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View Full Version : Best 1-4x Variable Scope For Tactical Use


dart368
09-19-2010, 6:48 AM
I have a Trijicon Accupoint TR-22 I believe. Two things I don't like about it is that it has a post instead of lines or mil-dots for yardage beyond it's zero and two, it is a 1.25-4x instead of a true 1x-4x.

What would be a good optic for tactical use with mil-dot or lines for longer shot off-sets say to 300 yards that is variable from 1x-4x?

Thanks.

bombadillo
09-19-2010, 7:09 AM
Leupold MR-T, Nightforce 1-4, Vortex PST 1-4x24, Millet DMS, USO 1.5-6, S&B 1.1-4 line (ridiculously expensive) Premier reticles 1.1-8 (Also really $$$)

I really like the Leupold MR-T for the money. Around 800 or so and you can get a great scope with awesome glass.

gose
09-19-2010, 7:25 AM
Leupold MR-T, Nightforce 1-4, Vortex PST 1-4x24, Millet DMS, USO 1.5-6, S&B 1.1-4 line (ridiculously expensive) Premier reticles 1.1-8 (Also really $$$)

I really like the Leupold MR-T for the money. Around 800 or so and you can get a great scope with awesome glass.

If by "tactical" the OP means "real use" and not dressing up at Chabot, the only ones I'd trust are probably:
MRT, NFS 1-4, USO SN-4, S&B 1.1-4, eotech& aimpoint with magnifier, Trijicon TR24.

I do not trust the PST or the DMS, (or the Meopta K-Dot, which is an excellent range scope), enough for anything but match and range use.
The Premier V8 looks nice, but it probably wont be out this year.

bombadillo
09-19-2010, 7:28 AM
Yeah, I just kind of threw them out in a mixed group. If you are serious about shooting and really want a top dollar scope, the vortex and millet aren't by any means the best but if its a starter rifle or just want to try a scope out to get into things, go for the vortex between the two. I really like the Leupold and Nightforce.

dart368
09-19-2010, 8:18 AM
It definately has to be a "Known" name brand scope with a good reputation and yes, for "Real Life" use in a possibly life and death situation. Thanks for the advice so far. Anything else you guys can think of?

k1dude
09-19-2010, 9:52 AM
Leupold MR-T, Nightforce 1-4, Vortex PST 1-4x24, Millet DMS, USO 1.5-6, S&B 1.1-4 line (ridiculously expensive) Premier reticles 1.1-8 (Also really $$$)

I really like the Leupold MR-T for the money. Around 800 or so and you can get a great scope with awesome glass.

S&B now has a true 1 - 8 which is .1 better than Premier's offering. The only problem I have other than the ridiculous price, is the 1 setting has parallax set to 25 yards. I wish it were parallax free.

Not that I can afford any of these fancy optics.

Maestro Pistolero
09-19-2010, 10:33 AM
An excellent value is the IOR M2 4X. It's illuminated, it's a built like a tank, and it has the best glass you will ever look through. It's a BDC scope for either 5.56 or .308. The CQB reticle rocks.

k1dude
09-19-2010, 10:37 AM
An excellent value is the IOR M2 4X. It's illuminated, it's a built like a tank, and it has the best glass you will ever look through. It's a BDC scope for either 5.56 or .308. The CQB reticle rocks.

I don't believe the IOR is a 1-4 variable though. The OP wants a variable.

dart368
09-19-2010, 1:16 PM
yes, a variable would be optimal. 1x for close encounters and 4x to reach out and touch someone. Course, an 8x would be like...WOW! :-)

HighLander51
09-19-2010, 6:49 PM
Taran Butler uses the Trijicon Accupoint TR-22, so do I. It takes a little time to get used to, but it works really well.

dart368
09-19-2010, 7:05 PM
Taran Butler uses the Trijicon Accupoint TR-22, so do I. It takes a little time to get used to, but it works really well.

Well, I mounted it and shot it today with my M4 but I could only go to a 25 yard indoor range. I will give it a shot at 50 yards next Friday. How do you adjust for longer range shots for 100, 150, 200 or 300 yards? Is there a trick to it like 1/3 of the sight picture over the target...1/2 of the post under the target at 200 yards...etc.? I want it zeroed at 50 yards so for 25 yards, I was holding it over about 1/4 of the post. Am I way off? My buddies with there "Acogs" have the lines so it makes it easier but I like it that up close, I have a clearer sight picture, almost like an Aimpoint. Thanks for any help you can give me.

HighLander51
09-20-2010, 11:46 AM
Zero preference depends on the size of the window you want, bullet weight and velocity, barrel length, and sight axis height above bore axis. I use a 10” window, 55 grains going 3,250fps, 18” barrel and 2.5” offset. This is a zero at 34 and 300 yards, but gives a 10” window between 0 and 350 yards (for shooting 10” plates). Get it close at 34 yards, then go to 300 yards keeping in mind it could be ‘half clicked’ at 300, ie, you will not notice it up close, but a half click at distance is several inches. Make up a picture that shows sight picture at the different distances so you know what it should look like without any reference marks.

Omega13device
09-20-2010, 12:38 PM
For "real life" use an Aimpoint is a lot simpler. I can't imagine a scenario where I'm defending myself from someone 300 yards away, especially in an urban area. At that distance I'd rather they don't know I exist. Scenarios with bad guys close in are a lot more likely and that's where the Aimpoint has it's biggest advantage over a magnified scope. Or EoTech if that's your flavor.

ETA: I should add that whatever optic you end up choosing, a zero with a relatively flat trajectory will minimize the need for big holdovers. For example with a 50-yard zero you'll be on at 50 and 200 and within 2" of point-of-aim from 10-225 yards.

dart368
09-20-2010, 9:49 PM
Excellent advice from both of you and I like the pic/visual...thanks.

faterikcartman
09-21-2010, 6:57 PM
Schmidt und Bender Short Dot?

ExtremeX
09-26-2010, 5:44 PM
Ive been looking for a good 1-4x scope for my AR.

I love scopes, but my 3-9x 40 scope is often too large for my AR when I am not shooting from a bench.

I came across this one... main reason I like it is because of the BDC reticle.

Xtreme Tactical Scope
XTR-14 1X-4X-24mm

http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrtactical1.html

Anyone have any experience with this scope. Still pretty expencive when compared to some of the other options. Still cheaper than NF.

9mmepiphany
09-26-2010, 6:09 PM
Schmidt und Bender Short Dot?

I've looked through a bunch of scope and the Short Dot is definitely the class of the field.

It took an Electro-Optic engineer to explain and demonstrate it to me, but here is actually a measurable quality difference if you really want the best

tzahoy
09-26-2010, 6:50 PM
I've got something a little different. It's the Meopta K-dot. The glass is absolutely beautiful, definitely the sharpest scope I've ever owned. I looked at the Trijicon and many others, but it really came down to the Trijicon and Meopta for me. The reasons I chose the Meopta are I liked the reticle better, and because it runs on batteries.

Some people think batteries are a disadvantage, and they have a point. My thinking is that I tend to buy top quality stuff and own it for a long time. I have one of the first Aimpoints form the early 80's and it still functions flawlessly. I also have a Wilson with tritium sights that are long since dead. I haven't seen any info on changing tritium vials in the Trijicon scopes, but I know this, it's nowhere near as easy as changing a battery!

Anyway, the Meopta is top notch in all regards. The reticle is not first focal plane so it does not change size as you change magnification in the scope. Again I consider this a bonus as I don't want a bigger reticle with higher magnification. It looks to be about a 1-1/2 minute dot, which is fine, and any long distance ranging I will only do at the highest magnification anyway.

The quality is absolutely top notch, the adjustments repeat beautifully, and the clicks are precise. The magnification rings is also very smooth and relatively easy to turn. Check one out, it's a very nice scope.

va_dinger
09-26-2010, 9:28 PM
I'd have to say the Schmidt & Bender Short Dot is the "Best" no question about it, but it cost you an arm and a leg.

Stringer
09-27-2010, 7:50 PM
I've got something a little different. It's the Meopta K-dot. The glass is absolutely beautiful, definitely the sharpest scope I've ever owned. I looked at the Trijicon and many others, but it really came down to the Trijicon and Meopta for me. The reasons I chose the Meopta are I liked the reticle better, and because it runs on batteries.

Some people think batteries are a disadvantage, and they have a point. My thinking is that I tend to buy top quality stuff and own it for a long time. I have one of the first Aimpoints form the early 80's and it still functions flawlessly. I also have a Wilson with tritium sights that are long since dead. I haven't seen any info on changing tritium vials in the Trijicon scopes, but I know this, it's nowhere near as easy as changing a battery!

Anyway, the Meopta is top notch in all regards. The reticle is not first focal plane so it does not change size as you change magnification in the scope. Again I consider this a bonus as I don't want a bigger reticle with higher magnification. It looks to be about a 1-1/2 minute dot, which is fine, and any long distance ranging I will only do at the highest magnification anyway.

The quality is absolutely top notch, the adjustments repeat beautifully, and the clicks are precise. The magnification rings is also very smooth and relatively easy to turn. Check one out, it's a very nice scope.

:iagree:

Dlshaw
09-27-2010, 8:09 PM
I really like the Specter DR from Elcan, I was introduced to this optic by a few Seals from Dev Group when they were using one of our training facilities in Chesapeake VA. They swore by the sight. I never got to put rounds down range with it but borrowed an M4 for an hour or so to pass around show folks the simplicity of it and how by the flip of a switch it changes magnification. I was very impressed.
An Eotech with pivot mounted magnifier might be something to look into as well. The Eotech with BDC and magnifier is my first choice personally.

Daniel

gose
09-27-2010, 8:55 PM
I've got something a little different. It's the Meopta K-dot. The glass is absolutely beautiful, definitely the sharpest scope I've ever owned. I looked at the Trijicon and many others, but it really came down to the Trijicon and Meopta for me. The reasons I chose the Meopta are I liked the reticle better, and because it runs on batteries.

Some people think batteries are a disadvantage, and they have a point. My thinking is that I tend to buy top quality stuff and own it for a long time. I have one of the first Aimpoints form the early 80's and it still functions flawlessly. I also have a Wilson with tritium sights that are long since dead. I haven't seen any info on changing tritium vials in the Trijicon scopes, but I know this, it's nowhere near as easy as changing a battery!
Anyway, the Meopta is top notch in all regards. The reticle is not first focal plane so it does not change size as you change magnification in the scope. Again I consider this a bonus as I don't want a bigger reticle with higher magnification. It looks to be about a 1-1/2 minute dot, which is fine, and any long distance ranging I will only do at the highest magnification anyway.
The quality is absolutely top notch, the adjustments repeat beautifully, and the clicks are precise. The magnification rings is also very smooth and relatively easy to turn. Check one out, it's a very nice scope.

The Meopta is a very nice scope for range use. For anything serious I'd want to use something I can trust a bit more.
Dont get me wrong, I love my Meoptas (I have three K-dots) and for 3-gunning with targets from 0-350 y, it's def one of the best. However, I bought my first K-dot ~4 years ago and I'm about to send in my third repair this week and I know I'm not the only one going through scopes.

Do I think it's the best match scope out there for me, yes (or I'd buy something else). Would I want to trust my life on it, no.

tzahoy
09-27-2010, 9:37 PM
Good feedback Gose, I hope I don't end up having to send mine back, I hate it when stuff breaks!

What has broken?

gose
09-27-2010, 10:24 PM
Good feedback Gose, I hope I don't end up having to send mine back, I hate it when stuff breaks!
What has broken?

On the first one the magnification ring (or something inside the scope) broke. It was out of focus and you couldnt change magnification.

On the second one the illumination died.

The third now has inadequate illumination. It works, but it's nowhere near as bright as my other two.

On the bright side, Meoptas CS has been excellent. They're quick to reply, get back with an update as well as fixing the issue (they repaired the first scope and gave me a new one the second time).

Without Meopta's CS, I probably would be shooting shortdots...

OutlawDon
09-27-2010, 10:51 PM
Here's a 1-6x scope to consider...

http://www.ellisoptics.com/TemplateOmega.aspx

http://www.ellisoptics.com/Image/1-6_photo.jpg

Mute
09-28-2010, 7:46 AM
I looked at both the Premier and S&B 1-8 scope last year at SHOT and I personally, liked the Premier much more than the S&B.

CSTactical
09-29-2010, 10:09 AM
My favorite is the Elcan SpecterDR. Here's a thread with more info...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4268131#post4268131

CSTactical
09-29-2010, 12:24 PM
By the way I recommend staying a way form ellisoptics. I saw one and while I was turning the turret the knob broke off in my hand.

Mike @ CST

dart368
10-03-2010, 6:48 AM
thanks for all the advice guys...it would be great if we could compile a list of optics that have a reputation for their quality and durability. I have to be honest, before today, if someone said they had a "Nightforce" optic for sale for $700, I would laugh at them. A list would be great:

Trijicon,
Leupold
Nightforce

tomd1584
10-03-2010, 10:12 AM
thanks for all the advice guys...it would be great if we could compile a list of optics that have a reputation for their quality and durability. I have to be honest, before today, if someone said they had a "Nightforce" optic for sale for $700, I would laugh at them. A list would be great:

Trijicon,
Leupold
Nightforce


1-4x variable optic options (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104)

dart368
12-05-2010, 9:05 AM
Thanks for all the information guys. :-)

patriot_man
12-05-2010, 11:08 AM
S&B is #1 on my list no doubt.

uscbigdawg
12-05-2010, 1:09 PM
NF 2.5-10x. I have this on my LR-308 and it does EVERYTHING right.

Rich

rero360
12-05-2010, 3:14 PM
My vote is with the USO 1-4x, I'm in the process of designing a reticle with them that would be the best of both worlds, fast up close target aquisition and have the ability for accurate aimed fire out to 6 or 8 hundred yards (its still in the beginning phase) I'm hoping to get the design figured out and built so I can test it and use the scope on my next deployment.

Ak707
12-05-2010, 7:35 PM
Im in the same boat..im looking for an optic i can use for quick aiming at short distances and somthing i can zoom in for mid range. I also want it to be short and compact.
I just bought my first AR (sig 516) and ill pretty much just be messing around shootin it when i go camping and maybe a little range shooting here and there..

AT first i was just gonna buy an aimpoint but i really want to be able to have a zoom option(not interested in adding the 3x aimpoint zoom)
THEN my buddy let me borrow his Bushnell Holo sight, im really diggin the recticle and the ability to pick up targets at close range, so now im leaning more towards a EoTech than just a dot the aimpont offers..
BUT neither offers a zoom option without adding their 3x zoom.
SO NOW im really considering a BURRIS AR-332 but its a set 3x zoom and im concerned it will be a little difficult to pick up targets quickly at close range..Anyone have any experience using one..? Pros n Cons..?

In the perfect world id have a ton of money and just buy a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T and a Elcan SpecterDR and play with both of them..

Im really in a bind here i cant decide lol

Randee
12-06-2010, 8:07 AM
A lot of good info in here, I was looking at the Leatherwood CMR

To the more experienced/senior (no offense intended) members here, any pros or con to it? Obviously it wont match up to lets say the Schmidt and Bender but what about to the other popular choices?

Omega13device
12-06-2010, 10:15 AM
Im in the same boat..im looking for an optic i can use for quick aiming at short distances and somthing i can zoom in for mid range. I also want it to be short and compact.
I just bought my first AR (sig 516) and ill pretty much just be messing around shootin it when i go camping and maybe a little range shooting here and there..

AT first i was just gonna buy an aimpoint but i really want to be able to have a zoom option(not interested in adding the 3x aimpoint zoom)
THEN my buddy let me borrow his Bushnell Holo sight, im really diggin the recticle and the ability to pick up targets at close range, so now im leaning more towards a EoTech than just a dot the aimpont offers..
BUT neither offers a zoom option without adding their 3x zoom.
SO NOW im really considering a BURRIS AR-332 but its a set 3x zoom and im concerned it will be a little difficult to pick up targets quickly at close range..Anyone have any experience using one..? Pros n Cons..?

In the perfect world id have a ton of money and just buy a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T and a Elcan SpecterDR and play with both of them..

Im really in a bind here i cant decide lol
Asking here can give you some guidance on where to start but the reality of optics selection is that you cannot know what works for you until you try it. Buying and selling several until you find what you like is par for the course.

A lot of good info in here, I was looking at the Leatherwood CMR

To the more experienced/senior (no offense intended) members here, any pros or con to it? Obviously it wont match up to lets say the Schmidt and Bender but what about to the other popular choices?
It's hard to state the pros and cons without knowing what you're going to use it for.

Randee
12-06-2010, 11:01 AM
My main purpose is simply that I want something I can get a little bit more range out of, I essentially have an SPR style AR15, I would like to be able to hit the steel out to 3 or 400 yards at Angeles but also be able to have something in the event someone decides to break in that I can run

In all honestly I don't want to be some crazy 1000yd tack driver but I want something with comprimise if that makes any sense

I guess what I really want to know is whether the CMR is a quality optic and any thoughts on it

Omega13device
12-06-2010, 1:51 PM
It would be fine for plinking at the range out to those distances.

For home defense, you could make it work with a lot of practice. It's going to be slower and generally harder to use than an Aimpoint under stress because the eye relief is limited and you have to align your eye with the scope. An Aimpoint doesn't have these limitations and has the advantage of 5-year battery life with the unit left on, so you just leave it on at all times.

If I were limited to one general-purpose upper I'd have an Aimpoint and a 1-4x scope, both in LaRue mounts, and the Aimpoint would stay on most of the time.

bombadillo
12-06-2010, 1:57 PM
My main purpose is simply that I want something I can get a little bit more range out of, I essentially have an SPR style AR15, I would like to be able to hit the steel out to 3 or 400 yards at Angeles but also be able to have something in the event someone decides to break in that I can run

In all honestly I don't want to be some crazy 1000yd tack driver but I want something with comprimise if that makes any sense

I guess what I really want to know is whether the CMR is a quality optic and any thoughts on it

From reading reviews, I almost bought one before I got my Mark AR, and they really look promising. The CMR is supposed to have really decent glass for the money, and their ranging system isn't bad either. I would drop my money there without a doubt, and if I were to do it again, I would stay with a little higher magnification. At 300-400 yards, I don't like the 1-4 or 3-9 scopes, I got a 4-12x40 and really like it at all ranges so far. Just strictly a preference, but I can see so much better with the higher magnification personally. The 1-4 MKIV that I used was great glass, but definitely more difficult at 200 and up yards.

tacticalcity
12-06-2010, 2:18 PM
With an SPR you can get away with a much higher magnification scope, it would be much more enjoyable to use at 200+ yards. It is not that you can't get good hits with a 1-4, it is just that you won't know about it unless somebody with a spotting scope tells you so.

An SPR is by it's very nature is something of a range whore. It is meant to reach out and touch someone more so than your standard military type AR. It is not meant for knocking down doors.

A 3.5-10x40 or even something more powerful would not be awkward on an SPR.

Then again, I guess that depends on how you define SPR. I've seen guys call a standard M4 an SPR just because they put a scope on it. So not everybody is on the same page with how they use their terms.

For example, a lot of the guys who hear "general purpose" are thinking CQB. Which is not really what comes to my mind when I think general purpose. Just like I do not think of an SPR as a "general purpose" rifle. I tend to think more plinking when I hear "general purpose". A general purpose AR wouldn't really need optics by my definition...so it is all in how you interpret the terms you are using.

This is what I think of when I hear the term SPR...

1) 18" Stainless Steel Barrel with 1-8 or 1-7 twist rate to handle match grade ammo.
2) Rifle length gas tube with low profile or flip-up sight.
3) Rifle length free floating handguards (railed or non-railed)
4) Flat Top Upper
5) Match grade trigger

Which rules out banging down doors and begs for a nice powerful scope and a bench rest in the civilian world. It is not something an entire team would be equiped with in the military. They are not used for banging down doors. They are perimiter security and designated marksman type use.

Perhaps you mean Recon or Recce rifle?

1) 16" Stainless Steel Barrel with 1-8 or 1-7 twist rate to handle match grade ammo.
2) Carbine length or Mid-length gas tube with low profile gas block to fit under the handguard
3) Rifle length free floating railed handguards
4) Flat Top Upper
5) Match grade trigger or Military Grade Trigger

Which is where you see a lot of 1-4 scopes. It is not something an entire team would be equiped with. It is used pretty much the same way the SPR is used, except in a pinch it still works for CQB.

Just my $0.02.

Randee
12-06-2010, 2:22 PM
It would be fine for plinking at the range out to those distances.

For home defense, you could make it work with a lot of practice. It's going to be slower and generally harder to use than an Aimpoint under stress because the eye relief is limited and you have to align your eye with the scope. An Aimpoint doesn't have these limitations and has the advantage of 5-year battery life with the unit left on, so you just leave it on at all times.

If I were limited to one general-purpose upper I'd have an Aimpoint and a 1-4x scope, both in LaRue mounts, and the Aimpoint would stay on most of the time.

From reading reviews, I almost bought one before I got my Mark AR, and they really look promising. The CMR is supposed to have really decent glass for the money, and their ranging system isn't bad either. I would drop my money there without a doubt, and if I were to do it again, I would stay with a little higher magnification. At 300-400 yards, I don't like the 1-4 or 3-9 scopes, I got a 4-12x40 and really like it at all ranges so far. Just strictly a preference, but I can see so much better with the higher magnification personally. The 1-4 MKIV that I used was great glass, but definitely more difficult at 200 and up yards.

Thank you for the input guys!

The "scout" optic concept is still new to me, out of curiousity what is the max effective range on these style optics, I would assume the larger objective models such as 28mm or 30mm would have an advantage, in either event definitely some good info on here!

JaeOne3345
12-06-2010, 4:58 PM
Thank you for the input guys!

The "scout" optic concept is still new to me, out of curiousity what is the max effective range on these style optics, I would assume the larger objective models such as 28mm or 30mm would have an advantage, in either event definitely some good info on here!

Randee, you know who...

I think you should state how much you are trying to spend as well.

Have you looked into the Burris Tac30 1-4x from Midway? It is getting good reviews on brianenos.com. I haven't used it but people seem to like it a lot.

Perhaps a higher power scope with a red dot on an offset mount? Just depends what you wanna do.

Look around at snipershide or the brianenos forums.

Randee
12-06-2010, 7:22 PM
Randee, you know who...

I think you should state how much you are trying to spend as well.

Have you looked into the Burris Tac30 1-4x from Midway? It is getting good reviews on brianenos.com. I haven't used it but people seem to like it a lot.

Perhaps a higher power scope with a red dot on an offset mount? Just depends what you wanna do.

Look around at snipershide or the brianenos forums.

lol, I thought you were gonna preface this one with a...

"hey guys, NutnFancy here"

The burris is one that I am looking at but to be honest I am thinking a bit more about running something with more serious magnification and just running a doctor site off the side, the debate for me know is whether I want to go with a fixed 10 or go with a 3.5 to X

Ive seen some very nice Leupold Mk4's lurking around so Im keeping my eye on those right now, but I am still up in the air with everything

Crusader
12-07-2010, 7:19 AM
We offer a high end close quarters optic called the SN-4 line. In that line we have two scopes, a 1-4x, and a 1.5-6x. We can build the scope to whatever you want, including choices of reticles, knob configuration, and anodizing finish.

Check us out at USOptics.com, but admittedly our site is under construction so if you have questions, give us a call at 714-582-1956

gose
12-07-2010, 7:30 AM
We offer a high end close quarters optic called the SN-4 line. In that line we have two scopes, a 1-4x, and a 1.5-6x. We can build the scope to whatever you want, including choices of reticles, knob configuration, and anodizing finish.
Check us out at USOptics.com, but admittedly our site is under construction so if you have questions, give us a call at 714-582-1956

The SN-4 with the Lund reticle would be one of my top choices, if it only had a tad better illumination.
For people not as picky as me about daytime illumination, it's def worth a look.

Crusader
12-07-2010, 8:14 AM
Honestly that is the one thing I would change about all of our scopes. The nice thing about our Rheostat illumination is that the reticle is easy to see in all but the deepest shadows and at night. In those two circumstances, the Rheostat really shines bright.

dart368
12-08-2010, 9:24 AM
Honestly that is the one thing I would change about all of our scopes. The nice thing about our Rheostat illumination is that the reticle is easy to see in all but the deepest shadows and at night. In those two circumstances, the Rheostat really shines bright.

WOW...didn't think my post would take off like this. Thank you all for your replies. For now, I think I am happy with my Trijicon Accupoint except for the 1.5-4 part as I wish it was a one power at the lowest setting but hey, 1.5 isn't too bad. It seems to be the best bang for the buck (Pardon the pun).

Crusader, your optics sound interesting. It would be nice to find a scope with mil-dots for hold offs of various distances that is 1-6 or so variable. Just a thought.

tacticalcity
12-08-2010, 9:59 AM
We offer a high end close quarters optic called the SN-4 line. In that line we have two scopes, a 1-4x, and a 1.5-6x. We can build the scope to whatever you want, including choices of reticles, knob configuration, and anodizing finish.

Check us out at USOptics.com, but admittedly our site is under construction so if you have questions, give us a call at 714-582-1956

U.S. Optics makes A-M-A-Z-I-N-G products. Top of the line stuff.

TMC
12-08-2010, 10:11 AM
dart368 the TR-21 you have right now is a very good scope for match use, a couple of the top 3-gunners in the county used them until the TR-24 came out and they both switched to it. I use a TR-21 and have no problem with the 1.25x for the close stuff because you're shooting with both eyes open anyway. I have the triangle reticle and a 200 yard zero which is pretty much a dead on hold out to 200 and on a flash target at 300 I hold at the top. Simple, which is always faster in compitition.

Like most things in shooting is not the gear as much as the time you put into knowning your gear and practcing with it.

Now if it "all comes down" the rifle I'll take with me has an ACOG TA-11 on it.

Mute
12-08-2010, 11:22 AM
WOW...didn't think my post would take off like this. Thank you all for your replies. For now, I think I am happy with my Trijicon Accupoint except for the 1.5-4 part as I wish it was a one power at the lowest setting but hey, 1.5 isn't too bad. It seems to be the best bang for the buck (Pardon the pun).

Crusader, your optics sound interesting. It would be nice to find a scope with mil-dots for hold offs of various distances that is 1-6 or so variable. Just a thought.

The SN4 1.5-6 I saw at Shot Show back in January was an excellent scope. Relatively light but sturdy. Good eye relief and exit pupil also. As to mildots, you do realize this scope has an option for a mil based reticle (JNG Mil) right? Check it out. It's a great reticle.

Crusader
12-08-2010, 11:37 AM
WOW...didn't think my post would take off like this. Thank you all for your replies. For now, I think I am happy with my Trijicon Accupoint except for the 1.5-4 part as I wish it was a one power at the lowest setting but hey, 1.5 isn't too bad. It seems to be the best bang for the buck (Pardon the pun).

Crusader, your optics sound interesting. It would be nice to find a scope with mil-dots for hold offs of various distances that is 1-6 or so variable. Just a thought.

We do offer a reticle in mil dot configuration. We also offer a circle-chevron reticle that, in the lower left hand portion of the field of view, has rectangles numbered 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 (progressively getting smaller as the number goes up). Those rectangles are the size of the average male torso at those distances... 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards. So, put the rectangle over the target's torso, and that's his approximate range.

CSTactical
12-08-2010, 1:38 PM
They USO are made very robust and are very nice...

Mike @ CST

CSTactical
12-08-2010, 1:40 PM
Also there is the Vortex 1-4x we have been testing out so for so good.
QQN-1xsj9j8

Mike @ CST

Secret
12-09-2010, 10:13 PM
tag

ronas
12-10-2010, 3:04 AM
tr24G. For me great to 100 yards. Green triangle is like using iron sights except I can green triangle. At 1 or 2 power not much of learning curve to use with both eyes open.

dart368
12-10-2010, 7:20 AM
Okay, here is a twist on this subject. What brands or models should we stay away from?

tacticalcity
12-10-2010, 9:17 AM
Personally I would stay away from Counter Sniper Optics. Because people can sue you for bad mouthing their products, and I would not it put it passed them, I will not go into detail. But if you do a google search you will see why I came to that conclusion. They are the only major brand making a "tactical scope" that makes me nervious.

Chinese scopes off ebay are hit and miss. All the Vector Optics cheap Chinese scopes I tried held zero on a flat range and have done surprisingly well for the price but I would not drop into the sandbox with them. On the opposite end of the spectrum the knockoff Aimpoints I've seen people get did not hold zero and were a complete waste of money. None are as good as the Trijicon you already have, so there would be no need for you to go there.

I've heard great things about Super Sniper Scopes from SWFA as far as entry level get a little more than you pay for scopes. They hold their value. But they are no where near as nice as the Trijicon you already have.

I've also heard good things about the Millet DMS but again it is not as good as what you have.

dart368
12-11-2010, 5:40 AM
thanks for the info

RECCE556
12-11-2010, 11:55 AM
Without a doubt, either the S&B Short Dot or the Elcan Specter DR. I'm fortunate enough to both and the best feature of both optics is that they have a DAYTIME usable RED DOT so you can use them like a Aimpoint. As good as USO's are, the SN-4 has worthless daytime illumination (as do most 1-4x+ optics). Both the Elcan and S&B are also very stout. The locking knobs on the S&B are a great feature (you pull up on the knobs to adjust W or E)...the Elcan doesn't really need this feature due to how you adjust them. The FOV on both the DR and Short Dot is great. The Short Dot has better eye relief but both are better than most Trijicons so if you're OK with say the TA01's eye relief, then the DR will be an improvement and the Short Dot will be a huge improvement.

Speaking of the Elcan, I've had several Elcans (bought and sold at various times) and I've taken every single one of them through at least one 3-day carbine course. Now while a carbine course is nowhere near as HSLD as what the SOCOM guys do, I've never had one go out of adjustment nor have I had a POA/POI shift (at least not enough for me to notice).

The Trijicon TR-24 is also a nice lower cost QUALITY 1-4x optic and they do offer a crosshair-dot reticle but they don't offer it in red (just yellow and green which I find don't show up as well as red).

I also respectfully disagree with the "1x only" optic guys. While you may not be engaging 300+ yard targets, in a SHTF situation, it can NEVER hurt to have magnified optics when you also have a 1x setting.

hnoppenberger
12-11-2010, 2:15 PM
the trijicon 1-4 is hard to beat, cheaper than the other high ends of that type and great optics. I'd trade up, its much better than the old 1.25 you're using

dart368
12-11-2010, 8:22 PM
the trijicon 1-4 is hard to beat, cheaper than the other high ends of that type and great optics. I'd trade up, its much better than the old 1.25 you're using

Sounds good, let's trade! :D

Husker16
12-12-2010, 6:15 AM
I was looking at an Acog for my M4, not much discussion about that type here though? I know the USMC uses the ACOG. Any opinions here?

WDE91
12-12-2010, 7:04 AM
If you have $1500 go for it
they are nice but I think there are plenty of other good options for the average joe much cheaper

dart368
12-12-2010, 8:19 AM
I was looking at an Acog for my M4, not much discussion about that type here though? I know the USMC uses the ACOG. Any opinions here?

Here is one opinion from a USMC reserve who is also on their rifle competition team and an avid 3 gun competitor(Not me, my co-worker):

My buddy and I had this discussion as most of our co-workers are going to the ACOG. He says, they are cool looking, compact and tough. And since the USMC uses them, they MUST be good...right? Well, yes, they are good. But for the same amount of money, you can get something with the same quality or better that is adjustable. This gives you more flexibility in regards to shooting at closer distances or targets that are further away. Course, you can always add a co-witness optic/sight but again, more money. I like the idea of having one optic that can do it all so all I have to worry about is hold offs. Just my...er, our opinion though.

ronas
12-12-2010, 10:36 AM
I know the USMC uses the ACOG. Any opinions here?

They do not have a diopter adjustment. That may or not be a problem. If you need a diopter adjuster like I do it can be a big problem.

Crusader
12-12-2010, 6:10 PM
I was looking at an Acog for my M4, not much discussion about that type here though? I know the USMC uses the ACOG. Any opinions here?

If an ACOG is in your price range, I'll suggest one of our scopes for you. For the same price as an ACOG (and sometimes less depending on the features you want), we offer two scopes in our SN-4 line. One is a 1-4x, the other is a 1.5-6x. Our scopes offer illuminated reticles, adjustable eye pieces, and you can pick and choose the reticle option you want, your knob configuration, etc.

Check us out at usoptics.com, or call us at 714-582-1956 as our website is under construction.


Tim

Mute
12-12-2010, 7:34 PM
I've used ACOGs and I have some experience with the SN-4 line. If I were paying the price of an ACOG and using my rifle in a capacity that is best served by an optic like an ACOG, I'd take the USO scope every time. I find the scope much more versatile and the choice in reticles is a huge advantage.

esskay
12-12-2010, 8:44 PM
The Meopta is a very nice scope for range use. For anything serious I'd want to use something I can trust a bit more.
Dont get me wrong, I love my Meoptas (I have three K-dots) and for 3-gunning with targets from 0-350 y, it's def one of the best. However, I bought my first K-dot ~4 years ago and I'm about to send in my third repair this week and I know I'm not the only one going through scopes.

Do I think it's the best match scope out there for me, yes (or I'd buy something else). Would I want to trust my life on it, no.

(Knock on wood) My Meopta has been very reliable for me ... but like Gose I have it on a 3-gun rifle not a defensive gun. The glass is fantastic, FOV is good, 1X is very clean, and the illuminated reticle is super bright.

However, one other thing to consider that is not immediately apparent until you take it out at night is that the lowest illumination can be much too bright when it is very dark... which could be a real liability for tactical use. I've run it at night with no moon and the illumination at the lowest setting just overpowered everything...

dart368
12-18-2010, 2:07 PM
Esskay...excellent point. I have taken my Eotech out at night and have had to set it at it's lowest setting but it wasn't overpowering. The Accupoint has a built in night sight (Tritium) which gives it an advantage, especially that it doesn't need batteries.

esskay
12-18-2010, 11:26 PM
Esskay...excellent point. I have taken my Eotech out at night and have had to set it at it's lowest setting but it wasn't overpowering. The Accupoint has a built in night sight (Tritium) which gives it an advantage, especially that it doesn't need batteries.

Cool, the Eotechs and Aimpoints I've had seem to work well in basically any lighting conditions -- they can get both dark enough and bright enough.

Love the Accupoints, just a couple things to consider: In some lighting conditions, the fiber/tritium illumination may not be as bright as you would like. e.g. inside home at night with sparse lighting. Or when shooting while situated in a dark position to a target in a brightly lit area.

dart368
12-19-2010, 2:08 PM
Cool, the Eotechs and Aimpoints I've had seem to work well in basically any lighting conditions -- they can get both dark enough and bright enough.

Love the Accupoints, just a couple things to consider: In some lighting conditions, the fiber/tritium illumination may not be as bright as you would like. e.g. inside home at night with sparse lighting. Or when shooting while situated in a dark position to a target in a brightly lit area.

I have found that to be true as well. I thought for a while that my tritium was out on my accupoint when I tried it at night. Another Good point!

reddot556
12-19-2010, 4:07 PM
ya know, some people like em, some don't..but for me the ior pitbull with a cat tail on it has been my favorite..there is a reason you never see them for sale used..people keep em

Hoop
12-19-2010, 5:34 PM
If you have the money get the USO, if not maybe look for a used valdada or wait for the PST and Super Sniper 1-4 both of should be here "soon".

dart368
12-21-2010, 9:56 PM
USO or Nightforce?

RECCE556
12-30-2010, 4:35 PM
USO or Nightforce?
If you're talking about just the 1-4x scopes, I would honestly say it's a coin toss...

gose
12-31-2010, 4:01 PM
If you have the money get the USO, if not maybe look for a used valdada or wait for the PST and Super Sniper 1-4 both of should be here "soon".

Heh, the SuB 1-8 was supposed to be here "soon" more than 6 months ago ;)
The only company worse than optics companies in terms of getting products to market in the estimated time frame is Magpul.

dart368
01-02-2011, 3:25 PM
So, let's say that I have whittled it down to 4 different optics and have $2,000 to spend so price is not really an issue.

IOR Valdada 1.5-8x26 35mm Tactical Illuminated BDC/CQB Reticule

U.S. Optics SN-4 1.5-6x28 30mm

Nightforce 1-4 x 24 NXS 30mm

Trijicon Accupoint TR-24R 1-4x24 30mm

It would be used for 3 gun from 7-300 yard shots and maybe...MAYBE for some CQB work, but it's a big maybe so mostly 3 gun matches. Let me know your thoughts. :seeya:

GeoffLinder
01-02-2011, 3:42 PM
So, let's say that I have whittled it down to 4 different optics and have $2,000 to spend so price is not really an issue.

IOR Valdada 1.5-8x26 35mm Tactical Illuminated BDC/CQB Reticule

U.S. Optics SN-4 1.5-6x28 30mm

Nightforce 1-4 x 24 NXS 30mm

Trijicon Accupoint TR-24R 1-4x24 30mm

It would be used for 3 gun from 7-300 yard shots and maybe...MAYBE for some CQB work, but it's a big maybe so mostly 3 gun matches. Let me know your thoughts. :seeya:

Get one that is a "true" 1x and CQ engagement will be a lot easier. 4x is plenty of mag for steel plates and USPSA paper targets to 350+ meters. Go with the NF or Trijicon or get a USO in 1-4x (SN-4S) instead of 1.5-6x

The BDC is a glitzy option but way over-rated for multi-gun use IMHO. Better to learn your hold-overs and have a clean uncluttered view in the scope IMO.

esskay
01-02-2011, 11:01 PM
Whoa, "price is not really an issue" and "It would be used for 3 gun" ?!

Didn't realize these were your criteria! No question, you've gotta look at the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x with BRT illuminated reticle. 3-gunners are gushing over this optic. You've got the coin, check it out!!
http://www.cstactical.com/Swarovski/OPTICS/Rifle-Scopes/Swarovski/Swarovski-Z6i-1-6x24-BRT-I.html?vmcchk=1

However, SHOT show is just a couple weeks away, so hang on and see what's new. SWFA has a 1-4x coming out, the Vortex PST is just starting to ship.

dart368
01-03-2011, 3:58 AM
Whoa, "price is not really an issue" and "It would be used for 3 gun" ?!

Didn't realize these were your criteria! No question, you've gotta look at the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x with BRT illuminated reticle. 3-gunners are gushing over this optic. You've got the coin, check it out!!
http://www.cstactical.com/Swarovski/OPTICS/Rifle-Scopes/Swarovski/Swarovski-Z6i-1-6x24-BRT-I.html?vmcchk=1

However, SHOT show is just a couple weeks away, so hang on and see what's new. SWFA has a 1-4x coming out, the Vortex PST is just starting to ship.

UNDER $2,000....WOW! Talk about getting what you pay for. This optic should pull the trigger for me if I am putting out that much bank! :43:

thetaxman
01-05-2011, 3:46 PM
Anyone else tried the Leupold CQB (the 1-8x)? Reticle seemed real busy and I've heard a $4k price tag :eek: ?

OutlawDon
01-05-2011, 6:08 PM
Anyone else tried the Leupold CQB (the 1-8x)? Reticle seemed real busy and I've heard a $4k price tag :eek: ?

That $4K price tag is going to keep it away from most people. Way too lofty. There are other choices with not such an absurd and ridiculous pricing.

ElvenSoul
01-05-2011, 6:35 PM
1x4 me want 1x8...will settle for good true 1x6...

gose
01-05-2011, 7:58 PM
Anyone else tried the Leupold CQB (the 1-8x)? Reticle seemed real busy and I've heard a $4k price tag :eek: ?

and pretty much non-existent illumination...

gose
01-06-2011, 8:38 AM
The BDC is a glitzy option but way over-rated for multi-gun use IMHO. Better to learn your hold-overs and have a clean uncluttered view in the scope IMO.

Out to 300y or so, I totally agree with you, but when you're at 400+ yards and have a 10-15mph side wind, that BDC is pretty nice to have...

GeoffLinder
01-06-2011, 8:59 AM
Out to 300y or so, I totally agree with you, but when you're at 400+ yards and have a 10-15mph side wind, that BDC is pretty nice to have...
S'truth, but how often do we really see steel beyond 300-325 yards anyway?

Both RM3G's I have been to have had max steel ranges of 330 yards. Never saw a target beyond 320 yards at any USPSA MG I have been to. Only match I have shot with targets beyond 325 has been the MGM IronMan match. Used a non-BDC scope 1st year I went, no problemo, used a BDC TA-01 ACOG the following year and felt it helped a bit, but could have done it with holdovers easily as there was no wind to speak of.

I do really like the windage stadia though, they were the total schiznit for the shootoffs at the 2005 RM3G when a storm cell moved in and the wind was blowing 20mph plus for the 200 yard rifle steel. Held twice the stadia off the plates and cleaned them with SMK 77's. The army guy using 55gr and an Eotech ran a 30 round mag dry trying to hit the 5 plates on his run ;)

dart368
01-08-2011, 1:39 PM
WOW...you guys are way above my level. Maybe i should just stick to my Accupoint 1.5-4x and get good with my hold overs. It's mounted on an 18 inch free floated heavy barrell with a Miculek compensator. I would think that after reading everyone's comments, it should be just fine for any 3 gun match and for hitting targets out to 300 yards. I was thinking of more power just to be able to see the target better and the "Tactical" use was put in because I was thinking of using it on a CQB M4 for my top secret missions that I go on. :tank: But I have scrubbed that since most shots taken would probably be close range and not more than 50 yards away which I can easily make with either my Eotech or a 1x red dot. So, the Accupoint would be primarilly used for personal target practice or 3 gun matches. I did find that for 100 yards and for 50 yards, it is the same hold point (The top of the triangle on the target) and at 25 yards, the hold off is the bottom of the triangle on the target. At closer distances, it is of course, about 4-6 inches above the target. I have not been able to go to a longer distance range to check for 200 or 300 yards. If anyone has information on hold overs for the Accupoint 1.5-4x I would be interested. Thanks.