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View Full Version : Stepping up to Serious Range


tanda10506
09-28-2010, 2:30 PM
I've been practicing long range shooting with my AR 15 and my bolt action .308. I'm getting pretty efficient, especially with the .308. I've taken it out to 1100 yards even, which is pretty good for a .308. So I'm going to step up to some longer ranges. I have a few options that I'm considering that are in my price range and I wanted to see some opinions on here of them.

1) AR upper chambered in .51DTC
2) AR upper chambered in .416
3) AR 30 rifle chambered in .338 Lapua Mag

I'd like to go with a .50BMG but that's out of the question here. I know the .510 DTC is close in ballistics but the ammo seems hard to get. Mr Kubota contacted me with some .510 ammo but other then that I haven't been able to find any ammo for it. Ammo price is a factor, but availability is even more of a factor. What do you guys think?

ExtremeX
09-28-2010, 2:39 PM
Personally... I like the .416 round much more than a 50. The ballistics on the .416 is very impressive.

.338 Lapua is also pretty high on my list.

I have no intrest in the .510DTC, its just hard to get the ammo.

wash
09-28-2010, 2:47 PM
Most people shooting the .50 BMG for accuracy wind up reloading.

.510 DTC is easy to fire-form and reload with standard .50 BMG components so ammo availibility really isn't an issue.

.510 DTC is at least price competitive with your other options and might actually be cheaper to shoot.

CSACANNONEER
09-28-2010, 3:12 PM
DTC or .338L. I would never get a .416 Barrett. It's way to overbored (think barrel replacement). Brass is not as easy to make, components are rather limited and load data is sparse. It is a propriatary round which has not really caught on. Dies will have to be custom made, etc.

You will end up reloading BMG or DTC if you go that way. Loading for either is the same. DTC ammo can be loaded very cheaply with surplus 50BMG components. Making DTC brass is easy and I can help you or find someone else to help you learn about loading 50s. Also, with a DTC, you can shoot FCSA matches and more big bore upper makers will have reamers for DTC than .416 reamers.

The .338 L is a fun little round but, it is not in the same class as a 50. Of course, the .416 is more like a necked down 50 spotter than a 50BMG round too.

As far as uppers go, what type are you thinking about getting? IMHO,ff you want the best upper for precission shooting, look at an ALS. Next, would be a Spider Firearms, Bohica and the rest of them. Zel is currently recalling some of their uppers. I would NEVER own a Watson Weapon's upper. They are a PITA to load and have absolutely zero factory support.

Have you thought about getting a complete rifle in DTC? State Arms, Noreen, Serbu, etc? Some of these complete rifles actually cost less than a quality upper and fully built lower with a nice billet stock.

Lastly, I suggest getting opinions from those who actually have experience with these calibers rather than just the keyboard commandos who read the advertising hype about them.

Juice5610
09-28-2010, 3:18 PM
check out Caprc.com plenty of precision long range shooters over there

StraightShooter
09-28-2010, 3:28 PM
Are you going to reload? If not, then forget the 50 and the .416. Even then get ready to pay around $100 per box for .338LM. I am loading my own .338 Lapua for about $1.20 per round with Lapua brass and 300gr SMK's. The .338 LM will get you accurately to a mile (1750 yds) if you know what you are doing and can read wind. At the same range, the 50 and 416 only have a slight advantage in the wind. At extreme long ranges like 2000 yards the 50 and 416 will definitely outclass the 338LM however people have been known to shoot the 338LM to 2000 yards accurately at higher elevations. Before you get head long into the ELR game make sure you have a good grasp on long range shooting first ( 1000 yds) or you will only cost yourself a ton of money in ammo in the long run.

brando
09-28-2010, 3:50 PM
The price of admission to the long range game can be pretty steep. All 3 of those calibers will cost you significantly more than .308 and if that's a roadblock then I suggest you move up to .300WM as an economical alternative.

.50BMG is fun to shoot but can be rather unpleasant for ELR shooting, unless of course the size of your "bang" is important to you (or you're in the .mil world and have an HTI task). I have yet to see a reasonable argument for the .416 - because it's BMG based it still requires the same big, heavy rifle and delivers the same concussive blast. .338LM is a much better balanced round - you don't need a big rifle and you can shoot it all day without getting nauseous ;). It's also more than capable of reaching past a mile.

Of course, once you start shooting past 1200 yards it would behoove you to start making your own loads anyway.

So personally I think you should get a .300WM, take a reloading class and build your skills while stretching it out to 1400 yards or so. Once that becomes easy you can move up to a bigger caliber. Remember: crawl, walk, run.

PS. .375CT owns them all

EL_NinO619
09-28-2010, 3:57 PM
The price of admission to the long range game can be pretty steep. All 3 of those calibers will cost you significantly more than .308 and if that's a roadblock then I suggest you move up to .300WM as an economical alternative.

.50BMG is fun to shoot but can be rather unpleasant for ELR shooting, unless of course the size of your "bang" is important to you (or you're in the .mil world and have an HTI task). I have yet to see a reasonable argument for the .416 - because it's BMG based it still requires the same big, heavy rifle and delivers the same concussive blast. .338LM is a much better balanced round - you don't need a big rifle and you can shoot it all day without getting nauseous ;). It's also more than capable of reaching past a mile.

Of course, once you start shooting past 1200 yards it would behoove you to start making your own loads anyway.

So personally I think you should get a .300WM, take a reloading class and build your skills while stretching it out to 1400 yards or so. Once that becomes easy you can move up to a bigger caliber. Remember: crawl, walk, run.

PS. .375CT owns them all

^^^ + 1 on what he said, but if you do choose a Larger Cal. I would go .338 Lapua, Far better gun i think .416 and .50bmg's are just way to big.

tanda10506
09-28-2010, 4:04 PM
I was looking at a Bohica upper.

I am going to buy a .300 Win Mag Remington 700. I'm looking at getting two rifles and that's going to be one of them. I'm just looking for one that has the capability of roughly 2000 yards in the future.

CSACANNONEER
09-28-2010, 4:10 PM
In my limited experience with Bohicas, I've found them to shoot somewhere around 1.5-2moa with match quality ammo, at best. That's OK for plinking at 1000 and getting your feet wet. But, for shooting at a mile, you aren't going to hit a 55 gal drum every time even if you are doing everything right. But, again, for an entry level, turn key gun, it's an OK choice. If you like it, you'll end up with a Ferret, ALS or a complete rifle within two years though.

StraightShooter
09-28-2010, 4:17 PM
I was looking at a Bohica upper.

I am going to buy a .300 Win Mag Remington 700. I'm looking at getting two rifles and that's going to be one of them. I'm just looking for one that has the capability of roughly 2000 yards in the future.

The real question is how accurate do you want it to be? The Bohica is not known to be a high quality or highly accurate option. Some people would probably even pay you to not get one. The Bohica can surely fling lead 2000 yards but it is not a precision weapon system. If youre going to spend big money on a long range rifle, do it right the first time. Your money would be better spent on a better rifle than to buy both the 300Win mag and a Bohica. This is just my opinion but Im sure most would agree. Have you looked into the DTA SRS? For you, I think that in .338LM would serve you well. If you get that and can shoot well to a mile then sell it and get good resale value and then step up to a .375 CT.

choprzrul
09-28-2010, 4:48 PM
I've been practicing long range shooting with my AR 15 and my bolt action .308. I'm getting pretty efficient, especially with the .308. I've taken it out to 1100 yards even, which is pretty good for a .308. So I'm going to step up to some longer ranges. I have a few options that I'm considering that are in my price range and I wanted to see some opinions on here of them.

1) AR upper chambered in .51DTC
2) AR upper chambered in .416
3) AR 30 rifle chambered in .338 Lapua Mag

I'd like to go with a .50BMG but that's out of the question here. I know the .510 DTC is close in ballistics but the ammo seems hard to get. Mr Kubota contacted me with some .510 ammo but other then that I haven't been able to find any ammo for it. Ammo price is a factor, but availability is even more of a factor. What do you guys think?

I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that a .308 went subsonic a few yds past 1000. Even worse in a semi auto. Anything that drops below the speed of sound encounters the shock wave disruption and accuracy goes out the window. I believe it is something like 768 mph or 1046 fps.

Please don't take me wrong. I am not saying you didn't do it, I am just curious how you did it. I have been tossing around taking my 300winmag to cuyama for a 1000yd shoot and would like to have my son take one of our 308s. I just didn't think that it would have enough umpft to get that far (short barrel'd lightweight bolt actions).

.

brando
09-28-2010, 4:52 PM
Good calculations and good loads can equal a hit in the subsonic zone. Certain bullets going the right speed are still fairly predictable beyond their supersonic range. He'll, my .408 went subsonic at 2250 but was still good to 2500 yards.

tanda10506
09-28-2010, 4:57 PM
The .308 has been taken out further then 1100 yards. When I did it I used the same settings on my scope as 1000 yards and used a little "Kentucky Windage" after that. On the 5th shot I hit a mini fridge, which was the target.

Not finding ammo anywhere for the CheyTac's though.

brando
09-28-2010, 5:03 PM
Jamison International - source for .408 & .375 brass, bullets and loaded ammo

Don't let the prices scare you too much ;)

tanda10506
09-28-2010, 9:44 PM
Wow, yeah I think the Chey Tac is out of the question for me.

pyro3k2
09-28-2010, 11:03 PM
are .260rem, 6.5creedmoor, .300winmag, and the .300rum out of the question?

brando
09-29-2010, 9:22 AM
Exactly my point

Linkpimp
09-30-2010, 1:40 AM
I've got a DTA SRS in a 300 win that your more than welcome try out if you’re local?? (IE. I / we can meet up at the range) You can get just about any conversion for it in just about any caliber you want.. 7WSM, .260Rem, .243Win, 6.5x47Lapua, .300WinMag, .308Win, .338 Lapua, etc, etc, etc. Actually Bobby at FGW will make you any caliber you want for $1,200-1,500.00 http://www.freedomgunworks.com/desert-tactical-arms/freedom-gunworks-barrel-conversions-designed-for-the-stealth-recon-scout/prod_35.html



Brando recommended it to me a long time ago (when I started out on my long range rifle quest), personally I LOVE IT.. (Thanks again) Brando..

Quick spec..
1. Match grade (free-floated) 26" barrel
2. High quality match trigger
3. Match grade chambers
4. 38" overall all length
5. Weight 12 pounds ~ well… (plus scope)
6. Twist 1-10


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Projects/IMG_7456-1.jpg


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Projects/IMG_7463-2.jpg



Shoot me pm if your interested in putting a few rounds down range..

Link.


P.S.
Sorry about the naked lady on the can of whoop ***.. LOL.. That’s just me being me.. Hahahahaaa..

elsolo
09-30-2010, 5:01 PM
If you want to step up your long range shooting, reloading is required.

Start reloading .308 now, that will improve your long game more than a new rifle.

aaronraby1
09-30-2010, 5:08 PM
The price of admission to the long range game can be pretty steep. All 3 of those calibers will cost you significantly more than .308 and if that's a roadblock then I suggest you move up to .300WM as an economical alternative.

.50BMG is fun to shoot but can be rather unpleasant for ELR shooting, unless of course the size of your "bang" is important to you (or you're in the .mil world and have an HTI task). I have yet to see a reasonable argument for the .416 - because it's BMG based it still requires the same big, heavy rifle and delivers the same concussive blast. .338LM is a much better balanced round - you don't need a big rifle and you can shoot it all day without getting nauseous ;). It's also more than capable of reaching past a mile.

Of course, once you start shooting past 1200 yards it would behoove you to start making your own loads anyway.

So personally I think you should get a .300WM, take a reloading class and build your skills while stretching it out to 1400 yards or so. Once that becomes easy you can move up to a bigger caliber. Remember: crawl, walk, run.

PS. .375CT owns them all

yes!!! ill second that! my 300 has never faild at long ranges! especially on animals.