Take apart your upper and your lower while transporting them.

[Jicko]

Take apart your uppers and your lowers while transporting them.

So, *just* in case, you encountered an LEO who would like to take your property(rifle) in to try to determine if it is legal or not... he can *just* take the lower.... and at least you will still have your upper (as an upper only is not regarded as a firearm... so it is just a piece that anyone can legally own...)

Will it work this way? :confused: (or will they just take ANYTHING/EVERYTHING?)

[Blacktail 8541]

Interestig question. I hope one of our leo members will way in with an opinion.

[Stanze]

Does anyone excerise their 5th and 4th amendment rights anymore?

You don't have to answer any incriminating questions or consent to a search without a search warrant.

Unless, they are charging you and your attorney is present you can tell the LEO to politely pound sand.

Sheesh.

[xenophobe]

If they're going to confiscate something, saving your upper is the least of your concerns... and they'll most likely take that, because assembled or not, it is part of the weapon....

[Ten Rounder]

Any rifle or pistol may checked by ANY LEO to see if it is loaded. Here lies the rub, if he sees it he has the right to inspect it. Even if you have a CCW permit, the LEO has the right to inspect that too.

Keep it covered up, in a golf bag, gitaur, snow board case if you are really worried.

[xLusi0n]

If you deny a cop to a search, he can impound your car as evidence...and as for reason: its your word against his.

[HillBilly]

As recent posts have proven, the vast majority of LEO's here in CA dont know the law on this, or even care to learn it. They just subscribe to the "looks like an AR (or insert evil killing rifle here) to me" theory. I doubt many LEO's understand that an upper is NOT a firearm. They will take it, and you will never see it again. There are exceptions to this rule, and I am proud that some LEO's are enthusiasts like us, but not many, unfortunately.

[Jicko]

I have a big pelican case.... *sigh*....

Yes, I agreed that IF he is determined to TAKE it from me.... it is kind of BAD already....

But yet... this is a valid question... will he *just* take the lower, or is he allowed to take my upper too?

If they do try to file a case against me... a *lower* w/ fixed mag looks a LOT more innocent than my M4-clone with EOTech, DD rail, KAC front grip etc...

[HillBilly]

If you deny a cop to a search, he can impound your car as evidence...and as for reason: its your word against his.

Someone please verify this...if so, that means you in fact have NO rights at all. I hope this is not true.

[Jicko]

If you deny a cop to a search, he can impound your car as evidence...and as for reason: its your word against his.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/traffic_stop_scenario


If they *ask* you... "The only reason he's asking you is because he doesn't have enough evidence to search without your consent."

PS. NOT this topic again... plz....

[EBWhite]

I believe however according to case law, if a cop sees anything firearms related he can do a quick "frisk" of the car. He cannot do any searching around but he can just do a quick look. However, does a case that is a gun shaped one count as firearms related???

Or does it only apply to ammo, holsters, etc?

What about usgi ammo boxes?

[Jicko]

My pelican case is just a rectangular case.... Model 1750... just huge....

But I don't know HOW to answer him if he ask.... "what's inside that case?"....

I don't think "none of your business" is the right answer....

[TheMan]

My pelican case is just a rectangular case.... Model 1750... just huge....

But I don't know HOW to answer him if he ask.... "what's inside that case?"....

I don't think "none of your business" is the right answer....

"Foam" You are being 100% honest in saying that, as the Pelicans do have foam inside them. If you are feeling paranoid, keep a paperclip in there, and tell him you have "electronic test equipment" in it. I use paperclips all the time as test leads when I am too lazy to find a real test lead, so I would be telling the truth in calling that electronic test equipment.

[Stanze]

My pelican case is just a rectangular case.... Model 1750... just huge....

But I don't know HOW to answer him if he ask.... "what's inside that case?"....

I don't think "none of your business" is the right answer....

I wish to excerise my 5th amendment constitutional rights to that question and any question from this point. Thank you officer.:)

[bonjing]

what about the question, "Do you have any weapons in the car?"

[Jicko]

what about the question, "Do you have any weapons in the car?"

Sir, please define "weapons".

______________________________________

DOJ, please define "fixed magazine"..... :D

[gh429]

I believe however according to case law, if a cop sees anything firearms related he can do a quick "frisk" of the car. He cannot do any searching around but he can just do a quick look. However, does a case that is a gun shaped one count as firearms related???

Or does it only apply to ammo, holsters, etc?

What about usgi ammo boxes?

I believe according to California Supreme Court interpretation at this point (upon noticing firearm related items) the officer has reasonable suspicion (which funny enough is not PC) to search you and/or your vehicle for his safety. This is similar to Terry V Ohio (pat-down search for weapons). The scope of the search is really up to the officer, of course if they do find anything bad then the search would obviously be subject to judicial review...

[hoffmang]

The answer is that its a rifle in a locked case. If he says "Can I see it?" I think the answer is, "No thanks!" Remember to smile.

[HillBilly]

I have the pelican, and I actually think it would make a good guitar case. Yeah....guitar case;)

[m1aowner]

What about NRA, CRPA, and other firearm related decals? Would those be considered firearms related material, and lead to a lawful search?

[NRAhighpowershooter]

What about NRA, CRPA, and other firearm related decals? Would those be considered firearms related material, and lead to a lawful search?

This actually happened about 3 or 4 years ago at Chabot rifle range.. A gung-ho park range was waiting at the park exit (not the range exit) and was pulling over people that either had gun decals or was wearing cammo and searching their cars... this went of for about 2 hours and a call (not sure who made the call) went to the park headquarters and the ranger was pulled out of there REAL quick and from what I have heard, was re-assigned REAL fast.. not sure if he kept his job or if there was any legal action taken against him and/or EBRP.

[D.T. Rouland]

I wish to excerise my 5th amendment constitutional rights to that question and any question from this point. Thank you officer.:)

I'd hate to have to answer that way. Isn't the 5th against self incrimination, as in "I don't want to say because that would suggest I was doing something wrong."? I know replying any other way is going to make you look bad, catch 22 type situation.
In a rights video I've seen, it was basically suggested that you don't answer anything directly pertaining to why you got pulled over.

Cop: You have anything I should know about?
You (while in the car): Why did you pull me over, officer?
Cop:You were speeding.
You: Ah, ok. I'll sign that then.

And so on. It grated my nerves watching just because I know that in real life, any responses like that could very well lead to the cop being a jerk and giving you a lot of grief but it's still something I'd stick to.

Advice worth the paper it was printed on.

[artherd]

You have got to be kidding me.

If an illegal seizure is going to occur, it will probally encompas any and everything the thug (sorry, officer who is there for my protection) can get his hands on.

You will have bigger things to worry about than a $1k upper.

I'm not taking anything apart, and I'll spend $50k to see my $3k rifle again and see any idoit cop stupid enough to unlawfully nab my lawfully posessed personal property held personally liable Thank You Very Much(TM)(R).

[kick Z tail out]

If he feels that he needs to take your lower, he's going to take it all. Anything resembling a part of that firearm will be grabbed.

[adamsreeftank]

I suggest you only carry your lower. Bury your upper in your yard so they can't take it.

Or maybe you should carry your upper and bury your lower.

I'll have to think about that.



Or you could carry your lower in an evil looking gun case and carry your upper in a gym bag under some sweaty underwear. That might keep them from poking around.

[1911_sfca]

I wanted to respond to this thread but it's off-topic, so I responded in that forum.

Post here. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=300053)

[Creeping Incrementalism]

The answer is that its a rifle in a locked case. If he says "Can I see it?" I think the answer is, "No thanks!" Remember to smile.

Even though this was answered in the "continuation thread", I think it should be repeated here that you are specifically wrong. If you tell the officer that you have a firearm, he may check to see that it is unloaded.

[Bling Bling 2.0]

"Foam" You are being 100% honest in saying that, as the Pelicans do have foam inside them. If you are feeling paranoid, keep a paperclip in there, and tell him you have "electronic test equipment" in it. I use paperclips all the time as test leads when I am too lazy to find a real test lead, so I would be telling the truth in calling that electronic test equipment.

That is very clever! Good call!!

[wangankin]

I dont know about you guys but no matter how polite you tell a LEO that you do not consent to a search... it seems that you will end up in the squad car on some other random charges. You cant fight them.

[Jicko]

I dont know about you guys but no matter how polite you tell a LEO that you do not consent to a search... it seems that you will end up in the squad car on some other random charges. You cant fight them.


THIS IS NOT TRUE.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/traffic_stop_scenario


If they *ask* you... "The only reason he's asking you is because he doesn't have enough evidence to search without your consent."

PS. NOT this topic again... plz....


Or he *may* ask even if he got enough evidence/suspicion on you.... then when you do not "consent", he will do it anyways...

Yet... without your consent, he will "think twice" before proceeding.... since if he didn't find anything, you can always get back on him for "wrongful arrest" or 'violating your rights" later....

Yes, most of the time, the "wrongful arrest" may NOT get that cop in your particular case.... but one particular officer cannot keep on getting "wrongful arrest" complaints and lawsuits... and yet being able to walk the street without more supervision.