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View Full Version : DOJ roster expired during 10days wait


sniper4usmc
10-06-2010, 8:50 AM
WTK

What If,I buy a pistol ,but during 10days wait, Pistol was remove from CA DOJ Approved list (because of Exp Date)

can I still pick it up?

gorenut
10-06-2010, 9:10 AM
I'm pretty sure you can. The 10 day wait happens AFTER the gun gets registered. Its kind of like how the 1 in 30 starts over again on day 1 of the 10 day wait.

I could be wrong though.

SJgunguy24
10-06-2010, 9:16 AM
Not 100% but it would seem that the second the DROS has been filed your done, the only thing your waiting for is the 10day wait. The gun is yours free and clear unless you get dinged during the 10 days.

CSACANNONEER
10-06-2010, 9:20 AM
OR, the sale is not complete until you pick it up. Remember that it is still on the FFL's books until it's picked up. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would wait that long to buy something they want.

sniper4usmc
10-06-2010, 9:23 AM
I just bought CZ 75 Compact in 40s&w from Buds this morning...But roster will expired on 10/31/10..... I am thinking 3-5 days processing,7-10 days for shipping,10 day DROS..:D

greybeard
10-06-2010, 9:28 AM
I forget the bill number but a couple of years ago, one was passed that states, if you DROS it and the gun fall off the list during that period you were still G2G

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 9:36 AM
CA PC 12131:

(3) If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is
listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of
the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe
handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that
handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the
purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from
purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has
initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not
unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is
removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (f), the handgun
shall not be deliverable to the purchaser.

(f) If the handgun model fails retesting, the Attorney General
shall remove the handgun model from the roster maintained pursuant to
subdivision (a).

Heiko
10-06-2010, 10:14 AM
CA PC 12131:

(3) If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is
listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of
the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe
handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that
handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the
purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from
purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has
initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not
unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is
removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (f), the handgun
shall not be deliverable to the purchaser.

(f) If the handgun model fails retesting, the Attorney General
shall remove the handgun model from the roster maintained pursuant to
subdivision (a).

How would we know why the gun was delisted? I would think that the majority, if not all, guns that fall off the roster do so because of the failure to pay the $200 renewal fee rather than the gun suddenly failing the safety tests after years of being deemed safe. If it's just fees then the purchaser should be fine but if we don't know the reason then he'd be stuck.

Also, what does "initiated transfer" mean? Does that mean starting the DROS process or paying for the gun prior to DROS? The scenario would be a buyer pays for the gun from Bud's, it's in transit, gun goes off list prior to starting DROS but does payment and shipment constitute initiation of a transfer? Spliiting hairs perhaps but I'm curious.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 10:39 AM
How would we know why the gun was delisted? I would think that the majority, if not all, guns that fall off the roster do so because of the failure to pay the $200 renewal fee rather than the gun suddenly failing the safety tests after years of being deemed safe. If it's just fees then the purchaser should be fine but if we don't know the reason then he'd be stuck.

Also, what does "initiated transfer" mean? Does that mean starting the DROS process or paying for the gun prior to DROS? The scenario would be a buyer pays for the gun from Bud's, it's in transit, gun goes off list prior to starting DROS but does payment and shipment constitute initiation of a transfer? Spliiting hairs perhaps but I'm curious.

"intiated transfer" = Submitted DROS

As for knowing why a gun dropped off the list, don't worry, if a gun drops off the list for "failing" the safety test, your FFL (and just about everyone else) would know. I can't recall off the top of my head any instance where this was the case.

Heiko
10-06-2010, 10:56 AM
"intiated transfer" = Submitted DROS

As for knowing why a gun dropped off the list, don't worry, if a gun drops off the list for "failing" the safety test, your FFL (and just about everyone else) would know. I can't recall off the top of my head any instance where this was the case.

Thanks. I figured the DROS ball rolling was what initiated the transfer. It could happen though that a gun drops off from the time of purchase to time of DROS.

I would guess that most guns drop off because of the failure to pay the fee to DOJ. Just another bureaucratic BS hoop to jump through and generate some revenue. So if a gun drops off for failure to pay the fee, if the manufacturer then pays, I would think the gun would just get back on the list without any delay. Correct?

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Thanks. I figured the DROS ball rolling was what initiated the transfer. It could happen though that a gun drops off from the time of purchase to time of DROS.

I would guess that most guns drop off because of the failure to pay the fee to DOJ. Just another bureaucratic BS hoop to jump through and generate some revenue. So if a gun drops off for failure to pay the fee, if the manufacturer then pays, I would think the gun would just get back on the list without any delay. Correct?

Correct...You can cal CZ-USA and comfirm if they are going to re-list the gun...my guess is they will. They are a pretty popular gun.

ke6guj
10-06-2010, 12:43 PM
How would we know why the gun was delisted? I would think that the majority, if not all, guns that fall off the roster do so because of the failure to pay the $200 renewal fee rather than the gun suddenly failing the safety tests after years of being deemed safe. If it's just fees then the purchaser should be fine but if we don't know the reason then he'd be stuck.
If it fell off the list when the expiration time came up, it would probably be safe to assume that it fell off for lack of renewal fees. But, if the expiration date was 1/1/2011, and it was delisted today, it would be safe to assume that it fell off for failing a CADOJ retest. Plus, I ASSume that CADOJ would probably send out a bulletin or something informing FFLs that XYZ handgun was delisted for "safety reasons" and not to DROS any, or release any that are currently in 10-day jail.

Massan
10-06-2010, 3:05 PM
What would happen then if they don't release? Any chance for refunds?

ke6guj
10-06-2010, 3:14 PM
If it was not delivered to the customer, I assume the customer would be due a refund. I know that if I paid via CC and the FFL balked at refunding me for a handgun he could not deliver to me, I'd be filing a dispute with the CC company.

That does bring up an interesting situation if the handgun in question was a PPT or cosignment. What happens after the handgun is removed from the roster for failing a retest? Can it be delivered back to the original owner?

bigbob76
10-06-2010, 3:17 PM
i had this happen to me, the gun fell off the list due to the fee not being paid and even though I showed the info listed previously to the FFL I still had 2 FFLs in a row refuse to start the DROS. At the time I got fed up with it and bought something different. Now I go to FFLs that know the law and don't act like they are doing me a favor. I do make a practice of buying stuff from them if I'm only there for a PPT.

halifax
10-06-2010, 3:25 PM
...
That does bring up an interesting situation if the handgun in question was a PPT or cosignment. What happens after the handgun is removed from the roster for failing a retest? Can it be delivered back to the original owner?

Are PPT or consignment guns via PPT even subject to the roster?

halifax
10-06-2010, 3:53 PM
i had this happen to me, the gun fell off the list due to the fee not being paid and even though I showed the info listed previously to the FFL I still had 2 FFLs in a row refuse to start the DROS. At the time I got fed up with it and bought something different. Now I go to FFLs that know the law and don't act like they are doing me a favor. I do make a practice of buying stuff from them if I'm only there for a PPT.

If they fall off the list for any reason before the DROS is submitted then it's a no-go. The FFLs could not have DROSed it legally even if they wanted to because it would no longer be on the drop-down list in the DROS software.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 5:40 PM
Are PPT or consignment guns via PPT even subject to the roster?

No they are roster exempt...only guns roster applies to are handguns shipped into CA.

ke6guj
10-06-2010, 5:52 PM
Are PPT or consignment guns via PPT even subject to the roster?right, a PPT or cosignment (which is DROSed as a PPT) is exempt from the roster, but I was wondering if it doesn't get PPT, and has to be returned to the owner, is is roster exempt.

And the answer is yes.

12132. This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Section 12082 in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The PPT exemption

(e) The return of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 to its owner where that firearm was initially delivered in the circumstances set forth in subdivisions (a), (d), (f), or (j). Says that if you delivered the handgun so that it could be PPT'ed, that it could be returned to you.


(f) The return of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 to its owner where that firearm was initially delivered to that licensee for the purpose of a consignment sale or as collateral for a pawnbroker loan. Specifically states that a cosigned handgun returned to the owner is exempt from the roster.



No they are roster exempt...only guns roster applies to are handguns shipped into CA.

thats a poor way of describing the roster. The roster applies to handguns shipped within CA as well. the roster also applies to handguns bought by an FFL and placed in inventory.

jtmkinsd
10-06-2010, 6:17 PM
thats a poor way of describing the roster. The roster applies to handguns shipped within CA as well. the roster also applies to handguns bought by an FFL and placed in inventory.

Yeah...that's my bad...should say anything that's going to be processed as a dealer transfer is subject to roster (exluding exemptions of course)