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View Full Version : My talk with Tim at Knights Armament


MissionMTMan
09-24-2010, 11:46 AM
I just got off the phone with Tim Rupert at Knights Armament. I was talking to him about the KAC Triple Tap. I asked him if they were planning on offering it in a different type of metal to lower the price. He told me they had no intention of doing that because that would only "cheapen" the design and product. He also stated that it was intended to be used with their Suppressors.

My reply was that there is a huge market for the triple tap in a less expensive metal. I also stated that it wouldn't cheapen the existing product because it would be an entirely new product not designed to work with suppressors. I made sure to say that it has a lot more purpose than to just be used with a suppressor. I did my best to argue a valid point to make them in a different metal but I feel my efforts were in vain. It really is too bad because it is an amazing design. I would love to get these really cheap for you guys but there is no way to do it. The Triple tap is still extremely expensive wholesale.

For anyone saying KAC isn't making these anymore, you are wrong. They are still being made; you just have to wait a good while before you receive them.

Hova
09-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Although thats too bad, I would still rather support a company like Battle Comp that not only makes cost effective products, but also is so willing to help us Californians. (much like KAC does NOT do)

till44
09-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Some of KAC's stuff is great, the 3T being one of them. But now with the new Battle Comp available, I think there exists a better and cheaper alternative. Plus, you'll be supporting a company from CA, one that supports us Californians and the our endeavors to get past the dronian gun laws of CA.

till44
09-24-2010, 11:57 AM
Hova - Looks like we were running on the same track at the same time.

Hova
09-24-2010, 11:58 AM
Hova - Looks like we were running on the same track at the same time.

Amen to that. The 3T is really cool, but $400+ isnt worth me buying into the trend

PaperPuncher
09-24-2010, 12:30 PM
I just got off the phone with Tim Rupert at Knights Armament. I was talking to him about the KAC Triple Tap. I asked him if they were planning on offering it in a different type of metal to lower the price. He told me they had no intention of doing that because that would only "cheapen" the design and product. He also stated that it was intended to be used with their Suppressors.

What he really meant was "why would I cut all that margin out of my product when people keep buying this one and and netting me 5000% margin on a piece of metal?"

A sucker is born every minute. And as long as that holds true I would give the same answer if in Tim's shoes.

Cyc Wid It
09-24-2010, 12:51 PM
Clearly his government contacts informed him that you post on a California based forum and intend to do business with Californians. You're lucky if you don't wake up with a suppressed triple tap in your face in the morning.

THT
09-24-2010, 1:11 PM
Can't wait to see the pricing on the Super Tap :rofl:

ArkinDomino
09-24-2010, 1:58 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/047/109/original/1269812629531.jpg?1271842017
Sorry guys....


I had to.

MissionMTMan
09-24-2010, 2:27 PM
Ya, I can understand where you guys are coming from. KAC has an insanely high profit margin on their products. I just wished they didn't make such nice stuff. I would love to see the Battlecomp go head to head with a Triple Tap.

MasterYong
09-24-2010, 3:16 PM
I hadn't seen the Battle Comp before (been offline for awhile).

NICE. That vid is convincing. Very tempting.

stormy_clothing
09-24-2010, 3:26 PM
PWS 556 works fine and looks meaner

JJ1911
09-24-2010, 6:21 PM
I ordered up a Battle Comp, it should be here tomorrow. I have high hopes, and Cpt Nick was really helpful! I've never really had an inclination to pick up a triple tap, but hopefully I can find someone who has one to compare it to.

CHS
09-24-2010, 9:11 PM
If I ran an SBR, I would totally put a triple-tap on it. Aside from that, it's not actually all that great of a muzzle device.

It's great for SBR's and suppressors, and that's about it.

MissionMTMan
09-24-2010, 10:33 PM
Why not for a 16" build? I will not take the answer, "there is already almost no kick."
Alright, I tell you what. I will build 2 identical rifles and do a test with a battlecomp if one of you is willing to loan me one for a couple days. I don't have any high speed cameras but I can do my best with video to give a good comparison. I currently don't have a triple tap so it will be a little while. It will be about 45 to 60 days before I get it. KAC is still making them but that is my estimated ETA on the TT.

CHS
09-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Why not for a 16" build? I will not take the answer, "there is already almost no kick."

Because the Triple-Tap just isn't that great of a brake.

The triple-tap was designed to soften and reduce the concussion from an SBR FIRST, and as a muzzle brake second.

The concussion from a 10.5" barrel is much closer to your face and much bigger than from a 16" barrel.

The battle-comp follows basically the same design philosophy, but costs 1/3 that of a triple-tap.

If I had an SBR, I would have a triple-tap, battle-comp, noveske KX3 (pig), or troy claymore on it in a heartbeat as they are all designed for the same thing.

If you're looking for a good muzzle brake, there are better brakes out there for 16" barrels where the concussion-reducing aspect isn't as important. Also, for less money.

1811
09-25-2010, 5:35 AM
FYI...the LE price from KAC direct is $350 for the 3T....(that does not include being singled out at the KAC booth /SHOT 09 because I wore a badge that said CALIFORNIA). I was looking at their products behind the glass case and was talking to Kristy (who is awesome), and some older dude...about halfway through the conversation, the older dude looked at my badge and just stopped talking to me and said out loud..."always look at where they are from first" telling Kristy...

I felt like a BLOOD on CRIP territory...it was a little uncomfortable...

Great stuff, but man that Knight guy sure hates everything about us here...

Dhena81
09-25-2010, 6:32 PM
FYI...the LE price from KAC direct is $350 for the 3T....(that does not include being singled out at the KAC booth /SHOT 09 because I wore a badge that said CALIFORNIA). I was looking at their products behind the glass case and was talking to Kristy (who is awesome), and some older dude...about halfway through the conversation, the older dude looked at my badge and just stopped talking to me and said out loud..."always look at where they are from first" telling Kristy...

I felt like a BLOOD on CRIP territory...it was a little uncomfortable...

Great stuff, but man that Knight guy sure hates everything about us here...

Too bad your not aloud to just beat people up anymore I would have liked to make that man squeal that's just rude.

Veggie
09-25-2010, 6:35 PM
I was looking at their products behind the glass case and was talking to Kristy (who is awesome), and some older dude...about halfway through the conversation, the older dude looked at my badge and just stopped talking to me and said out loud..."always look at where they are from first" telling Kristy...

WTF? What happened to customer service? Makes me not want to give them a dime. Not because of their refusal to ship anything here but their arrogance and rude behavior.

jonni
09-25-2010, 6:49 PM
FYI...the LE price from KAC direct is $350 for the 3T....(that does not include being singled out at the KAC booth /SHOT 09 because I wore a badge that said CALIFORNIA). I was looking at their products behind the glass case and was talking to Kristy (who is awesome), and some older dude...about halfway through the conversation, the older dude looked at my badge and just stopped talking to me and said out loud..."always look at where they are from first" telling Kristy...

I felt like a BLOOD on CRIP territory...it was a little uncomfortable...

Great stuff, but man that Knight guy sure hates everything about us here...

WOW

screw them

MissionMTMan
09-25-2010, 8:36 PM
Wow. I'm really sorry to hear that. That is not right. One negative experience gets around really fast so I am sure that will hurt their business. California is such a huge market too.

problemchild
09-25-2010, 8:56 PM
The Gucci rifle with the Ferrari price tag, no thanks! And they can STUFF THEIR I HATE CA ATTITUDE where the sun dont shine!

Cyc Wid It
09-25-2010, 10:00 PM
Hey, you can actually access their website with an IP that's from CA! All kidding aside, people don't knock their product, it's just their attitude.

THT
09-25-2010, 10:01 PM
The Gucci rifle with the Ferrari price tag, no thanks! And they can STUFF THEIR I HATE CA ATTITUDE where the sun dont shine!

Hate to tell ya but that LMT MWS that you enjoy so much was a result of alot of collaboration between KAC and LMT. Just sayin' :)

Cyc Wid It
09-25-2010, 10:04 PM
Hate to tell ya but that LMT MWS that you enjoy so much was a result of alot of collaboration between KAC and LMT. Just sayin' :)

But LMT doesn't treat us like crap.

THT
09-25-2010, 10:05 PM
But LMT doesn't treat us like crap.

Ain't that the truth?! The folks at LMT have been consistently great to work with and I'm proud to be one of their dealers.

1811
09-26-2010, 6:43 AM
Yeah...I think they are so busy with .mil contracts that they are good to go regarding the business aspect.

bgoodman
09-26-2010, 9:35 AM
Please buy a Battle Comp. You get a product that is just as good for 300 bucks less. Its a no brainer.

Cyc Wid It
09-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Please buy a Battle Comp. You get a product that is just as good for 300 bucks less. Its a no brainer.

Thinking about one of these. For all those people always *****ing and moaning about supporting local businesses, Battle Comp folks are based in SF.

Code7inOaktown
09-26-2010, 12:16 PM
Wow. That is just idiotic. If they aren't smart enough to realize that we all are on the same side they're not deserving of our money. Get the battle comp.

NiteQwill
09-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Battle Comp +1

Shot it, loved it.

All the pleasures of a PSW FSC556 without the concussion.

Waiting for the 1.5 to put on my 14.5" build.

KAC TTT is too damn much.

dchang0
09-26-2010, 7:19 PM
FYI...the LE price from KAC direct is $350 for the 3T....(that does not include being singled out at the KAC booth /SHOT 09 because I wore a badge that said CALIFORNIA). I was looking at their products behind the glass case and was talking to Kristy (who is awesome), and some older dude...about halfway through the conversation, the older dude looked at my badge and just stopped talking to me and said out loud..."always look at where they are from first" telling Kristy...

I felt like a BLOOD on CRIP territory...it was a little uncomfortable...

Great stuff, but man that Knight guy sure hates everything about us here...

Shoulda said "YEAH, I'M FROM AMERICA, HOW ABOUT YOU?" really loud.

P08
09-26-2010, 7:36 PM
KAC, living off the taxpayers dime -total entitlement philosophy! Nice to know the free market isnt alive and well. When their contract runs out or are cut, bet they will be singing a far different toon -but I wont be buying it though!

keson
09-26-2010, 7:41 PM
buy once cry once

"Cheap is Expensive and Expensive is Cheap"

Remember these words when your having to buy two of everything instead of getting the right thing first

Cyc Wid It
09-26-2010, 7:49 PM
buy once cry once

"Cheap is Expensive and Expensive is Cheap"

Remember these words when your having to buy two of everything instead of getting the right thing first

What does this have anything to do with KAC?

dchang0
09-26-2010, 8:09 PM
What does this have anything to do with KAC?

He's implying that if you buy KAC, you're buying quality, and therefore you will save money in the long run.

keson
09-26-2010, 8:18 PM
He's implying that if you buy KAC, you're buying quality, and therefore you will save money in the long run.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant! Thank you sir.

Pryde
09-26-2010, 8:49 PM
Because the Triple-Tap just isn't that great of a brake.

The triple-tap was designed to soften and reduce the concussion from an SBR FIRST, and as a muzzle brake second.

The concussion from a 10.5" barrel is much closer to your face and much bigger than from a 16" barrel.

The battle-comp follows basically the same design philosophy, but costs 1/3 that of a triple-tap.

If I had an SBR, I would have a triple-tap, battle-comp, noveske KX3 (pig), or troy claymore on it in a heartbeat as they are all designed for the same thing.

If you're looking for a good muzzle brake, there are better brakes out there for 16" barrels where the concussion-reducing aspect isn't as important. Also, for less money.

Yea, but how are the tactical airsoft guys gonna show off how much money they spent?

Don't you know it is a fashion faux-pas to use anything less than a triple tap with your $800 plate carrier/chest rig?

Cyc Wid It
09-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Yes, this is exactly what I meant! Thank you sir.

I guess what I meant was, there are other companies that make as-good quality products that don't treat us like 2nd class citizens. Therefore, you can save money and dignity in the long run by buying quality that comes from a non-KAC company.

NiteQwill
09-26-2010, 10:18 PM
buy once cry once

"Cheap is Expensive and Expensive is Cheap"

Remember these words when your having to buy two of everything instead of getting the right thing first

When a company offers an equal, if not superior, product for 1/3 the price, then the only ugly duck in the room is the one who paid too much.

Quality does not have to come at a dollar's quantity if done correctly.

pacrimguru
09-26-2010, 11:41 PM
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/haters-gonna-hate-15.jpg

NiteQwill
09-26-2010, 11:42 PM
I was wondering when you were gonna reply Pac.... ;)

pacrimguru
09-26-2010, 11:49 PM
LOL, i didn't have anything to say since it's all true. KAC unjustly punishes us californians, they are overpriced, and i can't help but love their gear anyway...

i found that haters pic on another forum that i was on earlier today so i thought i'd post it here. it's truly a great picture. LOL

technique
09-26-2010, 11:57 PM
The KAC is built with a specific use...

Its inconel (very strong) and aids the blast baffle in a QDSS-NT4. It gives the suppressor a longer life.
I'm not even sure if there is any inconel in a QDSS-NT4, if not, the TTT is really helping out with longevity.
The KAC TTT has to be made on inconel (making it expensive) all the ones made from other materials failed.

pacrimguru
09-26-2010, 11:58 PM
^ yea, what he said.

NiteQwill
09-27-2010, 12:00 AM
The KAC is built with a specific use...

Its inconel (very strong) and aids the blast baffle in a QDSS-NT4. It gives the suppressor a longer life.
I'm not even sure if there is any inconel in a QDSS-NT4, if not, the TTT is really helping out with longevity.
The KAC TTT has to be made on inconel (making it expensive) all the ones made from other materials failed.

No use for us smaller folks in this great state of California.

So stop rubbing it in, damn it. :cool2:

technique
09-27-2010, 12:12 AM
No use for us smaller folks in this great state of California.

So stop rubbing it in, damn it. :cool2:


It is an effective comp though, no one can argue that.
I simply stated what it was intended for but you can still benefit from the comp.

I saw that the BC guys were talking with Gemtech, this excites me for sure
as I'll soon be getting a titanium G5. However, knowing that KAC had several failures with materials other than inconel, it makes me wonder that if in fact BC and Gemtech do collaborate ( I SO hope they do!), they don't have to resort to using inconel ( I guess it's alright if they do) and have the price of the BC increase. But, Gemtechs G5s have an inconel blast baffle to start with so, maybe not.

tvfreakarms
09-27-2010, 1:40 AM
Why is this sooo expensive? Is it the type of metal they use?

Cyc Wid It
09-27-2010, 2:02 AM
In part yes. Also, because in general, they charge much more than the value of their product. Usually something having to do with "if the military is willing to pay X you should pay > X."

NSR500
09-27-2010, 3:01 AM
KAC has a crap attitude toward California. I wouldn't buy their gear even if it made me walk on water.

CHS
09-27-2010, 7:17 PM
Why is this sooo expensive? Is it the type of metal they use?

Did you read anything that Technique posted above you?

The Triple-Tap is made from Inconel.

Inconel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel

Is a Superalloy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superalloy

It's the sort of stuff they make turbine fans for jet engines out of. Yes, it's expensive.

glocklover
09-27-2010, 9:29 PM
Although thats too bad, I would still rather support a company like Battle Comp that not only makes cost effective products, but also is so willing to help us Californians. (much like KAC does NOT do)

It looks as if there website just went up a couple of days ago, good stuff, I'm interested in 1.5 for a 14.5 build. check it out:

http://174.36.133.117/

Good suggestion.

NSR500
09-27-2010, 11:04 PM
Did you read anything that Technique posted above you?

The Triple-Tap is made from Inconel.

Inconel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel

Is a Superalloy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superalloy

It's the sort of stuff they make turbine fans for jet engines out of. Yes, it's expensive.

+1

Not only is the material expensive, but the manufacturing process as well.

1811
09-28-2010, 4:32 AM
...you guys and gals forgot about the Chris COSTA endorsement...

CHS
09-28-2010, 8:01 AM
...you guys and gals forgot about the Chris COSTA endorsement...

Chris Costa also runs an SBR suppressed.

But hey, copying someone doesn't typically have any thought to it :)

Cyc Wid It
09-29-2010, 2:20 AM
http://www.silencertests.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=542582&sid=a0bd3797fba6173cb10948fc17422476#p542582

wow... um, yeah, look at the post with the guy getting the KAC tattoo

MissionMTMan
09-29-2010, 7:55 AM
Yep, if you have the cash, KAC is hard to beat.