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kenc9
05-31-2006, 2:50 PM
This is an unissued not a rebuild CZ52, these have one of the hottest military loads 7.62x25 and has claims of being able to penetrate level three body armor.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/3IMG_1060.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/2IMG_1058.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/1IMG_1057.jpg

timmy8151
05-31-2006, 4:03 PM
Nice CZ! Where did you get yours from? I bought mine from JG Surplus and got a decent gun.

kenc9
05-31-2006, 4:08 PM
Found mine when they dried up 6 months ago at http://www.blackbeararms.com/specials.htm

Now they are back and every where again. But this one is new old stock and alot of what you find has the rebuild mark on them.

-ken

fal_762x51
05-31-2006, 11:51 PM
The 7.62x25 will only penetrate level 2 armor.

kenc9
06-01-2006, 1:17 PM
The 7.62x25 will only penetrate level 2 armor.

The article I was reading said that the tests and data they were using was of the early armor type and now even Level 11A will stop it.

However which the 7.62x25 is a pretty bad boy somewhere between a .357 and a .44.

-ken

-hanko
06-01-2006, 5:24 PM
Now they are back and every where again. But this one is new old stock and alot of what you find has the rebuild mark on them.

-ken
Iirc, the 'X' in front of the sn on the right side of the gun means that Century fixed an issue with the safety...I can probably find more info if you're curious.

What is "the rebuild mark"??

thanks

-hanko

-hanko
06-01-2006, 5:26 PM
However which the 7.62x25 is a pretty bad boy somewhere between a .357 and a .44.

-ken
I'd tend to rate any defensive cartridge as to its percentage of one shot stops. The 7.62 is faster but I can't imagine it as a primary defensive caliber.

-hanko

kenc9
06-01-2006, 5:39 PM
We are talking about a 139.00 pistol, but reloaded with hollow points instead of the FMJ loads it should really do some damage.

When I get the reload stuff I'll be playing around with it. VOZ is the rebuild mark.

-ken

kenc9
06-01-2006, 5:50 PM
Iirc, the 'X' in front of the sn on the right side of the gun means that Century fixed an issue with the safety...I can probably find more info if you're curious.

What is "the rebuild mark"??

thanks

-hanko
It is a Z on the left side in front of the serial number.

-ken

-hanko
06-01-2006, 7:19 PM
It is a Z on the left side in front of the serial number.

-ken
Thanks for the pic.

-hanko

saki302
06-01-2006, 9:17 PM
Though I also own a CZ52 and a Tokarev in 7.62x25, I don't buy into the necked-down defensive cartridge deal.

I'd feel much better armed with a 9mm +P or +P+ in JHP than the 7.62x25 in JHP. Why? simple- it makes a bigger hole! Energy figures look good, but they are deceiving. Look up Gel tests of the .32/25NAA calibers compared to standard .380/.32ACP. The energy figures look good, but wound volume, penetration, and recovered diameter are all superior on the non-necked down rounds. Keep it simple- look at the bottom line :D

Shoot it and enjoy it for what it is- but there's no doubt the old cartridge is obsolete..
In terms of penetration, I tested an old Level IIA panel- the 7.62 buzzed through most of the time, but then the 9mm +P+ Hirtenberger subgun ammo buzzed thorugh virtually all of the time out of my Glock 19...

-Dave

kenc9
06-02-2006, 8:48 AM
This is a pistol from the 50's, it is a C&R, for enjoyment, target shooting and plinking or whatever. If your called to protect the president or something there are better ways to go. :D
Every weapon has its place and won't handle every situation. I wouldn't use my .22 for self defense either but I have fun with it just the same.

I have never seen tests for these with JHP's but with all the velosity it should make a whole, this is just conversation, not an arguement for or against anything.

All the tests I have seen they penatrate with a straight small hole with FMJ ammo.

-ken

maxicon
06-02-2006, 10:08 AM
I'd agree - it's a plinker, not a serious defensive gun, and not only because the ammo is obsolete with few modern designs available.

Here's my standard CZ52 post:

The CZ52 is fun, but not very practical. It's heavy, not very ergonomic, the grips are big and awkward, the sights are terrible, the trigger is poor unless you do mods that disable safety features, the ammo selection is limited, the firing pin breaks easily with dry-firing, and the firing pin block doesn't work when it's a little bit out of battery. Magazines are relatively expensive for such an inexpensive gun. Mine has a nasty trigger slap that makes my finger go numb, but not all of them do.

On the plus side, they're cheap, easy to disassemble and clean, you can improve the grips with a Handall slip-on. They're loud, with nice muzzle flash (depending on the ammo), milsurp ammo is cheap (but corrosive). Much of the milsurp ammo has hard primers and requires a double-strike, but they're good for clearing exercises!

There's also quite a bit of doubt about the tribal knowledge of how strong the actions are, as there are semi-regular reports of one blowing up. There's a fellow on the 'net who likes to test guns to destruction, and he found the CZ52 chamber failed before the brass did, which is unusual.

Mine's pretty much a safe queen these days, and an ugly one at that. There's a reason they're so cheap. Heck, I bet my 9mm barrel is getting to be worth what the gun is, now that you can't get them any more!

max

saki302
06-02-2006, 10:20 AM
I have read from multiple sources that the Tokarev action is much stronger- it's surprising when you hold the two side by side- the CZ feels like a tank compared to the Tok :)

-Dave

kenc9
06-02-2006, 10:38 AM
Yup! Your post is pretty accurate. These CZ52 or actually VZ52
(VZ) which merely means model or version. These were built along the same lines as the 1896 Mauser pistol.

The cartridge reflected an attitude then common in Europe and elsewhere, of the pistol as a kind of small rifle; the Mauser even came with a detachable wooden shoulder stock.

My strategy with buying current imports are nothing is cheaper and as soon as they are sold out, normally they jump 100.00. Also the day of buying a collectable pistol in the 100.00 range will be over soon.

These are just old Com Block pistols that are interesting to collect, study their design, and shoot.

OT

My two carry guns are either my .40 96 Beretta or my East German Makarov's.
The 96 is I mostly carry with me on trips gun the Mak is good for me any time. Small, nice round, and I can shoot it well.

Under 50 yards nothing beats my Rem 870 but not practicle to always have.

-ken

Mesa Tactical
06-02-2006, 4:59 PM
Who is selling these in Southern California? I've wanted one for a while to go with my Makarov.

kenc9
06-02-2006, 8:07 PM
You have to get them online as far as I know of. The current importers have the best price and is the way to go. If you need help finding them I'll show you where. They are running 139.00 + mailing+DROS+ whatever the FFL charges you.

-ken

maxicon
06-02-2006, 9:55 PM
I have read from multiple sources that the Tokarev action is much stronger- it's surprising when you hold the two side by side- the CZ feels like a tank compared to the Tok :)

The CZ52 definitely feels like a tank, but the problem is where the barrel is milled out for the rollers, and the wall thickness is only 0.058". The Tokarev minimum chamber wall thickness is more like 0.120".

This is where the chamber fails when overloaded. It's safe for factory loads, or they'd be blowing up all the time. There are reports of CZ52s going ka-boom, like just about any handgun, but these are the exception.

max

kenc9
06-02-2006, 10:30 PM
When you over load these the gun will fail before the brass or primer but with the hot load these have I don't see why they do it except to push it.

-ken

saki302
06-07-2006, 11:18 AM
Yep- like the guy who was overloading them on purpose just to get them to blow up :D

Another oldie but goodie if you like odd mechanical actions and if you can find one is a Bayard 1908 pocket pistol in .380. It's a bit smaller than a P3AT, but thicker and heavier, and the thing has a recoil buffer built in with a rotating internal hammer- not bad for 1908!

-Dave