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OCArmory
09-23-2010, 9:37 AM
OK so I have been doing some thinking. Scary I know but roll with me here. There is another post where a gentleman wants to single shot glocks and such. Would the single shot magazine need to be locked in place or is the magazine release enough. Keeping in mind that the pistol has no assault weapon features. So it doesn't need to be a fixed magazine. If he didn't have to come up with magazine locks for them that would save a lot of effort.
Mike

BONECUTTER
09-23-2010, 10:17 AM
Well PC12133 says:
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

I don't see any clarification on what a single shot pistol is. To me a mag lock seals the single shot part. Without it it seems like a normal semi auto with a disfunctional mag. Same with them shipping it without a mag at all.

If a mag lock is to hard I would look at some other method. Remove Spring/Extractor or something else to show the gun would not cycle the next round.

foxtrotuniformlima
09-23-2010, 10:36 AM
The general opinion here is similar to the "tool" requirement for mag removal on rifles.

The single shot sled should require a tool to remove it. The easiest way on a 1911 pattern pistol is a mag release that is flush or slightly below the frame as to make it impossible to drop the sled w/o using a tool.

Perhaps a similar approach on a Glock would work?

Table Rock Arms
09-23-2010, 11:07 AM
I am the guy who was inquiring about the transfers. It should not be to difficult to make a single shot magazine that could be fixed in place. What I am trying to do it make them as easy as possible to take down so that the average guy could buy the gun, release the magazine with a tool, strip it down and swap the barrel out and then send it back to me. The only way to make it cost effective is to use the barrels and magazines multiple times. I know that it would be pretty easy to use a special mag release that is recessed so you could not manipulate it with your fingers, then the customer would just replace the mag release. However I have a couple of ideas that should make it even easier than that. We will see. Also, cost of aluminum to machine the magazine would be almost nothing. Just requires time.

Ryan

ke6guj
09-23-2010, 12:56 PM
OK so I have been doing some thinking. Scary I know but roll with me here. There is another post where a gentleman wants to single shot glocks and such. Would the single shot magazine need to be locked in place or is the magazine release enough. Keeping in mind that the pistol has no assault weapon features. So it doesn't need to be a fixed magazine. If he didn't have to come up with magazine locks for them that would save a lot of effort.
MikeI would opine that it should be mag-locked.

Otherwise, if just installing a zero-round SLED into a Glock made it a single-shot pistol, then what would be the difference in just installing a SLED into a fully-featured OLL (without a mag-lock) and selling it as a "non-semi auto" rifle?

Capt. Speirs
09-23-2010, 2:10 PM
When the DOJ Agents were here, they were trying desperatly to remove the magazines (sleds) from our single shot pistols without a tool. Maybe because they were AW (AK type and AR), I think it would need to be locked, IMO.

CAL.BAR
09-23-2010, 2:37 PM
I have conducted a computer search of all references in case and statutory law to PC 12133, and the term "single shot" is not defined or refined. However, I would also opine that the mag should at least be locked and would use the provisions of 12276 et seq (AW law) as my basis.

OCArmory
09-23-2010, 3:23 PM
The difference is that a Glock has no assault weapons features, therefore not inherently needing a fixed magazine. The exemption is for a pistol that has the capacity to hold one round. This gun just happens to be readily convertible to a semi automatic pistol. Actually as I read KE6GUJ's I understand his line of thinking. I actually think it would be legal but with the hysteria of the evil features probably indefensible. The single shot exemption however is an easier argument.
Mike

tenpercentfirearms
09-23-2010, 10:12 PM
I don't think it has to be fixed as long as the magazine never leaves the gun in the dealer's possession.

Additionally I bet it wouldn't be too hard to make a magazine that has a set screw in the bottom that when tightened, tensions against the inside of mag well and locks the magazine in place. Kind of like how a RRA 9mm mag block conversion kit works.

Cokebottle
09-23-2010, 10:25 PM
If he is doing this for roster exemption, be sure to remind him that single shot is only 1/3rd of the requirement.

Also must have a barrel longer than 6" and an OAL greater than 10.5"

Mstrty
09-23-2010, 11:05 PM
The single shot 1911 I saw had a 12" barrel with out any feed ramp. And NO magazine. The magazine well was sealed off with a plate that had 2 ears that rest-ed over the bottom grip screws under the grip. Much like the wilson bolt-on magwell except this one was sealed off(no hole for magazine). Old magazine release was removed and replace with rubber plugs. Seamed easy enough for any do it yourselver could do. I guess there is no shortage of 1911 sales or this would be more common.

Table Rock Arms
09-24-2010, 8:26 AM
If he is doing this for roster exemption, be sure to remind him that single shot is only 1/3rd of the requirement.

Also must have a barrel longer than 6" and an OAL greater than 10.5"

I'm working on the barrels now.

Mstrty
09-24-2010, 12:38 PM
All I need is an out of state FFL willing to accept my 1911 of choice, manufacture it to a single shot (for my marksman bullseye fetish) and ship it to my FFL in town. Then be willing to buy back gun parts If find them to be cumbersome and awkward, at a fair price;)

Table Rock Arms
09-24-2010, 2:40 PM
All I need is an out of state FFL willing to accept my 1911 of choice, manufacture it to a single shot (for my marksman bullseye fetish) and ship it to my FFL in town. Then be willing to buy back gun parts If find them to be cumbersome and awkward, at a fair price;)

This is what I will be doing. As long as your FFL would do the transfer it should be easy. I have seen 1911 barrels that are 16 inches long. Just have to cut it down to a reasonable size that is still long enough to meet requirements then make a single shot magazine that can be fixed. I plan on getting an assortment of barrels for various guns. I am starting now and collecting them, but it wont be over night because I have a fair amount of money tied up in some other plans for my business. I will pm you when I get the 1911 barrel and magazine done.

Ryan

TKM
09-24-2010, 5:03 PM
Remove the mag release. Drill and tap one of these

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25221/catid/24/Crisis_Resolution_Training_Magazines_Glock_17__22

and secure it in place through the mag release hole with your choice of fastener.

Mstrty
09-26-2010, 8:21 AM
FFL's could also just keep everthing of value other than the gun itself. Extra mag,stock barrel, case, eveything.... just to make sure they get their goods back.

Table Rock Arms
09-26-2010, 9:31 AM
FFL's could also just keep everthing of value other than the gun itself. Extra mag,stock barrel, case, eveything.... just to make sure they get their goods back.

Either this or charge a deposit. I went into a gun store in SoCal a while back and asked them about doing these transfers. They told me that I should make the barrels and magazines not so nice and don't send the original barrel and magazines until I get my parts back because if I don't do that then somebody is gonna keep my parts for sure.

Ryan

MustangGreg66
09-27-2010, 2:39 PM
This would be great! I've been lusting after a STI 2011 style pistol for competition but havn't been able to find a frame to build up... I guess with this type of setup I'd have to buy a complete gun and then have a out of state gunsmith/ffl install a longer barrel and seal the magwell... sounds very doable if we can get the players together