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San FranPsycho
10-05-2010, 4:11 PM
I'm not really all that familiar with handguns or handgun laws in CA...

My question is...what would you guys think be the best way to LEGALLY purchase a handgun being under 21? So far it seems my best bet is to buy one from a private seller because this isn't illegal under federal (not sure about CA?) law?

Thanks

p.s. I already own shotguns and rifles I'm just curious as to how to buy a HANDGUN

boxbro
10-05-2010, 4:14 PM
I am not a lawyer but I believe you have to get an HSC (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf) and you'd need your mother/father/grandmother/grandfather transfer it to you.

jtmkinsd
10-05-2010, 4:22 PM
I'm not really all that familiar with handguns or handgun laws in CA...

My question is...what would you guys think be the best way to LEGALLY purchase a handgun being under 21? So far it seems my best bet is to buy one from a private seller because this isn't illegal under federal (not sure about CA?) law?

Thanks

21 for handguns...unless it's given to you by your dad/grandfather (intrafamilial transfer), or you're law enforcement. I have to tell Navy Seals they can't buy a handgun...so stupid.

Droc101
10-05-2010, 4:24 PM
move to another state? remember that you fam can not legally buy a handgun with the intent to give it to you

CAL.BAR
10-05-2010, 4:26 PM
21 for handguns...unless it's given to you by your dad/grandfather (intrafamilial transfer), or you're law enforcement. I have to tell Navy Seals they can't buy a handgun...so stupid.

Yeah, and you also have to tell them they can't legally buy, drink or possess alcohol, or run for president. Not the end of the world.

OP - get a rifle and start practicing. Have your parents get a pistol and take you to the range.

nguystep
10-05-2010, 4:41 PM
I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP, but I guess I know a little more.

I'm almost 20 now and I cant even build my own AR15 because you have to be 21 to buy a stripped lower receiver. I don't want to really buy a complete rifle. So, for now all I'm doing is reading and going to wait until I am 21 because my family dislikes firearms.

good thing is that I have a whole year to save up some cash!

JTROKS
10-05-2010, 4:45 PM
It's the same in some states. When I was 19 years old I was active duty member in the USAF. I couldn't but a handgun, but Uncle Sam can issue one to me to kill commies. Back then it was the commies we were worried about instead of jihadis. Just get a rifle for now and practice, I know you would rather have a handgun, but good things come to those who wait.

YourHuckleberry
10-05-2010, 4:54 PM
I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP, but I guess I know a little more.

I'm almost 20 now and I cant even build my own AR15 because you have to be 21 to buy a stripped lower receiver. I don't want to really buy a complete rifle. So, for now all I'm doing is reading and going to wait until I am 21 because my family dislikes firearms.

good thing is that I have a whole year to save up some cash!

Nah, you just think you do. :D

WTSGDYBBR
10-05-2010, 4:55 PM
You can go buy a nice black powder handgun legit.

Colt-45
10-05-2010, 5:04 PM
2 more weeks for me. Feels great.

OP I had the same issue as you. Get n HSC card and have your dad or granpa buy you a gun.

Rekrab
10-05-2010, 5:20 PM
Alternatively, build your own! You'll need some machining expertise but it can be done.

brianm767
10-05-2010, 5:24 PM
As far as I know, you can not legally purchase a hand gun in California, but one of your parents can legally purchase a hand gun and then you get your HSC card, and then they can transfer it to you through the DOJ's intrafamily form with a $19 dollar fee.

professorhard
10-05-2010, 5:25 PM
move to another state? remember that you fam can not legally buy a handgun with the intent to give it to you

:fud:


Yes they can. It's called a gift.

Cokebottle
10-05-2010, 5:58 PM
So far it seems my best bet is to buy one from a private seller because this isn't illegal under federal (not sure about CA?) law?
Pretty sure it is illegal under Federal law... same for "Cruiser" style shotguns, since the Feds consider them "other", same for stripped lowers.

But you CAN be gifted a handgun from a parent/grandparent under both California and Federal law.
If they are a resident of CA, they hand you the gun, you fill out the DOJ paperwork, and send in the paperwork with $19.
Some time in the next 24 years you'll get a confirmation letter indicating that it is registered to you.

Mstrty
10-05-2010, 6:04 PM
move to another state? remember that you fam can not legally buy a handgun with the intent to give it to you

This is absolutly incorrect. Any parent can buy a gun with the intent to give it to their adult child. $19.00 to the State and your good to go. Totally legal!!!

Ls1FALimpala
10-05-2010, 6:11 PM
10 months till im 21 ill just wait to get a 1911....

Greg-Dawg
10-05-2010, 6:23 PM
Wait until you're 21.

tbhracing
10-05-2010, 9:56 PM
19? Just have some fun in life right now, but do NOT get a girl pregnant. Go party, relax and have fun.

gunwurkz
10-05-2010, 9:57 PM
What he said

safewaysecurity
10-05-2010, 10:02 PM
You have very few options. A transfer from your parents or grandparents, waiting until the BATFE case is settled in about 8 months, or wait until you are 21. YOu're lucky because you are closer than I am..

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-05-2010, 10:02 PM
:fud:


Yes they can. It's called a gift.

yep that is how my buddy got his USP for his job. his father bought it and it was then gifted to him.

pr be like me walk in on your 21st birthday and tell them you want that and drop the cash downa nd take the test.

IrishPirate
10-05-2010, 10:06 PM
I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP, but I guess I know a little more.

I'm almost 20 now and I cant even build my own AR15 because you have to be 21 to buy a stripped lower receiver. I don't want to really buy a complete rifle. So, for now all I'm doing is reading and going to wait until I am 21 because my family dislikes firearms.

good thing is that I have a whole year to save up some cash!

really? who told you that? it's a long gun. You can buy them at 18.

OP, intrafamily transfer is your only bet. Anything else will be a felony and then you'll never be able to own a handgun again. So, either wait until you're 21 or have mom/dad/grandma/grandpa gift you one.

Colt-45
10-05-2010, 10:34 PM
A stripped lower is considered a rifle?

I was also told in several places that no lower receiver could be sold to me. Only complete rifles, lowers until I turned 21.

2 weeks :D.

Uhhlexxxis
10-06-2010, 2:35 AM
NO GUN FOR YOU!!!!!

come back 2 years!

bigthaiboy
10-06-2010, 3:46 AM
move to another state? remember that you fam can not legally buy a handgun with the intent to give it to you

Federal law applies to all States.

really? who told you that? it's a long gun. You can buy them at 18.

OP, intrafamily transfer is your only bet. Anything else will be a felony and then you'll never be able to own a handgun again. So, either wait until you're 21 or have mom/dad/grandma/grandpa gift you one.

Federal law requires that you be 21 years or age or older to purchase a stripped receiver or frame. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are "Other firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21.

Droc101
10-06-2010, 5:38 AM
This is absolutly incorrect. Any parent can buy a gun with the intent to give it to their adult child. $19.00 to the State and your good to go. Totally legal!!!

Would this not fall under straw purchase?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf
Question 11a
Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you

I know about intrafamilial transfer, it was my understanding though that you are not allowed to buy a firearm with the intent to transfer it to someone else. I know that I am applying logic to CA law, but if this is an exception it would be good to know for the shop.

cmth
10-06-2010, 6:09 AM
Would this not fall under straw purchase?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

Read the question from the 4473 you posted more carefully. It's asking if the person filling out the 4473 is the actual buyer of the firearm. You cannot fill out a 4473 on behalf of someone else, or take payment from someone who is a prohibited person and purchase the firearm on their behalf, which is the legal definition of a straw purchase. That is very different from a parent or a spouse buying a firearm and gifting that firearm to their child or spouse. Gifting a firearm to an immediate relative, even immediately after taking possession, is legal under state and federal law, as long as the person receiving the gift is not prohibited from owning firearms. A 19 year old is not prohibited from owning a handgun in CA, they just can't buy one until they are 21.

Droc101
10-06-2010, 6:52 AM
Read the question from the 4473 you posted more carefully. It's asking if the person filling out the 4473 is the actual buyer of the firearm. You cannot fill out a 4473 on behalf of someone else, or take payment from someone who is a prohibited person and purchase the firearm on their behalf, which is the legal definition of a straw purchase. That is very different from a parent or a spouse buying a firearm and gifting that firearm to their child or spouse. Gifting a firearm to an immediate relative, even immediately after taking possession, is legal under state and federal law, as long as the person receiving the gift is not prohibited from owning firearms. A 19 year old is not prohibited from owning a handgun in CA, they just can't buy one until they are 21.

It seems like a grey area, but I am glad for it.

247Nino
10-06-2010, 6:52 AM
Nerf.

evidens83
10-06-2010, 7:00 AM
Just keep playing CoD for two more years and it'll just fly right by.

thomashoward
10-06-2010, 7:10 AM
that's so much BS. Have your parents buy it on their behalf, and when you are 21 have them transfer it through
Operation of Law ( I stand corrected). I did this twice for my kids. Operation of law forms can be printed http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf
PS I would never advocate anything illegal:rolleyes:

mydogsmonkey
10-06-2010, 7:35 AM
that's so much BS. Have your parents buy it on their behalf, and when you are 21 have them transfer it through Order of Operation. I did this twice for my kids. Order of operation forms can be printed http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf
PS I would never advocate anything illegal:rolleyes:

i believe thats operation of law, haha order of operations has to do with math :D

San FranPsycho
10-06-2010, 8:01 AM
19? Just have some fun in life right now, but do NOT get a girl pregnant. Go party, relax and have fun.

:D thanks a lot

So my best bet is grandpa or grandma to buy it and "gift" it to me (mom and dad are anti gun)

And it isn't illegal to be under 21 in possession of a registered handgun?

CSACANNONEER
10-06-2010, 8:05 AM
move to another state? remember that you fam can not legally buy a handgun with the intent to give it to you

As others have stated, this is completely incorrect. If I were you, I'd either learn a little more before trying to advise people on the law or, get a job at a gunshop.

Alternatively, build your own! You'll need some machining expertise but it can be done.

You can build an AK pistol without any machining experience. They are cheap to build and a good first project. After that, I'd suggest a 10-22 build with a Charger being the finished product. Then, you could get into machining a 1911 or similar.

A stripped lower is considered a rifle?

I was also told in several places that no lower receiver could be sold to me. Only complete rifles, lowers until I turned 21.

2 weeks :D.

Nope. A stripped lower which has never had a rifle upper and stock on it is just considered a "receiver" by ATF. You have to be 21 to buy anything other than a long gun. So, the shops told you the correct info.

Nerf.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? This thread is talking about age to buy/own a handgun and has nothing to do with trying to import non-rostered handguns.

ponderosa
10-06-2010, 8:45 AM
that's so much BS. Have your parents buy it on their behalf, and when you are 21 have them transfer it through Order of Operation. I did this twice for my kids. Order of operation forms can be printed http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf
PS I would never advocate anything illegal:rolleyes:

18, not 21...

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

eclipse
10-06-2010, 1:58 PM
I am only 20, this last June my dad purchased a handgun. I got my HSC, sent in the intrafamilial transfer form with $19 and three months later received a letter from the DOJ saying the gun was now registered in my name. I am not 21 and legally own a handgun that is registered in my name. Not too complicated. The form is found here:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

Greg-Dawg
10-06-2010, 2:08 PM
But you'll need a 21 year old to buy center fire ammo.

ke6guj
10-06-2010, 2:24 PM
Nerf.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? This thread is talking about age to buy/own a handgun and has nothing to do with trying to import non-rostered handguns.

He's not talking about NeRF, he talking about Nerf (http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/en_US/)

rorschach
10-06-2010, 3:21 PM
10 months till im 21 ill just wait to get a 1911....

Good man. I wish I had been that wise when I was your age!

Droc101
10-06-2010, 3:22 PM
As others have stated, this is completely incorrect. If I were you, I'd either learn a little more before trying to advise people on the law or, get a job at a gunshop.


As I had stated, I recognized my fault and stand corrected; maybe you should read all the posts before coming across like an a**. People make mistakes and sometimes they misspeak, such as you and your nerf comment. Thats the beauty of the forums here, we can all discuss things and clear out the learned FUD that has been spread by places such as the "gun shops" you feel I need to get a job at.

Secret
10-06-2010, 3:27 PM
Just keep playing CoD for two more years and it'll just fly right by.

:smilielol5:

eclipse
10-06-2010, 3:44 PM
But you'll need a 21 year old to buy center fire ammo.

That's why I reload my own ammo. Cheaper and can purchase everything at 20yrs old.

Rekrab
10-06-2010, 4:04 PM
All the more reason to build a rifle caliber pistol!

Cokebottle
10-06-2010, 5:55 PM
really? who told you that? it's a long gun. You can buy them at 18.
As of around the end of 2008, the BATFE required stripped lowers (and "cruiser" style shotguns) to be written up on the 4473 as "other".
The old 4473 was like the California DROS, in that it had only "handgun" and "long gun".

The problem is, the law is not written that you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun... it is written that you have to be 21 to purchase anything other than a long gun, therefore, "other" is off limits to 18-20 year olds.

Cokebottle
10-06-2010, 6:00 PM
that's so much BS. Have your parents buy it on their behalf, and when you are 21 have them transfer it through
Operation of Law ( I stand corrected). I did this twice for my kids. Operation of law forms can be printed http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf
PS I would never advocate anything illegal:rolleyes:
It's not illegal, and it is not a gray area.

It is 100% legal for a parent to purchase a gun with the intent to gift it to their child (or any other non-prohibited person for that matter).
The "Straw Purchase" issue comes into play when the intent of the purchase is to get around the law, IE: Buying to give to a prohibited person, LEO buying a non-rostered handgun to sell to a non-LEO, or buying with the intent of resale, which would also fall under operating as an unlicensed dealer.

You don't have to wait until your kids are 21. At 18, you may use the OpLaw form to legally transfer a handgun to your child.

Cokebottle
10-06-2010, 6:01 PM
And it isn't illegal to be under 21 in possession of a registered handgun?
No.

CSACANNONEER
10-06-2010, 7:12 PM
But you'll need a 21 year old to buy center fire ammo.

Nope, just handgun ammo.

He's not talking about NeRF, he talking about Nerf (http://www.hasbro.com/nerf/en_US/)

I can only hope that is what he ment. Unfortunately, his post is left up to interpetation.

As I had stated, I recognized my fault and stand corrected; maybe you should read all the posts before coming across like an a**. People make mistakes and sometimes they misspeak, such as you and your nerf comment. Thats the beauty of the forums here, we can all discuss things and clear out the learned FUD that has been spread by places such as the "gun shops" you feel I need to get a job at.

Sorry, I can't seem to find were you stated that you stand corrected. I did find posts were you stated that you thought that buying a firearm for a gift was illegal and then, later you called it a gray area. I find both of your interpetations interesting since, it's clearly legal. If it was not, there would not be a specific question about it on a 4473. But, IANAL so, maybe you know more than I do. BTW, your interpetations are exactly the same as many misinformed gun stores. That's why I suggested either learning the law or working at one of the FUD spearding shops. I'm glad that you seem to be doing the first though.


And it isn't illegal to be under 21 in possession of a registered handgun?

Uh, NO. If that was the case, no one under 21 could even shoot or hold a handgun. This is the case with RAWs. Also, once an 18-20 year old registers a handgun in his/her name, why would it be illegal for them to possess a gun which is legally registered to them? How about if he/she is the legal manufacturer of an unregistered homebuilt handgun without any serial number or other legal markings? Yep, there is no difference between an 18 year old possessing one and a 48 year old possessing one. Both examples are 100% legal!

CSACANNONEER
10-06-2010, 7:19 PM
Would this not fall under straw purchase?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf


I know about intrafamilial transfer, it was my understanding though that you are not allowed to buy a firearm with the intent to transfer it to someone else. I know that I am applying logic to CA law, but if this is an exception it would be good to know for the shop.

I just caught this while looking back through the thread to find the post that you say exists where you state that you stand corrected. I guess I missed the bold part until now. It appears to me that you already work at a gun shop. :rofl2: Seriously, I'm glad that you are here educating yourself instead of continuing to misinterpret the laws.

Droc101
10-07-2010, 2:44 AM
I just caught this while looking back through the thread to find the post that you say exists where you state that you stand corrected. I guess I missed the bold part until now. It appears to me that you already work at a gun shop. :rofl2: Seriously, I'm glad that you are here educating yourself instead of continuing to misinterpret the laws.

Nah don't work at one, My father owns one and I help him out when I can.

bigthaiboy
10-07-2010, 10:06 AM
As of around the end of 2008, the BATFE required stripped lowers (and "cruiser" style shotguns) to be written up on the 4473 as "other".
The old 4473 was like the California DROS, in that it had only "handgun" and "long gun".

The problem is, the law is not written that you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun... it is written that you have to be 21 to purchase anything other than a long gun, therefore, "other" is off limits to 18-20 year olds.

This is correct. The age restriction for firearms, and the questions you tick "No" to on the 4473 form are part of the "Prohibited Persons" requirements of the (GCA) Gun Control Act of 1968. Every few months the ATF sends out a newsletter to ALL FFL (including C&R license) holders. The purpose of these newsletters to inform FFLs of new laws, reminders, and serve to clarify and add the latest definitions to existing gun laws. The November 2009 newsletter clarifys the shotguns and pistol grips definition of "Other weapons" and includes an age restrictions reminder on page 2: http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

Wild Squid
10-07-2010, 10:19 AM
I feel for you man, I remember when I was that age and wanted a handgun. I bought a handgun as soon as I turned 21. You'll probably just have to wait it out. Buy some long guns and shoot those in the meantime, just as fun. You can own a shotgun for home defense.

Rugerdaddy
10-07-2010, 9:04 PM
:D thanks a lot

So my best bet is grandpa or grandma to buy it and "gift" it to me (mom and dad are anti gun)

And it isn't illegal to be under 21 in possession of a registered handgun?

No. You misunderstood. Your best bet is for grandpa or grandma to buy it and "gift" it to me, so I can shoot it for you until you're 21! :D

(I would like a Kahr PM9, please.)

Caiden07
10-07-2010, 9:15 PM
I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP, but I guess I know a little more.

I'm almost 20 now and I cant even build my own AR15 because you have to be 21 to buy a stripped lower receiver. I don't want to really buy a complete rifle. So, for now all I'm doing is reading and going to wait until I am 21 because my family dislikes firearms.

good thing is that I have a whole year to save up some cash!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you could start buying other parts now like the Furnitures, optics, slings etc.

Cokebottle
10-07-2010, 9:23 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you could start buying other parts now like the Furnitures, optics, slings etc.
Quite true... and given that, depending on the build and the configuration, the lower may be as little as 5%-10% of the total cost, this makes perfect sense.