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Tre(y)13
09-28-2010, 11:58 PM
how much would it cost to take a 16 inch saiga barrel down to a 11.5? yes yes i am already aware of potentially moving gas blocks and required barrel extensions etc..just wondering cost estimates?

Ron-Solo
09-29-2010, 12:05 AM
How's 10 years in Federal prison? Seriously, unless you're going to do some kind of fixed muzzle break to keep it 16" (or 18" on a SG) it isn't worth it, and then you're giving up barrel length, which equals accuracy & velocity.

jtmkinsd
09-29-2010, 12:38 AM
how much would it cost to take a 16 inch saiga barrel down to a 11.5? yes yes i am already aware of potentially moving gas blocks and required barrel extensions etc..just wondering cost estimates?

Depends on how much your gunsmith charges for labor. I get $60/hr general labor and $75/hr machine time...lathe time, crowning, pinning and welding a muzzle break alone you're probably looking at about $80-$100. Start messing with the gas system and it gets a little more pricey...so you may want to rethink the length? Oh...and it does still have to be 16 inches when everything is done so.....what's the benefit?

MrPlink
09-29-2010, 2:12 AM
Are you trying to krink out a Saiga?

SJgunguy24
09-29-2010, 2:14 AM
Are you trying to krink out a Saiga?

Yeah, what are you trying to do? When you start chopping that much off there could be other problems that arise.

Tre(y)13
09-29-2010, 9:10 PM
:) precisely...SJ i believe we briefly touched on the topic but i was trying to get more info on the process. so id have to move the gas system back obviously..any other major issues i will encounter?

SJgunguy24
09-30-2010, 12:08 AM
:) precisely...SJ i believe we briefly touched on the topic but i was trying to get more info on the process. so id have to move the gas system back obviously..any other major issues i will encounter?

That's what I would like to know. I can get the info and figure it out but I need to know what your planning.
You can chop some, but there needs to be a certian amount of barrel after the gas block. Dwell time is what I think it's called. That allows the bolt to stay locked long enough for the chamber pressure to drop to safe levels before extraction begins.
Then there is the gas piston, if that system gets shortend enough, a new piston may be needed. If you go outside the normal AK lengths, a custom piston will need to be fabricated.

jtmkinsd
09-30-2010, 12:17 AM
You'll run into some reliability issues also...having the muzzle so close to the gas block doesn't allow time for the gas system to properly cycle the action before the pressure is lost after the round exits the barrel. So if you're going to move the block, make sure it's moved enough.

MrPlink
09-30-2010, 1:23 AM
I can't help but think this is a pointless project. You can't make a pistol. And if you shorten it, which is going to cost a fortune in custom fab work, you are just going to have to bring it back to 16in. As opposed to starting with a saiga, why not start with something already short, like a draco? Or if you are really serious buy a krink kit and go from there.

Nathan Krynn
09-30-2010, 6:26 AM
Like others I am not sure your intent but watch the laws.

If you are set on that a new barrel will probably be cheaper.

As for moving the gas system it is not needed 11.5" is fine on a carbine gas system. We sell a 10.5" 5.56 SBR all the time, I have at least 2k rounds through the office demo model personally this year. We also have a 10.5" carbine gas system M-16 and have many thousands of rounds through that as the owner uses that as a demo gun everywhere he goes. Also we have a 12" carbine gassed 6.8 M-16 and that thing is just down right awesome.

SJgunguy24
09-30-2010, 9:30 AM
Like others I am not sure your intent but watch the laws.

If you are set on that a new barrel will probably be cheaper.

As for moving the gas system it is not needed 11.5" is fine on a carbine gas system. We sell a 10.5" 5.56 SBR all the time, I have at least 2k rounds through the office demo model personally this year. We also have a 10.5" carbine gas system M-16 and have many thousands of rounds through that as the owner uses that as a demo gun everywhere he goes. Also we have a 12" carbine gassed 6.8 M-16 and that thing is just down right awesome.

Not a DI gun. The OP has an AK project he's gathering info for.

Tre(y)13
09-30-2010, 11:12 AM
As opposed to starting with a saiga, why not start with something already short, like a draco? Or if you are really serious buy a krink kit and go from there.

because i already have a couple saigas and dont see the need to buy a completely new gun to do this project when i have a perfectly fine rifle, which just simply needs a shorter barrel. and about this gas issue..how then do "draco's" and other ak pistol variants operate reliably? would it be smarter to just find a barrel and gas system from one of those platforms and install it?


and furthermore, i dont care to make a "pistol" or sbr. simply like the look of krinks and especially when the added fake suppressor/ barrel extension is installed.

Tre(y)13
09-30-2010, 11:13 AM
plus, i havent seen this done before :)

SJgunguy24
09-30-2010, 11:44 AM
because i already have a couple saigas and dont see the need to buy a completely new gun to do this project when i have a perfectly fine rifle, which just simply needs a shorter barrel. and about this gas issue..how then do "draco's" and other ak pistol variants operate reliably? would it be smarter to just find a barrel and gas system from one of those platforms and install it?



That depends on how short you want to go and if your using a donor gun or a kit to build with. Sometimes it can be easier to start with a virgin barrel if you can't find a kit. No gas port, no cut outs and your builder will just have to turn the barrel and mill what you need.

As far as the gas system, the math has been done already and what works is known. The 7.62 is pretty reliable out of most barrel lengths. The AMD uses a 12.5" barrel with a shortened gas system. The m92 uses a 10" barrel and works reliably with an obvious shortened gas system.

Tre(y)13
09-30-2010, 6:34 PM
id like a 12inch barrel which would then require me to pin a 4inch barrel extension on. any ideas on where i could locate a barrel and gas system?

SJgunguy24
10-01-2010, 12:54 AM
id like a 12inch barrel which would then require me to pin a 4inch barrel extension on. any ideas on where i could locate a barrel and gas system?

AMD 65 kit has a 12.5" barrel. If you can't find a kit with the OE barrel, that's not really a problem.
Find a virgin barrel, turn, mill, chop, thread, and crown.

MrPlink
10-01-2010, 1:15 AM
plus, i havent seen this done before :)

you mean like these? All Saigas
http://www.ak-103.com/images/img_rif_104_lg.jpg
http://www.ak-103.com/images/img_rif_103k_lg.jpg
http://www.world.guns.ru/civil/saiga_mk1_223-1.jpg
http://www.world.guns.ru/civil/saiga_mk3_762.jpg

Tre(y)13
10-01-2010, 9:28 AM
yes exactly!! that top one is wonderful. brings me to a next question..what type of furniture could i use? normal ak wood ?

SJgunguy24
10-01-2010, 9:33 AM
yes exactly!! that top one is wonderful. brings me to a next question..what type of furniture could i use? normal ak wood ?

Pretty much anything you want. That gun on the top has a full size handguard and gas tube.

Tre(y)13
10-01-2010, 9:34 AM
AMD 65 kit has a 12.5" barrel.

so if i find a barrel with sight block and gas assembly already in place, will i be able to directly install onto my rifle?

SJgunguy24
10-01-2010, 9:41 AM
so if i find a barrel with sight block and gas assembly already in place, will i be able to directly install onto my rifle?

Which rifle? The Saiga trunnion is 22mm while the AK is 23mm. If you want to do that with a saiga then yes and no. Yes it CAN be done with extra work and machining. No because you have a perfectly good barrel already with a Saiga.

That is why I said tell me what you want and I'll let you know what your options are. I have most of this crap stuck in my head.