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insin
09-28-2010, 10:14 PM
Hello,
I realize/assume that handguns must be transferred via FFL, however does that same rule apply to rifles?

Basically my question is can I sell a friend a rifle from my private collection for cash/trade without going through an FFL? I assume that I should record the serial number along with a copy of the buyers identification just in case for my records.

Thanks

iareConfusE
09-28-2010, 10:15 PM
FFL for any rifle that doesn't qualify for C&R status (less than 50 years old).

You also need an FFL 03 to sell a C&R rifle to somebody. In that case you need to log buyer information in your logbook.

Reductio
09-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Whoa whoa... I thought you could cash-and-carry if it was a C&R rifle / shotgun that was 50+ years old in California without an FFL03?

iareConfusE
09-28-2010, 10:24 PM
Whoa whoa... I thought you could cash-and-carry if it was a C&R rifle / shotgun that was 50+ years old in California without an FFL03?

I'm pretty sure the seller has to have an FFL 03. The buyer isn't required to have one, but the seller must.

mstlaurent
09-28-2010, 10:27 PM
You are confused. ;) If the rifle is C&R, no FFL is required, cash and carry, just like every other state in the Union.

Reductio
09-28-2010, 10:28 PM
PHEW.... that was close (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California) See about 3/4 the way down. :o Had me real worried about a certain M44 in my safe.... :43:

bigthaiboy
09-28-2010, 10:29 PM
I'm pretty sure the seller has to have an FFL 03. The buyer isn't required to have one, but the seller must.

No, anyone who can legally buy firearms can cash & carry with any C&R rifle or shotgun over 50 years old. No paperwork required. Everything else through a FFL.

iareConfusE
09-28-2010, 10:31 PM
Guess someone spread me some lies before ;o

No FFL required for C&R!

dmax11
09-28-2010, 10:40 PM
Guess someone spread me some lies before ;o

No FFL required for C&R!

C&R that is over 50 years old only. there are some rifles that are less than 50 years old but are considered C&R because BATFE has put them on the list. many SKS's fall under this category for example and must be transferred through an FFL. Yugo SKS's are ones that will remain this way because there i no for sure way to date them, the records were destroyed when the factory that built them got bombed in the 90's and while the collector community has determined how to find out what year one was made based on its SN, its only accurate to within 2 years at worst and BATFE does not recognize it regardless AFAIK. its also worth noting that the 59/66 Yugo's will stay this way for a long time as they only stopped production of them in 1989, i own one that was made in 1979

Quiet
09-28-2010, 10:58 PM
Basically my question is can I sell a friend a rifle from my private collection for cash/trade without going through an FFL?

Since 1991, all firearm transfers between non-licensed CA residents must be done through a CA FFL dealer [PC 12072(d)]. Failure to do so is a misdemeanor [PC 1207(a)(1)]

Exceptions:
Intra-familial gift between immediate family members that are CA residents [PC 12078(c)(1)].
A long gun (rifle/shotgun) over 50 years old can be legally transfered without the use of a FFL dealer [PC 12078(t)(2)].


Penal Code 12072
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

Penal Code 12070
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Penal Code 12078
(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

SJgunguy24
09-28-2010, 11:09 PM
I'm pretty sure the seller has to have an FFL 03. The buyer isn't required to have one, but the seller must.

Pretty sure?

You are confused. ;) If the rifle is C&R, no FFL is required, cash and carry, just like every other state in the Union.

This is partially correct.

C&R that is over 50 years old only. there are some rifles that are less than 50 years old but are considered C&R because BATFE has put them on the list. many SKS's fall under this category for example and must be transferred through an FFL. Yugo SKS's are ones that will remain this way because there i no for sure way to date them, the records were destroyed when the factory that built them got bombed in the 90's and while the collector community has determined how to find out what year one was made based on its SN, its only accurate to within 2 years at worst and BATFE does not recognize it regardless AFAIK. its also worth noting that the 59/66 Yugo's will stay this way for a long time as they only stopped production of them in 1989, i own one that was made in 1979

This is one of the exceptions to the C&R longarm transfer law.
If the longarm is 50+ years, no FFL is needed intrastate. You can mail the long arm to a buyer in CA if both parties are CA residents.
The 03FFL is only needed for inter state transfers, importing, and buying out of state.

paul0660
09-28-2010, 11:18 PM
If the longarm is 50+ years, no FFL is needed intrastate. You can mail the long arm to a buyer in CA if both parties are CA residents.
The 03FFL is only needed for inter state transfers, importing, and buying out of state.

Absolutely true, including the highlighted part!