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View Full Version : Is 870 Tactical @$529 a good deal!?


Jicko
05-26-2006, 9:07 PM
Is 870 Tactical @$529 a good deal!?

It comes with a Knoxx SpecOps stock....

http://www.turners.com/engage/displayad2.php?H=1&m1=May&m2=June&d1=25&d2=7&img=ads/05-25-06/rem870tact.gif

But how does this compare to the FN TPS which is about the same price w/ a C-more and AR stuffs.....

Timberland
05-26-2006, 10:38 PM
Standard defense 870= $300 (big 5)
Stock set knoxx = $150
Green paint= ???
Saying on the side = price less
If you think the green paint is asome cool but under it lays a standard 870 express. If you see a FN for a good price jump it is an asome weapon :D

Jicko
05-27-2006, 12:44 AM
The FN TPS w/ C-more is only also $529. (+$20 shipping and +$45 FFL fee)

870 Tactical is $529 + tax.

Both I need to pay $25 for DROS.

Some people are telling me a 870Police is way better than a 870Express.... and the 870Tactical, I think is a 870Police + the Knoxx stock($129)...

There are a lot of Knoxx SpecOp stock good reviews out there....

So.... FN TPS? or 870Tactical?

Stanze
05-27-2006, 12:54 AM
I'd consider the Knoxx stock/pistol grip set if I was planning on shooting 3" magnum deer slugs/00 buck a lot. For most rounds(especially bird shot) a normal/pistol grip stock works just fine, and the Knoxx has two springs in it, you may not like the non-firm "springy" feel.

You should go to the gun shop and handle them, and see what feels best, and balances good.

The 870 tactical I handled at Turner's pointed great! The 870 Express I had was front heavy and made my decision to sell it easy.

kantstudien
05-27-2006, 2:42 AM
The "Tactical" is the Express painted green. If you see a red dot and a white dot on the safety, it is a politically correct scattergun which should stay on the shelf. Bring a magnet with you next time, and if it sticks to the triggerguard, you have an 870 worth buying. This will most likely say "Police" or "Wingmaster" on the side (if it is older). You can become a Tac-Star junkie later on.

Timberland
05-27-2006, 6:54 PM
I have the Winchester defender same as FN minus AR stock. It is a killer platform, not much bolt on plastic crap is avalible but it is sweet. 870s have been around forever personally I dont care for its slide release or saftey so I stick to win and mossberg. Personaly if you wanna shell out some money get a mossberg 590 a1. That gets you all metal a bayonet lug and the pride of knowing the army caries it. Your choice check them all out.

rushta
05-27-2006, 8:17 PM
No. Get neither. A 870 Police is better. Also, remember tax is applied (CA State) by FFLs when you transfer from out of state. Not sure why though.

6172crew
05-27-2006, 9:04 PM
http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=86&zenid=2a6f85c666a7d937b6ad0a84eb05a527

I like this one, but would step up to the 11-87 so I didnt haveto do it twice.

But like they say get both.

jessegpresley
05-31-2006, 10:53 PM
No. Get neither. A 870 Police is better. Also, remember tax is applied (CA State) by FFLs when you transfer from out of state. Not sure why though.

I've never paid tax on an out of state transfer. It's at the discretion of your FFL.

Shane916
05-31-2006, 11:02 PM
Previous tax discusion:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-26444.html

Was on OLL but are also in the long gun out of state transfer category :)

leelaw
06-01-2006, 1:24 AM
I've never paid tax on an out of state transfer. It's at the discretion of your FFL.

It most certainly is NOT at the discretion of the FFL. If the FFL is not collecting taxes on the invoiced cost, then they may face trouble from the Franchise Tax Board.

The FTB has declared that taxes must be collected on out of state transfers for all firearms, based on the invoice price of the firearm, since the FFL is logging it into their inventory and (as far as they care) the transfer became the point-of-sale of the firearm.

Jicko
06-01-2006, 1:46 AM
When buying a firearms from an out of state dealer... you can request them NOT to put the invoice with the package, and not to list the amount anywhere... and send you an invoice directly(separately) ;)

It most certainly is NOT at the discretion of the FFL. If the FFL is not collecting taxes on the invoiced cost, then they may face trouble from the Franchise Tax Board.

The FTB has declared that taxes must be collected on out of state transfers for all firearms, based on the invoice price of the firearm, since the FFL is logging it into their inventory and (as far as they care) the transfer became the point-of-sale of the firearm.

None of my FFL knew how much I paid for my lowers....

leelaw
06-01-2006, 2:19 AM
When buying a firearms from an out of state dealer... you can request them NOT to put the invoice with the package, and not to list the amount anywhere... and send you an invoice directly(separately) ;)

None of my FFL knew how much I paid for my lowers....

You might have put the FFLs in a bind, then. They are required to collect sales tax on the receivers, and if there is no invoice because you're trying to circumvent the law, they may have to come up with a reasonable value to tax the receiver for. You should have had an invoice sent showing the whole $30 you paid for them and eaten the tax.

Jicko
06-01-2006, 9:40 AM
You might have put the FFLs in a bind, then. They are required to collect sales tax on the receivers, and if there is no invoice because you're trying to circumvent the law, they may have to come up with a reasonable value to tax the receiver for. You should have had an invoice sent showing the whole $30 you paid for them and eaten the tax.

My STAGs cost me $5 each, and $94 shipping and handling....

leelaw
06-01-2006, 2:44 PM
My STAGs cost me $5 each, and $94 shipping and handling....

Exactly...

jessegpresley
06-01-2006, 11:50 PM
I'd much rather have an FN TPS with C-More for $529 from Ray Tanner on Gunbroker than a green 870 Express, aka 870 Tactical for $529. The C-More alone retails for $200. Doesn't the 870 Express go on sale at Big 5 for under $300 quite often?

Jicko
06-02-2006, 5:37 AM
Now I understand.... 870 Tactical is just the same as 870 Express... ie... NOT WORTH IT...

Now the question is.... how about 870 Wingmaster?

AxonGap
06-02-2006, 4:58 PM
Here are a few chief differences between the 870P and 870 Express. I don’t know much about the “Tactical” but I assume it’s an 870HD Express w/ a paint job and the word “Tactical” embossed on the receiver.

870P (Police) has the following:
* Parkerized finish
* Trigger guard is aluminum (steel in older models) w/o the PC trigger lock.
* Heavier spring in trigger group.
* The receiver is identical to the 870 Express HD (Home Defense) but w/ cleaner fit and finish making for a smoother action.
* Magazine tube is designed to accept extensions (Same on 870 Express HD).
* Shortened forend to allow shot shell sidesaddle (wood or Speedfeed synthetic)

The 870 Express has the following:
* Cheaper finish (Remington calls it bluing, I call it blech!)
* Plastic trigger group w/ PC (key lockable) trigger lock.
* Won’t take magnum loads 3" (correct me if I’m wrong), except in HD version, or if marked “MAGNUM” on receiver.
* Magazine tube has two nibs at the end preventing the addition of mag extension (except in HD model).
*Rougher finish on the machining of the receiver.

The 870HD is basically a super cheap version of an 870P w/o the Police trigger group and fit/finish. If you are looking for a home defense weapon w/ mag extension, the 870HD will more then do the trick. If you are going to be doing CQB/Police work, Scattergun Technologies (of Wilson Combat - http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_sgt.htm) usually uses a stock Rem 870 Express Magnum and hops it up w/ parkerized finish, ghost ring sites, Speedfeed stock/forend, the works ($$). After asking around, there is no difference in the 870HD Express and the 870P receivers aside from finish. Save the $$ and get an 870HD for $290 at Turners and then upgrade to your hearts desire. You can get an 870P trigger group as well as Speedfeed stock/forend, Wilson Combat mag extension, etc. at Brownell’s. If you’re going to beat the daylights out of it go for the 870P because it’s made for that purpose. You get what you pay for!

knight_dive
06-02-2006, 5:47 PM
I have the 870 Express in 18" / 6+1 configuration with the factory pistol grip stock and I love it, but if I were a real tactical user I would definitely go for the 870P. They don't cost much that much more and like the above post mentions, they are built to handle more use/abuse. Personally I don't like the Knoxx stock at all after getting a feel for one at turners. Something about it just feels wrong, but I can't quantify what it is without shooting one. It costs a bit more, but if you want to use an AR style stock and pistol grip, I really like the Cavalry Arms SST-- http://www.cavalryarms.com/shotgunsystems.html

-- and the high tube stock adapters from Mesa Tactical-- http://www.mesatactical.com/

Both put the barrel directly in line with your shoulder and greatly improve felt recoil, but they're just not in my budget and I'm too busy saving for more rifles before this loony state bans them all.

PIRATE14
06-02-2006, 9:39 PM
Can't go wrong with a 870 express at 249...............better than nothin...

Step up and get a M4 Benelli

Jicko
06-02-2006, 11:44 PM
Can't go wrong with a 870 express at 249...............better than nothin...

Step up and get a M4 Benelli


If i just want to shell out the money right the way, I'll get a M3 or M4....

Crazed_SS
06-03-2006, 8:09 AM
Here are a few chief differences between the 870P and 870 Express. I don’t know much about the “Tactical” but I assume it’s an 870HD Express w/ a paint job and the word “Tactical” embossed on the receiver.

870P (Police) has the following:
* Parkerized finish
* Trigger guard is aluminum (steel in older models) w/o the PC trigger lock.
* Heavier spring in trigger group.
* The receiver is identical to the 870 Express HD (Home Defense) but w/ cleaner fit and finish making for a smoother action.
* Magazine tube is designed to accept extensions (Same on 870 Express HD).
* Shortened forend to allow shot shell sidesaddle (wood or Speedfeed synthetic)

The 870 Express has the following:
* Cheaper finish (Remington calls it bluing, I call it blech!)
* Plastic trigger group w/ PC (key lockable) trigger lock.
* Won’t take magnum loads 3" (correct me if I’m wrong), except in HD version, or if marked “MAGNUM” on receiver.
* Magazine tube has two nibs at the end preventing the addition of mag extension (except in HD model).
*Rougher finish on the machining of the receiver.

The 870HD is basically a super cheap version of an 870P w/o the Police trigger group and fit/finish. If you are looking for a home defense weapon w/ mag extension, the 870HD will more then do the trick. If you are going to be doing CQB/Police work, Scattergun Technologies (of Wilson Combat - http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_sgt.htm) usually uses a stock Rem 870 Express Magnum and hops it up w/ parkerized finish, ghost ring sites, Speedfeed stock/forend, the works ($$). After asking around, there is no difference in the 870HD Express and the 870P receivers aside from finish. Save the $$ and get an 870HD for $290 at Turners and then upgrade to your hearts desire. You can get an 870P trigger group as well as Speedfeed stock/forend, Wilson Combat mag extension, etc. at Brownell’s. If you’re going to beat the daylights out of it go for the 870P because it’s made for that purpose. You get what you pay for!


The 870HD is basically a super cheap version of an 870P w/o the Police trigger group and fit/finish. If you are looking for a home defense weapon w/ mag extension, the 870HD will more then do the trick. If you are going to be doing CQB/Police work, Scattergun Technologies (of Wilson Combat - http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_sgt.htm) usually uses a stock Rem 870 Express Magnum and hops it up w/ parkerized finish, ghost ring sites, Speedfeed stock/forend, the works ($$). After asking around, there is no difference in the 870HD Express and the 870P receivers aside from finish. Save the $$ and get an 870HD for $290 at Turners and then upgrade to your hearts desire. You can get an 870P trigger group as well as Speedfeed stock/forend, Wilson Combat mag extension, etc. at Brownell’s. If you’re going to beat the daylights out of it go for the 870P because it’s made for that purpose. You get what you pay for![/QUOTE]

Meh.. I have an 870 Express Tactical and like it.. Cost me 370 bucks at Turners. I dont think that's a bad price considering it comes with the Speedforce stock, mag extension, recoil pad, and super tactical green paint :)
I've taken it to the range a few times and it works flawlessly every single time. Turns paper into confetti :) Also, it does take 3" shells and as you can see it does have a mag extension making the capacity 7+1

http://members.cox.net/qsmumin/shotty.jpg

I think the one posted in this thread costs so much because of the folding stock. I think it's kinda ugly anyway. An 870 Express/Tactical with traditional stock or fixed stock with pistol grip would be a lot cheaper.

jessegpresley
06-04-2006, 1:07 AM
Step up and get a M4 Benelli

I'd rather have an FN SLP for $650 on Gunbroker, which is about $300 less thn their usual retail. It's also less than half the price of the Benelli. The SLP is also faster than the M4. It shares the same action as the Browning Gold and Winchester SX2. Recoil is milder than an M1 or M2/M3 because its gas operated. Comes with two different gas pistons for heavy/light loads, and can take 3" magnums. Capacity is 6 +1 for the SLP, only 4 + 1 for the M4. The SLP is also 1 1/4" shorter than the M4.

So let's recap.

M4 $1350 if you're lucky. SLP, $650 on Gunbroker (usually around $900)
SLP is faster than the M4
SLP has 2 more capacity than the M4 (M4 +2 factory mag extension is $125 if you can find one, sometimes sells for many times more on eBay)
SLP is 1.25" shorter than the M4.
You look cooler with an M4.

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/guns_1100px/fn_sg_selfloading.jpg

leelaw
06-04-2006, 3:29 AM
He's gotta work for FN - I'm sold :D

James R.
06-04-2006, 3:06 PM
I've never paid tax on an out of state transfer. It's at the discretion of your FFL.

Ditto, never paid. I did have to argue with an FFL about this once however. I told him as long as the transaction (point of sale Vs point of transfer) occurs outside California and with a business who does not have operations in this state I'm not required to pay sales tax. Finally he folded...and I'm glad he did, it was a $900 shotgun and part of buying it out of state was to avoid the tax which easily covered the transfer and DROS fees.

Regards,

James R.

Timberland
06-08-2006, 3:27 PM
FN SLP looks great. But I have never seen a pistol grip for one:mad: That keeps me from consedering one.

PIRATE14
06-14-2006, 9:26 AM
M4 $1350 if you're lucky. SLP, $650 on Gunbroker (usually around $900)
SLP is faster than the M4
SLP has 2 more capacity than the M4 (M4 +2 factory mag extension is $125 if you can find one, sometimes sells for many times more on eBay)
SLP is 1.25" shorter than the M4.
You look cooler with an M4.



M4....25,000 rds w/o failure.

I carry/shoot/sell all these models.....so like I said if you want a top the line scatter gun go w/ the M4.

M4 w/ factory +2 tube, factory collapsable stock $1650.

If you want a SLP or 11-87 got those too.........

COOL FACTOR.......priceless:D

Jicko
06-14-2006, 11:15 AM
But hasn't all the Benelli M3s or M4s gone to the military? (And u seldom find them in stores now??)

*sign* .... they are a bit out of my price range for now...

EricCartmanR1
06-19-2006, 8:56 PM
No. Get neither. A 870 Police is better. Also, remember tax is applied (CA State) by FFLs when you transfer from out of state. Not sure why though.

agree, 870 police is all you need.

leelaw
06-19-2006, 10:40 PM
agree, 870 police is all you need.

In my experience, it is harder to find distributors who will work with police model firearms, as they are (as far as I know/have been told), shipped from the manufacturer without a FET paid, and the distributor will need to collect the firearm, send in FET paperwork, and pay the FET before they can then sell it. Some find that a hastle big enough to not sell police model firearms to dealers selling them to the public.

As for why FFLs in CA need to collect sales tax on firearms shipped from out of state - it's because of the Franchise Tax Board - they decided that regardless of where the firearm was paid for by the end buyer, the transfer is a "sale" in California (thanks to the DOJ calling the DROS the Dealer Record Of SALE), and therefore the tax must be collected.

If you've been able to get one without paying sales tax, don't share the names of the businesses who did it, or the FTB might go after them for tax evasion, and then you'll be out another firearms source.

gordoe
06-28-2006, 10:01 PM
i've got that 870 with the pistol grip and regular buttstock combo, and i love it. it's a beautiful shotgun. it was the first gun i bought.

AxonGap
06-29-2006, 4:15 PM
Just go to http://www.coldwarshooters.net and get an 870 Police transferred to your FFL for $479.00 (not including shipping, DROS, and FFL fee's of course). I weigh the cost w/ the need/want when it comes to scatter guns.