PDA

View Full Version : How are out-of-state sales handled?


THT
09-19-2010, 4:40 PM
I have a Sig P220 that I may be selling to a CA resident. This handgun is part of my personal collection and I would be sending it to a CA FFL to be transfered. Is this considered a PPT?

jtmkinsd
09-19-2010, 4:58 PM
I have a Sig P220 that I may be selling to a CA resident. This handgun is part of my personal collection and I would be sending it to a CA FFL to be transfered. Is this considered a PPT?

No, it is a dealer transfer in CA. If it's your personal collection, you need only include a legible copy of your state ID with the shipment and some indication of who it's for is helpful but not mandatory. You do not need to obtain a firearm shipment verification number either.

PPT's in CA are between two CA residents only.

Also for information only, when shipping handguns into the state, the gun must be on the roster unless it is being sold to LEO, a C&R, single action revolver, or olympic exempt pistols. And, no high cap mags unless it's going to LEO. You can ship high cap mag "parts kits" (dissassembled mags) directly to individuals, they do not need to come with the gun.

dachan
09-19-2010, 5:58 PM
You do not need to obtain a firearm shipment verification number either.

That maybe incorrect, PC12072 (f)(1)(A):
Commencing July 1, 2008, a person who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may not deliver, sell, or transfer a firearm to a person in California who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code unless, prior to delivery, the person intending to deliver, sell, or transfer the firearm obtains a verification number via the Internet for the intended delivery, sale, or transfer, from the department.

If you are not the actual licensee for your company, then PC12072 (f)(1) doesn't apply to you. But if there is an 01 FFL in your name, you must get a CFLC approval before shipping a firearm to a CA dealer; no exemption in the PC for firearms from your "personal collection." Then again, the whole CFLC thing is a restriction against interstate commerce and shouldn't be constitutional. Also it's a state law governing out of state residents who are not in CA at the time of the required action, so probably unenforceable.

THT
09-19-2010, 6:07 PM
That maybe incorrect, PC12072 (f)(1)(A):


If you are not the actual licensee for your company, then PC12072 (f)(1) doesn't apply to you. But if there is an 01 FFL in your name, you must get a CFLC approval before shipping a firearm to a CA dealer; no exemption in the PC for firearms from your "personal collection." Then again, the whole CFLC thing is a restriction against interstate commerce and shouldn't be constitutional. Also it's a state law governing out of state residents who are not in CA at the time of the required action, so probably unenforceable.

Neither I nor my business hold an FFL (yet)

jtmkinsd
09-19-2010, 8:01 PM
Also it's a state law governing out of state residents who are not in CA at the time of the required action, so probably unenforceable.

This was my point...If the gun is not coming out of his bound book, he has no obligation, Federal or State, to act as a licensee and get an approval.

If he had an 01 it does not bind him to act as an 01 when disposing of his personal firearms, UNLESS, the gun is listed under the FFL's business name in the bound book.

dachan
09-19-2010, 9:19 PM
This was my point...If the gun is not coming out of his bound book, he has no obligation, Federal or State, to act as a licensee and get an approval.

If he had an 01 it does not bind him to act as an 01 when disposing of his personal firearms, UNLESS, the gun is listed under the FFL's business name in the bound book.

Although it's a moot point in this case since the OP is not a FFL, but I'd say you're wrong. With the way the PC is written, anyone with an 01 FFL with his/her name on it is required to get a CFLC approval for any firearm shipment, independent of whether it's coming from their bound book or not. Now, I don't know if it's enforceable or constitutional, but that's the way the law is written.

PC12072 (f)(1)(A)
Commencing July 1, 2008, a person who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may not deliver, sell, or transfer a firearm to a person in California who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code unless, prior to delivery, the person intending to deliver, sell, or transfer the firearm obtains a verification number via the Internet for the intended delivery, sale, or transfer, from the department.

jtmkinsd
09-20-2010, 10:00 AM
Although it's a moot point in this case since the OP is not a FFL, but I'd say you're wrong. With the way the PC is written, anyone with an 01 FFL with his/her name on it is required to get a CFLC approval for any firearm shipment, independent of whether it's coming from their bound book or not. Now, I don't know if it's enforceable or constitutional, but that's the way the law is written.

PC12072 (f)(1)(A)

I think you're reading something into the law that isn't there, but a call to DOJ wouldn't hurt.