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View Full Version : Off List or Not Off List? (a grey area?)


loose_electron
10-06-2010, 10:03 AM
Sorry if this question has been asked before.

I am looking to purchase a Sig P226R in 9mm, which has
many variants on the approved list.

However - More specific, I am looking at buying the Elite variant,
because its got nice grips, but is otherwise pretty much the same
as all the others on the list.

I should be able to tell the broker to keep the
15 round magazine, and I can get a CA compliant magazine locally.
Which should keep that aspect of this legal.

Specifics - P226R 9mm, Sig Model E26R9BSE

Any thoughts if this is official on/off the CA list?

Bill Carson
10-06-2010, 10:16 AM
There is no grey area on the roster list. It is either approved or not. You might want to contact Sig or the FFL that you would have the gun transferred to. My G21 that was not approved simply because it had an ambidextrious magazine release was accidently sold to me by Turner's. A couple of month's later I got a letter from the DOJ and they wanted me to trade out the gun for the approved version.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 10:23 AM
I don't see why not. This is listed:

P226R (Blued) / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.4" 9mm 7/17/2011
P226R (Stainless) / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.4" 9mm 3/11/2011

Elite fits all the criteria

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 10:28 AM
There is no grey area on the roster list. It is either approved or not. You might want to contact Sig or the FFL that you would have the gun transferred to. My G21 that was not approved simply because it had an ambidextrious magazine release was accidently sold to me by Turner's. A couple of month's later I got a letter from the DOJ and they wanted me to trade out the gun for the approved version.

Turner's must have dropped a dime on you...lol How else would DOJ even know your gun was not on the list? As when it's DROSed, the type of gun is selected from the drop down list (approved handguns).

Bill Carson
10-06-2010, 10:30 AM
Yeah they actually had to drop a dime on themselves too. I was given the option of trading it out or keeping but was told I would not be able to sell it.

loose_electron
10-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Hmm... You seem my confusion - the P226R listings seem to make it OK,
because the ones on the list are there, but the actual variation is not explicitly listed.

Variation in this case is wood grips and not much else.

Talking with my local FFL is where I am going next.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Hmm... You seem my confusion - the P226R listings seem to make it OK,
because the ones on the list are there, but the actual variation is not explicitly listed.

Variation in this case is wood grips and not much else.

Talking with my local FFL is where I am going next.

look at the model number: P226R

This is what matters. The model number on the box will say "P226R 9 Elite"

P226R is the model, 9 is the caliber, Elite is the "sub model".

There's nothing saying we have to find everything on the box in the list. As an example, there is nothing on the list regarding "Nitron" finishes...I DROS them day in and day out.

halifax
10-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Even SIG (http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=162) knows this model was never submitted and approved:

Item Number E26R-9-BSE, E26R-40-BSE
Caliber 9mm, .40 S&W
Action Type DA/SA
Trigger Pull DA 10.0 lbs
Trigger Pull SA 4.4 lbs
Overall Length 8.2 in
Overall Height 5.5 in
Overall Width 1.6 in
Barrel Length 4.4 in
Sight Radius 6.3 in
Weight w/Mag 34.0 oz
Mag Capacity 9mm 10 or 15 Rounds, .40 S&W 10 or 12 Rounds
Sights SIGLITE® Night Sights
Grips Custom Rosewood Grips
Frame Finish Black Hard Anodized
Slide Finish Nitron®
Accessory Rail Yes
Features SRT™ - Short Reset Trigger
MSRP $1,200.00
CA Compliant No
MA Compliant No

loose_electron
10-06-2010, 11:43 AM
Not CA compliant because of the 15 round magazine or something else?
If you dont take delivery of the magazine is it then OK?

Thus the "grey area" - so I got an inquiry in with my FFL, and will go from there.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 1:33 PM
Apparently it comes with either 10 or 15 round mags...and a "friendly" FFL may do it for you, but you may have problems even finding someone to ship it into CA. You could send it to someone like Valkyrie Arms in Milpitas, who will convert it to single shot...then DROS as single shot exempt. You can convert it back once you own it.

loose_electron
10-06-2010, 2:42 PM
According to the FFL - It should be ok, as long as the high capacity magazine is not part of the deal.

There are so many P226 variants on the CA approved list and it seems a little silly to re qualify the firearm just because they change the color of something.

Dealer seems to be willing to send, FFL seems to be willing to receive and generate DROS.
All good!
Thanks all for the feedback - this one seemed a bit of a grey zone, so I wasn't expecting a black and white answer.

yzernie
10-06-2010, 7:02 PM
None of the Elite series are approved for California. There are many variables to the P226s which are not on the Cali approved model list...a different frame (beavertail) and SRT trigger group are just the major items the Elite that the approved models do not have. The Elite line is off-list, period.

loose_electron
10-07-2010, 7:30 AM
Ernie - You do a huge amount of firearms trading here in CA so I totally respect your opinion here.

My local FFL says he can bring the P226 in and generate a DROS - but I don't want to spend the $$$ and then get a call from the DOJ or the AG office (or whoever) saying I got to get rid of the handgun.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!

None of the Elite series are approved for California. There are many variables to the P226s which are not on the Cali approved model list...a different frame (beavertail) and SRT trigger group are just the major items the Elite that the approved models do not have. The Elite line is off-list, period.

kemasa
10-07-2010, 8:00 AM
The Elite is NOT approved. I have quite a bit of experience with Sigs and it is quite clear that it is not on the list. The firearms listed, P226 stainless, is a different firearm. I have talked to Sig about this issue, the Sig website confirms this and the CA DOJ will confirm it.

As was said, there is no shades of gray with the list.

loose_electron
10-07-2010, 8:10 AM
Hmmm... OK, well I believe the wisest thing to do here is move on to something that is approved and explicitly on the list.

I suspect that I will be going to one of the other P226 9mm variants that is on the list and getting aftermarket grips for it.

kemasa
10-07-2010, 8:16 AM
You can get a P226 stainless and change the grips. it will be close to the Elite. I can order one for you.

yzernie
10-07-2010, 4:37 PM
Ernie - You do a huge amount of firearms trading here in CA so I totally respect your opinion here.

My local FFL says he can bring the P226 in and generate a DROS - but I don't want to spend the $$$ and then get a call from the DOJ or the AG office (or whoever) saying I got to get rid of the handgun.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!
That FFL could doctor his books enough to probably get it DROS'd for you. The problem is with the inspections we all must endure it could eventualy be discovered and then the CaDoJ will be calling you like the gent(s) about the Glock 21s with the ambi safety. IMHO, from your perspective it is not worth the headache of the potential problems. From an FFLs perspective, he's risking his permits and licenses for the sale of ine gun. Most of us will work every nitch of the rules to the maximum we can get away with but...not a risk I'd be comfortable taking.

kemasa
10-07-2010, 4:59 PM
It is easy to DROS a firearm and claim that it is a model other than what it really is, but it is not legal. I, personally, would not want to deal with someone who is willing to violate the law, especially when they are open about it.

No inspection is required actually, all that it would take to discover the issue is for the CA DOJ to check with Sig Sauer regarding the serial number which is on the DROS. They need not leave their office. I am not sure of how often they do that, but I personally am not willing to take the chance due to all the problems that could be created. Think of the worst case and whether you would want to deal with all of that. It could get expensive. Of course, nothing might happen, but I would not want to count on that since the audit could happen at anytime.