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View Full Version : A little new, a little confused; SW M&P's


Requiem
10-08-2010, 8:20 AM
I've been browsing these forums and various internets for the past week looking for a new pistol to serve my purposes (A duty/defense type pistol that could, if needed, be concealed carry as well). I've been looking into the FNP 9s, S&W M&Ps, and Beretta PX4s, and I'm about to shoot all three later today to make my decision. Anyways, to the point...

I'm trying to understand the whole handgun list/roster thing. Mainly in dealing with the [new] M&P pistols. The question is, if I want to purchase an M&P pistol, must it have a "mag disconnect/safety"? For example, would this pistol from Bud's Gun Shop be rebuked from CA because it has "no manual safety"? : http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/38990

Sorry for being a newb, but I appreciate the help guys.

huck
10-08-2010, 8:41 AM
Any new pistol you buy needs to be on the roster.

Some of the pistols on the roster do not have loaded chamber indicator/magazine disconnect because it wasn't part of the law when they were put on the roster.

You can read about it here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List#New_Requirements):

Requiem
10-08-2010, 8:46 AM
Some of the pistols on the roster do not have loaded chamber indicator/magazine disconnect because it wasn't part of the law when they were put on the roster.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. If the S&W M&P's were on the roster before that requirement was put into place. Looking through the DOJ handgun roster in the Smith & Wesson section is a real pain in the ***.

pacrimguru
10-08-2010, 8:47 AM
i have an M&P9 and an M&P45 and love them both. so much that i haven't shot my Glock 17 in a long time. any California vendor will have CA approved pistols for sale, so no worried. there are CA approved M&P's in all calibers.

pacrimguru
10-08-2010, 8:48 AM
couldn't help it, must post picture to try to draw in a new M&P shooter...

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/MP9/1bfc210f.jpg

:D

RobG
10-08-2010, 8:49 AM
You can get one without the mag disco, and the huge white letters on the slide stating such, through a PPT. Thats if you can find one. Just be certain the pistol you buy is on the "safe list" before purchase. Or better yet, buy local and support your Kalifornia gun stores.

iareConfusE
10-08-2010, 8:58 AM
Like RobG said, you can buy one without a mag disconnect safety, but it'll have the ugly writing on the side of the frame that tells you that the firearm can be discharged without a magazine inside of it. I opted to instead purchase the one with the magazine disconnect. If you really want to, you can easily remove the magazine disconnect later on - it isn't difficult at all.

pacrimguru
10-08-2010, 9:00 AM
that's what i did. i removed my mag disconnect, it only took like 15 minutes and didn't cost anything. the disconnect makes it nearly impossible to do shooting exercises and drills.

iareConfusE
10-08-2010, 9:04 AM
that's what i did. i removed my mag disconnect, it only took like 15 minutes and didn't cost anything. the disconnect makes it nearly impossible to do shooting exercises and drills.

Yep,

What spring did you replace the gap with? I just used the spring from a retractable ball point pen, lol.

Requiem
10-08-2010, 9:06 AM
that's what i did. i removed my mag disconnect, it only took like 15 minutes and didn't cost anything. the disconnect makes it nearly impossible to do shooting exercises and drills.

well, shoot... if it's that easy why the hell do I care. Thanks a bunch, guys. Wish me luck deciding my next firearm!

pacrimguru
10-08-2010, 9:08 AM
Yep,

What spring did you replace the gap with? I just used the spring from a retractable ball point pen, lol.

yea, i used a spare AR spring that i had cut to fit. a ballpoint pen spring sounds perfect!

well, shoot... if it's that easy why the hell do I care. Thanks a bunch, guys. Wish me luck deciding my next firearm!

good luck! it better be an M&P! :rolleyes:

map
10-08-2010, 10:00 AM
good luck. if you get an M&P update us with range reports.

jumpthestack
10-08-2010, 10:02 AM
I did the same, removed the mag disconnect and used a clicky pen spring. There are instructions on doing it here:
http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P2.htm

iareConfusE
10-08-2010, 10:19 AM
Woop, just finished installing the USB part of the DCAEK. I now have the full DCAEK. Before I didn't think I needed the USB, so I only had the hard sear, the sear plunger spring, and trigger spring from the kit. I still don't really think the USB is completely necessary, but it does remove the grittiness from the trigger pre-travel. It doesn't seem to effect how the trigger breaks, or anything that would adversely affect your shot, but simply cleans it up.

9mmepiphany
10-08-2010, 11:07 AM
now all you need is Apex's RAM

someone was joking the other day, that Apex's goal was to replace all the internals with optimized parts, except for the barrel...for that you'd have to go to Bar-Sto

iareConfusE
10-08-2010, 11:29 AM
now all you need is Apex's RAM

someone was joking the other day, that Apex's goal was to replace all the internals with optimized parts, except for the barrel...for that you'd have to go to Bar-Sto

When is the RAM coming out?

9mmepiphany
10-08-2010, 12:45 PM
They've been shooting it in matches as the final field test and there is a module being tested by LE trainers

Legasat
10-08-2010, 2:32 PM
good luck. if you get an M&P update us with range reports.

Heck, update us with whatever you choose! Lots of pics is always appreciated ;)

Requiem
10-08-2010, 2:53 PM
Got a chance to shoot a px4, an m&p, and a sig. Gotta say that the beretta has a difficult safety so that ruled that one out. The sig was nice but I'm not a huge fan of the controls or the hammer factor. The fnp wasn't there (apparently the guy I asked on the phone thought I was asking about their for sale guns, not range rentals). The m&p was awesome. I felt there could be a better trigger but that's easy to change/upgrade I've heard. I'm disappointed that they didn't have the fnp. I guess I'll have to find one at another range and shoot it. The downside I foresee [for me] is the first long da trigger pull. I'll probably end up getting an m&p. That said, I need to work on my pistol marksmanship :)

Shenaniguns
10-08-2010, 3:05 PM
They've been shooting it in matches as the final field test and there is a module being tested by LE trainers


And other independent reviews "may" come out before it is released ;)

iareConfusE
10-08-2010, 3:29 PM
Got a chance to shoot a px4, an m&p, and a sig. Gotta say that the beretta has a difficult safety so that ruled that one out. The sig was nice but I'm not a huge fan of the controls or the hammer factor. The fnp wasn't there (apparently the guy I asked on the phone thought I was asking about their for sale guns, not range rentals). The m&p was awesome. I felt there could be a better trigger but that's easy to change/upgrade I've heard. I'm disappointed that they didn't have the fnp. I guess I'll have to find one at another range and shoot it. The downside I foresee [for me] is the first long da trigger pull. I'll probably end up getting an m&p. That said, I need to work on my pistol marksmanship :)

I've got a friend that has an FNP9 that I shot before I purchased my M&P. The FNP9 is an excellent gun, but I don't like the way the grip feels. It definitely isn't as ergonomic as the M&P is, and what I hate most about it is that when you grip the gun with both hands, your right thumb rests right on top of the decocking lever, which is placed towards the rear, instead of in front of the slide release like in Sigs.

That being said, the FNP9 functions great, and has an amazing trigger right ouf of the box, at least in my opinion. It takes a bit of modification to get the M&P trigger smooth and light, but the FNP9 trigger, although a bit mushy, is smooth and has a crisp break, with no lateral movement due to trigger over travel.

What made me purchase the M&P over the FNP9 was the lower bore axis, and the ergonomics of the gun. While the FNP9 functioned great, the felt recoil was definitely more violent than from the M&P, with a significantly larger muzzle flip reaction. I also was able to find the M&P on sale at Turners for around $550, so I wen't to On-Target and had them do a price match for me. In total, with tax and DROS, it was $633.13, but I also submitted a $50 mail-in-rebate slip to S&W (instead of the two free magazines - the gun already comes with two), knocking the overall price down to $583.13, for a brand new M&P.

Right now at On-Target, the regular price for an M&P is sitting at $699.99, without tax and DROS, so I'd say I got a pretty good deal.

chesterthehero
10-08-2010, 3:37 PM
my girls m&p9 gets out of gun jail in about an hour.. shes not happy about the disconnect since it screws up drills and shes also not a big fan of sticking her fingers into an open slide.. if i can talk her into removing it ill see if i can do a video..

9mmepiphany
10-08-2010, 4:25 PM
When is the RAM coming out?

Newest update

The World Wide release date has been set as Nov. 1

Shenaniguns
10-08-2010, 5:07 PM
Newest update

The World Wide release date has been set as Nov. 1

Well at least I know I'll have it by then lol

Droc101
10-08-2010, 5:52 PM
I love my M&P 40, especially after I learned to shoot it properly and stopped trigger slapping. Bad index finger! Bad! :)

evolixsurf
10-08-2010, 8:12 PM
my girls m&p9 gets out of gun jail in about an hour.. shes not happy about the disconnect since it screws up drills and shes also not a big fan of sticking her fingers into an open slide.. if i can talk her into removing it ill see if i can do a video..

why would you have to put your fingers in the chamber?!?

There is no safety on almost all of these guns. The mag safety is the smartest thing since sliced bread... :cool:

Droc101
10-08-2010, 8:45 PM
why would you have to put your fingers in the chamber?!?

There is no safety on almost all of these guns. The mag safety is the smartest thing since sliced bread... :cool:

He wants to be able to pull the trigger to dissasemble. You typically have to push down the yellow decock lever in the body of the magwell in order to dissasemble. A lot of people forget that you can utilize the tool/grip release that is stored in the grip to flip it down.

Shenaniguns
10-08-2010, 8:49 PM
why would you have to put your fingers in the chamber?!?

There is no safety on almost all of these guns. The mag safety is the smartest thing since sliced bread... :cool:



Yeah you enjoy your may safety lol

missiondude
10-08-2010, 9:07 PM
He wants to be able to pull the trigger to dissasemble. You typically have to push down the yellow decock lever in the body of the magwell in order to dissasemble. A lot of people forget that you can utilize the tool/grip release that is stored in the grip to flip it down.

You can pull the trigger to dissasemble, or use the lever. The mag safety is easy to remove as everyone else said, you just need the how to instructions, a spring, and roll pin punches. I use a ballpoint pen cap to push the breakdown lever, rather than the tool in the frame.

Shenaniguns
10-09-2010, 7:23 AM
Review part 1
http://thepackingrat.net/2010/10/09/smith-wesson-mp-9mm-a-transformational-overview/ (http://thepackingrat.net/2010/10/09/smith-wesson-mp-9mm-a-transformational-overview/)


http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/78a30cc7.jpg

Austin794
10-09-2010, 8:13 AM
Hi guys, I work for a armored car company here in NorCal. and we just switched to the S&W MP40. We were using S&W 4046 TSWs. I seemed shoot to the 4046 really well but was excited to switch to the M&P because I own Glocks and train with them just as much as I did with my duty weapon. But when I started training with the M&P my groups were all over the place. I'm not a new shooter I've taken many tactical pistol coureses on my own unfortunatly only with my Glocks(Brinks won't let me train with their guns). Is this something anyone else has had an issuse with?

Shenaniguns
10-09-2010, 8:28 AM
Hi guys, I work for a armored car company here in NorCal. and we just switched to the S&W MP40. We were using S&W 4046 TSWs. I seemed shoot to the 4046 really well but was excited to switch to the M&P because I own Glocks and train with them just as much as I did with my duty weapon. But when I started training with the M&P my groups were all over the place. I'm not a new shooter I've taken many tactical pistol coureses on my own unfortunatly only with my Glocks(Brinks won't let me train with their guns). Is this something anyone else has had an issuse with?


Yes, it's the crunchy inconsistent trigger that made me my sights move to the upper right after the break. Apex's DCAEK fixed that http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

chesterthehero
10-09-2010, 7:45 PM
took the m&p9 out today for the first time.. few hundred rounds later...

I:
-do not like the way the gun chambers a round for me after a fresh mag.. if it was a feature i would like it.. the fact that it does it as a flaw makes me not like it
-do not like the trigger.. the LOP feels long and "crunchy inconsistent" is a perfect description.. maybe it will get better with time
-dont like the sights or the way it fits my hand... then again this is why its my girls gun and not mine...

my girl:
-does not like the way it chambers a round with a fresh mag.. though it only did it a few times for her.. it does it every time for me
-does not dislike the trigger so far.. she ok with it and wants to see if it improves as the roundcount rises
-shes pretty accurate with it.. she does not like the sights very much either..


my glock.. as always.. was flawless :)

Jimmy310
10-10-2010, 11:43 AM
took the m&p9 out today for the first time.. few hundred rounds later...

I:
-do not like the way the gun chambers a round for me after a fresh mag.. if it was a feature i would like it.. the fact that it does it as a flaw makes me not like it
-do not like the trigger.. the LOP feels long and "crunchy inconsistent" is a perfect description.. maybe it will get better with time
-dont like the sights or the way it fits my hand... then again this is why its my girls gun and not mine...

my girl:
-does not like the way it chambers a round with a fresh mag.. though it only did it a few times for her.. it does it every time for me
-does not dislike the trigger so far.. she ok with it and wants to see if it improves as the roundcount rises
-shes pretty accurate with it.. she does not like the sights very much either..


my glock.. as always.. was flawless :)

How is the m&9 chambering a round wrong? If the slide is locked back, eject the empty mag, insert a new mag, and push the slide release. If your girl is having trouble with the slide release, she can manipulate the slide to chamber a round. What i like about the m&p's slide is it feels more solid than the glocks. Maybe its because of the blocky feel.

I agree the trigger is kinda mushy and gritty, but its pull is lighter than alot of other pistols including the h&k usp.

The sights on the pistol are very similar to novak sights. This style sight gives pistols the longest sight radius from the rear sight all the way back on the slide to the front sight. Most m&p shooters will say their m&p's are super accurate. The removable backstraps that come in 3 sizes should make the m&p "fit like a glove" when you use the right one.

Requiem
10-10-2010, 11:58 AM
How is the m&9 chambering a round wrong? If the slide is locked back, eject the empty mag, insert a new mag, and push the slide release. If your girl is having trouble with the slide release, she can manipulate the slide to chamber a round. What i like about the m&p's slide is it feels more solid than the glocks. Maybe its because of the blocky feel.

He's talking about how if you insert a mag quickly and forcefully after the slide locks to the rear, it will automatically send the slide home because of the force you are putting on it. I personally think it's an advantage in a combat situation. My mil issued pistol (Beretta) does the same thing IIRC

chesterthehero
10-10-2010, 6:45 PM
He's talking about how if you insert a mag quickly and forcefully after the slide locks to the rear, it will automatically send the slide home because of the force you are putting on it. I personally think it's an advantage in a combat situation. My mil issued pistol (Beretta) does the same thing IIRC

this is exactly what im talking about.. there is no "slide release" on a M&P.. there is a "slide stop assembly" which some would use as a slide release.. the propper method is to pull back on the slide and release it allowing it to "slam" foward under its own power..... but we all know this..

if you gently push a fresh mag till it locks into place nothing happens.. if you insert a mag like a normal person it releases the slide and chambers a round... this is not a feature it is a malfunction..

Blackhawk556
10-10-2010, 9:28 PM
my m&p9c does not load the next round when i insert the mag with force.

only some M&Ps do?

I even slapped it in there several times to try and get the slide to close on its own and it never did, i had to pull the slide and release every time

for some reason i was more accurate with my M&P9c than i was with my g17.

iareConfusE
10-10-2010, 9:38 PM
My M&P9 does this. I don't see it as a malfunction, I just don't mind.

Fate
10-11-2010, 9:18 AM
... this is not a feature it is a malfunction..

So under what scenario would you ever desire to load a fresh magazine into a pistol and then keep the pistol unloaded with slide locked back? I'm trying to understand why THAT would be a feature? Don't want it loaded? Don't load it.

Personally, I like the fact that my reloads are much faster with my M&P than my other handguns. It's one more reason that M&Ps are my HD/SD pistols of choice.

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 9:21 AM
What my buddy figured out which I will confirm when I get it back:
http://thepackingrat.net/2010/10/09/smith-wesson-mp-9mm-a-transformational-overview/

Others have also reported slide auto-forward. I consistently experienced this at an introduction to Steel Challenge at Gun Blogger Rendezvous 2010. I was not accustomed to this. I initially thought it was a mechanical error; however, discovered it’s the placement of my index finger. During reloads, I rest my finger along the frame, just below the ambidextrous slide catch. Inserting a new magazine, I often slam it through the magazine well to ensure it’s securely seated. Anticipating the force, I alter my shooting grip slightly, which evidently rolls my index finger up. Is that weird? I imagine this might be true for other shooters.

Droc101
10-11-2010, 10:49 AM
The first upgrade you need to do is the apex DCAEK trigger kit. After that you will love that M&P.
What I did for the fit of the gun was post three targets up next to each other and then I proceeded to use a different grip for each target. I find that the largest of the three is my favorite (recoil handling and accuracy). My girl prefers the small.
As for the Auto-Slide, I'm with everyone else, if you don't want it loaded then don't load it. Also, it does not take a lot of force to put the mag in the gun, use less force and the slide wont slide forward. I experimented with this on my .40 and I find that it only happens if I try to 'slam' in the mag.

Kodemonkey
10-11-2010, 10:58 AM
He's talking about how if you insert a mag quickly and forcefully after the slide locks to the rear, it will automatically send the slide home because of the force you are putting on it. I personally think it's an advantage in a combat situation. My mil issued pistol (Beretta) does the same thing IIRC

Yep, the M&P is not the only kid on the block with this "feature". My HK USP9 does it as well. I actually don't mind it - it may sometime give me the extra second I need during a reload. It sure doesn't bother me in IDPA.

Droc101
10-11-2010, 11:06 AM
Yep, the M&P is not the only kid on the block with this "feature". My HK USP9 does it as well. I actually don't mind it - it may sometime give me the extra second I need during a reload. It sure doesn't bother me in IDPA.

Hey kode, how does one get involved with IDPA?
pardon the :threadjacked:

Kodemonkey
10-11-2010, 11:32 AM
Hey kode, how does one get involved with IDPA?
pardon the :threadjacked:

I'd start here:
http://www.idpa.com/

Check out the local members. You do NOT need to join IDPA for most clubs (some will give a discount). My advice is "try before you buy".

If you were in SoCal I would point you to a few clubs. Honestly - start a new thread and people can give advice about it in your local area. I really enjoy it - I was so bored of shooting at paper targets and steel that I stopped shooting except maybe once every other year. Now I go once a month, sometimes twice. It's a lot of fun and you don't have to drop $5K on a race gun.

jimaro
10-11-2010, 2:35 PM
I absolutely totally love the fact the slide automatically loads my next round when slamming the mag home...why would you not want it toooooooooooooooooooooooooo load, in leo training years ago I was always taught the best loaded round was the one you drop the slide on....so have always dropped the slide to load the next round anyways.........

chesterthehero
10-11-2010, 4:18 PM
the ONLY reason i dont like it chambering a round for me is simply that it was not designed to do so... its a malfunction no matter how you look at it even if its a malfunction in my favor..

Shenaniguns
10-11-2010, 4:39 PM
the ONLY reason i dont like it chambering a round for me is simply that it was not designed to do so... its a malfunction no matter how you look at it even if its a malfunction in my favor..

You do know many other guns including Glock does this as well right? Some easier than others.

9mmepiphany
10-11-2010, 4:45 PM
the ONLY reason i dont like it chambering a round for me is simply that it was not designed to do so... its a malfunction no matter how you look at it even if its a malfunction in my favor..

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have to wonder about your adamant statement. How do you know what the design specs were for this handgun?

I doubt the factory would have sent out a gun...especially this far along in their production...that was that far out of spec. I would think that since it is a slide stop, it's design purpose would be to allow/assist in locking the slide to the rear when pushed up by and empty mag or when pushed up by thumb as the slide is racked backward.

I would certainly call it a malfunction if it did not stop the slide from closing on an empty magazine, but once a full magazine is inserted that function is completed. It simply stays in place until the slide is dislodged either by racking it again...or in this case, by upward displacement due to the normal play between the frame rails and the slide rails.

Even 1911s will do this

Bukowski
10-11-2010, 8:33 PM
Trigger was my only complaint, fortunately that's easily rectified.

chesterthehero
10-11-2010, 9:09 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have to wonder about your adamant statement. How do you know what the design specs were for this handgun?

I doubt the factory would have sent out a gun...especially this far along in their production...that was that far out of spec. I would think that since it is a slide stop, it's design purpose would be to allow/assist in locking the slide to the rear when pushed up by and empty mag or when pushed up by thumb as the slide is racked backward.

I would certainly call it a malfunction if it did not stop the slide from closing on an empty magazine, but once a full magazine is inserted that function is completed. It simply stays in place until the slide is dislodged either by racking it again...or in this case, by upward displacement due to the normal play between the frame rails and the slide rails.

Even 1911s will do this

ive got wrenches that make great hammers.. its not what they were designed for but they do it and do it well..
i know its not a feature by reading the paperwork that came with it as well as the s&w site.. if it was a feature that was kept on the DL someone somewhere would have said "o hai.. s&w wants this to happen.. heres a link to them saying so".. this isint the in&out secret menu its a firearm.. if its a selling point it would be used as one not just some hidden easter egg that only some know about..

ive yet to ever have another handgun do this.. im aware it does happen but its always a malfunction.. i do not know every manufacturers selling points and i do not know of any that list this as a feature..

if it was a feature when i was showing a new shooter how to load the gun i would not have said "wtf.. hangon thats not supposed to happen.. wtf.. that didnt happen the first XXX times i loaded this thing.. wtf is going on here".. i would have said "ok the m&p does something that not all semiauto handguns do.. on most blahblahblahblah"

:beatdeadhorse5:


as for the slide stop/release... loss of fine motor skills under stress.. its bad training.... if you never plan to fire under stress then go for it.. even cartoons understand this.. theres a reason the "abort" button is often big, red and flashing... when stuff goes sideways fine details go out the window.. if you dont get this then you are either one cool cat or you have never been pushed to your fight/flight level.. im by no means some combat/tactical/shtf expert but i have hit that level and after it was over i discovered that extreamly simple tasks were impossiable..
:beatdeadhorse5:

"I doubt the factory would have sent out a gun...especially this far along in their production...that was that far out of spec" once the issue is resolved ill post a thread about the .45 kahr that jams every few rounds, crushes casings, and impales rounds with the ejector regaurdless of who fires it.. its been back to the factory twice and both times they have done some serious work that changes a lot and fixes nothing.. but thats another thread...

9mmepiphany
10-11-2010, 10:21 PM
as for the slide stop/release... loss of fine motor skills under stress.. its bad training.... if you never plan to fire under stress then go for it.. even cartoons understand this.. theres a reason the "abort" button is often big, red and flashing... when stuff goes sideways fine details go out the window.. if you dont get this then you are either one cool cat or you have never been pushed to your fight/flight level.. im by no means some combat/tactical/shtf expert but i have hit that level and after it was over i discovered that extreamly simple tasks were impossiable..

I'm sure there was some point to this, but I must be missing it. I t sounds like you're saying that under stress, your fine motor skills deteriorate and you can't use you slide stop to release the slide when doing a mag change...in that case, I would think you would welcome the slide closing as you slam the full mag into the gun. I personally teach using the overhand grab to release the slide as a more tactically sound technique.

FWIW (and I'm not sure what bearing it has in this discussion): I have experience with fight/flight and retained my ability to operate my trigger (which is a fine motor skill)

surfinguru
10-12-2010, 9:19 AM
Another M&P owner checking in. I've got the full size 9mm and yes, my slide will "auto-forward" IF I slam the fresh magazine in with a forward motion. (45deg or so?) My strong hand finger placement has nothing to do with it. If you're disciplined enough to insert the new magazine straight into the magwell, it won't do it and you'll have to rack the slide manually. Anyway, that's my experience to date.

3k+ rounds and counting....

pingpong
10-12-2010, 1:30 PM
this is exactly what im talking about.. there is no "slide release" on a M&P.. there is a "slide stop assembly" which some would use as a slide release.. the propper method is to pull back on the slide and release it allowing it to "slam" foward under its own power..... but we all know this..

if you gently push a fresh mag till it locks into place nothing happens.. if you insert a mag like a normal person it releases the slide and chambers a round... this is not a feature it is a malfunction..

Weird, I've never have this happen to me before. It could be the slide lock is worn out and barely holding the slide back?

Requiem
10-12-2010, 4:08 PM
Another M&P owner checking in. I've got the full size 9mm and yes, my slide will "auto-forward" IF I slam the fresh magazine in with a forward motion. (45deg or so?) My strong hand finger placement has nothing to do with it. If you're disciplined enough to insert the new magazine straight into the magwell, it won't do it and you'll have to rack the slide manually. Anyway, that's my experience to date.

3k+ rounds and counting....

Travis Haley teaches the same method with his M&P pistol in magpul's "art of the dynamic handgun"

chesterthehero
10-12-2010, 4:29 PM
Weird, I've never have this happen to me before. It could be the slide lock is worn out and barely holding the slide back?

nope... it was new on friday.. first rounds (other than at the factory) on saturday when it started doing it... twice while my girl was shooting it failed to hold open with the empty mag.. i loaded and fired a single shot 30 times and could not get it to do it for me.. so were not calling this a failure as of yet.. if we can get it to happen with someone other than her shooting it then we will see...

im by no means poopooing the m&p.. it does seem to have some issue/flaws/quirks though... im going to try and take it out again this weekend and give it some attention.. time will tell.. so far im not willing to make this my bump in the night gun...

ale014
10-14-2010, 9:21 PM
the ONLY reason i dont like it chambering a round for me is simply that it was not designed to do so... its a malfunction no matter how you look at it even if its a malfunction in my favor..

OK we're about to get off topic..SORRY OP

anyways i totally agree with chesterthehero and where he's coming from about the slide being a malfunction, makes sense to me.

whether its a malfunction or not, i like it.

I also understand why chesterthehero does not like it, since we can all agree that it's a great feature that allows us to send bullets down range faster, it is not universal with all semi auto firearms. The most useful and basic way to chamber a round into a semi auto pistol i believe is to rack the slide, all semi auto pistols has this feature. If I'm wrong than sh*t i don't know guns.

I believe the idea behind what chesterthehero is trying to say is that if someone keeps using the M&P and training with it, not racking the slide will cause training scars. e.g What if someone gets in a scenario where he/she has to use a pistol to defend his or her's life, or loved ones. that person isn't using a M&P but another weapon; goes to reload and pull the trigger but wait..forgets to rack the slide and nothing happens... Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

Anyways @chesterthehero, not sure if you tried this, but i noticed on my cousins M&P, if i don't aim my palm towards the back end (so w/o full palm my hand does not hit the end of magwell where the tool is located but misses it, where palm is more centered in magwell) it doesn't cause the slide to chamber. (watch magpul's dynamic handgun to get what i'm talking about. also watch if you want to know how to do it)Of course this is not the best way to reload, another training issue hopefully you know what i mean and give it a try.

ArkinDomino
10-14-2010, 10:11 PM
What if someone gets in a scenario where he/she has to use a pistol to defend his or her's life, or loved ones. that person isn't using a M&P but another weapon; goes to reload and pull the trigger but wait..forgets to rack the slide and nothing happens... Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.


If that really happened I would really doubt they took actual training...

J_Rock
10-15-2010, 12:58 AM
I would advise against using a pen spring. I had the sear disconnector flop around because the spring was too weak and cause my slide to lock up. I suggest using a stronger spring like a 1911 magazine release spring.

J_Rock
10-15-2010, 1:02 AM
ive yet to ever have another handgun do this.. im aware it does happen but its always a malfunction.. i do not know every manufacturers selling points and i do not know of any that list this as a feature..



Have you heard of the Beretta 92 AKA the M9 U.S. standard issue side arm?

Yeah it does it too...

If that really happened I would really doubt they took actual training...

This.

Ale014, How about instead of coming up with completely unrealistic scenarios use your brain. Unless the shooter was completely deaf and blind or have no tactile sense in their hands to tell them that the slide did not go forward, they would know to manually release the slide. If they are, well they shouldn't be using a firearm in the first place.