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View Full Version : M16A1 Upper kit questions.


C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 3:36 PM
As much as it PAINS me to do it, I cant just sit here on top of all these 30 rounder 16 mags I found and NOT have a rifle that uses them. If only they were AK mags! :rolleyes:

So the only 16 I'd ever be interested in owning is an A1 type, you know, before the 16 weighed 12 pounds. I see these Colt kits with new barrel floating around and it looks like the ticket.

Ive heard that there are discrepancies between the old Colt uppers and new OLL's. Something about the pins being different sizes.

So the question is which lower has the correct dimensions? Im not looking for anything super, as a matter of fact I perfer the LRB's as the finish and machining is damn near the same as my old issued rifles. No need for an spikes or similarly priced piece.

So what do I need to look for in a lower to match one of the Colt kits?

bgoodman
09-26-2010, 3:44 PM
http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

DB2
09-26-2010, 3:46 PM
Any current lower will work with those kits. The problem lies with the SP1 upper matched to a non SP1 lower.

Get any current legal lower, and it will match. Nodak Spud is the perfect lower for it, but any will work.

jtmkinsd
09-26-2010, 3:59 PM
Brownells sells an adapter bushing for $3.19. Get one and use any lower you like :D

This is assuming the forward hole is .315 as opposed to .250 (AR pivot/takedown pin hole size). The difference in hole size is very apparent just looking at them on the upper, so you would know if you need it.

DB2
09-26-2010, 4:27 PM
^^^^

And now you just confused him.



All you have are mags right?

Here's some info for you. All the A1 kits on the market are surplus MILITARY parts kits with new barrels. All Colt military uppers from any year, take the .250 front pins. So any Colt parts kit will fit any current Ca legal lower.

The only way you would be able to have a lower with a larger front pin hole would to have RAW Colt SP1 lower. The only uppers that have LARGE front pin holes are Colt COMMERCIAL SP1 uppers.

If you buy a kit, you don't need a bushing. If you buy any version Colt M16 upper from anywhere, you don't need a bushing.

If you buy a SP1 upper, you will need a bushing.

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 4:27 PM
Most or all of the M16 surplus kits minus lower you see on the web will not ship to California. If I remember correctly The only lowers with the big hole front take down pin are named assault rifle lowers in California anyway(Colt)

I am currently building a XM16E1 retro from an old Colt 603 upper that is 1/12 twist pencil barreled late 60's vintage.

Any lower will work, but I chose to get a somewhat correct lower for my Retro build. nodak spud was the one I went with, it is not listed(OLL) and is correct for my build.

Also I can not use 11+ round mags and have to have a non detachable magazine(BB) because of the evil features(flash hider, pistol grip)

Chris

I tested my old Colt upper with a new LMT complete lower from RifleGear(another build) to sight it in today...picture.


http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/IBM_Carbine/DSCN0591.jpg

C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 4:43 PM
Most or all of the M16 surplus kits minus lower you see on the web will not ship to California. If I remember correctly The only lowers with the big hole front take down pin are named assault rifle lowers in California anyway(Colt)

I am currently building a XM16E1 retro from an old Colt 603 upper that is 1/12 twist pencil barreled late 60's vintage.

Any lower will work, but I chose to get a somewhat correct lower for my Retro build. nodak spud was the one I went with, it is not listed(OLL) and is correct for my build.

Also I can not use 11+ round mags and have to have a non detachable magazine(BB) because of the evil features(flash hider, pistol grip)

Chris

I tested my old Colt upper with a new LMT complete lower from RifleGear(another build) to sight it in today...picture.


http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/IBM_Carbine/DSCN0591.jpg

Ive found more than a few places that have indicated they will ship here, just without the magazine

Which lower from Nodak is the correct A1 lower, and how does it differ from say an LRB?

Oh and itll be featurless, so Ill be using my standard capacity mags.

oh and nice looking rifle. Exactly what Im thinking of.

DB2
09-26-2010, 4:49 PM
Gun things, Copes, Apex, Henderson Defense, all ship to Ca. They will remove the mag and the sear.

The difference is in the profile between Nodak, and anyone else.

Nodak= a1 profile and grey color
everyone else = a2 profile and black color.

C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 4:53 PM
Gun things, Copes, Apex, Henderson Defense, all ship to Ca. They will remove the mag and the sear.

The difference is in the profile between Nodak, and anyone else.

Nodak= a1 profile and grey color
everyone else = a2 profile and black color.

How is the A1 profile different from the A2?
Is copes out? I cant find them.

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 4:54 PM
Ive found more than a few places that have indicated they will ship here, just without the magazine

Which lower from Nodak is the correct A1 lower, and how does it differ from say an LRB?

Oh and itll be featurless, so Ill be using my standard capacity mags.

oh and nice looking rifle. Exactly what Im thinking of.

I am glad some vendors are shipping CA now! :D

I would select the upper you want first, then build off of that. Mine is a 603 Colt upper with the old teardrop forward assist, 20" 1/12 twist pencil barrel, light gray upper.

Here is the site to figure out the proper lower for your upper.

http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/index.html

Here is the link to nodak spuds retro lower site if you decided to go full retro.

http://www.nodakspud.com/


Hope this helps.

Bongos
09-26-2010, 5:20 PM
Chris

I tested my old Colt upper with a new LMT complete lower from RifleGear(another build) to sight it in today...picture.


http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/IBM_Carbine/DSCN0591.jpg

Which Range is this? It's not Burro, or Angeles

C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 5:22 PM
And anyone have a link to a guide on assembling an upper?

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 5:23 PM
A place to shoot! it was hot and crowded but fun anyway.

Don Nguyen
09-26-2010, 5:24 PM
http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

I bought 5 AR lowers from them.

DB2
09-26-2010, 5:29 PM
I am currently building a XM16E1 retro from an old Colt 603 upper that is 1/12 twist pencil barreled late 60's vintage.




http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/IBM_Carbine/DSCN0591.jpg

What are the markings on your barrel? That is actually an A1 upper, not a XM16E1 upper. Sorry, just nitpicky.:D

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 5:36 PM
I bought 5 AR lowers from them.

What did you think, retro worthy? I am hoping the NDS-XM16E1 is light gray so it matches my light gray upper. I will find out tomorrow anyway as it will be here in CA.

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 5:43 PM
What are the markings on your barrel? That is actually an A1 upper, not a XM16E1 upper. Sorry, just nitpicky.:D

SAK MP B

What makes it an A1 upper apposed to a XM16E1? No forge codes under the rear sight maybe?

Crap I already ordered my full fence lower...should I have ordered a partial fence?

:confused:

DB2
09-26-2010, 5:58 PM
SAK MP B

What makes it a A1 upper apposed to a XM16E1?

:confused:

Check it out. Front upper corner of ejection port. All Xm16E1 transfering to early A1, has a square forging. 1964-67

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/M16A1%20upper%20guide/64-67small.jpg

ALL A1 uppers after 67 has a round forging. I won't get into forging codes and no codes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/M16A1%20upper%20guide/68-69small.jpg


Yours is round. I don't see any forge codes, so I assume it's pre 71. The barrel is a replacement, probably done in the late 70's.


Your lower you ordered is absolutely correct. Full fence. M16A1. Partial fence would be XM16E1. Your good.



I don't mean to nitpick. I just think that it should be called what it is. Kinda like how AK guy's are with their comblok rifles. :)

KaTooM
09-26-2010, 6:03 PM
Check it out. Front upper corner of ejection port. All Xm16E1 transfering to early A1, has a square forging. 1964-67

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/M16A1%20upper%20guide/64-67small.jpg

ALL A1 uppers after 67 has a round forging. I won't get into forging codes and no codes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/M16A1%20upper%20guide/68-69small.jpg


Yours is round. I don't see any forge codes, so I assume it's pre 71. The barrel is a replacement, probably done in the late 70's.


Your lower you ordered is absolutely correct. Full fence. M16A1. Partial fence would be XM16E1. Your good.



I don't mean to nitpick. I just think that it should be called what it is. Kinda like how AK guy's are with their comblok rifles. :)

Thanks

So my not retro build is proceding as planned.

FUBAR

:banghead:

DB2
09-26-2010, 6:07 PM
How is the A1 profile different from the A2?
Is copes out? I cant find them.

I just noticed your in Fresno. PRK has two comlpete SP1 uppers on their wall. I believe Jeff told me he had everything for them, but the lower. He said he had the bushing needed to mate the upper and lower. He's had them for a while.

If your interested. Just to let you know.

DB2
09-26-2010, 6:10 PM
Thanks

So my not retro build is proceding as planned.

FUBAR

:banghead:

Nah, It's definitely retro!!!!! Those SAK barrels are supposed to be really good.

C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 6:54 PM
Thanks DB2, but what do they want for em?

DB2
09-26-2010, 7:02 PM
Don't know. I only wanted some parts from them, but he wouldn't let me break them up.

They are nice. But not worth more than the kits on the market.

pyro3k2
09-26-2010, 8:36 PM
Why not go with the A2 it's still retro and you get a better rear iron sight. Or am I missing the point completely...

btw have you been into PRK recently they just got their AOW state/fed. licence and have some fun looking **** up on the wall...now I just need to convince myself I dont need a AOW siaga 12 pistol.

C.W.M.V.
09-26-2010, 10:50 PM
Nah your good man, I just want an A1 if Im going to get a 16.

So whats the point of stocking a shotgun pistol if no one can buy it?

pyro3k2
09-27-2010, 5:52 PM
If my understanding of the law is correct, you can transfer AOW but not RAW's

C.W.M.V.
09-28-2010, 8:13 PM
Anyone have a step by step write up for building one of these uppers?