The Official OFF-LIST List is HERE!

[xenophobe]

We've seen the Roberti-Roos '89 list. We've seen the Kasler list, but what we haven't seen yet is the California Legal OFF-LIST List!

Well...

HERE IT IS! (pdf updated to include AK Series!)
Currently not hosted anywhere...

AK-47 Series are also listed in post #12 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=298586&postcount=12) of this thread.

The California OFF-List Guide

AR-15 Series Weapons

ALEXANDER ARMS*
.50 BEOWOLF
6.5 GRENDEL

AMEETEC ARMS
WM-15

AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
ASA-10

ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS, INC.*
ARES-16

BARRETT*
M468

BUSHMASTER
CARBON 15
J-15
BAR-10

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII

CENTURY ARMS*
C-15

CMMG
MOD4-SA

COLT*
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
CARBINE

COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING
MR-15

DALPHON

DANIEL DEFENSE
DD-15

DOUBLESTAR
STAR-15

DPMS
SINGLE SHOT
LR-308
A-15

DSARMS
ZM4

ESSENTIAL ARMS
J-15-F

FRANKFORD ARSENAL
XM-177
FAR-15

FULTON ARMORY
FAR-15

GLOBAL TACTICAL
GT-AR15

GRENADIER PRECISION
M4 A3
M4 COMMANDO
M4 SOC

GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES
M-15 MATCH

HESSE ARMS
HAR-25

HIGH STANDARD
HSA-15

JP ENTERPRISES, INC.*
JP-15
CTR-02

LAR MANUFACTURING
GRIZZLY-15

LAUER CUSTOM WEAPONRY
LCW-15

LEITNER-WISE*

LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL*
DEFENDER 2000

LRB INDUSTRIES, LLC
M15SA

MEGA MACHINE SHOP
GATOR

MGI

NOVESKE
N4

PATRIOT ORDINANCE FACTORY
P-415
P-416

RATWORX
M-7

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

SABRE DEFENSE
X16/15A3
XR-15

SMITH AND WESSON*
M&P-15
M&P-15T

SOCOM MANUFACTURING
DIAMOND
BLACK DIAMOND

SPECIAL WEAPONS
AR47

SPIKE’S TACTICAL
ST15

STINGER ARMS

STAG ARMS
STAG-15
STAG-6.8

SUN DEVIL
SD15

SUPERIOR ARMS
S-15

TITUSVILLE ARMORY
TA-15

TROY INDUSTRIES INC.*
CQB-SPC

VULCAN ARMS
V-15
CAL1

WILSON TACTICAL LLC.
WT-15

ZM WEAPONS*
LR300

TOTAL RECORDS: 66 (114 including AK-47 Series Weapons)

*Stripped lowers not available without purchase of complete lower or rifle

Please note, many of these companies will NOT deal with Californians.

©2006 xenophobe

[shopkeep]

Now that they're not going to list on Cat 2 we may as well sticky this and get one the AK-47s, G3 clones, and FAL clones as well. Maybe even links to FFLs and manufacturers in there as well.

I'm getting a feeling that what the DOJ is up to will just be a features ban on our fixed mag methods. Following this regulation if they don't choose to open a registration period it will probably not be hard to walk into a court room with their letter that says the Vulcan and the FALs aren't AWs and discuss with a court how they reversed that opinion and declared them AWs.

[xenophobe]

I don't know enough about the AK or G3 clones to have compiled a list for each. If someone will do this, I'll add them to my PDF and give credit for the entire section, if someone wants to do that. I won't add credit for individual submission, it would be too tedious...

But I figured this list was necessary. Buy more receivers!!!

[Kevlarman]

What, no pictures of each model?
:D

[EBWhite]

You forgot the DPMS A-15

[markymark]

Not sure of the model #'s but receiver manufacturers and/or completed rifles include:

Ewbanks
EMAK 7.62 x 39

Global trades/Armory
AUSA

ITM
MK99

Robinson Armament
VEPR

Arsenal of Bulgaria
SA M-5
SA M-7

NoDak Spud / D.C. Industries
NDS

Firingline
MLS99

Vulcan Armament
V47

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I'm familiar with.

[Charliegone]

Not sure of the model #'s but receiver manufacturers and/or completed rifles include:

Ewbanks
MK99

Global trades/Armory
AUSA

ITM
MK99

Robinson Armament
VEPR

Arsenal of Bulgaria
SA M-5
SA M-7

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I'm familiar with.


The Ewbanks should read EMAK 7.62 x 39. You also forgot Firingline MLS99, Vulcan armament receivers and the DCI receivers.:D

[markymark]

The Ewbanks should read EMAK 7.62 x 39. You also forgot Firingline MLS99, Vulcan armament receivers and the DCI receivers.:D
Thanks. Edited my post.

[maschronic]

We've seen the Roberti-Roos '89 list. We've seen the Kasler list, but what we haven't seen yet is the California Legal OFF-LIST List!

Well...

HERE IT IS!

http://home.comcast.net/~bartelt1508/OLL-LIST.pdf


The AR-15 OFF-List Guide

AR Series Weapons

ALEXANDER ARMS
.50 BEOWOLF
6.5 GRENDEL

AMEETECH ARMS
WM-15

AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
ASA-10

ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS, INC.
ARES-16

BARRETT
M468

BUSHMASTER
CARBON 15
J-15
BAR-10

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII

CENTURY ARMS
C-15

CMMG
MOD4-SA

COLT
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
CARBINE

COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING
MR-15

DALPHON

DOUBLESTAR
STAR-15

DPMS
SINGLE SHOT
LR-308
A-15

DSARMS
ZM4

ESSENTIAL ARMS
J-15-F

FRANKFORD ARSENAL
MODEL XM-177
FAR-15

FULTON ARMORY
FAR-15

GLOBAL TACTICAL
GT-AR15

GRENADIER PRECISION
M4 A3
M4 COMMANDO
M4 SOC

GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES
M-15 MATCH

HESSE ARMS
HAR-25

HIGH STANDARD
HSA-15

JP ENTERPRISES, INC.
JP-15
CTR-02

LAR MANUFACTURING
GRIZZLY-15

LAUER CUSTOM WEAPONRY
LCW-15

LEITNER-WISE

LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL
DEFENDER 2000

LRB INDUSTRIES, LLC
M15SA

MEGA MACHINE SHOP
GATOR

MGI

NOVESKE
N4

PATRIOT ORDINANCE FACTORY
P-415
P-416

RATWORX
M-7

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

SABRE DEFENSE
X16/15A3
XR-15

SMITH AND WESSON
M&P-15
M&P-15T

SOCOM MANUFACTURING
DIAMOND
BLACK DIAMOND

SPECIAL WEAPONS
AR47

SPIKE’S TACTICAL
ST15

STINGER ARMS

STAG ARMS
STAG-15
STAG-6.8

SUN DEVIL
SD15

SUPERIOR ARMS
S-15

TITUSVILLE ARMORY
TA-15

TROY INDUSTRIES INC.
CQB-SPC

VULCAN ARMS
V-15

WILSON TACTICAL LLC.
WT-15

ZM WEAPONS
LR300

TOTAL RECORDS: 64

©2006 XENOPHOBE. THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED IN ORIGINAL, UNMODIFIED FORM ONLY. OLL-LIST.PDF[/size]


+1 xenophobe

awesome list!! way to go!!

[DV8]

You forgot pics of the individual receivers for easier identification by LEOs and the general public...:)

[1911_Mitch]

Looks like we need an:

Calguns Off-List Lower Identification Guide (COLLIG)

:D

[69Mach1]

OFFLIST AK47 TYPE RIFLES

ARMORY USA
SSR-85B
SSR-85C
SSR-85-C2

ARSENAL
SA
SAS

DCI
NDS1
NDS2
NDS3
NDS4
NDS5
NDS7
NDS8
NDS9
NDS65
NDSY556
NDSM92

EWBANKS
EMAKM 7.62X39

EUROPEAN AMERICAN ARMORY (EAA-IMPORTER)
SAIGA

FIRING LINE
MLS99

GLOBAL TRADES
AUSA

HUNGARIAN (KBI-IMPORTER)
FEG SA-85M
FEG SA-2000

ITM
MK99

IZHMASH RUSSIAN SVD AND TIGER
MANY IMPORTERS

KREBS
KTR 03S
KTR 035
KTR 03V

MAADI
RPM
RML

NORINCO
BWK-92
NDM-86
MAK 91

OHIO ORDNANCE WORKS
AK47
MK99

OHIO RAPID FIRE
M76 (Mitchell M76 8mm clone)

ROBINSON ARMAMENT (IMPORTER)
MOLOT (MANUFACTURER)
VEPR
VEPR II
VEPR K
SUPER VEPR

ROMANIAN AK's
WASR10
WASR2
WASR3
WASR22
AKT-98
RPKT-98
SAR1
SAR2
SAR3
SSG-97
SSG-2000
CUR2
CUR MKII
PSL FPK DRAGUNOV
SA/Cugir (CAI) AES-10
SA/Cugir (CAI) AES-10B

RUSSIAN AMERICAN ARMORY (RAA-IMPORTER)
SAIGA

VECTOR ARMS
AMD
AK47

VULCAN ARMAMENT
V47-200.2G
V47-200G
V47-210
V47-210.2
V47-210.2G
V47-210G


If you have anything to add, PM me and I'll list it.

[DrjonesUSA]

What is the purpose of these lists?

[markymark]

What is the purpose of these lists?
To give people a one stop reference as to which receivers/rifles are legal to purchase.

[Beatone]

Wow! Someones going to need a BIG safe to collect all of that. :eek: Some nice stuff in there.

[DrjonesUSA]

Mmhmm....and I saw in another thread or two that we "now officially know that the DOJ is not going to list."


How exactly do we know that?

[thisismyboomstick]

OFFLIST AK47 TYPE RIFLES

Does anyone know what's marked on a Global trades receiver?

Bottom (front of magwell):
armory USA
Houston,Tx

Bolt Handle side below trunion rivets:
MOD AUSA
SER# AA XXXX
CAL 762X39

[artherd]

Man I still twitched a little reading that Xeno :D

[xenophobe]

69Mach1, excellent compilation!!! :eek:

Man I still twitched a little reading that Xeno :D

haha! Yeah, I was twiching after writing that! lmao

[Chaingun]

Since PWA (all) is an incorrect listing, we should piss off DOJ by importing these:D

[mblat]

What is the purpose of these lists?


I would say outside of slapping DOJ - none..... It is quite useless, but feels good...:p

[adamsreeftank]

I would say outside of slapping DOJ - none..... It is quite useless, but feels good...:p

I disagree.

I think Xeno has the best intentions and is just trying to help the DOJ do their job. You know, just kind of speeding along the process a bit and making sure they don't leave anything off the list.

[WokMaster1]

I disagree.

I think Xeno has the best intentions and is just trying to help the DOJ do their job. You know, just kind of speeding along the process a bit and making sure they don't leave anything off the list.

Sometimes I wonder if DOJ has an internal forum. If they did, I can see the hysteria right now; they listed! they listed! Their list is out! (see our May 9 reaction)

Xeno, what are the chances of writing a "memo" (remember not to sign it either):D

As usual, fantastic job.

[xenophobe]

Well, they stated that they weren't going to list, so it's only appropriate for us to know exactly what we CAN buy. No more "is this legal, is that legal"... well this list is for US.

(...and if it makes the person who was responsible for building a list at DOJ look bad, good for us. And if you hadn't noticed, I'm mocking the Kasler list look and feel :p )

Oh, and it's kind of neat... over 113 off list receivers are available to us! ;)

[adamsreeftank]

(...and if it makes the person who was responsible for building a list at DOJ look bad, good for us. And if you hadn't noticed, I'm mocking the Kasler list look and feel :p )



You should add some entries like:

Doublestar
(All)

Stag Arms
(All)

...

Great work.

[thedrickel]

IMBEL
FAL
L1A1

DSA
FAL/SA58
L1A1

Century
FAL
L1A1

Entreprise
FAL
L1A1

DCI/NDS
FAL
L1A1

WAC
FAL

Hesse
FAL

And there are probably more that I don't know about, maybe some Argentine receivers? I'm just praying DCI gets some ready before the list actually does come out or I'll be scrambling for some DSAs I guess. Maybe even Entreprise in a pinch.

[69Mach1]

IMBEL
And there are probably more that I don't know about, maybe some Argentine receivers? I'm just praying DCI gets some ready before the list actually does come out or I'll be scrambling for some DSAs I guess. Maybe even Entreprise in a pinch.


There's no list to be updated for the FAL or for any other semi-auto rifle out there that's not an AR or AK type rifle. So take your time.

[69Mach1]

Wow. Over 1000 views already.
Great work on the list Xenophobe.

[EBWhite]

Also, you forgot Tom Sawyer Mfg for the AR list.

[xenophobe]

I haven't decided whether to include non AR or AK Series rifles, because no other type of rifle (FAL, G3, M96, etc...) is considered a 'series' in California, and for the DOJ to ban them, they will need to go through a lengthy and time consuming court add-on, as opposed to AR and AKs which just need to be promulgated through normal regulatory channels.


Also, you forgot Tom Sawyer Mfg for the AR list.

Does he even offer his own brand of receiver? I thought all he did was engrave other receivers...

[EBWhite]

No he will produce a receiver with his name on it, however, you get to make the model...he is the maker though...

[Ford8N]

Nodak hasn't made the NDS-1 or NDS-2 yet.

[Mr331]

DPMS? Anyone brave enough to DROS those yet?

[Cobrarlc]

If they ever decide to list, all the work has been done for them with the exception of photos.

[thedrickel]

There's no list to be updated for the FAL or for any other semi-auto rifle out there that's not an AR or AK type rifle. So take your time.

Yeah, I know FALs aren't officialy "list-worthy" but I'm pretty sure by now they're coming after all the centerfire self-loading rifles out there, and FALs gotta be the next domino. At least, that's what this detachable/capacity to accept BS indicates to me.

[69Mach1]

Nodak hasn't made the NDS-1 or NDS-2 yet.

The NDS-2 is ready for heat-treat and should be ready for shippment shortly afterwards. I suspect the NDS-1 will follow right after. They are already taking orders for the NDS-2 receivers.

[DrjonesUSA]

If they ever decide to list, all the work has been done for them with the exception of photos.



Exactly what I was thinking.

[TheMan]

Yeah, I know FALs aren't officialy "list-worthy" but I'm pretty sure by now they're coming after all the centerfire self-loading rifles out there, and FALs gotta be the next domino. At least, that's what this detachable/capacity to accept BS indicates to me.

But at that point, they wouldn't be listed by make/model. The whole idea behind the detachable BS is that they DON'T want to have to add new stuff to the list.

[WeThePeople]

Did someone list Cobb MCR?

[knight_dive]

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
xenophobe[/size][/QUOTE]

Are you sure about the Cav Arms Mk II since the pg is integral to the molding? If anyone has dros'ed one let me know, and please let me know where you can get a Cav Arms MKII receiver with a fixed mag. These are incredible recievers. They're now marketed through Eagle Arms (div. of Armalite) as the Poly-15 also.

[bwiese]

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
xenophobe[/size]

Are you sure about the Cav Arms Mk II since the pg is integral to the molding? If anyone has dros'ed one let me know, and please let me know where you can get a Cav Arms MKII receiver with a fixed mag. These are incredible recievers. They're now marketed through Eagle Arms (div. of Armalite) as the Poly-15 also.[/QUOTE]


Run, don't walk, from a Cav Arms receiver or any similar receiver where you have an integral nonremovable pistol grip.

You could never work on /repair your fixed mag if you had one: the moment your remove the fixed CCR 978.20-compliant nondetachable mag you have a receiver with an open magwell and a pistol grip - a no-no.

[xenophobe]

With the Cavalry Arms, you would need to find someone out of state who is willing to permanently attach a 10 round magazine. I generally wouldn't suggest permanent modifications, but in this case, I think it would warrant it. i.e. epoxy the mag in, use a mag lock kit and spot weld it, blind pin, or something else.

And I agree, it's something you should probably stay away from...

[chunger]

Does anyone have the complete collector's set?

[xenophobe]

haha... wow. That would be some collection!

Just to have all of the offlist ARs would be a huge undertaking!

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Buddy, could you pleaes remove "Official" for the title of this thread--for a second I thought the DOJ reversed itself again and decided to list.

[kfitchne]

I'm still waiting to see

Guns
(All)

[jojojones]

Vulcan makes a CAL1 model reciever

jojo

[DV8]

I'm still waiting to see

Guns
(All)

If we're not careful that may soon be a reality. Not very amusing if you stop and think about it. :(

[PIRATE14]

This list was probably a huge undertaking and took years to compile and the expense was astronomical.......just think of the tax payers money that would need to be spent...........blah blah...........

Much too tough a job for the DOJ FIREARMS Division to tackle............

[Chaingun]

I'm still waiting to see

Guns
(All)

How many times do we have to go over this, Harrott requires Make/Model.:D

[ghettoshecky]

dude did you know how much this got me excited at first thinking it was an official listing of off-list lowers...:(

[Charliegone]

This list was probably a huge undertaking and took years to compile and the expense was astronomical.......just think of the tax payers money that would need to be spent...........blah blah...........

Much too tough a job for the DOJ FIREARMS Division to tackle............


LOL.....haha..ok is that enough?:D

[shopkeep]

AMAZING isn't it?

Not only did calguns.net show the DOJ what the law really was and make them follow it, but we were also able to come up with a list as well!

Just think of all the tax dollars that could be saved if they shut down the DOJ Firearms Division and let us do the work for them :)!

[Stanze]

Bump! Great thread!:) Should be a sticky!

[lh2soda]

"Open mag wells are a beautiful thing."


open mag well or jesseca alba opening her legs? if you had to choose and if DoJ will make it happen!?!?!

[Stanze]

"Open mag wells are a beautiful thing."


open mag well or jesseca alba opening her legs? if you had to choose and if DoJ will make it happen!?!?!

Like I'd need the DOJ's stinkin' permission to make love to a beautiful woman.:rolleyes:

"Jessica Alba Fan Club: One member and growing."

[tacticalcity]

I didn't see Stoner Rifle on the list. They are not on the banned list, and there are a few of them floating around. So why not add them?

Also, I know the current DOJ list is not Harrott compliant when it says "DPMS Panther All" but isn't a little risky to get a lower made by DPMS?

How are the DPMS Lower Receivers you listed considered "off-list"? I ask because I would love to get a .308 lower, but as far as I can tell they are all banned.

Do you know of any other non-banned .308 AR lowers? Note: Eagle Arms is considered Armalite and hence banned just incase anyone didn't already know that.

Oh, and I would definately pick Jessica Alba over my AR...in answer to the later question.

[bwiese]

Also, I know the current DOJ list is not Harrott compliant when it says "DPMS Panther All" but isn't a little risky to get a lower made by DPMS?

How are the DPMS Lower Receivers you listed considered "off-list"? I ask because I would love to get a .308 lower, but as far as I can tell they are all banned.


I'd not risk a DPMS Panther. That's a toss-up. Some older DPMS lowers do not have 'Panther' marking, and those are OK (but, IIRC, they may be cast?? )

[ArmedBear]

an official listing of off-list lowers

Uh... Hmmm....:D

[anotherone]

I would have never guessed there were so many off-list AK-47s. I love how some of them are even named "AK-47" too :D! It just helps further show the confusion of the ban when the ban says "AK-47 series rifles are banned" and then there are multiple rifles clearly named "AK-47" but because they are not on the roster they are not AK-47s by law. Yeah... most people could understand that :rolleyes: !

[xenophobe]

I didn't see Stoner Rifle on the list. They are not on the banned list, and there are a few of them floating around. So why not add them?

Stoner Rifle? As in Knight's Armament Corporation? They are on the banned list. KAC SR-15 and SR-25 are on the Kasler list in CCR 979.11.


How are the DPMS Lower Receivers you listed considered "off-list"? I ask because I would love to get a .308 lower, but as far as I can tell they are all banned.

Those are pre-Panther marked receivers from what I was told. I have not seen an example to verify.


Do you know of any other non-banned .308 AR lowers? Note: Eagle Arms is considered Armalite and hence banned just incase anyone didn't already know that.

The Eagle Arms that are on this off-list are early ones before Armalite bought the company.

[tacticalcity]

Good to know. Thank you. I am surprised to learn the Stoner Rifles are banned. I'll have my buddy check his receiver to confirm they match the models listed before we run to the range again.

Do you by chance know of any current production "off-list" .308 AR style lowers? Definately want one to complete my collection.

My goal here is to build a nice SPR. I like the idea of it being an AR type. It's the last rifle I need to build complete my idea of an ideal collection. Of course, I'll buy more for the hell of it.

I think I hear crickets...no one knows of a CA legal .308 lower for the AR type rifle? That sucks!

[69Mach1]

Now that a list update is not possible from the DOJ, I've edited the AK list to include:

NDS65
NDSY556
NDSM92
EAA Saiga
RAA Saiga
Maadi RPM
SSG-2000
AKT-98
RPKT-98
Ohio Rapid Fire M76

The Off Listed AK list starts on post #12. The Maddi is unconfirmed if that is the only marking. If it is, than it is Off Listed. The Ohio Rapid Fire M76 is a clone of the Mitchell Arms M76 (listed AW) in 8mm. I don't think it's an actual AK receiver, but the DOJ listed the Mitchell Arm M76, so the ORF receiver is included.

[xenophobe]

I will update the PDF list tonight.

[stator]

This is pushing it, but it shows the stupidity of banning guns by name (which the original authors, Robertti and Roos have come to realize years ago):

Eagle Arms M15E3S by Armalite.

I think they are up to M15E3S, maybe M15E4 by now.

[xenophobe]

This is pushing it, but it shows the stupidity of banning guns by name (which the original authors, Robertti and Roos have come to realize years ago):

Eagle Arms M15E3S by Armalite.

I think they are up to M15E3S, maybe M15E4 by now.


The original PDF needs to be seriously modified, because many of the firearms on Roberti-Roos may not actually be listed correctly, and those would need to be added as well.

Any help regarding the incorrect listing of Roberti-Roos and Kasler listed weapons would be appreciated and can be posted here or PM'd to me directly.

[grammaton76]

Heh, if you want an easier process than editting and re-publishing PDFs, you can set up a gunwiki article for it... it'd be more like editting a forum post.

Or, if you're looking for hosting for it, let me know and I'll set up a gunwiki article specifically to hold your PDF.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

It'd be great to see what each piece looks like, emblem wise.

Which one has the "legal" and "felony" selector switch? I recall it from over a month ago. It had a california seal on it and it cracked me up.

[whomper]

HK G3's are not listed. I found a Springfield G3 on gunbroker.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=63344496

[PonyFiveO]

Daewoo DR200 and DR300

:)

[grammaton76]

Gah, don't remind me of the Daewoo's... I had a 200 all lined up and the guy sold it. :(

Then he mis-dialed me later on asking if he could come over and "play with me" (he thought I was some friend of his who'd bought a PS3). I died laughing once I figured out who it was...

[SemiAutoSam]

Here ya go.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/DOJAR15-1.jpg


It'd be great to see what each piece looks like, emblem wise.

Which one has the "legal" and "felony" selector switch? I recall it from over a month ago. It had a california seal on it and it cracked me up.

[stator]

The original PDF needs to be seriously modified, because many of the firearms on Roberti-Roos may not actually be listed correctly, and those would need to be added as well.

Any help regarding the incorrect listing of Roberti-Roos and Kasler listed weapons would be appreciated and can be posted here or PM'd to me directly.


Okay, check it out and here are some:

Manufacturer: Eagle Arms
Model: M15A2
What is listed: Eagle Arms M15 (all)

Manufacturer: Bushmaster
Model: XM15-E2S
What is listed: Bushmaster XM15 (all)

Manufacturer: Olympic Arms
Model: M.F.R.
What is listed: Olympic Arms PCR


Also, ASA (American Spirit Arms) changed their model names shortly after the Kasler list. I talked to ASA at the Cow Palace after Harrott several years ago about their lowers being legal to sale in CA. They almost had the show organizers throw me out of there. I believe ASA has gone under, but their lowers were good unlike their complete rifles, uppers, and customer service.

ETA:

Manufacturer: American Spirit Arms
Model: ASA15
What is listed: American Spirit USA Model

[hoffmang]

Please make sure that the rifles DOJ was planning to add to the list, but didn't are on the "off" list.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/CADOJ-Listing_Memo-2005-12-20.pdf
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/CADOJ-Listing_Memo-2006-02-01.pdf

-Gene

[PonyFiveO]

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/CADOJ-Listing_Memo-2006-02-01.pdf

-Gene

I just realized that the DOJ basicaly states that the EAA Saiga is an offlist rifle in this memo. With such proof, why were we ever so paranoid over the EAA Saiga series rifles?

[fairfaxjim]

Please make sure that the rifles DOJ was planning to add to the list, but didn't are on the "off" list.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/CADOJ-Listing_Memo-2005-12-20.pdf
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/CADOJ-Listing_Memo-2006-02-01.pdf

-Gene
Those would be the Ferranto "Almost" List lists. So close,so close.

[hoffmang]

Saigas have always been much safer than people thought.

-Gene

[PonyFiveO]

Saigas have always been much safer than people thought.

-Gene

Darn it! I wish I realized that back when this memo came out. First order of business for 2007, Saiga!

[bbq_ribs]

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

--

Wait, I'm a little confused. The LAR-15 is available to us as an OLL? I can buy one from CWS, if I recall correctly.

Can I get one or am I lost?

[69Mach1]

ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15

--

Wait, I'm a little confused. The LAR-15 is available to us as an OLL? I can buy one from CWS, if I recall correctly.

Can I get one or am I lost?

Yes you can buy one. This is the Off Listed Lower list. Ones that the DOJ does not ban by name.

[Bolt2Bounce]

Is PWA on or off list? All I see being on the list is Colt AR-15, so where is the Listed Lowers. Post link that works and not PDF File. B2B

[ghost]

i think pwa is on list.one of my buddys has one on his registered aw.

[Bolt2Bounce]

I was wondering how PWA was on the list as they never made complete rifles as far as I know only receivers, so how could they be a AW, with out barrels stocks pistol grips etc. never could have been is the answer. If they are on the list it is because they were Pre Ban (R&R) ban, but as far as I know only colts were (R&R) listed. So where it the ON.:rolleyes: list? I can seem to find it...B2B

[scootergmc]

Have you tried looking at the list....? it clearly says: PWA- "all models."

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

[Paratus et Vigilans]

Okay, check it out and here are some:

Manufacturer: Bushmaster
Model: XM15-E2S
What is listed: Bushmaster XM15 (all)


Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks! :D

[6172crew]

Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks! :D

Only the Carbon models are ok here. Anything with a XM15 in the model # is no go.

White Oak makes twice the rifle anyhow.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

Only the Carbon models are ok here. Anything with a XM15 in the model # is no go.

White Oak makes twice the rifle anyhow.

Thanks, Crew! That's pretty much what I expected on the XM-15 issue, and from what I've read about White Oak's work I'm probably ahead of the game going with a WOA upper anyway.

This board is such an incredible resource! :)

[photog]

Don't forget the Sendra Corp. XM15E2.

[bwiese]

Paratus,

Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL?

The actual rifle is XM15-E2S, but the receiver will just be marked "Bushmaster XM-15", which is a listed/named gun on Kasler list.

The Roberti-Roos lists and Kasler lists are very inconsistent with gun makes and models. The people who drew up these lists sometimes invented nonexistent guns. I don't think we have any case law past Harrott about further naming issues, and what really is named or not.

BTW a case could be made that items like "Widget (all)" are nonspecific enough that it just moves the "series" uncertainty discussed in Harrott down one level. An argument could probably be proferred for the converse, as well - it's too grey, and there are so many well-nigh-identical lowers, why even bother?

We probably have the good, though on various Colt rifles for defense against named possession though. While Roberti-Roos list bans the Colt AR15, and the Kasler list lists the Colt Sporter, Match Target, etc., these are all essentially 'series' terms in and of themselves, as there are a variety of rifles under each of these colloquial terms. While the receivers have these marks, they are also referred to and ordered by their actual Colt model numbers - R6601, MT6700, Model 601, ST6000, etc. Ordering a Colt AR15 or a Sporter Target from a distributor will be met by a puzzled question: which one of a over a dozen types do you want? This is further complicated by the Evan's Gunsmithing fiasco where they may not be considering certain Colt models as listed because they're gonna consider them as "MT6000" instead of "Match Target".

Also many Colt Match Target receivers are marked something like "Colt Match Target HBar Competition Tactical Nuclear Ninja" or whatever, which is a distinction and a difference from banned "Match Target" (though 'Match Target (all)' is the Kasler-banned entity). But these are not models, they are marketing monikers, and the Colt catalog entry for model # will be MT6400 or MT6700.



Anyway if you want a Bushy DCM rifle, just take a Stag lower and stuff it with Bushy DCM parts and DCM upper. Problem solved.

[Dayton]

Awesome. Thanks everyone.

[five.five-six]

CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
xenophobe[/size]

Are you sure about the Cav Arms Mk II since the pg is integral to the molding? If anyone has dros'ed one let me know, and please let me know where you can get a Cav Arms MKII receiver with a fixed mag. These are incredible recievers. They're now marketed through Eagle Arms (div. of Armalite) as the Poly-15 also.

how about the eagle arms ar-10...or is that a grey area?

[Yankee Clipper]

Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks! :D
Your 'anal retentive nature' aside, very few if anyone at a match will check the maker label on the other guy's AR. I personally have never done that because the rifle itself is so ubiquitous. If, however, it’s a match rifle - and it shots well - you may very well be asked who made it.

[SemiAutoSam]

His Anal Retentive nature may keep him out of a court room and eventually Jail/Prison.

I would tend to be very careful and since that model is listed in Roberti-Roos and most likely Kasler as well.

Its a AW plain and simple

Your 'anal retentive nature' aside, very few if anyone at a match will check the maker label on the other guy's AR. I personally have never done that because the rifle itself is so ubiquitous. If, however, it’s a match rifle - and it shots well - you may very well be asked who made it.

[Yakman]

I'm late to the party, but how did the .50 Bouwolf get on there? Since it's a 50 cliber isn't therefor banned? Or am I missing somthing?

[hoffmang]

Only .50BMG was banned.

-Gene

[69Mach1]

Only rifles chambering 50 BMG are banned. That list refers to make and models (most) that are banned by name.

[Yakman]

Ah thanks for the clarification.

[AKman]

I didn't see the Calguns OLL (SB23 Series), POF 308 or Fulton FAR 308 on the list so I turned mine in to the local PD. They said it was a good thing I didn't get caught with these guns and that I did the right thing. They sure seemed happy.:confused:

[Tweak338]

I didn't see the Calguns OLL (SB23 Series), POF 308 or Fulton FAR 308 on the list so I turned mine in to the local PD. They said it was a good thing I didn't get caught with these guns and that I did the right thing. They sure seemed happy.:confused:

hopefully this is sarcasm..

Xeno is lazy and hasn't updated the list.

[AKman]

hopefully this is sarcasm..

Xeno is lazy and hasn't updated the list.

Yes it is. I noticed that there are a lot of OLLs that haven't made the list yet. I go by the BOF list of what I can't have. The only things I avoid are OLLs that are just too close to the BOF list like some of the RRA models.

[thmpr]

There is about 11 OLL not yet listed on this thread. Happy hunting.

[Godaminski]

Alright I could use some help on this one (new to CA gun rules). I've looked up every rule and regulation I could find, and just finished building a match AR with the following parts:

LAR Mfg/Gunsmoke Enterprises logo LAR-15 lower
RRA upper w/ Satern stainless barrel (crowned, no FH or compensator)
JP Match Trigger
10rd mag fixed w/Prince50

Can any of the law pros here let me know if I'm running a risk of having a legal problem with this rifle? :confused:

Thanks and Cheers,
Tom
Semper Paratus, Semper Vigilans

[uclaplinker]

Let me preface this by saying the ownership of any firearm is not without risk.

That being said, assuming the barrel is longer than 16" and the OAL is over 30", that configuration has no issues; you're GTG.

I'd suggest getting a Bullet Button over the standard Prince50. Dropping magazines with a tool for loading is much more convenient than top-loading.

You can also add a compensator, flash hider or anything else that are features, since you're building a fixed magazine rifle.

You should look over this thread to understand why it is legal. It might be of help should you have any interactions with someone who is skeptical.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818



Alright I could use some help on this one (new to CA gun rules). I've looked up every rule and regulation I could find, and just finished building a match AR with the following parts:

LAR Mfg/Gunsmoke Enterprises logo LAR-15 lower
RRA upper w/ Satern stainless barrel (crowned, no FH or compensator)
JP Match Trigger
10rd mag fixed w/Prince50

Can any of the law pros here let me know if I'm running a risk of having a legal problem with this rifle? :confused:

Thanks and Cheers,
Tom
Semper Paratus, Semper Vigilans

[packnrat]

ok fine and dandy listing whose recivers we can buy.:)

is there a store that stocks these lowers here in ca?:cool2:

seeing as how some of the dealers/manf, do not want to deal with any person or dealer here in ca.:TFH:

[ptoguy2002]

Really really good list, so I REALLY REALLY hate to say this (and you can call me paranoid), but now the bad guys have the complete list that they probably wouldn't have been able to generate themselves.

[69Mach1]

Umm, so what. They can't do anything with it anyway.

[fairfaxjim]

Really really good list, so I REALLY REALLY hate to say this (and you can call me paranoid), but now the bad guys have the complete list that they probably wouldn't have been able to generate themselves.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, the BAD GUYS are the one's who made the REAL LIST, the one that makes these the OFF LIST LOWERS. Without THE ON LIST, we don got no stinking OFF LIST!

[leelaw]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN! :eek:

[aileron]

HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN! :eek:

You should feel honored. :p

[Bowser]

Awesome, so I can order the ST-15 punisher OLL from 10% soon.

[packnrat]

ok so fine and dandy, there are a bunch of recivers on the good list we can buy, but is there a ffl in northern ca that will stock of even sell one? :confused:




.

[Hunter]

ok so fine and dandy, there are a bunch of recivers on the good list we can buy, but is there a ffl in northern ca that will stock of even sell one? :confused:
.

Have you bothered too look here? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63050

[xenophobe]

I would update the list... but what's the point.... anything that is not listed under Roberti-Roos or Kasler is fine as long as it's in a legal configuration. Besides... I haven't even tied my shoes yet today. :wacko:

[Hopi]

I would update the list... but what's the point.... anything that is not listed under Roberti-Roos or Kasler is fine as long as it's in a legal configuration.

Seriously, too many people need 'approval'......most of us were satisfied with the DOJ acknowledged Harrot case. That is all the 'approval' necessary to stay legal.

1. Find roster of listed AWs
2. Google ar-15 or ak-47 receivers
3. Scrub the two lists
4. Purchase legal lower not found on list from step #1
5. Study SB-23
6. Follow instructions
7. Build compliant rifle

[xenophobe]

Seriously, too many people need 'approval'......most of us were satisfied with the DOJ acknowledged Harrot case. That is all the 'approval' necessary to stay legal.

1. Find roster of listed AWs
2. Google ar-15 or ak-47 receivers
3. Scrub the two lists
4. Purchase legal lower not found on list from step #1
5. Study SB-23
6. Follow instructions
7. Build compliant rifle

Exactly, besides there are too many one-off's and new "manufacturers" popping up every minute that I can't possibly keep track of all the variants.

[Hopi]

Exactly, besides there are too many one-off's and new "manufacturers" popping up every minute that I can't possibly keep track of all the variants.

Too true. I like finding those little hidden gems.....there is even a lower built by a company that is titled with my last name.....that is my next OLL purchase, now if I can just decide what else i want to bundle on that DROS.....how sweet would it be to have " _________ Gunworks" (insert your last name here)....:D

[OnTargetShooter]

Hello Calgunners, I met someone from Burros the other day who spoke of this great website. And got me interested in CA legal ARs. :D
I've just read the OLL faq. And my understanding is that, if I could have these receivers sent from out of state dealer to local CA FFL. I can purchase them as long as they are shipped w/o evil features ? I'm interested in these items:

1. SMITH AND WESSON, M&P-15T
2. DPMS, LR-308
3. Robinson Armament, VEPR


Please let me know, since I've been dying to get one since I was in servies

[C.G.]

Hello Calgunners, I met someone from Burros the other day who spoke of this great website. And got me interested in CA legal ARs. :D
I've just read the OLL faq. And my understanding is that, if I could have these receivers sent from out of state dealer to local CA FFL. I can purchase them as long as they are shipped w/o evil features ? I'm interested in these items:

1. SMITH AND WESSON, M&P-15T
2. DPMS, LR-308
3. Robinson Armament, VEPR


Please let me know, since I've been dying to get one since I was in servies

DPMS LR-308 is a no go, it is listed. You would have to get a POF or a Fulton lower instead.

[thmpr]

If you want a DPMS brand AR lower, go with a Fulton lower and build it from there. Or the next best thing is the JP LR07 Rifle which is only sold as a complete rifle at this time.

[DIG]

DPMS LR-308 is a no go, it is listed. You would have to get a POF or a Fulton lower instead.

DPMS LR-308 is NOT listed. Not by make & model at least. The LR-308 was manufactured 2 years AFTER the list. However, it does read DPMS (all). That damn (all) is grey area that few would like to venture into. Especially not when there are other clearly legal options.

[Richie Caketown]

i didnt see it on the front , but is the Panther Lite 16 on the Off list ?

[uclaplinker]

DPMS + Panther = AW, so no.

For like the 300th time, can we get this thread stickied?

[Bagger]

Didnt see the Romanian SAR1 Ak on your list?


Not sure of the model #'s but receiver manufacturers and/or completed rifles include:

Ewbanks
EMAK 7.62 x 39

Global trades/Armory
AUSA

ITM
MK99

Robinson Armament
VEPR

Arsenal of Bulgaria
SA M-5
SA M-7

NoDak Spud / D.C. Industries
NDS

Firingline
MLS99

Vulcan Armament
V47

I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I'm familiar with.

[jojo760]

I can't seem to find Anvil Arms. Are their lowers listed or can we buy?

[azndmd]

Let's add Noveske N-6 to the list....:chris:

[uclaplinker]

I can't seem to find Anvil Arms. Are their lowers listed or can we buy?

This thread hasn't been updated in ages. It was meant as a tool, but the real answer lies in "is my lower listed?" If it's NOT listed then, by definition, it's an off-list lower.

Refer to this:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

[jamesob]

all dpms are panthers correct? dpms is on list i think

[MT1]

I don't know if it's been said elsewhere in this thread, but I think an "Official" list of what is legal is not only dangerous, but it is also buying into the mentality that having an official list of any kind is ok.

It's an OLL for a reason, lets not be like the anti's and start listing things.

[Technowizard]

DPMS + Panther = AW, so no.

Actually, DPMS + Panther = Name of manufacture, aka the Make... and nothing more. No specific model is listed as required by the Harrott Supreme Court Decision. The "all" that is used is not specific enough, as it would cause every firearm ever produced by DPMS to be considered an AW, even if they manufactured a bolt action single shot .22 cal!!!

My two cents... :cool2:

[T308WIN]

dude did you know how much this got me excited at first thinking it was an official listing of off-list lowers...:(


umm it is, isn't it?

:confused:

[Hopi]

umm it is, isn't it?

:confused:

Kind of. It is not the list that some folks were hoping for back in late 2005. This thread does indeed list available and legal receivers.

Welcome to the forum!!!

[Quake0]

Do not buy


VULCAN ARMS
V-15
CAL1

Biggest wast of money ever.

[trykp]

anyone know or have a list of the break down of brands to manufacturerss?

a while ago i saw a list of manufacturers with a bunch of brands under them.

Lewis Machine Tool, Continental Machine Tool, MMS, etc etc


let me know thanks

[Hopi]

anyone know or have a list of the break down of brands to manufacturerss?

a while ago i saw a list of manufacturers with a bunch of brands under them.

Lewis Machine Tool, Continental Machine Tool, MMS, etc etc


let me know thanks

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50947

[Hopi]

New off list lower...

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x266/k9-bob/YHM-125.jpg

[ColdSteel14]

Run, don't walk, from a Cav Arms receiver or any similar receiver where you have an integral nonremovable pistol grip.

You could never work on /repair your fixed mag if you had one: the moment your remove the fixed CCR 978.20-compliant nondetachable mag you have a receiver with an open magwell and a pistol grip - a no-no.

Are you sure? The lower receiver in itself is not a semi automatic firearm. At that point I would imagien it is juat classified as a longarm.

It is the upper which supplies the gas system that makes the OLL semi automatic.

Any insight?

[Hopi]

Are you sure? The lower receiver in itself is not a semi automatic firearm. At that point I would imagien it is juat classified as a longarm.

It is the upper which supplies the gas system that makes the OLL semi automatic.

Any insight?

That is an old post of Bill's. The consensus now is inline with your logic.

[maxplus]

The list looks great for AR15 how about AR10's?


Looking to buy and build...

[uclaplinker]

Again, why bother with an "off-list" list?

This was done at a time when there was a limited number of off and on-list lowers - where the ratio was about equal.

Now, the number of off-list lowers far exceeds the number on-list.

Use the Flow-chart to determine if your desired lower is off-list.

[NoSmoke]

Kaiser Defense KR5. KD is in San Diego.

[Ford8N]

Again, why bother with an "off-list" list?

This was done at a time when there was a limited number of off and on-list lowers - where the ratio was about equal.

Now, the number of off-list lowers far exceeds the number on-list.

Use the Flow-chart to determine if your desired lower is off-list.

Because it's kinda fun.

To add to 69Mach1's AK list:


DCI
NDS6

MAADI
RML

[JDay]

http://www.freewebs.com/cortlesteeze/pix/ThreadNecro.jpg

[commando]

I bought a CY6 SLR15 lower and I was told it is an off list lower. I don't see it on the list posted above. Does anyone know if this lower is off list? Once I build an off list lower AR-15 do I need to register it in anyway if I'm living in CA. Thank you so much.

[383green]

I bought a CY6 SLR15 lower and I was told it is an off list lower. I don't see it on the list posted above. Does anyone know if this lower is off list? Once I build an off list lower AR-15 do I need to register it in anyway if I'm living in CA. Thank you so much.

Argh! Will this thread never die?

If the gun is not on the list of banned makes and models, then it's off-list. The list of banned makes and models is included on the CA AW ID Flowchart:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

If the rifle is not an Assault Weapon, then it's just a plain old rifle, and it doesn't need to be registered.

[69Mach1]

God is this thread still going on? Wouldn't be cool if someone had all of the off list rifles on this list.

[DedEye]

Lock this thread with a final post that any lower not specifically marked by make and model on the Flowchart/ban list is definitively OFF LIST.

[69Mach1]

Nah, we need a "thread that never dies". All of the other forums have one.

[commando]

Well, it looks like the new guy to calguns (me) asked a stupid question... So when I look at the flow chart appendix I do not see any CY6 SLR15. Therefore it is not on the list... o.k., makes sense. sorry for the inconvenience but thank you for the help. On to another less played out thread... how bout those stealers...

[scr83jp]

Now that they're not going to list on Cat 2 we may as well sticky this and get one the AK-47s, G3 clones, and FAL clones as well. Maybe even links to FFLs and manufacturers in there as well.

I'm getting a feeling that what the DOJ is up to will just be a features ban on our fixed mag methods. Following this regulation if they don't choose to open a registration period it will probably not be hard to walk into a court room with their letter that says the Vulcan and the FALs aren't AWs and discuss with a court how they reversed that opinion and declared them AWs.I'm surprised these parts haven't been banned by the wanna be gov again .

[Spyder]

Whatdja pay for that SLR15? Didja get in on the group buy a while back?

Cause I did. And I bought eight of them. :D:D:D

[Jon-Anvil_Arms]

Gentlemen,

Anvil Arms LLC in Lakeland, FL. is an OLL manufacturer. We have been selling to California residents for quite some time now.

We even stock Bullet Buttons, Prince 50 Buttons and have ordered some Monster grips. We also have Pistol receivers and have the Bob Sled in stock to create the single shot variant you need.

How do we get added to your list?

Jon Kruger
President, Anvil Arms LLC
Lakeland, FL.
863-398-4460 (Voice)
863-984-9355 (Fax) – 863-669-0300 (Back-Up FAX)
Email: Jon@AnvilArms.com

www.AnvilArms.com (http://www.AnvilArms.com)

Lifetime NRA Member (http://www.nra.org/)

ARFCOM Industry Partner (http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=244)

RTKABA - 2A -> The Fight Has Just Begun http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=244&t=165402
“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
Founding Father of the United States, Original Signer of the Declaration of Independence; Benjamin Franklin, February, 1775

[69Mach1]

Gentlemen,

Anvil Arms LLC in Lakeland, FL. is an OLL manufacturer. We have been selling to California residents for quite some time now.

We even stock Bullet Buttons, Prince 50 Buttons and have ordered some Monster grips. We also have Pistol receivers and have the Bob Sled in stock to create the single shot variant you need.

How do we get added to your list?

Jon Kruger
President, Anvil Arms LLC
Lakeland, FL.
863-398-4460 (Voice)
863-984-9355 (Fax) – 863-669-0300 (Back-Up FAX)
Email: Jon@AnvilArms.com

www.AnvilArms.com (http://www.AnvilArms.com)

Lifetime NRA Member (http://www.nra.org/)

ARFCOM Industry Partner (http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=244)

RTKABA - 2A -> The Fight Has Just Begun http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=244&t=165402
“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
Founding Father of the United States, Original Signer of the Declaration of Independence; Benjamin Franklin, February, 1775

No need. Your lowers are not named on the CA DOJ's assault weapons list. They only have to comply with the features ban. If you're shipping directly to CA FFL's for transfer then thank you very much for your support.

[problemchild]

So if im reading this correctly I can buy an BAR-10 and install the bullet button and a 10 round magazine and Im calif legal?

Who would transfer this rifle into my name? My friend in AZ owns this rifle and will sell it to me if its legal.

[Jon-Anvil_Arms]

No need. Your lowers are not named on the CA DOJ's assault weapons list. They only have to comply with the features ban. If you're shipping directly to CA FFL's for transfer then thank you very much for your support.

Thanks for the reply! I guess I should have been more clear... I was wanting to get Anvil Arms added to the list on the fist post of this thread, your list of OLL suppliers.

Jon K.

[yellowfin]

^ Everyone I've shown loves the ar15.com receiver I got from Anvil a year and a half ago.

[Spyder]

That list is very outdated. Anvil arms is pretty well known as a good OLL by the folks that are buying them. I wouldn't worry about getting on the list. And on that note, I'm going to go check out your website and see what I can do about gettin g a pistol marked lower sent my way. =]

[Plisk]

Don't forget Roggio :)

[DDT]

So if im reading this correctly I can buy an BAR-10 and install the bullet button and a 10 round magazine and Im calif legal?

Who would transfer this rifle into my name? My friend in AZ owns this rifle and will sell it to me if its legal.

I'm a bit too lazy to look up the list right now but assuming the weapon is legal in CA with a BB you have two options.

Send it to a CA FFL with an AW permit and they can receive it and install the BB for you or even easier. Have you buddy install the BB before he sends it to your FFL. This way the FFL will not need an AW permit BUT some FFLs don't like OLLs. So check out and setup an OLL friendly FFL before you have you buddy send the weapon.

[SirGlockALott]

I agree

[SirGlockALott]

Yes I know thats true.

[SirGlockALott]

Cool.

[thmpr]

That's interesting how Anvil Arms will ship Pistol lowers but not Spike's Tactical. The funny part...their from the same state.

:D

[fire65]

That's interesting how Anvil Arms will ship Pistol lowers but not Spike's Tactical. The funny part...their from the same state.

:D

No Some companny have bigger pare of Gold Balls to give the honest peolpe of the state a lower to build to leagal specs and the others had there wives cut them off

[turinreza]

How are the DPMS Lower Receivers you listed considered "off-list"? I ask because I would love to get a .308 lower, but as far as I can tell they are all banned.

Fulton 308 lower is what to get... All the DPMS 308 uppers fit on the Fulton 308 lower

[californiaars4ever]

Ok I'm getting mixed answers from my question. So.. here it is. I have a DPMS LR 308 which is listed on the off list. So can I get it here from Illinois legally? Some say no because it say's panther...I first off can't remember if it says that. But then if it dose how is it on the list I'm confused. Can anyone clear this up for me? Or is there another option?

[Josh3239]

The Kasler List specifically mentions that all "DPMS Panthers" are illegal. Whether it says "LR 308" on it or not doesn't matter, this list isn't the Penal Code, the Kasler List is. If it says both "DPMS" and "Panther" on it, it is illegal. Definetly find out the exact make and model before bringing it in.

[Untamed1972]

Why doesn't CA just dump the list all together and just go with the "ban by feature" method. Seems like with all these companies making OLLs the companies on the ban list should be gettin' pissed because they are ban simply because of their brand name.

[californiaars4ever]

Can someone out there clairify something on the off list for me? I get Sooooo..many different responses from my question. The DPMS LR 308 IS listed on the off list. Yet... some say if it says panther you can't bring it into Cali otherwise it's ok, some say ALL DPMS ARE BANNED, some say if it's on the list it's ok......AHHHHHHH!!..(sigh)...so what is it???? Can anyone Please tell me what the answer is? I have one waiting back in Illinois waiting to grace the California sun...

[bohoki]

the dpms single shot is called the VRS
thats what used to made my 50 bmg
at the time there was 2 options the vrs and the fab-tech

[Josh3239]

Can someone out there clairify something on the off list for me? I get Sooooo..many different responses from my question. The DPMS LR 308 IS listed on the off list. Yet... some say if it says panther you can't bring it into Cali otherwise it's ok, some say ALL DPMS ARE BANNED, some say if it's on the list it's ok......AHHHHHHH!!..(sigh)...so what is it???? Can anyone Please tell me what the answer is? I have one waiting back in Illinois waiting to grace the California sun...

Ok I'll write it again:

The Kasler List specifically mentions that all "DPMS Panthers" are illegal. Whether it says "LR 308" on it or not doesn't matter, this list isn't the Penal Code, the Kasler List is. If it says both "DPMS" and "Panther" on it, it is illegal. I don't know how to make it more clear, anything that has the words "DPMS" and "Panther" written on it are clearly banned by Kasler.

Read the second page, Appendix B: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

[Beatone]

Ok I'll write it again:

The Kasler List specifically mentions that all "DPMS Panthers" are illegal. Whether it says "LR 308" on it or not doesn't matter, this list isn't the Penal Code, the Kasler List is. If it says both "DPMS" and "Panther" on it, it is illegal. I don't know how to make it more clear, anything that has the words "DPMS" and "Panther" written on it are clearly banned by Kasler.

Read the second page, Appendix B: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

I think that about sums it up. NO.

[uclaplinker]

Ok I'll write it again:

The Kasler List specifically mentions that all "DPMS Panthers" are illegal. Whether it says "LR 308" on it or not doesn't matter, this list isn't the Penal Code, the Kasler List is. If it says both "DPMS" and "Panther" on it, it is illegal. I don't know how to make it more clear, anything that has the words "DPMS" and "Panther" written on it are clearly banned by Kasler.

Read the second page, Appendix B: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

oh ****! My laptop is banned now!

[69Mach1]

Pictures of the side of the DPMS LR 308 show the words "Panther". That is a mistake (or there is one model with just LR 308 only on it) that the LR 308 is on the "Offlist" list. A moderator should remove it since Xeno no longer posts on Calguns. But please don't delete this post. It links us all of the way back to the beginning of the OLL revolution.
http://media.midwayusa.com/highres/548484.jpg

[Technowizard]

DPMS is not properly listed. As mentioned above, the list states "DPMS: Panther - All." According to the Harrott decision, to be banned the list must specificly list the make & model. The list does not list the model types... it only states "Panther" which is actually part of the name of the company, and not a model number such as A-15 or LR-308. The term "all" directly goes against the Harrott ruling of being specific. All can only be used to cover minor model variations, such as Olympus PCR models.

Example, just as somebody joked about their laptop above, what if DPMS Panther Arms made a bolt action featureless .22lr rifle? By the above definition it would still be an assualt rifle.

[Safonator]

so where is the most current list?

[Acorn556]

So does this mean a DPMS A-15 is CA legal?

[Can'thavenuthingood]

Is this list ready for General Consumption?

Any caveats?

Vick

[bohoki]

So does this mean a DPMS A-15 is CA legal?

i have heard it is even though mine is a registered AW

[Sick Boy]

Good info for my noob self.

[californiaars4ever]

My question is. Now that Bushmaster took over the Magpul Masada, dose that mean it's a NO! for us here in California???

[Josh3239]

If it is stamped Bushmaster XM15 it is. Since that is the only Bushmaster on the list.

[trykp]

Are Del-Ton lowers off list??? I know that they personally don't ship to CA but i dont know if its because they don't want to bother with the hassle.

thanks

[Ding126]

Add:

Arizona Armory
SI defence ( Sonju )
Ruger
Firebird Precision
Iron Ridge

[bwiese]

Are Del-Ton lowers off list??? I know that they personally don't ship to CA but i dont know if its because they don't want to bother with the hassle.

thanks

DelTon is off-list.

All you have to do is look at this list, 11 CCR 5499:


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf

You can trust this DOJ document as it's actual law - unlike the AWIG (Assault Weapons ID Guide), which is wrong/outdated and referred to by many folks as the "DOJ's Coloring Book".

[jeep7081]

New here. I am sure the question has been asked. Sorry about that. I am from California. I found this web site, then I also found someone posting they made an AR15. I did some reading and found that not all parts are easy to get?

Here is the blog I found
http://blog.riflegear.com/articles/building-a-california--legal-ar-15-rifle.aspx

Can someone clarify? :)

Thanks