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View Full Version : For a 870, which one should I get?


Jicko
05-25-2006, 1:03 PM
There are so many favours......

I want to do 3-guns, I want to have it as home defence, yet I wanna shot sporting clay...

;-)

I guess... a 18" w/ extended magazine is probably what I want.... (since... altho not optimal... i can still shoot sporting clay with an 18")

So... now... for a 18".... what choices are recommended, guys?

Oh by the way, why is the new 870 tactical($500+ @ turners) so much more expensive than a 870 synthetic($299 @ big5)?

Stanze
05-25-2006, 1:28 PM
Doesn't the Turner's 870 have a factory extended mag, pistol grip Speedfeed stock, "custom" finish and "TACTICAL" rollmarked on the receiver?

That could explain the price difference.

I used to own a 870 w/ all the tacti-cool bells and whistles and found it kinda heavy and unbalanced fully loaded. A stock 870 may of felt better with at least a extended mag.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4580/untitled3yh1.jpg
(old early 90's pic, sidesaddle and heat shield not installed)

You get what you pay for.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4382/11874io.jpg
If it's for 3 gun, just buy a 11-87 Police Model at CPE and be done with it, like what this guy did.:D

kantstudien
05-25-2006, 1:44 PM
So long as it says "Police" on the side of the receiver instead of "Express," you will be fine.

6172crew
05-25-2006, 2:31 PM
I have an old school Wingmaster 870 that I traded out the skeet barrel for a Police and use for HD, Id think the 11-87 is the way to go for 3 gun.

mblat
05-25-2006, 4:52 PM
So long as it says "Police" on the side of the receiver instead of "Express," you will be fine.

Why? What is the difference?

fourXfour
05-26-2006, 5:33 AM
This would be the official difference between the Express line and Police line


The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality. All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences. It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.

While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police. To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.


• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

PAGE 2 of 2

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

Jicko
05-26-2006, 9:40 AM
But a 870EXPRESS cost only like $299.... while a 870POLICE is like $500+???

The only thing I see kinda important is "magazine extension".... but... $299 model I found in Big5 is already 18" barrel and 7 shots......

http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=browsepagedetail&storeid=2503808&rapid=272779&pagenumber=6&listingid=-2095073488&ref=%2fbig5%2fdefault.aspx%3faction%3dbrowsepagesi ngle%26storeid%3d2503808%26rapid%3d272779%26pagenu mber%3d6

Stanze
05-26-2006, 9:45 AM
But a 870EXPRESS cost only like $299.... while a 870POLICE is like $500+???

The only thing I see kinda important is "magazine extension".... but... $299 model I found in Big5 is already 18" barrel and 7 shots......

http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=browsepagedetail&storeid=2503808&rapid=272779&pagenumber=6&listingid=-2095073488&ref=%2fbig5%2fdefault.aspx%3faction%3dbrowsepagesi ngle%26storeid%3d2503808%26rapid%3d272779%26pagenu mber%3d6

My 870 was an Express model and I had to drill out the magazine(voiding the warranty-which I didn't know I was doing at the time) to install the extended magazine. I was disappointed in it's ugly, easily rusted finish. Being a n00b to guns, I assumed all 870s were like that and wondered what the big deal was? After reading that Police shotgun post, it's clear that the Police 870 is a better tactical duty weapon, but if you want it to shoot and not spend too much, buy the 870 Express.

I think $299.00 is too much money for a 870 Express.:D

Jicko
05-26-2006, 10:21 AM
I was thinking, if I have to pay like $539 to get a 870Tactical.... from turners... why don't I just pay about the same $$ to get the FN TPS from online... and it got the rails, ported barrel, pistol grip, telescoping stock and a C-more red-dot sight.....

rushta
05-26-2006, 7:31 PM
870 express riot from turners is 339, sometimes 309. Also police models aren't all super expensive. You can get them for around 400 if you look around enough.

esskay
05-27-2006, 9:51 AM
I have a 870 police, it also has a parkerized finish IIRC.

Omega13device
05-27-2006, 9:57 AM
I was thinking, if I have to pay like $539 to get a 870Tactical.... from turners... why don't I just pay about the same $$ to get the FN TPS from online... and it got the rails, ported barrel, pistol grip, telescoping stock and a C-more red-dot sight.....

What makes the 870 Tactical $240 better than the Express 18" synthetic HD model with the 7-shot mag? Is it just more tacticool?

Jicko
05-27-2006, 10:11 AM
What makes the 870 Tactical $240 better than the Express 18" synthetic HD model with the 7-shot mag? Is it just more tacticool?

I've been asking that questions...

And I really would like to know what are the exact "Police Accessories" (surefires??) that a 870Police can use and a 870Express can't.....

870Tactical DO have its benefit... in that it comes with the Knoxx Industry $130 SpecOps recoil reduction pistolgrip/stock.... (but this is the only thing i know... I don't even know if 870Tactical is built on top of an 870P or an 870E)

rushta
05-27-2006, 11:58 AM
870 Tactical is on an express reciever. The Police is beefier as stated before, and worth it in my eyes. The specops stock isnt worth much to me. Just get a bunch of ammo and shoot it up at clay pigeons or doing drills. 100 rds a week (15 for the federal value packs at walmart) for two months and slugs, 00b, and whatever else you want to shoot will not bother you much. I can shoot a lot of full power 00b out of a light Mossberg 500 with out any trouble after building up some toughness in my shoulder, kinda like blocking with forearms in karate. After you get used to a lot of shooting it, it ceases to hurt.

The Police has a parkerized finish, stronger springs, a metal triggerguard ($80 seperate), the R3 recoil pad ($30 seperate, very good), and it says POLICE MAGNUM on the side too.:)

It's worth the extra money to get the police. At impact guns, you can get an 870P starting at $400. If the specops stock was so wonderful I think you might see some .mil support.

The Remington Police models are the same ones supplied to the military. #4449 is my personal favorite but it is slightly pricey at $580 with the wilson combat sights. I will pick one up as soon as I finish my 2 ARs and get a M700 for my big scope to go on.

870s have a STEEL reciever, which is far superior to aluminium in my eyes because it adds good weight up close and balances better. The more a gun weighs, the slower the recoil velocity (the acceleration of the firearm towards you on firing) and the more of a "push" the recoil comes rather than a punch.

Mossber 590s and 500s are fine too. The 590s were going for 339 at turners recently, and the 500s will go on sale at big 5 for 240 with an 18 and 28 inch barrel.

870s are better, in my opinion though. Get an 870 police, I don't think you will regret it.

Jicko
05-27-2006, 1:23 PM
rushta, thanks for your posting.... there are just so many variation on a 870that make it so confusing.... and your posting is to the point stating the real difference between a 870P and 870E....

now... is there ANY local stores that carry these? I know Big5 and Turner always have some 870... but seemingly now, that they won't be the nice "POLICE" version?

do you know anything about the FN-TPS then? once getting up to like $500+.... I may be able to get a FN-TPS instead...

Mesa Tactical
05-27-2006, 1:24 PM
And I really would like to know what are the exact "Police Accessories" (surefires??) that a 870Police can use and a 870Express can't.....

Just the magazine extension. A plain-Jane Express has a dimpled magazine. It's not meant to accept a magazine extension. You have to drill the dimples out before it can accept a magazine extension.

Of course, for a while now Remington has been selling Express models (such as their Special Purpose and Tactical) with the magazine extension already installed.

870 Police models are sold through a different division of Remington, Remington Law Enforcement, so they are generally not available through normal retail channels. Not because of any legal reasons, just because of how the distribution is set up. You might try Davidsons, or a police supplier like All State Police Equipment Company of Pomona, or a smaller FFL specializing in LE sales. We bought ours from Vang Comp Systems.

Jicko
05-27-2006, 1:35 PM
How much will a 870Police + VangComp cost? I have heard a LOT of good reviews on the VC...

Scotto
05-27-2006, 2:39 PM
Im not sure what you need but if you decide on a regular express wait until august when everything goes on dove hunter special. I picked one up last year for like 220 or somthing.

rushta
05-27-2006, 2:40 PM
I am slightly hybridizing a couple of your questions about which 870 and 870 vs TPS, but here it is.

The VCS is pricey but good. I haven't decided that I need less recoil than what a standard 870 kicks out with Win Super X 9 pellet full power. It just isn't that bad for me to justify a ported barrel yet, at least if you shoot enough. A VC system will cost 240 with ports, but remember the TPS porting system only reduces muzzle flip.

An 870P with VCS will cost about 640, but if you just want it ported it would be 480.

The main benefit of the VC system come from lengthening the forcing cone and back boring the barrel. This reduces recoil and improves accuracy. You can get a barrel ported from Magnaport for around $80, which is basically what the TPS has. It does nothing for better patterning or accuracy.

A TPS also is nothing more than a fancy winchester 1300. It has (to the best of my knowledge) an aluminum reciever which is a big - in my book for reasons state earlier. It is not a very good shotgun design, despite the rotary bolt the action is not smooth or very reliable. It's light, uses a small, uncomfortable (for heavy recoil anyway) stock that doesn't readily accept good recoil pads (a pad is all the recoil reduction you really need) with a pistol grip and a higher line of sight. The pistol grip will not handle right for anything besides tactical shooting, and is slower to bring up from the waist. Collapsable stock on a shotgun? I don't see a need for it.

I know you can get an 870P brought in by a good FFL, I can IM you a good one in Escondido if you want.

esskay
05-27-2006, 6:17 PM
rushta, thanks for your posting.... there are just so many variation on a 870that make it so confusing.... and your posting is to the point stating the real difference between a 870P and 870E....

now... is there ANY local stores that carry these? I know Big5 and Turner always have some 870... but seemingly now, that they won't be the nice "POLICE" version?

do you know anything about the FN-TPS then? once getting up to like $500+.... I may be able to get a FN-TPS instead...

I think it will be cheapest to purchase from out of state (e.g. I bought my 870P from http://www.firinglineinc.com/store1/. Looks like their site is being overhauled so you can't see their pricing but it was really good at the time)

These guys are in the SD area, you could check them out:
http://www.capoliceequip.com/main.htm
I've had good experiences buying ammo from them mail order but I've never been there in person.

Jicko
05-27-2006, 9:38 PM
I think it will be cheapest to purchase from out of state (e.g. I bought my 870P from http://www.firinglineinc.com/store1/. Looks like their site is being overhauled so you can't see their pricing but it was really good at the time)

I think i really have to search around....


These guys are in the SD area, you could check them out:
http://www.capoliceequip.com/main.htm
I've had good experiences buying ammo from them mail order but I've never been there in person.

Their 870P-max is a little pricey... @ $899!!!

ivanimal
05-28-2006, 12:00 AM
I would buy an 870 wingmaster and accessorize it after you get used to shooting it. All the crap you can put on it and model differences that cost money wont help if you are uncomfortable with the weapon. I bought a wingmaster as my first shotgun in 76" and still enjoy shooting clays with its full choke. On the other hand I have an Express and a few other guns as well. They all have their good points and their pains as well. I do not own a Mossberg but the last time I shot one I did really well with it. I say dont just take peoples words for what you may like. Try a bunch of guns till you see what fits. If you go to a gun club most of the guys will let you shoot theirs, if you show real interest, are not a pain in the ***, and bring your own quality ammo. I have found that taking a shotgun class no matter how well you shoot is good for gettin in touch with new or tried and true methods. People in the classes usually bring guns and let you shoot them. I find the police models to be tighter than the regular 870's that is great for deer and turkey not so good for duck and dove where speedy second shots are a must. All that said my go to gun is the Browning Gold Hunter in a 3 1/2" chamber. Semi autos are hard to beat.

wangankin
05-28-2006, 10:52 AM
There are so many favours......

I want to do 3-guns, I want to have it as home defence, yet I wanna shot sporting clay...

;-)

I guess... a 18" w/ extended magazine is probably what I want.... (since... altho not optimal... i can still shoot sporting clay with an 18")

So... now... for a 18".... what choices are recommended, guys?

Oh by the way, why is the new 870 tactical($500+ @ turners) so much more expensive than a 870 synthetic($299 @ big5)?


Ill tell you right now; buy which ever 870 which tickles your fancy. After your fancy has been tickled... Contact:

Bob Day
562-923-3608
www.americhoke.com

He can install choke tubes onto your 18" barrel... QUALITY work... I can dispatch clays (the kind that leave clay dust lingering in the sky like flak) at a distance.

Mesa Tactical
05-29-2006, 1:12 PM
How much will a 870Police + VangComp cost? I have heard a LOT of good reviews on the VC...

I think it's about $1,200. Same as a Wilson, only Vang sells you a Police instead of an Express.

rushta
05-30-2006, 6:09 AM
Thats the whole gun from him, plus other goodies. Again, just the Police and the Vang Comp ported and tweaked barrel is $640.

Mesa Tactical
05-30-2006, 6:53 AM
Thats the whole gun from him, plus other goodies. Again, just the Police and the Vang Comp ported and tweaked barrel is $640.

Yeah, it's the complete Vang Police 870, with the barrel, magazine extension, LPA ghost ring and front post, oversized safety and fancy magazine follower:

http://www.mesatactical.com/images/vang_comp_870_police.jpg

I mention the package price because Jicko is looking for a base 870 Police to begin with, and these are hard to find at typical firearms retailers. If you go to Vang and give him $1,200 or $1,300, he'll sell you an 870 Police complete with all the goodies.

For a casual shooter, that's probably an awful lot of gun. I needed the ghost ring because I have a physical problem that won't let me use the bead to shoot slugs accurately.

Robf
05-31-2006, 10:13 PM
Are these 870 Police version common to find? I've been looking around for a shotgun and wonder what's the typical cost of these shotguns.

Rob

Stanze
05-31-2006, 10:26 PM
Are these 870 Police version common to find? I've been looking around for a shotgun and wonder what's the typical cost of these shotguns.

Rob

Read the thread, all your questions are answered right here in this very thread you posted in.