PDA

View Full Version : Who makes the best 1911?


GW
10-08-2010, 2:16 AM
Title says it all
The only rules are:
It is out of the box ie I don't have to ship it for tuning.
It must be available in CA

incredablehefey
10-08-2010, 2:17 AM
Ed Brown

i win

Cyc Wid It
10-08-2010, 2:30 AM
Valtro. I win.

gti_20ae
10-08-2010, 3:51 AM
Colt makes the best 1911. I win. All other manufactures are only 1911 style pistol.

swerv512
10-08-2010, 5:08 AM
Dont forget Les Baer and Wilson Combat- but neither I'd consider the "best"

itsthaiiii
10-08-2010, 5:24 AM
SIG Sauer !!!

Ascout
10-08-2010, 5:26 AM
Ginger or Mary Ann?

Ford or Chevy?

Bullwinkle
10-08-2010, 7:42 AM
Guncrafter Industries Model 1 in .50GI. Ain't nobody who can top that no matter how hard they try; ergo, I win hands down.

ocspeedracer
10-08-2010, 7:57 AM
Les Baer

zman
10-08-2010, 8:01 AM
Colt makes the best 1911. I win. All other manufactures are only 1911 style pistol.

At least NOT on this particular 1911 shoot-out ;)
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=286070

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-08-2010, 8:05 AM
RIA!!! oh ya. i went there.

JRJCP
10-08-2010, 8:24 AM
Nighthawk Custom

DaveFJ80
10-08-2010, 8:30 AM
GSG

Donny1
10-08-2010, 8:31 AM
Ginger or Mary Ann?

Mary Ann with a Colt 1911

Recession
10-08-2010, 8:49 AM
Rolls Royce!

http://www.remarkablecars.com/for-sale/data/3521/1911-rolls-royce-silver-ghost-18548.jpg http://www.remarkablecars.com/for-sale/data/3521/1911-rolls-royce-silver-ghost-18550.jpg

fullrearview
10-08-2010, 8:52 AM
Your mom....I WIN;):D

i kid i kid!

Fishslayer
10-08-2010, 9:04 AM
Ginger or Mary Ann?



Why, Jeannie, of course. All she wants to know is "How can I please you, Master?" :D

liketoshoot
10-08-2010, 9:09 AM
I like my steak rare with a few veggies on the side

ap3572001
10-08-2010, 9:18 AM
Title says it all
The only rules are:
It is out of the box ie I don't have to ship it for tuning.
It must be available in CA

Are You looking for a full size? Target shooting and defense? Price range?

Recession
10-08-2010, 9:19 AM
Why, Jeannie, of course. All she wants to know is "How can I please you, Master?" :D

My first ever "dirty" thought since being brought into this world was because of Jeannie. Jeanie wasn't the only thing that went "boiiinnnnggggg" when she disappeared. :p

Black Majik
10-08-2010, 9:23 AM
The one who is able to guarantee 1.5" at 50 yards. ;)

GW
10-08-2010, 9:23 AM
I'm looking at a defensive pistol so I will add DEFENSIVE
Who makes the best self-defense 1911
The most reliable and accurate.

Recession
10-08-2010, 9:26 AM
WILSON COMBAT!

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/wilson-ultralight-carry-45-acp.jpg

IceMan711
10-08-2010, 9:29 AM
I think the Springfield Professional is the only one that truly fits your criteria.

ap3572001
10-08-2010, 9:56 AM
I'm looking at a defensive pistol so I will add DEFENSIVE
Who makes the best self-defense 1911
The most reliable and accurate.

I would be looking for a STD 5 inch Les baer.

Wild Squid
10-08-2010, 10:38 AM
If I had $3000 to spend on any 1911 I'd be getting a Wilson Combat.

Plisk
10-08-2010, 10:44 AM
Wilson Combat Supergrade, or Springfield FBI custom. Both are very very high quality and require no-tuning out of the box. And are on-list.

I will not dare to say who is best, because honestly I don't believe it can be said.

ocspeedracer
10-08-2010, 10:45 AM
I would be looking for a STD 5 inch Les baer.

I miss read this one... maybe a 5" would help. I totally laughed though.

The TRS model is the way to go for a no non-sense self defense pistol, accuracy is guaranteed to be 3" at 50 yards.

Black Majik
10-08-2010, 10:47 AM
One thing to advise regarding the Baer, the standard bluing while it looks great will show wear pretty easily with use. If that bothers you, look into a different finish.

cineski
10-08-2010, 11:00 AM
Funny thing about the pro-Colt people, I keep reading how Colt's quality has gone into the dumpster. If I were going to buy a 1911 and cost was no object I'd be getting an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat or certain models of Nighthawk.

glockman19
10-08-2010, 11:31 AM
"There is no such thing as BEST in a world of individuals"

Best for you is not necessarily best for me and best for me is probably not best for others.

Sam
10-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Any semi custom maker would work. I love Wilson. See what makes you warm and fuzzy inside.

JanG
10-08-2010, 12:03 PM
if price were not an issue, why not go for a dlsports or harrison custom, etc...

Steyrlp10
10-08-2010, 12:23 PM
The one who is able to guarantee 1.5" at 50 yards. ;)

Yesssssss! :)

cmace22
10-08-2010, 1:01 PM
Ginger or Mary Ann?

Ford or Chevy?

Mary Ann with a Colt 1911

Mary Ann driving a Chevy rocking a Springer Pro!

sirgiles
10-08-2010, 1:22 PM
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu119/sirgiles_photo/BS40-1.jpg

zman
10-08-2010, 2:09 PM
The one who is able to guarantee 1.5" at 50 yards. ;)

Yesssssss! :)

+1 more ;)

willm952
10-08-2010, 2:12 PM
les-baer if you want super accurate; frame slide lockup is tight as can be without going full custombuild. sig looks very nice and great features for the price but they have this funky internal locking mechanism with a pin that has a tendency to fall out.

tacticalcity
10-08-2010, 2:14 PM
Difficult question to answer. Given the sticker price I don't have enough time on the really high end ones to know which one shines the most.

TOP END BEST OF CLASS, NEED MORE TRIGGER TIME TO DECIDE SO FOR NOW I'LL LUMP THEM TOGETHER...

Wilson Combat
Ed Brown (I'm leaning towards picking up the Special Forces model for myself because of the ones I can barely afford I really like it)
Nighthawk
Les Bauer

MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, RANKED IN THIS ORDER BUT COULD STILL USE SOME MORE TRIGGER TIME TO DECIDE...

Colt (mostly based on the brand name these days more than substance)
Kimber
Springfield
Sig Arms
Smith & Wesson
Para-Ordinance

BOTTOM OF THE BARREL...

Rock Island
Tarus

Trying to narrow it down further than that is just too difficult without 5K+ rounds down each. But if you're buyin' I'm down with and/or all of the above! ;-)

Deucer
10-08-2010, 2:18 PM
Springfield is best.

lehn20
10-08-2010, 2:20 PM
Les Baers are often out of spec and way to tight to really run. Plenty of gunsmiths out there will attest to that, if you ask around, since they end up fixing what Les Baer messed up.

My vote goes to the SA PROs. Best out-of-the-box 1911's available.

Ducman
10-08-2010, 2:28 PM
The one who is able to guarantee 1.5" at 50 yards. ;)

Les Baer

I would be looking for a STD 5 inch Les baer.

I miss read this one... maybe a 5" would help. I totally laughed though.

The TRS model is the way to go for a no non-sense self defense pistol, accuracy is guaranteed to be 3" at 50 yards.

Yesssssss! :)

+1 more ;)

les-baer if you want super accurate; frame slide lockup is tight as can be without going full custombuild. sig looks very nice and great features for the price but they have this funky internal locking mechanism with a pin that has a tendency to fall out.

they speak the truth!

chuckdc
10-08-2010, 2:58 PM
Les Baers are often out of spec and way to tight to really run. Plenty of gunsmiths out there will attest to that, if you ask around, since they end up fixing what Les Baer messed up.

My vote goes to the SA PROs. Best out-of-the-box 1911's available.

From my experience watching others run them, this is a valid point about the Baer guns. Ive seen several of them become choke-O-matics on the USPSA fields. I'd be really cranky if my new $3000+ Baer SRP wouldn't cycle Winchester white box ammo even after shooting 500 rounds for breakin. Seen it for reals.

Cyc Wid It
10-08-2010, 3:01 PM
No love for John Jardine and his Valtro? They're all built by him, locally, and it's on roster!

Ascout
10-08-2010, 3:03 PM
Springfield is best.

Well, as long as we have your word for it.:D

SnWnMe
10-08-2010, 3:04 PM
Smith and Wesson. It's called the 945. So utterly reliable.

SnWnMe
10-08-2010, 3:07 PM
No love for John Jardine and his Valtro? They're all built by him, locally, and it's on roster!

Valtro turned out to be so much vaporware.

jessegpresley
10-08-2010, 3:08 PM
If you can't buy one, it's a moot point.

No love for John Jardine and his Valtro? They're all built by him, locally, and it's on roster!

I pick up my Wilson Tactical Supergrade tomorrow morning. I suspect it will be at the top of most lists.

KillZone45
10-08-2010, 3:13 PM
Wilson Combat Supergrade, or Springfield FBI custom. Both are very very high quality and require no-tuning out of the box. And are on-list.

I will not dare to say who is best, because honestly I don't believe it can be said.

....and that is why I am saving to purchase a Wilson Combat Tactical LE, $2700+ will take me a few months for sure but I want a museum piece I can run hard.

Cyc Wid It
10-08-2010, 3:13 PM
Valtro turned out to be so much vaporware.

In some ways I suppose. It's got to be as close as you can get to a custom gun "out of the box" though.

Legasat
10-08-2010, 3:28 PM
Not counting custom 1911's,
Wilson
Ed Brown
Les Baer
Fusion
Nighthawk

If it was my $2500+, I would probably end up with a Wilson.

Just my $0.02

fennecfrank
10-08-2010, 3:28 PM
I had the same question last year. Went to several stores to handle and examine closely different "out-of-the-box", CA approved 1911's. I checked out Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawks, etc. I also talked to gunsmiths, they all seemed to have problems with Les Baer and Nighthawks. I finally decided on the Ed Brown Special Forces. however, I still felt something is missing after I got it and shot it.

After some research, I ordered a model 2 from guncrafter industries and waited 6 months for it. After I got it, I sold most of my 1911's, including 3 colts and that ed brown. The m2 from GI is solid, accurate and smooth. Other 1911 can't satisfy me as this one. I'm just not easily pleased with 1911's. I'm sorry but all other brands, if come "out-of-the-box", they can't compare beat Guncrafter Industries' quality.

You can see my M2 as my Avatar.

The owner and designer of GI is Alex Zimmermann, who won several world championships. I talked to him over the phone on several occasions. He's very humble, nice to talk to, and the best of all, he knows what he is doing.

Good luck on your hunt

Note: after I got my model 2, I went to Martin B. Retting, Inc. in Culver City. They have Ed Brown, Nighthawks, and Guncrafter Industries Model 1 and 2 in stock. Too bad I wasn't there earlier, or else I would have just get the GI Model 2 without buying the Ed Brown Special Forces first. Go check out that place if you ever come down to So Cal, they have a lot of nice guns in stock....

Sunday
10-08-2010, 5:50 PM
No, a Dan Wesson pointman is the best and I have mucho experience with 2 Wilson combats, a 70 Colt Gold Cup, A WWII match tuned in the 1960s Ithica that shoots as good as the Gold Cup. My 19 year oid son has shot them all over the years and he likes the Pointman the best as well. Mine has no MIM parts ,I am really not sure that it matters in general but in a 1911 it does. Now to put it in all proper perspective last summer I was able to try a 1911 full custom built compensated race gun... The trigger was light as a feather but it had a feel it wasn't put pressure on the trigger and bang and upon firing there was absoultely no and I mean no recoil or muzzle lift [Spookey to this marginal ability shooter] and the bullets seemed to want to go into the same hole in the target, most impressive. It was a 38 super .

J-cat
10-08-2010, 9:45 PM
Springfield Custom

J-cat
10-08-2010, 9:46 PM
Les Baers are often out of spec and way to tight to really run. Plenty of gunsmiths out there will attest to that, if you ask around, since they end up fixing what Les Baer messed up.

My vote goes to the SA PROs. Best out-of-the-box 1911's available.

How can you say that Baers are too tight to run when the Pro's are fitted even tighter?

pyromensch
10-08-2010, 9:48 PM
JOHN BROWNING


oh, you said make(s)!

Noah3683
10-08-2010, 10:07 PM
Nighthawk Custom

NiteQwill
10-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Springfield Pro

or

Springfield Custom

faterikcartman
10-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Valtro. I win.

I would have said this, but Jardine thinks he'll die before he gets to the end of his waiting list -- so classify this as unobtainium.

Next would be a Springer Pro, and I say that owning two Ed Browns.

GW
10-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Hmm there's a Springfield custom at my local gunshop Used
Only problem is the owner (Only guy who sets the prices) is on vacation for a week
The nerve...

zoglog
10-09-2010, 12:34 AM
Hi-point!

Capita159
10-09-2010, 1:09 AM
Ginger or Mary Ann?

Ford or Chevy?

Ginger in a White Chevrolet Corvette with a Wilson Combat CQB?
or
Mary Ann in a Red Ford F150 with a Wilson Combat CQB?

or yeah, Wilson Combat makes the best 1911

RT13
10-09-2010, 1:21 AM
Wilson - Just plain awesome! Perfect in every way. Wish I could own one. A+
Ed Brown - Almost as nice as the Wilson. A
Nighthawk - Very nice 1911! Smooth and super accurate. A
Les Baer - Nice and smooth and accurate but not like the top three. B+

Colt and Springfield definitely up there but depends on the models.

YourHuckleberry
10-09-2010, 1:44 AM
Hi-point!

:smilielol5:

speeedracerr
10-09-2010, 1:48 AM
COLT ;)

82A1CAL
10-09-2010, 2:18 AM
Wilson SG: Finish A++, Fit A+, Function A+, Feel A+, Price B 4K
Les Baer SRP: Finish A+, Fit A+, Function A+, Feel A, Price A 2.2K
Nighthawk Predator: Finish A+, Fit A+, Function A+, Feel A+, Price B+ 2.7K
Ed Brown ET: Finish A+, Fit A , Function B (my gun have ftf), Feel A+, Price B 2.6K
Springfield PRO: Finish A, Fit A-, Function A+, Feel A, Price B 2.6k
Colt gold cup 80: Finish C, Fit C, Function C, Feel C, Price A+. 1K

Bulleh
10-09-2010, 2:45 AM
what you're missing is YOUR price range. sure there's a ton of 1911's on the roster (even if we're limited compared to other states), but if you're willing to spend $3k, just get the most expensive gun you can find on the roster! I can guarantee you won't be disappointed if money is not an issue. If you are on a budget like 99% of all other cal-gunners are, let us know so we can help you find whats the best bang for your buck.

fennecfrank
10-09-2010, 8:27 AM
a little background information: Wilson Combat is the "parent" of at least 2 companies: nighthawk and guncrafter industries.

nighthawk was formed by a group of people who were sick and tired of the management of wilson combat. they left the company and formed their own at a place not that far from wilson combat (i remember it's in the same town, but my memory could be bad). guncrafter industries was formed by one of the heads of wilson combat custom shop to pursue his dream: .50 GI in a 1911 platform.

personally, i love the unique and cool renovation from both newer companies. the design of nighthawk predator and t3 look really cool. the quality of GI is really nice and the concept of .50 GI is brilliant.

you think you like .45 ACP?? wait until you've shot the .50 GI. You'll fall in love right away.

Psypher
10-09-2010, 12:15 PM
From my experience watching others run them, this is a valid point about the Baer guns. Ive seen several of them become choke-O-matics on the USPSA fields. I'd be really cranky if my new $3000+ Baer SRP wouldn't cycle Winchester white box ammo even after shooting 500 rounds for breakin. Seen it for reals.

This made me chuckle. I'm not saying all Les Baer's are perfect or that they don't have thier problems, but what your saying made me laugh. I have a Baer and run nothing BUT Winchester 100 round value packs (white box) thru it. 4300 rounds and counting without 1 failure. I also have multiple friends that run Baers and use the same ammo no issue. My personal experience has been nothing like the one you have stated, and I own one.

With that said, my vote goes for Baer. 1.5" at 50 yards out of the box. No other major company can say that without work done to them. They may not overall "feel" as good as a Brown or Wilson, but at half the price, it is hard to argue.

jessegpresley
10-09-2010, 12:42 PM
1.5" at 50 yards out of the box. No other major company can say that without work done to them. They may not overall "feel" as good as a Brown or Wilson, but at half the price, it is hard to argue.

The 1.5" at 50 yard guarantee is an additional fee of about $500, I would consider an extra charge of $500 "work done".

Your Premiere II with the Super Tac package is $2.3k, which is not "half the price" of 99% of the guns available by Brown or Wilson.

Tommy-gun-justin
10-09-2010, 5:20 PM
all 1911 brands are good.i like ria's because there
cheap and reliable.you can mod them with wilson combat.much better than other brand 1911's
with wilson parts

Plisk
10-09-2010, 6:05 PM
....and that is why I am saving to purchase a Wilson Combat Tactical LE, $2700+ will take me a few months for sure but I want a museum piece I can run hard.

We have one of those on consignment right now. Less than 100 rounds fired, $2400.

hawkeye
10-09-2010, 6:14 PM
Colt makes the best 1911. I win. All other manufactures are only 1911 style pistol.

Don't you mean Browning?;)

Springfield is my favorite!:wub:

TMC
10-09-2010, 6:16 PM
Infinity

http://www.sviguns.com/photo_gallery/153.jpg

J-cat
10-09-2010, 7:21 PM
The 1.5" at 50 yard guarantee is an additional fee of about $500, I would consider an extra charge of $500 "work done".

Your Premiere II with the Super Tac package is $2.3k, which is not "half the price" of 99% of the guns available by Brown or Wilson.

This 1.5" thing only applies to the lot of ammo used to test the gun. It does not mean it will shoot 1.5" with every box of ammo you get.

Jonl
10-09-2010, 7:33 PM
Ed Brown....

foxtrotuniformlima
10-09-2010, 7:45 PM
Infinity



Todd nailed this one ! :)

Many do not know about these as they tend to be thought of as more a competition gun but, IMHO, you will not find a better 1911 pattern gun and this one is one the CA DOJ list to boot.

http://speedshooter.com/images/SVPS1911.jpg

otteray
10-09-2010, 7:47 PM
My very basic Springfield GI goes "bang" every time and it hits where I am pointing.
Reliable.
It serves it's purpose very well, at a reasonable price.

Bill Steele
10-09-2010, 9:16 PM
I held a Valtro today.

Is is for sale, so you can actually buy one, albeit used.

Kind of a religous experience that.

Psypher
10-09-2010, 10:36 PM
The 1.5" at 50 yard guarantee is an additional fee of about $500, I would consider an extra charge of $500 "work done".

Your Premiere II with the Super Tac package is $2.3k, which is not "half the price" of 99% of the guns available by Brown or Wilson.

I know people that have spent way less then 2.3k for a TRS Baer. Not sure where you got that price from. Considering my PII was $1400.00 along with the 1.5", I'd say yes, yes it is half the price. You cannot quote retail and expect that everyone paid that :p

Dhena81
10-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Para or RIA

jessegpresley
10-10-2010, 12:13 AM
I know people that have spent way less then 2.3k for a TRS Baer. Not sure where you got that price from. Considering my PII was $1400.00 along with the 1.5", I'd say yes, yes it is half the price. You cannot quote retail and expect that everyone paid that :p

TRS aren't offered with the 1.5" option. My point is that no Les Baer shoots 1.5 "out of the box" like you contend unless you pay an extra $500.

A PII Super Tac MSRP is $2.3k. Even if you got it as $1.4k it's not twice the price many have paid for a Wilson. It is assumed most don't pay MSRP, but comparing MSRP vs MSRP is the easiest.

To the original question; nobody makes the best 1911. But lots of people make really good 1911s. You already know the usual suspects.

Colt-45
10-10-2010, 12:16 AM
COLT

Black Majik
10-10-2010, 12:23 AM
Not sure how Colt, Para and RIA are mentioned in a thread amongst Wilsons, Baers, Browns, Rock Rivers, Nighthawks, and SA PROs.

Dhena81
10-10-2010, 3:54 AM
If I was to buy a new top dollar 1911 it would either be the Springfield Pro or a Nighthawk GRP Recon. Does anyone here know what you get when you pay for a Wilson Combat supergrade I mean don't they sell painted 870's for 1200 bucks too.

leoffensive
10-10-2010, 7:42 AM
any 1911 that stays true to original design is all you need. noo need in spending over 1000 bucks for a frilly willy fancy smancy 1911 that any $400 1911 will do just as well. remember its a tool, not a piece of jewlry

t0kie
10-10-2010, 8:31 AM
Hard to say "The BEST", because some companies do make a fine 1911's nowdays & it's also depending on how much do we want to spend, and taste (like when we choose Nike or Reebok for example).

I personally only own Springfield because they make great 1911s & have a great customer service, but others like Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, etc also make great 1911s.

My 2 cents: try to feel & shoot some & decide which one fits you best.
________
affair Cams (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/housewives/)

J-cat
10-10-2010, 9:23 AM
Para or RIA

How do you figure?

HumanBeingExpert
10-10-2010, 10:38 AM
My Les Baer has NEVER misfed any ammo, period.

J-cat
10-10-2010, 11:32 AM
Mine neither. Come to thing of it, Neither my Colt, Baer, or Springer ever misfired of malfunctioned. But then again my ammo is hand made and awesome.

Ironspirit
10-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Kimber CDPII

Sam
10-10-2010, 12:36 PM
any 1911 that stays true to original design is all you need. noo need in spending over 1000 bucks for a frilly willy fancy smancy 1911 that any $400 1911 will do just as well. remember its a tool, not a piece of jewlry

For some, part of the beauty of such 1911s is the fit and finish.

I too wonder how some can seriously even think about throwing in RIA, Colt, Kimber, Springfield, Para when Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown, SA Pro, Valtros are being discussed. People are being delusional when they think RIAs and the like are somehow subjectively better than the semi or custom makers.

Dhena81
10-10-2010, 1:44 PM
How do you figure?

It was a joke

Ascout
10-10-2010, 3:50 PM
Kimber CDPII

I'd never suggest that any brand is the best (suggesting that one is would be nothing but a silly assertion), but I have one of these also and there is no way I'm going to mine go. Very pleased with it.

J-cat
10-10-2010, 4:12 PM
I'd never suggest that any brand is the best (suggesting that one is would be nothing but a silly assertion)

Why?

Ascout
10-10-2010, 8:43 PM
Why?


Because there is simply no objective, empirical basis for claiming that one is "best". It's a silly question. Every manufacturer has products representing a range of quality and specs. There will be examples from the excellent material, high quality workmanship examples that are marginal in actual function just as well as there will be fine pieces from low cost manufacturers that performs as well as fine tuned pieces. They are machines...and everybody makes a lemon now and then. And every low cost builder puts out a certain number of exemplary examples. There is no such thing as a "best item for all users". Start stacking tolerances and even Rolls Royce builds a certain number of dogs.

Everything else is a lot of adolescent fanboy worship...."my brand is better than your brand". Heck, after spending a certain amount of dough, congnitive dissonance will dictate that those spending more believe they have the "better" product, because they have to justify the outlay to themselves. The phenomenon is well known.

Phillips
10-10-2010, 8:48 PM
I just got home from the range. I shot my friends springfield armory trophy match. It was flawless, i could locate and fire at the steel targets as if it was my finger. i found my self fireing rounds quicker then i can with my glock, taurus, smith, or xd. The trigger is amazing, and the gun was stock out of the box. I really hope there is a better gun out there, but i cant imagine how.

GrinderCB
10-10-2010, 8:55 PM
Ginger or Mary Ann?

JEANNIE!!!

J-cat
10-10-2010, 9:20 PM
Because there is simply no objective, empirical basis for claiming that one is "best". It's a silly question. Every manufacturer has products representing a range of quality and specs. There will be examples from the excellent material, high quality workmanship examples that are marginal in actual function just as well as there will be fine pieces from low cost manufacturers that performs as well as fine tuned pieces. They are machines...and everybody makes a lemon now and then. And every low cost builder puts out a certain number of exemplary examples. There is no such thing as a "best item for all users". Start stacking tolerances and even Rolls Royce builds a certain number of dogs.

Everything else is a lot of adolescent fanboy worship...."my brand is better than your brand". Heck, after spending a certain amount of dough, congnitive dissonance will dictate that those spending more believe they have the "better" product, because they have to justify the outlay to themselves. The phenomenon is well known.

So everyone gets an "A" for participating. Who are you to eliminate the concept of "best"? We here in the real world believe that there is a hierarchy in consumer products and some brands are better than others. For example, BMW makes better cars than KIA. They have better fit and finish, better performance, etc. A lack of perfection does not disqualify a brand from this status.

Sam
10-10-2010, 10:14 PM
So everyone gets an "A" for participating. Who are you to eliminate the concept of "best"? We here in the real world believe that there is a hierarchy in consumer products and some brands are better than others. For example, BMW makes better cars than KIA. They have better fit and finish, better performance, etc. A lack of perfection does not disqualify a brand from this status.

I completely agree. It is very easy to say a Wilson is better in every aspect than a RIA. Refusing to believe one can be better than another seems like an attempt to keep your Springfield or Kimber from being labeled as not as good as another.

Saying one is the best is an entirely different topic. I'd agree it would be impossible to do this.

Ascout
10-11-2010, 4:48 AM
So everyone gets an "A" for participating. Who are you to eliminate the concept of "best"? We here in the real world believe that there is a hierarchy in consumer products and some brands are better than others. For example, BMW makes better cars than KIA. They have better fit and finish, better performance, etc. A lack of perfection does not disqualify a brand from this status.

See "cognitive dissonance" and "fanboys". You may suffer from either or both of the condidtions. :D

bayboydray408
10-11-2010, 11:32 AM
only one kimber was mentioned lol, there that bad?

Black Majik
10-11-2010, 1:44 PM
only one kimber was mentioned lol, there that bad?

Kimbers are not bad, they're just not in the same league as WC, NH, LB, EB, RRA etc..

badmonkey
10-11-2010, 1:48 PM
I'm looking at a defensive pistol so I will add DEFENSIVE
Who makes the best self-defense 1911
The most reliable and accurate.

in that case, i say RIA tactical commander length.

they're reliable, accurate enough, and having a $500 gun seized for evidence and possibly never returned is easier than having a $3000 gun seized and never returned.