Does Anyone Have a Vulcan "Cali Legal" AR?

[oaklander]

I would be interested to know how Vulcan affixes the magazine, since they appear to be "approved by the CA Dept of Justice and come[. . .] with approval letter."

See:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213

I think an argument could be made that any OLL AR that is converted to cal-legal status in the same manner as the Vulcan would have to be legal.

Or have people already thought of that?

[shopkeep]

I would be interested to know how Vulcan affixes the magazine, since they appear to be "approved by the CA Dept of Justice and come[. . .] with approval letter."

See:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=213

I think an argument could be made that any OLL AR that is converted to cal-legal status in the same manner as the Vulcan would have to be legal.

Or have people already thought of that?

WRONG!

The DOJ has stated publically multiple times that the Vulcan V-15 "cali legal" rifle will now be considered an Assault Weapon when they are done changing the regulations. They have essentially reversed their decision and if they get their way with memo #2 you will have to surrender your rifle to law enforcement unless you have the gun smithing skills needed to dremal out the magazine and rebuild it into gripless configuration.

[PLINK]

There are some pics in these threads. Vulcan uses a blind roll pin and epoxy.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26035&highlight=vulcan

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=26135&highlight=vulcan

[guns_and_labs]

Does anyone still have a copy of the Vulcan DOJ letter that they sent? Please post or pm.

There was one posted here awhile back, but the attachment expired.

[shopkeep]

Does anyone still have a copy of the Vulcan DOJ letter that they sent? Please post or pm.

There was one posted here awhile back, but the attachment expired.

I believe Vulcan may keep a copy on its webpage at www.vulcanarmaments.com however you can disregard the letter. Even the glued mag vulcans are now in the same camp as pinned mag off-list lowers. The DOJ has publically stated that it will be reversing its decision on the Vulcan lowers and that glued mags will now be considered detachable magazines.

If you're looking to please the DOJ the only way you can accomplish this is by purchasing a FAB-10, the Bushmaster CARBON-15 sealed mag, or the welded mag rifles from GBsales. I have spoken to the DOJ about this and so have a multitude of other forum members, the _ONLY_ AR-15 reciever that can be sold in California with full DOJ blessings at this time is a welded one.

Yes I am aware this is total bullcrap. What kind of government agency says, "This is legal" and then changes its mind and says, "Oh wait a minute that's not legal you're a felon if you have one now!"

[blackrifle]

If they change the regulations, they have to allow existing owners to register. If they don't, I'm SURE that they're going to have another "Harrott vs..." case on their hands, which, they will SURELY lose.

[guns_and_labs]

If you're looking to please the DOJ the only way you can accomplish this is by purchasing a FAB-10, the Bushmaster CARBON-15 sealed mag, or the welded mag rifles from GBsales.

No, I want to keep a copy for any future discussion with a local LEO or the local DA. I already have a copy of the most excellent FAQ on this site and other tidbits, with the definition of "fixed" vs. "detachable" highlighted. If nothing else, it shows intent to comply with the law.

It is silly, I know. I figure that I can convert a Bushmaster CARBON-15 sealed mag faster with a drill and dremel than I can remove the Prince50 Level 3 or the Vulcan epoxy.

[oaklander]

WRONG!

The DOJ has stated publically multiple times that the Vulcan V-15 "cali legal" rifle will now be considered an Assault Weapon when they are done changing the regulations. They have essentially reversed their decision and if they get their way with memo #2 you will have to surrender your rifle to law enforcement unless you have the gun smithing skills needed to dremal out the magazine and rebuild it into gripless configuration.

Thank you for the information. I am an attorney licensed in California, and I would like to see what they said. Do you have URLs or PDFs that you can point me to?

[bwiese]

Thank you for the information. I am an attorney licensed in California, and I would like to see what they said. Do you have URLs or PDFs that you can point me to?

Shopkeep's being a bit dramatic but there is a bit of meat in his statement.

First, as I recall, there were bits & pieces of informal recent DOJ info that Vulcans might start being regarded as AWs if new AR and AK brands did, in fact, become listed. The question was whether these included the fixed-mag Vulcans or not.

However, if the concepts in the recent 5/9 DOJ memo were to acquire regulatory force (with consequent rejiggering of regulatory definitions), it could possibly also make the Vulcan, as sold and as approved - and depending on how things are written - an assault weapon by activity other than the end user's. Since these receivers were legally sold and legally possessed, their transition to AW status was done by DOJ fiat and not by end user/owner. Furthermore, these Vulcans had DOJ approval letters.

It appears that a 90 day registration period would have to open for any gun or receiver that transitions into AW status thru action separate from the owner (that is, by DOJ - though we may have to fight the DOJ to get to that).

Why? There is no provision in CA AW laws for mandatory surrender or seizure of lawfully-owned lawfully-acquired firearms that transition into AW status: in fact, AW law was specifically created to avoid seizure/surrender issues and allow guns to be retained if registered, since no one in legislature wanted to walk anywhere near confiscation issues.

[oaklander]

Since these receivers were legally sold and legally possessed, their transition to AW status was done by DOJ fiat and not by end user/owner. Furthermore, these Vulcans had DOJ approval letters.

It appears that a 90 day registration period would have to open for any gun or receiver that transitions into AW status thru action separate from the owner (that is, by DOJ - though we may have to fight the DOJ to get to that).


Thank you Bill. Would not this 90 day period also apply to *any* OLL, since it now appears that the DOJ, with their most recent memo, has "decided" that all OLLs are assault weapons as well?

I would be interested to help with any legal work on this issue. Bill, please PM me and I will give you my real contact info, if you are interested.

k

[bwiese]

Thank you Bill. Would not this 90 day period also apply to *any* OLL, since it now appears that the DOJ, with their most recent memo, has "decided" that all OLLs are assault weapons as well?

I would be interested to help with any legal work on this issue. Bill, please PM me and I will give you my real contact info, if you are interested.

Will PM you.

Broadly, it could well depend on how regulations/definitions are structured.

The memo did not say OLLs were assault weapons - in fact, it really did the oppossite. Bare OLLs that are not named as banned AWs are legal to acquire and possess and even use as long as not constructed into rifles that are described by PC 12276.1(a)(1,2,3).

If they change regulatory stuff so that existing _rifles_ become assault weapons, that's when the fun begins. There's the whole SKS issue involved too.

[guns_and_labs]

I believe Vulcan may keep a copy on its webpage at www.vulcanarmaments.com however you can disregard the letter. Even the glued mag vulcans are now in the same camp as pinned mag off-list lowers. The DOJ has publically stated that it will be reversing its decision on the Vulcan lowers and that glued mags will now be considered detachable magazines.

I did get the letter from Vulcan (it's www.vulcanarmament.com, by the way), but it's not much help. It is not identifiable as a letter about a Vulcan at all.

So, I guess I'm one of those that has what he thought was a legally purchased and owned rifle, that's now in some sort of regulatory limbo. Oaklander, taking any new clients, just in case?

[oaklander]

I did get the letter from Vulcan (it's www.vulcanarmament.com, by the way), but it's not much help. It is not identifiable as a letter about a Vulcan at all.

So, I guess I'm one of those that has what he thought was a legally purchased and owned rifle, that's now in some sort of regulatory limbo. Oaklander, taking any new clients, just in case?

Do you have a PDF of that letter? I would be interested to see what it says.

[PLINK]

I posted a copy of the Vulcan letter in this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34295

[oaklander]

Cool - thanks!

[bwiese]

The problem with this letter is that it really says nothing. There were no qualifying statements here in regard to using this receiver in combination with other parts/features.

Given that any stripped off-list receiver is legal to buy, sell and possess, this Vulcan letter is well-nigh useless.

[Unknownassailant]

So what your saying is the Vulcans receivers w/pinned mags got in here pretty much the same as OLL, (under or over the radar according to how you see it ) and thus will share a similar fate as to their legalities?

[bwiese]

So what your saying is the Vulcans receivers w/pinned mags got in here pretty much the same as OLL, (under or over the radar according to how you see it) and thus will share a similar fate as to their legalities?

In some senses yes.

There may be another letter about the Vulcan out on Calgunlaws.com that may be better than this one above.

I wish everyone would calm down about that DOJ memo. It really didn't say anything - it said they _will_ do something, and they spent some time making it sound intimidating.

[shopkeep]

Hey Bill if these fixed mag builds do transistion into AW status, how far built up would an off-list lower need to be to qualify for registration? Do you think they'll require parts kits and a fixed mag to be on them or will the DOJ simply let everyone register all their lowers because they were purchased with the intention of building a fixed mag rifle? Oh why oh why couldn't they just list and make it easy for all parties involved in this debacle?

[oaklander]

I agree with Bill. I'm not going to make myself crazy with speculation. I'm just going to shoot my gun and enjoy it.

:)

k

[bwiese]

Hey Bill if these fixed mag builds do transistion into AW status, how far built up would an off-list lower need to be to qualify for registration?

This is all supposition. But if they do change the regulatory defintions and you had a pistol gripped lower with something that did become regarded as a detachable magazine due to redefinition, that would become an AW by DOJ rejiggering. At this point I don't think the DOJ'll do a reg period unless forced to by court.

[steve_77]

i have a vulcan lower -- have not received any corespondence regardign this matter -- wats this all about. I did see a memo on doj site but - was just a memo and was non-binding -- did something else just happen?

[shopkeep]

This is all supposition. But if they do change the regulatory defintions and you had a pistol gripped lower with something that did become regarded as a detachable magazine due to redefinition, that would become an AW by DOJ rejiggering. At this point I don't think the DOJ'll do a reg period unless forced to by court.

Personally I still think they'll ultimately pull this memo and do NOTHING. But if they do go through with this memo they will likely face considerable legal resistance from members of the this forum, members of the public, the NRA, and other interest groups. I mention the Vulcan V-15 owners because these people will be TOTALLY screwed if they don't open a reg period. Even in stripped form the Vulcans aren't worth anything in the free states, but with a glued mag they are worthless for sure. Short of having a dremal and gun smithing skills Vulcan V-15 glued mag rifles will have to be surrendered to law enforcement forcing a de facto confiscation.

Also I couldn't find a gunsmith for 50 miles who could install a muzzle break on one of my uppers. How the heck is someone going to find one who can weld up all their lowers on fixed mag rifle builds? Anyone who was a gun smith with AR-15 gun smithing skills has left the state at this point except for a small handful who work for law enforcement agencies and the infamous GB Sales. Is the DOJ insisting that over 30,000 rifles be mailed to GB Sales and Evans?

I imagine if they do not open a registration period (which they say they won't and rifles will have to be modified) I imagine an injuction would have to be filed for. Hopefully this won't need to go in that direction.

[PLINK]

The problem with this letter is that it really says nothing. There were no qualifying statements here in regard to using this receiver in combination with other parts/features.

Given that any stripped off-list receiver is legal to buy, sell and possess, this Vulcan letter is well-nigh useless.

I agree. This is the letter Vulcan is handing out with their lowers. It does not even have a name (Vulcan) on it. This letter is not really much different than the Stag letter. The Stag letter at least has the name of the receiver on it and the wording is somewhat similar.

[MonsterMan]

Just go gripless and make sure you have none of the other "evil" features and you don't have to worry about welding up you lower. Also you can have a detatchable mag. That is what I am going to do.

MonsterMan