Is a muzzle brake(BM izzy brake) the same as a flash hider?

[FinweElensar]

I was looking at this http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4iz.asp . With the izzy brake permanently installed, the total length comes to 16". Can i run this upper gripless?

[socalguns]

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/fsor.htm

Conversely, "compensators" and "muzzle brakes" are not flash suppressors only if they do not reduce or redirect flash from the shooter's field of vision.

[EBWhite]

The problem with flash hiders and muzzle brakes are many cops do not know the difference. Getting stopped you might get canned on a potential AW if the cop does not know

[ohsmily]

Flash suppressors have an "open" front that is much larger than the diameter of the bullet. Muzzle brakes have an exit diameter that is appropriate for the exit size of the bullet and plus a bit more. The wide open exit on a flash suppressor allows hot gasses and unburnt powder to expand and cool in the large exit whereas the narrower exit on a muzzle brake (regardless of slots) still makes the gasses and unburnt powder to go straight out the end and make a BIG flash. Sometimes the ports on a muzzle brake and increase flash depending on the configuration of the porting.

[adamsreeftank]

It's understandable that you are confused.

So was the D.A. of Fresno County.

This is from a letter he wrote to the DOJ and the other DAs. Sorry I don't have a link, but I have the PDF. Send me a PM if you want a copy.

1261

[chris]

perfect example of writing a law to get press coverage and then toss it to the DOJ to figure it out and everyone guess what is legal and what is not.

stupid is as stupid does.

[pc_city]

I was looking at this http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4iz.asp . With the izzy brake permanently installed, the total length comes to 16". Can i run this upper gripless?
Looks like it serves as a brake and a flash suppressor.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/iz-102660-fh.asp

[ohsmily]

The device on the upper in the first post is just a brake.
Bushmaster ALSO makes an Izzy that is a BRAKE and a flash suppressor.
Notice the "bored out" open front with a large diameter and open chamber at the end of the barrel (where the device starts). That is the flash suppressor/brake

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/Images/iz-102660-fh.jpg
"It has been bored out to function as a flash suppressor, but also effectively, controls muzzle rise in rapid fire."

NOTE: BM makes BOTH an Izzy Brake AND an Izzy Flash suppressor (which also serves as a brake). Therefore, the "post-ban" upper in the first post has no evil features and has a brake, not a flash suppressor.

This is the Izzy BRAKE (they also make a threaded version)
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/Images/iiz-102660-prbf.jpg

[Mr331]

Bushmaster makes an Izzy flash hider and an Izzy brake/comp. The flash hider is hollowed out and the brake/comp is filled in solid except for the diameter of the inner barrel. I hope that makes scense.

Link for brake: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/iz-102660-prbf.asp

Link for Flash hider: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/brakes/iz-102660-fh.asp

You can't see the brake very well in the pic. I have seen one and it was not as hollow as the flash hider.

[adamsreeftank]

The Bushmaster link that FinweElensar has in the first post is for a "postban" upper that uses the Break, not the Supressor. Logically, you should be OK with the post ban upper and no pistol grip, but the DOJ has (perhaps intentionally) created a lot of confusion about what they would consider legal.

[ohsmily]

The Bushmaster link that FinweElensar has in the first post is for a "postban" upper that uses the Break, not the Supressor. Logically, you should be OK with the post ban upper and no pistol grip, but the DOJ has (perhaps intentionally) created a lot of confusion about what they would consider legal.

Yes, Bushmaster calls that upper "post ban" but NOT because the Izzy brake isn't also a flashhider, but because it is pinned and welded onto the upper and merely threaded on. During the federal AW ban, a threaded barrel on a rifle was an "evil feature" therefore uppers either had to have pinned on devices or just a straight tube with no threading.

The Izzy brake is also a flash hider. Thus, that upper has an "evil feature" on it.

[FinweElensar]

With all this uncertainty, I guess the safest bet would be to run a 16" or longer barrel with nothing at the end. How hard is it to remove the threaded flash hider on the RRAs and Stags?

[CWM4A1]

Yes, Bushmaster calls that upper "post ban" but NOT because the Izzy brake isn't also a flashhider, but because it is pinned and welded onto the upper and merely threaded on. During the federal AW ban, a threaded barrel on a rifle was an "evil feature" therefore uppers either had to have pinned on devices or just a straight tube with no threading.

The Izzy brake is also a flash hider. Thus, that upper has an "evil feature" on it.

I have to disagree. All of bushmaster barrel that have pin and weld are below 16" NFA requirement (14.5" or 11.5"), so it needs the pin + weld muzzle device to make total of 16" for it not to fall into SBR. If you look at BM website, you will find that all of the 16" and above barrel that's catagorize as "post ban" does not even have thread to accept any muzzle device. I remember back before Federal AWB sunset, BM does advertise the IZZY break to be BATF approved which means the IZZY break is NOT a flash hider. However, CA DOJ may have different definition on "flash Hider" from BATF's definition. It is true that back in the dark age of Federal AWB one can pin and weld a muzzle break to a barrel to get away from the threaded barrel counted as a point, but that's not why BM pin + weld their muzzle breaks.

I have a "Pre-Ban" 14.5" barrel from BM with a Phantom FH pin and weld to the barrel, again to satisfy the NFA rule. By your logic this barrel should be post ban, but it isn't.

[ohsmily]

I have to disagree. All of bushmaster barrel that have pin and weld are below 16" NFA requirement (14.5" or 11.5"), so it needs the pin + weld muzzle device to make total of 16" for it not to fall into SBR. If you look at BM website, you will find that all of the 16" and above barrel that's catagorize as "post ban" does not even have thread to accept any muzzle device. I remember back before Federal AWB sunset, BM does advertise the IZZY break to be BATF approved which means the IZZY break is NOT a flash hider. However, CA DOJ may have different definition on "flash Hider" from BATF's definition. It is true that back in the dark age of Federal AWB one can pin and weld a muzzle break to a barrel to get away from the threaded barrel counted as a point, but that's not why BM pin + weld their muzzle breaks.

I have a "Pre-Ban" 14.5" barrel from BM with a Phantom FH pin and weld to the barrel, again to satisfy the NFA rule. By your logic this barrel should be post ban, but it isn't.

First of all, it is a BRAKE, not a break.

Second, what you argue regarding BM's distinguishing between pre and post ban is correct. I made the argument to try and reconcile the fact that they call something with an IZZY brake on it "post-ban" when the IZZY Brake is CLEARLY a flash suppressor. HOWEVER, I just ran a search and BM makes BOTH an Izzy BRAKE and an Izzy Flash Hider (which is both a brake and flash suppressor).

So, if the upper is listed as post ban with an Izzy BRAKE, then you are good to go and it does not have any "evil" features.