31 grain bullet making it is essentially a .22 magnum. I don't see that as "holding itself" compared to a 9mm.

FUBAR
10-16-2010, 11:43 PM
Its the velocity of this round that makes it deadly. It has enough velocity to creat hydrostatic shock. Also if it behaves like a 5.56/223 it would become unstable when it impacts an human target making it tumble end over end.

Code7inOaktown
10-17-2010, 12:07 AM
Underpowered and makes a too small of a hole in the target.

I thought it actually has a fairly good track record in recorded shootings. And wasn't there an incident where .45 and .40 cal could not penetrate the cab of a big-rig but one officer who had a 57 did the job.

But yeah, for a civvie in Calif limited to 10 rounders...I'd rather have something else.

Whatisthis?
10-17-2010, 12:21 AM
Its the velocity of this round that makes it deadly. It has enough velocity to creat hydrostatic shock. Also if it behaves like a 5.56/223 it would become unstable when it impacts an human target making it tumble end over end.

ya, I've read it can tumble pretty easily after penetration. I know the 5.7 is just slightly more than a .22, but by that logic isn't a .223 just a longer .22? The size of the bullet matters, but if it can do more or the same amount of damage as a 9mm, then it's hard to call it "just a .22" as everyone says. I've already posted this link earlier in the thread, but check out how the 5.7 compares to a 9mm in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxZrzigoK4

vincentk
10-17-2010, 12:29 AM
I'd like one too, but the biggest thing turning my off is the fact that FN only sells "downgraded" ammunition, contradictory to the gun's purpose.

immaculate
10-17-2010, 2:55 AM
I got my 5.7 USG in 2006. Since then, I've put 9xx rounds through it without any type of malfunction - the ammo has been a mix of white box SS195, 197, the new blue-box SS195 and Elite Ammunition. While living out of state, I had a great time with the 30-rounders and the PS90. When limited to 10-rounders here in CA, i'll stick to my .45s for my bedside pistols but the 5.7 is a damn fun range toy. I bring it to the range with first time shooters all the time - the minimal recoil and great accuracy make it a pleasure to shoot.

checkenbach
10-17-2010, 1:41 PM
Two things, 9mm is the smallest caliber allowed in most gun games (IDPA, USPSA), there are at least 3-6 of these for sale at any given time in the for sale forum. Why is that ????
Just some food for thought, but if you must, ENJOY!!!!!

LazyBoy
10-17-2010, 2:00 PM
:rofl2:


It fires a round that has similar velocity of a .223, the energy transfer of 9mm, in a casing about the size of a .357mag, but with the felt recoil equal to or less than a .22LR that travels flatter than most (if not all) other handgun rounds.


I like it :D

This is the reason why I bought mine. Also it is the lightest and most accurate handgun I own. And no recoil.

Forewarned
10-17-2010, 2:04 PM
[QUOTE=checkenbach;5141903]ammo is HELLA expensive!!!!!!!,QUOTE]

Ammo for this gun is hardly "HELLA expensive", look around SS197 is roughly the same price as .40 s&w. I don't hear people say that about .40 though.

norm365
10-17-2010, 2:40 PM
Iím interested in the 5.7 also, I have a question does the round fragment on impact with drywall and do they frangible ammo in 5.7.

checkenbach
10-17-2010, 4:54 PM
Forewarned, edited. I saw some ammo for 35.00 a box at a few local money grabber stores and that's what the previous statement was based. Searched a bit, found it much cheaper online.

immaculate
10-17-2010, 6:29 PM
Forewarned, edited. I saw some ammo for 35.00 a box at a few local money grabber stores and that's what the previous statement was based. Searched a bit, found it much cheaper online.

I've seen it at priced high, too, but much more commonly I see it for anywhere between $20-$25 per box of 50, which I don't consider to be really expensive. Turners sells the SS197 for $23.99/50 as of last week I think.

axhoaxho
10-17-2010, 6:50 PM
I bring it to the range with first time shooters all the time - the minimal recoil and great accuracy make it a pleasure to shoot.

Agreed. The Five-seveN is also a very nice choice for ladies. It is light-weight, and the recoil is mild. It shoots straight, and the slide is easy to work on even with smaller hands. With EA ammos, it packs enough punch. And with rounds like SS197, it is cheap enough (about $20/50-rounds) to have fun practicing at the range.

Regards,

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd162/axhoaxho/fn57ad.jpg

Shenaniguns
10-17-2010, 7:56 PM
The Five-seven as i see it was designed to fill a very specific role. The P90 is intended as a PWD that can penetrate body armor. This is something that the MP-5 can't do with convetional loads, but can with AP. In order to accomplish this the 5.7mm round uses a very light bullet at a high velocity. As such the bullet will indeed penetrate all levels of soft body armor. However terminal performance is compromised. None of the commercially available loads will penetrate body armor. As such this advantage is moot. Almost all conventional service calibers from 9mm up will outperform the 5.7mm in tissue.

Please see:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

If you want the gun get it I have lots of stuff that is fun to shoot, with little other practical use. That is part of collecting firearms. The 5.7 would make an awesome trail gun, and no bunny, or squirrel would be safe within 50yds.



Good link, from a real Ballistic expert :cool2:

DocGKR:

FN 5.7 x 28 mm
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm projectiles fired by the FN P90:

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

A few large U.S. LE agencies adopted 5.7 mm weapons--after being involved in several OIS incidents with P90's, 5.7 mm usage in these agencies plummeted as a result of the poor terminal performance.

It is all basic physics and physiology. Look at the surface areas in contact with tissue for 9 mm FMJ and JHP compared to 5.7 mm. When both are point forward, the 9 mm FMJ crushes more tissue than the 5.7 mm; for the short time that the 5.7 mm is at FULL yaw, it crushes a bit more tissue than the 9 mm FMJ. At no time does the 5.7 mm crush more tissue than the expanded 9 mm JHP--even when the 5.7 mm FMJ is at full yaw, an expanded 9 mm JHP crushes more tissue. The relatively small temporary cavities produced by both the 9 mm and 5.7 mm projectiles are not likely to cause significant injury to the majority of elastic structures of the body. As with any penetrating projectile, if either a 9 mm or 5.7 mm bullet is ideally placed to cause significant damage to the CNS or major cardiovascular organs, a fatal result is likely.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/9mm_vs_57mm.jpg

The P90 can definitely penetrate soft body armor, but then so can 9 mm AP rounds. The greater momentum of 9 mm bullets allow them to defeat vehicles and other intermediate barriers better than the 5.7 mm bullets. Standard 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP JHP loads crush more tissue, offer ideal penetration, and are equally likely to not exit the opponent as the 5.7 mm. 5.56 mm and 6.8 mm weapons offer significantly superior terminal effects compared to 5.7 mm. Bottom line—what does the P90 offer that is not already available?


More:

Thank you Todd!
I have been watching this thread with some interest, as the information is out there, yet a lot of folks are ignoring it...
As Todd mentioned, 5.7 mm has a very narrow niche use when used in the full auto P90. If 5.7mm floats your boat, great; however, I have seen and been briefed on way too many failures to trust 5.7mm for general use or self-defense when other better options exist for semi-auto weapons.

blackfalcon
10-17-2010, 10:20 PM
To each their own. I like my 5.7. One thing about the 5.7 is that it can shot more accurately than a 9 mm at further distances. My Sig p226 in 9mm is deadly accurate up to 25 yards, at 50 yards my target looks pretty much like a shotgun hit it. The 5.7 can pretty much still hold a tighter group at 50 yards.

I have shot the regular blue SS197 round at an old bullet proof vest and it did penetrate the front panel and tumbled into the back panel. However, when I shot the Elite Ammunition's penetrator (55 grain ball ammo) the bullet went through both the front and back panel in roughly the same spot, so the bullet did not tumble. Powerful stuff that ball ammo, but don't think I would use that ammo as SD round, as it is too powerful.

Whatisthis?
10-17-2010, 11:54 PM
Good link, from a real Ballistic expert :cool2:


lmao. Fine, I know my source wasn't a real expert or anything. I got my *** handed to me on this one. Anyways, I understand it's not better than a 9mm, but I just have trouble believing that it doesn't do much damage compared to a 9mm, especially if it tumbles, and that's where I am getting my basis from. I understand what you are saying just by pure size and expansion of a 9mm compared to a 5.7, but if the 5.7 tumbles or turns even a little bit, it's still gonna do quite a bit of damage. And when I said it holds itself against a 9mm or whatever, i wasn't trying to imply it is better, but everyone just says it does nothing compared to a 9mm and I have trouble believing that. That's just my opinion.

Shenaniguns
10-18-2010, 6:59 AM
lmao. Fine, I know my source wasn't a real expert or anything. I got my *** handed to me on this one. Anyways, I understand it's not better than a 9mm, but I just have trouble believing that it doesn't do much damage compared to a 9mm, especially if it tumbles, and that's where I am getting my basis from. I understand what you are saying just by pure size and expansion of a 9mm compared to a 5.7, but if the 5.7 tumbles or turns even a little bit, it's still gonna do quite a bit of damage. And when I said it holds itself against a 9mm or whatever, i wasn't trying to imply it is better, but everyone just says it does nothing compared to a 9mm and I have trouble believing that. That's just my opinion.


You want to read up on Ballistics then follow articles from the guy DocGKR, so you can get a better idea what goes on. There's much more on the topic there, but I'm not searching for it :)

mif_slim
10-18-2010, 7:42 AM
Man, I started this thread asking about how it shoots. I didn't ask on how well it kills someone. I'm using it for target and self-defense against squirrels!
I don't need it to expand more then a 9mm or knock down poppers. I just want one for fun!

Wait, I can't have any of those these days right? It has to be for defense! My bad.


On another note, I shot it, I love it, I'm buying it.

Whatisthis?
10-18-2010, 8:19 AM
Just saw one in the market place for $800 in Sacramento. I don't know how much they go for new though.

Enjoy the gun!

GTXR390
10-18-2010, 8:52 AM
i have one...still can't shoot it very well, but i don't spend enough time going to the range.

i don't regret buying it, sweet pistol to shoot =]

Oceanbob
10-18-2010, 9:28 AM
Man, I started this thread asking about how it shoots. I didn't ask on how well it kills someone. I'm using it for target and self-defense against squirrels!
I don't need it to expand more then a 9mm or knock down poppers. I just want one for fun!

Wait, I can't have any of those these days right? It has to be for defense! My bad.


On another note, I shot it, I love it, I'm buying it.

The 57 is a fun weapon.....you will enjoy it. I plan on keeping mine; my daughter loves it. (she's 13).

Even with the (out of State) 30 round magazine chock full, she is incredibily light weight. Almost like a plastic toy. hahah..

You can get some more serious, high performance ammo from:

http://www.eliteammunition.net/eliteammunition.html

For self defense the word for me is Glock 29....sometimes Glock 23...depends on my mood. ;)

Enjoy..!

eccvets
10-18-2010, 2:28 PM
what we should do is to get some prisoners/lifers and a few different guns and see which gun does a better job on real humans.

MidnightSon117
10-18-2010, 3:28 PM
Man, I started this thread asking about how it shoots. I didn't ask on how well it kills someone. I'm using it for target and self-defense against squirrels!
I don't need it to expand more then a 9mm or knock down poppers. I just want one for fun!

Wait, I can't have any of those these days right? It has to be for defense! My bad.


On another note, I shot it, I love it, I'm buying it.

You're gonna get so many opinions on here, but since you fired it already, you know why you like it. Get it!

In regards to that instructor talking about two guns failing, one of them being a 5.7...well I just don't agree with that. I'll tell you from personal experience it's way more reliable than my Kimber, right up there with my 226. I've had a USG for almost 5 years now, fired 192, 195, 196, 197. All functioned flawlessly, NEVER had a failure of any kind. I've fired 200 in one session. I've fired over 1200 rounds now without cleaning. Not a thing. Double, triple, mag-dumps, you name it. 192 and 195 in my experience will also keyhole. We did some firing tests in gelatin through a cardboard box, and they will yaw pretty consistently. Small entry, but more damage to come.

It's a FUN gun to shoot, and the sights are fine, 10-rounders or not. I know some folks will tell you there are 20 round mags that can't be bought in CA, but so what? A SIG 226 can use 18-round mags, but am I gonna avoid the 226 because I can only buy 10-round mags? Please. :rolleyes:

If you can manage it, it'll reach out and touch someone. The only problem is getting brass if you wanna reload. The 5.7 spits out the brass out and to the right. If you're indoors, the brass will land beyond the firing line, unless you stand way back. If you're outdoors maybe you have a better chance, but it really kicks the brass out there. Have fun with it!!

SoCal Gunner
10-19-2010, 1:29 PM
Man, I started this thread asking about how it shoots. I didn't ask on how well it kills someone. I'm using it for target and self-defense against squirrels!
I don't need it to expand more then a 9mm or knock down poppers. I just want one for fun!

Wait, I can't have any of those these days right? It has to be for defense! My bad.


On another note, I shot it, I love it, I'm buying it.

Good for you!

A great resource for the 5.7 round, reloading, and firearms is fivesevenforum.com. Go register, introduce yourself, and start reading!