PDA

View Full Version : XXX


DREADNOUGHT78
09-28-2010, 9:45 AM
XXX

Killawhale415
09-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Their little configuration thing on the website is pretty funny.
But yeah those are pretty cool i guess

dieselpower
09-28-2010, 1:09 PM
3 things just be sure of even the OP stated this...just making sure all understand

1) forward grips on pistols = AW
2) forward grips and stocks on pistols creates an AOW under federal law and thus illegal to OWN in CA...it doesnt even have to be installed on the glock IICR...(plz correct me if I am wrong)
3) mounting a VFG on a Glock normally snaps the Glock in half due to torsion action on the frame.....the rail is NOT made for that, its way too thin. Even heavy weapon lights mounted on a Glock can cause jamming issues.

ExtremeX
09-28-2010, 1:46 PM
3) mounting a VFG on a Glock normally snaps the Glock in half due to torsion action on the frame.....the rail is NOT made for that, its way too thin.

This quote just reminded me of this video.

Ouch

11fcg543Jow

dieselpower
09-28-2010, 1:49 PM
This quote just reminded me of this video.

Ouch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow

The box is dead to me...can't see the problem in the code either I see it now.

Yeah looks like someone mounted a G18 slide on a G17Gen3 then mounted a VFG on it...very stupid

ExtremeX
09-28-2010, 1:50 PM
The box is dead to me...can't see the problem in the code either?

Sorry, fixed.

jokat989
09-28-2010, 4:36 PM
that would be legal here if you could find a 16 inch barrel and either find a mag lock or make a grip wrap

grammaton76
09-28-2010, 5:35 PM
that would be legal here if you could find a 16 inch barrel and either find a mag lock or make a grip wrap

Also need to make sure the overall length is 30" too.

ArkinDomino
09-28-2010, 5:48 PM
I've always wanted to try something like that.

G-forceJunkie
09-28-2010, 6:33 PM
18 and 17 slides are not interchangable, by design. Plus, at the beginning when the guy flips the lever from semi to auto, its on the back of the slide. What they have there is a 17 with full auto mod that replaces the rear slide cover.The box is dead to me...can't see the problem in the code either I see it now.

Yeah looks like someone mounted a G18 slide on a G17Gen3 then mounted a VFG on it...very stupid

ponderosa
09-28-2010, 9:34 PM
2) forward grips and stocks on pistols creates an AOW under federal law and thus illegal to OWN in CA...it doesnt even have to be installed on the glock IICR...(plz correct me if I am wrong)


I bolded 'stocks on pistols'... does that include a Luger w/ a stock? I saw one, I'm pretty sure, at a gun shop a few years ago... what is up with that?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AYaFFddDnhA/R2wnqr61GlI/AAAAAAAAAB4/wA53ZM7eJjA/s400/luger-with-magazine.jpg

ETA: Ok, I did some googling and found this (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=6994);
You can google search the ATF website and read all about it.

It is legal to own a Luger stock and a 4" Luger pistol at the same time. It is not legal to attach the two. This makes it a short barelled rifle. The Artillery with the 8" barell and the Navy with the 6" are legal with their respective stocks. But, an Artillery pistol is not legal with a Navy stock and a Navy pistol is not legal with an Artillery stock. They can be replica stocks however.

I'd trust Calguns knowledge more but this seems legit.

And w/ regard to the Glock stocks, I say, why not? Well, other than they're a no-go here. Seems like it would be fun to try out.

dieselpower
09-28-2010, 10:02 PM
Well two grips is an AOW, by ATF. I just read that one Court said "no it wasnt" based on the fact the pistol wasnt designed with two, one grip was merely added later. I would not push that. BATFE says, two grips is an AOW = requires DoJ approval before they will issue the AOW stamp...BUT that is also an AW and DOJ will NOT allow you to do this so the BATFE will NOT issue the stamp.

Short Barreled Rifles are firearms with a shoulder stock and a rifled barrel of less then 16". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_barreled_rifle So by adding this to your Glock you have created an SBR...so you then have to add a 16" barrel...GREAT now you have a Glock Carbine>>>>FOREVER. If you even take the stock off or remove the 16" barrel you have created an SBR. BATFE states, "Once a Rifle, Forever a Rifle". They have enough leeway in how they are allowed to file charges that even owning this stock says your Glock is a SBR...even if you never install it.

Old C&R and Collector items are viewed just that way, so the old luger and Browning Hi-power stocks can be SBRs or C&R (C&R exempt) depending on date.

Quiet
09-28-2010, 10:08 PM
A pistol with a shoulder stock is a SBR.
An unregistered SBR is both a Federal & state felony.
Constructive possession laws makes owning a pistol & a shoulder stock that can attach to that pistol a SBR.

Certain C&R handguns with shoulder stocks have been determined by the BATFE to be exempt from SBR status.

However even though a C&R handgun with shoulder may be exempt from SBR status, it is not exempt from the CA assault weapons laws.

Example:
Luger with original shoulder stock (see pic in above post) = legal under Federal & CA SBR laws, due to the BATFE no longer being considered it a SBR.
Luger with original shoulder stock (see pic in above post) = illegal under CA assault weapons laws. With the shoulder stock attached, it is now (1) a semi-auto centerfire rifle that accepts detachable magazines & has a pistol grip and (2) a semi-auto centerfire rifle with an OAL under 30".

dieselpower
09-28-2010, 10:15 PM
A pistol with a shoulder stock is a SBR.
An unregistered SBR is both a Federal & state felony.
Constructive possession laws makes owning a pistol & a shoulder stock that can attach to that pistol a SBR.

Certain C&R handguns with shoulder stocks have been determined by the BATFE to be exempt from SBR status.

However even though a C&R handgun with shoulder may be exempt from SBR status, it is not exempt from the CA assault weapons laws. Wrong

Example:
Luger with original shoulder stock (see pic in above post) = legal under Federal & CA SBR laws, due to the BATFE no longer being considered it a SBR.
Luger with original shoulder stock (see pic in above post) = illegal under CA assault weapons laws. With the shoulder stock attached, it is now (1) a semi-auto centerfire rifle that accepts detachable magazines & has a pistol grip and (2) a semi-auto centerfire rifle with an OAL under 30".

I disagree with CA viewing a C&R Pistol as an AW rifle...but I am too tired to look up the code. Maybe tomorrow if no one else crys foul...lol

I am fairly sure C&R Firearms are exempt from AW ID law 12276

ke6guj
09-28-2010, 10:53 PM
Well two grips is an AOW, by ATF. I just read that one Court said "no it wasnt" based on the fact the pistol wasnt designed with two, one grip was merely added later. I would not push that. BATFE says, two grips is an AOW = requires DoJ approval before they will issue the AOW stamp...BUT that is also an AW and DOJ will NOT allow you to do this so the BATFE will NOT issue the stamp.two grip is an AOW, but isn't an AW if it has a fixed mag. ATF will approve the Form 1 without CADOJ approval.

Old C&R and Collector items are viewed just that way, so the old luger and Browning Hi-power stocks can be SBRs or C&R (C&R exempt) depending on date.correct, some old lugers, broomhandles and Hi-powers are C&R SBRs which are exempt from the NFA and are do not violate CA's SBR laws. However, assembling one may make an AW, which is not exempt from CA's AW laws.

I disagree with CA viewing a C&R Pistol as an AW rifle...but I am too tired to look up the code. Maybe tomorrow if no one else crys foul...lolYes, it is considered an AW. IIRC, Dominguez had an C&R luger with a detached shoulder stock. LAPD charged him with the AW violation, not an SBR violation, even though it wasn't assembled. Had LAPD assembled it, they would have made an AW, not Dominguez. Charges got dismissed due to excellent lawyering by Michel & Assoc (IIRC).

I am fairly sure C&R Firearms are exempt from AW ID law 12276nope, no AW exemption for C&R. There is a C&R exemption for .50BMG rifles.

dieselpower
09-29-2010, 10:28 AM
two grip is an AOW, but isn't an AW if it has a fixed mag. ATF will approve the Form 1 without CADOJ approval.

correct, some old lugers, broomhandles and Hi-powers are C&R SBRs which are exempt from the NFA and are do not violate CA's SBR laws. However, assembling one may make an AW, which is not exempt from CA's AW laws.

Yes, it is considered an AW. IIRC, Dominguez had an C&R luger with a detached shoulder stock. LAPD charged him with the AW violation, not an SBR violation, even though it wasn't assembled. Had LAPD assembled it, they would have made an AW, not Dominguez. Charges got dismissed due to excellent lawyering by Michel & Assoc (IIRC).

nope, no AW exemption for C&R. There is a C&R exemption for .50BMG rifles.

Correct I confussed C&R with Antique. All Antique firearms made prior to 1899 are NOT AWs. I thought the Luger was manufactured in 1890, but in fact it was 1900, The C-93 is Antique, the P-08 is C&R.